Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to AGS Transact Technologies Limited Q1 FY25 earnings conference call. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on beliefs, opinions, and expectation of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not guarantees of future performance and involves risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing the star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ravi Goyal, Chairman and Managing Director. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Good morning, everyone. Thank you, and a very warm welcome to each one of you for joining our Q1 FY 2025 earnings call on behalf of AGS Transact Technologies Limited. With me on this call are Mr. Saurabh Lal, our CFO, our Executive Directors on the board, Mr. Stanley Johnson and Mr. Vinayak Goyal. Vinayak is also the Managing Director of our fully owned subsidiary, India Transact Services Limited. For your reference, we have uploaded the investor presentation and financial results on the corporate website and stock exchanges. We are happy to report a promising performance in Q1 FY 2025, and we are confident that we will continue this momentum. In this fiscal year, our focus will remain on improving the growth and the margins of the business, paving the path for upcoming opportunities. Allow me to spend a few minutes here to talk about our strategy.
As a part of our strategic growth outlook, we are making conscious efforts to expand our digital payments business. We are also scaling down low-margin businesses, such as the other automation businesses, and moving towards increasing our revenue from services. We have created an asset-light model under our wholly owned digital payment subsidiary, India Transact Services Limited, and will be focusing on expanding our PPI infrastructure through the Ongo card and ecosystem. We will be leveraging our digital payment ecosystem through strategic collaborations, contributing to the top line as well as to the bottom line. In the recently concluded quarter, we launched ATM cash withdrawal facility on the Ongo prepaid instrument platform, which will provide the Ongo users a seamless accessibility to funds across all 256,000+ ATMs on NPCI network.
The Ongo Card offers accessibility to corporates, merchants, and consumers as it is backed by RuPay platform, having acceptance points across India. I'm happy to inform you that the pilot of Ongo Fueling, which will be our flagship product under digital business, is near to completion, and we expect to launch it in H1 of FY 2025. We've onboarded close to 1,300 fleet vehicles in this phase. For added convenience of the consumers, we are testing AI-enabled voice control fueling on the same platform. Ongo Fueling is a niche solution which will be launched on a pan-India basis. The potential for market for fleet fueling is about 1.6 lakh crore on an annual basis. With reference to the issuance of National Common Mobility Card or NCMC, we have issued close to 55,000 NCMCs for Bangalore Metro as of date.
These cards can be used for traveling as well as shopping online and in stores. We are targeting to issue about 5 lakh NCMC cards during FY 2025 and about 35 lakh NCMC cards over the next two to three years. Further, the recent RBI mandate has allowed the issuance of NCMC cards without any KYC verifications. These cards have a limit of INR 3,000 and can be used at various modes of public transport across the country, including metro, bus, toll, parking, and water metros. Overall, we see a good opportunity here. There are 7.5 crores closed loop cards issued by all the metros, which can be converted to NCMC cards over a period of time. Here, I would like to inform you that we are currently in talks with the Metro Corporation to launch no KYC NCMC cards in H1 of this year.
According to annual report of Reserve Bank of India, there was a 54% increase in the digital payment transactions from 103.9 billion transactions in FY 2023 to 160.4 billion transactions in FY 2024. The growth was led by UPI, which had share of 79.7% in the cumulative volume of digital payments in FY 2024. The growth in deployments of point-of-sale, mobile POS terminals, interoperable QR codes, among others, have been aided by the Payment Infrastructure Development Fund, that is PIDF. Overall, growth of digital payment is significant, which is a healthy sign for the industry, and we are well poised to leverage this growth.
We also offer cash management services through our wholly owned subsidiary, Secure Value India Limited, which complements our ATM outsourcing business and services, our cash management requirements for both captive and managed ATMs, and contributes nearly 14.2% of the revenue from operations in Q1 of FY 2025. During the recently concluded quarter, we have set up a new cash vault facility spread over an area of 15,000 sq ft in Bengaluru, Karnataka. This state-of-the-art facility will offer world-class cash processing and vault services. The recent demand in ATMs and CRMs, which is underway by H1 of this year, will benefit the cash management business, as there is significant demand for support infrastructure such as cash vaults and logistics. This will further enhance business operations and improve efficiency.
As of June 30, we have installed, maintained, or managed a network of approximately 63,044 ATMs and CRMs, and more than 36,200 ATMs, CRMs were serviced through Secure Value India Limited. Secure Value India accounts for 463 vaults and spoke locations. We have about 755 pick-up and doorstep branching points and a network of 2,370+ secure cash vans across 1,800+ cities and towns. Lastly, I would like to share that the company has initiated an equity purchase of INR 2,000 million, that is INR 200 crore, through preferential allotment. This will help us drive sustainable growth for our business in the long term. Now, I would request Stanley Johnson, Executive Director of AGS Transact Technologies, to share the business development highlights. Stanley, over to you.
Good morning, everyone. Let me take you through the business outlook for ATM outsourcing business in quarter one of this year. This has been a key growth area for us. It has traditionally been working on a transaction fee model. In the last quarter, we announced the shift in our focus towards the hybrid fee model. I'm happy to share that we have successfully renewed a contract with a leading private sector bank to manage their ATM under outsourcing portfolio. This contract allows a hybrid model which covers a fixed fee and a transaction fee. It will generate additional annual revenue of INR 300 million while maintaining the existing cost structure, thus improving profitability and margins.
Further, to give you a an update on the order win from SBI, the deployment of 1,350 ATMs, which will generate a one-time revenue of INR 750 million, is on track and will be completed by the first, the H1 of this financial year. Another order win of 2,500+ ATMs under outsourcing portfolio will begin in the second half of this financial year and is expected to complete by this financial year. It's. The order value is around INR 11,000 million over seven years, which will add INR 1,500 million on an annual basis. Our ATM outsourcing portfolio contributed 54% of our quarterly revenue from operations, and around 6.4% of the top line came from AMC business. The revenue share from the service stands at 93% in quarter one.
The contribution from the service remains healthy, as this income is supported by long-term contracts and is recurrent in nature. The Indian ATM industry is projected to grow at a CAGR of 9.2% between 2024 to 2032. This is due to the growing demand for ATMs and CRMs. As leading banks expand their branches, various RFPs in the range of 18,000-20,000 ATMs and CRMs are currently underway in the first half. The demand in the industry provides a significant opportunity to expand, potentially increase the market share and profitability. At AGS Transact, we are well positioned to grab a significant pie of this growth. We have a state-of-the-art infrastructure in Navi Mumbai. It houses a 24/7 monitoring center that helps us in ATM monitoring, cash forecasting, and cash reconciliation for all our ATM service operations.
We offer transaction switch platform and fraud detection tool for various clients. Our software lab for carrying out various pioneering new initiatives, and we also have a testing and a repairing center to ensure smooth functioning of our products and solutions. Now, I would request Saurabh, the CFO of AGS Transact Technologies, to share the financial highlights of quarter one. Saurabh, over to you.
Thank you, Stanley. Good morning, everyone. Now, I would like to take you through the financial performance of the company for quarter 1, FY 2025. In quarter 1 of FY 2025, the total income of the group stood at INR 3,516 million versus INR 3,794 million in Q1 of FY 2024. Going forward, we anticipate an increase in revenue by renegotiation of contracts, new order wins, and execution of those orders, and our digital initiatives... Talking about the EBITDA number, in Q1 of FY 2025, the EBITDA margins stood at 29.9% versus 27.1% in Q1 of FY 2024.
Our EBITDA on absolute terms stood at INR 1,053 million in Q1 of FY 2025, versus INR 931 million in Q4 of FY 2024, and INR 1,030 million in Q1 of FY 2024. I would like to highlight that in this, in quarter 1 of FY 2025, EBITDA represents reported EBITDA. There are no non-recurring expenses in this first quarter. For the comparison purpose, the EBITDA that I've stated above is adjusted EBITDA for Q1 of FY 2024 and Q4 of FY 2024, as there were some non-recurring charges we have taken in those quarters. Then, regarding the PAT number, we reported a healthy PAT of INR 138 million, as against a profit of INR 6 million in Q1 of FY 2024, and a loss of INR 44 million in Q4 of FY 2024.
The net debt position of the company stands at INR 5,857 million as of thirtieth June 2024. Just to give you a quick update on our subsidiaries performance in Q1 of FY 25. Secure Value India Limited, which is into business of cash management, reported a top line of INR 1,033 million, which is gross revenue including AGS, with a EBITDA margin of 20%. Its non-AGS business, which is a business coming from non-AGS customer, was close to around 47%. ITSL, which is again our digital subsidiary, which is of our acquiring and is going to be the flagship for our all the launches in this, in the Ongo space on the issuance side. The reported revenue from the operations is INR 334 million, with EBITDA margin of 9%.
GTSL, our foreign subsidiary, generated a revenue from operations of INR 194 million, with EBITDA margin of 26%. With this, we conclude our presentation and open the floor for further discussions. Thank you.
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their telephone keypad. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue is handled. The first question is from the line of Ankit Sanodiya from Smart Sync Services. Please go ahead.
Thank you for taking my question, and congratulations on good profitability and margin. So my first question is related to the numbers. When you look at the revenue, you've seen a degrowth of around 7%. And also, the main, as far as my understanding, the main, increase in profit has come because of, reduction in employee expenses and other expenses. So if you can throw some more color as to why revenue growth has not been there in this quarter, and, more detail about, the employee expense and other expense, that would be very helpful. That's my first question.
Thank you, Ankit. With respect to the revenue, if you see, over a period of time, the company has moved its focus mostly on the service revenue, and over a period of time, we have keep on reducing our revenue from the product side and continuously increasing more and more revenue on the service revenue, including payment solutions, covering cash, digital and everything. So from that perspective, though, even though there may be a reduction in certain revenue streams coming from the various business, we continue to ensure that whatever businesses that we're there in the contract that we have, they should be right contracts and should be, have a right margins for us to move, grow business from a profitability perspective.
So that is one reason there is a reduction in revenue, and this we have consistently telling the markets also and to the stakeholders, or everyone, that over a period of time, our revenue has degrowth. There is a growth, degrowth over a period of time, either on a quarterly basis or annual basis also. But at the same time, when we said that we will be reducing the revenue from from various businesses, like other automation solutions or maybe some contracts on the payment solution also, we have ensured that we should keep on keep tabs on the cost side also. So we have ensured that certain costs which are directly related to those contracts, directly related to those businesses, should be pruned down immediately.
Some costs get transferred over a quarter because of the contractual obligations that we have, warranty obligations that we have, or certain costs have a, I would say, transition impact also. I think those costs have started coming down, and that is why we have seen certain benefits coming from the cost side. But I would like to highlight that as Stanley also covered in his speech, that we have been able to negotiate certain contracts also, which has helped us to have a hybrid model where we got the transaction fee revenue and a fixed revenue. We have an incremental benefit on our revenue. Since there is no direct cost associated to those revenue, there will be incremental impact on the bottom line, covering the EBITDA and the PBT level also.
So, I think covering all those sectors, even though you have seen there is a degrowth in the revenue quarter-over-quarter or year-over-year, we have seen the margins profile of the company has significantly improved, both from the AGS standpoint, both from ITSL standpoint, or even Secure Value on overall basis. The EBITDA margins and the other margins for company is improving.
Got it. Thank you so much. That was very helpful, sir. My next question is related to our working capital. So when I see our working capital, sir, days payable looks very, very, very high. Can you just throw some more light as to how our days payables are so high?
... So, definitely, we have seen in the past also that the working capital cycle of the company is consistently high as compared to what the market expected, and the company is consistently making an effort to reduce those markets and working on those numbers that, okay, that we should reduce this working capital. But considering the nature of business, considering the nature of transaction in which we are, and the customers which we deal with, I think all this working capital cycle should come down, and company is making consistent effort to reduce this working capital cycle by prioritizing the billing, prioritizing collections, doing the reconciliations on a constant basis or frequent basis so that this amount should not get delayed, should not get covered, and should not get affected in the working capital.
Having said that, I think we also just covered that we have just executed a SBI order also, which is a VAR order, or I would say a banking automation order, where again, we have sold the product to the bank and we'll now collect this money over a period of time. Now, this collection will come once the ATM goes cash and everything. These are the factors which sometimes elongate our working capital. But I think our company's business, everyone's endeavor is to bring this working capital down and constantly focusing on to ensure that the money, money whichever is due to us should get collected at the earliest.
Got it, sir. So one last question again. Sir, when we did our IPO, it was completely 100% oversubscribed, and digitally we have done full allotment. So and I see the borrowings continues to remain almost on the same level over the last two, three years. So, is it fair to assume that we'll continue with the same borrowing levels and probably use all these funds to, or are we having any plans to reduce our borrowings also currently?
So under some of from a company's payment plan and everything, I think the borrowing mostly consist on the form of term loans, so which we have been consistently reducing. As you see in terms of last 1-year perspective, I think the gross borrowing and the net borrowing has come down from a significant number because most of the borrowings are term loans, they have a fixed horizon and tenure on which we have to repay. And I think in the and the plan of the company is to definitely become debt-free over a period of time in the next three to four years, as we have already communicated last time also.
The money that we're collecting is definitely going to get used for the business purpose, expansion purpose, and maybe for working capital purpose also, as per the defined end use that we have given in our offer letter also. But yes, the company's constant effort is to keep the borrowing at a level which is sustainable in the form of adjusted debt to net worth, adjusted debt to borrowings and all those ratios in mind.
Thank you so much, Sir. I, I'll get into the queue if I have more questions.
Sure.
Thank you, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ritika Dua from Kotak AMC. Please go ahead.
Hi, yeah. So firstly, on the revenue outlook, which I think has been discussed by the opening speakers. You mentioned three lines. One you said is obviously the hybrid fee model, which will help you maybe add, if I heard them correctly, some INR 30 crore. So firstly, what is this INR 30 crore? Is it like... Are you saying that this will be on an annual basis, or after that reset for this year, you'll benefit out of INR 30 crore? Is that first question. Second question is that, if I heard you correctly, you said that another INR 150 crore of annual revenue would come on a recurring basis. So that's the second clarification. And thirdly, you said that certain digital initiatives would also help you maybe, you know, improve your revenue.
So firstly, if you could, clarify on these three counts on relating to your revenue, and this is the clarification you provide, how do you think like maybe revenue should pan out in the next, maybe at least in the next, one year, if not one to two years? That's my first question.
Sure, Ritika. Thank you, Ritika. Ritika, I'll go one by one. Definitely, as per what Stanley covered here is that the revenue, which is a hybrid model contract that we have renegotiated with the bank, will help us to have incremental revenue of INR 30 crore. So definitely that is the incremental revenue on the annualized basis that will get accrued to us. Second, there is another contract of State Bank of India, which is still not signed, right? But yes, we are confident that this will get executed in this quarter and will definitely get closed maybe in two to three quarters from now.
The annualized impact of that revenue will be approximately in the range of INR 150 crore incremental revenue on the basis of the contract fee and everything that we've received from the client. So based on that, we assume that we are confident that we will have an incremental revenue of INR 150 crore coming into this business on an annualized basis. Third, on the digital initiative side, definitely, as we said, we have a very strong plan to execute this new NCMC rollout part. We have a plan to initiate this Ongo Fueling go live and everything. So all this new initiative will give us an incremental revenue because these revenues are, I would say, negligible in the case of past performance or past quarters and past years.
So whatever new issues that we do, whether we do it for NCMC, whether we do for Ongo fuel, it will be incremental revenue to the existing top, top line that we are already growing or already earning.
Thanks, Saurabh. So just if I could just maybe just one more clarification. So obviously, I got the point that the 30 + 150, so roughly INR 180 crore is an annualized number. So assuming that it comes only in the nine months, so maybe proportionately, that, what is the, the benefit that we are looking at for this year? And how much of that would actually... You know, so and then that sets in the base. So, when we should look at a stable revenue or how does it really work? So at least at best, this number continue in the next year, and, there could be a growth over it also. So if you could just maybe help something on the future as well on these two counts, because these are large numbers.
saying INR 50 crore + INR 150 crore, INR 180 crore proportionately, even if it's for 9 months, it's a good number.
Correct. So, Ritika, on the, on the INR 150 crore, definitely it's an annualized number. So automatically, and as I said, as Ravi also mentioned, it's a 7-year contract, so we will continue to earn that revenue for over a period of 7 years, depending on the actual transaction that will happen. Hundred and fifty is the average number that we assumed over the period of annualized basis, translating around INR 1,100 crore of revenue accruing in next 7 years. Second part, as I said, but yes-
Okay.
For this year, there is a possibility that this full revenue will not come, but yes, on an annual basis, once this contract get executed fully, 2,500 ATMs, this is what we believe that this is an additional revenue that will get accrued on an annual basis to us.
So sorry for this, because I am obviously a little new to understanding the HDFC.
Mm-hmm.
Your annualized revenues, you know, if I see the historical numbers, you were at about average number of INR 1,700 crore.
Mm-hmm.
Now you're looking to add INR 1,100 crore via just one particular contract. So-
That is for seven years, Ritika. That is for seven years.
No, no, I understand that, sir. I understand that. But, still, I mean, if I see that if this is not a very new business that, you are entering into or something, a new category, we would have done this, ATM outsourcing business, I think, in the past also. Maybe I don't know if the quantum is so large or something that or in the past also, whenever you have received orders to this extent, because, you know, these are all new and rolling contracts. Has the revenue potential been so huge over a seven years? I mean, have you seen in the past also?
It depends on the size and the number also, but since this is a significant order and a significant number of ATMs, that is why this is a huge number. Otherwise, in case of normal growth, the normal incremental revenue that we keep on earning from the existing contracts, the quantum may not be that huge. But yes, this is a single PO of 2,500+ ATMs. This becomes a significant order of INR 1,100 crore.
Right, sir. Okay, maybe, sir, on the second question that I have is on the OpEx, I think, which somebody else was also trying to understand on the call. But if you could just still guide some bit more here. And when I just see the numbers, the employee OpEx in numbers, it was roughly a INR 46 crore move to INR 54 crore. So is it maybe because of some maybe payouts, annual payouts? And then the other expenses have moved down from INR 190 crore to INR 154 crore. So that's also some INR 30 crore of reduction in other OpEx. And you are saying that incremental revenue addition in this piece is also INR 30 crore. So I don't...
I'm not trying to put both together, but if you could just maybe help us explain this a little bit more.
Sure. So on the expense front, definitely from the employee side, yes, there were some annual payouts which had an impact in quarter one and which is not on the annualized basis. This will have an impact in quarter one, and to some extent, will have some impact in quarter two also, and then it will automatically goes down. From the other expenses perspective, if you see in the last previous quarters, there were certain write-offs that we have taken, one-off write-offs, and there are certain commitment fee PNL charge that we have taken. So since both majority of both the charges are not significant there in this quarter, so there is a significant reduction in those two costs.
Plus, there are other things also, as some revenues has trimmed over a period of time, so automatically certain other costs associated with those revenues has also got trimmed. So those were the reasons for the cost reduction specifically.
Okay. So, just to maybe clarify this, so this INR 190 crore had the INR 36 crore non-recurring in it?
Yeah. If you compare with the last quarter, yes, yes.
Yes. Okay. So actually, so actually from INR 190 crore minus INR 36 crore or roughly say INR 30 crore, so the- it's actually flat, INR 160 crore, INR 160 crore on a sequential basis then, the other, other OpEx, is what you're trying to say?
Ritika, I don't have the exact number, but yes, that is what the major reason is there.
Okay. So and just maybe some guidance here, too, sir, would help, you know, how do you look at this number? Like you said in the opening remarks, that a lot of one-offs are done with now. How should this number move incrementally?
So, from a business perspective, there are certain direct costs that will continue. So that will go as a percentage of revenue. Other than non-recurring expenses or one-off items, definitely, we as a management and a company trying to ensure that we should recover what all the money that we have given to the customer, and its impact is to the minimum. Or whatever impact is there, that is taken as a cost of doing business, which is a normal recurring expense to the company perspective. So that is what we have. So the cost will continue in the form of in ratio of revenue, except those one-off items. If you can exclude those one-off items, then you will able to definitely do a, I would say, percentage linking to either payment solution business or from a outsourcing business.
Or, in case you need more detail, we can definitely do this offline discussion, and we can give you more details how the segmental revenue or you can look at the segmental revenues or segmental cost and make out the percentage of EBITDA or gross margin that we generate on every business on business.
Sure, sir, I'll definitely do that. Just maybe two more questions, if I may.
Yeah, please go ahead, Ritika.
Yeah. So secondly, on the depreciation, how, what is that you have to maybe guide here? And that is one question. And secondly, second question is that you said that the preferential is not necessarily to weigh down the risk because it has a 30-year term loan structure, and it has a fixed obligation, et cetera. So how would you- how do you look to utilize the INR 200 crore preferential? So two questions, yeah.
So, so on the, on the depreciation side, because mostly the depreciation is in the form of the assets that we have deployed, that is ATMs and other sites assets and the ROU assets. Most of the depreciation is on those fronts. Second, on the preferential issue side, I think the INR 200 crore of capital that will get infused in the company. From the current use, we have decided that some percentage will go for, debt reduction, so debt repayment. Some percentage will go for the company's working capital business purpose, and the certain percent has been kept as a GCP purpose. So I think covering all these things together, we, we, we have some flexibility to use this capital.
With the current business plan in hand, with the current strategy in hand, I think this capital will be applied as per the internal approved plans or as per the board-approved guidelines.
Lastly, so how should we model the tax rate now going forward for FY 25?
Tax rate? The tax rate, that will be a normal Indian entity, since we have most of the revenue coming from Indian entities, so the tax rate will be approximately same, same tax rate, except for a few benefits that we get because of many of our losses that we have. Otherwise, from a ETR perspective, the tax rate will remain same.
What is that, if you don't mind?
It's approximately 25%-26%.
That is, that is the number we should model in?
Yeah.
Okay. Thank you. I'm done.
Thank you, Ritika.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rishikesh from Robo Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thank you for the opportunity. So my first question is that there was a request from industry for a rate increase to RBI from INR 17 to INR 21 for ATM transactions. So if you could please comment the status for the same?
This is Stanley here. There has been representation with the industry on the increase of interchange. We have just learned that there is a subcommittee formed to review that across at both RBI and IBA level. So I think we should hear shortly on the review of the new interchange rates.
Okay. So regarding our revenues, how much percentage of our revenues come from transaction-based revenue?
Rishikesh, Saurabh this side. So since our contracts are with the bank directly, so in some of the contracts, we, our revenues are linked to interchange. But in most of the contracts, it is already a pre-negotiated rate per transaction that we have with the customers or with the banks. So-
The INR 4 increase, INR 4 it would not impact positively on the bottom number?
Not really. In one of the, or I would say, couple of contracts, definitely it will benefit, but not for all contracts. Mostly in industry, whoever are the players like us, who are basically brown label players, since they have bilaterally negotiated these contracts with the banks, the rates are already agreed in the form of off-us transactions and on-us transactions. Some of the contracts have the flexibility, which has an interchange linked rate on upside and everything. That benefit will come to us and to other also. But otherwise, this interchange impact will definitely go to the issuer on the first side, and definitely the issuer shares those forms of additional revenues with us in the form of compensating other revenues, but not directly.
Yeah.
So the major gainer of the interchange revenue would be the acquirer banks.
Mm.
Because of the increase of the interchange, you will see deployments happening more across. More number of ATMs would come under the outsource model, as you see the interchange rates going up.
Okay. Okay. I also have a question regarding our POS segment. So if you could, let me know, what is our revenue from Q1 in POS?
Sorry, which, which?
Q1 in POS.
Oh. So the POS segment revenue is approximately around INR 330 million, my bad, INR 334 million.
Okay. And regarding POS, our GTV growth looks flat for last few quarters as well. So if you could shed some light here as well, and how do we see the GTV growth going ahead?
So, Rishikesh, definitely on the GTV side, as is, as we said, the acquiring business, we continue to do with, mostly with the oil marketing companies. So wherever the POS has been installed, we're trying to cover up to get to the maximum revenue on the POS side. But at the same time, we are putting more a team and effort right now to set up our issuance base also. So, I think on a strategy of the POS side, I think we have deployed most of the POS terminals at the oil marketing companies, wherever we see the profitability and wherever we see the revenue numbers are okay.
The last few quarters, you must have seen that we have not deployed any major POS in this segment also, and we continue to generate the revenue from the existing POS deployment that we have. So from a perspective of growth, I think the more from the ITSL perspective, I think mostly the revenue and other things where we are putting focus is on the issuance side. The POS will continue to give us the existing revenue run rate and everything, and definitely it will help us to continue to harness our relationships with all these retail outlets and other things where we can do certain other business combinations and other business deals and business transactions.
Do you have any internal, you know, target of, how do we look the POS revenues to grow going ahead in FY 25 and FY 26?
Well, we definitely have a plan. So I think, as I said, the most of the POS revenue comes from the oil marketing companies and our corporate customers. So internally, definitely as a team, we keep on growing that numbers on certain percentage basis. This is how the POS network will grow from the acquiring side, from the oil marketing companies, and also from the corporate deployment, whether to the organized retailer or through tie-up with the banks. So these are the two channels where we're expanding. On the retail side, I think, the company, as a management, we have taken a stand that it is very difficult to grow that retail tech business, and we'll keep on continue to put focus mostly on the oil marketing companies or on the organized retail.
Okay. And then also, regarding ATM revenue, the one additional annualized revenues that you actually brought by deployment of new ATMs, this is over and above what what we are doing currently, right?
So out of this, the price increase has already been incorporated into the quarter one. Yes. As for that additional INR 150 crore, yes, it will be over and above.
Okay. Just last question: do we expect our Q1 EBITDA margins to sustain going forward?
Richard, definitely, yes, the target is to ensure that we continue to sustain, yes, that over a period of time.
Okay. Thank you very much, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rahul Mehta, from JM Financial. Please go ahead. Hello, Mr. Rahul, your line has been unmuted. Please go ahead with your question. Mr. Rahul, your line has been unmuted. Please go ahead with your question. We'll move on to the next question. It's from the line of Tushar Sarda from Athena Investments. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. So, I wanted to understand this renegotiation in terms of ATM charges. Is it happening for all your ATMs or only for some? And what is the total impact going to be? Is it going to be INR 150 crore per annum or, you know, as more negotiation happening with revenues coming in?
So, specifically, what right now we have updated to the everyone is that we have negotiated this rate increase with one of the bank right now that we have in our portfolio, and that benefit is in the form of around INR 30 crore of incremental revenue that we go through. So INR 150 crore is a new contract deployment with State Bank of India. That will, once get deployed, that benefit will come to the company over a period of time. And on the annual basis, we see there is a potential of increasing our revenue by INR 150 crore once this, all these ATMs get deployed.
This INR 150 crore is new revenue, new ATMs?
Yes, new revenue, new ATMs.
Associated costs. It's not incremental revenue in that-
It's not a negotiation. It's a new contract.
Okay. This INR 30 crore covers how many ATMs?
It's a pool of more than 6,000 ATMs.
6,000 ATMs. Okay. So any more renegotiation you think which will benefit your revenue?
There are a lot of discussions going on, sir, but still not finalized.
Okay. Okay. And what is the difference between this fixed fee and hybrid, you know, if you can throw some light on the commercials?
It is difficult to give you the detail on the exact commercials, but yes, on the hybrid side, sir, the ATM gives us the opportunity that we can earn the fixed fee to cover up our fixed costs and everything. And at the same point of time, we get benefited for every transaction that happens on the ATM. So that gives us the hybrid model. Under the full fixed fee model, we only get opportunity to earn a fixed fee on the ATM or on the CRMs, but no incremental revenue or no extra revenue coming if in case there is a high transaction on those machines.
Okay. Okay, thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vignesh Iyer from Sequent Investments. Please go ahead.
Hello.
Hi. Hi, Vignesh.
Hi. Sir, actually, I wanted to understand the Ongo Card business that you, you know, highlighted in the beginning that, you know, it's going to be used at the metros and pilot stages is going on. So what sort of revenue do we expect there? And can you explain us the model, is it on transaction fee and, you know, or how does it work?
Sure, Vignesh. Vignesh, on the Ongo platforms, so as I said, issuance platforms, so we'll be issuing the prepaid cards to the various consumers, maybe like you and me, or to the various corporate fleet operators in case of Ongo fuels. In case of NCMC card, it will be given to all the commuters who travel on the metros or maybe for transit purpose, because there is a defined end use for a NCMC card. It can be used on transit, it can be used on platform, it can be used on parking and another, on the train, on the bus, and all those things. So the revenue will come in the form of the interchange fees. In case of NCMC, there is a rate fixed by the regulator, which is around 0.58% of the transaction value.
In case of fueling, when we issue a Ongo Fuel card, we are negotiating the price with the oil marketing companies, like give it to the all other, partners they have. So they will give us that, those percentage of revenues again. It is a percentage of revenue of the volumes. So in whatever volumes, whether we do the issuance, all, all our revenues are linked to the total volume that we bring on the table for the, for the companies, maybe for the transit companies or maybe for the oil marketing companies. Our revenue stream will be percentage linked to the total volume that our platform will bring on the table for the oil marketing companies, for the platform, for the transit or any other business. And these, these interchange rates varies from every transaction to transaction.
In case you do for fueling, it can be anywhere between 0.4%-0.5%. In case of a transit, as I said, it's 0.58%.... in case of offline sale and purchase by you or me, it can go up to as, as high as 0.1, 1.3, 1.4% of net interchange to us.
Okay. So these are prepaid cards?
Yeah, these are prepaid cards. Yes, these are prepaid cards.
So where do you see the maximum potential? Because I think everything else, fueling and all, is not, you know, seeing that much traction. So where do you see the maximum, you know, potential for these cards being used, in the metros or transport or anything else?
So we see a good opportunity both in transit and a good opportunity in case of fueling also. Our product, which is Ongo Fuel, which is right now running at the pilot stage with one of the oil marketing company, is. It's going to be a flagship for us. We have tested this product in the past also, and we are right now also piloting in Mumbai area. And this is that product feedback that we've got, the corporates that we're using the product, which has a very, very unique features of preset. You can sit in your office, get your vehicle fueled and filled, your family can fuel it by you sitting here.
It's a cashless, cashless price-based system, where you can just upload your transactions on the app and immediately make the fueling as a hassle-free fueling without making any payments and everything. And it has a lot of other benefits in the form of preset of the fuel station, preset of the nozzle. The nozzle cannot move out of the fuel tank unless and until the complete fueling process has been completed or not. So there are a lot of other benefits attached to it. So I think this, this product is going to be our flagship product, which is from where we believe that the maximum revenue will come. And at the same time, we've already launched our prepaid card in the partnership with Bangalore Metro and RBL Bank, where we are issuing these prepaid cards.
We have already issued up to 55,000 cards up till now, and we're targeting to take this number to 500,000 cards in the next few, in this year itself. So I think these, these are the two main products that will add up to our majority of the revenue in case of, issuance is concerned or Ongo platform.
The Ongo platform, Q1 revenue is INR 65 crore, correct?
The Ongo platform, the Q1 revenue is INR 65, but in that, in that portion, the Ongo revenue will be less. Most of the revenue will come from acquiring transit and other solutions.
Okay. Okay. What is the margin in this business, approximate?
As of now, Vignesh, definitely the, the ITSL is working on an EBITDA margin of around, I would say, 9%-10%. But as we scale up, as we grow the business, the volume grows, I think the fixed costs are almost same. As, as we grow, I think the margin will grow. So very difficult to give you the exact margin, but I think that the rate at, the price at which we're going to negotiate the contract, I think it will, it will have a significant margins growth.
Okay. Okay, then I'll get back with you. Thank you.
Sure, Vignesh.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Tushar Sarda from Athena Investments. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity again. Since your business model is undergoing a change, you know, you are moving to more service-oriented things, do you have any guidance for next one or two years with which we can work? So in terms of revenues and EBITDA and net profit.
So, Tushar, as of now, definitely it's very difficult to give the exact guidance on everything. But as we said, our business is... I'm not saying it is pivoting, but yes, it is transitioning from an only ATM operator to an integrated operator from ATM and digital transactions and digital business, with a very, very, very focused approach on growing the digital business on the issuance side. At the same time, ATM and cash continue to be a big business growth for us. I think since ATM and cash continues to grow, ATM and cash continue to be our priority sector, that will keep on growing and adding as per the market dynamics.
But yes, digital business, where our presence on the issuance side is very, very negligible at this point in time, or very small at this point of time, as it grows, as it moves forward, this will add a significant base to our top line, and it will also add significantly to our bottom line also. So, very difficult to give you the exact guideline, but I think the growth will be seen in the numbers over a period of time.
Okay. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you, Tushar.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today's conference call. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for the closing comments.
Thank you all once again for joining us on this call. Before we sign out, I would like to summarize our outlook for fiscal 25. Our near-term objective is to grow and scale the digital business by building an open loop API infrastructure through the issuance of cards and wallets. We will continue to strengthen our ATM outsourcing business, our cash business, and focus on increasing revenue share from our services. Thank you so much.
Thank you, thank you, everyone.
On behalf of AGS Transact Technologies Limited, I thank you for this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you, you may now disconnect your lines.