Everyone, can you hear us clearly? Okay. Let me start the recording. Okay, Wednesday, May 14, 2025, 3:33 P.M. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to PT Vale Indonesia first quarter 2025 earnings call. My name is Andaru Adi. I will be the moderator of today's event. With me now, we have Rizky Putra, our CFO, Ibu Wahyuni , our Corporate Secretary, and the rest of the other board members also joining online, Pak Abu Ashar, Pak Muhammad Asril, Pak Adriansyah Chaniago , and Pak Luke Mahony . The meeting today will be started with a brief presentation from our management, and then followed up by a Q&A session. During the next session, our deputy will share some key highlights from our company's performance, including operational milestones and achievements, and then updates from our group projects. This is the agenda.
There will be four agendas in this meeting. The first session will be first quarter update, key updates, and then second one will be operational updates. Both parts will be presented by Pak Abu Ashar, our Vice President Director, and then part three, will be group project updates, will be presented by Pak Muhammad Asril, and then last but not least, financial results will be presented by Pak Rizky Putra. Next one is just disclaimer. The following presentation and discussion will be comprised of assumptions and forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties. In addition, all opinions and assumptions constitute our judgment are subject to change without prior notice. Please refer to the following cautionary note and disclaimer. I think without further ado, I will now hand the session to Pak Abu Ashar to begin presentations. Pak Abu, the time is yours.
Thank you, Mas Andaru. Good afternoon. Let me start for the next slide. You may see this in the past, but let me highlight again. This is our one-pager, which is the compass that navigates us through our endeavors and steering us toward our purpose. We exist to improve life and transform the future together. Business for us transcends the boundaries of mere profit-making. It is also about life and this planet. Ensuring that the planet, not only for us, for the current generation, but how to ensure for the future our generations. That is why PT Vale, we stand as significant contributor to global decarbonizations, playing our part in the grand scheme of things. And of course, this is reflecting on our journey of their decarbonizations.
Moreover, we persistently strive to elevate our standard of good mining practices, the GMP, not just in our current operation, but also in our future ventures, including our growth agendas. Of course, we are not just miners, but we are custodian of the Earth, and we are working to ensure a sustainable future. Moving to the next slide. This is the first quarter of our 2025 key updates. For the Q1, was marked by another important milestone, in addition to our nickel matte sales, the nickel matte currently we have. The company commercially sold approx about 80 kt of saprolite ores to domestic buyer. This is the first time. Those transactions signify a more diversified revenue stream and having positive growth prospect for the company's operations.
And secondly, on March 26th, GEM Hong Kong International Co Limited completed its acquisition to PT BNSI and the JVCo for Morowali HPAL , which has resulted in a change of our PT Vale ownership to PT BNSI from 100% to become 49%. And on April 24th, the following appointment of Ibu Febriany Eddy, who has taken a new role as Managing Director of Danantara, you may already know, the company appointed and trusted Bernardus Irmanto as acting President Director. And for the first time, the company also has disclosed its mineral resources date as December 31st of 2024. We will see the slide later. This includes both limonite and saprolite ore, not just from Sorowako Block, but also from Bahodopi Block 2 and 3, Pomalaa, and also Sorowako Outer Area Blocks.
The breadth of our resource base reflects the substantial land bank, which is a key asset in supporting the long-term sustainability and growth our operations. So here to show you the table, our mineral resources. So we are excited to share our mineral resources data as of December 31st, 2024, and this makes PT Vale the largest holder of nickel resources in Indonesia, spread across the different provinces we have in South Sulawesi, Central Sulawesi, Southeast Sulawesi, and showcasing a wealth of potential that is ready for future development. Moving to the next slide, about our BoC and BoD composition. So this present the current composition of our Board of Commissioners and also our Board of Directors, and together, this leadership team reflects the governance structure and the strategic direction of the company.
Each member brings a diverse set of skill and industry experiences that are instrumental in guiding our operations and ensuring compliance, and also the driving the long-term value creation. Their collective expertise support or boost decision-making and reinforce our commitment to transparency, accountability, and as well the sustainable growth. The next slide is talking about our environmental KPIs. Up to March 2025, we successfully managed our environmental KPIs. You can see here, particularly maintaining GHG and SO2 emission intensities are below our set target. For reclamations, as of March 2025, still below our internal plan, but in addition to reclamation in our post-mining area, we also conducted a watershed rehabilitation, we call DAS rehabilitations, outside of our company IUPK areas, and aiming to restore, maintain, and improve watershed function for carbon sequestrations. We also focusing on achieving the second Gold PROPER.
You know, the first time we have a Gold PROPER last year, for the performance last year. After having fourth time of Green PROPER, now we have Gold PROPER for the first time. It is our opportunity to maintain the Gold PROPER for the next period. Those highlight our commitment to environmental harmony and sustainable practices. Now we will move to the second agenda, which is operational update. Okay, so operational update, I will start from the safety update. This is showing our safety performance. During the first quarter, the company managed to maintain no lost- time injury. Despite that we have increased the total recordable injury frequency rate, we can see here up to 0.69, but along the years, with the increased number of working hours and implementing our safety programs, we could lowering the injury rate.
So we starting with the first this year, the program we have National K3 Month, normally we call Bulan K3, with various activity to improve safety, health, discipline, and the teamwork across our employees, contractor, and the communities. So we are using this a good momentum to engage the employee's family and the contractor families, as they are part of the communities, to promote the safety behavior, not only in the workplaces, but also in the community. So those are the program that we are confident to continue to improving our safety. Moving to the next slide. This is our production profile. So in the first quarter, our production volume about 8% and 6% lower compared to the production volume realized in the fourth quarter and the first quarter last year.
This is mainly due to the unplanned shutdown for one of our production line, furnace number one, due to issue in the electro system. So with this situation, we took the opportunity to accelerate our maintenance schedule from the third quarter, that's the window, moving to the first quarter. So we do not need to have another shutdown as we have done the shutdown, and this is allowing us to better align our operation in the upcoming quarters. So with this strategy remain, our production committed to 71,234 annual for this year. I think this is the last slide I have, and for the next slides, will be presented to Pak Asril.
Thank you, Pak Abu. Good afternoon, everyone. Just to refresh everyone, that the company is currently having four development projects in the pipeline that you can see into the slides. First is Morowali project, is the first project to build mine 100% owned by PT Vale, and we partnered with GEM to build HPAL plant in Central Sulawesi with annual capacity of 60 kt nickel and MHP. In the next slide, I will provide update progress on each. Our second project is Pomalaa project to build mine the same with Morowali, 100% owned by PT Vale in the mining, and HPAL plant with annual capacity of 120 kt MHP. We are partnering with Huayou and Ford to build the HPAL plants. The third project is Sorowako Limonite project to build also 60 kt HPAL.
Unlike the other two projects, we will not spend significant capital for the mining, as we are going to use the limonite from existing Sorowako mining operations. The structure of commercial agreement will be similar with Pomalaa, as we are going to work with the same partner, which is Huayou. Lastly is Tanamalia project. The second phase is for the feasibility study. For development in Tanamalia block, mine is ongoing, including partner selection for technical HPAL operators. Can you go to the next slide, please? Go ahead. From Bahodopi mine, as you can see in the pictures, the construction is ongoing with the progress 76% as of end of April, with the total workforce today is about 2,700 people in the grounds. We are able to accelerate the mining operations.
We did a first- cut mining, which is last month, continued partial mining operation by our mining surface operators that being hired two months ago. At the same time, we applied RKAB. We submitted RKAB last month, 7th of April, which is in the top of 2.2 million saprolite ore, which is aligned with our mining plan today, even higher the one that comparing with the initial plans. The ore sales also set to begin early of Q3 2025 or earlier, subject to RKAB. You see also the pictures, the first cut ceremony and also the first cut of mining operations in Bahodopi. In Pomalaa mining, construction also is ongoing with the progress of 20.22% and total workforce also increasing up to 2,144 as of today.
Some of the facilities being concluded include dormitories and work in progress with other facilities like ponds, stockpile, mine haul road, and other saprolite facilities to support mining in 2025. Like the others, Sorowako Limonite's also construction ongoing, with the workforce today is about 400 people in the ground. Construction in progress include camp, MRAL, and also stockpile, include some offices for our construction team to work with. Next slide. This is some picture from Bahodopi mine. As you can see that we are almost finish off the port, the jetty. You can see in the middle down that this is the key facilities for us to sell the ores this year, as well as overpass provinces, which is finished off and tested last week, and some facilities include office, selling point and others.
We are very close to that infrastructure completions while we are in progress into mine and also start to selling the ore that we are expecting to have it by Q3 2025. Next slide. This is in Sambalagi. This is Morowali with GEM. They are now mobilizing the equipment, 49 equipment in the grounds, together with 400 workforce, also starting to continue the work being done in the past. So with the aim to finish off also the plans in Sambalagi by Q4 2026. Next slide. Is in Pomalaa mining, you can see also, as I mentioned, the progress is about 20%. We integrate some of the facilities. You can see some pictures, work in progress into the grounds today. Next slide. As well as in the HPAL site.
You can see also that really fast, I can see in the grounds, the ground improvement, piling works, access roads for development. You can see also the pictures in the middle there, the autoclaves. There are five autoclaves to be installed that is being finished off in China, and it is ready to go to the deliver to site, just waiting the jetty to be finished off by September this year. So once we finish off the jetty, so by October, the autoclaves being sent it, and then right away it is going to be installed on the ground. So the plan to have first mechanical completion for Pomalaa is Q4 2026, which is next year, aligned with our mining progress as well. In the next slide, some picture also in the Sorowako Limonite, as I mentioned earlier, some stockpiles being built, and also some facilities also work in progress.
In the next slides, in the Sorowako Limonite JV. Next slide, please. Oh, sorry. That's the last slide. In overall, in the growth project is basically still a work in progress. Even in Bahodopi mine, the first stage, we are actually accelerating to have the operation upfront, which is three months ahead of the plan. We will be able to secure 2.2 million tons plan this year, comparing with the original plan, 1.3 million tons of saprolite. As well as in Pomalaa today. We are actually having all of the main contractor, main surfaces contractor in hand today, for both Bahodopi and Pomalaa operations. We are actually really optimistic for both mining and JV sites to be able to be finished off according to the plan, which is most of those are actually next year, 2026, and also some part of 2027. That's all from my side.
Back to Mas Rizky for the financial results presentation. Thank you.
Yes, thank you. Pak A sril, selamat. Sorry.
Thank you.
Okay, next slide. I just want to reflect a bit, right? Q1, I would say it is not only on mining, but I think in general industry, it has been quite a tough time. With mining specifically, we can see the pricing has been continuously moderated quarter-on-quarter. I think from the fourth quarter, when we look at LME from a price point perspective, has been showing a continued trend in terms of pricing. It is continued to decline. Regulation, I think, we know Q1 we were faced with new regulation, new decrees. For instance, V40 fully captured within this quarter, within the Q1. I think, just to reflect a bit that it has been quite an interesting dynamic for the start of the year, especially for mining, but I think also for the market in general.
I think the main objective, especially from PTVI, is to continuously be competitive in the sense that we understand we have a competitive advantage, not only from how we operate, but also from a cost-based perspective. I think in a sense, what we have been doing and continuously aiming for is a continuous improvement, especially in the front of cost-based efficiency, uplift of initiatives, be it additional ore sales, as mentioned by Pak Asril. It is our first commercial ore sales for the year from Pomalaa. Later on in the second half, hopefully, we can see the massive one from Bahodopi Block, subject to RKAB. Aside from that, I will show in the next slide, in the few next slides, we will be showing as well. Maybe, sorry, previous slide. We will show also our other focus, which is on the cost avoidance part.
I think, just recapping, the first one, cost efficiency, cost-based improvement, and uplift of initiatives. Second point is cost avoidances. In this slide specifically, when you see compressing nickel LME price, but we can also see that margin is kept quite at a healthy level. Later on, moving on to the next slide. We understand that from an input commodity price, it has been quite a good trend at this point in time. We have been trying to capture the most optimum way on how we actually can leverage in value, from a sense that HSFO and also price of oil in general has been declining. So we proactively, from an inventory management point of view, capture the best value as much as possible. From a diesel usage perspective, I think for Q1, there has been a slight increase for this one number.
But throughout the year, we are confident it is still going to be around the same level of the fourth quarter that we are having in 2024. But in that sense, you can see that there is already a reflection of the nickel matte. I think when we reflect back to the number of 8,501 of cash costs of production that we showed in the previous slide, it is already taking into account the increase in people cost in our energy mix. But the interesting part is also on coal. I think, as mentioned before, when we talk about continuous improvement, it is not only on how we use things from an efficiency of volume, but also on how we can actually get more leverage in terms of better pricing.
For coal, for Q1, we managed to secure, from a procurement category point of view, an additional procurement category in the sense that we can source more coal with the specification that we have, to provide more competitive bidding process and better process within our procurement side. I think, hopefully, this will be also a new baseline going forward when we talk about energy consumption, specifically for coal price. I think in confluence, going to the next slide, when we talk about those savings and also the focus that has been and will be continuous will be, a nd continuously, will be the main agenda of PTVI.
I would say that despite the declining price, you could see that from a price point of view, it has been continuously declining. When we see it from a quarter-to-quarter perspective, it's a continued decline of 5%. Pak Abu also mentioned that we had, from a production point of view, a bit of an unplanned maintenance. But we took the opportunity to accelerate so that we can actually have a good recovery plan for throughout the year. So production volume for Q1 was also lower by 8% quarter-to-quarter. Hence, in consequence, then revenue is also lower in that sense. But sales volume, I think this is one thing that we would like to highlight. So nickel matte has been quite the mode of operation that we have been reflecting for quite some time.
But ore sales, this is the first one from a commercial point of view, we're showing sales. Understand that the number is still relatively a small number when you compare to the Bahodopi one, but it's a good start that we have. And I think one important point to be mindful of, it's still a good market premium that we're getting today. So I think that is one aspect for Q1 that has been showing a good sense that we are actually having a new baseline of sales moving forward. And coming from there, I think revenue part from a production and price point of view, it has been quite a challenging situation. But with the cost structure management that we proactively seek in given costs or sales, we continuously try to improve and achieve a 5% continuous reduction from quarter-to-quarter.
Based on that, we go down EBITDA still lower. But to give you a bit of a sense, when we talk about net 5%, which is maybe from around almost $1,000, maybe of quarter-to-quarter price decline, it will reflect quite a significant number of reduction to EBITDA. So I think with the cost measures that we have and also the price reduction, the reduction of 5% of EBITDA, it's quite a good number in the sense that the savings can handle a bit the impact of the price decline. But when we go to net profit, I think there has been quite a bit of a question as well on the net profit side. The Q1 we showed a significant increase with the number of Q1 of $22 million of net profit level. I think one comfort that I can provide, it's coming from a good operation.
We are still showing a good operational result, but also we have a one-time increase in revalued gain. Specifically for this revalued gain, I think when we talk about valuation, there are many assumptions that are built within valuation. But we can give one definite comfort. We are not looking at the assumption of nickel price. We are not looking at the movement of cost of credits. But the improvement is mainly, almost 100% of it, is actually coming from the tax holiday that we received in one of our project, which is HNI. So in a sense that when we talk about verified valuation with the tax holiday already embedded, it is not 100% effect. So as long as it is still in the tax going forward, it is not going to be 100% of the one-time gain that we receive from the verified valuation.
I think important point as well is cash and cash equivalent. I think we are still blessed with a good balance sheet posture. In the next slide, we will show that despite the amount of cash balance that we have, despite of the understanding of the project requirement, we continuously seek for continuous improvement within the project side, which I think Pak Asril later on can also explain what are the initiatives behind that. Moving on to the next slide. Based on our review and discussion internally and with the potential partner as well, with the partner that we have, we can gladly say that we have achieved quite a substantial amount of savings going forward.
I think, again, just recapping the focus for PTVI, aside from having a better cost base and also improvement within the sales initiatives, we also see cost avoidances, which in this sense, we have captured around $ 800 million of CapEx savings going forward throughout the CapEx cycle, especially the next three years. It is coming from two fronts. I think the first one is coming from Pomalaa HPAL. But later on, I think Andaru can share a bit about the progression of the Pomalaa HPAL. But I think technology partner and also ourselves, we are quite confident that we could have a good reduction to the CapEx intensity. When we talk about reduction in CapEx intensity, this is a continuous effort as the technology is improving. This will also be aiming to be reflected in the other projects.
On the other side, aside from the HPAL development also, we have the mining side of things, which I think is 100% of value of PT Vale. In this part, it has been showing a good amount of number, as you can see a bit on the slide. Previously, we see a higher number year-on-year with the dashed figures. So I think this was the numbers that we have been distributing in the previous earning call. But now we are quite confident with partnership and also with better understanding on how to efficiently operate. $ 800 million of cash saving has been reflected in the upcoming future. I think just a bit of a highlight. This is not a shift of CapEx. So I think in a sense that this is actually a reduction in base level.
So the main idea is for us to think differently when we are in this price point situation, trying to maintain the best year possible within each project level, and also to provide the best return to the shareholders. I think it is going to be a continuous process for us, and definitely we will involve, we will inform any development, especially on cost savings and also cost avoidances. I think I am going to the next slide, and this is actually my last slide. I think just as a closing note now. We see that there will be continuous development, especially on the uplift initiative and also the cost savings. What we see from a quarter one cost basis, we expect continuously to improve, hopefully not only on the costing side, but also on the uplift side.
It will capture new front of sales, especially when we take into account, as Pak Asril said, the 2.2 million of saprolite ore subject to RKABs. But also on other initiatives later on as we progress, we will continuously involve and inform all of you. Coming back to Andaru for Q&A.
Thank you, Pak Rizky. Okay, so we will now begin our Q&A session. For those who are joining online, you can just type your name and institution in the Q&A box, or you can just raise your hand. Then for those who are in the meeting room, please feel free to ask questions to our management. Okay.
Thank you, Pak Ryan from Indo Premier. Maybe just one question from myself regarding if there is any room for negotiation for nickel mine price and OSP? Because I think if you look at the market price is around $13,500 at this point, that translates into 80%, 85% of your EBITDA. Meanwhile, for INCO or PT Vale Indonesia, the payability is around 73%. Maybe that is all. Thank you.
I think I could not say the exact answer for this, but we are already closing a number. Hopefully anytime soon, we can show an improvement in that sense. Of course, when we talk about payability, especially on the nickel matte, it is going to be a payability with a continuous long-term relationship between Vale Canada, Sumitomo, and also PTVI. But to answer your question, that is actually one thing that is an ongoing discussion. We can already say that it has been for quite some time. The discussion has been going on for quite some time, and we can already see a common number, hopefully anytime soon.
Great to hear. Thank you.
Okay. Thank you, Pak Ryan . Anyone else from the room?
Maybe me.
Okay.
I was just wondering about the maintenance schedule, which was done already in Q1. What about the furnace rebuild, if any? That would be my first question. My second question, what is going to drive your cost trend in this sequential quarter? You mentioned earlier the bill will continue to go down. What will be the drivers there?
Okay. Pak Ryan , I will ask Pak Abu to answer the first question. Pak Abu, what the furnace rebuild for this year and the guidance?
Okay. Basically, the production-wise, a challenge and depending how we manage the strategy. Having early shutdown, it is not a new strategy, actually. Actually, similar to the last year production that we have more issue in the first half and doing the repair, unplanned shutdown, but we could manage more stable operation in the second semester, and we can achieve even beyond the production target last year. Similarly to this year, we have the opportunity, like we have unplanned shutdown in the first quarter, but we prepare the material already there. It is better to move the shutdown plan from third quarter to become first quarter. We see also the situation for the second quarter as well, looking at our reliability in the furnaces.
We can manage to have more shutdown in the first semester, and we can have more reliable operation production in the second half. Back to the same strategy last year, and this strategy is quite powerful to be able to manage to still deliver our production output annually. Yeah.
Thank you, Pak Abu. Whether or not we are going to see any furnace being rebuilt for the Sorowako Nickel Matte.
Sorry, very small, the voice. Sorry.
Do we have any schedule on Sorowako Nickel Matte, one of the nickel matte line being rebuilt for one of the furnace?
Furnace rebuild schedule, Pak Abu.
Oh, okay. Yeah. Those, the production target I show you, 71,234, that is including the budget we have shut down from November to December. Two months production impact this year, but we still put the target production similar to the last year by looking at some improvement that we can see learning from the last two years.
Okay. Thank you.
Probably on the second question from Pak Rizky, on the cost trend for this year.
I think for Q1, we can already see from a procurement category for already showing a bit of an improvement there. In that sense, it's a new baseline in the sense that we can source more category for coke. But focus, it's not only on the procurement category, of course, but the focus, most of it, will be on energy consumption. I think if we later on, Pak Abu will look and share a bit on other initiative on how we can reduce the energy consumption from volume point of view. For instance, there's the watering program that we have trying to protect the wet ore supply so that we can actually lower the moisture content. In the sense that it will reduce the amount of energy usage that we need, which, hence, from a volume point of view, will require less amount of fuel input.
Aside from that, I think, we also try to see from a cost base of employment as well. Pak Abu, I think later on, can provide a sense on how we can provide, from an employment point of view, a general sense that is working with the business plan that we have going forward, not only from a compensation point of view, but I think from an employment cost in general. Moving from there, we also try to have an uplift on the revenue side. So it is going to be the ore sales here from the existing 209,000 from Pomalaa . Then we will have the 2.2 million coming from Bahodopi.
Again, with the market that we have today, and with the experience that we have in Q1, it is still a good premium that we have, and we captured, especially for the saprolite ores. So I think those are the areas that we are actively looking at. Especially when we talk about energy consumption in general, it is the big chunk of the cost structure that we have. But I think aside from that, we will also look on other alternatives that we can see from an alternative usage of tires, and other input materials so that we can have a new baseline of costing of operations.
Okay, thank you.
Anyone else?
You have been saying that you are seeing nickel ore premium in the past month, maybe. Can you share with us how big is the nickel ore premium? If more RKAB are being given in the second half, can we expect nickel ore premium to last for the rest of the year?
Yep. I think you can calculate back this number with the Q1 disclosure that we have. To give you a sense, I think with the grade that we provide, around 1.7%-ish, 1.7% of saprolite ore. From an HPM perspective, that reflecting the LME price at Q1, it should be around maybe $30 - $32 per ton. Somewhere that reflect there. If you calculate that, the number of volume and also the number of sales, it is also around the number $30. That is FOB. We sell it on CIF. From a premium perspective, it already include logistical, it already include the royalty amount as well, and it already deduct with the mining cost. I think from that sense, that is the amount of premium that we are making today.
From a market perspective, I think you can talk with other mining players, it has been showing an almost maybe 60% - 70% premium on CIF basis. Yeah, when we talk about premium, now as we speak, we are trying to have a competitive process for the Bahodopi one. So far, the understanding that we have, and I think there hasn't been any major news, especially from the supply side as well. Premium is still within the comfortable level that we are comfortable with.
Thank you.
I think hopefully it answers your question. The number that we declared, it is FOB . If you divide that number, it is around $30 per ton roughly. That is FOB. It already deducts logistics, already deduct everything, the royalty.
Anyone?
I have one question, maybe on the mining side. Based on your previous presentation, maybe last year, you did give a long-term guidance on the nickel production in all of the mining sites. So 2026 guidance was 18 million WMT, I believe. It was a combination of saprolite and limonite. Do you think that guidance is still intact right now, or do you have a new revision on the guidance?
Pak Asril? [For this year , the questions?]
Yes. Actually, for this year, if I understood the question correctly, as I mentioned earlier by Pak Rizky, the one that we are selling actually in Pomalaa today is 290,000 tons, which is our inventory that has been produced since last year. But for Bahodopi, which is I mentioned that 2.2 million, it is already been current RKAB today, actually. The one that we changed in the RKAB is only to change from the only production into the selling of the ore, which is into the finance level in the RKAB. Which is not really significant changes. Which is, I met also with some authorities that they are actually accepting that. So as of today, I can say that even for myself, it is quite optimistic to be able for us to start selling it in Q2, but let us see it again at the RKAB. So 2.2 million is the maximum.
Now, talking about limonite, as you mentioned earlier also. We are producing limonite as well from Bahodopi this year, which is about 2 million-3 million tons this year. It is side by side with saprolite. But if you recall in the past, that our strategy in the past was only to mining saprolite, which is limonite putting into the ground. But with these current changes of the technologies, then we are shifting it from RKEF to HPAL 10, which is we are now able to produce also the limonite. Parallel with RKAB today, we also submitted a revision of feasibility studies to the MEMR today. We submitted. Which is inside that, we are also pulling some limonite sales, which is this year. I am not going to disclose, saying that we are going to go there, but this is really subject to FS and further RKAB revision.
We are aiming also to resubmit again the RKAB, once we are actually having the addendum FS being approved. Hopefully that answer your question.
And you know your past response, I am very confident because if you reflect back in the fourth quarter of last year, I think Bahodopi, Pak Asril, if I am not mistaken at that time, it was only 1.4 million, 1.37 million, right?
Yeah. Actually, 1.4 million, as I mentioned earlier. And actually in the original PP 150, we are upgrading it to 1.4 million, now we are upgrading back again to 2.2 million saprolite this year.
I think the change is actually accelerating the ramping- up process.
Yeah.
Okay, we have question online, Pak Asril. This part we also give to Sheila. This is from Ariyanto Kurniawan from Mandiri Sekuritas. The first question is, his question is basically around the nickel ore business, yes, and fit investment in each target.
The first one is, can you share guidance on blended total cash costs on nickel ore for third-party sales, mining cost plus transport, and updates on actual nickel ore RKAB in 2025 and 2026? Total cash costs from mining, right?
Maybe, Pak Asril. I can provide a bit of a number, but it will also reflect upon the actual condition of the mining site. But Pak Asril later on can add additional details. But I think we can safely say that from a mining cost point of view, when we talk about the overseas part, which is going to be coming this year from Bahodopi, and next year it's going to be from Pomalaa. Bahodopi definitely we're looking at a number of below $ 10,000 per ton, if I'm not mistaken, Pak Asril, from a mining cost point of view.
Pomalaa is going to be below that because of the size. But I think for this year, we're looking at that number because that is also the number that we are trying to achieve jointly with the operator that we have. From a transportation point of view, I think just to give you a bit of a sense, for Pomalaa, I think it's around 22 km, right, Pak Asril, from the mining site that we have up until the logistic port. But for Bahodopi, we're looking at maybe around, to our own port, around 6 km - 7 km, Pak Asril, around that number. So it's going to be quite a good number to work with, especially from a logistical point of view. But yeah, I think that's a bit of a guidance that I can provide. But Pak Asril, please add that.
Yeah. I'm not going to mention precisely because this is a range number. But just to give you some early information. Not early information. Pre-information regarding the difference between Pomalaa and Bahodopi. The stripping ratio in Pomalaa is much better than Bahodopi. So if you're talking about the cost of mining for both are also different. The cost of today, based on the PP that we have with our third party, is basically blended cost between limonite and saprolite. In Pomalaa, it's in the range of, I can say $ 7.5 -$ 8.5 per ton, ores, while in Bahodopi it's about $ 10 -$ 11, actually. Those are the difference is based on the volume of productions. As presented earlier, the production volume in Pomalaa is about 28 million ton per annum for saprolite and limonite, while in Bahodopi it's about 16 million ton ore per annum.
Those are actually the range of the mining costs, the one that we have today in hand. This is the real cost based on the calculations of the rate from our contractor plus our own costs, our fixed costs from our own operation, which is our own employee as well. Thank you.
Luke?
Luke, I think, is [not] on the call.
Oh, Luke is not on the phone.
Okay. For question number two, I think. Yes, I think for the HPAL project that we have today, it's for HPM. The HPAL project , the selling price from a last take or supply agreement, it's still at HPM as of this point of time. But of course, I think whenever the market price and the reference price reflected a different number, then discussion will be held. And I think this is not only the interest for the selling of the ore, but also I think government looking on setting the right benchmark price on that sense as well. But I think to answer the question, as of today, what we can say it's still based on HPM for the HPAL projects that we have.
For the second one, the valuation of the 30% stake in the HPAL projects , will it be affected by the volatility of nickel price or based on cost plus interest cost? I think, really good question, Pak Asril. When we talk about the derivative valuation, yes, it will be affected by the volatility of nickel price. But again, I think, as earlier mentioned, we try to be very much conservative when we talk about nickel price assumption. I think especially when we look at the Q1 number reflecting that gain, it was not coming from LME nickel price. In that sense, we try to minimize as much as possible derivative gain from LME nickel price. And we already conservatively set that number at a moderate price to break with. And for the cost plus interest cost.
I think, this one, of course, when we talk about CapEx GMP, meaning that when we enter the project and execute the call option, then there will be a talk about not only how it is actually built on the specification and costs, GMP perspective, but also on the cost structure. Yes, this will be a discussion of the cost plus interest cost based on the pre-agreement as of the call option execution date. Yes.
Okay. Thank you, Pak Rizky. Okay. Next questions. Anyone from in the room?
Sorry. Can I see the question from the monitor, please?
It is on the chat.
It is in the chat?
Can you open your Q&A chat box, sir? Pak Asril.
I think we-
It's okay.
I do not think we have further question from the chat box, Pak Asril. I think that is already answered before by Pak Rizky. Okay. We still have 10 minutes to go. Any other questions from the offline, online attendees, please? No? Okay. I guess that wraps today's event, ladies and gentlemen. Okay. Before we close the session, I would like to ask Pak Adriansyah Chaniago to give like a closing remarks. Pak Adriansyah ?
Okay. Thank you. Once again, apologize our acting CEO is still on the way, so he cannot join the call. Thank you once again for joining us today and for your continued interest in our company. As we wrap up the first quarter of 2025, we are encouraged by the progress that we made despite the challenging dynamic microenvironment. We appreciate your trust and support on behalf of Board of Commissioners and Board of Directors, and look forward towards updating you again in the next call. Until then, stay safe and take care. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Pak Adriansyah.
Okay. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. We will close this meeting. Thank you very much once again. See you in the next quarter. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.