A very good evening to all the participants. FY 2026 has been a landmark year for 360 ONE in which we have delivered strong financial outcomes and also meaningfully expanded the platform to complete our flywheel. Our core tenets of growth, resilience, and agility have once again been validated in a year that tested markets and businesses alike. FY 2026 was characterized by complex interplay of global and domestic factors. Indian capital markets saw periods of increased volatility driven by evolving geopolitical dynamics and shifting global sentiments. While equity indices touched bullish levels in the first half, markets witnessed phases of correction and sectoral rotation through the year, testing investor conviction. Encouragingly, the Indian wealth and asset management ecosystem remained resilient, supported by record SIP contributions, sustained monetization activity across IPOs, block deals, private equity exits, and a growing investor preference for professionally managed and alternative asset classes.
A progressive regulatory environment continues to strengthen transparency, investor confidence, and long-term capital formation. Let me turn to the numbers now. Our total ARR AUM increased to INR 311,940 crore, up 26% year-on-year, with wealth ARR AUM at INR 216,000 crore and asset management ARR AUM at INR 95,000 crore. Total AUM stood at INR 670,000 crore as on March 2026, reflecting a 22% CAGR over the last five years. More importantly, ARR AUM has grown at a CAGR of 26% in the same period, and ARR revenues recorded a strong CAGR of 32%. ARR net flows for FY 2026 are at INR 55,875 crore. Of this, even if we exclude the acquisition related outflows, the organic FY 2026 net flows rose 36% to INR 35,199 crore, representing 14% of our opening AUM.
Within this, net flows on wealth were INR 25,900 crore and asset management at INR 9,299 crore, reflecting robust momentum from our core UHNI franchise, maturing contribution from newly onboarded teams, and demand across all asset classes within asset management. FY 2026 ARR revenue stood at INR 2,289 crore, up 34.5% YoY, and ARR revenue now comprising 75% of total revenue from operations. Q4 FY 2026 ARR revenue was at INR 605 crore, up 20.4% YoY. ARR retention was at 78 basis points, with wealth at 76 basis points and asset management at 83 basis points. Transaction and broking revenues rose 4.4% to INR 777 crore for the full year and INR 230 crore for Q4, up 53.7% YoY.
The strong Q4 numbers partly reflect the full quarter consolidation of 360 ONE Capital, the institutional equities business formerly known as B&K Securities, whose broking revenue adds a structurally more consistent annuity-like component to what has historically been a more transaction revenue stream. Total revenue increased 18.6% to INR 3,144 crore for FY 2026. Q4 revenue was INR 780 crore, up 18.5% YoY, driven by strong growth across both wealth and asset verticals, partially offset by lower other income. On costs, FY 2026 total costs stood at INR 1,568 crore. These are not directly comparable to FY 2025 due to consolidation of B&K Securities and ET Money. FY 2026 cost to income stood at 49.9%. However, cost to total operating income stood at around 50% as against 49.5% during the previous quarter. The UHNI wealth and asset management cost to income ratios remain stable at 44%-45%, with higher ratio reflecting investment phase of our newer businesses.
We expect gradual improvement in these metrics as these businesses scale up, we drive synergies from strategic initiatives, and incoming wealth teams reach full productivity. As an update to our past communication on tax-related matters, we have received an order today from the tax authorities with an aggregate demand of INR 336 crore. We believe that we have duly discharged all tax liabilities as applicable. We have adequate factual and legal grounds to substantiate our position, and we do not expect any material impact on the financials or on our operations due to these orders. We will pursue appeals against the entire order under the applicable laws. We are happy to report the company recorded its highest PAT, full year PAT for FY 2026 of INR 1,225 crore, an increase of 20.7%.
Tangible ROE stood at 19.3%, and we expect this to improve as capital deployed in our lending and alternative businesses begin to reflect in our earnings. The board has approved the first interim dividend of INR 6 per share, continuing our disciplined capital allocation philosophy, returning capital to shareholders where we have surplus, while retaining sufficient capacity to fund growth in our lending, alternative and strategic initiatives. Moving on from the numbers to a brief update on our new business and strategic initiatives. On the HNI segment, our reserve program now has approximately 60 relationship managers across 12 locations, managing close to INR 4,000 crore of AUM for 650+ clients at ARR retention yields of around 90 basis points. This is natural extension of our UHNI franchise and a powerful feeder pipeline into our core proposition.
With an increase in business momentum and our productivity in the coming year, we would expect the overall financial performance of this segment to improve significantly. On ET Money, FY 2026 has been a year of strategic transformation on the business model and disciplined execution to drive multiple on-ground changes. With different engines at play, we would expect the business to head towards breakeven in the near term. The integration of B&K is now complete, and the institutional equities business has been rebranded as 360 ONE Capital. The business continues to perform strongly with over 500 mid and small cap companies under coverage, over 3,300 institutional clients, and over 90% cash segment share in the broking revenue. Importantly, the expected strategic synergies are coming to life with brokerage revenues from UHNI clients seeing an uplift, and access to 600+ corporate treasuries has opened distribution and lending channels.
Our investment banking platform is being built out, and we expect it to begin meaningful contribution over the next 12-18 months. On the UBS collaboration, cross-referral programs in the wealth business across NRI, resident, and global mandates are showing positive early traction, and we expect these to convert to meaningful relations over the coming financial year. On the asset management side, we are seeing early synergies with UBS's global distribution, providing a pathway for our alternative and listed strategies to access offshore capital. As we look towards FY 2027 and beyond, we remain confident despite ongoing volatility. Over 18 years, we have navigated multiple challenging cycles, guided by a steadfast focus on fundamentals and an unwavering commitment to client interest. Today, we are supported by a strong balance sheet, a talented, high-quality team, and a culture anchored in doing the right things.
I would like to thank all our stakeholders who've been with us through these 18 years. With that, I'll hand it over to Karan for his comments.
Over to you, Karan. Please give us a minute while Karan joins in.
Thank you, Sanjay. Thank you everyone for logging into the call, and good evening, everybody. Given the fact that this is a year-end call, I'll potentially take five minutes extra and talk a little bit about the strategy and where we see ourselves in context of the overall market, and then open it up for question and answers. Good evening, everyone. Today, I wanted to talk through four things where we see, number one, the market's heading, what gives us our competitive edge, where we acknowledge where we need to do slightly better, the extraordinary opportunities that lie ahead of us, and most importantly, the risks which we are actively managing. Let me set the stage with the macro picture first. Financial year for 2026 was undeniably challenging for the Indian equity markets.
Investors, both foreign and otherwise, ended up withdrawing nearly $15 billion-$20 billion, but very well mitigated by the amount of domestic flows we saw, especially through the mutual fund industry. However, from a very critical angle, India's domestic fundamentals have remained extremely strong. Our most important client set, the ultra-high-net-worth individual, and the operating businesses continue to do substantially well. We have responded extremely well, and we've seen investors diversify and invest over the last 12 months across multiple asset classes. While we continue to remain relatively sanguine, we believe in a large way the headwinds are largely priced in, policy environment largely supportive, and for long-term investors, the markets present one of the most attractive entry points across multiple asset classes, both on the equity side, yield plus assets, as well as on the private equity side.
As a wealth and asset management firm, this is precisely the environment where our advisory capabilities matter most, and we are able to make a big difference to being able to give the right set of advice to our clients. Let me turn to some of our key strengths. The first and most important strength for us, which we feel today, is today our brand. We've never felt our brand has been stronger before over the last 18-19 years since we started our business in 2008. We built ourselves a name that is synonymous with integrity, discretion, and long-term thinking, and more often than not, saying no for deals as opposed to saying yes. Our clients come to us not just for returns, but because they trust us with the fiduciary responsibility and a financial future, which is very important for them and across multiple generations.
The brand's taken decades to build, and it compounds over time, and much like the portfolios we manage, and we continue to protect our brand with as much zealousness as possible. Secondly, we've become the platform where we're able to attract the best quality people. Eventually, our business is a relationship-driven business. The caliber of our teams and sum total of our investment professionals, our wealth management professionals, and most importantly, our partners finally determine the quality of advice we deliver. Our relationship managers are not simply salespeople. They're trusted advisors with deep sectoral knowledge, sophisticated product understanding, and genuine client empathy. Equally important are our fund managers and investment professionals who translate market conviction into portfolio performance.
Over the last five years, we've built deep teams which have navigated multiple market cycles, and their disciplined, research-driven approach is a core reason why clients stay with us through volatility. Our own understanding is across multiple asset classes, largely comes across as a function of us investing and building a talent base that has combined institutional rigor, entrepreneurial energy, as well as top-tier investment advisory professionals who are, with an intellectual honesty, able to think for the long term. Thirdly, we today as an ecosystem, are blessed to be the partner of first choice.
If you look at large investment firms across the world, for their India entry strategies, for domestic private equity funds, as well as partners who are large operators in India, we are the natural partners to combine with them to be able to do the right set of transactions and provide them the right amount of financial patient capital. These partnerships give our client access to best-in-class investment opportunities across multiple asset classes. Our shelf remains curated. It's not crowded. We always recommend what we believe in. We are never a pure broker. We always ensure that we're able to get to the client what we really value and advise. The fourth big change is the massive support which has come through the regulatory changes over the last four-five years.
We've been blessed, in a sense, where SEBI has made active regulatory changes over the last four-five years, both on the alternatives industry as well as on the mutual fund industry, and the portfolio management services, as well as the wealth advisory regulations, to enable us to operate in a more transparent and institutionalized market. Recent changes, including the co-investment guidelines, Accredited Investors, introduction of SIFS, allows us to play directly to our strengths as well as a compliance-first organization. Fifth, I think diversification for us has been superb. We are not a one-product firm, and most importantly, we are not even a one-asset class firm. That has enabled us to ride through volatility in a very unique way.
Today, if I reflect and look back at our client portfolios over the last 24-36 months, they've been steadfast, largely because of a diversified allocation of not more than 40%-50% in listed equities, nearly 20%-25% allocation to yield assets, nearly 5% allocation to international assets, 5%-10% to safe debt, and 10%-15% to alternates through a combination of real assets, private credit, as well as private equity. This obviously allows a sustained return, allows the client to build a very strong investment policy statement, and look at his returns with the least amount of volatility and long amount of compounding. Finally, technology and artificial intelligence for us is a big opportunity.
It's not only something which is a challenge, but also an opportunity because it allows us to make a firm which is substantially more portfolio analytics driven and build personalized reporting tools that enable our relationship managers to be able to service the client in a faster, more cleaner manner, and most importantly, with real-time insights. On the investment side, our fund managers can be substantially more productive. They are able to get access to research, which is substantially faster. On the operational side, obviously, AI can power our monitoring workflows, document processing, and most importantly, freeing up our best people to focus on truly what matters, which is thinking, advice, and innovating constantly.
These six areas of our brand today give us a lot of confidence, not only to consolidate, but also to expand and substantially build out our firm for the next six to seven to 10-odd years. Obviously, when we look back, there are certain areas of improvement, and over the next 24-36 months, we'll work steadfastly to ensure that we are able to build out and improve on these following areas. I think over the last 24-36 months, we've kind of got into three new businesses. I think one is largely the high net worth business, which we are building out in a very slow, measured manner. I think last year is a good year for our measured success. I think team's done a phenomenal job in raising close to INR 3,000 crore-INR 3,500 crore of net flows.
On an average for the year, we've had only 35-40 relationship managers. On a closing basis, we have 64-65 relationship managers. It really doesn't show up in revenue numbers because a large portion of the assets are mutual funds, and the broker code change affects revenue only after 12 months. The quality of the business and the quantum of the business has made us very excited. We'll continue to grow this in a measured manner. Our tech platform here is extremely unique. It's a phygital platform. It is something which is set up to service clients between INR 2 crore-INR 25 crore as opposed to set up clients which are purely online. We believe we have a good winning combination there.
Over the next 12-24 months, as we build this out, not only will we see assets coming, but we'll also see the revenue reflecting in our profit and loss account. Secondly, obviously, we've got a large platform built with 360 ONE Capital. We made the acquisition around about nine-10 months back. Obviously, the firm was extremely strong on the equity side. Over the next 12 months, we will carefully pick up a very strong team on the banking side. It's a business which we are excited about, not purely because of the business alone, but largely because the wealth and the asset management business is an automatic feed-on into the institutional business from a relationship perspective.
At the end of the day, we would love to do business with the 10,000 families who, from a promoter-based perspective or professional perspective, effectively engage with us on all three sides. Obviously, those are the 10,000 families who can potentially give us wealth to manage. Those are the 10,000 families we can provide capital at different phases of time and at different parts of their balance sheet through our fund management side. Eventually, those are the 10,000 families we can hopefully cater and build out their capital markets journey as they start out from small businesses and turn into large businesses. The second area is operational efficiency and productivity. Like pretty much every firm, we've grown in a very large way over the last five-six years.
We would need to continue to work hard to ensure that we are not only operationally efficient, but we are also extremely productive. I think in some ways it shows up in our cost to income ratios. We still believe, even outside the new businesses we built out, at a cost to income ratio of 49%-50%, it's something which we should be able to get down to 46%-48%. Over the next two to three years, even though our core wealth and asset management business have remained very rigorously in the region of 44%-45%, we strongly continue to work hard to ensure that our cost to income ratios move towards the 45% to 46% to 47% numbers, driven both by operational leverage and efficiency on the core businesses, as well as improvement in the new businesses.
A critical part of this efficiency agenda is obviously to have discipline on people costs. We managed our people extremely well while at the top end, we've continued to be at the right range, and more often than not, above 90th percentile in terms of compensation. On the hiring side, today we need to adjust to ensure that we hire not only the best quality people, but also ensure that the platform is extremely productive, where we are able to manage the new realities of AI together with the right amount of delivery on the talent side. With this, I come to the opportunity ahead, and this is obviously the most exciting part of our own journey over the next 10-odd years. I think the journey ahead on all three businesses, wealth, asset, as well as capital markets and also lending, remains superbly exciting.
On the wealth management side, we really strongly believe we should be able to get to 12%-15% of our opening AUM every year as net flows. It's a tall order, but we continue to work hard. Our brand, our ability to attract the right set of people, grow our relationship managers and team leaders in a very measured manner by 10%-15% every year allows us to grow our opening AUM by 12%-15% every year. Needless to say, on an overall, not maybe on a quarterly or a yearly basis, mark-to-market of 10%-12% definitely comes in. If I was to look back over the last 15 years, and we were just looking at some data, over the last 16 years, all our client portfolios have actually grown at 15.4% on a compounded yearly basis over the last 16 years.
Hopefully, we are able to continue to give a performance, maybe not 15%, but in the new world order of some number between 10%-14%. We are very confident that on a rolling basis, we will get a mark-to-market benefit of somewhere between 10%-12%-14%, and continued with an opening AUM growth of 12%-14%, we should be able to grow our AUM on the wealth management side by 20%-25%, grow our relationship managers carefully by 25%-30% every year over the next three-four years, and effectively grow our profits on the wealth management side by 15%-25%. On the asset management side, needless to say, I think the alternatives industry continues to grow in a very, very big way.
It's a business which has allowed us to differentiate, allowed us to innovate, allowed us to take part in assets which kind of come through in different parts of the balance sheet for the client. We are able to participate with him in his journey on the equity side, on the fixed income side. Sometimes we are able to do innovative transactions on the yield plus side. I'm extremely happy to say that if I look at all asset classes today, we've really dug deep, and we have 15-20 investment professionals on each of these strategies, which allows us to really respond well in time and allows us to build a very fiduciary and a great relationship with clients. We've allowed a few private equity funds which have returned such a lot of money to clients over the last five-six years.
We raised a fund which was nearly INR 5,500 crore-INR 6,000 crore in 2018, 2019. We returned the entire fund at around about 1.82 times and a net return of around about 16% compounded over a short period of four to five years. The mutual fund industry continues to do extremely well, needless to say. It's a compounding powerhouse. That's one of the areas where we potentially could do better. I think with the introduction of SIFs, I think that's again something which comes naturally to us. That's again something which we are extremely excited about. We would love to do better on the mutual fund side, whereas emphasize and ensure that we have our clear leadership position maintained both on the wealth management side as well as on the alternates side.
On the capital side, obviously, needless to say, like every business, the opportunity is tremendous, but we have two opportunities there. The first opportunity is obviously on the equity side. Equities for us as a firm for 360 ONE from the wealth management side has not been the strongest fort. I think we have a lot of opportunity there. I think together with the 360 ONE Capital research team and our own ability to take that equity research to our wealth management clients, that revenue line item for us has been only INR 85 crore-INR 90 crore historically a year. I see that kind of doubling, if not tripling, over the next three-five years as we add research. Combined with that, obviously the 360 ONE Capital Equities business was substantially well set up.
That would also expand, and hopefully we can see our equity and equity-related income, without considering the banking income, nearly double over the next three-four years. The banking business is something which obviously, again, is a very services business, and to get success in that, apart from relationships and apart from the ability to execute, we also need the best people. We are in no hurry. We will build out our team in a very measured manner. We've got 12 super investment professionals to hire. We are pleased to announce nearly four out of those 12 are in place.
Over the next three-four months, you would see us be substantially more competitive in the market with a very strong combination of the right sort of product execution capability, the right set of people, and most importantly, the right platform and network to be able to succeed in that business. On the lending side, we've done extremely well. We've stuck to our discipline. We've got a super team which has been with us and led the business from ground up since 2016, fast-forward to a decade today, we've been able to run the business without INR 1 of NPA, INR 1 of loss. We've stuck to our core. The business we focused on is largely Lombard lending, largely portfolio lending to our wealth management clients. We've not got carried away, we've not got tempted, and that's allowed us to sustainably grow that business, without any accidents.
Hopefully, no accidents to come in the future. All of this is an opportunity, and we've really enjoyed our journey for the last 18 years. Having said that, risks are always there, and we need to ensure that we continue to manage these risks in an optimal way. First and most important, I think the biggest risk in India, and that's also the biggest opportunity, is at all points of time, we need to roll up our sleeves and handle execution. That's most important. I think as we keep building the team, and today we are 1,500-1,800 proud professionals, we need to ensure that we, at all points of time, 24/7, are only doing one thing, ensuring there is great amount of execution.
Great amount of attention to detail, and ensuring at all points of time, the right set of people, including our employees, including our clients, are able to get responses in the right point of time. We're investing heavily into middle management leadership depth. We are ensuring the organization's professionalized right from the top, and ensuring at the very, very end, culture is reflected in everything we do, not only in our product selection, but even in our client service. For us, all of this is coming together. India is at an inflection point. The macroeconomic foundations are extremely strong. The regulatory environment has been super supportive. The addressable market for wealth asset management alternatives and lending is expanding at a pace never seen before.
We are happy to have the right set of brand, the people, partners, platform, and the right levers to get a disproportionate share of this opportunity. We've been blessed to be a large participant in the market and have a large percentage of market share, and we only hope to be able to double our market share over the next three-five years. With this, our trajectory is clear and we thank you again for being valuable shareholders. Thanks a lot for this call and happy to take questions.
Thank you, Karan. In case you wish to ask any questions, I request you to kindly tap on the Raise Hand icon. First in line, we have Mohit Mangal. Kindly unmute yourself and ask your question.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity, and congratulations on a good set of numbers. I've got three questions. My first question is on the transactional income. I think the transactional income, if you see, it was very strong at INR 230-odd crore in quarter four. Even if I look at the presentation, the UHNI TBR was very strong at INR 177 crore. Just wanted to understand the reasons for the same. Secondly, you earlier guided for around INR 125-INR 130-odd crore per quarter is an ideal way to look at TBR. Do you want to revise that number? That's question number one. Question number two, basically, if you look on the flow side, I think one of the area of the concern is the discretionary PMS on the AMC side. I think it has been getting outflows for the last few quarters.
What is our strategy to get back, especially on that segment? Lastly, if you can give some guidance on yields ex-carry over the next two-three years. Do we kind of bake in some kind of a decline of 1 basis points or 2 basis points, or do you think it will remain stable? Yeah, those are my three questions.
Thank you, Mohit. On the transaction brokerage revenue side, I think what's really helped us differ across multiple market cycles, and I always like to be conservative there because at the end of the day, that's one part of revenue which is not fully in our control. I think what has really helped us, and you've seen a lot of consistency come in, largely because of the fact that we are able to kind of play between asset classes. Obviously, in one quarter it's fixed income, the other quarter it's equity. Obviously, I think our enhanced kind of effort on improving both our fixed income brokerage as well as equity brokerage is also kind of paying off.
I think overall, I would like to say, together with the B&K Capital acquisition and 360 ONE Capital coming into place, it would be safe to say that INR 125 crore-INR 130 crore of quarterly TBR now today looks like closer to the INR 175 crore-INR 180 crore of TBR for sure. Obviously, needless to say, we would like to grow this towards north of the 200 number. I would feel much more comfortable over the INR 170 crore-INR 180 crore number as compared to INR 130 crore-INR 140 crore number in the past. On the discretionary PMS, I agree with you. I think the growth there has been slightly softer than what we would have wanted. I think that's kind of little supplemented with the growth on the advisory side. I think we're making certain set of changes there.
I think in retrospect, we looked at that strategy, in all honesty, as a slightly more relative return to the index kind of strategy, more core. I think we would need to do slightly more active work there to kind of grow the AUM. I think little bit of changes on the discretionary side. I think clients who've kind of looked upon at giving us a very custom-built mandate have done extremely well, and they've continued to add AUM because they've kind of got the best of our advice. But where we've tried to do very, very benchmark hugging portfolios on the discretionary PMS side, that maybe has not really kind of worked out in the same way. But I think we kind of have pivoted our strategy a bit. We'll launch it somewhere in the first week of June.
I do expect those numbers to kind of move up a bit. Sorry, I just slipped. The third question.
The yields ex of carry.
Yeah. Yields, actually I'm not too worried about. I think our accounting policy on carry is quite conservative. I think what really helps us there is we've got it both time-weighted, return-weighted, as well as hurdle-guarded. In some senses, every quarter, every half year, there might be a little bit of variation quarterly, but yearly, I think it's safe to assume around about 10 basis points-14 basis points of our carriable AUM kind of gets accrued every year. Our carriable AUM of the overall alternatives business would be around about 70%-75%. Today, give or take around about INR 30,000 crore-INR 35,000 crore would be broadly carriable. Of that roundabout, I would say give or take, in a bad year, 5 basis points-7 basis points, and in a very good year, 12 basis points-15 basis points of carry is potentially going to accrue.
If you ask me today, on the south side, around about INR 150 crore-INR 175 crore and on the north side, around about INR 300 crore-INR 325 crore of carry is something which can kind of come in. Around about from a modeling perspective, I would say approximately 10 basis points is the right number to look at. Obviously you've got around about 85 basis points-90 basis points coming out of the management fees on the alternates business. Around about 95 basis points-200 basis points on alternates is the yield I would look at.
Understood. Thanks, and I wish you all the best for financial year ahead .
Thank you. Thank you, Mohit.
Thank you. Next in line we have Paresh Jain. Paresh, kindly unmute and ask your question.
Hey. Hi, Karan. Just a few questions. Firstly, I'm just trying to read your outlook statement where you mentioned that your AUM growth will be about 20%-25% and RM addition, if I got it right, will be 20%-25%. You mentioned about PAT or profit growth to be 15%-25%. Just trying to read between the lines there whether are we seeing, are you talking about cost to income to be slightly on the higher side because of the hiring and that's kind of going to put some pressure on your profit growth related to the AUM or the yield compression or whichever way you want to talk about it. That's one. Second is, when you talk about transactional revenues, B&K obviously will have the challenge of the yields compression that we will get from the mutual fund companies from 1st April.
In spite of that, would you still kind of stick to your guidance of about INR 175 crore-INR 200 crore kind of quarterly run rate? Third is, how do you see the overall cost to income scenario for the company given the competitive environment, particularly on the RM hiring front? Yeah, those would be my questions. Thanks.
Thank you. I think all three are fair questions and I think obviously all three are challenges we live with from a day-to-day basis. I think it's fair to say that, I think from a yield perspective, things are broadly in line. I'm not really kind of too worried about the yields. There will always be a certain degree of pressure. Similarly, on the relationship manager compensation side, ability to recruit people, invest in new businesses, I think they're all kind of phases in some ways. I think if I just look at the metrics standalone, and we do this all the time. I think if you very strongly look at the ultra-high-net-worth business and the asset management business, and you kind of look at it ex of the three kind of acquisitions we did last year.
If I kind of exclude 360 ONE Capital, which was earlier B&K Securities, exclude ET Money and exclude the UBS transaction, both in terms of the flows, the money which came in and the money which went out. I think on the core business, which is the alternative asset management business as well as the wealth management business, I think we've done really well. I think our cost to income really remains in the region of the ZIP code of 44%-46%, which I think is a superb number. I think as we've seen a little bit of churn of teams as well as addition of new teams, and there's a passage of time where the older teams have become more productive and the newer teams are kind of getting to be productive. I think that model for us is very well solved.
I think our ability to get operating leverage there is fairly high. In fact, if you ask me today, I think it's a great opportunity to double down on our brand and attract the right set of wealth managers to our platform. I think the industry is in a phase of consolidation, and we are honestly not scared to kind of attract the right set of people and maybe take a call on building out another 25, 34, 35 relationship managers this year itself and front-ending the growth a little bit. On the wealth management side, very, very confident on our operating model, and I think compared to any other model in the country, I think we'll be able to plug in these relationship managers, the senior relationship managers, into a system like ours substantially faster.
Honestly, I think, outside of normal execution challenges on a business model perspective, I think I'm fairly confident on the ultra-high-net-worth side. On the capital side, obviously, I think, on an average and the B&K business was operating in the ZIP code of the 5 basis points-6 basis points retention. While there is a little bit of an impact, it's not an impact which is very large for us to kind of dramatically change our quarterly numbers. I think it changes by around about 2%-3% on a broad base of around about INR 200 crore-INR 225 crore. It's not really relevant in that sense. I think there are some bit of synergy benefits even to the institutional business which come from us kind of coming together, which more than offsets that change.
Now, on the equity side, as I said earlier, my confidence really on the TBR comes from the ability for us to kind of increase our own equities brokerage from our ultra-high-net-worth clients. The INR 175 crore-INR 200 crore number is not something which is like cast in stone immediately. I think compared to a number which was INR 125 crore-INR 140 crore earlier, I think the INR 160 crore-INR 180 crore seems better right now. Lastly, I think from a relationship manager perspective, I think the war for talent is always there, but I think we're always going to be between the 90th to the 110th percentile. I think, depending on the talent, once it crosses 110th percentile, it becomes tougher even for us to kind of manage. I think there are enough very smart relationship managers there. They're very entrepreneurial.
They know how to build their business, and they know it's a function of not only 110th percentile compensation, but it's a function of the platform. Eventually what they are able to do right by their clients, build their business in an efficient manner. At the same point, while delivering the best for the clients, earn the maximum amount of compensation. I think that's really where it is. Honestly, I agree with you on all the three points, but there are execution challenges, which allow us to kind of grow faster than the industry.
Got that. Thank you.
Thank you, Paresh. Next in line, we have Abhijeet Sakhare. Abhijeet, kindly unmute yourself and ask your question.
Okay. Hi, good evening, everyone.
Hi, Abhijeet.
Thanks, Karan, for the detailed opening remarks. Very useful. I had an industry question, Karan. The overall outlook on the ultra HNI business seems extremely positive from a three-five-year timeframe. I'm just trying to tie in a few statements. One is that whether the industry, you believe, will remain in a consolidation mode over the next few years? Secondly, one would assume that for an industry with such a nice, good growth potential, one would kind of assume that it would tend to get more competitive, right? I think in the past you said that the ultra HNI space clearly has place for one or two more players, right, beyond the top. I'm just trying to kind of connect the dots here to kind of get a perspective on how you're thinking about the growth here.
The 12%-15% opening AUM number that you mentioned, do you believe it has certain risks of once in a while you have these situations where one-off attrition or a large attrition, which tends to kind of throw off the numbers a little bit, given that the state of the industry still seems quite strong, right, in terms of growth outlook?
No, Abhijeet, great question. I think to me, honestly, I think the 12%-15% seems doable. I think it's something which obviously as the size increases it becomes a bigger challenge. I think, honestly, we're in early days and our own assessment of our market share is somewhere between the 8%-10% number. Obviously, we're not able to estimate it to the full best possibility, but I think we would be in the 8%-10% when we look at our 4,500-odd families above INR 10 crore with us. I personally feel we have the ability to increase that to 8,000-10,000 families, which gets us closer to the 12%-15% market share. I think if we move towards the 8,000-10,000 families on a bottom-up basis, I think that 12%-15% AUM kind of comes through.
Do we have the middle to the top management layer on the wealth management side to attract these relationship managers? I think the answer is yes. That kind of leads me into one aspect of the question that you were asking, how consolidated does the industry stay? I think that's a real great question, and honestly, I think it's fair to say that the size of the industry does require at least three, four. Potentially can have three, four more larger players. Having said that, I think obviously, it's like in most industries, size begets size. I think in some ways it will require somebody to kind of have a strong commercial mindset, put in a large amount of capital, as well as potentially kind of attract the right set of people to be able to kind of build it out quicker.
I personally am actually a little surprised and, honestly, positively surprised. I think the industry continues to remain fairly consolidated. I think it stays this way over the next three-four years. Will there be a couple of more players? I'm sure there will be. I think our own, in terms of comfort, brand, ability to attract people, never felt more comfortable. I think that gives us a fairly good position. I think overall a tighter market helps us consolidate faster. I think while I hear you on the attrition point, I think that continues to be a risk. Honestly, I think with God's grace, we build a very diversified business. Our team, if you see today also, continues to, I think more than 60%-65% of our team would have spent more than eight-nine years with us.
I think in general, it's a platform where people like to work, people like to invest their time, people like to learn. I think we balance our time very well between learning and ensuring that we're able to give the right value to our clients. If I was to look back at the last six months, or rather last April to now, and if there's one thing I would say is our biggest achievement for the last 12 months is the kind of talent we've attracted on the wealth management side, both in markets like Delhi, Bangalore, where we had some attrition, as well as in Bombay. I think we've attracted some super relationship managers in all the three places. That's really kind of made us much more resilient than ever before. Similarly on the investment side. I feel quite confident.
While obviously we don't want attrition by any margin, I think we have to be prepared for 2%-4% attrition every year.
Thanks, Karan. Just one more question. I think in the past you've mentioned that typically in a given year, almost 50% of flows come from new client additions. I just wanted to understand, in a period where the RM competition intensity is very strong, how does that play out with respect to your market share between flows from existing clients versus new clients?
I think, Abhijeet, it's a challenge always. To be honest, I think, we've been beneficiaries. Okay, I would say net addition to high-quality relationship managers for us has been a positive. I'm honestly not complaining in that sense, but it's obviously a risk. I think it's eventually a last-mile business, so our ability to attract the right set of talent and ensure that, I would say, it has to follow an order, right? If you need 10,000 families, we need 280, 300 super bankers. All bankers at any point of time won't have 35 relationships, so some of them would not be phenomenally productive. Maybe average will be closer to 30. You need 325, 330 super bankers. Is it easy to go from 180, 200 senior bankers to 330? The answer is no.
If there is any platform which can do that and attract those right set of people, it's really us. Honestly, I think we see that ability to do that in the next 12 - 18 months. Like I said earlier, I think our own business model and understanding of the business on the ultra-high-net-worth side, we feel very confident to be able to move from that 200 to 300 number because we've got operating efficiencies of scale. I think there will be some challenges along the way. There will be some attrition, some competition, some outsized compensation. Honestly, I think as long as we stay our path, keep our heads down, I think we can move from the 200 to 300, 325 bankers.
Thanks a lot, Karan.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next in line, we have Gaurav Jain. Gaurav, kindly unmute yourself and ask your question.
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity, and congratulations on a steady set of numbers. Just two data keeping kind of questions from my side. One is, I'm not sure if you've already said, but what is this delta in TBR that we basically saw in Q4? If you can help us understand which particular set or line item helped in this quarter, that will be helpful. Second is, since it is first year of completion of B&K post-acquisition, not full completion, but major completion. Key headline numbers of B&K, say, operating revenue, other income impact, that would be really helpful, Karan.
Gaurav, I'll give you some broad numbers. I'll start with the second and then come back to your first question. Broadly, I think B&K numbers have been very, very steady for the last 10 months as compared to the year previous to that. I think broadly speaking, we had INR 230 crore-INR 250 crore top line, INR 220 crore-INR 250 crore top line in the year previous. We've been broadly around that range. In fact, added around about 6%-7%, largely driven by early integration on the corporate treasury platform, where some of our large wealth management clients with large corporate treasuries have got introduced to the B&K platform. Slight market share gain on the equity side. From a PBT perspective also pretty much in line. B&K had a PBT at the point of acquisition of approximately INR 100 crore-INR 105 crore.
This year we'll finish in the ballpark region of INR 105 crore-INR 110 crore before any specific acquisition-related costs. Overall, I think those are the broad numbers on the B&K side. Largely steady year. Potentially an increase of 3%-4% on the overall business. We need to remember our approvals and so on and so forth for B&K Capital to become 360 ONE Capital, as well as common research and stuff like that. It's happened only maybe in the last 15-30 days. Integration would kind of hopefully all benefits start coming in soon enough. Obviously, teams, culture, all is integrated, but just ensuring that businesses can also get integrated as fast as possible. On the first point. Sorry, I forgot the
It was on TBR, Karan.
Yeah.
About the delta.
No, no. Sorry, it was your advisory AUM. What are the heads? Largely on the advisory, I think, on the net flows, approximately INR 9,000 crore-INR 10,000 crore on net flows. It's a mix largely of advisory, a little bit of product distribution and largely on the asset management side. Asset management side is around about INR 2,500 crore. Advisory is in the region ballpark of INR 4,500 crore or INR 5,000 crore. The net amount coming from distribution assets would be the balancing amount of INR 2,500 crore, including the lending book. That's the broad split of INR 9,500 crore. On the TBR, on the delta versus quarter three, it's largely as I said earlier, it's a mix of asset classes.
I think what we've done extremely well on Q4 in terms of equity, in terms of asset classes, has been a combination of fixed income, some bit of REITs and InvITs, and potentially a couple of transactions on the high-yielding fixed income side.
Okay. Just one last question, Karan. We saw some brokers taking some stress on the MTF book. Given the volatility in Q4, was there any stress or anything that you saw in your lending book where you were uncomfortable, or was it everything under control in spite of the volatility in bullion and equity?
We don't have any margin funding book yet. Our margin funding book's less than INR 50 crore-INR 60 crore, I think. We really don't have a margin funding book, because as a broker, we really don't do MTF. On our lending book, which is largely a loan against shares book, which is collateralized at 2x, typically, on a diversified portfolio, fortunately, we've not seen any stress at all.
Yeah. Got it. Thanks.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next in line, we have Dipanjan Ghosh. Dipanjan, kindly unmute and ask your question.
Yeah. Hey, Karan. Good evening. A few questions from my side. First, in terms of the incremental clients that you're onboarding on the platform and versus, let's say, what you were onboarding five-six years back, some color on differences in quality of the customer, ticket size, whether these are individuals or family offices. I mean, has there been any change in this mix? In this context, do you see any differentiation that you need to create on either servicing or products? Or maybe is there a wallet share division which is far higher in these new customers versus, let's say, the erstwhile customer? Some color on the customer quality would be helpful. The second question is, you kind of articulated on the carry income math in one of the previous participant's questions.
If you can kind of give some color on the funds that are in the pipeline for exit for the next two-three years, and whether you are comfortably over the hurdle expectations in those funds. If you can just walk through the math in a little bit of detail, that will be really helpful because we don't get access to some of these in the public domain. Third would be a housekeeping question. In terms of your ARR assets, if you can kind of split the gross flows for the quarter and full year?
Sorry, gross flows for the?
For the ARR, active ARR assets in the wealth segment. Also on the AUM, basically the gross sales process, because we get the net new money number.
Got it. Okay, that I'll have to just depend on Sanjay or Anshuman for. I'll just for the gross flows numbers. I can answer the first two questions by the time they can look at the gross flows numbers. Obviously on the mutual fund side, looking at the gross flows won't help because they'll have liquid funds and debt funds and stuff like that. On the Alternates side, I think the gross flows will definitely help. Sanjay, maybe you can just pull it out on the Alternates side.
Yeah, doing that.
On the incremental client on platform quality of clients, obviously, I think it's a great question. I think the type of clients have become much more broader, and the depth has also increased. Today, there is obviously a, I won't call it a new kind of client, but a much more sophisticated client, which is the family office. It would be safe to say there are 300-350 such family offices across the country who are substantially more sophisticated, who are able to take decisions faster, who are able to cut much larger checks. Most importantly, are willing to participate with us pretty much as partners across the entire platform rather than just kind of allocating us INR 100 and say, kind of just manage it on a portfolio advisory basis. That class of clients maybe would've been 40-50 five years back.
Today, definitely that number is close to 400 to 500 clients. Outside of that, I think generally speaking, our client base has become slightly, on the ultra high net worth side, has become slightly larger in terms of average AUM. That's largely a function of the fact that it's a portfolio-based approach as opposed to a product-based approach. Most of our relationship managers, while onboarding the clients, will talk about asset allocation, product selection, not ensuring more than 25% in a single product, not ensuring more than 15% in a single asset manager. It's a much more richer discussion on the portfolio as opposed to the product. That obviously kind of moves the minimums up slightly more. From a client segmentation perspective, I think a portfolio-based approach as opposed to a product-based approach is leading to a slightly higher ticket size.
Third, I think there's much more diversity of clients from a background and geography perspective. I think geography is obviously substantially more diverse as compared to the first six, seven cities, and background also is much more diverse. I think it's now fair to say professionals and professional entrepreneurs are nearly 15%-20% of the client base. The same number used to be 5%-10%. In that sense, I think, whether you look at companies which have been started by professionals, and professionals who own any number between 2.5%-10%, plus corporate lawyers, plus movie stars and Bollywood professionals, as well as sports people. Even doctors, right? So I think overall the length and breadth of professionals have increased diversification and geographies.
Family offices are deep and, obviously, I think what we need to work on, again, maybe one of our weaker areas, but we need to work hard on getting more participation from domestic institutions and insurance companies, which have become key contributors to alternative investment funds. Second, obviously, I think, on the ARR assets, have you got the numbers, Sanjay, broadly?
Yeah, I have broadly got. For AMC, the gross flow for the quarter is around INR 5,200 crore. For the full year, it is INR 19,000 crore.
Yeah. We had a great quarter on the asset management side in terms of flows. It's nearly INR 5,200 crore. We've also had three funds on the one large fund on the credit side, which came up for maturity, which was nearly INR 1,500-INR 1,700 crore. One of our real estate funds came up for maturity, which was INR 850-odd crore. I think we had a distribution from one of our private equity funds with a 2021 vintage. That basically resulted in a net outflow of around INR 2,500 crore-INR 2,600 crore, which has resulted in the INR 5,300 crore coming down to the INR 2,300 crore-INR 2,400 crore number.
Karan, maybe on the carry bit, if you can.
Yeah, sorry. On the carry, I think I'll give the operating principles and I'll leave it to Sanjay to figure out how to maybe potentially give a list of funds and AUM, date of maturity, because it's all there in the public domain. Maybe we can just compile it and put it in the data book as one Excel document. At an operating philosophy level, obviously, I think we want to care. In a very conservative and simple way to explain it, we typically start looking at carry only once the fund has met the hurdle for the entire life of the fund. Okay, that's really when the carry kind of starts kicking in. If it's a five-year fund or a six-year fund, it effectively has to beat the carry for the entire time period, and only then does the fund become carryable in any way.
Once the fund becomes carryable, obviously, we take a slight bit of a discount in terms of market values and stuff like that, and then start accounting for it. At the simplest level, it's not as if we are measuring the fund after one year and it has to meet the hurdle after one year, and then we start accounting for carry. It has to meet the hurdle for the entire lifetime value, lifetime of the fund, and only then it kind of comes into carry. I would say, outside of large market variations, the carry which we are carrying is quite conservative and within range. In terms of an overall fund list and broad maturity dates and so on and so forth, and maybe just a comment whether the fund is a carry fund or a fixed fee fund.
Maybe Sanjay can put it up on Excel.
Sure, Karan. If I can just chip in one small question on the UBS bit where you gave some color. In terms of referrals, how has been the traction, any initial data point? And also your product on UBS's AMC's platform, as in your AMC product on their platform, when can we expect some things on those lines? That's also-
I think, to be honest, that's been slightly slower. It's more not from a desire to do it. I think both of us want to do it as fast as possible. I think just from a regulatory approval process, both in GIFT City and as well as on the UBS platform, I think it's taken slightly longer. Hopefully we'll see it happen over the next quarter or so, yeah.
Got it. Thank you. On the-
Thank you.
Thank you. Next in line. In the interest of time, request you to kindly restrict yourself to not more than two questions. Next in line, we have Siddharth. Siddharth, kindly unmute yourself and ask your question.
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. A few questions from my end. On a quarter-over-quarter basis, we've seen net flows sort of coming down, which, say, in another case, with obviously a more retail brokerage, have remained more or less steady. Would you say that's been more attrition-led or clients pulling out money? Or is it more avoidance of deployment given the volatile situation? That was question number one. Question number two, which you've sort of spoken about the whole DPMS flows, right? On the other hand, there is a sharp rise in the retentions, both on the wealth and the asset management side, specifically for the discretionary PMS. Is that more a function of new money coming in at higher retentions? Or is it more the older sort of lower priced AUM going out? And how are you seeing this from an outpricing risk, right?
Given that, especially on the asset management side, obviously, there is that competitive intensity. The third question was, if you could give us some color on the distribution assets, where the net flow is a negative number. How much of that is the net flow from UHNI, given that HNI would obviously have net positive cash flows? Distribution assets from UHNIs, what's the net negative net flow? Yeah, these were my three questions.
Got it. Anil, do you want to just take the next question also and then I'll answer together? Yeah.
Yeah.
One more question you said, right?
We have Nidesh on the line. Nidesh, you'll have to unmute yourself and ask your question, then we can just take it together.
Thanks for the opportunity. I've two questions. One is, if you can share the breakdown of FPI income in terms of listed equity, unlisted equity, institutional equity, debt and others for the quarter. Second is, if I look at team leader count and RM count. In last three years, the team leader count is broadly stable. I think in the RM count also, there have been additions on the HNI team. UHNI team RM count may be stable. Though our client base has gone up, so how are we managing span of each team leader and how we plan to, let's say, scale the team leader from the next three to five-year perspective, given that there is intense competition and last three years also, the count has been broadly flat? Yeah, these are the two questions.
Got it. I think I'll start with the questions earlier. I think, broadly speaking, on the ARR asset side, it's very tough on the net flow side. As I've indicated before, very tough to look at on a Q-on-Q basis. Typically, we have a good side on a yearly basis. Obviously, I think not strictly comparable to a brokerage platform. I think on a yearly basis, with some variations on a Q-on-Q basis, I think we hope to be around the 10%- 12% - 14% kind of range. We've typically seen quarters have a little bit of a variation. Obviously, onboarding cycles are different. Clients take sometimes a little bit longer to onboard. Typically, sometimes businesses pass on from one quarter to the other in terms of quarterly flows. Really nothing significant between Q3, Q4 in terms of decline.
I wouldn't read too much into a Q2 to Q3 increase in flows, also. It's more or less a quarterly deviation as opposed to a trend there. The DPMS retention, again, there's no trend there. I think Q4 typically has a bit of a profit share, and that kind of has led to a little bloated amount of retentions on a very small base. Again, on the discretionary PMS side, pretty much within the standards, and retentions continue to remain within the range. I think it gets kind of uniform on a yearly basis as opposed to just looking at Q4 itself. Largely, distribution assets is not really a large function of negative net flows. It's largely a little bit of an extent of mark to market, which obviously has resulted in a slightly lower trail income as compared to last quarter.
On the TBR income split, I'll kind of give a broader level split, which is what we disclose. I think broadly around about 30%-35%, give or take 60%-80% gross comes from largely a combination of listed and listed related equity. Half of that largely coming from private equity investment banking, M&A activities. Around about a third comes from largely fixed income and fixed income yield plus and real estate. It's broadly a third, a third, a third between these three asset classes. On the team leader RM count, it's a great question. I think very rightly pointed out, I think we've been at 75-80 or 70-75 senior leaders at scale over the last three odd years. Where we've really, I think improved is our ratio to senior leaders to relationship managers.
I think on the ultra high net worth side, we want to kind of have our minimum recruitment benchmark at what we call is the partner equivalent. Effectively, you should have had at least six-seven or maybe eight years of experience in a retail prior to set up. That's really where that becomes, in some senses, our entry level into the ultra high net worth business. I think that's really where I think we've kind of seen a good change in mix, I would say a healthy change in mix. We've been able to optimize the number, and make it a much more productive number as compared to what we had earlier. Not only that, our average talent pool on the partner base is substantially better than what we had five years back.
It's both a quality improvement as well as a quantity optimization. I think with the quality improvement, there's automatic adjustment in span of control. I'll be very happy with where we are today. Having said that, obviously we need to move that 75 number, as I said earlier, to potentially 120-130 and potentially improve the 110-120 partner level to around about 240. Effectively take our current count of 180-190 to 330-340.
What is the count of RMs in HNI segment as of March 2024?
On a closing basis, 63-64.
Sure.
Thank you.
Karan, just a follow-up on the DPMS net flows. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but from what it shows here, on the wealth side, the DPMS has a negative net flow of INR 212 crore for distribution assets.
Okay.
Is that including the MTM, or is that net negative flows?
Net flows without MTM.
How much of that would be net negative for you HNI and how much of it would be, I'm assuming HNI is obviously positive because that'd be a very small base?
Largely INR 212 crore would be ultra HNI only.
Karan, it's corporate treasuries which has contributed to the negative number this quarter.
Got it. Thank you.
Thank you. I think that's all we have time for today. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us this evening.
Thank you. Thank you, everybody.
Thank you.
Thanks for all the effort. Thank you.
Thank you.