Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Pelsia, moderator for the conference call. Welcome to 5paisa Capital Limited Q2 FY 2026 earnings conference call. We have with us today Mr. Gaurav Seth, MD and CEO, and Mr. Gaurav Munjal, Whole-Time Director and CFO, and Mr. Ameya Agnihotri, Whole-time Director and CTO from 5paisa Capital Limited. As a reminder, all participants will be in listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star and then zero on your touch-tone telephone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand over the floor to Mr. Gaurav Seth. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the quarter two FY 2026 earnings call. Let me start off with giving a little bit of background on what happened in the last quarter. So during Q2 FY 2026, equity markets remained volatile amid tariff-related uncertainties, persistent FII outflows, and rising geopolitical tensions. That weighed on investor sentiment. While sustained FII selling kept market sentiment subdued, domestic institutional investors continued to act as a strong counterbalancing force. In the last quarter, foreign institutional investors recorded net outflows exceeding $100 billion, whereas domestic, sorry, exceeded $10 billion in outflows, whereas domestic institutional investors' inflows crossed $20 billion. These trends impacted overall market participation, with cash market ADTO declining 16.7% quarter-on-quarter to INR 39,770 crores and F&O ADTO on a premium basis falling 13.6% quarter-on-quarter to INR 55,570 crores at the industry level.
Despite this moderation, the industry MTF book surpassed INR 1 lakh crore, reflecting resilient investor leverage appetite even in a volatile environment. Despite these challenging external backdrops, our focus remains on delivering best-in-class solutions, high-quality customer acquisition, and ensuring a strong lifetime value from each acquired customer. During this quarter, we executed several initiatives to drive relevant and cost-efficient acquisition, including a major SEO or search engine optimization turnaround, enhanced brand awareness campaigns across social and offline channels, and focused engagement events. These efforts led to a 20% quarter-on-quarter increase in new customer acquisition to over 95,000 customers, while our customer acquisition costs reduced by 15%, and the first-year revenue FYR improved by 25%, resulting in a more efficient payback profile. Our total customer base has now crossed 5 million, which is INR 50 lakh overall customers' milestone.
Our average daily turnover rose 19% quarter-on-quarter to INR 2.67 trillion, underscoring robust trading activity. We also accelerated growth in our MTF business through introducing competitive interest rates, starting as low as 0.026% per day, an expanded universe of eligible securities from 700 to over 1,200, and targeted marketing initiatives. These measures yielded encouraging results. MTF income grew by 22% quarter-on-quarter, and the average client funding book expanded 17% quarter-on-quarter to INR 364 crores. Our mutual fund AUM increased to INR 1,647 crore, which is up 4.7% sequentially over the previous quarter.
Despite market headwinds, total income for Q2 FY 2026 remained steady at INR 77.3 crores, broadly in line with the previous quarter. Marginal rise in expenses was mainly driven by higher marketing and branding investments to strengthen acquisition quality and by higher finance costs linked to MTF income growth. Net for the quarter stood at INR 9.48 crore, which is down 18% quarter-on-quarter.
During the quarter, we also raised funds through commercial paper to support the MTF book expansion, ensuring adequate liquidity for future scaling. As of September 30th, 2025, our net worth stood at INR 626 crores. Now, on the product and technology front, we continue to enhance trading efficiency, user experience, and platform depth. Several key upgrades were implemented during the quarter to improve speed, analytics, onboarding, and payments, further reinforcing our position as a next-generation trading ecosystem for both active traders and long-term investors. We upgraded our digital onboarding journey with the introduction of real-time bank verification, PAN fetch via mobile, and a PIN-less Digi Locker integration for effortless KYC. Additionally, we launched a dedicated in-app ETF dashboard, one-stop interface for smart ETF investing, and enhanced payment gateways to ensure faster and smoother SIP payment processing for mutual fund investors.
We also revamped MTF journey by introducing a Pay Later option, enabling an unlimited holding period and offering a seamless convert-to-delivery feature for enhanced flexibility. For traders, we introduced the Scalper platform on the web, a unified interface built for speed, precision, and smarter trading decisions. The platform features a three-in-one charting interface with predefined templates, enabling ultra-fast order execution and convenient keyboard shortcuts for enhanced trading efficiency. We also launched a strategy analyzer on our FNO360 platform, enabling traders to view payoff charts, combine open interests, and break-even insights, along with the Alpha Scan, which is offering 50 pre-built scanners for faster strategy discovery and enhanced decision-making. Lastly, we have successfully implemented semi-standardized validated UPI handles, enabling faster, safer, and fully compliant transactions for our users. We remain committed to continuous innovation, strengthening our product and technology stack while leveraging AI to further enhance customer experience and engagement.
With that, I conclude my opening remarks and now invite the floor for any questions. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question-and-answer session. If you have a question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad and wait for your turn to ask the question. If you would like to withdraw your request, you may do so by pressing star and one again. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad. We will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad.
I can see Mr. Heet Modi, I guess. Please check.
The first question comes from Heet Modi from RV Investments. Please go ahead.
Good morning, sir. Sir, any specific reason for de-grossing in your revenue from last September 2025?
So overall, if you look, the income or the revenue is 1% down compared to the last quarter. So it's not a significant degrowth. Overall, volumes for the industry have also fallen in the last quarter, as I think mentioned in my speech, by 16% for cash and about 14% for F&O. So our growth, I mean, our reduction in revenue is in line with those numbers.
Sir, my next question is, if you...
Yes, please go ahead.
If we see Demat account based in a Q2, so it's 207 million. But if we see active clients, it's only 46%. I t's very low now. There's a specific reason for it.
You're talking about our active base?
Yes.
Industry level.
As compared to Demat account base, there are 207 million Demat accounts, but active clients are only 46 million.
Sir, he's asking at industry level. The total percentage is not 46%; it is coming 25%. So overall, INR 20 crore Demat account is there, and only INR 5 crore is active. The question is around the same.
Exactly.
Okay. So I see that at an end. So I can answer at both, not so much at an industry level. I can give you that perspective at our specific to 5paisa. But in general, there are people who have come into the market who are not either they came into the market for making quick gains during the entire frenzy, and some of them also came into the market and opened F&O accounts as well as investment accounts. And when there is volatility and there is no easy way out or easy money to be made, they basically, what happens is that start to fall off. I mean, this is typically, even if you ignore the numbers, this is a typical behavior.
So while a lot of the platforms, including us, end up opening these accounts, a lot of them actually then start to fall off or become inactive, or either they become completely inactive or their activity overall starts to reduce. And it is only natural, right? I mean, this investing and including trading is a long-term journey. So you have to be in the market for some time. You have to continuously upgrade yourself, and you have to have effective risk management. And that is something that we espouse through all of the sessions that we do, both online. In fact, a lot of investment that we are doing in offline sessions imparting that philosophy, how to become a better trader, how to become a better investor. So that is really the reason.
In our case, I think our number is closer to either 392,000 or between 395,000 to INR 4 lakh active base. If we compare the number of active clients who are trading, even, so we take a lot of multiple metrics. When we take how many people are active on a single day who are passing orders and who are doing on a monthly basis, it is actually almost in line with what was there in Q1. So Q1 and Q2, it is almost in line. And there is a reduction of about INR 10 lakh orders on a quarterly basis. Over a three-month period, there is a reduction of INR 10 lakh orders from these clients, right? So definitely some part of macro and some part of market has taken a toll on the activity.
Sure, sir. Sir, any growth guidance for FY 2026?
Any, sorry?
Growth guidance for revenue and growth ?
No, I'd not like to make any forward-looking statements because a lot of what we do is based on no matter how well we do on the product side and marketing side, it's also dependent on the markets. So yeah, but we are heads down into execution on improving our product. That is our primary focus. So we continue to do that.
Also, is H2 will be same as H1, or it will be better?
We expect it to be better, but the markets have to contribute equally, right? So that is something I can't predict. I'm hoping that H2 will be better.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from Sonal Minhas from Prescient Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, this is Sonal Minhas. I hope I'm audible. I have two questions. Sir, first, I wanted to understand since you've been relentlessly focusing on optimizing your client acquisition costs. So what is an LTV, which is a baseline that you're okay with? And how would you compare that to, let's say, market leaders? If you could just objectively share something around what is the time horizon of break-even of a particular client that you're okay with as per your funnels, if you could just share some.
Sure. Sure. So our latest checks are in the range of INR 700-INR 750, which is the client acquisition cost. And our first-year revenue is kind of in the range of between INR 1,000-INR 1,200. Typically, our sweet spot, we would want to answer your question, a six to seven-month payback period for our clients, for the clients that we acquire. Obviously, it varies sometimes less, sometimes more, but this is what we would like it to be. And that is best in class if you look at the industry as well.
Great, and this revenue that you speak about, this stays over a time slice of one year, two years, three years, or there is a tapering of revenue of these clients as they mature with you?
Yeah. So typically, what ends up happening is that there is, so what I'm giving you is an FYR, which is the first-year revenue number. But over a period of time, on an average, there is decay, right? Now, it varies. Sometimes it is, for certain clients, it could be as high as 40% in year two and then 15% after that, and so on and so forth. So when we do our projections and our numbers, we typically account that decay into the mix that if I'm INR 100 from someone, then it probably would become INR 70 after end year one or INR 60 after year one, so on and so forth. Yes. So yes, to answer your question, yes, there is a decay in FYR over a period of time from new clients.
Understand that. Another thing, speaking about your product rollout, you've explained the features in the app. Is there an NPS score because you have operating CSAT given in the slide deck? Is there an NPS score which you track? I'm sure you would, but which you can share for us to understand how good is the app, how good is the platform, how good is the satisfaction of the customers basically on the platform?
Yeah. So I'll give you my personal opinion on NPS. So we do track NPS from time to time. But usually, it is more what I've seen is that the NPS ratings do come up randomly for, I'm not talking about 5paisa, but it's basically about industry, right? And it is really on the mood of the customer. So if you're in a good mood, everything is going right. You push. I'm talking about how this is done. An NPS score is shown to the customer, and they might go anything from 1- 10, right? And nine comes, and you're very happy. And five comes, you're very, very not that happy, right? So the right metrics to be used, which we think of it as CSAT scores, etc., which are very more focused on a function, right?
So let's say, in our case, if you have a problem, if you're closing a ticket with customer service or how you're doing a particular transaction on the app, whether it is a derivative transaction or a cash transaction, or how you are, let's say, doing a pay in trying to move funds. So all of those are specific transactions. I mean, my view is that those are more indicative of actual customer satisfaction than NPS scores in general. But we typically refer to app ratings as a guiding light because that is something which is public, which is something which people typically, if they are taking time to go and write them, we take them very, very seriously. And our endeavor is also to continuously keep scaling the app rating, both on Android and on the App Store.
Got it. Got it, sir. All right. I'll fall back in if you have some questions. I'll fall back in if you—yeah. Thanks.
Okay. Thank you.
Thanks.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad. I repeat, ladies and gentlemen, if you have any question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad. We have a follow-up question from Sonal Minhas from Prescient Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks for taking my question. Given the fact that I wanted to understand more the zoomed-out market dynamics, the way I think things are playing out in the whole discount brokerage, brokerage space, just wanted to understand from a positioning perspective, I think you focused on product specifications. You focused on client customer satisfaction. How does, let's say, a customer who's coming in, he or she distinguish you from, let's say, the top five other players in the market? And are the product features good enough retention metrics for them to stay put with you? Anything which you can share in regard to retention of customers apart from product or around the product, that will be helpful just to figure out how you plan to go given the space is fairly cluttered, to my understanding ?Yeah.
Yeah. No, I mean, that goes without saying. So yes, completely agree with your statement and observation. Space is cluttered. It's hyper-competitive. So I'll give you a little bit of a background. So I think we've been in the space for a very long time. I mean, the fact is that in this space for longer than most players who the most common names that you see now who have really come up after post-COVID when there was this whole market expansion and the Demat accounts were 10x, whatever, right? INR 20 crore Demat accounts and so on and so forth. So we have a legacy. We know this space very well. There is definitely so there are two aspects to this business as I see it. One is obviously awareness, right? So unless you are aware, you won't go and download 5paisa or for that matter, any other app.
That is something that we definitely have to raise a profile on from an awareness perspective, which is a combination of brand, marketing, and so on and so forth. And we're basically making a lot of changes and investments in that area. So people start to identify not that they don't, but the newer and newer people start to identify with the brand, etc. Now, on top of that, I think the major thing is even if you get a customer to the app or to the platform in this space, I believe it is very, very important to have a great product. And once you've experienced and when you have 10 other options or five other options, the retention is a direct function of two things in my mind. One is pricing, where you would, it's already discounted.
So a lot of players out there are anyway discount brokers or zero brokers and so on and so forth, right? So there's not much to do there. So the second thing becomes product. So especially if you're a power user, and our focus has been on power users, right? So people who are in the market who are serious traders and serious investors, they know 5paisa, or at least once you experience the product, they know that this is a place you can stay. In terms of the feature set itself is concerned, it's very, very complete from a product standpoint. And we continually build that because it is always work in progress.
In this space, you can never say that, "Look, you are completely done." And we've done a lot of work over the last three years, and it continues in terms of completely upgrading our tech stack, changing our user experience, and so on and so forth. And you will see a lot of changes coming in next year as well. So our strategy definitely is to raise awareness, but it's also more so that when people try us, they want to stick with us. Now, the features which are available are definitely best in class, definitely on the brokerage side, which only very few of our peers are offering. So if you're a serious trader, 5paisa does offer you the entire set, which a novice trader might say, "Okay, I can go get it somewhere else." But if you're a seasoned guy, you would get it in 5paisa.
Understand that. And where would that show up in terms of metrics that are available to public market investors like us? If I were to just triangulate that with data, so just trying to figure it out.
I mean, that doesn't show up separately in terms of numbers that we publish, unfortunately, because we would publish our customer number, and we'll publish our revenue and the financials and what we've acquired, etc. But typically, the metric I can't share with you, but it typically shows up in the ARPU or the average revenue per user, right? So even though you might have fewer customers, but the average ARPUs or the average revenue per user is higher, which is true for us. So we look at that, and then we see. So what is the level of activity of a user on your platform? And the level of activity of the user of the platform directly translates to one is to activity and their comfort and their trust in the platform, and second, directly to revenue.
Got it.
Because you could onboard.
Yes. Sorry. Go ahead.
No, I think that you could onboard, and then somebody else had the question. You could onboard, and then they go dormant, so that doesn't mean anything, and that will show up in your average revenue per user.
Sure, so your broking income light revenue divided by active users is a good top-of-the-funnel number that somebody can track, basically, just to triangulate with others because not many people share ARPU in this industry, yeah, publicly.
Our focus is actually very easy. Also, you need to add other income because other income includes I understand it includes float income, but ultimately, it's a part of income. I mean, which is what local is getting. So if you divide I'm just doing the simple math. We have active customer base of INR 3.8 lakhs, so you just divide with INR 77 crore, you'll get the number, which comes around, I mean, 8,000, 9,000 per year. So this is the.
This is the number. Okay. So another question around this, given that you have excelled in terms of your features for power users, directionally, if not now, let's say maybe a three, four-year kind of an outlook, does it make a natural sense for you to become a platform like AlphaGrep, where you're also giving algos to people? I'm just, that's just an example, but it's an extension where you have algos and people come and trade on platform. Just trying to build it up.
Yeah. Yeah. No, I can take that. I can take that. So in any case, today, we have an algo offering, right? So there are APIs or open APIs that we expose. And there are a lot of our customers, both on retail side and I mean, basically, it's all retail. Either it's retail through partners or it's direct retail. They use our APIs to run algo strategies on our platform. So our platform supports algos in the first place, and we've been doing this for a long time. And we're also building something which is our own algos and so on and so forth, which is in the pipeline, which you would see coming through, I think, too. You were alluding to AlphaGrep. So yes, that is definitely something that we're looking at.
Because otherwise, it's very difficult to differentiate in this space given how things are. Everybody is pricing down. So that is a natural direction for somebody to take. And I'm just trying to think aloud and trying to take your feedback on it, basically. That's why.
No, no. It's a great suggestion. Thank you.
Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for taking my question. That's about it from my side. Thank you.
Yeah.
Thank you. The next question comes from Prince Aakash, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Hello. Can you hear me?
Yes. Yes. Go ahead, please.
Yeah. Thank you, sir. Thank you for taking my question. I just have one single question that just in case the industry trends and the trading and everything keeps like this, it stays a bit suppressed. Do you see yourself or maybe an industry-wide phenomenon where you think that the charges on the delivery investment side, they might increase going forward? If not industry-wide, maybe do you see yourself doing that?
Great question. We already, I mean, we've always taken the view that the services that are provided have to stand on their own. We anyway charge INR 20 for equity delivery. Of course, F&O is charged in any case. To your larger point, I think my personal view, okay, so this is me as an individual, I think, yes, you could see a rise in or people will start to charge for things that are completely free because the cross-subsidization of services is going to end, right? Whether it is acquiring via mutual funds and going to F&O trading, or whether it is not charging for equity delivery and so on and so forth.
That is why you see in the market people building MTF books, people talking about starting to charge for or starting to charge something, whatever that might be, INR 5, INR 10, INR 15, INR 30, INR 20, could be anything. But yes, it is likely to go that way because the volumes are going to be further impacted, then some of the decisions will have to be taken. That's my personal view.
So just a follow-up thing. Do you have any plans for doing this by yourself or in your forthcoming? Or would you like to jump in as the industry does this widespread?
Sorry, if you don't mind, I did not follow the question.
I was asking that whether do you have any plans like that already set in that you would increase the delivery rate prices and everything? Or would you jump in as the industry applies this industry-wide?
No, we don't have any specific plans at the moment, but these are things that we have to assess from time to time. As I said, we are not free on equity delivery. We already charge INR 20. So for us, it's less of an issue.
Okay. Good. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Chinmay Nema from Prescient Capital. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir. So I just wanted to follow up on the previous question about the dormant users. So behaviorally, are these people who you expect to start trading again once broadly the environment recovers and trading activity starts? Or are these people who could have also moved to new apps or who could have stopped using the platform, and then you'll have to I mean, they'll bear new customer acquisition costs before you can expect revenue from them?
It depends. There is no plain vanilla broad brush answer to this. Typically, why people go dormant, there are a couple of reasons. One reason of dormancy is that it is very genuine. For example, you have some kind of a financial constraint, and you're not making returns in the market, and you have to deploy capital. And we've heard this client feedback ourselves, where they have no problem with the platform. They are just kind of constraining their trades for a while. And as the markets recover or their financial situation or liquidity situation improves, they come back with full force. And that core is a great user, and we get that feedback all the time. There is a certain I don't know.
I can't say what is the percentage of that, but there are people who are so these are the people who eventually recover, right? So they go dormant, but the dormancy is not permanent. So they come back. Then there is a second category of users who don't know what they're doing. And as I said, they entered in a frenzy, especially in trading, and maybe they didn't make some losses, so they want to just kind of step back from the market, reassess the situation, and learn and come back again. So those are the ones who are likely to go permanently dormant for a while. And then there is a third category of people who would go for other apps because the pricing is better or they like the product better. It is equally possible.
So from our perspective, we continuously poll clients whenever we see sort of unusual dormancy beyond certain norms. And then we try to incorporate if it is a pricing suggestion, then we see if it makes sense or not. But if it is a product suggestion, typically, we almost nine out of 10 times act on it. And we put it in the roadmap if that feedback is being received from multiple customers. Even if it is a great feedback from one customer, we act on it because we don't want people to leave and go for other platforms. For situations where I have no issues and my liquidity situation doesn't permit me to invest in the market, so that's why I'm dormant.
That happens also on mutual funds because people pause their SIPs for a while and so on and so forth, which is natural behavior. It's nothing to be concerned about.
Sure. Got it. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Vidur Dayal. An individual investor. Please go ahead.
Hi, Gaurav. Am I audible?
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Hi, Gaurav. So I've been watching the company for a while, and the product upgrade cycle happened with your predecessors. I think it's almost two years now. So the question I had was that, are we trying to catch up with people who are ahead of us, or are we trying to exceed them? So there are at least four companies that I see: Angel , Groww, Zerodha, and Dhan, which are, I think, at least 20x our size. So you have an ambition to be a top three or a top five player. So how do we expect to catch up?
Okay. So yes, you're right that some of these upgrades have been happening even with it's not that we started this year. So I think there are two parts to it. One part is the core tech transformation because we have had, also in some cases, certain technologies which are proprietary, like ROMS, RMS, and certain things on the front end, like our Flutter upgrade and so on and so forth. Those had to be done. This is hard work. It's not easy that you can do it in a day. So those are things that have been completed. I think last year, we completed a complete move to Flutter. And right now, we are in the midst of kind of replatforming our core system, which we expect to conclude and finally do the transition sometime in next quarter.
Yes, it is tough because the standards are high, and there are new people coming in. They have a blank slate to start with the product, whereas in existing structure, we have to work through some of the pieces that need to be transformed first and some decisions to be taken, which takes a little bit of a time. So I don't know if that answers your question, but to catch up is, after a certain point in time, we don't want to put a benchmark of someone else to our situation. We know what we are strong at. And going forward, all of the product improvements are obviously, we look at competition. We look at the names that you're talking about.
But we are setting our own independent product roadmap to either be better than them or at par with them, whatever you want to call it, because we get direct feedback from our customers, the loyal 5paisa customers. We want more of it. And I think if you start to always be in a situation where you're just trying to catch up and say that, "Here are the three top guys in the market. Let me be like them," by the time you reach there, they're moved somewhere else. So you have to chart your own course, and that's exactly what we're doing.
So that's great. On the product side, I just meant on the market share side and the revenue and the scale side, how do we sort of get to a top three position?
So I mean, that is work in progress. I mean, I can't share with you the entire strategy of the public company, but.
I understand. But what I'm trying to ask is, is that even likely in the next three years?
It's unlikely.
Most of the companies will not publish, but the numbers that Groww and Zerodha have just thrown out are just surprising.
Yes. And we also know the reasons of why those numbers are where they are. And those are things that we also understand. I think it's a matter of execution. I think it is likely, if not three years and five years. Yeah.
Okay. That's great. And one final question. There was a lot of qualitative improvement. We had a bigger MTF book. We increased our customer acquisition. Everything was good. And I understand the cost side. But why is the revenue on a Q1, Q2 basis not in check at all?
Because if you see at the exchange level, both the cash volumes as well as on an ADTO basis and F&O on a premium basis and notional both have come down, one by 16%, one by 13%. Now, that is not justification. We have also fallen. We have fallen a little more than.
No, no. On a quantity basis, we have increased, Gaurav.
No, no. So what you are saying that the income side, our brokerage income is almost same. In spite of cash and F&O turnover is down, although the number of orders is almost same. But we've grown up in the net revenue. On the other side, other income, I mean, there is a down of INR 2 crore and INR 2.5 crore because of the repo rate. Because ultimately, you are enjoying the interest rate, FD interest rate of the client funds as well as your own funds. But repo rate has been down, and hence, there is a slight effect of that income. And hence, our overall income is almost same for the last quarter.
Right. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad. There are no further questions. Now, I hand over the floor to management for closing comments.
Thank you, everyone. A bunch of questions got us thinking. Thank you again for joining the call, and if you have any additional questions, there is an email ID enclosed that you can reach us, and we can converse. Thank you.
Sure. Thank you, everyone. Wish you a very Happy Diwali .
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference call for today. Thank you for your participation and for using Door Sabha's conference call service. You may disconnect your lines now. Thank you and have a good day.