Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Affle (India) Limited Conference Call to discuss the acquisition of Jampp hosted by Nomura Securities Limited.
As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rishit Parikh from Nomura Securities. Thank you and over to you, Mr. Parikh.
Thank you, Neera. Good morning and good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of Nomura, we welcome you all to the conference call of Affle (India) Limited to discuss the company's view on the acquisition of Jampp. I take this opportunity to welcome the management of Affle (India) Limited represented by Mr. Anuj Khanna Sohum who is the Chairman, Managing Director, and Chief Executive Officer of the company and Mr.
Kapil Bhutani, who is the Chief Financial and Operations Officer of the company. We request all participants to restrict your questions as per the agenda of the call. I now hand over the call to Anuj for his opening remarks post which we can open up the line for Q&A. Over to you, Anuj.
Thanks, Rishit. Hi everyone. A very warm welcome to our call today and thanks for your continued interest in Affle India. I am delighted to confirm that we have completed the acquisition of Jampp and you know, the 100% acquisition of its equity, the 100% acquisition of its IP and this happens at a very favorable time. With respect to the backdrop that we see now that Google has announced over the last week or so that they are delaying their removal of cookies from their browsers till 2023.
What that essentially has given us is a very clear indicator to the market that with respect to data privacy, even on the browser, on the cookie, which has been an established fact on iOS since 2018-2020, even five years forward, Google is still somehow saying that, you know, they will implement it two years later in 2023, so there is a clear indicator that on the emerging markets thesis of expanding the mobile marketing business, on the Android anchored marketplaces, we have a very strong thesis of continued growth momentum and there are no major changes that one should be worried about or factoring as risk at the immediate moment. Because even on the browser and the cookie, which actually impacts very little to our business today, there is already a significant delay that one can see that Google is introducing.
So this acquisition of Jampp actually connects very well to Affle's strategy of focusing on Android heavy emerging markets because Jampp is a global company, global programmatic platform company, but it is founded and anchored disproportionately in Latin American markets and has very niche and verticalized focused presence in some of the verticals in North American markets. And so this acquisition of Jampp being announced on 9th of June and getting completed and announced yesterday for us, achieving completion on that is a significant milestone for us. The last financial year of the company we had already delivered over INR 100 crores of cash flow from operations and we had also in the month of early part of May achieved the QIP of INR 600 crores.
And therefore the company had already provided a clear strategy that as part of Affle 2.0 strategy for the decade, we are looking at reaching over 10 billion connected devices globally, anchoring our execution across emerging markets, India, Southeast Asia, Middle East, Africa, LATAM, CIS. Basically looking at global emerging markets because we want to be more deeply anchored on the Android ecosystem and from there enter into certain niche verticals in developed markets as well. Jampp completes that strategy in a very strong way, and it is consistent with what we have said prior to IPO during roadshows, during the IPO, post-IPO during QIP round, and we have gone and simply executed on what we have always maintained as our execution strategy and focus. Jampp is a unique company. They have been in a courtship period with us since 2030 when they were founded.
I have personally interacted with their senior management since that time. And through these seven to eight years, you know, we have been watchfully.
You know, carefully calibrating and assessing them until we found that they've reached that moment where they have maxed out on what they are capable of doing and it's time for Affle to come and lift it to much greater heights and possibilities in tech ecosystem. Please know there are many kinds of entrepreneurs and most of the entrepreneurs who reach some level of success are what I define as the Abhimanyu entrepreneurs. They know how to build their first team, their idea, their angel round, the series A, series B, Series C. They know how to get to good revenue traction as well. But they somehow start at break even and they don't then know how to raise that next round of funding or talk about organically cash flow, positive growth orientation.
The Abhimanyus who are really strong warriors but they fight really well up to a certain point and after that they just stagnate, they get stuck. If you see Affle's consistent track record, we have always gone whether it was Appnext or Mediasmart or any of our acquisitions. And Jampp is no different. We have always found those moments where these companies have reached a certain revenue scale, they are breaking even, the investors are out of steam, they're not putting any further money. The founders are a little bit tired and we go in and say, okay, we acquired them and infused life into that spirit, into that all over again with our technology, with our CPC verticalization strategy, which leads to better margins, which leads to better profitability and cash flows.
And then build that engine of growth from that, you know, from, you know, not just applying technology and data, but also giving certain level of capital support to get that engine of growth back on track. And then that inspires these entrepreneurs who are already very good entrepreneurs. They've proven track record. We're complementing them in a way that allows them to survive and well beyond that sustainably unlock greater value and growth. And that's what we have done in the past. That's exactly what we're doing with Jampp . Our thesis of doing these acquisitions is very clear. Within 12 months of doing the acquisition, our goal is to build these businesses into very high single-digit bottom-line positive performance. And that we have already done with Mediasmart and Appnext as demonstrated before, within 12 months.
Our confidence therefore is very high to go ahead and do a Jampp transaction and say to our board that we will do it again with Jampp as well, because we have the playbook and we have tested our methods of doing it. We're pretty confident through our due diligence that in Jampp this will also happen within the 12- to 24-month period. We would move these acquired businesses to a 15%-20% bottom line positive contribution performance. To me that is something that is extreme, extremely exciting because it means that we are buying these companies at a time where they are struggling, applying our technology and capabilities to turn them into greater higher margin performance within 24 months and therefore unlocking sustainable growth which is profitable and cash flow positive and bringing them to the same level of performance that Affle's current businesses.
So that's the thesis with which we have gone ahead consistently and acted on these acquisitions, whether it was Mediasmart or Appnext or Jampp. And I'm super confident that we will deliver just like we have in the past on Jampp as well. We've also got the management team of Jampp clearly deeply incentivized. If you look at the deal structure, we're only paying part of the payments. Now we're paying the other two tranches end of year one, year three. So there's significant alignment to make sure that these teams stay aligned and stay together to unlock this greater growth potential momentum that I'm talking about and we will certainly achieve that, is how I see it at the moment.
Now with that, maybe we can deep dive into any questions that you might have and then, you know, as part of answering those questions, let me build greater understanding and appreciation for what we have done.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press Star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two.
Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question.
Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles.
Hi, this is Rishit. While the question.
A couple of questions that I have and then we can open up the floor for Q&A. Right. So Anuj, just a couple of key ones on Jampp, right? Just four or five subsets. One, are you looking to expand materially in LATAM and U.S. and is there any timeline to reach a potential size and scale in these markets? That's one. Second, I would assume Jampp will be on a CPI model, right. Is there a plan to pivot this to a more CPCU model and how do we drive that change and how long do you think that will take? Third, any cross-sell opportunities that you see from this acquisition and any other synergies that you can highlight, and we'll be surprised. I have a follow-up.
Sure. So the way we look at Jampp is that within.
Asia- Pac region and Jampp has very small business here. So that is basically consolidating our position as an upcoming market leader in Asia- Pac markets in India and certainly beyond. And if you look at mobile marketing associations, global, you know, reports and trackers, I think it already talks about Affle as the number one platform for India in the top three platforms for Asia- Pac region and so on. When we look at Jampp now, we want it to be identified as a market leader in Latin American markets. And I think given their seven-year track record, their brand is quite strong. I mean every industry player, not just in North America and Latam, anywhere in Asia, even in India would necessarily know of Jampp. And you know, we've got so many people calling and congratulating us, being fantastic people, fantastic team. How did you get them?
You know, so there's so much positive equity that they enjoy as a brand and they are the only company, the only company in our ecosystem and space that you can say is truly born brought up out of Latin America. So to stake a claim to market leadership position in Latam with the Jampp brand under our umbrella as a group is a very strategic move. Now when will we achieve that in terms of quantified numbers where all the industry reports and start recognizing that? I would say give us that two year window, two to three years. We should be, you know, by default being seen as market leaders in Latam in terms of transforming the business from let's say, you know, how Jampp is seen today, which is more CPI, to upgrading it, let's say to the CPCU business model, which is deeper funnel conversion metrics.
We are going to do it with immediate effect, with a vengeance. And during this long courtship period, I think we have already been assessing all of that, right, to hit the ground running. So please know that why you see that the agreements are signed on the 9th of June and completion has happened on end of June. The work in progress has been very, very strong. So I think we have been. The short answer is that we should start seeing CPCU performance and contribution for a significant part of Jampp's business within the July, August, September quarter itself. Right. So we have done, we talked to all the top customers contributing almost 80% of the revenue during the due diligence process. We've educated them, look, this is how this acquisition will help those customers get better ROI and margins. And we already see momentum.
In fact, you know, I had a call with the Jampp founders last night and you know, they were saying that almost a blessing, I mean we're already seeing much bigger, you know, pipeline and conversions and momentum than we have ever seen in our business. And I say we cannot just attribute it to good luck, right? But it is clearly these strategies make sense and the customers are demanding that and we have made sure that the Jampp teams are ready with the kind of training and preparation that we have done, so I think we will see almost 100% transition to CPCU within one quarter, maximum two quarters. And that is what will help us in getting the high single digit performance on bottom line, sensible performance for Jampp within this year itself. And that transformation happens by integrating our DMP, our cloud systems together with Jampp.
And you know, for that, Charles, my CTO and team has already been working with the tech team at Jampp. So we should be able to achieve that within the first six months and the financial outcomes of that will be seen within the nine months itself. And so by the time we end this financial year we should see CPCU transform Jampp, delivering high single digit profit performance. And your last question was if I may please bother you to help me revise what your last question was.
Any other cross opportunities that you envisage from some of the portfolios that we already hold which can be sold into LATAM pretty easily.
So I think there is massive cross selling opportunity. Okay. So I think for our MAT platform, for our Appnext platform, for the MediaSmart Connected TV platform.
So, you know, we have. We don't want to overwhelm Jampp. Right. Just transforming them from CPI to CPCU and higher, you know, profitability growth and verticalization, all of that is perhaps sufficient for the first nine months. In the second year, let's say in the next financial year we see them doing deeper packages, OEMs and opportunities.
And either referring or cross selling and upselling other platforms and capabilities of Affle into that market. And maybe let's just put this way that our ambition should be that we can grow the Jampp business in LATAM in North America through Apple support. I mean it clearly becomes a $100 million possibility, you know, in a previous time. Yeah.
Okay, fair enough. And then just to follow up on this one. Right. From an EBITDA margin perspective, is that a target? Will it be a five-year time to reach Apple-level EBITDA margins in this business? That's one. And second, any impact on Jampp due to the changes in the privacy policy in the iOS market. Thank you.
So, first question on EBITDA. I think first year, like I said, single highs it is taking 15%-20%. You know, by now it gets to the third year, I would say it is definitely performing, you know, at Affle's, you know, current business level which is in the, you know, close to 23%-25% plus EBITDA. Right. And I think that is, that is, that is inevitable because fundamentally I will only acquire those businesses whose quality and growth momentum can be upgraded to the same level as Affle's. I'm not in the business of somehow acquiring businesses for size and scale and averaging ourselves down. Of course you see some averaging down in the short period of time because in year one and two they're not as profitable. And that's exactly why we buy them cheap. Right. So we are transforming.
I mean, and when we transform them from an every month new to an or from a category to a product line, I've used all these analogies before, using our technology, capital efficiency, and strategies, there is massive unlocking of value that will happen for stakeholders over the period of two to three years, and each year we will demonstrate that we tell you how we are progressing so that you can see whether we are on track or not, and I think so far we have done really well, and with respect to data privacy, iOS, we are very confident that our focus on emerging markets deeply insulate us from iOS related changes. Because almost all emerging markets in the world are over 90% plus Android markets as part of consumer selection of Android as the choice in terms of ecosystem.
And the Android ecosystem is totally unaffected from anything to do with iOS. Clearly, even if you look at North America as a market, 50% of North American market, let's say, is Android focused. And Affle is getting into that with the sales team of Jampp and saying guys, let's push for that. Because we are perhaps the only company in the world in our business who is disproportionately focused on global Android ecosystem markets and therefore our ability. Our case studies on Android platform is so strong and have won global awards in so many forums and different advertiser case studies that when we go to a North America certain niche verticals and say guys, on Android, give us your business. We are one of the best in the world on Android.
Look at the volumes of business we do consumer profiles, we analyze and process and deliver conversions for on Android. It is unmatched. I mean no Trade Desk, no other company that I can know of today in North America has that capability. So we are attacking certain niche verticals in North America, Android focused. That doesn't mean that our platform cannot serve iOS and we can't, and that's total upside for us. Right. So when we go and win some customer because of Android entry point, when we go and say, hey, give us some of your iOS budget as well and that's how our strategy is. We don't think that there's any nervousness in our minds with respect to iOS.
In fact, there's only opportunity that I see that, you know, let's go and attack those who are becoming vulnerable, the competitors who are iOS heavy and if they are vulnerable, let's go and win against them. Right. Because we can. So that's how I see it.
Sure. Thank you. I'll get back into.
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Mr. Mayank from Dalal & Broacha. Please go ahead.
Good morning and thank you for taking my question. Am I audible?
There is a bit of background noise.
Is it fine right now, or
I can hear you? Please go ahead.
Yeah. So my first question was around what sort of growth rates can we expect.
From Jampp? Because as you see in CY19 they've grown around 39% and CY20, it dipped by 16%. So from a, you know, modeling perspective, just wanted to know what sort of growth rate can you expect over the next one to three years?
I don't usually give any specific business unit growth guidelines or any short term growth guidelines. But having said that, it is absolutely important to look at the macro factors that are providing massive tailwinds to the industry that Affle is in and across global emerging markets. I would expect our industry to grow at least 25% CAGR in the next three to five years. Consequently, I would want anybody who's modeling us, whether it's our own internal teams or investors, analysts, anybody who is modeling this business of ours. Because of our unique business model on CPCU and the way we address the consumer platform opportunity for the advertisers, verticalized emerging market focus and so on, there is absolutely no reason to not model us at 25%-30% CAGR for next three to five years.
And this, I mean, with the new base that we have got, you know, so you can do the calculation of, you know, Jampp and Affle for, you know, the trailing period, you know. Sufficient disclosures on that to get on the revenue numbers. I've already given you the indicator of year one, what kind of profitability or bottom line outcomes we can derive from these businesses and so on. So just model it on that basis and I think that should be a realistic basis to model. Yes, and we will hopefully to achieve and exceed those expectations.
Just one more thing, actually. When you gave the guidance on the margins, that was PAT margins or EBITDA margins.
See, it's hard to go on patch basis because I don't know, you know, what kind of tax rates and so on will be applicable, but when I talk about bottom line, I typically mean profit before tax, you know, which means that I've taken into account everything, whether it is, you know, capitalization, whether it is amortization, everything has been taken except for taxes, so typically when I'm saying these numbers to you, I mean, you know, profit before tax.
Just the last one, bookkeeping question as far as acquisition is concerned, how will the price be allocated to balance sheet items?
So $41.3 million. So 26.3 would be up front and 15 would be contingent. So what would go to, you know, the different line items.
[crosstalk]For this? Yeah, yeah, hi, thanks for asking this question. So we have initiated the price, the purchase price allocation studies which have been done by one of the big four firms. I believe that the large portion will go to Goodwill and the rest would go to the intangible assets which are the tech assets or the brand assets or the customer relationship as there is no brick and mortar asset available on the line items.
Sure. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for the answers. Good luck.
Thank you. Bye. Participants, you may press star and one to ask a question.
The next question is from the line of Mr. Mohan Kumar from JM Financial Services. Please go ahead.
So just one quick question regarding the broader impact of cookies and how generally that's going to play a role here. She mentioned that Google over next couple of years says that they want to get to a better place with that, with the privacy-related concerns and things along those lines. So what happens? What's the impact that we can expect from Affle? In fact, we can expect to Affle if there is a little more privacy-related action that comes on the cookies front of storing of cookies.
Sure.
The business of Affle in-app mobile marketing, on-device mobile marketing has been around since April 2005 and has seen, you know, all forms of ecosystem changes, whether from Nokia and BlackBerry to iOS, Android and so on, so forth in terms of data privacy regulations. You know, these regulations came about in Singapore first than anywhere else in the world called Personal Data Protection Act came about in Singapore for digital in 2012 and became implemented in 2014 followed by GDPR in Europe which came in 2016. We are talking about, you know, regulations which allow consumers to say, "I consent for my data to be used," or also allowing the consumer to say, "I revoke my data to be used," across any form of digital platforms by government regulations.
And most of these jurisdictions since 2016 in GDPR or 2014 in Singapore have still seen massive growth in digital advertising on mobile. So I think, having seen through last 16 years of ecosystem changes, having seen through data regulation coming in Singapore and Europe for, you know, nine years or six over five years in the case of Europe and seeing how the market is continue to grow, I have absolutely no issues to say that when, you know, iOS announced that they will deprecate the cookie on the Safari browser. This was announced in 2018, early 2019 and Google responded saying we'll also do something. And now Google last week has announced that it will do something in 2023.
You know, which means if you look at iOS announcing something versus Google announcing to do something and also is always a shifting goal post the delta between the two is over four to five years now. Affle's business fortunately has almost zero dependence on browser and very low single-digit percentage dependence on iOS as a device on the browser. The cookies' relevance is only on a browser. Since Affle has almost 0% business on the browser at the moment, we have no impact of whether cookies are there or not there. But from an ecosystem level perspective, it gives us a perspective that on the Google ecosystem, more specifically on the Android ecosystem, the hurdles for Google to do something is much higher because Android is controlled not just by Google, but also OEMs and operators around the world.
All of these large handset manufacturers, they have their own variants and you know, variants of Android on the UI and deep changes on that and they have their own abilities, you know, to have identifiers on that device. And Affle is deeply in partnership with operators and OEMs as part of our strategy as well. So, so let's say next three to five years, I don't see any deep risk factors with respect to Android and Google ecosystem going through some massive change. More fundamentally, even on iOS, let's say iOS has made this change.
Let me ask you, if you are an iOS user in India and somebody were to give you two options saying hey, this is an app which has ads in it, please give your consent for it to show you an ad in a targeted manner where device ID shared or go for another app which is, you know, a premium and you have to pay $1 a month to use it. I can assure you, most of us on this call, and I think we are more than 100, more than 50% would say just give the consent, it's okay. There's already regulation on data protection. What is the big deal? I don't want to pay. Never mind.
This is the general attitude for most consumers in emerging markets across the world. Whether they are affluent users or they are rural market users, whether they are you or otherwise, I can tell you my children are the same. I mean even if they are downloading on their iPad an app which is like a game with ad, I would say you want this version? No, no, let's take the free version. I don't want to waste my pocket money on just taking a game and paying for it. You know, they want to take an ad-funded business. If they love it too much and they don't want to see ad, then they will pay for it. So they ad-funded consent-based business model is here to stay because the consumers want it. What iOS, Android, and the regulation is saying is please ask for consent properly.
And when the consent is given. Please make sure the data is stored properly. And so Affle is welcoming of regulation, is welcoming of consumer consent and we believe that in emerging markets, ecosystem on Android it is still far away before Android will do the consent the way iOS is asking for it. And even on iOS I think that in emerging markets we will see at least 50% of the people giving consent which is statistically relevant for Affle to continue its business the same way without any worry.
Thanks, that's really clear. And just one quick follow up on that. So you've taken a bigger stake or pretty much like double your stake in Bobble AI. So does that kind of build a deeper network with the OEMs over there? Because as you mentioned being an OEM has.[audio distortion] Pretty much everyone's got a
brilliant,
sorry,
brilliant question. Thanks for asking. It is absolutely critical for Affle to make sure that we have deep OEM operator partnerships and having more and more presence on strategic assets on the device. Why did Affle choose to go after the keyboard app? The reason is that every single user on an average, I was myself surprised that we use our phone more than 100 times a day. I knew my screen time was a lot, but I didn't know that I go more than 100 times a day to do something on my device and almost invariably in all of those 100 times I have the keyboard activated.
And it is irrespective of whether I'm typing a message to my wife or to my CFO or to my founding team, you know, or if I'm searching something or I'm purchasing something or I'm doing banking transactions to approve something for Affle's payments or my own bank's payments, doesn't matter which app I'm using, the keyboard is always the same keyboard. How powerful is that? Now if that is a keyboard that supports all vernacular languages of India and supports them in a way that you can even mix those languages like a bit of Tamil and a bit of Hindi mixed together or English mixed together with Punjabi and you know, it can interpret that and help. It is a powerful tool. Before Bobble becomes a unicorn, I thought it is sensible to double down. And how will they become a unicorn?
Because Affle will help them in getting more users through OEM and operator partnership. Affle will help them to do ad based monetization using our technology because they don't have those expertise. They know how to make vernacular keyboards. We are enabling quite a lot of the rest for them and we know that we are taking them to places, so before they become more valuable at all, let's buy some more equity and take some more positions there. That's all.
Thanks a lot for answering that. And just, finally, just one follow up.
Sorry to interrupt you.
This is just a follow up to the existing question itself. This is just a follow up to the existing question. So you still have a lot of cash on your reserves from the QIP that you raised, and you've got really good cash flows. So can we expect a bigger position in Bobble AI or any other form of acquisitions in the near term?
So we'll see. I mean, I, you know, I don't have the mindset of, you know, building war chest. In fact, when we were going for the QIB round as well, I was very clear if I did not see Jampp happening, I wouldn't have done QIB, you know, and I am a strong believer that we should only, we should have efficient capital raising and deployment. So whatever capital we have, we will deploy it carefully and efficiently.
Also, at the same time, very conservative. You know, you may see that, oh my God, Affle is super aggressive, right? But you know, it is super conservative. Look at every single transaction we've done. Mediasmart, four to five years of courtship. Appnext, four to five years, seven years, eight years courtship. We are very, very selective. Very, very careful. And you can be assured that if we do something, it would be with 100% conviction.
Thanks sir. All the best.
Thank you very much.
The next question is from the line of Mr. Kalpit Narvekar from Allianz Global Investors. Please go ahead.
Hello Anuj, congratulations on the acquisition and thanks for taking my question. Thanks.
Just two questions from my side. Could you, in terms of the 50% international revenue, could you share some color in terms of what is the contribution from different markets?
What do you see as the underlying growth in those markets in terms of mobile advertising?
And secondly, in terms of growing there organically as well as inorganically, how do you sort of view which markets to enter? Is it based on which device is dominant or? So could you just share some color on that?
Sure, absolutely. So currently, as you rightly pointed out, our revenues are 50% India, 50% international markets. When we talk about international markets, our focus is disproportionately on global emerging markets. So when I say Southeast Asia, I don't necessarily mean Singapore, I mean Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, Philippines, Vietnam, all these fast growing emerging markets of Southeast Asia and talk about Middle East, Africa, similarly, the emerging markets there, Latin American markets and CIS markets, these are all strong emerging global markets and our focus is disproportionately in those markets. And I've also mentioned that my expectation across India and all emerging markets, global emerging markets in the world, is that we would be growing, our industry would see digital mobile advertising growth of at least 25% CAGR over the next three to five years. And there are multiple industry reports, one can refer for that.
When you carve out these growth oriented emerging markets, put it together, you'll find that kind of growth rate percentage is emerging from it. Now you didn't really ask it specifically, but let me take the opportunity to provide some broad directional guidance. I would expect international business because of the sheer sort of addressable market right globally, across different countries around the world, and our platforms are global. We are capable of addressing the global opportunity.
Anchored out of India. We also built on ground strong presence in Latin America and Middle East, Africa, in other Asian markets. We've also gone to Japan and Korea, built some initial on ground presence there, even in China. So we are going a bit more aggressive in terms of covering our on ground presence across those markets. And we want to make our presence felt and in a way that is still fast growing profitable. We are not throwing capital behind it in a way that, you know, it's a very sensible calibrated move. You know, with bottom line sensibility being assured at all times. I would expect that within this financial year itself we should see 60%-40% in favor of international versus India. And that's not because India is growing any lesser or any less fast.
It's just the sheer momentum that we are going to see with the mix of not just Jampp, but also, you know, organic growth and how we are moving. But every time I've given this kind of a guidance, India has surprised me because India just finds ways to grow faster at the same time. So, you know, I've always challenged my teams in India to keep pace with that and the Bobble investment. Our vernacular strategy, verticalization strategy, going deeper into India with tier 2, tier 3 rural India. I think all of these are fantastic strategies. Just, you know, our CPV connected TV product in India is getting partners every other day, you know, and.
It's moving along so nicely that while all my Excel-based planning says that it'll be 60, 40 in favor of international.
You know, India is doing exceptionally well as well. So I'm super proud of how our teams are executing and anybody who believes that we have any, you know, we are going too far and you know, maybe having perhaps diffusing ourselves, please know that we have a dedicated entrepreneurial leadership team who lives and breathes only India 24/7, nothing else. Similarly, we have a team in LATAM now which is only breathing LATAM and just focused on that and another team which is in Southeast Asia focused on those markets. So whichever geographies we are focused on, we have a dedicated management team and bandwidth which is not multitasking across markets and therefore losing focus. And each of them have a clear mandate whether to become market leaders in one year or two years or three years.
There's a very clear execution plan and for myself I'm basically leading the top 20 entrepreneurs in the company and making sure that I'm guiding them and keeping them hungry, inspired and aligned for long-term wealth creation for all stakeholders. So we have the management bandwidth to build Affle to even 10x growth from here. And still I think my management team would be good enough to lead this company.
Thanks Anuj, that's really helpful, and just one more question from my side.
Come back in the question queue for a follow-up question.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ms. Christina McGuire from Elephant Asset Management. Please go in.
Yes, thank you very much and congratulations on an acquisition at what seems to be quite an attractive price. Most of my questions have been answered.
Earlier, but just perhaps to ask a little bit more clarifying question on the cookie issue. So I appreciate that you are less fussed about what happens on the iOS side, but in terms of the Android Google ecosystem. So Google's announcement has obviously provided some breathing room, but what do you actually think? What are your plans for what will happen in a couple of years' time? Do you think that Google will phase out third-party cookies or do you think that they will go down?
Will they retain it? Will they ask for consent? What do you think is going to happen in a few years time and what are your plans when that happens? Thank you.
That's a great question and thanks for bringing the focus back onto this fundamental macro factor. Affle's business does not depend on the browser, whether on Android or on iOS. Safari has already got rid of the cookies and Affle had no problem with that. Android has. Google has already said that on its Chrome browser it will deprecate cookies at some point in time. They've been saying it for a long time and now they have said that they won't be able to do anything until 2023. Whether they do it tomorrow or they do it in 2023. Affle will have zero problems with that because we have almost no dependence on the browser even on the Android and the Google ecosystem. However, your question is still relevant because the question is going towards a broader theme which is saying hey, consumer seems to be wanting privacy.
Fair enough. But I can also tell you the consumers also want affordable, free ad funded apps and they want to try as many apps as possible, whether utilities or gaming or entertainment. And they want to do all of that as much as possible without paying, certainly for emerging markets. And therefore ad funded apps with consent from consumers is I believe a fundamental t rend and this trend is not going to change. However, what the ecosystem is saying is that please ask for the user's consent properly.
Please don't just assume that you're giving a free app with ads and therefore you can take whatever data and start targeting and you know, taking any data from the users, you know, all people unanimously in the ecosystem, nobody would deny that, hey, the consumer rights to give a consent or to not give a consent should be there, so I am a strong believer and a proponent in a voice in the industry you're saying consumer acceptable advertising with consumer consent must be done and the consumer will give the consent because there are merits to give consent.
Why should we be paying as consumers for everything when an advertising funded model can allow us to try and explore a much wider part of the Internet? I mean the entire Internet ecosystem is anchored on advertising because the consumer wants subsidized content, apps, entertainment with this ad. I mean that's how the Internet has thrived in the last 20 years. I don't see that changing for the next 20 years either. Now what will become important is let's respect consumers consent. If some consumers don't want to give the consent, please stop chasing them and showing them ads. Fine. Ad blockers have been there all along. Now there is a different form of things. The regulation of GDPR in Singapore and U.S. regulations have always allowed consumers to revoke their consent anytime. And all businesses have to stop tracking them with ads.
So all of this has already been around for many years. iOS is now saying that.
On their iPhone device, not just the cookie on their Safari browser, but on every app that wants to show ads, and they will ask consent in a very onerous fashion, almost telling the user, are you sure you want to give consent to this app? It will track you and show you ads, but iOS is not stopping it, if the user is okay with that consent, go ahead and show the ads. My take on it is that Android also someday is going to ask for consent in a much more pronounced fashion, but the fundamentals of this business is that the users, the consumers, you and I as normal consumers are going to give consent at least 50%-75% of the time in emerging markets and that is statistically meaningful for us to run our business and business model largely the same way.
And with that, I can tell you that I am not losing sleep on it because nothing is happening on Android anytime soon. Like you said, it's the breather for next two years on cookies. It's certainly a longer breather on anything to do with Android on in app ecosystem. We are anyways partners with operators and OEMs and we're going on the device on keyboards which gives us an opportunity to surface inside every app on the device. So you know, we already having so many strategies working towards it that I'm pretty confident that we would net net be a larger beneficiary of all these changes.
You know, let's say when you work with operators and OEMs and we are taking data about their consumers in our systems, in our cloud, they wouldn't trust any other company but a company that is a public listed, is accredited by Singapore platforms versus let's say a smaller startup that shows up with something unique going forward. So I think the regulation will ensure that the playing field favors a certain size of a company that can be seen as compliant with regulation and dealing responsibly with consumer data by all the players. And because large advertisers, operators, OEMs, publishers, they will all trust a platform like Affle a little bit more. At the same time, the governments with the regulations are clearly going after the larger big core tech companies and saying hey, you know, trying to clip their wings a little bit.
And that again has a positive impact on companies like Affle where you know, we can take a larger position in the ecosystem over time. So I think net net, I see data privacy and our preparation and strategy for that as part of our competitive mode versus relatively smaller organically growing competitors locally as well as against the big four companies.
Okay, thank you, that's very clear. Have you seen any change in your end customer behavior on the back of these recent movements in cookies or are people quite happy to go on?
As they have done in the past? In terms of.
Using digital as predominantly?
I would say cookies is not something that we are tracking or seeing behavioral changes around. But I can tell you that COVID has had a massive change and acceleration of consumer digital adoption. The consumers across all categories of lifestyle services are going digital. The frequency of usage of their smartphone apps and devices has really gone up.
The value and the volume of the transactions and conversions that an average user is doing on their device or mobile apps has gone up. And all of these trends are not only limiting themselves to a lockdown. So when the lockdown happened in India last year, it was March, April, we were all very nervous. Everything had come to a standstill. I mean, a lot of our campaigns have stopped. I can tell you I've never been more nervous in app industry ever, except for at that time, even though all my theory and logic said that hey, this will help your business. But when you see campaigns stopping and revenue stopping, I mean, you know.
It's not easy, and you know, we saw that the consumer trends really massively shot up, and of course the advertising was dried up for a period of time, but then that came back with a vengeance as well because the advertisers also saw those consumer trends across changes, and we saw financial services, we saw education, health care, a lot of these fundamental lifestyle services, consumptions going up on digital much more than ever before, and even when the world opened up again before the second wave and lockdowns happened, the trends kept up. Which means that once the user's adoption curve had shifted, it did not go back, it just stayed there, so the advertisers will obviously increase their spends also with respect to consumers getting so deeply married to their digital devices and connected devices. Cookies? No cookies. Data regulation. No data regulation.
One reality is that as consumers, you and I are not shifting from our mobile smartphone devices anytime soon. Advertisers therefore have no choice but to shift big part of their budget from digital.
That's great. Thank you.
Any further questions?
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Hardik Sangani from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Hey. Hi everyone. Just a couple of questions. So is it related to Jampp? So what would be the customer mix in terms of advertiser or direct or client concentration? If any kind of table can be provided and just Jampp, will it continue to be an independent entity or will it be totally integrated with our platform? And who will be the competitors in similar space in those markets?
All right, so the first question is about, you know, the customer profiles of Jampp. I would say 95% of the customers of Jampp are direct customers. And even if there are any ad agencies involved in the middle, Jampp is almost always dealing with the end advertiser directly. So I would say for all practical purposes the business is direct to advertisers. Unlike Trade Desk for example, that is a lot more agency heavy as a business. And the customer concentration wise. There is no particular concentration risk. We are, you know, for Affle as a group we saw our top 10 customers contributing about 40% r evenue of the company.
I think with Jampp, when we report our next quarter's results we will give you some insight into that. I don't think that should be any material impact in terms of concentration risk in terms of competitors in North America and Latin American markets. I mean there's a company called Liftoff, you know, there are companies like IronSource, Digital Turbine and so on and I think we will be actively competing with them. Of course there's The Trade Desk but you know, we would be competing with our unique cost per converted user business model versus you know, those companies who are still on a, you know, CPM, CPC or Impressions and Click or you know, charging for a technology and data kind of business model. But we are going outcome led ROI link pricing.
So that makes us differentiated and I am pretty confident that we will grow faster than the industry average growth in those markets, once Jampp sees a combination with us . Running it independently, I think there is obviously always some integration. I've already talked about the kind of integrations we would do with our data science and DMP cloud infrastructures being absolutely integrated so that we can get efficiencies of scale together and cost optimizations, margin enhancement and ROI enhancements with our verticalization strategy for certain verticals and we'll provide all of that to them. We'd also be upgrading them from the CPI to CPCU business model and with that ensuring better bottom line performance. So there will be integrations as per our playbook similar to what we have done with Appnext and Mediasmart and so on.
And we would be still of course giving that team their Jampp as a brand identity in those markets. The entrepreneurs having reasonable level of compliance checks as well as autonomy so that they can breathe and thrive. But culturally both the organizations are already blended and very, very similar, very technology and entrepreneurial heavy culture. And the founders of Jampp had previously started some company which they sold to another public listed company and they worked through that for more than three years. So they have the discipline and the experience of operating under a public listed company.
So, I think we derive comfort from all of those factors as well, and we are pretty confident that we've got a good asset in hand, and we will transform it and make it valuable, fast growing, cash flow positive, and get within two years plus time delivering similar bottom line sensible and high growth metrics that Affle has been known to deliver in the last several years.
So that's it from my side. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mr. Rahul Jain from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, thanks for the opportunity. Just on the Jampp, what is the potential growth we expect in the existing customer pool?
Your voice is breaking. Can you come in a better reception area please?
Can you hear me now?
Yeah, we can hear you, but your voice is breaking slightly. Can you talk to the handset if possible?
Yeah. Is it any better?
Much better, thank you. Go ahead. Thank you.
Yes, yes, sorry. So on the Jampp acquisition, what is the potential growth we see in this c ustomer that we get from this acquisition in terms of the Affle Full Stack offering that we bring to this client pool and we know that the overlap is very minimalistic, that is 0.1, and on the side on the Bobble investment.
When do we plan to do the revaluation on this investment? Will it happen? Will it be assessed in Q1, Q2 or year end? Thank you.
I will give you a qualitative answer on your first question. You're absolutely right that in terms of geography, in terms of customers and you know there's very little overlap between our companies.
And therefore we have great possibilities of unlocking growth by upselling, cross-selling some of their platform and services to our customers in Asia and our products and incremental capabilities to their customers in their markets. Now the first and the number one priority is transforming Jampp and turning it into a much more valuable business than it has been. And that transformation is going to be a number one focus for the next six to nine months for this financial year. And that includes making sure that the cloud systems that they have are made super efficient, adding the data science and DMP integrations to ensure that they can transform into the CPCU business model and therefore make higher ROIs for the advertisers and better margins for themselves.
In terms of, in the second year we will do the upselling cross-selling based optimization because that's the playbook that we have. Can we do all of that in six months, nine months maybe? But I think we want to prioritize and do one thing deeply well and deliver. And I think the market is there for us to take and our end-to-end platforms are quite differentiated from what anybody else in the market offers there. So we are pretty convinced that we can take a step-by-step approach towards this: year one, transform Jampp with CPCU and bring it to a high level of growth and profitability, year two, cross-sell upsell and so on. Then I think you also asked about the.
Dolat investment and maybe Kapil, you can answer that because I'm not so familiar with this assessment question. Yeah,
sure. So to answer you on the revaluation of the investments, it is mandated by the accounting standard that we have to revalue the asset investments at every quarter or reporting period. And the evaluation started from quarter four, March end because the initial investment was done in August. So every quarter and we'll be assessing and extrapolating the value of the investment. And if external valuations are required, we'll go for the external valuations on a half yearly basis or a quarterly basis as the need arises.
So since we announced this completion yesterday, will it fall in Q2 or will it can fall in Q1 as well? So it is. We announced completion yesterday, but the completion happened on 30th and it will be the value of the assets as on 30th. The investment and the payments were made in the month of June itself. As per the accounting standards, to my understanding, we'll take it as a cutoff date of 30th of June itself.
Got it, got it, and if I can squeeze in one more.
On this Apple policy change, have we seen any, noticed any client taking a pause or review on their thoughts of how to do till the time the attribution turns better? I know, I'm sure exposure are limited, but any understanding we have from a general or our client perspective.
Could you repeat the question?
Yeah, I was saying that, have we seen any client behavior change in terms of whether they want to pause or slow down on their overall spend given the Apple policy change? Have you seen that behavior in our client or in general in market?
Let me take that, let me take that question. So on iOS policy change you mean? Right,
Apple, not Affle.
And. In emerging markets there is absolutely no change. I think people were anyways focused on Android disproportionately in developed markets. We have seen clearly that, you know, let's say everything else being equal, people are saying let's put more budgets on Android, and I think that is, that is definitely coming out as you know, because nothing has changed and nothing expected to change. You think, okay, let's go on Android a little bit more, and on iOS some of the advertisers have been cautious, some of them have been more aggressive and saying, hey, let's see, you know, how it, how the iOS market behaves. Because again, let's go back to basic principles. Why do people advertise on iOS? It's because the consumers who are holding those iOS phones are disproportionately spending time on that screen.
And those users are valuable, and ads must be shown to them in order to get the product and demand and influence the branding of those products into the minds of the consumer. Now there is no thesis changing there. The iOS users are still very valuable whether they give consent or not. If they give consent, then with the device ID more targeted ads can be served. If those users are not giving consent, in certain cases some vanilla ads can still be served. And on iOS the advertisers are still keeping up their spend. My broad view is in the next one year you would see that all of these turbulences will be settled.
Everybody would know how many users have given consent and that may be statistically valid for targeted advertising to continue to thrive, not only on those are giving consent, but also on an extrapolation probabilistic basis on those who have not given consent. And it will still work out just fine. So I don't expect the overall balance in the ecosystem iOS to Android to change. Yes, one-fourth or two, you may see more spends going to Android than iOS, but eventually the fundamentals of the business will balance it out in favor of just keeping the equilibrium. I don't think any material change will happen.
Sure, sure. Much appreciated. Thanks a lot and best of luck. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ashwin Mehta from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, thanks for the opportunity and congrats on the Jampp acquisition, so I had one question. While the cookie disabling will not hurt Affle because you're not on the browser, but in Android 12 version they're proposing to cut access to the advertising ID if a user opts out, and essentially that will show the developers a string of zeros, so while digital advertising will continue, how does it impact the CPCU model which needs intelligence to target, and secondly, what's the time frame for this reaching the developing markets? Because it seems by year end it will be only launched in a few select set of phones.
Ashwin, you are equally familiar that Google is deeply anchored on digital advertising.
And therefore on a cookie, which is a very outdated technology in my opinion. For more than 25 years of internet existing, the cookie has been around. You know, it hasn't evolved or changed or improved. I think cookie deserves to be given a rest. Even there, where Google has complete control on a Chrome browser, what have they done on the cookie? Nothing, except for saying they will do something in 2023 on the Android ecosystem. Google has less control than it has on the Chrome browser because the Android goes through operators and OEMs and is deeply adapted by them across different markets. And Google doesn't have as much control on Android to go ahead and do some fundamental changes. The OEM on the other hand has certain things.
For example, let's say you take a new Android phone from one of the OEMs and if the OEM wants to make advertising revenue, the OEM will, the time of you setting up your device, take a blanket consent.
Okay? And if they take a blanket consent, that's it, the problem solved. Google itself will work with the audience to make sure, look, I need to do something because I have to show to the world that iOS has done something. Google also has to do something. But here are the five ways that you can make sure that work. Now, even if, let's say, the OEMs and the operators also everybody becomes like Affle and say, "Hey, now we are consumer citizens and custodians and we will ask for consent. We make it really hard for advertising to happen on our ecosystem." Let's say everybody suddenly behaves like that.
I can tell you I'm still not nervous because the consumers in emerging market, as long as 50% of the people say I consent because I want to use this app, which is free and I'm okay to see ads, I consent. As long as 50% of the world in emerging markets does, that Affle CPC business will not see any impact because that statistically relevant sample for us to run our data science algorithms to do any extrapolations that we do. Please know today the bigger challenge is that 20% of India is online shoppers. We are extrapolating on the 80% who has not done any conversion online to figure out who is predictively going to be the next shopper or not.
So I'm telling you that as we go along, number of shoppers in India would grow and out of that, if 50% give their consent, we will still have statistically more data to learn and may find algorithms tighter to get the job done. Having said that, we are still on the device with, like I said, with the keyboard with OEMs and operator partners and there will be multiple ways to ensure that we can be compliant with data regulation privacy laws and yet achieve consent-based CPCU business model advertising. I am absolutely convinced about that.
Thanks Anuj, this was really helpful, and just one broader question because in terms of our international expansion to areas like LATAM, you talked about CIS as well. From an internal structure perspective, how do you manage these multiple countries or is it largely the regional management which kind of takes care and it's more an oversight from say the headquarters?
Participants, please stay connected. Line from Mr. Logistro.
Ladies and gentlemen, please stay connected while we rejoin the management team to the call.
In the meanwhile, Ashwin, can you repeat the question?
Yeah, Kapil, so my question was in terms of the fact that you are in so many diverse markets now with Latin America, CIS, Europe, Southeast Asia. So from a structure perspective, how do you manage these multi country operations? Is it largely in country teams which are managing it and there is only oversight from the headquarters or how's that structure being put in place? Because you're talking about more countries getting added like say Russia, CIS and maybe even.
I understood your question just to answer this. Anuj had answered this in his discourse to other questions. We have dedicated teams for each of the geographical regions like Southeast Asia that is headed by a dedicated management team for LATAM. Now we have the founders coming on board the Jampp to manage the.
Country. Similarly, for CIS and other geographies, we have internationally a team which is dedicated to international markets. So we have four different management teams focusing and building, focusing on each territory as a geography. Right. So we do not have cross-selling or you can say our teams are looking multiple territories and managing their time on a part-time basis. So we have full-time dedicated management bandwidth to all these regions.
Sorry to interrupt you. We have line from the Sangani connected to the call.
Hi, sorry I got disconnected but I got the gist of what was answering. Yes, absolutely. Look, we believe in execution focus as an organization and we are, you know, as a culture internally. We do not necessarily celebrate multitasking and short attention spans.
We like focus, dedicated effort going towards depth and breadth of growth within specific GEOs and establishing claim to win. Playing to be market leaders. Right? So we are not saying that, okay, let's be in 50 countries around the world and be nobody in each one of them. We will go to those countries where we know that, okay, at least in emerging markets, if those countries are part of our emerging market definition, we are playing to win. We are playing to be market leaders for sure. And that means local dedicated execution focus and teams who have only one goal which is to achieve market leadership positions in those markets and they have to live and die by that.
In developed markets we will take niche positions. We are not saying that in developed markets we will go and become market leaders. That will be an expensive a llocation of capital to achieve that. We don't think that we need to do that. We need to own our territory of emerging markets, be known for that. And in developed markets we should make the larger players run for their money. You know, we should be a very strong challenger over there. And I think that's a very smart execution philosophy that we have taken. And I'm convinced that the current management team structure and the way we are leading them is sensibly in place, not just from an efficient execution perspective, from a good governance perspective.
Thanks. Thanks Anuj. Thanks for your insights. Always helpful.
Thank you very much. I will now hand the conference over to Ms. Anuj Khanna Sohum for closing comments.
Great. Thanks for your questions and thanks for joining in to listen in with interest. I have always celebrated value creation within Affle. We have never celebrated or made internal talking point about valuation, and we continue to be very high on conviction, confidence, and competence. You know, with respect to where we are as a company. With Jampp completed, with Bobble double down, with our CPV partnerships thriving with the kind of cash balance sheet strength that we have now, not just from organic cash flows but also what we did with the QIP, the company is stronger than ever before and more confident and convinced than ever before, and I think my management team bandwidth in terms of strength is again stronger than ever before, so you know, I've said it before and I'll say it again.
Affle 2.0 is about achieving a massive global reach of over 10 billion connected devices globally. We are laying the foundations for achieving that by strengthening our presence across global emerging markets like no other company in the world, and that gives me a lot of confidence and conviction to say we will deliver disproportionate value creation as we continue on this journey, so thank you and we will be in touch again soon.
Thank you very much. Thank you. On behalf of Nomura Securities India Co. Ltd. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.