Earnings Call: H2 2021

Jun 10, 2021

Good day, and welcome to the Card Factory Results for the Year Ended 31st January 2021 Conference Call. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Darcy Wilson Rimer. Please go ahead. Good morning. My name is Darcy. I'm the new Chief Executive for Card Factory, and I'd like to welcome you to our preliminary results presentation for the year ending January 2021. Let me kick off with my introduction. So I'm very pleased to have joined Card Factory, and I'm joining at an exciting time. It's a much loved brand with great potential. The reason I've joined is to build on the great work in the past whilst unlocking the future potential that is within the business. As we all know, the things that made Card Factory successful for the 1st 20 years are not necessarily going to be the things that make it successful for the next 20 years. And my job is to preserve those things from the past that are essential for the business going forward whilst making the necessary changes to unlock its potential. I've been with the business 3 months now and I've been focused on a few priorities. My first priority was to get Over our 1,000 stores reopened in backtrading after lockdown. There was a lot of work to do to get all of the old stock out of the stores, The stores replanned and replenished with the new stock, and I think the team have done an amazing job at getting our stores ready for opening in order for us to welcome our customers and capitalize on the opportunity. And the second thing, I've been working with Chris and the team to get the refinancing complete and to ensure there's sufficient liquidity within the business. And then finally, I've been working on getting immersed into the business, coming up the learning curve and as meeting as many of the colleagues as I possibly could. And so far, I've met about 500 colleagues in groups or in 1 to 1 meetings, including in store and video, some Face to face and I'm impressed by the culture in our business. We have a company where customers and colleagues love us and there's energy from our colleagues To do the right thing. Now don't get me wrong, not everything is perfect and I've uncovered the aspects of the business that need improving. But it's also been rewarding To talk with customers in store and see just how much they missed our stores being open and the great offers that we have. And when I speak to customers, They talk to me about the great value, the quality, but also the way our colleagues treat them in store. They rely on us to help them celebrate their special moments in life. And delivering on the customer experience has been at for which to take the business forward. I spent 8 years at Costcutter transforming that business into a destination convenience offer that now attracts leading independent retailers and shoppers from all demographics. And many of you will know That nearly 10 years ago, I oversaw the strategic review at Clinton Cards and I was impressed then at how Card Factory had disrupted the market With its value and quality proposition and the opportunity is to recapture that energy and for Card Factory to lead the market, Lead not just in cards, not just in volume, but also in overall experience. And my aspiration is to unlock CardFacts' potential. By applying the right strategic investments across the business, We can leverage our business model and unlock that inherent potential, but also to know and serve our customers better, Strengthening our relationships by offering great value products and convenient shopping experiences that help them to plan and celebrate occasions however they choose through any channel. We have the opportunity to do better for our customers. We have the opportunity to do better for our teams and partners. And in doing so, we will deliver better for our shareholders. A year ago, The business communicated the strategic plan that was outlined at the Capital Markets Day. And I think the shape across the three pillars of that strategy is right. We are working through the impact COVID has had on the plan, and we're going through each element and testing it carefully, Including the timing, the phasing and the investments and looking to identify any areas that we might have missed. It's early days, So there will be more to follow at the interims in September and thereafter. But Card Factory is fundamentally a solid business with a material and very attractive share of a large and broadly stable market. And we have a loyal customer base wanting to share And celebrate life's moments. Our business model offers distinct competitive advantage. It enables us to maintain our value proposition And excellent margins. It ensures we can react quickly to customer demand, but also pivot based on new customer insight. And we have the opportunity to continue to invest and strengthen that competitive advantage. I have seen the love shoppers have for what we do. However, We can help our customers to shop better with us, starting with however they want to shop, creating a more omnichannel experience that puts quality and value cards and gifts in the hands of customers wherever they want them. Of course, the stores remain an important part of how we serve our customers, but we know we can do more to improve the shopping experience in store Using our increased digital capabilities to bring the online and store experiences closer, we're at the start of our online journey. We have the opportunity to grow this important channel and also use it to get closer to our customers and provide more services to them. The platform is there for us to build on. Now having said that, Card Factory's business model Obviously, meant it had a very difficult COVID, but it has shown its resilience throughout. And for the reasons I outlined on the previous slide, With the refinancing route clear, the world opening up, there is a clear path through to delivering both strategically And financially, there was pent up demand from customers now that we are open again. However, Customers are choosing to visit the High Street less, but spend more stocking up on the unbeatable value products that we have in store. Online demand has settled since the stores reopening, but it's settled at higher than pre pandemic levels. We know most of our customers have had a difficult time through COVID having not been able to celebrate over the last year as much as they would have liked. But we expect that this year, there'll be renewed enthusiasm to share and celebrate those special moments. There is a lot to go for, And I think we are well placed to win. Chris will now take you through the financial performance and business update for our year ending January 2021. Chris? Just moving on to the financial performance of Card Factory For the year ended Jan 2021. On the financial summary, overall, the business was impacted by a closure period of circa 5 months Leading to a 36.9 percent reduction in revenue. If we look at the actual performance of stores year on year, where they were open and trading And including online, the business actually was in a positive like for like of 0.1%. Card Factory stores On their own were minus 2.4%, while Card Factory Online was positive 135%, Whilst retail partnerships performed strongly at +83%. The loss before tax that we guided to in January has increased by £4,700,000 This is to do with additional stock provision, which I'll come back to. CapEx has been well controlled at £7,400,000 against £14,600,000 in the prior year as has net debt Being controlled at €107,000,000 as at the year end. Moving to the like for like sales We've seen a similar pattern between post lockdown 1 and post lockdown 2. So post lockdown 1, We've seen the like for like sales recover from minus 25% to plus 2% in October, whilst average basket value remained Consistent round about plus 25%. Transactions also recovered from minus 43% to minus 20% over the same period. As I say, post lockdown 2 seen a similar pattern, but stronger sales are plus 2%, recovering even further to +18%. Some of this was due to the impact of the seasonal sales condensed into a shorter period. Average basket value remained strong at plus 29% and transactions were more positive minus 27%, Recovering to mine 17% over the same period. And Darcy later will on the outlook will touch on the more recent trading performance. Turning to the divisional analysis. Overall revenues were down 41% in terms of the stores. We've seen the number of stores, 15 unprofitable stores close, 9 new openings during the period with a net 6 reduction within the year. We do anticipate there will be a future store openings will reflect a gradual shift to retail parks with an increased focus on the existing estate and locations. Online performed strongly, +135 percent for Card Factory Online, Whilst getting personal also was positive at plus 12% in the period. Traffic was up of the impact of the pandemic, But we have seen positive traffic as well post opening up, post lockdowns 1 on 2. The improved offering with the new digital platform that was launched in July has had its impact and the mobile app was also launched in January, which is performing well. Moving to partnerships, Strong performance at £5,600,000 against £3,100,000 in the prior year, plus 83%. Some of this was the annualization of the ALDI and TRS contracts. However, both have performed strong within that period. Turning to margins, the cost of goods in the year has been mainly impacted by an additional stock provision of $18,100,000 This reflects the introduction of handheld terminals, which Now given us more granular SKU level data where we can analyze product performance in a lot more detail. We've done a thorough reassessment of the group's stock position and assessed what product lines will support the longer term 5 year strategy. So the impact of this, we do not expect to be a reoccurring position. Moving to store wages. As you can see, the overall percentage Being controlled with sales, the period did benefit from €27,500,000 of CGRS support And store property costs were significantly down. £18,100,000 of this did come through rates relief, but we are seeing Rent reductions in recent renegotiations of leases. Moving to direct expenses. These were down at €18,300,000 on the prior year, slightly up in percentage terms because of the non variable element of certain property costs such as Water rates and an element of the fixed electricity charges. We've introduced the new Gate 5, Which has reduced the external storage cost of the business, which will show benefit through into 2022. And in operating expenses, we've also seen a reduction in cost further as we've looked at some restructuring within the business. There will be further investment in IT infrastructure and online support and including the new platform, whilst rents have been fully accrued on deferred payment terms in the year. Now moving to Free cash flow. The business generated a very positive free cash flow within the year. Two main callouts driving other variants around net working capital, Plus €33,400,000 A large element of this was the deferral of VAT. A small element regarding the reduction in overall stock levels and an element which relates to improved payment terms with suppliers. The other call I'll make is around lease liability payments at $22,100,000 against $41,000,000 in the prior year. This largely reflects the deferrals, which I'll come on to shortly in terms of rental payments. But overall, a very strong cash flow generation in the period of plus £36,100,000 only £11,000,000 down on the prior year. Just breaking out the underlying cash flows and net debt. Net debt, excluding lease liabilities, Was down at £107,000,000 down £35,000,000 year on year. But there's a couple of key timing benefits in FY 2021 that I want to mention. VAT deferrals and agreements with HMRC equated to €19,000,000 and property rent deferrals equated £21,000,000 totaling £40,000,000 in the period. Therefore, the underlying cash outflow in the period for FY 2021 was minus £4,600,000 And the €40,000,000 we expect to unwind fully within the period of FY 'twenty two. Moving on to CapEx. As I mentioned earlier, CapEx Has been tightly controlled in the period of £7,400,000 down from £14,600,000 in the prior year. However, during the period, we have still supported key projects of the ERP implementation, New supply chain technologies that will give us improved operational efficiency and some more limited investment in terms of the store estate. And we've continued to invest in new technologies such as handheld terminals, which have give us improved insight into the stock of the business. We've continued with web platforms and mobile apps and investment there and an element in terms of the 9 stores and some relocations at €1,200,000 When looking to the guidance for FY 2022 in terms of CapEx, This will be a reduced level at €10,000,000 to €13,000,000 again still supporting the key group's long term strategic objectives, including e commerce platforms, boosting online fulfillment capacity and the SAP implementation. I'd just like to move now to the liquidity update. The business we announced On an RNS on the 21st May about securing new debt facilities for the business. This replaces the 200,000,000 facility which was in place to September 23 with a new facility of 225,000,000 This new facility breaks down into €100,000,000 of revolving credit facility, €75,000,000 of term loan and €50,000,000 of CL bills, All with the maturity to September 23 with the potential to extend to September 24. During the period, there will be replacement covenants. To March 22, this will include a monthly test on total net debt and a monthly test in terms of the last 12 months underlying EBITDA. After March 2022, we then moved to more traditional Covenant tests of interest cover and leverage. I'd just like to call out a couple of other key points to the terms of the agreement. Equity distribution is prohibited until the term loans on the CL bills are repaid in full. And there is a requirement for best efforts to raise €70,000,000 net equity by July 2022 or alternatively to prepay €70,000,000 using funds from other subordinated sources. Other key points from the Board's perspective is we have controlled tightly The capital investment over this period during the pandemic, the board intends to prioritize deleveraging the business And the capital structure, which will be conservative yet efficient. And in terms of the overall group's capital policy, this is under review as Trading conditions become more clear. Turning to the FY 2022 guidance. The business has had 2.5 months of further lockdown, And we are cautious about the outlook of any potential further closures over the remainder of the year. And given the uncertain economic backdrop, Further financial guidance will be given once trading performance is stabilized and can be assessed. And we believe this will be the next update will be at the interims in September. At that point, I'd now like to pass back to Darcy to go through the outlook. The strategy set out in July last year across the 3 pillars, as I've already said, is by and large the right one. There's been some early progress made in Testing price changes and range reviews and key strategic investments were prioritized. However, COVID has had a significant impact on the progress that might otherwise have been made in 2021 as decisions were rightly made to hold back certain investments to preserve cash. We're completing a review of the 5 year strategy as discussed By finishing the COVID impact assessment, we'll be able to talk more about this at the interim results in September, We will also have a clearer view of trading trends and the medium term impact of COVID on shopping behavior. Thinking about current trading, obviously, we were still in lockdown for Valentine's Day and Mother's Day this year, But we were pleased with our online performance. And now that stores have opened, online has settled down at above pre pandemic levels. The recovery pattern after this latest reopening is similar to the previous two lockdowns. And although trading was initially better than expected, This is reflective of the pent up demand. Our 2 year like for like from April opening is minus 2.9% versus 2019. However, it's important to note That the 2019 figures include Easter when we were closed in 2021, and there is also some timing differences with Father's Day. It's too soon to tell how trends will develop, but at the moment, we are seeing materially reduced footfall Completely in line with wider high street trends and customers are shopping at slightly different times and choosing to spend more when they're in store, But it's too soon to call how things will settle down. But for now, our main focus is to ensure that we have the right ranges and layouts in our store to maximize sales and to ensure that we deliver on the key seasons of Father's Day and Christmas and ensure that we have sufficient Online capacity. Of course, it's been a tough year, but it's an exciting time to join the business. You'll appreciate that it's only been 90 days since I joined the business and there's been a lot to do with reopening and refinancing. As I said before, I'm very impressed with what I've seen so far. Customers have great affection for us as a brand and for what we offer, but we can do a lot more to serve them better And to help them shop with us more conveniently. Our business model gives us a great deal of opportunity to do this better and more efficiently across different channels. Overall, I am confident in the long term and our ability to unlock potential. For now, I'd just like to say thank you for listening, And Chris and I would be delighted to take any questions that you may have. Thank you very much. We've had A number of questions on the webcast. We'll start with questions from the webcast first. Just as a reminder, if you'd like to ask a question on the webcast, Just submit it via the toolbar at the bottom of your screen. So first question is for Darcy and it's from Jonathan Pritchard from Peel Hunt. Which element of the strategy revealed at the Capital Markets Day are you least comfortable with? Or will your update on interims Essentially be a rehash of that presentation. Thank you for the question, Jonathan. I think As I've outlined, I think the 3 pillars of the strategy winning with card led available in more places, however, customers shop And Advantage's scalable model, I think is right and focusing on kind of storage stay, focusing on building online And then building scale through partnerships. However, there's a lot of detail in the execution plans that And as I've said, we're working through that doing the COVID impact assessment, making sure that each of those has the right investments and the right actions in place, as well as Doing the review on the capacity and the capability of the organization to deliver that. And I expect To go back with an update around about the interims. So thanks for the question. Thank you. Next question was from Lee Taylor. Lee was asking, can you please provide more information on the proposed $70,000,000 equity raising? Will this be via a rights issue and when will it take place? And are there circumstances in which this may not take place, for example, as trading is sufficiently robust to be able to repay existing indebtedness. I think that will be for Chris. Yes. So the agreement, as was in the presentation, is we need to do a best effort In terms of an equity a net equity raise of €70,000,000 by July 2022. The other alternative is that we could prepay €70,000,000 from other sources and subordinated debt. In terms of if it's an equity raise or debt and the question around if it's equity, it would be a rights issue. Obviously, those things are things that we're considering in conjunction with discussions we will have with shareholders and obviously with the board. So I can't comment further on that, but there are 2 options there effectively. As I say, it's either raise net €70,000,000 of equity or prepaid €70,000,000 from subordinated debt. And another question for Chris And this time from Paul Hawkins, who is looking for some more information on the $4,700,000 stock provision. So the additional stock provision, we've as you may be aware, in terms of the way the business in the past has looked at Stock, we've never had the ability to get individual card SKU level data in terms of stores. What we invested in this year, as you'll see, dollars 1,100,000 of this in the CapEx spend, was to invest in handheld terminals. So we have done a thorough granular review of every single stock line in seasons and in every day in card and in non card to assess what products we believe will support the 5 year strategy and where the business goes from here. So As part of that thorough review, we've identified certain stock lines that we believe don't form part of the future of the proposition. And that reflects effectively what the €4,700,000 is. Thank you. And we have a few questions now And from Athif from Ardent Financial. Starting with, have you considered a convertible bond as it would be cheaper in terms of interest payments Unless dilutioned for shareholders, he also is asking, is there a large disconnect between the valuation of Moonpig and Card? What can you do to close this? And his third question is, what potential as in for rent renegotiation and deferred rent and future rent? Yes. So I suppose going back to the earlier point, what I mentioned about the net equity raise or Subordinated debt applies to that. We will look and consider all options as a board. In terms of the Disconnect on valuation and to do with Moonpig, I think it's fair to say the online piece has benefited through These periods of lockdown, what we have seen within card factories, we've seen a big uptick, as you'd expect, when the stores have been closed. And when the stores reopen, we've seen a normalization of that. So I do believe once the business is allowed to trade Without further interruptions, then we'll see a position where that gap will naturally close. Just in terms of the potential on rent negotiations then, clearly, as a business, We have continued to get the average lease length down. So we're on average down to 2.5 years on the average lease length now. And as part of that, that means on an annual basis, we're already renegotiating a high proportion of rents. And those rents, we are getting substantial reductions On that, I won't give a percentage on that because we've got over 1,000 stores. But we are absolutely pushing them to the wire In terms of pre arbitrations or negotiations, if need be. So rest assured, we are pushing rents extremely hard for the business. Thank you. Next question is from Adam Tomlinson from Liberum. It's to Darcy. So he's asking Darcy, Can you please elaborate on your thoughts after 3 months in the business of the key areas that need to improve? What are your priorities from here? Thank you for the question. I think that The majority of my observations are things that are we've Talked about some of those things today or covered through our plans. So for example, the stock That we've spoken about today, once we have the full ERP implemented, that will be improved. There's some work to do on online on fulfillment. Again, the team have done a really decent job, Particularly, the lockdown of increasing capacity, but we've got more work to do. So it's all the things that we've identified Through the strategy and through the other work, there are plans in place. So I don't think there's anything Big, that hasn't been identified before and with some corresponding plans. I think the only other thing I would add is, I think with over a 1,000 stores, I have an ambition to get to make sure that we have better consistency right throughout Our company on that. But I think we've got decent plans in place to look And build a continuous improvement mindset. Okay. We have another follow-up question from Atif for Chris. He's asking, Have you received any approaches from private equity? If we had, it would be an announceable event. So yes. Thank you. And I've asked a question from Adam Tomlinson again from Liberum. Can you please summarize how the group's online proposition has improved since its strategy launch in 2020 and what are the key initiatives yet to come And what benefits are you expecting to bring? Yes. So I think since The Capital Markets Day quite a bit of work is being done, particularly throughout lockdown. The replatforming of carfactory.co.uk is complete. That's improved our ability to improve range as well as give us better data, better visibility. That is And we've launched the apps both on Android and on the Apple platform, again with decent take up and a good customer feedback. We're in the process now of replatforming, Getting personal, that should be complete shortly and then that enhances our ability I guess both platforms to continue to improve. In terms of future plans and benefits, As part of us looking or the team looking at the strategy, there is a substantial piece of work that relates to our plants online. And again, I'll update you at the entrance. Thank you. And also another follow-up from Adam. He's asking, is there any additional Information on discussions around the future retail partnership, please. Yes. So I think that piece of work in terms of the Current partners that we have are progressing well. The team is identifying other potential areas And we are shortly to appoint a Business Development Director To that position, we'll take up leadership of that aspect of the business. And so yes, so looking forward to having increased Strength and capability. Thank you. And we have a question from Kazim from Major Travel, He was asking, is there a plan to refresh the store strategy for the post COVID world, e. G. Looking at integration with online delivery options and refresh product offerings. And I will also tie that question in with Daniel Longden who asked a similar question around, Do you see an opportunity to partner with the likes of Deliveroo or Last Mile Deliveroo? So I think that as I outlined in both my opening remarks and In my outlook, I think there is a big opportunity to capitalize on the technology And the platform both from a how we serve customers, how customers being able to access through any channel, but also how we communicate, how we market. And so I think there is an opportunity To do that. In terms of store refresh, so part of the work around our card led strategy. There's a number of things already happened in terms of range refresh Pricing trials that we've mentioned and there's more of that to come. So I think we're well placed to continuously improve the store offer, as well as bringing online and the stores closer together. Thank you. We have a couple of questions now from Sedan Power. First question is, Why announced an intention to raise equity without setting a price beforehand and willingness only lead to pressure on lower share prices And more dilution from raising equity. So that has also asked in terms of new financing, how are you thinking about equity versus Subordinate debt and what is the preference here? It seems like you have the balance sheet cash flows to be comfortable even with new equity. Yes. Just coming back to the requirement of the when we went through the refinancing, Which we announced on the 21st May. Obviously, within that was the requirement for the best efforts in equity raise or prepay the £70,000,000 subordinated Debt, so it was an announceable event. It's not something that we had any optionality on as part of that refinancing was the reason. In terms of the preference, clearly, we're assessing what we think is best financially for the business, also for stakeholders. So that assessment is we've got a lot of focus on that at the minute since the We've got a lot of focus on that at the minute since the refinancing was put in place, but I can't make a comment in terms of preference at this point. Thank you. Our next question is from James Gilbert. He's asking, given the cash flow generation of the business, The debt I have seen onerous, in particular, forcing a €70,000,000 equity issue is highly dilutive. Why is the revenue so challenging? I think the situation, as with a lot of retailers, we faced Three lockdowns, and effectively the impact of that no covenants are set to be able to withstand That continued position. So we have no option but to renegotiate then covenants with the banks, which we've done successfully. And obviously, the terms of that refi is what I've outlined. Thank you. And following on from an earlier question, Daniel Longden is asking, do you see potential for a pipe investment as part of the fundraise? Again, I'll just refer back to the previous comment in terms of the Objectionality we've got. Perfect. And Adam Thomason has another question. Given the work to be done to improve online fulfillment, Do you think some sales were left in the table during COVID? Yes, I think potentially we did have some operational challenges of fulfilling the Peak demand at certain times. The challenge with our business compared to other retailers in our peak period, The sales increase is about 10 times and it's about making sure that you can fulfill the demand and there's a number of tools available. Some of it is about pure capacity in the fulfillment center, but some of it is also about how you use range, How you service times in order to do that. And I think we have built up decent capability and decent knowledge to allow us to continue to I think the other thing I've seen is if I look across because I joined the week of Mother's Day in lockdown, I spent much of my 1st week Looking in detail at the online and actually what we've seen is that Valentine's Day was an improvement on Christmas. We see Mother's Day improvement on Valentine's Day, and I expect to see the same level of improvement again on Father's Day. So I think we're making good progress. And we have another follow-up question from Adam. He's asking, can Can you please talk a bit about your thoughts on the opportunity in NAND card? What improvements have been made so far and what are the next steps? And when will we see these coming through? So I think again, I think As much as we talk about a card led strategy, having non card and the ancillary products to run alongside that is vitally important And making sure that we have the right ranges, the right add ons is extremely Important. We have a new head of gifts join us recently, and they're leading a detailed review of Not just Gift, but Gift and all the other ancillary party or wrap to go with it. So we'll Have we have this continuous improvement in terms of making sure that we have the adjacent products To go with card. Thank you. We've got a question now from Martin Silverman, who's asking, When do you expect card to become profitable? 1, with EBITDA and 2, PBT? So for the announcement that we obviously have put out today, we're not guiding on FY 22 until things stabilize. It's still early days in terms of trading, and we will be giving an update At the interims in September. Thank you. Another question from Sudan. He's asking what type of inventory is obsolete and leads to impairment charges. He says, I would imagine that greeting cards are tailored towards events, Which are usually the same every year. So yes, Similar to not quite the same as fashion, but there are trends. So in terms of cards and design, they do change. And more modern Card smaller, square cards have become more popular. Things like flitter, environmental things are less popular. So there's different things where we do need to adapt the ranges in terms of trends. And the same applies to non card as well. Unicorns was a big success A year or so ago, frozen things like that, which the trends do change. So that's not necessarily true That position. So we're facing the things in the stock, which we want to see that we think are right for the 5 year strategy. And there is a smaller element in there, which clearly, due to the COVID impact, did affect some seasons that there's some additional provision in for that as well. Thank you. We've still got a few more questions coming in. A question from James Gilbert is asking, who do you regard as being your most Challenging competitors today? Look, I think the market is split up into A third, a third, a third. So a third of the market is coming From supermarkets, a third of the market is coming from all other players, including online and clearly we're in the other third of the market. At a macro level, we're watching all of the main brands, but all of the main supermarkets. But in actual fact, the reality is it's trade zone by trade zone. Wherever we have customers living in a trade zone, wherever they're able to purchase their cards, That's who the competitor is. And it's about making sure that we have the right Macro programs trends following the market, but actually at the store level that we have educated Teams and the right plan so that we're able to compete in a local level too. Thank you. We have a question from Daniel Longvin, who is asking, will Darcy be putting his own cash into the business, Not just Remco incentives. And also what are you doing to connect with younger customers? Okay. I think I'm going to not comment on my personal investment plans if that's okay. And if I do purchase any shares and obviously that's announceable and we'll let the market know. In terms of younger customers, that's about through the strategy work that we've done is identifying Who the customers are, who's purchasing, who isn't purchasing and then how we go out and attract those customers, both in terms of range, product, but also how we access and communicate them through social channels, Etcetera. So plans in place to go after the Target customers that we need to continue to drive the business. But I think we are Probably under capacity in terms of kind of insight to data And that's something that we're looking to correct. Perfect. Thank you very much. That concludes our Q and A today. So I'll hand back to Darcy for any closing remarks. Thank you very much. So I just wanted to just say thank you to everybody for joining us today and to thank you for your questions. It's been good on my first occasion to be able to engage in that way. So thank you everybody for your participation, your time, your questions, and I look forward to speaking again at the interims. Thank you.