Earnings Call: Q4 2019

Feb 21, 2020

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Axiata Group's 4th Quarter 20 results briefing. Throughout the presentation, all participants are in a listen only mode. There will be a presentation followed by a question and answer session. Firstly, 3 housekeeping reminders. Please mute your phone when during the presentation and kindly avoid using wireless headsets. Also note that the call duration will over to your speaker today. Tanshree Jamaluddin, President and Group CEO. Please go ahead. Thank you. My name is Jamal, and the group's CEO. Thanks for joining us for the fourth quarter 20 the results or the full year financial results. Go straight to slide 1 or slide 4 in this case. Basically, basically developed the, KFC messages. The first one, I think you've heard, many times we've talked about shifting back in end of 2017, end of 2018, we launched the concept feature this year, while we want to, still grow, gain market share, but our main focus shifted towards profitability So as a result of that, while merchant labor is growing, but EBITDA has profit has dropped So you can see from the first point, EBITDA double digit at 10.9%, and revenue grew 2.3%. But if you take out our device, it actually grew more than 5%. All of course are not possible I am especially pleased with the performance of XL at Rovi, both had double digit revenue and double digit EBITDA growth. If you look at ROIC and so the total reach of these 2 companies, our IPO, of course, our ROIC proved to $6..7. Now we we didn't have, of course, tickets of private. 1 of that was the introduction of higher taxes for Bangladesh, that white population tune of 100,000,000,000 more than 100,000,000,000 rig it, just over the last 6 months. The back to what I've seen earlier, despite the shape of our focus on profit, we still maintain or gain market share. All of the 6 operators, the mobile operators, 4 gates significantly above your share, including the big ones, one flight below and the other one below the pocket which will explain later on. Well, in fact, they the next slide basically explain those 2. We didn't have challenging environment in Glacier and in Nepal, but specifically in South America itself, circle of revenue, obviously, impacted by the, few other points as shown here, but it's very important to note that we have decided not to go big on device. So we've considered the sale of device last year. And, of course, that led to the, revenue, declined for We've had a lot of operational roadblocks as you all perhaps advise, including our ability to expand because of the spectrum of which was supposed to be given to us, early last year, but keep postponing, which has resulted in us in a labor who we we don't want to roll up too many sites because we believe we will get the spectrum, but because the issue at CGT got held up. And, finally, last week, we managed to finally get the spectrum that we had asked for. That will materially change our ability to compete. That's the good news. The concept opportunity is, because of that, we, deliver cost excellence, but later on, we'll show you operational excellence that just got cost. But in this context, it's about cost where we generated savings of 1,300,000,000 rig in, and that's by itself is, slightly higher than our expectations. And that led to 100 of our increase in the media budget. Our ROIC is actually a little improved quite a lot actually. To 6.7% of our higher seats, twenty 16. We exceeded, 2 of the 3 hair like KPIs, EBITDA grew 10.9% versus KPI 5 to 8% ROIC 6.7% versus KPI 5 0.2to5.6percent. Our revenue on the surface is below our KPI2.3percent compared to KPI of 3% but like I said, X device, it grew actually 5.1% versus our 4% target of 0 point 4 percent. We also announced a dividend of $9.05 with 4¢, interim dividends, and special dividends of 0.5¢. If you look at the next slide, Slide 5, you could see that it's in the loss ratio of the shipping gear, the best way to elaborate is to see what happened to all the out of course. In this case, the 7 of course, minus and sell, as you can see, almost had a positive growth in EBITDA, but albeit as free cash flow. It's interesting to note that, 1,000,000 of that, especially like Excel, roby, smartmedia dot go all delivered double digit growth in EBITDA double digit growth in profitability and double digit growth in free cash flow. With that, I pass to my group CFO, Vivek, to go into good detail of the results. Very good afternoon to all of you. Let me start with the first slide, which is on the reported results. The reports of the results are based on the MFRS 16. After including the MFRS 16 impact. And this does take into account some of the burn offs during the year. 2019. So if you look at revenue for the year on reported numbers grew by 2.9%, our EBITDA grew by 27.4% but significant part of that is coming from the MFRS 16 impact. As you know, the accounting now expires part of the leases could be taken down below the EBITDA line. Pazami for the year moved up from minus $4,700,000,000 to around $1,400,000,000. Now the exceptional items in the reported reserves include the sale of disposal of embed, which is around $113,000,000, divestments of some of the digital businesses, which is $367,000,000 and disposal of Dights, IDR rights, which is around 96,000,000. But more important is the next slide, which is on the underlying performance for 2019. Quarter on quarter, 1.5%, 2.3%. If I exclude the devices because our device failed in 2019 was much lower than 2018, excluding devices, the WV grew by 5.1%. All OpCo showed positive contribution on revenue, except in Cellcom, which was minus 3.9 for service revenue, but on the overall, including devices, it was around minus 8.9% and NCELL was minus 4.3% and minus 4.3% coming from core mobile, though ILD also continued to slide, which is in line with what was expected, as people move from voice call into the WhatsApp Internet calling EBITDA, a very strong performance for the year, at 10.9% growth, I think, for arriving at 9,300,000,000 EBITDA double digit EBITDA growth coming from XL, Roby, Smart and E. OpExcel delivered highest revenue and EBITDA ever. Cost excellence program, if you recall, we have put down 5,000,000,000 program by back in 2017. That continues to deliver in line with what the plans were. And we had delivered 1,300,000,000 of cost saving during the cost saving and avoidance during 2019, split fiftyfifty between CapEx and OpEx, And consequent to the factor that the OpEx savings continued, we kept more or less of a cost flat, resulting in 3 percentage improvement in EBITDA margin to 37.90 percent. Partami remained flat compared to last year, at 10,000,000 dollars, $25,000,000. The factors, which lowered down the Fatami, even though we had a strong EBITDA performance, is being the elimination of M1, which was contributing around $112,000,000 last year, which we didn't get because of the sale. And we were also impacted, as mentioned in my last call also that the impact of the new taxes, which were introduced in Bangladesh which impacted around $100,000,000 to $106,000,000 and M and A expenses, which were on account of the merger discussions we had with Telenor, of around nearly 50,000,000. So Excluding that, we would have seen around a 30% improvement in profit margin in profits in 2019. On a normalized basis, which is after factoring in the MFRS 16 impact, The normalized potami is $960,000,000. If I go to the next slide, which basically shows the waterfall, between 2018 2019. EBITDA contributed to an increase in profit by 891,000,000 mainly coming from XL, and E.com, around 400,000,000 from XL, around $370,000,000 from Robe and around $160,000,000 from E.co. Digital Businesses lower losses compared to 2018, contributed around 53,000,000. Depreciation continues to, impacted by the investment which we've been making in our our infrastructure, which is $235,000,000, our finance cost of $114,000,000 increase is mainly coming from Excel where in 2018, we took a decision to move to local borrowing instead of or expiring. So what doesn't get reflected here is the impact, positive impact on the ForEx but because the local borrowing rates are higher than USD borrowing rates, around nearly 130,000,000 is an impact in Excel. $162,000,000 is mainly M1, which I talked about, and then $387,000,000 taxes largely coming from the increased taxes in Bangladesh and also taxes in Indonesia, which is because of expiry of the carryforward losses coming back from year 201415. And then, so that's basically broadly the waterfall between the 1,000,000,000 Potami in 2018. To slightly above, 1022 for Tommy in 2019. When I look at the next slide, which talking about Fatami on the actual reported basis. The waterfall shows, 5 77 which is mainly coming from the disposal of MR. Disposal divestment of ADS non core businesses and ceiling of IDR rights, which is around close to 100,000,000,000. And rest is all, the others and the MFRS 16 adjustment. If I go to the next slide, I think good, from a CapEx intensity standpoint, fairly flat compared to last year, 25% but a good development on the free cash flow, which has moved up, on a pre MFRS basis, to around 4,300,000,000 and OSCF up by around close to $1,100,000,000, which is 7% of the revenue So I go to the next slide, I think we this slide is just to explain how our efforts on cost has been impacting the profitability and overall cost. Overall, on a BAU basis, our costs remain more or less flat, in fact, marginally lower. And some of the increases on a BAU is mostly coming out of, for example, in Excel, we did change the managed service agreement, which has slight impact in 2019. In addition to that, we've added around $286,000,000 of costs during the year for new sites in mostly in XL and, Bangladesh. So if you look at, after the new size, cost increase is around 1.5% net against that 5.1% increase in the service or revenue excluding devices. Next slide, the balance sheet remains fairly resilient with the gross debt to EBITDA on a like to like basis. Coming down from the around 2.3 times to 1.8 times. We sit here around $300,000,000 of dollar debt during the year. The balance sheet in terms of hedging and fixed floating remains fairly in line with our plans. And company continues to have a reasonable cash of around 4,200,000,000 in the books. I'll just cover while the presentation has, all the opcos, but I'll just focus on 3 opcos but free to take questions on the others at the Q And A session. First one is the Cellcom, where we did see improvement on the profit as well as free cash flow, despite the market perform environment remaining pretty, pretty muted and impact of lower termination rates from January 2019. As well as wholesale revenue. If you recall, we did have a commercial negotiation on wholesale deal with with TM on VB and which did have a negative impact for us around 160,000,000 during 2019. So this chart basically shows while we do see a 3.9% growth service revenue. But if you look at the prepaid and postpaid, we are pretty much flat compared to 2018. And if I add even the MPNO, which is done better than 2018, we would be plus 1% service revenue growth in 2019. EBITDA, consequent to some of the efforts being made on the cost side, showed an improvement of 7.8 percent and a free cash flow of over $1,000,000,000. Our profit showed significantly improvement, but last year, if you recall, we did take a write off of some of the assets. If I exclude the write off or restructuring charges, the profit has improved for Cellcom by around 14%. If I go to the next one, which is on XN, I think it's, I'm sure, There's already a lot known about the Excel performance because they did declare their results sometime back. But I think we are very happy to see significant improvement in, Excel performance. And this is along all lines. Revenue, 9.3% growth if we take service revenue 15% growth year on year and our debt are contributing to around 28% growth, EBITDA 17% growth, moving up from 37% EBITDA margin to 39 also EBITDA margin and improvement in free cash flow of $1,700,000,000 going up to $1,900,000,000 and profits, which has turned around from a loss last year to a profit of 713000000000 idea in 2019. And so the excess did declare some dividend in 2019 after a while. Roby, again excellent performance from Roby, on all lines, 9.7% growth in service revenue. If you take out devices, it's around nearly 10% growth. EBITDA solid performance of 42.9 percent growth in EBITDA, taking margins up from 24.5% to 32% and a free cash flow improvement from negative to around nearly 10,000,000 But I'm just a caveat on that. Part of free cash flow improvement is also coming from the fact because of the restrictions by the regulator of did not, we were not able to acquire some of the equipments, which has been, a deferred to 2020, So there's been an impact because of the lower CapEx relative to what was planned in 20 'nineteen. And profit, maybe showed profit for the year at $799,000,000. Last year, we did get benefit in Gobi because of the sale of Tower which was more an internal transaction between Goby and the E.co. If I exclude that, then it was more than 100% improvement in profits for 2019. So, I'll not go through all the other top notes, maybe just touch upon the, digital businesses quickly. I think digital businesses As we said earlier, our focus is being to turn these businesses profitable, which it's 'nineteen, twenty twenty one is what we've been targeting. So ADA business, which is our digital marketing business, did turn profitable in 19 will be a bad positive, boost continues to do well, going on GPV as well as acquisition of merchants and the users, APGATE, which is our digital platform business, had a bit of a struggle in 2019. And that's a business we are relooking at and restructuring some of the product as well as the restructuring, the focus around this business. I think that's it from ERC, on the, operations. If I can go to slide number 20, which is on our achievements against the KPI. So I'm happy to say, on EBITDA and Roy, we did much better than what were our KPIs. EBITDA, we had set 5% to 8% growth ended up with 10.9% or like we said, 5.2% to 5.6% ended up with an achievement of 6.7% CapEx below, but partly also because of the deferred CapEx in Bangladesh, while the revenue target been lower mainly because of the devices. If I exclude devices, we did grow at 5.1% compared to our internal target of 4.4%. Coming to my last slide, which is on proposed dividend. As country mentioned, we are declaring dividend of 86% which is in line with last year as dividend payout ratio, which translates into $0.04 In addition, a special dividend of 5.5¢, which is basically sharing, gains from gains from the sale of M1. So this translates around 40% of the gain, from M1. Which translates to overall dividend of 9.5%. So that's it for me. Thank you. Okay? Let me then quickly touch upon before I hand it over to Danshi is the, you'll see, headline KPI. For 2020. Revenue growth, 3.5to4.5, EBITDA growth of 4 5.5% and ROIC at 5.5% to 6% and CapEx pretty much in line with what we expected this year. At $6,600,000,000. And this is all on post MSRS 16 small, we would report all on post MRRS 16. I'll now go through the risks and opportunities available for you to have a look at it. I'll hand it over to Tanshi to talk about division and we'll get that 3.0. Thank you Vivek. In the interest of time, I know some of you have to move on to the next presentation today from another company. So I will go through very quickly. 25, basically, I've got, yeah, since before, just to reiterate our focus on the 3 businesses, We have the digital businesses, how we evolve a mobile centric company to convergence digital operators, and being number 1 and number 2 and also being the top 1, top 2 performance in all the respective markets. And in many cases, maybe not year, but not every year, but if you look at the last many years indeed, we are we have been really the stock performer in all the rest of the markets. I'm on a digital business test, so far so good, it's both in ADA and measured by, leaving something just very quiet on a ticket, but we are still very much on track. And last but not least, the infrastructure company, the E.co, maybe they did not go through the detail, but you received the number from the previous chart, it's double digit revenue growth, double digit EBITDA and double digit profit growth and is moving extremely well. On the next slide, it's set to give you a preview of what are the most important steps you want to do over the next 2 to 3 years. I, again, in the interest of time, I won't have try to go through all of that. Look at the, the left side of the chart, the focus of course is financial performance, very important. We want to improve our profit and free cash flow. Not without sacrificing too much of the, our market share. So that's so far in the last 2 years, we have been doing exactly that. The next 7, 6 items is all about how do we build execution for the future, Again, it's a time I will not go through all of that, but just to give you a flavor, of course, you know, a basic transformation of all the outflows, that we have to do with the earlier. Operation to us something that is valued was going to be more. It's going to be the new DNA for us. We also reallocate how we may get you operating companies, given our operational excellence, that we are embarking on. And while digitalization analytics helps we've seen it, everyone. So for Able Safety, but we are now very confident that it can become our biggest depreciated by 2023. So we are not talking about as good on the rest, but we're talking about feedback in the respective markets and maybe on a global status. Deep grown areas, especially enterprise we are working on to some extent, a major hope, opportunities. And of course, we have to do some work on organization. To gear up for the future. Well, at least we have talked about that, something that has been done to materially fail our industry structure, if that's our business is the data treaty consolidation. And related to that is how do we optimize our portfolio within the group? So the next chart, I want to try to elaborate just to be afraid of all that we are moving a bit beyond by touch. We do not believe in full centralization, but we believe that there's a sweet spot between where we are today and centralization, given the fact that with the concept of operational excellence, a lot of synergy can and still have to be done, especially IT that will procurement. I think we are done average job so far. I think we have work going to be done and we have kind of strike the best popular, what we call a collective breed, where we get the CTOs and the CROs to collectively come up with the best design parameters come up with back bookable, how you procure the best generation of IP and so on and so forth. Again, maybe perhaps during our sessions later on we can go into positive. Let me first let me go through the 3 digit announcement that we have made uptime in January. First, of course, you've heard the the announcement of the Deputy's group CEO. And we have also, declared or announced upfront that he will be GCO by January 1, 2021. So the next ten months or so, there'll be a 9 transition plan where we will make sure that all the stakeholders and all the operational business operations all have been will be done, quite meticulously to ensure a very smooth transition. We also announced that, Doctor Hans who has been the regional CEO to take care of all the telecom business, 36 of that. And give us the focus on IT and network. At the same time, trying to balance between debt and what is best commercially we have asked the CEO of Smart to work at H. G. We'll start with the current job in the next 2 years. To, really look at how we run our IT network. So, network is, sorry, autonomous fluid. Who is the CEO of 1, is, you know, don't worry about technical capability, benefiting very nicely between commercial and technology. So the GT, the CTO and the CIO or the group level will report to him. And of course, in this more detail, I'd like to give a bit more detail on the that is added background. I won't be through all of this. You probably don't hear it already by now. As you know, you want the group MPSCO of Group. He left at the right size before all the soy is about plus. Good timing. And also before that, he was a CFO of Ternaga. So I I think he can talk by himself on, but, I guess, he's the best size bound to pass through that. He's like, give you a bit flavor than what he tends to do. Thank you, Danshi. Hi, good evening. On the next slide 30, I guess, the advantage I have is that I've been on the board of Aljeta since November 24th November 2016. And and what I have embarked to do since 24th January, so that's 29, 28 days ago. It's tough to engage with all the staff in the various companies. We've done all the top holes with all the staff, including emissions, Sri Lanka, if you had to do it once in Nepal, Cambodia as well as Bangladesh. But I think what's key is to explain to the staff how the transition between country and myself is going to pace over the next 10 or so months. Of course, the other bids that I'm planning to do in the next 2 months is the various state of the engagements, need regulators, keys to shareholders, research and needs to declare, we'll organize some several meetings with yourself. In the next 2 months. And of course, the focus areas is deep diving into the work that is the main pillars of Aljiazha 5.0. Transformation, yes, there will be a few companies that I am particularly keen on the needle movers, no privacy, getting actually Cellcom and XL. Edcell is on a good trajectory, whereas Cellcom needs a bit more focus given the issues surrounding its businesses. Implementation is key like hope things in life operational excellence. I'll send you through the 5 pillars on the next slide. Now, terms of organization, one of the boxes I take, if you like, is the strength capability and commitment of the team at Argentina notwithstanding that, Danshan will review the organization in a deeper manner to see there are tweaks that we need to make to deliver as it is a 5.0 over the next 3 years. Now, of course, optimizing the portfolio, that's we have, I'll touch a bit of that in terms of the will be listing. And in Safari, it's a recent compliance framework, I think it's very important that I have a good understanding of the risk and what makes the organization take to better serve the organization. So far as the combined framework is concerned, I think some of you may be aware there is a new provision in the MACC Act that comes into effect on 1st June. So the board country of myself, we want to make sure that we have the adequate procedures, Institute across the organization. Moving on to the next slide. Now, as Sunu mentioned, just now, I think the misnomer about operational excellence is that we're discussing costs. Now, the team is to become a lead force producer relative to the customer promise and customer experience. So, it is about constructing a balance between what would be a sustainable cost structure, making sure that the costs or the OpEx spread is on the areas that matter. At the same time, making sure that we have profitable growth Now, in between that, we must make sure that the customer is satisfied. In terms of expectations, the classic example is about watching a video on your handset, whether it's 360K or 2K. Or 4K makes no difference. So we ought to be able to deliver, not to the customer satisfaction. Think digitization analytics has proven to be a useful tool in our digital advertising business as well as our micro lending business. We've been able to successfully, for, develop algorithmic lending and mapping out customer preferences so that the advertisements we do for certain customers are well targeted. Of course, organizational excellence, entails a culture change and therefore a journey. The good news is Ajeta has a strong platform to be able to excel in the various work processes and business that we're involved in. We have today announced the listing of our Bangladesh business with the Aljeta Limited. We plan to list 10% of the large payback and evolving 553,800,000 shares on the Stock Exchange in Bangladesh. Proceeds of 255,000,000 will be deployed towards CapEx. There is no facilities upon new share. And our shareholding, we diluted down to 61.8 said, there will be no return impact to our debt to earnings and our debt that will remain controlling shareholder force IPO. Partying up for 6 second fastest. We expect the IPO to be completed by towards the end of this year. We will this will be the 4th largest in Bangladesh copper Street and will be based on the IPO price will be the 11 largest listed company in Bangladesh. I'm good about seeing the benefits of the IPO. I think something like 1413 employees will participate in this IPO. It gives them the opportunity to, participate in the growth of the business as well as, you know, the ownership of amongst employees. On that note, I know we have a bit of time for Q And A over to the administrator. Question and answer you. And we can now take our first question from Piyush Chaudhry from HSBC. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi, good evening. Thanks a lot for the opportunity and congrats for the good numbers. Three questions. Firstly, what factors are driving the ROIC outlook of 5.5% to 6% in 2020? Which is lower than 6.7% for 2019. Secondly, the CapEx guidance of 6,600,000,000 ringgit Could you give us some split among the opcos? And thirdly, could you share the outlook terms of revenue growth for Cellcom and, Rovi in particular? Yes. So first one, Biyush, for 2 factors, One is, as I said earlier, that 20,021,000 and 20s, we would report our numbers on post MFRS 16. Or MFRS 16, as you know, the financial leases gets classified as debt. And that has a negative impact on the ROIC. So around 0.3% impact is around, around close to 0.7% active impact. Comes because of the reclassification from 3 to 4s in 2000 and 20. So that's one major factor. 2nd factor is that, you know, our investments, we continue to focus on investments in some of the markets. For example, in Indonesia, we continue to have level of investments higher as we continue to invest in X Java. So, our strategy focus around that hasn't changed. The third point is that in Bangladesh, because of some of the deferment of CapEx, from 2019 to 2020 because of the restrictions that the regulator had put on we had resolved this whole BTSC audit issue, doesn't mean that the CapEx in Bangladesh it remains, inflated. So these are the 3 main factors, but the main factors is, more clear count around the accounting change from a pre to, post MFRs. It was still on a like to like basis and we would have been better than last year. CapEx guidance just to give you a bit of a breakout CapEx would be around slightly over 900,000,000 in, in, Excel will be around $2,000,000,000. All this doesn't ring it. Terms, smart would be around 320,000,000 dialogue, we're looking at around the 66,000,000 dollars, $700,000,000 Bobi, as I said, because of the development would be around 1,000,000,000 CapEx and sell would be 400. E.co would be 900 and the others which does include investments, enterprise, etcetera, would be around 200. So that's the breakup of approximately of these 6,600,000,000 CapEx guidance for next year. Yes, yes. I can answer the question to you very directly, and then I can pass to enough to elaborate So for Charcot, we believe that we are aiming towards low single digit growth for revenue ex device Of course, it does include outside mobile enterprise and fixed too. And for Robbie, we are looking at at least mid single digit growth. For AGB for Azeata, it is delivered. It publishes the, the, like, API is, 5 point 5.6%, right? So let me pass to, it up the DRO cycle to give you a bit more color on this type of growth? Yes. Hi, good afternoon, everyone. Yes, as Dan said, I think we're looking at a low single digit growth overall. If you look at in terms of the, our cohort mobile consumer business is more likely when we, more towards the flat if you have seen what's happening in 2019 on the industry, but we're looking at new source of growth as growth, especially in the enterprise market, we're seeing some contraction, especially in the enterprise market, not just in the mobile, but also in the solution space. We're seeing a double digit growth that we've seen from 2018 to 2019. Another thought of growth that we're looking at is to see in the home market especially the fixed wireless area. We're making some modest growth now in 2019. I would say And we are looking at now, we've been in 2019, we'll be starting to get into a run rate of responsibly around $100,000,000 a year. So this is a new areas of growth that we're looking at. And of course, there are other areas such as growth in our MVNO business and also some of the new brands that we're launching to in the market. Okay. Can we mention to Jess, I'm sorry, just a correction. Ohela API is 3.5percentto4.5percent. Not sure where the 5.6 kilo vouchers now. Thank you. From Arthur Tanida from Citi. Please go ahead. Hi. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Firstly, on Cellcom, the momentum is quite firm posting normalized PAT and EBITDA growth, even though your revenues are actually contracting Now that's in direct contrast to peers who are actually shrinking their profits alongside EBITDA. What's driving this differential? And do you think this growth can be sustained? Second question I had is with e.co. Sorry, just if you can remind me, is there any intention to do anything with this asset soon, or are you looking to 1st grow the business before actually trying to monetize? And last question I had is with regard to the parameters for consolidation. Would you be willing to consolidate assets in the region if it would mean a near term dilution for the assets? Or would you actually prioritize profitability in the near to medium term? Okay. And Jennifer, the TFO for Sarban, to answer the first question? Once we have not many to grow in terms of our revenue in 2019, but we have done quite a couple of things in terms of cost optimization We are starting to see some, you know, some relief in terms of the cost optimization that we have actually embarked on quite a while ago, while we say more than a year ago, we're starting to see some small results. These reductions continue to we should continue to see this resulting over the next couple of quarters as well and we think that there's more room for us to actually do more initiatives in terms of the cost. If I were to add, we also have been focusing more towards our more profitable products It's one thing that we're doing and reducing less, the less profitable products, especially the prepaid side. That's why we're seeing some of the planning in terms of numbers in prepaid. And also some of the growth that we see in the MVNOs also is helping out in terms of margin as well. Okay. On the second question, I heard something to do monetization dot go there's no immediate plan per se, as we speak right now, we we are, we are in a good shape right now in a way because they're doing so well, we want to find the right time to do any kind of monetization. And also we have a couple of M and As that we're looking at this year and next year. So, in the past year eventually. So, I guess, we've not the right time to do anything with regards to monetization. However, if you made monetization at a new investor coming in, maybe is that there's a possibility but not so much on the, if you made monetization at least at this point in time. Of course, this can change. I'm not saying that anything anything can happen. As we evolve and we review our business, but nothing is imminent at all. On the consolidation, the good question, some of the consolidation we do, will might affect our profitability short term, our focus on profit very clear from the whole group. In fact, your question on the telecom is also you could see that we are very we are driving that EBITDA and profit growth we we do not necessarily want, however, to lose pocket share because we want to at least maintain pocket share, but focus on EBITDA profit coming back to your question, however, if we believe that the right thing to do, sacrificing short term profit for medium term consolidated, there's a medium term profit and a future proofing of business we might still consider consolidation. So it's not necessarily, yes or no at this point in time. Understood. Thank you very much. Thank you. Next question comes from Alex Goh from Ambac Please go ahead. Yes, thank you for the opportunity. I have three questions. The first regards, Cellcom, I've noticed that your postpaid subscribers have been coming down over the past 2 quarters, which is in the opposite direction of the other top two operators that have just released our results. I'm just wondering, when do you expect this trend to reverse? And do you expect what are the plans that you have put in place to make these changes and how imminent are those? My second question is also regarding CELCOM is regarding your home fiber business, which right now is focused more towards East Malaysia. I'm wondering when are you looking at bringing it that business into Canada Malaysia and what are the strategy involved and when can we expect any launching of that coming soon. And also with that, how is your collaboration with Maxis on the 5 g taking place and how much of that would account for your 900,000,000 CapEx for Cellcom this year? And my third question is regarding your monetization possibilities. You've already indicated E.co is not on the plans. But are there any other assets within your portfolio that you are looking at to monetize? Okay. Maybe I'll answer the question. I'll get it. Yes, thank you for the question. Yes, on the postpaid, yes, we see a bit of a decline in terms of subscribers. As you can see also, our revenue on postpaid revenue has actually agreed So we focus more on the higher value customers. And then we let through our MVNOs to go to quite a lower lower ARPU market. So, and then in terms of reversing the trend of the subscribers, we, you probably have seen in the market, we have launched a brand new postpaid, services or prepaid, postpaid product. We call that the postpaid mega, which give options to customers and it's very early days. It's just been launched for about a week, but we hope, or are we looking forward for the trends to turn around within the first the second quarter itself. On the home business, our focus is actually both on fixed wireless access as well as fiber. You're right, our fiber, our own fiber today is only focused more in Saba. We have close to 58,000 whole parts now in Saba. However, in Sanjay, we are focusing more with our fixed wireless access at this point in time, and we have quite been getting quite a good traction in that market as well. We signed the agreement, for the hotel agreement for the HSBC with, DM last year. We are going now in pilots into the areas to get the services going. We're looking forward to actually opening up with other hotel arrangement with other fiber owners as well. When it comes to 5G and the arrangement that we have with Maxey for the MOE that we signed was and we was actually to explore potential collaboration in network sharing. A few things we have achieved through that in terms of setting up the technology the Mokul technology, how does it work with 5G and 4G? However, with the current process that's going on with MCMC or the consortium, some of this is working in better world and we are focusing more on towards how to work with industry on the current constructive process. I hope that answers your question. Yes. And how about the other assets that you may that could possibly be monetized other than E.co? I mean, are there any in your portfolio that you're looking at at this moment in time? Yes. Let me answer the 3 aspects of monetization in a broad standard of If you again, what I did, there's nothing. We don't spend any of the, of course, which is main lifting as you heard earlier, by the things I did, we are listing Robbie, no plan for others. If you are talking about monetization and bringing new partners coming in. Nothing imminent in, I'm not ruling out, but nothing imminent in the 6 digital operators by the mobile operators, but quite possible for the digital businesses. Recently, in fact, using booked an example, the main reason we could have grown even much bigger. They achieved, I think, double digit triple digit growth last year. But we are still holding the strike. We we invested. We gave them a test for investment, but they for them to be even much better is to invest more and I think having a partner might help or even consolidation might help. In the case of ADA, as an example, again, they became profitable last year and they are on route to a much bigger growth. Get it, given, if we can get off funding, to how much it can even be bigger. So, in short, but don't exit mid 6, robin, the rest are not to bring in partner, possible, for multiple model phrases, but nothing imminent for digital businesses, quite likely this year. Thank you. Yes. Regarding Robbie, given the fact that you have just gone through, quite a tough situation with the Bangladesh taxes, was do you think it was a good timing to do that IPO now Or do you think you've gone through the worst? That's why you think the green IPO this year is the best time? I think we've always been planning to, list the company. And frankly, there's never a good time, and this is a market condition which are beyond us. So far as regulatory changes is concerned, I do not wish to speculate whether they're more Texas that's coming at the horizon. But I think the business is, is a well geared to to grow and listing it gives us the profile. And as I've mentioned, it gives people suffering 1413 staff to participate in the business. So on balance, and we're doing the minimum equity required anyway issuance of new shares, 10 percent, $205,000,000 goes towards building the network. So on balance, the board decided that, yes, it's a good time to go. I see. Okay. Thank you very much. We can now take our next question from Chung Cheng Phong from CIMB. Please go ahead. Hi, thanks for the call. Two questions from me. Firstly, for Cellcom, I noted that the sales and marketing cost was down to its lowest level in at least 4 years and the staff cost was also down a fair bit on a Q on Q basis. Anyone out there, if not, what have you done to sort of bring these cost levels down And should we be expecting that these are going to be the run rates going forward? Second question for, on Rovi, can you talk a bit about competition in in Bangladesh. And if that's the reason why your top line growth has been a little bit more muted on a Q on Q basis And also there has been a couple of big increases in sales and marketing, direct and staff costs in the fourth quarter. Are these cost items expected to remain high into 2020? Those are my two questions. Thank you. So now I'll try to, Jennifer, yeah, I'll try to turn on the first question that you have shared for cell phone. The first one in terms of sales and marketing, yes, we have got a small reversal, but other than that, the main thing is because we actually have a shift in terms of the media mix that we have to use as well, but I wouldn't say that that will be the rate that will continue in the next year because you know, sales and marketing is not an area that you can just cut for a long run. So we will optimize it for quarter 4, but going forward, we may we may be spending a bit more in terms of sales and marketing to try to capture back some of the potentially some of the subs that we have loss in 2019. In terms of the staff cost, the rate that we actually have in terms of what you see in quarter 4, that will be the growing rate that we're going to have in terms of 2020. But in 2020, of course, you know, we will have the normal, small growth in terms of stop costs because of increment and whatnot, right? I think I think I hope I actually do answer your question. Yeah, was there any staff that left Telkom in the 4th quarter was there a reduction? We had an exercise in 2018 and we exercise the people most of the people actually live in 2018 and there are some actually live over time in 2019. Most of them would have been the 1 to 8 week plan to leave they would have left the country by 2019. And on Ruby, as you're aware, the significant market player is going forward. They have a per share, whereas we have 30 per share. I think, admittedly, we are targeting our CapEx spend on much more targeted areas to chip away from the from the incumbent. So there is an opportunity, but again, trying to balance between how much spend on CapEx and making sure that the business is profitable. It's only to deliver that we face, but, I think there's a I seem to say that current strategy is to try to get market share. And let's not forget, as I said, they are there, but I think they are not spending or as focused as we are. So we think we can, there is a see for growth there if we prefer to spend. If I may add on your next question on sales and marketing, I think it's largely be more aggressive in that quarter on pushing seams into the market. Which is resulted in higher sales and marketing spend in quarter 4. Also coming back to the earlier point, it's typically Bangladesh quarter 4 is lower when it comes to revenue, because that's the time when your winter starts setting in into the country. And you would see in quarter 4 lower. So all operators in quarter 4 actually had a quarter on quarter negative growth but Ruby has relatively lower impact. I think, maybe just to add to that, Hans here, the slowdown due to the, some of the restrictions on new products and also roll out at one point in Bangladesh until they were released later part of the last part of the quarter. That also led to some slowdown in the acquisition in Q4. That's because of the Okay, all right. No. Any other Yeah. Yeah. There are no further questions at this time. I would now like to turn the call back to the host for any additional or closing remarks. Thank you very much for joining us for the full year 2019 results. I'll see you