Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Ajanta Pharma Q25 Earnings Conference Call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Yogesh Agrawal, Managing Director of Ajanta Pharma Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good evening and welcome to all of you. With me, I have Mr. Rajesh Agrawal, our Joint Managing Director, Mr. Arvind Agrawal, our CFO, Mr. Raju Agrawal, our AVP- Finance and Investor Relations. I hope the results are already there with you. Now, we will take you through the business-wise performance for Q3 and nine months for the FY 2025, along with the comparison of the previous year for the same period, so you'll be glad to know that our performance for Q3 was satisfactory as a branded generic business saw a healthy growth of 10%. This was on the back of our strategic approach and focused execution, along with the consistent efforts which allowed us to strengthen our position as a leading player in the pharmaceutical industry. Our concentrated efforts on improvement in working capital cycle have resulted in generating free cash flows of INR . [audio distortion]
INR 675 crore, with 97% of PAC conversion in nine months, which is indeed a remarkable achievement. We are confident of sustaining this momentum and driving continued growth in the coming quarters. Our excellence in terms of strategy and operational execution will enable us to deliver long-term value to our shareholders. Now, moving on to the business details. During the quarter, revenue from operations was INR 1,146 crore from our three verticals of branded generic, U.S. generic, and institutional business in Africa, a growth of 4%. During the quarter, 74% of our total sales came from the branded generic, which is spread across India, Asia, and Africa. The branded generic sales stood at INR 834 crore, posting 10% growth during the quarter. This business exhibits assurance, sustainability, and potential for the long-term growth.
Let me now take up international business, and I will first start with the branded generic business in Asia and Africa, which contributed 44% in the total revenue. In Asia, our presence spans across the Middle East, Southeast Asia, and Central Asia, encompassing around 10 countries. In Q3, sale was INR 316 crore against INR 292 crore, a growth of 8%, and in nine months, sale was INR 888 crore against INR 776 crore, a healthy growth of 14%. We launched nine new products during the quarter, taking total tally to 22 new products launched in nine months in the Asia region. Let's now move to Africa. Africa business is spread over 20 countries. In Q3, sale was INR 173 crore against INR 155 crore, a growth of 12%, and in nine months, sale was INR 617 crore against INR 472 crore, a healthy growth of 31%.
We launched seven new products during the quarter, taking total tally to 10 new products launched in nine months in Africa region. Let us now talk about other two verticals of international business. I'll move to U.S. generic. U.S. generic contributed 21% to the total revenue. In Q3, sale was at INR 263 crore against INR 252 crore, posting a growth of 4%, and in nine months, sale was at INR 723 crore against INR 703 crore, a growth of 3%. Our superior execution continues to keep us as a preferred partner of choice for the distributors. In nine months, we filed four ANDAs, received five final approvals, and launched five ANDAs. We now have 48 products available on the shelf and 21 ANDAs awaiting approval with U.S. FDA. I now move to Africa institutional. This business contributed 3% in the total revenue, which comprises of anti-malarial products.
In Q3, sales was INR 33 crore against INR 86 crore, posting a growth of 61%, and in nine months, sales was at INR 118 crore against INR 188 crore, a growth of 37% due to lower purchases by the Global Funds. As informed earlier, this business remains unpredictable due to the reliance on procurement agencies' schedule and funds availability. Now, I invite Mr. Rajesh Agrawal, our Joint Managing Director, to take you through India business. Thank you, and over to you.
Thank you. Good evening to all of you. I'm delighted to inform you that under strategic initiatives, we have forayed into new therapies in IPM, namely gynecology and nephrology. The total IPM size for both these therapies is approximately INR 16,000 crore as per IQVIA Mat December 2024. We have added 200+ MRs in these two new therapies, which are a part of the total addition of MRs so far. We have launched about 12 new products in these two therapies in Q3 FY 2025. Coming to our performance, it was an excellent quarter on the back of increased volumes and new product launches. India business contributed 32% in total revenue. In Q3, sale was INR 345 crore as against INR 308 crore, a healthy growth of 12%, and in nine months, sale was INR 1,083 crore against INR 982 crore, a growth of 10%.
India business increased revenue from trade generic, which contributed INR 43 crore against INR 38 crore in Q3 and INR 130 crore against INR 120 crore in nine months in the same period of FY 2024. During the nine months, we launched 26 new products, out of which eight were first-time in the country.
Participants, please stay connected. We seem to have lost the line for the management. Please stay connected while we reconnect the management. Thank you. Participants, please stay connected while we reconnect the line for the management. Participants, thank you for patiently holding your lines. We have the line for the management reconnected. Over to you, sir.
Okay. Thank you. So I will continue the statement again. We continue to outpace IPM by 300 basis points, with Ajanta growing at 11%, surpassing IPM growth of 8% as per IQVIA MAT December 2024. This trend extends to most of the therapeutic segments we are in, where our growth has consistently outpaced the segment growth. In the covered market, we continue to be fourth-largest in IPM and among top 10 in all our therapeutic segments. As per IQVIA MAT December 2024, our faster growth is contributed mainly by volumes, which was approximately three times more than the IPM volume growth. Cardiology contributed 38%, followed by ophthalmology 30%, dermatology 23%, with the remaining 9% coming from pain in India-branded states. We have added 250+ medical representatives in Q3, taking the total addition to approximately 450 in the first nine months of FY 2025 and total tally to 3,450.
These additions will help us drive India business in the coming three to five years. This addition is in line with our strategy of increased focus and expanding product market. I now invite Arvind Agrawal, CFO, to take you through the financial performance. Thank you, and over to you, Arvind.
Thank you. Good evening and warm welcome to the third earnings call of FY 2025. On this call, our discussion includes certain forward-looking statements which are projections or estimates about the future events. These estimates reflect management's current expectations about future performance of the company. These estimates involve a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause our actual results to differ materially from what is expressed or implied. Ajanta does not undertake any obligation to publicly update any forward-looking statement, whether because of new confirmation, future event, or otherwise. We will look at the consolidated financials and provide year-on-year comparisons. The key financial highlights of Q3 and nine months of FY 2025 are as follows. Total revenue in Q3 stood at INR 1146 crore against INR 1105 crore, posting a growth of 4%. In nine months, the revenue was INR 3,478 crore against INR.
3,155 crore, posting a growth of 10%. The growth was lower than our expectation due to lower institutional procurement of anti-malarial products. Our gross margins stood at 77% in nine months and an improvement of 200 basis points from FY 2024. This was the result of higher contribution from branded generic business in overall revenue. We expected to remain in the similar range with quarterly movement of 50-100 basis points due to change in product mix. Personnel cost in Q3 was at INR 265 crore, an increase of 15% on the back of increased MRs in India. For nine months, it was at INR 810 crore, an increase of 21% due to a one-time charge of about INR 30 crore for change in gratuity policy in Q1 and increased MRs in India.
Increase in medical representatives in India will see the costs slightly going up in the coming quarter. R&D expenses were at 5% of total revenue. In Q3, expenses were at INR 53 crore against INR 52 crore in nine months. It was at INR 52 crore last year. In nine months, it was INR 161 crore against INR 157 crore last year. We expect the expenses to be at 5% of revenue for the fiscal. Other expenses in Q3 stood at INR 302 crore against INR 266 crore, and in nine months, it was at INR 918 crore against INR 792 crore previous year same period. It will be noted that the other expenses include forex loss notional towards mark-to-market of hedges of INR 14 crore in nine months FY 2025.
As informed in previous call, the increase in expenses was in line with our guidance due to increased SG&A expenses. The expenses in Q4 are expected to be on the same level as Q3. We achieved EBITDA margin of 28% in both Q2 and nine months. EBITDA stood at INR 321 crore against INR 314 crore, a growth of 2% in Q3, and INR 962 crore against INR 894 crore, a growth of 8% in nine months for previous year. We expect the EBITDA to be around this range, plus or minus 1% for the whole of FY 2025. Other income was at INR 30 crore in Q3 and INR 76 crore in nine months of FY 2025. It includes forex gain of INR 18 crore and INR 26 crore respectively in Q3 and nine months.
Income tax stood at 24% during Q3 and nine months, and is expected to be on similar lines for FY 2025. In Q3, PAT was INR 233 crore against INR 210 crore, a growth of 11%, and in nine months, it was at INR 695 crore against INR 613 crore, a growth of 13%. PAT stood at 20% for both Q3 and nine months of revenue from operation. We incurred Capex of INR 180 crore in nine months FY 2025. Capex, including maintenance Capex for FY 2025, is estimated to be at about INR 225 crore. We have improved all the three paths of working capital in nine months of FY 2025 from FY 2024. Inventory stood at 71 days against 73 days, trade receivables at 86 days against 109 days, and payables at 66 days against 85 days.
This is the result of our consistent effort in improving working capital cycle. In nine months of FY 2025, we have generated a heavy cash flow from operations of INR 985 crore, with a cash conversion ratio of 102%, and free cash flow of INR 675 crore, with 97% PAT conversion. RoCE and RoNW continue to improve and be comparable to the best in the industry. RoCE stands at 35% and RoNW at 26% at the end of December 2024. With these highlights, I open the floor for questions and answers. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask questions may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking questions. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. To ask questions, please press star and one. The first question is from Tushar Manudane from Motilal Oswal Financial Services. Please go ahead.
Yes, thanks for the opportunity. Sir, we're interested to start off new therapies in Indian market for what end. Is this quarter reflects the additional expenses related to these therapies, or these are expected to further increase in the coming quarter? That's my question.
So, as far as people cost is concerned, about 200 people who have been added in these two therapies is already included, and it will continue in these other quarters also, coming quarters also.
The marketing expenses?
Marketing expenses are yet to take off. I think it will slowly go up in the coming quarters.
Okay. So, effectively, considering these factors, maybe I've missed the EBITDA margin guidance for FY 2025 and 2026?
I think.
Remains at the same level what we have given last year at the beginning of the year. We have maintained 28%, plus or minus 1%. So I think we feel I think it should go in that direction for the whole year.
Understood. And just secondly, with respect to Ajanta's, we filed four till date in this financial year. So the target of eight for full year sort of achievable, or we might.
Yeah, it will be achievable. There are a lot of ANDAs which are queued towards the quarter end. So we are expecting to file four more ANDAs in the last quarter.
Will that result in higher, say, at least from accounting point of view, R&D costs? And so that will have from a Q4 perspective, we have to ask in terms of the impact on the margins?
No. Actually, R&D costs have already incurred because it's just waiting for the stability data to come out and things like that. So that has already baked into the current quarter and the last quarters. So we don't see any significant expense increase in the next quarter also. There could be a marginal increase, but not a significant increase in the expenses, considering R&D, domestic launches, what we have done for the addition of the people, all those things. Maybe we can see a slightly more impact in the next year, but we'll talk about the next year when we finish the year.
Got it. And just lastly, if I may, considering there are so many therapies available, what sort of factors went into drive to a conclusion of selecting nephrology and gynecology as the next sort of growth lever, additional growth lever for India market?
Nephrology is a natural extension of what we have been doing already for so many years. We have been covering nephrologists by way of marketing and selling our largest brand, Feburic, which is the second largest brand in that particular therapeutic segment. So nephrologists made a logical sense for us to expand our footprint and product portfolio, have a dedicated team and task force. It is also a small kind of set of customers that we need to cover. So that suits the way that we have really built our business. Gynecology, I feel this market is still large. It is INR 11,000 crore plus market, and I feel that we have required a product portfolio and a skill set to make our presence in this segment. It's a large segment, and we would like to be prominently present over the coming three to five years.
Got it. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to participants that you may press star and one to join the question queue. The next question is from Amlan Das from Nomura India. Please go ahead.
Hi sir. I just wanted to ask, what is your outlook for the Africa anti-malarial business? Is it going to remain low, or do you have any outlook regarding this?
Yeah. As you have seen, the current quarter we saw significant growth, and for the whole year also, there's a degrowth, sizable degrowth, I think, of about 40% or more. So for the whole year, that's what we are looking at, around 40% degrowth from the last year. Going forward is a bit uncertain because of the announcement made by the Trump administration of not in favor of funding the USAID and some more things. But then there was a rollback and some clarification given by the after 24 hours or two days that they're going to continue with some critical medicines and life-saving medicines. So I think that's still an evolving landscape. That determines purely on how much money the donor agencies, donor countries give to these procurement agencies. But yeah, I think it is current year, we have seen a degrowth of 42%.
But I think in overall scheme, it's become a very small component of our business. It is now 3%. Maybe next year, the way our other businesses will grow, the branded generic business in India, emerging markets, and U.S. this will even become a much smaller part.
Okay. Thank you. Sir, one more question. Regarding the India business, have you seen any sales for the new therapeutic areas that you have added in this quarter? It is a 12% growth. What is the contribution of these new therapeutic areas?
In the current quarter?
Yeah, current quarter.
No, it is insignificant. We have just onboarded the new team. They will take quite a few months to be productive. This is insignificant compared to the total domestic business.
Sir, what is the PCPM right now?
PCPM is about INR 3.9 lakhs at a complete blended average basis, including all the therapies, including all the MRs that we are present with. But I'm not adding the MRs that we have added in the last six months, essentially because that will take at least another year to be productive. So this INR 3.9 lakhs is at a rate of 3,000 plus MRs.
Okay. Thank you.
Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask questions, please press star and one. Next question is from Vishal from Systematix. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good evening, and thanks for the opportunity. With respect to U.S. generics.
Vishal, your voice is very low. I request you to use the handset. We can't hear you very clearly.
Yeah, please.
Is this better?
Yeah. Much better, Vishal. Yeah. So sir, with respect to the U.S. generic business, can you guide for the next year in terms of how many launches we can expect and any color on the type of these launches with respect to the market size that they address and whether they are early to the market in terms of immediately post-patent expiry or limited competition?
I don't think I'll be able to give you that in-depth granular details to you, but we are, as I told you, we've launched five new products during the year, and there are more launches which will happen in next year and in the next quarter and the next year, so in the beginning of the year, we had guided mid-single-digit growth for the U.S. market. We are pretty much trending towards that for the whole year. Nine months also is lagging like that for the whole year, so we are pretty much on what we had given the guidance and what we had made a budget internally. Next year, we feel we should post a higher growth, much higher growth. It will be double-digit growth.
But I will give you the growth in the next call on what we are going to look for the U.S. once all our budgets and targets are finalized. But there will be, I think, a decent number of new product launches which will happen in the next year also.
Would you be able to share any limited competition launch that you expect, complex product launch?
Unfortunately, sir, I don't have those kind of granular details. There will be a few products which are limited competition, that much I can tell you. There will be at least two, possibly three products which will be of limited competition.
Got it.
Yeah. Two products we are definitely looking at on the horizon, which would be limited competition, yes.
Okay. And with respect to these branded markets, Asia and Africa, can you explain the reason for these markets to be volatile over quarters? We can see sharp growth in some quarters while it becomes subdued, like this quarter was a subdued quarter for the Asia and Africa market.
So essentially, what happens here is actually our sales, which is a secondary sale which happens in the market, that is at a steady state. But because we are shipping from India to our distributors, and then there are lead time factors, and there are transit time factors which are all there. So that is the reason we see these kind of peaks and valleys, the lumpy sales up and going down. I think quarter-to-quarter variation is not the right way to look at the export sales. I think the nine-month or twelve-month horizon is the right way to look at that at the growth, and at the beginning of the year, we had guided for the branded generic business to be in the mid-teens.
As you will see, if you remove the quarter-to-quarter, if you see the nine months or what we are forecasting for the whole year, it remains pretty much in the outlook or guidance which we had given of hitting that mid-teens branded generic growth. So I would suggest don't read too much into the quarter-to-quarter. I think look at the horizon. If you see the Asia, the nine-month growth is 14%, which is what normalized because second quarter we saw 28% growth, quarter three we saw 8% growth, and Q1 was 8%-9% growth. So on the whole nine-month basis, it got normalized to 14% average blended growth.
All right.
Yeah.
Just one more on the new division launch, nephrology and gynecology. So whether these 12 products that you launched, any color in terms of whether these are kind of new launches in large markets and you would be a new brand in those categories and there are multiple established brands there already, or you are doing a different strategy here, or you're getting into very fast-growing categories within the space?
You're absolutely right. These are high-growth subtherapeutic segments which we have identified as our go-to-market strategy, and so the tailwinds are already there in our favor, and none of them are first-to-market at this point, but we are confident of being able to differentiate given our ability to engage the customer on the scientific activity and also through unique customer engagement activities that we do and that we have done in other specialties. We are quite confident the team that we have is a highly experienced team in these respective therapies, which gives us a head start, so this is how we will differentiate and make a presence.
Got it, sir. Thank you. Thank you. That's all from me.
Yeah.
Thank you. The next question is from Nitin Gosar from BOI Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Hi, team. I wanted to understand two aspects. Now, keeping in mind that the branded generics form a very dominant share of our revenue, and the outlook in branded generics is somewhere around 10, 12, 13% kind of growth, and U.S. becomes the only key moving part to drive the additional growth, how should we look at this company now from next two to three year perspective? India where we are having a lot of resources to be deployed, but growth rate is slightly, you can say, close to GDP or slightly anemic. How should one look at the organization from next three year perspective?
I think we are pretty much outpacing the market. Our growth has been, I think, 20% or 30% higher than the market growth. We feel comfortable the way we have positioned ourselves in the branded generic business. I think in a cumulative three years, I think low teens to mid-teens kind of growth in branded generics is quite doable, whereas the markets are growing at 8%, 9%, 10%. So even if we're able to do, let's say, 12%-15% growth on a three-year horizon, we would be almost beating the market by 50% and on a base which we have. In most of the markets, our growths are in the top five growth percentages in the market. So I think, I don't know, I think we should reevaluate our figures in the past and going forward. U.S., we had already guided in the beginning of the year.
This is a year where we don't have that many launches. A lot of launches were skewed towards the second half, so it is going to be a mid-single-digit growth, but we are looking to post a higher growth in the next year, but U.S. depends on like that. The year we have higher launches, the growth becomes higher. The next year, we may not have that much yet, but at the over three-year period, I think we should be able to post a mid-teens growth there also, I think, on a CAGR basis or probably even higher than that.
The point is, Nitin, it was only that the kind of cash flows we are generating, how should one see that getting redeployed? Or it will be a company which should continue to have a higher dividend payout, or there are enough avenues to redeploy the capital?
So we keep continuously looking at acquisition assets, but we are not forcing ourselves. We are not pressurizing ourselves to make an acquisition just because we have a large cash flow which is coming through. We rest assured whatever transaction deals are happening in the market, they come our way. We make really very judicious evaluations. They have to fit our therapeutic segments, our presence in the market. So multiple filters are there. We can't force and tie into acquisition. As and when it happens, it happens. But we are actually on the lookout. Till that time, we will give back the money payout. That payout will continue.
That's a fair point. In the opening remarks, there was mentioning of high cash flow generation. Vis-à-vis that, if I were to see the nine-month interest outgo is around INR 15 crores versus last year, nine months, around INR 6 crores. Why should that be, sir?
That is only basically because we have done some discounting of our reserves. So that is why that amount is being shown there. And this is again to make our working capital more efficient. So that is something which is a cost which has been incurred for them to do. And one thing is that it is neutral because as I pay that interest cost, definitely I earn the interest also. And it is always almost better than what I really pay the discounting charges.
Okay. And should now this become the norm for us?
Yes. I think we will keep on doing this as long as it is something which is doing a very positive sense for the working capital efficiency building.
Got it. Got it. Thank you. Thank you for answering the question.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from Tushar Manudane from Motilal Oswal Financial Services. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the follow-up. Sir, like the way we have added new therapies in India, any plans to work on that part for Asia and Africa markets as well?
Yes, yes. We are going to get into two new therapeutic segments in the international market. In the Q1 of next year, we will be launching a CNS line in our Asia market. And we are actively pursuing the gynecology expansion also in the international market. So next year, we will have two therapeutic segments added in the international market as well.
Got it. And sir, secondly, on the gross margins where we continue to strengthen quarter-to-quarter, so is it to do because of relatively lower proportion of US business or some moderation in U.S. business, and that is what is driving the gross margin, or this is the kind of gross margin which we should sort of assume in FY 2026 as well?
You're right, Tushar. I think it is more to do with the business mix. More the branded generic business, naturally the gross margins are going to be higher. As the proportion of US will go up, it may a little come down. But that is something which is very clearly the proportion of the business mix which is going to be there in the future.
Got it. And sir, lastly, as for the Asia market growth, we have been consistently growing at 14%-15% year-over-year past few years. This FY 2025, also nine months, we are almost at 14% growth. Maybe in terms of market share, if you could just highlight what is the market share we have and what is the visibility for such sustained healthy growth in this market for the next couple of years as well?
Oh, definitely. We command a decent market share in various countries where we have a significant presence. Our market share is in the range of 2%-5% despite we not being in multiple therapeutic segments. So a number of markets, number of molecules we are leaders, a number of therapies like cardiology, diabetes, ophthalmology, dermatology, our rankings are pretty high. So I think we feel very comfortable, as I always say. I think our existing brands, they have headspace to grow. We are adding more brands and more people. So a combination of that, we feel comfortable to keep growing in double-digit. There could be a variation quarter-to-quarter or a year-over-year, but I think in a compound annualized, if you take a three-year horizon, we feel very comfortable being able to post the low-teens to mid-teens growth in the branded generic space.
Thank you, sir. Thanks. That is so much good.
We have a very strong product pipeline. Just if I would like to add here, a lot of products are under registration, and we feel that there will be a continuous pipeline for us to keep launching. And there are a lot of products under R&D, which is the 5% spend which you see. A lot of products are getting developed which will be filed in these countries. So you can just continue to see that I think around 3%, 2.5%-3% of our growth, even in the emerging market, is coming from the new products. So that will continue to happen for the next two, three, four years, whatever the near-term horizon which we can see.
No, that's quite commendable, and we really appreciate the kind of growth you have exhibited in this region. Thanks. Thanks for your expansion.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from Rashmi Shetty from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Just on the U.S. business again, we have seen both year-over-year and quarter-on-quarter growth. And I guess that flu season was also weak. So what has really contributed the growth? Is it that the new launches have added, or is the price erosion has come off? If you can say that. And whether this new product launches which you had done in the second half would actually lead to a better quarter-on-quarter growth in quarter four in U.S. business, if you can guide that also.
Yeah, you're right. There have been a number of launches which have happened. So we got the market business for those products. We also increased the market share in our existing products. So that also got added. The flu season got pushed out a little. So we are seeing the flu season taking off now, actually, in the, let us say, last week. So I think we feel that probably the next quarter is where the flu season effect will come in our next quarter. So if you see last two quarters, we were around INR 230 crores odd for the quarter. And this quarter, we did INR 260 crores. So we added INR 30 crores. I think we should be able to improve on this figure also quarter-over-quarter for the next quarter based on the launches, market share which we have got and the flu season kicking in.
If all goes well, I think we should be able to post the number higher than the INR 260 crores also for the next quarter.
Understood. That's really helpful, and the number of launches we have done in nine months is five, so any more expected in quarter four?
Quarter four, I think maybe not, I think. No.
Okay.
Yeah. No new launches in the quarter four. Yeah.
Okay. And in FY 2026, how many launches are we planning? Will it be six to eight launches like we do every year, or it will be higher than that?
No. I think we are looking at six to eight launches for the next year.
Okay. And just on the EBITDA margin, generally, quarter four is weak quarter where all the major cost comes in. And you mentioned that you would be able to maintain this kind of EBITDA margin. So just want to confirm that despite quarter four being weak, we would be able to maintain it, or there is more to it?
No, I think we should be able to maintain it. As I mentioned, plus minus 1% is always there. But otherwise, we should be able to maintain it.
Okay, and this is because our branded markets, U.S. markets, everywhere will be doing business, so even the higher cost will get absorbed.
Absolutely. Absolutely. You're right.
Okay. And my last question is related to tax rate. You mentioned for FY 2025, it would be 24%. But what it would be in FY 2026 and FY 2027? Should we model similar tax rate, or it would be higher?
2026, it will be almost same. 2027 may be higher because some of the exemptions will go away. So 2027 may be a little higher.
So, 27, it would be in what range?
Maybe 25.
We'll have to work out, actually.
It works out, but I think not beyond that.
Yeah. Probably we can share this in the next call. Right now, we don't have that figure already with us.
Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you. That's it from my side.
Sure. Sure.
Thank you. Next question is from Foram Parekh from Bank of Baroda Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
Yeah. So my first question is, since we are talking about entering newer therapies, even in Asia and Africa market, so do we want to increase our growth guidance in the next two to three years? Similarly, even for the Indian market, since now we are entering newer therapies, so should we still look at 12%-15% growth, or can we look at higher growth because of these newer therapies?
For India, it would be too early to factor the growth rates or increase the growth rate expectation because of the two new therapies. As you would already know, it would take quite some time for us to really penetrate. There are already strong incumbent players in both the therapies that we have entered. So no, I don't think that will have any significant impact on the growth rates because the growth rates are factored upon a large base. These businesses would be very small for the next 12 to 16, 18 months. So for domestic, we would not like to revise the guidance. Same for the international market. Our entry is with the CNS segment. It's very small with a handful of people. It should be 30 people. So in the overall cumulative figures which we already have a base, it's a small percentage.
Gynecology division will get added maybe in the third quarter. So next year, I think these new therapies will not add up so much in the growth of the whole year of the numbers. But yes, they will be built over the years. So going forward, I think they should become the sizable business.
Yeah. My second question is now on the similar line. So because we are talking about these businesses becoming bigger and eventually, so can we expect 30% kind of EBITDA margin and above because of these newer therapies scaling up maybe from 27 and beyond?
Normally, we don't give so far out guidances. We give year-to-year guidances. So I think probably it will be best that we have this chat, this conversation in the next phone call when we have all our figures, budgets, everything chosen. By logic, if you want to go, yes. When the growth will happen, the expense will not go that high. So there's always a possibility for expansion. But I can't tell you what it will be and what range. I think let's have this conversation in the next quarter.
Yeah. But are we looking at this 30% kind of the psychological mark of 30% and above kind of guidance since we are at 27%-28% hovering around this level since quite some time now?
I don't think I'll be able to give you any more insights on than what I shared with you. So my answer remains pretty much the same. Our endeavor will be to expand the margins. Is there a possibility? Yes, there is a possibility. What will be the number? I think I'll tell you probably in the next phone call.
Okay. My last question, if I may. I see SG&A cost except R&D contribution is quite low, which has increased the EBITDA margin to 28%. So going forward, I mean, with these newer therapies and therefore lower marketing expenses would chip in. So any outlook or guidance on what the SG&A contribution we are looking at?
I think SG&A contribution will remain almost the same. As the sales will grow, that contribution also will grow. Maybe a little higher proportion in the initial period, but afterward, it will stabilize.
Okay. Got it. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from Rahul Arora, who's an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Yep. Thanks for the opportunity. So my question is related to biosimilars and peptides. Are you planning to go into the biosimilar or peptide market in the future?
No. I think right now, yeah, no such plans actively to be pursued for the peptides.
Thank you.
Thank you. Participants who wish to ask questions, please press star and one. The next question is from Harsh Bhatia from Bandhan Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Good evening. Thank you. Just as a follow-up to the previous participant, I understand that you're not venturing into that part of the business, which is peptides and amalgam types or whatsoever. But if you can help us get some of your thoughts on the market dynamics. Obviously, there is another 12 months that are supposed to go when the international markets and even India goes off patent for certain molecules. But just your thoughts as far as in terms of how the groundwork is shaping up, what is the feedback from the medical community as such, anything can be observed?
Semaglutide undoubtedly is expected to be a blockbuster drug even in India when it comes off patent. Of course, there are several companies that are working upon it. As we shared in our previous question, it's too early to comment, really. It's 12-16 months out from today. So it's like a moving target. I would not like to comment anything on that at this point. But yeah, it's going to be a very lucrative market that is going to unfold in India for sure.
But you feel that as things stand today, again, whatever from your end could be helpful, but you feel that having a backward integration at the API level, which indicates for certain companies and maybe not for new companies, but you feel that that could sort of give an advantage given the fact that it is going to be a highly competitive market to that extent. The other point over here is also that the API is a difficult market for us. So this could be your thoughts.
Look, it's a complicated product. It's not a small molecule. And therefore, it's going to be a limited play. So if you're asking from Ajanta standpoint, we don't have those capabilities. Very few companies in the country have those capabilities to be able to manufacture Semaglutide.
Sure. Thank you.
Thank you. Participants who wish to ask questions, may press star and one. That was the last question queue. As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference back to Mr. Yogesh Agrawal for closing comments.
Thank you, everyone, for joining this call. In case there are any further questions that remain unanswered today, please reach out to our investor relations team. Thank you.
Thank you, everyone, for attending the call.
Thank you very much. On behalf of Ajanta Pharma, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, ladies and gentlemen. You may now disconnect your lines.