Earnings Call: Q4 2020

Feb 25, 2021

2020. My name is Claire Chin, Senior of Investor Relations at Adiata Group Bharat. Thank you for standing by. Today, we have with us Dato Izadim Idrich, Adiata Group's CEO and Vivek Shrou, Adiata Group's CFO as well as representatives from our operating company. There will be a short presentation followed by a Q and A. Lastly, 2 housekeeping reminders. You will be on mute throughout the presentation. Also note that The call duration will be for a maximum of 90 minutes. Without further ado, I would like to hand the conference over to Datuk Izadeh. Thank you, Claire, and a very good afternoon to all of you. Thank you for spending the time with us this afternoon to For us to share with you the results for the full year ended December 2020. As we all know, 2020 was a life changing A year for all of us from a business point of view. If you remember, after the Q1 and Q2 results, We were very nervous of the performance for the full year. But despite the challenging pandemic year, we like to think that we Managed to record credit performance for for the 2020. So just some key messages on these first two pages, after which Vivek will take us through the details. As you can see, and I'm sure you would have picked up the press release as well as the Bursa announcement, revenue Device is just a slight dip of negative 1%. EBITDA went up by about 1.1% with the account with EBITDA margin at 0.4 Now that's the result of on the back of OpEx savings of about $745,000,000 Now underlying Fatami compared to 2019 is down by 9.4%, but this, as you know, as a result of higher D and A And lower contribution from 2 markets 2 businesses, namely Ncell and E. Co. So compare the underlying part time of 865 with As we've explained, this is impacted substantially by the accelerated shutdown of 3 gs in most markets So we found 4 gs services. In total, the impact is about DKK 604,000,000 for the accelerated shutdown of 3 gs Across all the markets. Now adjusted operating free cash flow is up to by up to JPY 1,700,000,000, Whereas free cash flow itself sorry, for free for operating free cash flow, The number is DKK3.3 billion for the full year 2020, yes? Difference between DKK3.3 billion and DKK1.7 billion is the right of use assets. So that has led to a strong cash balance of SEK 7,200,000,000 across the group. And gross debt to EBITDA is At a manageable level of 2.57 times compared to 2.86 times in the 3rd quarter, That's the result of paying down some debt in the Q4. Now of course, I just need to just be mindful that the cash balance, JPY 7,200,000,000 It's a group balance. And as you appreciate in these markets, It's a bit of we're trying to work on the financial guardrails for Logos to dividend up more dividends to Corporate Center, to Aziata Group Rahat. But across the group, it's a pretty healthy balance for the OpCos to Thanks to the challenging period. Now going on to specific OpCoast, you can see there for Cellcom, The results, Fatami was lifted by better cost and trade management as well as financial prudence. You can see that Although revenue in Spring Device is down by negative 8.8%, if we exclude the employee restructuring program, the BSS that was implemented last year, Revenue was the EBITDA in Patami went up by 2.4% and 11.5%, yes? And of course, from a credit and management point of view, happy to report that the From point of view, happy to report that the bad debt level has been better managed this time around. For the full year 2020, it's about RMB 105,000,000 compared to RMB 165,000,000 the year before. And our interesting development as well, The Cellcom Live app has managed to attract now 2,600,000 monthly average users as at end of 2020. Moving on to XL. Dave recorded a very strong performance, very encouraging despite the price war, largely led by Telkomsel As well as, of course, the pandemic, yes? The weakened economic environment doesn't help, but again, the team there has done pretty well with Revenue was doing device at a positive 3.8 percent. And of course, effective OpEx management and better management of CapEx. Yes. Now Ncell continues to be a challenging year. It has been affected by the prolonged COVID-nineteen lockdown. Also challenges arising from spectrum constraint. As you know, we're still working on to get the L900 spectrum. At the same time, the lower active subscriber base, foreign workers, foreign remittance and so on. But at the end of the day, For the Q4, we are seeing some green shoots that hopefully will translate to a better 2021. And so far as Roby is concerned, As you know, Ruby was listed on 24th December last year. This morning, the share price is at 43 Dhaka Compared to the 10thaka IPO price that has lifted the profile, we'll be now into being 1 of the Top 5, top 10 listed companies on the Bangladeshi Stock Exchange. Operationally, we continue an aggressive 4 gs network Ascension in the non CCD area. And we're able to sustain profitability throughout the 4 quarters in 2020. And of course, That came on the back of strong subscriber data growth as well as cost optimization. Next slide. Now dialogue continues to be a stop for more and so far as our portfolio is concerned. Challenging first half Didn't deter management from ramping up their marketing efforts so that they were able to recover the second half. And at the same time, The diligent cost management has improved EBITDA margin overall to 42.3%. And as a result, Watami grew To 11.7%. Likewise, Smart and Other Starformer, this notwithstanding the challenges, whilst revenue Ex device grew by about 3.8%. Bottom line impacted by 3 gs asset write off, yes? So that's the challenge, if you like, for these markets. ADS continued to Gave momentum as a result of the wins from the accelerated digital adoption in the new environment. Happy to report that boost number of boost users is up to 8,800,000, number of merchants that signed up with us is at 224,000 And gross transaction value up 2x. Of course, this is driven by the jump in online transactions. ADA continues its trajectory, remain PAT positive, although ADS bottom line It's a loss, but that loss was dragged down further by the higher marketing spend at Boost to encourage government led e wallet adoption. To be specific, the higher marketing spend is about $40,000,000 negative, yes, that dragged down the results of ADS. Now e.co, whilst we all acknowledge the resilient nature of the business of towers, because of the pandemic, Also, critical challenges for rollout. Many of the customers had scaled down on their rollout last year. Hopefully, That will spill over into 2021 as well as some proactive measures on receivables that Iroko has, largely stemming from The 2nd tier customers in Pakistan and Cambodia, that has resulted in revenue growth of about 4% EBITDA, just marginally below down by negative 0.8%, while Sabatame came down by about 21%, yes? Now cost Per gig, as you recall in our December briefing, the Analyst Investors Day, we talked about a few targets that we've Outline for ourselves for the next 4 years, 2 of which are presented here, cost per gig. And so far as 2020 is concerned, cost per gig fell by 35%, and that's on track to reach our target of less than $0.10 per gain by 2024. The Board approved a second interim dividend of 0 point 0 $5 yesterday, and that brings a total dividend for 20.2 to 0 point 0 7¢. And this certainly will be a transitioning period for us towards a high dividend company. And the focus now is on the DPS Rather than DPR, in the past, we've always articulated a DPR strategy. But I think for all concerned, it's much easier Focus on the dividend quantum or dividend per share as a target. And again, the target is at least $0.20 by 2024. Insofar as headline KPI is concerned, we continue to maintain that we will not prescribe specific targets for 2021. We wish, however, to give guidance for revenue, excluding device and EBITDA growth for 2021 to be a low single digit percentage. KPET's guidance of about JPY 6,500,000,000 and of course, we expect the accelerated depreciation to weigh on Cellcom and Ruby in the near term. However, this puts the 2 companies in a better position in the longer term. Now I'll hand over to Vivek now to [SPEAKER UNIDENTIFIED COMPANY REPRESENTATIVE:] To take us through the detailed results covering the group as well as specific Telcos and EdoCo as well as ADS. Vivek? Thank you, Dato. Very good afternoon to all of you and good morning to those who are on the Western side, let me start with the first slide. This is the only slide which I'll talk about on reported numbers. And after that, it's going to be [SPEAKER UNIDENTIFIED COMPANY REPRESENTATIVE:] Underlying performance of each of the operating company. In terms of reported, we declined at 1.5% for full year. But if you look at quarter on quarter, We gained 2.5% revenue. EBITDA remained flat at 0.4% slightly On the reported basis, but we saw a quarter on quarter dip and EBITDA mainly coming out of the XL and also from e.co Impact of the credit losses which have been booked at the end of 2020. Profit wise, it is around 65% lower than the last year and Pathami 75%. But this I'll just take a little bit of while to explain. Last day, if you recall, we did gain onetime benefits of sale of M1, Gain from divestiture of our ADS businesses and the non core ADS businesses and the disposal of rights of IDEA shares, Which did give us overall gain of around $628,000,000 This year, we have basically Accelerated depreciation 3 gs shutdown in most of our markets, which has resulted in around negative 604 impact Booked in December 2020. Apart from that, we had a tower gain in XL Back in quarter 1, which gave us a benefit of $285,000,000 So net net between last year and this year, on reported basis, there is a negative impact €965,000,000 And that's what's broadly explains why the profit number for 2020 Looks much below the reported profit numbers of 2019. If I go to the next slide, Underlying performance, we it's much better than what we had anticipated at the middle of the year with revenue dropping Standing by minus 1% EBITDA showing a 1.1% growth. And if I adjust For the employee restructuring program in Cellcom, the EBITDA growth is of around plus 2.1%. And this Impact is mainly profit is lower by around close to 900.4% mainly coming out of the higher D and A, Lower contribution from Ncell and e.co. E.co, as I said, mostly on account of credit losses booked in December. That said, revenue did show positive growth in quarter, quarter on quarter plus 3%, Whereas EBITDA did have a marginal drop, as I said earlier, because of mainly Excel and e.co. And in terms of the businesses, I think the struggle last year has been mostly in EnCell where Revenues have actually dropped by 22.5 percent coming from both all factors, which is data voice and ILD. But the positive News is last quarter, we did see a comeback or a recovery in Nepal. As far as profit is concerned, 865,000,000 The lower profit from last year has been accounted for mainly in D and M, which is around 337,000,000, Lower contribution coming from Ncell and e.com and higher losses in ADS. If you recall in quarter 2 Announcement, we did mention losses of around $40,000,000 on account of the E-two Nair That program, which was run, if I exclude that, then ADS numbers are pretty much similar to 2019. Quarter on quarter, Patami is down by 13.6% and mainly again coming out of the contribution this time from Excel for the quarter And edotco. If I go to the next one, I think this broadly explains how the movement between the last year normalized And this year, dollars 869 compares. If you see, the larger part of that gap comes from the D and A, while we did See a positive €150,000,000 coming from EBITDA. Positive effect on tax is largely coming from the effect of deferred tax in XL, which has been lower than last year As well as Roby because if you remember, last year in 2019, we did have adjustments on taxes. And in 2020, we got the benefit of lower tax rates consequent to the listing of company in December 2020. As far as the reported patami and the underlying patami is concerned, the large part of that GAAP comes from the impact of accelerated depreciation. Accelerated depreciation is mostly in XL, out of that $604,000,000 $372,000,000 comes from XL and around $126,000,000 comes from Cellcom. And other than that, it's mostly the other factors, which includes partly the Cellcom restructuring cost As well as the ForEx translation. If I go to the next slide, I think this is what We've been monitoring closely, which is in terms of cash flow. Our OFCF has moved up from $1,800,000,000 to 3 €200,000,000 on a reported basis. But as you know, now OFCF does have the ROU assets in the on the EBITDA side, which benefits the EBITDA growth, but if we normalize for that, the adjusted OFCF Has grown from $337,000,000 in 2019 to $1,600,000,000 in 2020. Adjusted OFCF, if you look at it, it comes from all the operating companies except Ruby. In 2019, if you recall, We had challenges in Robi to import equipments because of the non availability of the no objection certificate, which has been caught up in 2020 By increased investment in Bangladesh. But other than that, mostly coming out of the improvement in EBITDA As well as lower CapEx spend in 2020 versus 2019. If I go to the next slide, The balance sheet remains resilient. As I said, the strong OFCF resulting in strong cash position of $7,200,000,000 Gross debt to EBITDA at $2,570,000,000 which is lower from $2,89,000,000 because of around $500,000,000 Loan repayment, which happened in November 2020. And other than that, balance sheet is strong For a reason that most of our borrowing now are at fixed rate, which are at extremely low rates, which we got the benefit of using the window in August For our Sukuk and the term loan program. And other than that, our maturities are much longer, which provides significant stability in the balance sheet for the group. If I go to Cellcom, A strong performance in Cellcom in quarter 4 with revenues Holding on to what the quarter three numbers were, but if I look at including devices, quarter on quarter revenue grew by around 2.7%. Year on year, 8.8 percent drop in revenue, mostly coming out of the lower revenue, which we got in quarter 2. After that, H2 over H1 has strong, Shrivan, a strong recovery. We've also added around 300,000 customers, new customers in the year, Which brings us back to pretty much the customer levels pre pandemic. The impact On revenue is also being because of lower ARPUs in 2020. EBITDA, strong performance Quarter on quarter with 10.6% growth in EBITDA and year on year EBITDA growth of 2.54% if I exclude The impact of the ERP program, which we ran in quarter 1 this year. Stable free cash flow And improved Patami, if I adjust for the accelerated depreciation and the impact of the ERP program, the Patami Has improved by around 11.5% over 2019. XL, Strong performance despite the price war and pandemic condition in Indonesia. Last quarter was bit of a dampener because of heightened competition and also weakened economic environment and the Impact of the government run program for subsidized data offering In quarter 4. And that has basically resulted in lower EBITDA in quarter 4. However, On a year to date basis, we've seen a growth of 3.8% in revenue and around 11.2% growth in EBITDA. And that's basically that EBITDA improvement as well as lower CapEx spend in 2020 has resulted in a much stronger And that has resulted in improved patami if I normalize for the impact of Tawa disposal and the Quickly on Ncell, as Dato said, it has been one of the challenging year for us For 3 factors. One factor has been the prolonged COVID-nineteen impact. 2nd has been Basically, the spectrum constraint, if you recall, we did get spectrum last year, which has still not been allocated to us. And that has resulted in spectrum constraint limiting us from driving data growth and monetization in that market. And also the fact that a large part of the Nepal market is also having the fixed presence where There has been a shift of consumption of data, resulting in lower active subscriber base relative to previous year. And that's basically resulted in lower revenue for the year. Core revenue dropped by around 22.9% And ILD dropped by 21.6%. ILD, we were expecting, but not at the pace at which it is reduced. But that said, We are seeing some positive signs specifically on core revenue. Quarter on quarter core revenue grew by 5.7%. EBITDA For the quarter on quarter, remained plus 3.5 percent year on year, mainly resulting from the lower revenue drop by around 25%. Free cash flow, positive 13.4% mainly coming out of lower CapEx spend consequent to the delayed Allocation of spectrum for us. Patami resulting from the lower revenue as well as new borrowing, which we did in April last year of around $20,000,000,000 NPRM. Roby, a strong performance from Roby, Continue to have sustainable profitability development in the business, and we continue to aggressively And our 4 gs network presence. Revenues have been impacted mainly because of the COVID impact. However, The company continued to focus on its cost initiative and efficiency plans, driving EBITDA growth of around 11.8% Comparably 2019. And free cash flow marginally lower. As I said earlier, there was a catch CapEx in 2020 from 2019, which was delayed because of the absence of NOC in 2019. However, Strong Patami development for the year coming down from a good EBITDA improvement. Next slide, dialogue. Strong earning growth continues to deliver good performance despite the economic conditions and The COVID-nineteen impact, quarter on quarter revenue growth of 5.8% and year to date revenue growth of 3% Resulting in a strong EBITDA development of 5.2% quarter on quarter and 8.9% on year to date basis And also improvement by around 2.3% on EBITDA margin from 40% to 42.3%. And that basically translates into improved Free cash flow of 21.9% and higher profits of 11.7%. But if I normalize the effect of ForEx as well as the Accelerated depreciation, the Patami growth in Dialog has been around 33.8% on a year to date basis. So the very strong performance coming from dialogue. Smart continues to deliver well for us. And quarter on quarter, 17.6% is bit of an adjustments reclassification from quarter 2 to quarter Q3 to quarter 4. However, on a year to date basis, 3.8% growth despite the fact lot of Tourism and roaming revenues have been impacted in the Cambodian market, but the core prepaid revenue has done well Despite the situation around the COVID, at 3.8% and the EBITDA growth of 6.6%. The business continues to focus on efficiencies to drive the improved margin, resulting in strong cash flow generation. Patami marginally impacted because of the 3 gs write off. But if you adjust for that, then Patami would be reflective of the improvement in EBITDA margins there. Boost our sorry, the digital businesses, I think businesses continue to be developing in line with our expectation With strong growth in terms of user base in Boost reaching 8,800,000, merchant base reaching 2,200,000, 24,000 And gross transaction value doubling from last year to so that's been a strong And also the fact that we are now looking at Boost delivering positive contribution at the very low cost level. SPRC, which is the microfinance business And microinsurance business has been picking up steam with around RM207,000,000 Ringgit worth disbursement of finance loans to around 9,000 odd merchants And micro insurance policies of 30,000 being distributed during the year. Digital advertising business continues to do well, runs another year of Positive profit and has added new partners during the year and continues to be looked at positively by Investors to come in and participate into the overall growth of this business. And the business has moved away from being a pure agency business Much stronger outcome based business, which provides end to end solutions to the companies. So that's on the digital businesses. E.co, if you look at E. Co, revenue continues to develop well, marginally below our expectations because of delayed Orders coming from the MNOs and some of the markets because of the COVID pressures. However, EBITDA impacted Quarter on quarter by around close to 20%, mainly coming out of the credit losses of around 78,000,000 for the year from some of the Tier 2 customers and some of them have been impacted Either because of the COVID or they have been impacted because of the regulations, where in Cambodia, 1 of the licensee there, license was canceled by the regulator. However, With moderated CapEx, the free cash flows remain positive. Fatami impact Negative mainly coming out of the credit losses booked at the end of the year. If I go to the next one, dividend, If you recall, we had paid SEK 0.02 interim dividend back in August last year. I'm pleased to inform that board approved yesterday the final dividend of 0 point 0 5 dollars which takes the total dividend payout of 7¢ for the year and this is on the backdrop of continuing risk around global pandemic. If I go to the next one, this is just to give you a Perspective in terms of how our cash flows are built for us to be able to go to what we are looking at a DPS target $0.20 by 2024. So if you look at our OpCo has generated around €4,400,000,000 of the operating free cash flow. If I adjust for the impact of RoU, Total earnings coming from the operating companies is around 2,400,000. ADS Consumed around €265,000,000 of cash flow. Going forward, we've been communicating that ODS ADS would, by and large, get external funding to support its growth, which would mean that the requirement of funding For the ADS business is expected to come down. We have EUR 316,000,000 of net finance cost For the year, this also with the new borrowing which we've done, we should be seeing reduction coming going forward on our finance cost. And the others is basically relating to the corporate center OpEx and some of the eliminations Between e.co and some of our MNOs, which is around 156,000,000. So group As such, generates and based on 2020 numbers, generates around 1.generated around 1.6 €1,000,000,000 operating free cash flow, so which is a fairly strong cash generation for the year, which we believe is Going to be the path forward for us to reach $0.2010 of dividend by 2024. With that, I'll hand it over back to Dato On this front moving forward here. Thanks, Vivek. So as you can see, we are rather encouraged by the performance the credit The good results, good efforts, strong efforts by the team at Cellcom As manifested itself again in the Q4, of course, there's still plenty of room and a lot of work that the Cellcom team is doing. But I'd like to congratulate the team there at Cellcom for making the results for the 4th quarter. And we continue to monitor the performance going into 2021. As I said We do not intend to give any specific headline KPIs for this financial year. However, the guidance we like To give is revenue and EBITDA growth of the low single digit. And at the same time, CapEx indication of about DKK 6,500,000,000. Some of the deferral from last year was spilled into this year, no doubt. But at the same time, we are mindful of looking at net Capacity constraints that we're currently facing throughout the pandemic, data traffic has gone up significantly. And so it just makes sense for us to continue to invest. Now at the same time, the big question mark is the Data growth, the traffic data growth, is that going to be sustained at that level? Probably the answer is probably no. But then we are not quite Sure. Where would be the equilibrium, if you like, post pandemic? Then again, post pandemic is anybody's guess right now. Of course, the vaccination program is going to help. But for all intang purposes, 2021 remains We remain rather cautious on the outlook for 2021. Next slide. In terms of opportunities and risks For the organization, I'd like to spend a bit of time here. Of course, from an opportunities point of view, we will continue to make Investments in ex Java in New Zealand as well as non CCD in Bangladesh, the 4 gs network rollout Results thus far have been rather encouraging. And of course, given the penetration rates in those two countries, and these are 2 growth markets that we see in our footprint countries. And no doubt, the continued efficiency the focus for us is on the continued efficiency improvements Through the collective BRAIN initiative, we are in the midst of finalizing the procurement for our core and Needs for in the next 3 years, we hope to see a very, very encouraging price book from the vendors That we can probably share down the road. In terms of ADS monetization, money in the bank from GE, that's a deal that's That's concluded. But the focus now for the digital financial services as well as ADA, and by the way, ADA is we're going to explain a bit more later on, but ADA has morphed itself into a digital and So the analytics and AI company rather than is move on from the initial days of digital advertising. And that's simply because of the work that they needed to do to serve the customers in the digital advertising space. There's a lot of focus on analytics today these days as well as on Hi. So the point here is that we continue to receive a lot of interest from Would be investors in those two businesses. Hopefully, we can make some announcements in a couple of weeks' time. That's Nice lead into the next item, the digital bank business. As you know, Bank of America has announced the digital bank Framework on the last year over last year. And we are very encouraged with the, if you like, framework that's been announced Because we like to think that we are able to tick all the boxes, so to speak. In due course, I do hope to announce the Partnership, the joint venture, the equity partnership for us to submit to the Central Bank in pursuit of this digital bank license, at the same time, hopefully, I can also announce the commercial partnerships that we have we are working on, Yes, so that the ecosystem of the digital bank can be presented, if you like, as part of the submission to show The complete nature of what makes a digital bank. Now as we've alluded to, we like I think that the ability to raise USD 1,500,000,000, if I remember the date correctly, 19 August last year was when we raised the funds, JPY 1,500,000,000 at very attractive rates. We've had it's always smiling since then. And From the ratios that we have, we are very encouraged that and cash position we have, we are encouraged that we can support the growth investments As well as the digital needs digital adoption needs of our businesses. Now insofar as risk is concerned, as I've alluded to, we think COVID-nineteen impact will continue for a bit of time in this financial year way into perhaps second or even third quarter. It's not as straightforward as you all would appreciate, just everyone getting vaccinated. If you like, the rollout of the vaccination program is also in itself a challenge, but we are rather encouraged by the progress that each of the countries Making Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Indonesia and of course, in Malaysia as well. As I've mentioned, the Strain has been placed on our network rising from high traffic and as well as physical rollout of our towel business and the nose That in itself is a challenge. Some regulatory uncertainties in Malaysia, Indonesia and Nepal, just to be just to clarify, in Malaysia, It's Arun Jindela and of course the 5 gs SPV, which I'll talk about separately. Next bullet point, Indonesia, there's the Omniverse Law, which we are still Waiting for specifics, there's some announcements on ownership, if you like, yes, for some of the businesses, which again is a very strong Testimony in terms of the government's wish to attract foreign direct investments, so we're encouraged by that. And of course, Nepal, which continues to pose as a challenge, not because of anything. Right now, as you would appreciate, there is no government Per se, because the parliament has been dissolved. So we're waiting for the developments on that front before we can actively or proactively engage with the regulator as well as the Ministry to secure this L900 spectrum for our business to roll out the network for this financial year. Now as far as the 5 gs SPV announcement is concerned. As you know well, first of all, Asiata is an organization with Being part of the digital and technology space, yes, we continue to support the country's aspirations, whether it's Jindela And of course, the Malaysia Digital Economy Blueprint, yes, because we believe that the connectivity that we can provide will develop Countries, not just Malaysia. In fact, it's all other emerging markets that we operate in. And of course, for us in Malaysia, the digital economy blueprint, We'll be able to raise the country's capacity in the shift towards digital economy as well as leveraging on the Industrial Revolution IR 4.4.0 opportunities. Now insofar as the announcement Of the 5 gs SPVs concern that was made last Friday, Cellcom continues to engage with MCMC, The industry and all other stakeholders on the establishment and intended operations of the SPV to ensure the successful rollout of the 5 gs infrastructure. At this stage, there is there are scars there are no details on the construct, The commercial arrangements and so on, a lot of work that still needs to be done. So we rather reserve or not Comment on any aspects of the 5 gs SPV. And of course, it's a subject of a lot of press coverage, comments made by rating agencies. But until and unless details are spelt out, yes, we at this stage rather not make our comments. Suffice to say, We will continue to engage the regulator, MCMC, the industry and all other stakeholders to make sure that the intended Operation SVB will ensure successful rollout of the 5 gs infrastructure. So on that note, I think We'll come to the conclusion of our presentation. Over to you, Claire. Okay. Thank you, Dato. So we move on to The Q and A session, there will be 2 options for you to ask your question. Option 1, you can ask the question verbally. Basically, raise your hand, go to that function in the taskbar. Wait till your name is called out, unmute yourself, Ask your question and please also remember to mute your line after that. The second option you can type your question in the It's a chat room, so you just click on show conversation and you can Type your question there, and we will take your question from there on. So happy to take questions now. Okay. We do see hands up already. Perhaps we can start with Phuong from CIMB. Tho, please unmute your mic and ask your questions. Okay. Hi. Good afternoon, everyone. Good afternoon, Tho. Thank you so much for the call today. A couple of questions from me. Let's start off with Cellcom. As Dato mentioned, pretty good quarter for the 4th quarter. So I wanted to ask a bit more questions on the operational performance. We have seen the 3rd consecutive quarter of postpaid Positive net adds for prepaid. Can you provide more color on what's driving that? Is it short term promotions that Cellcom is doing? Or is it something more sustainable? And do you think that these subs would stick in the coming quarters? And also if you can provide some color on the postpaid net As well, we should be quite healthy. Again, what's driving that? Was there any specific plans or promotions that is gaining Cellcom this traction? And also my second question for Cellcom is on the cost side. We saw a couple of cost items dropping A fair bit in the Q4. Were there any exceptional items? If so, can you list them down? And what were the amounts in the Q4? Okay. That's my question for Cellcom. And then moving to Ncell, you talked about the green shoots that we saw in the Q4. What is driving that recovery in subscriber base and also the improved data price elasticity that you mentioned in the presentation? And what is the outlook for revenue growth into this year? And is the EBITDA margin at high-50s sustainable, you think? And lastly, my question for e.co. After the bad debts that you provided for in the Q4, do you think That's it? Or are there still some pending ones in 2021? Yes, those are my 3 questions. Thank you. Very good detailed questions for Kumar. I'll touch a bit on the Cellform sort of experience in the Q4. And then I'd like to invite Idham and Jennifer, CEO and CFO, respectively, who is also on the call to provide better Clarity on the questions that you've raised. On NCELL, Vivek, you can address the price like last Yes, requested. And I can talk about eDOCOU insofar as the 2nd tier customers are concerned. Now on Cellcom, yes, I mean, It's an encouraging performance. If you look at the overall results of revenue, revenue came down, yes, by about 8.8%. But the good news is we've managed to recover back the subscriber base. If you recall, we lost a fair bit of subscribers in the Q1, Yes. So we're now back to where we were pre COVID. So we managed to add on something like 306,000 subscribers. Now the explanation for that drop largely is because the number of subscribers we managed to achieve was in the 3rd towards the end of 3rd And in the Q4, we were not able to generate the revenue to recover from the revenue loss in the 1st 6 months, yes? So hopefully, that trend will continue. In fact, Looking at the general results, we are very, very encouraged. Yes, insofar as the nature of what's driving it, yes, there's a conscious Effort to make sure that this is not a numbers game, but it's a profitable game, yes? Perhaps, Ilham and Jennifer, yes, Can I get you guys to give a bit more details on that? No, can't hear you. Can you hear me now? Yes, I can hear you now. Sounds like a sound. All right. There was a mute at the system level, so we just unmuted it. Okay. Firstly, thank you, Dato, for that quick answer. And thank you, Phuong, for the question. Yes, we have seen some good recovery in the Q3 and also the Q4, I think continued acquisition of new customers about over 300,000 for each of the quarter. So it's a good trend that we are seeing. We believe it's as a result of 3 Main drivers, number 1 is post the CMO, We introduced some little bit more competitive products in the market, especially with our unlimited prepaid. That seems to be resonating well with the public. So that was one of the first driver. The second also, we have improved in terms of our trade operation. The trade performance is showing a very good a very encouraging trend in terms of active dealers even to the long tail of the dealers. Last but not least, perhaps because of the MCO, The demand for the broadband and for the mobile services has increased quite significantly. And the fact that we have the largest and the widest coverage Also helps because we're seeing demand from some areas that we have the best coverage out there. So that's probably the 3 main drivers in terms of growth from both prepaid as well as postpaid. So it's interesting to note that coming out During the MCO, we were able to transform our operations and work to adapt to the situation. We're also seeing quite an encouraging increase in terms of sales and revenue coming in through our digital channels. On the cost and for the Q4, I'm going to pass on to Jen to talk a few of these big items. Hi, Feng. Thank you for the question. In Q4, generally in terms of the operational the OpEx, It has been on a declining trend because we have been embarking on the cost optimization. But having said that, you're right. In Q4, we have got a one off resulting from the we have a very prudent financial practice. But because of the settlement that we actually managed to finalize in Q4 From the tax front, we actually managed to have a reversal because of that of close to roughly RMB 90,000,000. Vivek, on Nsel? Yes. On Nsel, I would say that I mean, I put a bit of caveat because this is short one quarter we are talking about. So it's just the green shoots on The recovery in that particular market. That said, I think we've seen positive development on revenue generating base in the quarter, Which had seen a decline throughout the year. And that one of the reasons for that was the once the pandemic hit, a lot of our Consumers, specifically the low value consumers, moved back to their villages, and we do not have still 4 gs coverage in that market. That Resulted in the revenue generating base coming down. Those customers have started coming back into the cities and that's seen the effect On the improvement in revenue generating base. 2nd is, I think, new products being launched by us in that market, which are data packs, Which has resulted in improvement in ARPU coming in, which is the effect of basically elasticity of the higher data volumes, which have been given. And third factor is the voice revenue, which had declined because of the Sporadic shutdowns happening in that market has also started recovering. So we've seen positive development, And we expect that to continue. But as I said, our biggest constraint at this point in time is the spectrum availability Because as you know, the pricing, the realization or yields in Nepal are probably one of the highest. And as we bring that down to be able to be more competitive, we require to give more data and that's where the spectrum and availability Puts a constraint. Yes. Okay. Thanks, Vivek. We are fortunate to have Adnan on the call as well. Adnan, on the question of more provisions, do we expect more provisions from the 2nd tier customers in the year to come? Yes. So yes, thank you, Yaron. So I think the provisions that were made primarily the Tier 2 customers in Cambodia and It's done, right. So primarily those that did not survive the pandemic. And of course, one of the Tier 2 customer license was actually revoked Okay, Bodea, right. So we still do have operations with some Tier 2 customers remaining. However, these Tier 2 customers are part of a bigger conglomerate, right? So we do not expect any more provisions coming from the Tier 2 Customer, because it's either part of a bigger conglomerate or they have a corporate guarantee that stand by against the debt, right? So we think that we've taken the hit all in 2020, and we do not expect any more coming from the Tier two customer this year. Thanks, Alain. Yes, as Alain had articulated, the 2nd tier customers, the unfortunate Turn of events where the license got revoked. I mean, we wouldn't ordinarily, you wouldn't have expected that to happen. Now at the same time, It's a provision that's made. The team is consciously trying to arrive at a settlement so that we can recover some of the Provisions that we've made. Since we are on this topic, Phuong, maybe before anyone asks a question on the Myanmar situation. As you know, We have a business in Myanmar since Adnan is on a roll here. We have 1800 towers in business in Myanmar. The good news is that the military seems to want to make sure foreign direct investors remain in the country. Business goes on as usual. And because e dotco is critical, if you like, for the telecommunications infrastructure, we well, I personally don't think that there's going to be any impact. Well, not in the immediate term, nothing we can see so far. Still early days, But we are trading it rather carefully to make sure that our business remain intact. Of course, from an operational point of view, it's slightly limited. But maybe, Arlan, anything you want to convey to the participants today? Yes. I think from the operation standpoint, of course, I mean, there is Internet disconnection, right, from 1 a. M. To 9 a. M, right? I mean, that's and there's a curfew from 8 p. M. To 4 a. M. That's been implemented in Myanmar today. I think The biggest challenge in Myanmar today are probably what you call the CDM, right, the Civil Disobedience Movement, Where you see the civilians and people are going out to demonstrate, right? So and that to a certain extent have actually The public service, right, being doctors, nurses, bank or even the customs office and all that, right? So operationally today, There's not much impact to us. We are still keeping our SLA and all that. However, we can see that in the coming time, there will be a little bit Slow down in terms of rollout and all that given that the fact that permits and all that is going to be tough. And I think one of the other areas that we're also seeing a little bit of delay is the clearance of equipment at the custom area site as well. Because Today, you can see that customer even not coming into office, right? So we are monitoring the situation. It's manageable at this point in But I think, yes, we'll need to see how things develop over time. Okay. Thank you so much, guys, for those answers. Can I just go back to Ansell right with regards to the question on the EBITDA margin for this year? Is it sustainable at And maybe one more question if I can explain to Datuk, how much dividend per share can we expect for this year? Well, I'll try to answer your margin question as well. I think as Vivek said, it really depends on the Availability of the L900. So the team is working really hard to try to make sure that We get the spectrum in time because as you would appreciate, rolling it out is another challenge, yes? So 57%, 56.9% for 2020 is a quite remarkable achievement under the circumstances. But we think around I don't want to speculate or give a number, but it hinges really on the availability of the spectrum. Yes. I mean, I think what I would add is that the cost of operations in In Nepal, I'm not that high, and which allows us to hold on to a fairly good margins and also the fact that ILD does give [SPEAKER RAMON ALVAREZ PEDROSA:] From margins to that business, clearly, the dependency on high margins is on the growth of core Revenue. And if that positive direction which we are seeing continues to happen, then we should We see a high 50% margin remaining. So I think that's really and that, as Dato said, It's also quite dependent on the availability of spectrum. And so far as dividend is concerned, Phuong, We are trying to move transition towards a DPR as opposed to DP sorry, a DPS regime rather than a DPR regime. For 2020, it's 74% of adjusted underlying Patami, Compare that at 86%, 85% in 2019, 2018 respectively. In terms of the quantum per share, We certainly will make an effort to improve on the $0.07 for the year for 2020. Yes, directionally, That's where we're heading towards the $0.20 for 2024. So expect a better $0.10 7 2020. And of course, this depends on performance for 2021. Again, we think that we were asked that Same well, in a way, the same question in terms of our outlook performance for 2021. As I've said, the challenges are still there. We like to think that the business is sustainable. So far as the telco industry is concerned. Okay. Understood. Thank you so much, Dato, Vivek and the team. Thanks, Fokyo. Thank you, Matt. Thanks, Fok. We move on to the next questions coming through from Alex from M. Okay. Thanks very much, Claire. I have a couple of questions. Thanks, Tato, for holding this session. One is regarding your CapEx, you've indicated that you're looking at RMB 6,500,000,000. But last year, your CapEx guidance was RMB 6.6 R6 1,000,000,000 and you've only spent about R5.3 billion. So including your R6.5 billion, is that R1.3 billion left over that you did not And you're bringing it into this year. And is there any likelihood that this will likely be deferred as well? Well, again, the challenges is from a rollout point of view, the physical limitations that we face, yes, it's not so much of development. But because like I said, it's trying to balance it because of the network demands that's been placed on our network, yes? So the capacity, we need to continue to enter that and we might need to invest. Yes, mathematically, the delta What was guidance that was given last year, it seemed like a lot of it was deferred into this year. The guidance we're giving this year includes some of that, Yes, because we expect some savings from the procurement exercise we are undergoing undertaking. We should be able to conclude that. Vivek? Well, I think that was right. I mean, it's very difficult to say how much is really the deferment to the next year And what is really new CapEx for next year? But that said, I think this is on a BAU basis And which does include our continuing investment in non CCD as well as ex Java. So I think that's how the CapEx has been built. But there are still uncertainties hanging around what could be the requirement of CapEx in Malaysia, for example, to meet the requirements of Gendela or the early shutdown of 3 gs, right? So that we don't know at this point in time. We also are Looking at the implications of the merger happening in Indonesia and what would that mean in terms of the CapEx requirement, So this CapEx, what we projected of $6,500,000,000 is to meet the growth numbers [SPEAKER MOHAMMED ABU GHAZALEH:] We talked about a low single digit in 2021 to support that. If there are things going to change Depending on how these two markets specifically move, we will have to revise the CapEx numbers. Alex, So on CapEx, we're trying to delineate the CapEx for e.co. So in the 6.5 Number, there's about 860 that's attributable to EdoCo. Now why I would like to differentiate that moving forward, and you See this in the Q1 2021 results later on when we do this same session for in May. Because EdoCo CapEx, as you would appreciate, is very different in the sense that the minute they commission a tower, revenue kicks in. So it's good that Iroko has a high CapEx number because it's revenue generating, yes, contractually. So it's just like trying to make sure that we are on the same page in understanding the nature of the CapEx. Yes, but that's more a place marker for a placeholder for our Q1 sort of presentation later on. Okay. Could you give us a further breakdown of the 6,500,000,000 like how much is Cellcom and the other regional operations? Sure. So Cellcom, we are looking at around 1.1. We are looking at around 2,000,000,000 these are all ringgit, right? €2,000,000,000 for Indonesia. We are looking at around close to €650,000,000 for Dialog. Or Dialog, Around close to a €1,000,000,000 coming in or €900,000,000 in ruby. Smart would be around €370,000,000 In sell around $300,000,000 e.co, as Dato said, around $860,000,000 and balances for others, which includes Platforms for ADS as well as CapEx required for our digital lab. So that's broadly the breakup of the $6,500,000,000 Yes, okay. And regarding your depreciation, since you already We turned down your 3 gs infrastructure by about RMB600 1,000,000 last year. Could you give us a bit of guidance? Are you looking at single digit increase in terms of your depreciation this year given that you have written down quite substantial Yes. Firstly, Alex, quite semantics And you and I are not the accountants in the room, but I'd rather use the word accelerate the depreciation rather than write down, Just technicality more than anything else, because the assets are still in use. Customers are still using the 3 gs network. We still need to migrate the 3 gs customers to 4 gs, and that also means our VoLTE licenses and capacity again. And concern sometimes is that we still have a lot of customers on Puji. I know it's a separate topic, but that has a bearing on the CapEx we need to spend. So far as single digit increase in depreciation in 2021, Deepak? No. So I think as Dato said, it's first of all, It's acceleration of depreciation and it's not a very large part of the overall base for us because a lot of 3 gs CapEx was already Depreciate it. And new CapEx is largely coming for 4 gs, and some of the markets is pretty new. That said, also accelerated depreciation has Short term negative impact because it prepones so it's not a write off. So it prepones the charge into the P and L. So 2021, we will see Some impact of higher depreciation coming in because of the acceleration, which has happened. That said, I think we do not see fundamentally very difference in the otherwise run rate of depreciation For us, but going forward from 2022 onwards, we should see the positive effect coming in for this acceleration. Okay, great. Thanks. Can we go into Cellcom? I'm just looking at the cost, just going a bit more granular on The expenses, I noticed for Q4, your direct expenses and your network costs came down significantly. Was there any kind of adjustments there? What sort of language should we be looking at? Jennifer, should I take that question? Yes, sure. If I may start, I think with the direct expenses, this is driven by a couple of things. First is the when we especially in terms of roaming and all that, when it actually goes away during the MCO, Relative as compared to what is in the prior year, of course, the number continue to come down. And in addition to that, The device sale is also one of the key driver in terms of the direct cost. So having said that, The direct cost in essence has actually continued to come down, mainly driven by the top line actually. But on the other hand, like the network cost, there's quite a couple of things that has actually happened during Q4. There are some 2 ups that we have actually done in Q4. But having said that, when we look at the network cost, it continued to trend down as we sit. Whilst the traffic continued to increase, we are finding new ways to actually try to fulfill the service while maintaining the cost that we have we actually have in level cost. Hopefully that answers the question, Alex. Yes. Okay. That's wonderful. And could we go into Ancel regarding your spectrum allocation? Could you just let us know why what is the reason for the delay? Was it due to the MCO and the COVID that's why the government is delaying in the Any award of this spectrum or is there any particular company specific reason the government is You are delaying the awards. No, I think the challenge right now is there is no government because as you remember, I can't remember exact date. As you recall, the Prime Minister dissolved the Parliament. This is probably November, I think. Yes. Maybe Doctor. Hans, are you on the line, Doctor. Hans? Yes. So essentially, there is no government. And I think so far as the So far as the administration is concerned, I think they will be waiting for a new minister to be appointed in charge of the ministry before they take any action. Hans, do you want to add on to that? Yes, you're right. Actually, it is spectrum that has already been secured via an auction and it's an allocation and Spectrum and Technology Neutrality approval, which is pending and we are right, pending the administration And having permanent decision makers, it's getting delayed. Yes. Okay. Thank you very much. That's all for me for now. Thanks. Thanks, Alex. Thanks, Alex. Okay, let's move on to next questions coming through from Prem from Macquarie. Prem, please go ahead. Hi, thank you for the opportunity. A few questions from me. First of all, with regards to Cellcom, With the unlimited plans that we have launched, what are the learnings that we have got from this plan? And where is the network in relation to the experiences that we're having with the unlimited data? Should we not be Accelerating CapEx on that front. That's one. Secondly, with regards to GENDELA, How far along have we progressed from a Cellcom perspective? And again, where are the pain points? And how does that change your viewpoints with regards to the progress of SOUCOM's transformation, etcetera? We need to, Prem. Yes, I think it's already gone on very long. I'm not challenging you because I thought you said you had a couple, so I thought it would be 3 or 4. Anyway, sorry, A couple of semantics. It's very deep coming from Cram. Yes, good question. Thank you, Brent. Yes, the Unlimited, we launched it since start to catch up during the middle of last year. It's really is one of the product that speaks to the consumers. I think as a result, in the second Throughout the year, we increased about 306,000 customers. But on the second half alone, we actually added about 650,000 Customers on to the network, which is something that we are still our network is still able to handle because We as you know, we have 11,500 sites which are handling this and we are doing a lot of network transformation to cater for both the added subscribers as well as the increase in utilization of the demand because of the MCO. So we have we are progressing very well on 3 prongs. Number 1 is on the upgrading itself on the network The network upgrades to add more equipment, that's about 2,000 sites that we sorry, I'm sorry, about 2,700 sites that we're doing. We're also doing optimization of cluster based optimization. But I think one of the most important Well, upgrades that we're doing is to deploy more L900 spectrum to build For a better coverage as well as the capacity. So that's some of the key learnings. But some of the challenge that we may have is Because of the high increase in demand, we're also seeing possible substitution of all our mobile network is being used as a Primary access to the Internet in the home. So this is something that we are learning and we are going through a process to manage that. That's one on the undimeter. On the GENDELA, of course, we are working very closely with the regulators trying to meet The Gendela targets, and we are doing that. We have incorporated that into our plant. As you know, both Gendela has both our own plant plus some of the USP Plans through the callbacks and also through the Zone 3 and Zone 4. So this is being executed. So far, we are on track to look at both from the coverage perspective as well as upgrading the network to reach the speed That's being demanded by MCMC. So we are working on that. But one good thing that we may Be able to perhaps a bit of an advantage because we already have one of the widest coverage in the country. So the incremental coverage that's being As to meet the Jindale target probably is just a little bit more incremental. So I hope that answer your questions there, Prem. Yes. Just to follow-up on the Sorry, Prem. Maybe I can just ask Idahab to clarify a bit. Our average consumption These days is about 22 gig, yes, Edam. So but just so you know, Prem, we see outliers, some consumers consuming A lot more, significantly more, a couple of times more than the 22 gig average. Ida, maybe you want to explain what are the things we're doing internally to try to manage that as well. Yes. Yes. Yes, we do see some of these trends that we are Managing, as I mentioned just now, how some of the wireless network is being used to substitute the fiber network. So we're seeing some Trends on somehow is not we also doesn't know how the utilization goes as high as that. It's possibly that tethering and all that is being used. So we are looking at some of this, what would you call it, abusive behavior of the network because the moment these abusive behaviors are there, Taking the capacity away from the rest of the people who needs who paid for the service. So those are something that we are working on as well. Go on, Prem. Yes, thanks. Couple of things, I mean, the one thing which worries me is the L900 Because we've learned the lessons in the past of using low frequencies just to get the coverage We need to have the user experience impacted. So I hope that's not the be all and end all Of the network. But when it comes back to GENDELA, I think the regulator had speed requirements But that really boils down to the fiberization of sites, etcetera. How far along have we got? And Any problems with achieving those goals now that we have agreed that telcos will be the 4th utility? We'll be there. Yes, sorry. Let me address the sorry, the No, no, I was just I didn't hear the last bit that Prem said. Okay. Telcos will be the 4th utility. Okay. Yes, yes. Okay. So on the L900 prem, Yes, L900 is to extend the coverage. I think that's 1, but L900 is not the only band that we use for the 4 gs. L900 is complemented by our the baseband is on the 1800, and we have also migrated about 10 megahertz from 3 gs of 2,100 into LTE. And we have now using also 20 megahertz of L26, so the whole spectrum of band. But the L900, instead of just a coverage, I think you probably know that the spectrum propensity that's actually would improve The indoor penetration. So it will also improve the customer experience inside their homes and also inside the building. So We are not using L900 is do all and all win all. It is to complement the existing other bands That we have as well as improve our end to end, our indoor building. When it comes to fiber, it's not just Steve, in our strategy, it's not just about fiberizing every size. Yes, of course, as we grow. But another Element that we look at is the single hop to fiber. I think that's another important element that we need to look at because we do have Short distance, high capacity microarray that's able to provide the backbone or the backhaul that we need. So if you're looking at our fiberization, we have achieved more than 35% of our sites are actually Fiberized with another 40% plus with a single hop to fiber. So in total, we're looking at about 75% to 76% of our sites actually has a single hop, if not directly fiberized. So that will be where we are in terms of hybridization. Now the fact that we are now or will become or will be categorized as the 4th utility, that's very much welcome because that will help not just about the fiberization, But also the ease of us getting more sites and the right sites to get the best coverage. I hope that, that address your question. Sure. Perfect. Thank you very much. Okay. Thanks, Brett. I think we have one question coming through from Arthur from Citi. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Can you hear me? Yes. Yes. Okay. Yes, thanks. Sorry, just to clarify on the dividend, how do you think about near term dividend? I know you have a $0.20 target by 2024. So I'm just wondering the decision to reduce the payout. Your free cash flow is higher, your gearing is lower. Why the move to a lower payout and DPS I'm just curious about how you look at the Yes. Yes. Well spotted, Arthur. Actually, in the actual, if you like, Adiata 5.0 strategy, there's a symbol which says greater than 0.20 dollars per share. My team just gets a bit challenged to put the symbol there, but I continuously think that It is a function of our cash flow at company level, and that means streaming up dividends from the OpCo, number 1. Number 2, availability of distributable reserves at Aziata itself, the company. So we are working with all those, if you like, constraints right now. But we like to think that if all goes as planned, We like to do more than $0.20 per share. So it's not really a function of I mean, the DPR is a guidance, Yes. But we like to put the targets on the dividend per share that we hope to reward shareholders. Tati, if I may add. Yes, please. I think one of the reason, Arthur, why I showed that last slide in terms of how the cash gets generated is To give a visibility of strong cash flow generation, which should in a way going forward link up to the dividend, I think our challenge at the moment is a lot of cash gets locked in to our countries because of either local regulations Or restrictions on dividend payout. So I think we are trying to deal with those capital issues, Which should, going forward, help us to accumulate that cash or the earnings coming through the form of reserves Into the dividend paying company to be able to give higher dividend. That said, I think we are also cautious of the fact that there are still headwinds In some of the markets, I mean, you know what's happening in Malaysia, for example, Jendela, we also have this the merger potential Coming up in Indonesia, so we also want to be careful in terms of how do we Position ourselves to meet these requirements going forward. So I think as we go along during the year, we would be much more clear in of how we are going to be declaring dividend going forward. But that said, I think the traction or the direction is still being maintained To get to $0.20 plus dividend by 2024. Yes. I mean to Vivek's point, yes, as you would appreciate in certain markets, Classic one is Indonesia, for example, they may be generating a lot of cash, but dividends can only be paid out of the current year's profits, It's not out of retained earnings. Then of course, you have withholding tax issues in certain jurisdictions. Still trying to figure out How to extract, how to stream up this cash and dividends up to Axiata Corporate Center. Good news is we have already placed if put in place financial guardrails, dividend payout ratios for each of co Capital structure sort of boundaries as it were, we want to avoid lazy balance sheets so that the companies can borrow. And of course, For each of these, of course, having to borrow, there are constraints also on the single customer limits, liquidity issue in those respective Markets that we operate in. So a host of variables, if you like, that we need to look opco by opco So that we can optimize and stream up as much as possible in the years to come to pay a better dividend, yes? So it's not A question of moving to a lower payout, Arthur, just to be clear. Understood. So if I can just squeeze one M and A related question. Given 5 gs has expanded in Malaysia, do you think M and A is still possible within the space? Do you think M and A is possible? 5 gs. 5 gs. 5 gs. Our network is desirable. Yes. Very good question. Actually and until and unless the we have better clarity on the construct Of the SPV, the commercial terms of the SPV, it's debatable. Now having said that, I personally think it's still what you might call it, makes sense, yes, for the industry We need to consolidate as well because notwithstanding the number of players. It's just that if the intention of the government is to Create infra companies to provide wholesale network capacity, then MNOs become MVNOs. Now that's a different game altogether that the mobile operators needs to figure out. But again, this is really Going to be driven by the specifics, if you like, of the SPV that has been announced. Got it. Okay. Thank you very much. Okay. Thank you, Asaf. There doesn't seem to be any further question at this point in time. Perhaps, Natur, you have any closing remarks. Sure. Well, again, thank you for participating this afternoon. We like think that the 2020 performance, the underlying performance is credible. Under the circumstances, we continue to monitor the developments In the various markets so far as regulatory challenges are concerned, and insofar as Malaysia is concerned, We are closely tracking the performance of the Cellcom team. No pressure to Idaham, Jennifer and the rest, so that we can Sustain the good results from the 3rd Q4 in months quarters years to come. Thank you. Okay, that concludes our call today. Thank you for your participation. You may leave the call now. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Yigal. Thanks, Alan, Jennifer. Thank you.