Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Vodacom Group Limited Results Conference Call for the three months ended 30 June 2022. Vodacom Group CEO, Shameel Joosub, will host the conference call. Before I hand over the call to Shameel, I would ask that you refer to and familiarize yourself with Vodacom's forward-looking disclaimer. This is set out on page 15 of the trading update and can be located on www.vodacom.com. Alternatively, if you would like a copy of the trading update sent to you, please email Investor Relations at vodacomir@vodacom.co.za. Shameel, over to you.
Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone, and good morning to those joining the call from the US. I'm joined by our Group CFO, Raisibe Morathi, as well as our Head of Investor Relations, JP Davids. Our first quarter performance was set against the backdrop of heightened uncertainty about the global economy as a result of COVID-19 and the Russian-Ukraine conflict. Inflation is accelerating in most of our markets where we operate, which is putting pressure on the consumer spend and our rate of growth. To help our consumers stay connected, we are leveraging the power of our big data capabilities to deliver personalized nano pricing through our Just for You platform. Further, we are actively deploying the high demand spectrum purchase through ICASA's auction process earlier this year to improve customer experience and accelerate the rollout of high-speed internet access in the country.
During the quarter, we also made good progress in key pillars of our strategy called the System of Advantage. Starting with towers in South Africa, we're making good progress in establishing a separate legal entity for the tower co. We intend to announce an experienced tower co executive as the managing director starts shortly. This move is part of the broader agenda to optimize and maximize the opportunities of our assets and lower cost to communicate. From an M&A perspective, our purchase of a 55% stake in Vodafone Egypt is expected to receive Egyptian regulatory approval in the near term as we await final regulatory sign-offs. This is an attractive asset, and we are eager to conclude the transaction as soon as possible.
In the quarter, Vodafone Egypt accelerated service revenue growth an impressive 19.2%, well above low penetration rates and our business plans. Our acquisition of a 30% stake in South Africa fiber company, CIVH, with an option to increase the stake to 40% is going through the regulatory approval processes. ICASA held public hearings in July, and we expect the transaction to close in the current financial year. This is an important acquisition for us as the deal will help narrow the digital divide in South Africa by expanding the reach of affordable high-speed connectivity. In addition to consumers benefiting, this is a win for the Internet service providers who can access more fiber through an open market infrastructure. In Ethiopia, our greenfield operation for Safaricom Ethiopia will launch commercial operations from August.
The rollout will cover 25 cities across Ethiopia in the coming months, including Addis Ababa. Financial services remains a clear strategic priority for the group, contributing ZAR 2.1 billion, or 10.2% of group service revenue. The mobile money levies implemented in Tanzania continued to weigh materially on the growth in the quarter. However, the good news is that the levies have been reduced by a further 43% from July 2022. This means that the levies are now down 60% since implementation, a clear positive for the poor, the financial inclusion outlook, and results in Tanzania. Despite the levy headwind, our platform continues to grow strongly, and M-Pesa transaction values processed over the last twelve months, including Safaricom, were $340 billion, up an excellent 20.2%.
Supporting our financial service strategies are our VodaPay and M-Pesa super apps. These are critical to building out our two-sided ecosystem, which brings together consumers and merchants. Additionally, the super app approach supports a major change in our partnership model as we expand from a few partners to thousands of service providers. Critically, the super app removes the barrier of physical limitations for both consumers and merchants, which can then expand well beyond the geographical boundaries in our addressable market. At quarter end, we had accumulated 2.8 million downloads and 1.9 million registered users on our VodaPay super app in South Africa. Across our M-Pesa footprint, our merchant base is growing rapidly. International M-Pesa merchants, excluding Safaricom, were up more than 200% to 84,250.
Switching then to our quarterly trading update, where the focus is on revenue and key performance indications. As with prior quarterly results, Safaricom does not report on its performance, so we will focus only on our consolidated operations. Service revenue was up 5.2% to ZAR 20.2 billion, a good result given the challenging consumer backdrop. Our performance was supported by resilient performance in South Africa and growth of our new services such as IoT and financial services. We also benefited from some rand weakness in the quarter, with normalized revenue growth of 3.3% compared to the reported revenue growth of 5.2%. CapEx intensity this quarter was impacted by phasing.
In the fourth quarter of the previous financial year, we accelerated spend as we captured the benefits of a stronger rand and in anticipation of global supply challenges. We will step up spend in the remainder of the year and target capital intensity in the range of between 13% and 14.5% consistent with our medium-term guidance. At a product level, we reported strong growth in our new service categories reflecting our multi-product strategy. These new services, which comprise fixed, IoT, digital, and financial services, reached 18.8% of group service revenue, moving closer to our target range of 25%-30% in the medium term. IT revenue was up 16% supported by strong g-base load.
Our IoT customers reached 7.3 million, up 22.3%. Financial service revenue was up 9.3%, adjusted for the mobile money levy in Tanzania. Financial services were up an estimated 19.7%. This growth rate highlights an excellent growth outlook for the segment as we re-accelerate financial inclusion in Tanzania. Shifting focus to South Africa, service revenue grew 3% to ZAR 14.5 billion and was supported by the improved performance in contract and a growing contribution from our new services. Our prepaid segment delivered a resilient performance despite the challenging macro backdrop of higher food and transportation costs, as well as delays in social grants. It was in this segment that we leveraged our CVM capabilities extensively to support our share of customer wallet.
The contract segment performed well, with revenues up 5.8%, supported by a 3%-5% price up during the quarter. New services contributed 14.7% or ZAR 8.4 billion of South Africa's service revenue. IoT revenue delivered excellent growth of 16.4%. The financial services revenue growth of 4.5% was supported by our insurance products, with policies up 8% to 2.4 million. We advanced ZAR 3.1 billion in Airtime during the period, amounting to 44.7% of total prepaid recharges. The growth rate of Airtime advance was subdued by bundle pricing changes in the quarter. Airtime advance volumes did however improve towards the end of the quarter. Mobile connections growth moderated from high levels impacted by wholesale revenue.
We are now lapping the postpaid roaming deal with Cell C, while Telkom has also optimized some spend. Data metrics remain strong. Data traffic accelerated 30.2% in the quarter. Smart devices on the network were up 11.5% to 26.4 million, and the average usage per smart device increased 25.2% to 2.7 GB per customer per month. Staying in South Africa, the proposed acquisition of Telkom by MTN is clearly noteworthy. We are of the view that the announcement aligns with the broader global trend of in-market consolidation, which we as a group remain supportive of. However, in the interest of safeguarding competition, regulators will approve transactions of this nature subject to various conditions.
Given the market dynamics in South Africa, we anticipate regulators would focus on ensuring spectrum equality and, with significant remedies regarding open access, to support lower cost to communicate in a competitive telco landscape. Moving to our international operations, we reported service revenue growth of ZAR 5.9 billion, up 10.4%. On a normalized basis where we remove the impact of exchange rates, growth was 2.4%. The performance was supported by strong growth in data. Across international, we added 946,000 customers in the quarter to reach a base of 42.7 million. Data revenue was up 23.4% on a reported basis and 14.9% on a normalized basis.
We are seeing the results of our network investment in the prior year coming through, with data traffic growth up 39.7% in the quarter. M-Pesa revenue was up 11.8% or 3.4% on a normalized basis. The mobile money levies had a 15 percentage points impact on M-Pesa revenue growth, so understandably, we are looking forward to lapping this impact in the coming quarter. Our new product areas within M-Pesa, such as lending, are growing strongly. We granted loans equivalent to ZAR 1.8 billion in the quarter, up 71.2%. The growth was supported by in Mozambique in particular, in which we leveraging the M-Pesa Africa strategic and operational direction. At the country level, the DRC delivered double-digit service revenue growth in US dollars, while Mozambique was impacted by proactive price transformation.
We expect our pricing moves in Mozambique to support improved elasticity through the remainder of the financial year. In Tanzania, which reported yesterday, service revenue declined 4.3% in local currency. As already highlighted, the outlook for this market is more encouraging as we re-accelerate financial inclusion. Raisibe and I are now ready to answer any questions that you may have.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if anyone would like to ask a question, you're welcome to press star and then one on your touchtone phone or on the keypad on your screen. If you however wish to withdraw the question, you may press star and then two to remove yourself from the question queue. Ladies and gentlemen, if you would like to ask a question, you're welcome to press star and then one. Our first question is from Jonathan Kennedy-Good of JP Morgan. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon. Couple of questions from me, please, on, firstly, the impact of load shedding in South Africa on network downtime. Obviously been through a fairly rough patch of late and must be fairly difficult to understand or forecast how the future might look with respect to further downtime. Just wondering if there's plans to invest in diesel generation or solar, and what kind of CapEx and OpEx implications there are for the group. Secondly, with the new spectrum deployment in the 2600 band, how is this benefiting the business and do you observe immediate kind of revenue and cost benefits? Any color would be appreciated.
Okay. Jonathan, a few things. Firstly, from a load shedding perspective, I mean, of course it was hugely disruptive. Nobody planned for eight hours, so, you know, I think that impact has been there. Funny enough, when power goes off, we actually get a positive impact on usage. I think you can see the acceleration in data growth. A bit of that is also got to do with the, you know, load shedding does give you a boost. That said, it only lasts as long as the batteries last. When you run out of batteries.
We have, you know, of course, we've spent quite a bit of money in the last two years, about ZAR 1.6-1.7 billion on batteries, then on generators and so on. What we've had to do is of course try and we're increasing the hours of standby all the time on the different sites. During this period we would have used more generator power, and then fuel prices have gone up, so there's definitely been an impact, you know, an impact on us in terms of costs. Now fuel and, you know, fuel is not such a big cost for us, but it is increasing.
You know, at least for the year there'll be at least ZAR 100 million plus impact from additional fuel costs, I would say, fuel and diesel and generators. What we are doing is basically a couple of fold. One is continuing to add batteries where we need to. That's one. And basically taking more sites to 6 hours and 8 hours, which we could have used that CapEx somewhere else, so it's frustrating, to be frank with you. And batteries also have a faster depreciation, so they do put an impact on some of the numbers. That's one issue.
The second part is, we continue to optimize our utilization at sites using IoT.nxt technology, and, you know, using all types of methods to kind of make sure that, you know, we can reduce the amount of power consumption per se. We're doing pilots on solar, we're doing pilots on wind power and so on. Solar, by the way, is projected to get more expensive in the short term because of the shortage of panels now because of what's happening in Europe. We're doing trials both in Europe and here in terms of getting the solar model to work, but it's not yet. Let's say at a point, it still is like a five-year plus payback in terms of deploying solar on site. Yeah?
What we are doing is we're doing wind power tests, we're doing solar tests, and we will continue to do that until we can get the optimal model, where it makes sense. What we have agreed, and we're busy with the pilots with Eskom, where we will move to green power and still in negotiation, but Andre is happy that I share it, and I did share it in the presidential forum, the other day. What we're doing with Eskom is basically looking to add. We sign, we will sign power purchase agreements, and basically that will then be added to the grid, and then Eskom will wheel it and then of course, charge a fee for wheeling, but we'll end up with a better rate.
They will do the credits for us, and they'll process the credit at source so that we don't have to deal with all the municipalities. They will do that piece. It's still in negotiation phase, but they see this as a clear opportunity to do it with us as a pilot, but also to do it with broader, let's say, corporate South Africa, where essentially that will mean adding a lot more power to the grid. As a business we've also had meetings with the presidency and all the ministers and so on, and they assure us that there is a plan to correct the power, and they shared with us their plan of how they're gonna do it. I think this is an added measure that can bring success there.
Solar is a part where we are deploying solar. Like on campus, we're busy with a big project to make the campus all solar. Where you can do self-generation on a big site, solar makes sense. Solar at a base station level is not yet, unfortunately, at the point where it makes sense. We're also trying to see if we mix different technologies like wind power, solar, can we come up with a solution? Both at a Vodafone level and at a Vodacom level, given the impacts in Europe as well, these tests are ongoing. In terms of 2.6 spectrum,
Can I just add that, to contain the cost, we also have negotiated some discounts with some of the oil leaders.
Just given the volume of diesel consumption, you know, given the crisis situation. That is not only giving us a good pricing, but also just the security of supply. That is something that we've done in South Africa, and we'll continue to explore in other markets as well with this opportunity.
Just on the deployment of the 2,600.
Yeah.
On the-
Yeah.
On the deployment of the 2,600, why you saw a little bit of a dip in the CapEx spend is, one, we took advantage of forward ordering, and then the CapEx was on the higher level of our guidance last year. We brought some stock in at the good rates prior to March. In some instances, we also swapped out radios where we basically sent stuff that we wanted to swap back so that we could get more 2.6 radios. Where 2.6 plays a big role is, remember, we've only just got it there, so we only got it from first of July, so it's a bit early, in fairness. Essentially what it does, it provides us with a lot more capacity.
The second thing is it gives us the ability to deploy both 4G and 5G at the same time, and we can then, if you've got 10 resources just to simplify, we can allocate one to 5G, nine to 4G, and then as the traffic on 5G picks up, that's beneficial to us. That does give us a benefit over some of our competitors who've got split spectrum.
Great. Thank you. That's very helpful.
Our next question is from Cesar Talan of Berenberg Securities. Please go ahead.
Um.
Yes. Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for the call and the opportunity to ask questions. I have two. The first one would be on your roaming agreement with Telkom. What happens to it if Telkom gets acquired? Is there any provision to it? Also, is there any minimum commitment from the Telkom side in terms of capacity or they need to pay you on a yearly or monthly basis? I'll ask my second question after. Thank you.
Yeah. The agreement's got another two years or so to run. We of course in discussions to see if we can extend the agreement. You know, Telkom is still willing to consider that, so or we're still in negotiations to look at further extensions to the agreement. I think that those discussions are ongoing. In terms of. Yeah, look, the regulated process will take anyway two years plus. You know, I think you know, we'll probably run into the end of the agreement by the time the regulated part comes up.
What it does mean, though, is that, you know, either we'll renew with Telkom, but it will be one of the remedies that we would want to seek if a MTN or Telkom deal came to pass. Yeah. I think this is one of the markets that would be impacted would be the wholesale market. The spectrum is one, wholesale is another one, and there's quite a few markets. Mobile is another one, spectrum is another one, and so on and so on. They will all become part of this discussion.
Thank you so much, Shameel. Yeah, I just wanted to follow up on these remedies. Obviously, it's early days, but you've given a couple of examples. Like, are there any specific points that Vodacom would be uncomfortable with, you know, when looking at this type of in-market consolidation? I mean, are there a couple of things that you would be demanding to regulators so that you are comfortable as a market participant with this type of in-market consolidation? Thank you.
Cesar, I have the scars on my back of Neotel, right? The Neotel deal was very, very complicated, not because of the, you know, buying into fiber and so on and so on. Everyone was happy with that, but because of spectrum. You know, we spent two years on Neotel, eventually walked away, and we weren't even near the end of the process, right? They could have gone on for another two years. It's gonna be a very, very complicated process, multiple stakeholders. Us being, of course, the primary one or one of the primary ones. The first thing is that spectrum equality is key. If MTN is buying this, they have to give back the spectrum, right? That's the first part. Otherwise, there's no way, you know, we would ever accept it.
We would then fight like hell to protect because spectrum equality is a given, not only in this market, but globally. From a global perspective, they're extremely important. The second piece that I think will be complicated for them is the unions and so on, and you'll see articles coming out this morning already. The third part, I would say, is open access. Remember, Telkom's assets have never been subject to open access. Are we going into a deal where we're going in with the principle that we're gonna open access everything? At a minimum, I think that would be required in this deal. So that could be hugely beneficial for everybody. You know, especially if they're gonna open access. Remember, they never open access there.
The reason DFA exists today or CIVH is because Telkom didn't want to provide dark fiber, let alone open access. Those type of things now have become subject to a regulatory environment, and I think, you know, they would have to open access fiber. They would have to open access international long distance and so on and so on. You know, for me, there'll be pages of regulatory parts, not just for us, but for the broader industry to be able to do it. Big picture-wise, of course, in market consolidation, good. Less players, more stability, more price stability, all of those type of things. In the big picture, you know, it will be positive for the industry.
It will be positive for us as long as the remedies are there.
Thank you so much, Shameel. Very clear. Thank you.
I think the other positive is, remember, you have to also legislate if the CIVH deal is not approved. There's no way now the other one's gonna happen.
Great. Thank you. Our next question is from Georgios Ieracleous of Citigroup. Please go ahead.
Yes. Hi, guys, and thank you for taking my questions. There are actually a couple of follow-ups on consolidation. Thank you, first of all, for clarifying the timeframe and also what you wanna get out of the process. I just wanted to check whether there is any risk that the kind of remedies the regulator will go for could be more disruptive for the market, like ensuring wholesale access for third parties and in mobile that could potentially damage pricing. If you don't mind just talking us through why you wouldn't expect this or if you feel that could be also a scenario that we should be aware of.
The second question is around towers and how does this consolidation process change, if at all, your view of both from an operational perhaps strategic perspective, you are thinking of progressing with your tower portfolio. Thank you.
I think firstly on the remedies part, I think, look, the reality is that the remedy is the first complainant on all of this will be us. I think spectrum and those type of things will naturally have to be sorted out because you can't create an imbalance. ICASA has just gone through a process to equalize the spectrum through the last spectrum auction. They've also set a spectrum cap per operator, which will mean that immediately MTN will have double the spectrum cap. Remember, Telkom still has some legacy spectrum that's above that. You're gonna end up having to give a lot of it back. That for us is the big issue.
The remedy in terms of open access, I think, will apply to the fixed network because that's where Telkom is really going to have an impact. In terms of mobile, I think the ability for there to be MVNOs already exists. There's a requirement, of course, for as part of the spectrum licensing to at least create one MVNO per operator type of thing. Those things are there. Basically, that will depend on whether people have the appetite and so on and so on to be able to want to play in the service layer. The infra layer will change because you'll have the networks, you'll have Vodafone, MTN, you'll still have. Sorry, remember you had 6 players who will now reduce to 5.
You will have five players, but the combination of Telkom, which is the fashion instigator, I guess in mobile, will probably be the most popular. Personally, I would have made a play for the fiber piece, not the whole thing, but that's just me. You know, yeah. I think we'd have to work through it. It's early days and I think, you know, what we're doing is a couple fold. We proactively making sure that we have full list of all remedies and best practices from around the world. That would be the one, including leveraging on Vodafone in that regard. Secondly, we will do a gap analysis. If it did come to pass, what gaps could there be?
We'll make sure that by the time this transaction comes to pass, that we've done enough to try and close many of those gaps. Of course, the big thing will be mobile will be more or less the same size as us. You know, if the deal comes to pass, which, you know, I think, you know, basically that's fine because that will create a lot more stability in the market in that respect. In terms of the TowerCo, we're proceeding with the separation of the TowerCo. Everything's been set up. No, it doesn't change our logic. We still wanna run it like a business, and we still see the strategic nature for it.
As you can imagine, because we have the largest towers in the country, everybody's been through here wanting to partner with us. There's many suitors, including suitors that were other operators sold their assets to. You know, I think, there's lots of opportunity around towers, and we'll. What we're doing is the MD starts soon. We basically put the team together, you know, and so on. We start to run it like a business and then of course look at opportunities around, you know, can we increase tenancies and that type of thing. Interestingly enough, if the deal goes through, Telkom will, MTN will end up with towers after we've sold their towers. That creates another interesting dynamic, you know, because they'll have duplication of towers.
you know, what are they gonna do with that? I think that also becomes an interesting piece in terms of value and what you do with the towers and so on.
Thanks, Shameel.
Our next question is from Myuran Rajaratnam of Midpa [uncertain]. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, guys, and thank you for the opportunity. First one is, you know, I want to see if I can elicit an answer out of you, Shameel. You know, in terms of valuation, you've run your pencil, your ruler over Egypt, you've run it over M-Pesa, Safaricom, all these things. Surely you must have run it over Telkom as well. Where do you stand on that? I mean, you're getting fiber assets, you're getting IT assets, you're getting mobile assets. Perhaps spectrum, we don't know yet, but where do you stand?
Honestly, look, I think my view is that Telkom's underlying assets were always undervalued in terms of what they have in the ground versus the revenue that they generate from it versus the EBITDA and the multiples. If you look at the assets, they've got some really good assets. There's no doubt about that. For me, I mean, the trading is based on profits and EBITDA and so on and so on. Effectively, you know, all their earnings potential that they never fully managed to gain, right? Let's be honest about it. Will you pay a premium on the current trading price? I think you would have to. Could that premium be big? Yes.
I'm not gonna put an exact number to it. I do think there's underlying value in the assets, but I think it's how you manage it, and it's also how you manage the legacy, you know, which I think is important, and the aging, right. There's a multitude of different things when you look at it, but it does have some good assets. I mean. The fiber play is roughly the same as Vuma. Vuma is slightly bigger than Openserve, you know. There is value there. They have a lot of properties. They've never really been able to commercialize it but, you know, they have their properties. You know, they've got backhaul fiber, they've got national fiber, they've got undersea cables. They've got business, you know.
You know, it's a mix of legacy and new, you know, is the way I see it. You know, I've always thought that there's more value to Telkom than what the share price reflects in terms of underlying assets.
You mentioned spectrum equality and the Neotel deal, and you've got scars still, right?
We'll also appreciate. Also in U.S., we also undervalue.
Okay. Well played. Well played, Shameel. My next question is on Neotel and spectrum because, you know, you mentioned you've got scars from Neotel. Just on that spectrum issue, I mean, that was a point in time, Neotel, you know, maybe 5, 7 years ago. Has the industry, the regulations, the overall international markets have moved on from there? Is it fair to say, or is it still everyone hung up on spectrum being not tradable or not selling?
I think as a Vodacom, we'll always be hung up on spectrum, Myuran.
Yeah.
You know, I think inequality in spectrum is a big issue.
Right.
You will have that hang up, right? In fact, to be honest with you, I think it's worse today with 5G, with 4G and so on. When we attempted it, you know, I thought I could slide it through, but it didn't work.
Good. Okay. Last question, and you know I have to have one tongue-in-cheek, right? You know, spectrum, you keep saying spectrum equality, so that means all your African operations where you have extra spectrum, you're gonna give it back to the treasury later, right? Because, you know, you really wanna play fair in those markets too. Is that right?
No, no.
Come on.
No. My assumption is, first we don't have the most spectrum in every market, so that's one problem we're trying to address. The issue is that spectrum in this country has always been subject to some kind of auction process, right? In South Africa, spectrum was given as part of the original licensing process. Telkom, I think Telkom had the biggest bunch of spectrum, which it just held on to, right? That was never allocated. That was allocated where, in the time where Telkom was on the one side of the corridor and the Postmaster General on the other side. Then they walked from one office to the other and allocated themselves what they needed.
Sure.
In some ways.
Cool. Thank you so much. It's always fun talking to you guys. Thanks a lot.
Our next question is from Nadim Mohammed of SBG Securities. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon. Just one question from my side. I was just curious, when I look at the international performance, it looks like data revenue held up really well, you know, in an environment where you had a lot of pressure on consumer spending and a tough macro environment. Just was wondering what exactly are the strategies that you're employing there. Is it about 4G rollouts or anything of that regard? It does look like data revenue is better than voice and paying in terms of holding up and, you know, I would think in a more normalized environment, it could have really been much higher than that. You know, your thoughts on that would be appreciated.
It's a multitude of different issues, I would say. I think the first one being just the normal demand for data, right? As you're converting people to smartphones and the normal usage grows in data, you know, that's there. You're getting more smartphones, more users, more data users, you know. There's a natural path, and I think that natural path will continue for years to come. I think it's not so much the growth. The issue that you manage in all markets is not the growth of data. Data growth is there. The issue is pricing and the stability of pricing. What's out in this quarter is also some stabilization in pricing. Regulatory price stability has been created in Tanzania as an example. That's one. DRC continuing to grow strongly on data.
Price stability plays a big role. You know, in Mozambique also the drop in pricing to be more competitive and a price transformation, and we've taken a hit on a pricing perspective, but to ensure more competitiveness going forward. You know, we constantly do reviews and we have pricing methodologies in each market. Yeah. Yeah, momentum in terms of coverage rollouts, more capacity and more 4G, more smartphones and the like.
Just to confirm, is the data price still in place in Tanzania now?
There is.
There is.
That has been implemented.
Excellent. Thank you so much. Appreciate that.
Ladies and gentlemen, just a final reminder, if anyone else would like to ask a question, you're welcome to press star and then one. We will pause a moment to see if we have any further questions. It seems we have no further questions on the line. I would like to hand back to Shameel Joosub for any closing comments.
Thank you for joining us today on the investor call and, please reach out to the investor relations team if you have any questions, and we will be meeting some of you, as we do some of the investor calls and lunches and so on. Thank you very much.
Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.