Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q3 and FY 2026 results earnings conference call of Arvind Fashions Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Girdhar Chitlangia. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thanks, Danish. Hello, welcome everyone, and thank you for joining us on the Arvind Fashions Limited earnings conference call for the Q3 ended December 31, 2025. I am joined here today by Kulin Lalbhai, Vice Chairman and Non-Executive Director, and Amisha Jain, Managing Director and CEO. Please note that results, press release, and earnings presentation have been mailed across to you yesterday, and these are also available on our website, arvindfashions.com. I hope you had the opportunity to browse through the highlights of the performance. We will commence the call with Kulin providing his key strategic thoughts on our Q3 performance. Post that, I will hand over the call to Amisha to take us through the financial performance and the business highlights. After the end of the management discussion, we will have a Q&A session.
Before we start, I would like to remind you that some of the statements made or discussed on this call today may be forward-looking in nature and must be viewed in conjunction with risks and uncertainties we face. A detailed statement of these risks is available in this quarter's earnings presentation. The company does not undertake to update these forward-looking statements publicly. With that said, I would now turn the call over to Kulin to share his views. Thank you, and over to you, Kulin.
Thanks, Girdhar. A very good afternoon to you all. Thank you for joining us for the Q3 results. I'm very happy to share that this quarter we have seen the highest year-on-year growth in several years. We have grown at consistent double-digit growth rates over the past few quarters, which demonstrates that our growth drivers have fallen in place. The demand environment was stable, and we achieved a 4.5% growth, led by healthy LTL growth of 8.2% in the retail channel and around 50% growth in the direct online channel, leading to an overall 18% growth in EBITDA, with a 40 basis points margin expansion. Our PAT, adjusted for the one-time wage code related charge, has also grown by 65%, which shows strong operating leverage coming through.
Moving forward, with a strong addition in sq ft, a healthy LTL growth, and robust growth in our direct, online and adjacencies, we hope to maintain this growth momentum. We continue to stay focused on our mantra of profitable growth, resulting in further improvement in return on capital employed. Arvind's reacquisition of a 31.25% stake in AYBPL reinforces Flying Machine's strategic importance within the AFL portfolio, with the brand positioned as a key growth driver in the denim-led youth fashion market. I would like to now hand it over to Amisha Jain to take us through the specifics and more details about our financial performance.
Thank you, Kulin. Good afternoon, everyone. Wishing you all and your families a very, very happy new year, and a warm welcome to the investor call for the quarter ended December 31, 2025. Q3 of FY 2026 marked another strong quarter for us, with revenue growth of 14.5%, driven by consistent execution across our direct-to-consumer channels. We delivered a robust 8.2% like-for-like growth, nearly 50% growth in online B2C, and a sustained double-digit secondary growth in our wholesale channels. In the quarter gone by, NSV stood at INR 1,377 crore, as against INR 1,203 crore in the previous year, same quarter, and our EBITDA was INR 195 crore versus INR 165 crore. We continue to grow our direct channels.
These together now account for nearly 63% of sales, a 260 basis point higher share over last year. Retail growth is very healthy at double digits, with very good like-for-like at 8.2%. Our expansion gathered pace, and we've added over 41,000 sq ft of retail space in this quarter. We are in line to open 150,000 sq ft in FY 2026. Our strategy is to pivot our online sales towards online B2C, and that is also yielding really good results. Our online B2C grew by nearly 50%, taking its share to 17% with significant improvement in channel margins. Coming to wholesale, the wholesale channels also grew double digits with some billing of Q2, which was impacted by GST transition earlier, that got moved into this quarter.
Both MBO and department store secondary sales have also witnessed a very strong double-digit growth. Now, moving on to brands. During this quarter, we acquired Flipkart's stake in Flying Machine. We believe Flying Machine offers a tremendous growth opportunity, and going ahead, it will operate with a very sharply positioned role, a Gen Z-focused unisex fashion brand anchored in on-trend expression with denim at its core. Flying Machine will launch its dedicated B2C platform in fiscal 2027, creating a direct-to-channel, more directly communicating to the consumers, building relevance, community, and cultural momentum with our Gen Z consumers. At a brand level, further, U.S. Polo continued its momentum and grew exceptionally at over 25%, led by impactful execution across all consumer touch points. Growth in other brands was nearly to a high single digit.
PVH brands growth was impacted due to geopolitical supply chain disruptions and transition to a new GST regime, where GST rates have increased from 12% to 18%. Talking about other categories, we, those also grew really well, and almost all of these growing in excess of 20%. These were predominantly led by footwear, which is now back to a very high growth. We believe that the disruption caused by implementation of BIS norms is now behind us. Overall, adjacent categories grew at 26%. Among the other metrics that showed improvement are inventory freshness and gross margin. Inventory freshness is at an all-time high, and gross margin is improved by 50 basis points. We continued our focus on advertising spends. Among the balance sheet metrics, overall working capital remains stable. Inventory buildup was to mitigate any geopolitical disruptions.
This has also helped us improve freshness and on-time season launch. Coming to the PNL, the growth in EBITDA at AFL in Q2 is 18.2%, of 40 basis points led by gross margin improvement. Since there was early onset of festive season and wedding season, we entered ESS a week earlier than usual. Overall discount was higher, but better channel mix cost efficiencies in select have led to improvement in margin. In this journey of profitable growth, the PAT, which is excluding Code on Wages, impact or in Q3 is at INR 44 crore versus a growth of 65% over last year. The growth in PBT is nearly 20%, again, excluding Code on Wages. As we enter last quarter of the year, we are reasonably confident of maintaining our growth rate.
We will continue our store expansion, and we hope to achieve a net square feet addition of 150,000 sq ft for this year. Our consistent execution on product in-store experience will help us deliver a healthy double-digit growth in retail and direct-to-consumer channels. We also expect that the government initiatives will aid higher consumer disposable incomes, leading to a demand improvement across categories in the medium term. The outcome will, of course, depend on how the market environment shapes up. Thank you.
Team, can we begin with the question and answer?
Yes.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll begin with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Our first question comes from the line of Avinash K. from Motilal Oswal Financial Services Limited. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Congratulations on a very good set of numbers. So if I heard right, you said, like, U.S. Polo growth is 25%. For a brand which is almost at INR 2,000 crores, what drove such a huge growth in this quarter?
Thank you. Thanks for your question. I think that's a great question, and I think we're quite excited to see the way some of the growth drivers around U.S. Polo are shaping up. I think, kind of, if you were to talk about how some of the initiatives that were put in place, one large thing that we've been talking about is product. I think the one thing that we're seeing is that U.S. Polo product elevation is extremely visible in the market. The consumer is taking that really well. We've been driving premiumization, and that is another trend that has worked extremely well for U.S. Polo . So all in all, I think from a product assortment point of view, our strategy is on point, and I think we've been growing extremely well.
The second thing is we did double down on how our distribution looks like in U.S. Polo , and our retail expansion has been targeted towards that. So, you know, shutting down of non-performing stores, but predominantly expanding retail, has also led to a significant growth. The third piece is that the other categories have been doing really well, and, you know, we've doubled down on that, especially with U.S. Polo . And if you look at it from that perspective, innerwear, footwear, kids, and womenswear have clocked upwards of 20%-25% growth as well. So I think from all in all, I think our growth drivers in U.S. Polo have been, have been significant. We've also seen, coming back to direct to consumer, you know, growth driver for us, we've also seen an 80%+ growth in online as well, right?
Overall, when you look at it, both all channels firing, retail doing extremely well, and online channel doing really well, that has led to the growth of U.S. Polo.
Okay, okay, understood. My only concern is that this isn't a case of channel filling or inventory stuffing, which led to growth in the near term.
Our like-for-like in U.S. Polo... Overall, from a retail point of view, the retail growth is at 23%, and our like-for-like in U.S. Polo is at 11%. The other important thing to note is, it's our mainline business in retail and our direct-to-consumer business that has actually grown faster. And when you look at our wholesale numbers also, our wholesale, while it is at double digit, if you were to remove the outflow from, of, Q2 and Q3, we are actually in line with the standard growth of wholesale as well. So it's really the consumer optic that is driving U.S. Polo.
Okay, that's a very good number for you actually.
Yeah.
Congrats.
Thank you.
Second thing is, a little bit of bookkeeping question. If you look at, like, employee costs, they have grown up by 23% this quarter. So is it a one-off, or how should we read it?
Sure. So I think there are two parts to it. Employee benefit expenses have gone up slightly in this quarter, more, you know, sort of putting in some money towards the employee welfare expenses, which is a one-off. And also some of it is the ESOP charge. But I'll also highlight one thing. As we spoke last time also, I talked about some of the growth drivers, and one critical growth driver that we had highlighted was our investment towards data, AI, and consumer centricity. And so we've also had, you know, we've kind of ramped up hiring there, and that's what you're seeing as well in the consumer intelligence piece and also invested towards some of the strategic pieces.
While we've done this, what you will see coming next year is that, you know, these numbers should come in line with the growth of the business as well.
Okay, so most of it is like, a steady structural basis, you'll see a similar kind of INR 80 crore on it going forward.
Yeah, there will be small cost. Hi, Girdhar here. There could be small, you know, one time, which will drop off some of the staff welfare kind of a thing, but, yeah, otherwise it will be pretty consistent like this.
Okay. Okay. That's it from my side. I'll join the queue. Thank you, sir. Thank you, ma'am.
Thank you.
Thank you so much. Our next question comes from the line of Kaustubh Pawaskar from ICICI Direct. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good afternoon, ma'am. Congrats for a good set of numbers. My question is on Flying Machine. Now, since we have consolidated it, and we have brought the brand under our umbrella, so now we will definitely look to redefine the strategy for the brand. Suppose you know, how much time will it take, you know, brand to really, you know, get back to its, you know, original growth rate, or maybe, you know, from... When we can see brand really start performing and adding materially to the growth and profitability of the company?
Sure. Great. Thanks for the question. I just want to kind of step back and talk about, you know, Flying Machine, holistically. You know, if you were to kind of look at from a market point of view, we believe that there is a tremendous opportunity in front of us in Flying Machine. As you can see, from a denim point of view, there's a large gap between the number one player in the market and rest of the brands. We have a belief that Flying Machine, with this equity that it holds and the positioning that it has had, we believe that it can be one of the largest denim players, both in men's and women's segment. And tying to that, also, one big thing, that one big push you will see is us addressing the Gen Z consumers in the market, right?
So from a portfolio point of view, Flying Machine is actually really, really well positioned to kind of take on that space, right? And that's why we're bullish about it. Now, given that, we will also see that our channel strategy will align that way. So we will have a bigger, bolder digital strategy. You will see us launch the flyingmachine.com in the coming fiscal year, and some of those initiatives will start lining up as we start, you know, working closer towards the market in terms of how we are targeting the consumer, serving the consumer, and addressing the consumer from a product portfolio point of view. Now, having said that, what you will see in this quarter, the way we've performed, we've seen a 17% like for like in Flying Machine in the stores as well.
Our B2C on Flying Machine has grown by about 40%. Department store has grown by about 35%. So, you know, to the, to the question that you're asking, we're already seeing green shoots. We're already seeing that the brand is, you know, sort of on its path, and we will need another couple of seasons, maybe 2 to 3 seasons, where you'll start seeing the brand sort of coming into its more of its mainstream growth as well. But I would also emphasize that it's already on that path. Now, obviously, given the movement, you know, given that we've now bought the stake, et cetera, what you will see us do is line it up better in terms of how it we will cater to the Gen Z consumer through other marketplaces.
So it opens up a few more avenues for us as well. And, you know, we are quite bullish about it. We will see momentum in this brand, continue over the next few seasons.
Ma'am, my related question to it is, since you are making it more a Gen Z focused kind of a brand, what, how will be the pricing differentiate, you know, differentiation will be with some of the brands which are already there in the market? So, you know, some of the premium brands which are already there in the market, and their focus might be something else, but you are focusing more from the, you know, Gen Z kind of a brand concept. So will there be any material price difference, which will be available in the market?
See, I think when you look at Flying Machine, it is actually very well positioned to be this strong youth denim brand. And when you look at the product market fit, I think it's got actually a phenomenal product market fit as well. Our products are priced exceptionally well for the value that we're offering. And so from that perspective, I feel that from a consumer point of view, it's actually very well poised to serve that segment of the consumer.
Okay, cool. Thanks. Thanks for the understanding and all the best for your quarters ahead.
Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Priyank from Vallum Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello. I hope I'm audible.
Yes, sir.
Yeah, so my question,
Team, my question is on the when I have to look at non-controlling interest, which has dropped quarter-on-quarter, and also on a long-term run rate, what explains this? Is it PVH, some, I mean, the growth issues at the PVH, and what would that be, if you can elaborate on that?
So, hi, Priyank, Girdhar here. You see, in the last quarter, there was a Code on Wages impact on the PVH business, which subdued its profitability by some bit. There was a FM model change also, where we moved to a different model with a couple of our partners. So because of which we had to reverse some of the sales and take a negative position on the PNL. So those are the two which explain the large part of the drop. However, having said that, I think when the GST was rolled out, there were some headwinds on the PVH business early in October and sometime till November. Post which, business has stabilized. I think there was a price increase, and, you know, consumers found it a little difficult to absorb and buy.
But since middle of November until December, and now we are seeing quite healthy growth, and those numbers are coming back. So largely it is attributed to some slowdown in PVH in the early part of the quarter. There were Code impact and a FM. Yeah, largely the PVH impact early in the quarter was because of the GST, where prices had to be increased.
I couldn't get the first point, moved to the different business partners. I mean, could you explain me that? What was the change in the business model?
Yeah. For the Flying Machine, we had to move to an SOR model with couple of our partners. So whatever was the inventory, we had to take it back and, you know, we started recording sales on a secondary basis. So the residual inventory at that transition time had to be recorded as a reversal of sales in our books.
Okay.
Which increased the loss, and hence the minority interest went down.
I think in PVH, the only-
Understood.
I think the PVH, the only point is that, given the GST transition from 12%-18%, we did pass on and increase prices there. So I think there was an interim blip that we saw in terms of that sticker shock. But what we've seen now is that the sales are stabilizing over there.
Got it. So, ma'am, when I have to just reconcile the like-for-like numbers, the U.S. Polo would have grown at 11, FM at 17, PVH might have seen slight decline. So, if the numbers are so high, so the balancing number comes only for Arrow, which would also have been negative. How does this reconcile on a total 8% like-for-like growth that we have reported?
See. Yeah, so see, all our brands have grown. I mean, while we've grown overall at a 15%, our brands, you know, since U.S. Polo , have grown at about single digits. And, you know, like for like, for example, you were talking about, has grown at for FM, has grown at about 11%. PVH has also grown. The thing with Arrow has been that there have been two things. One is we did see a little bit of a supply disruption because of the movement of goods from Bangladesh. And some of the key inventories were a little delayed into the market, which got streamlined a little bit from post-November, and now we're kind of on track, right?
So there was this minor, you know, sort of that movement led to us participating into the wedding piece a little later, which impacted Arrow a little bit. While Arrow has grown, it has grown in early single digits. Overall, what we see now is that all our brands are actually on a pretty solid positive growth.
Sorry, I'm just reconciling the numbers again. You said U.S. Polo like-for-like growth would have been early double digits, and FM also 11%. Is that right?
Sorry, say that again, please.
I'm saying, just getting a clarification on the numbers that you spoke out. U.S. Polo would have been 11%, and even FM, Flying Machine would have been 11% on the like-for-like growth.
Yeah, but share of Priyank, share of FM is very low.
Sure.
You know, while the number is double digits, the share is very low, and hence, you know, on an overall basis, the weighted average will still be 8%.
Got it. And one last thing, on a overall strategic part, when I have to look at nine months' performance, despite the solid performance on the top line, what we are yet witnessing is, I mean, yet on the EBITDA level, the uplifting has been done only via gross margin gains. I mean, the gross margin mix, of course, with the retail going up, is also going up, but it's not completely populating down into the EBITDA margin, which means that we are yet on a investment journey for our brands. When do we see the gains coming from the operating leverage and not only via gross margins, which will give us a confidence that the brands which are expected to turn around are actually performing well?
So I think, if I were to step back, as you may have noted, that, you know, we've expanded our margins by 140 basis points over the last two years with a focus on cost and other efficiencies. And so with confidence on growth, around double digits, we believe that operating leverage is possible in the business, and we expect EBITDA to grow more than 15%, and I think that's something that you've seen consistently as well. We have seen operating leverage year-over-year on fixed costs, excluding the one-time costs as well, right? So I think with all of that in place, we have also said that, you know, we want to make sure that we will continue to invest towards advertising as well, and we do to spur growth also.
So I think we are in line with, with that kind of an investment, and, given our growth trajectory, we're confident that we will be able to see more than 15% in terms of EBITDA growth.
All right, thank you.
Thank you, sir. Our next question come from the line of Tejas Shah from Avendus Spark Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity, and congrats on good set of numbers. Just wanted to start with, could you help us understand the strategic rationale behind increasing the online B2C contribution? And which of the three objectives it is primarily aimed at? Is it growth, profitability, or working capital efficiency?
Yeah, so I think, I think at a broad level, you know, we've called out that direct-to-consumer is a key growth driver for us, and us kind of getting more and more closer to the consumer. It does a few things for us as a consumer organization, as a brand organization. As we stay closer to the market, our learning and understanding of the consumers increases, and how we kind of pull that back into a feedback loop, not just from the way of how we are communicating to the consumer, but also from a perspective of how we are serving the consumer, the learnings around product, and our entire value chain, right?
So there's one large element of saying that as a brand, we want to be closer to the consumer and want to make sure that we are center of culture, you know, adapting to whatever the consumer is shifting towards, and we are able to do that faster. And hence, we've always maintained that we would like to take this number of us from a direct-to-consumer point of view, we do want to take it to about a 75%. We are at 63%, if you were to look at it from a share of business point of view, right? Overall, it also... A second point is, I think it allows us to actually also maintain pricing and keep that in check.
It allows us to continue to control the discounting, allows us to kind of, again, bring some of those gross margin and EBITDA numbers in check, right? So I think that's the second piece of it, in terms of how it will enable us to improve overall structural economics of the business as well.
Got it. Thank you. Second, just wanted to know what are the... You spoke about the distribution interventions that we would have made in U.S. Polo to deliver this kind of robust growth. So first, if you can elaborate a bit on distribution intervention that you would have made recently. And second, what is the white space or total universe which is available, the way you see it today, which gives you visibility of two to three years growth in this particular brand?
So the first part of your question was on distribution for U.S. Polo, right?
Yes. Yes.
Yeah. Okay.
Called out-
Yeah, so see, I think I'll kind of go back to again saying that, you know, our growth driver, as a growth driver, right, I think there are a couple of things that we had called out. One is retail expansion, second is kind of doubling down and focus on making sure that we drive retail efficiencies and hence, like-for-like growth. The third being digitization in general, right? And obviously driving adjacent categories. Now, when you apply this to U.S. Polo , it's been... It's firing on all of these fronts. In terms of retail stores, we've been at a pretty solid expansion, trajectory, and by the end of this year, overall, at a portfolio level, we will add net, 1.5 lakh net sq ft addition is what we will end up doing.
U.S. Polo , you know, obviously is driving a good chunk of this. At the end of the year, U.S. Polo will be at about 400+ stores, and we would have added close to 60 stores in U.S. Polo . But having said that, U.S. Polo is clocking very well in terms of the retail like-for-like also. Plus, on top of that, when we look at the online play in U.S. Polo , I think what we're doing is ensuring that the right product is reaching the consumer through this online channel as well. And there, we are also seeing that the growth in online of US Polo as a brand is actually pretty strong. So all in all, if I were to look at it, our direct-to-consumer channel strategy is actually playing out really well for the brand.
Perfect. And last one, if I may, yeah. How's the... What, what's your read on the health of inventory and working capital as it's today? Because at least on paper, it looks like it has grown faster than nine-month growth, revenue growth.
Yeah, I will answer. I will take that. You see, health of inventory, we are perhaps at the best ever health of inventory. Our, you know, inventory, which is more than two years, is lowest ever, I think, in the last three, four years. Yes, I agree that the inventory levels seem a little higher, but please understand that we are nearing an election in Bangladesh in February. And to de-risk some of those issues, and, you know, almost 15% of our product comes from Bangladesh. So to de-risk that, we actually took a conscious call to inward some of the inventory in early, you know, late December, which is showing up. We believe that, you know, this is transitory.
As the situation stabilizes, we will come back to, you know, normal inventory terms of between 3.8-4, sometime, somewhere there, actually.
Thanks, and all the best for coming quarters.
Thank you.
Thank you so much. Our next question comes from the line of Prakash Kapadia from Kapadia Financial Services. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Couple of questions from my end. You know, you've been guiding and achieving, you know, the mid-teens growth over the last few quarters, and you've been talking about, you know, some of the tailwinds over the last, you know, few months. So given some of these tailwinds, shouldn't, you know, growth aspirations now be slightly higher than what, you know, we've been targeting and achieving of that, you know, broadly 11%-14% sales growth range? And also, it will be helpful if you could comment on, you know, adjacent categories, how crucial is that, you know, to our growth strategy? What is the contribution of adjacent categories to our growth sales now? And you know, lastly, what would, you know, top 10 cities be contributing to our overall sales? Those are my questions. Thank you.
So I think, you know, thanks for the question. I think when you look at our growth over the last three quarters, and as you pointed out, I think we've done, we've shown significant momentum, and that's also on the back of, again, the, the strategic growth drivers that we had set up, right? That the team has been really focused on ensuring that we drive solid execution behind the, the strategy that we've kind of put together. Now, we continue to be, confident that we will be able to post double-digit growth, for this year, right?
Now, as you mentioned, in terms of the tailwinds, which are external, the government stimulus and the, GST, rationalization, et cetera, we do believe that in the medium term, that should help build the consumer demand, and we remain hopeful that, you know, that will, contribute as well. Having said that, I would still say that we are confident that we will, you know, start driving towards, and we will maintain our trajectory of growth between 12%-15%. We have been delivering at a little higher end of that, and, you know, given the growth drivers that are in place, we believe that we'll continue to clock, in that direction. In terms of the second question that you asked, around the adjacent categories, we are overall from a portfolio point of view, our five brands are actually pretty solid.
As I had mentioned last time as well, that for us, we do believe there is significant room for us to grow within this portfolio. Our other categories obviously are a key driver of that. Having said that, the mainstream business, and I'll come back to the conversation on all our brands, the mainstream business actually, which is more from an apparel point of view, actually keeps clocking in the same rate as well. Adjacent categories are critical, because as you look at our brands, consumers are expecting this, and our brands are actually more from a lifestyle positioning point of view. These are end-to-end brands, and hence, you know, for us, the adjacent categories are critical.
In terms of when I look at brand by brand, I think overall from a portfolio point of view, about 25% odd of our portfolio sits within the adjacent categories, and this drives significant growth. We do believe there is headroom for growth over here. Footwear has come back to 20%+, and so is innerwear in that range. Women's has clocked about 50%+ growth. While all of this still, women's is still in very, very early days, but overall, our belief is that, you know, these are some of the growth drivers of the future. While we continue to drive it, I will kind of still emphasize that our mainstream from an apparel point of view, actually it's quite heartening to see the way our brands have been growing in the men's apparel space as well.
Okay. Okay. And if you could, have that, top 10 cities contributions from here on, you know, how does, growth, you know, pan across? Is it pan-India? Is it more aspirational? Is it beyond the top 20 cities? Some color or context will help.
So overall, if you look at our brand portfolio, we are present across about 150 cities. And, you know, we will close the year at about, in the entire portfolio, we'll close this year with about 1,000+ stores within our portfolio. We do believe there's a potential for us to expand within the top-tier cities further, and we will only keep going in that direction. We will also continue to improve the boxes, the size of the boxes, and our retail expansion will continue from a net sq ft addition as well, right? So from that perspective, to answer your question, we do have a focus on the top-tier cities, and we will continue. On the specifics, we will get back to you on those numbers.
Sure. Thank you.
Thank you so much. Our next question come from the line of Palash Kawale from Nuvama Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Hi, thank you for the opportunity. Hope I'm audible. So my first question is on channel mix. So when do you see this growth in the online D2C stabilizing or reversing in this channel?
Can you-
Sorry, just can you, yeah, repeat the question?
My question was on channel growth. When do you see this growth in online D2C stabilizing? You have been growing pretty well in the channel, so when do you see the growth reversing to mean?
So, over the last four years, we have been actually trying to defocus on B2B while increasing our focus on B2C. I think the importance of both the channels will always remain, and as we go ahead, I think B2B is largely, you know, used during the large tower events plus some other events that are there. But B2C will be a continuous focus, and as of today, we see there is a big traction, and there seems to be quite a lot of natural demand which is coming. So, I mean, we are currently clocking more than 50%, and yes, I mean, at some point this will become stabilized, and we believe that it could be...
You know, overall, online growth will continue to grow at 12 to, sorry, 20%-30% year-on-year in the, in at least in the next near future.
Okay, that's, that's really helpful. And, is this one of the biggest driver for gross margin expansion for you?
There is surely an advantage of, you know, increasing share of the B2C, whereas Amisha said earlier, you know, we are able to control the pricing and discounting. However, I think a large part of our improvement is coming from, you know, both retail as well as B2C.
So, this expansion should continue going forward as well, right?
Yes.
Okay, okay. Next question was on, can you, like, can I, can we see the success of adjacencies, adjacencies in other brands like Arrow and FM? Is that possible?
See, I think every brand has its journey. Currently, you know, we are building adjacent categories where we believe there is relevance, and we will continue to drive that. And the scope of that and the scale of that is something that we will drive from where the brand stands, right? As we are looking at Arrow and FM, and, you know, we've been on this journey, and Arrow is a little ahead of FM in terms of the direction and, you know, how the brand is now positioned and turned around. While we are on this journey, whenever it is relevant, wherever it is relevant, we will start driving additional, you know, sort of build out of some of these other categories.
But, you know, it's more to do with the way the brand is built out, and I wouldn't kind of have a say that, you know, all brands will kind of go at the same pace on that.
Okay. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much. Yeah, that's it from me.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Neeraj from WhitePine Investment Management. Please go ahead.
Yeah, I wanted to, again, check the like-for-like for the FM. Was it 11% or 17%?
The like-for-like for FM is 17%, but like I had said earlier as well, I think we need to keep in mind that it's a very small, you know, part of our from a retail portfolio point of view.
Understood. Can you give the like for like for Arrow and the previous brands?
So, usually, you know, the brand-wise data, we don't share. I'm happy to connect with you offline so that we can discuss some of these.
The reason I was asking, wanted to know on the at least, the formal offtake in the market, how is it considering that there is a marriage season?
See, I think-
-upcoming? Yeah.
Yeah, I think, see, when you look at the quarter, right, I mean, wedding season was earlier this year, and, like I had mentioned, the formal - I mean, for us, Arrow has been doing well. You... It's coming to the place, slowly as we kind of, you know, drive the transformation of this brand. We are getting to a place, and in a couple of seasons, we will see, a shift there as well further. We are seeing an offtake. But having said that, you know, Arrow participates more from a formal wear point of view. And for us, the thing is that we partake in a very minimal level from a wedding perspective. So our observation on a formal market would be only limited to the scope of what, what we cater to.
Okay. And the last question on the margins on, I know you don't give brand price, but can you give a color when these Arrow and FM can, sorry, the Arrow and FM, yeah, can, break even or move to a reasonable number in EBITDA margins?
So Arrow, as we speak, post-Indus is profitable, and, obviously there is a journey between the brands. Flying Machine, as we have said earlier also, I think is still work in progress, and, it is about two to three quarters behind Arrow, and we are hoping that end of next year, probably we'll see some EBITDA profitability in that brand.
Got it. So once it stabilizes, whenever, a year, a year down the line or so, where do you see-
Yeah.
the margins stabilizing at a range?
Arrow can reach, you know, mid-single digits, in my view, within a year, and Flying Machine, as I said earlier, can near a break even.
Okay, good. Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Ashutosh from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. So, ma'am, my question is on the overall demand scenario. So, if we see that many of the value retailers have specifically highlighted that the demand is very soft, and they have given reasons like it's like overall subdued demand along with the competition that is there. But for Arvind, like, how is the premium segment performing? And also just want to add in this, one of the largest value retailer in quarter two said that the initial GST benefits actually went to the large ticket items. And they said that it will gradually flow to the discretionary side like the apparel. So are you seeing any any on-ground trends regarding that?
Overall premium segment, how it is doing, the customer trends, given it's almost like one month has already passed, in Q4? Thank you.
Yeah. So I think for us, you know, our brands, the one thing, again, going back to our strategy, we have been following a premiumization strategy, and that we have seen has been doing well. The demand from a consumer point of view has been actually pretty solid for our brands. And that stability we see, and we are expecting that to continue in Q4 as well. While it is only a few weeks into Q4, we remain hopeful that we should be maintaining our trajectory of growth in the 12%-15% zone, as we've communicated.
the value retail part of it, I mean, I can't comment on the value retail part of it, but I will say that from a GST perspective, we do believe that, you know, some of these initiatives should come back to, you know, boosting demand in a positive way in the medium term, while we may not have seen an immediate effect.
Okay, okay, understood, ma'am. And my next question is on the Q3 growth. So you said that there was some spillover from quarter two. So, what would be the normalized growth for Q3, like, if we can exclude the spillover?
I think the impact could be, you know, less than a percentage, I would say. Not much.
Okay.
I think the way to read it would be if you look at MBO between Q2 and Q3. It would look at a normalized growth of MBO, both put together.
Yeah.
Okay, okay. Understood. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Andre Purushottam from Cogito Advisors. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Well, congratulations for a good set of numbers. I wanted to ask about margin levers on four sub-dimensions. Okay, so I'll just take each of the sub-dimensions one by one and ask you, sir, if I may. Firstly, you mentioned operating leverage, right? Now, I wanted to ask, understand, apart from, let's say, the spreading out of overheads over a large number of stores, et cetera, what are your sources of operating leverage, and how do you see that panning out in the near future?
Okay, what is your next question? Keep going.
Yeah. Second question is really, okay, the other C is premiumization. How important is premiumization to you, and how much is that contributing to margins? The third question is cost control. How important is cost control, and where are the areas of cost control? And the fourth question is that with your increasing percentage of online sales from the current 17% to whatever they might be in the future, how much will that contribute to improving margins? And have I captured all the margin levers, or are there any other significant margin levers that I have missed out on?
I think at a broad level, I'll say that, you know, premiumization is a very important strategic lever, and when we look at our product portfolio across our brands, we have been driving a premiumization strategy. What we have seen is that the consumer is responding really well to that. Our brands are. While they are premiumizing, the product market fit is actually quite phenomenal, and our brands are all positioned in an aspirational part of their own individual segment, right? So from that perspective, premiumization is a very critical part of our strategy. Overall, as we've also communicated, that gross margin expansion is something that is, you know, and premiumization is kind of driving that as well.
Our focus has been on both on product, strategy, getting the right assortments out, and ensuring that, you know, we are driving premium within that segment as well, right? While offering great value to the consumer. Further, this has led to, GP improvement as we worked on the cost side of things, but at the same time, you know, our focus has been to kind of continue to reduce discounting at an overall level as well. So I think all in all, that part of the strategy kind of hits very hard. We've also maintained that as a company, we are very, very sharply focused on driving operating leverage, and hence you will always see our EBITDA, you know, growing faster than, revenue. And that, obviously brings in, to the question that you asked. Obviously, cost controls are part of it.
We have seen over the last two years, you've seen about 140 to 150 basis points sort of an improvement in the margin expansion with our focus on cost and efficiencies, and that includes fixed costs, et cetera. So, you know, we continue to remain focused over that. We will keep driving it. We will, as we drive our channel expansion, we do believe that OpEx will remain in line, and that should lead to EBITDA expansion as well. So operating leverage kind of comes and flows from there as well.
Well, I'm sorry, I, I think you didn't give any specific answers to my questions. First of all, I asked about what is the source of your operating leverage, and in terms of premiumization, could you explain what is, what are you doing actually in terms of your assortment, et cetera, et cetera, that is leading to premiumization? What are your initiatives in cost control, and does the increasing percentage of online sales increase your margins in any meaningful way? So I would request you to give me some specific color on these questions.
If I were to kind of go back to premiumization, and I think we can talk about the merchandising strategy. You know, for us, premiumization comes from two parts, right? How are you looking at the brand and elevating the product portfolio in general to ensure that the product mix is what is right from a consumer, from a market, and a channel point of view. So for us, premiumization comes in two lenses. One is, A, channel segmentation and ensuring that the product mix that we are aligning for that particular channel, for that particular store, is matched to what the consumer segment is. And our merchandising strategy and our merchandising grid is getting more and more sharper and aligned to a more sharper segment of a store of one, right? So that's, that's one part of it.
The second, from a premiumization point of view, is you'll see significantly improved product and innovation being brought to the market. And that also at a very solid, I've kind of mentioned this earlier also, very, very solid, product market fit over there. What we are offering from a price-value equation point of view is also extremely good. So, you know, while maintaining the aspirational quotient of the brand, premiumization is being driven both from a product mix point of view, from the individual product and innovation offering point of view, and how we are giving value to the consumer. That's all in all from a premiumization point of view. Does that, does that help you?
If I could just come in here-
Not very much. I'm still not getting an answer of your, the source of your operating leverage, because, you know, I understand operating leverage a little better in a manufacturing situation. In a retail-
No, no, okay, okay. No, I think, I think, Ravil, you asked two questions. I think we'll kind of park the premiumization part, because I think you are talking about both in the same breath. So premiumization, I hope you understood that part of the merchandising strategy, and maybe we can park that question?
Now, what I've understood, Rob, you have said on premiumization is that basically you are improving the product quality, and you're improving innovation. That's what I got. Okay? I don't quite understand what your linkage to merchandising to premiumization was. At least I didn't understand the connection. And-
So if you want, we can have a separate conversation, because I think merchandising is the key part from a brand merchandising grid point of view, and product mix and product innovation are key drivers. So I think, yeah, if you're trying to relate this back to manufacturing, maybe there could be a separate conversation on it.
If I could just come in here on a couple of examples of operating leverage in the business.
Yeah, that would be-
I think, first of all, on gross profit, one of the things we are seeing is constant sourcing advantage with scale.
Yeah.
So, I think one of the ingredients into GP is when you have larger scale, you are able to get sourcing efficiency. And, of course-
Yeah
As Amisha was saying, there's also, we are working on better full price sell-through and bringing our discounting down.
Yeah.
That's not necessarily operating leverage, but that's-
Yeah
One of the very large things that is going into GP enhancement today.
Right.
On the select side, the best way to think about operating leverage is through the lens of productivity.
Yeah.
When your NTL is very high, your store level fixed costs remain the same, but your revenue goes up faster.
Right.
So NTL, when it is in the high single digits, you are getting operating leverage on your sales, which is, again, a good operating leverage point. And then below your channel, margin is your overall company fixed cost.
Mm.
We have reached a scale now where the fixed costs of the company are, will not, in the years to come, grow as much as the, the scale of our CBA growth and our revenue growth. So that is a third-
Right
Source of operating leverage. At three levels, you will be seeing operating leverage coming into the company.
That, that helps. And in terms of cost control and in terms of percentage of online contribution, how does this ... What are the cost control initiatives that are still relevant to you, apart from what you've already mentioned in this list? And in terms of does the percentage, increasing percentage of online also improve your gross margin? And your, your-
I'll take online, and then Amisha can talk about cost. See, in online, we look at in all our channels a metric called CM, which is your contribution margin.
Mm.
Our online channel contribution is very similar to our offline direct contribution margin.
Okay.
In terms of any shift between channels, is not going to have a very major impact on our overall EBITDA, because they are similar from a channel profitability perspective.
Okay.
I hope that clears your question.
Yes, that... Thank you. That, that helps a lot. Okay.
Yeah.
Thank you. Thank you. I finally got the answers to my questions. Thank you.
Mm.
Great.
Thank you so much. Our next question comes from the line of Pooja from InCred Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, and thanks for the opportunity. Congrats on a good set of numbers. I just wanted to get some understanding on the ASP. So, how is it balancing? Is it more towards the higher end brands or the lower end brands? If you could provide me some clarity on that.
Different, Pooja, different brands have different positioning, and Amisha can add, and Tommy, CK, of course, are in the premium segment. You know, CK, we call it as a bridge to luxury.
Mm-hmm.
Tommy is, of course, premium, and different brands have different ASP. So if you could be more specific or, you know, we could, of course, catch up offline also, but we need more specific question.
I need to ask that, how is the overall ASP shaping up? Is it more towards the premium brands, or are they contributing more, or is it the lower end brands that are contributing more?
So I think if you were to look at our portfolio, I mean, our, our portfolio outcome is a mix of how our, overall mix of the brands, right? And we have our brands that are staggered up from Flying Machine that is positioned, as a, as, as a, you know, a denim-oriented youth brand, to as we scale up to, you know, U.S. Polo positioning, laddering up to Tommy and then to CK. So, you know, an individual brand from that perspective will sort of, you know, overall from a portfolio mix point of view, the ASP will obviously inch towards, the weighted average of these brands as well.
Correct. So, that's what I wanted to understand that. How is it, how is the segment-wise from the higher end brands or the lower end brands?
You are speaking segment-wise, which kind of segment are you speaking?
Like, yeah-
Can we probably understand this question offline a little better? Maybe we can. We can connect with you, Girdhar can connect with you, and we can understand this better and maybe respond to you.
Sure, sure. Thanks.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Shreyas Jai from Swan Investment. Please go ahead.
Hello? Hello, can you hear me?
Yes, we can hear you. Please go ahead with the question.
Yeah. Hi, Amisha, this question is for you. So given your background, what in your sense is the market for denim in India? And when you sort of look at that market, you know, barring Levi's, there has been no other brand, you know, which has been constantly among the top five, you know? So I'm just trying to understand, you know, what we hear and read is, you know, the top two, three, four, five, the number keeps on changing. And, you know, when you look at the growth rates of Spykar, Killer, Lee, Wrangler, all those brands, and, you know, even if I include FM in that list, you know, FM is at more or less INR 400 crore for the last four, five years...
So, what gives you the confidence, you know, that the initiatives that you take will actually drive growth from year on? Because, you know, in the past also, we've done a lot of things in the STP, but, you know, something sort of doesn't work out. So I just wanted to understand, is it a category problem? Is it a brand problem, or what is actually happening underneath?
So I think I can, you know, given the denim category in general, we do believe that we have actually a very solid opportunity ahead of us. At the same time, our brands are very well positioned to cater to that category. You know, even, even if I were to just talk about our entire casual wear portfolio, which is, which is laddering up from Flying Machine to U.S. Polo to Tommy and to CK. Denim as a category, we are looking to serve that, and we believe that we have an opportunity to lead in each of these consumer demand spaces. At that particular consumer cohort, we believe that we can kind of drive, you know, to a number one player in all of these spaces.
Now, coming back to the specific question, I think for us, the way we will go about building our brand is we are ensuring that we are, A, catering to the consumer and ensuring that we are catering to the specific consumer need, and that's the first step of it. And then what we will line up is three big things which will yield the results that we're seeking. I think it's important that we have the right product portfolio, and we feel extremely confident that with Flying Machine, we've kind of honed in on... And as I've seen now, the recent seasons, we've honed in on what the right product portfolio is from a consumer point of view. We're building out the assortment and ensuring that our overall, our merchandising strategy is aligned from that consumer profile point. So that's step one.
Step two is we're also sharpening the way we serve and reach our consumer, and that is another critical piece of it. You know, how do you speak to that consumer? How do we serve that consumer is an important part. We are actually doubling down on our marketing capabilities and going after this part of it. So, you know, I have spoken about this earlier as well. As part of our strategy, we are ensuring that we are going to segment the market. We're gonna make sure that we are going to start communicating in a more sharp manner and in a more current, digitally oriented world. And this consumer, we're gonna kind of drive that as well.
So the way we are gonna build the brand is going to be a second significant piece of, how we will go about it. The third is have ensuring that we are serving the consumer through the channel of choice. This particular consumer sits within a certain type of channels, and we want to make sure that we are catering to that consumer that way as well, right? So how do we go about a social media strategy? How do we go about our, digital strategy? How do we make sure that our digital commerce, our retail, is lined up to serving the consumer as well, right? So that's, that's what we're after, and you'll see us come out from a brand point of view in a more sharper way.
Having said all of that, you know, brands are built over a period of time, and us, what we are now seeking to do is build this consistency and consistently season over season, ensuring that we are... We have a sharp brand positioning, and we continue to cater to that consumer, right? With the right cultural hooks, with the right, you know, medium of communicating with the consumer. So to the question you're asking, I'm actually extremely confident and bullish. I do believe that we have a great opportunity to take on this market. We do believe that, you know, building out a brand of India, and building out this brand for the youth is, is also going to be a pretty solid positioning and the future of Flying Machine.
Having said that, I do believe our brand, other brands like U.S. Polo, Tommy, and CK are all extremely well-positioned to service the consumer cohorts they service. Service that consumer from a particular price point perspective as well.
Okay. And my second and last question is, you know, when we look at the overall business, you know, last two years, if I just, you know, dial back, 4.5% growth and FY 2025, 8.5% growth, and obviously, you know, U.S. Polo and PVH-
Hello?
1:30 only.
Danish, are you there?
Yes, yes, I'm here. So participant has left the queue. We will go forward to the next participant. Do you want me to go ahead with the next participant?
No, no. I will reach out to the person who was speaking, and I will finish the call. Thank you everyone for joining us on the call today. If you have any more questions, please feel free to reach out to us, and we would be happy to answer them offline. Danish?
Yes, I'm here. We can close the call, right? Hello?
Yes, yes.
Thank you. On behalf of Arvind Fashions Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.