Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Ashoka Buildcon 4Q and FY24 Conference Call, hosted by PhillipCapital (India) Private Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions, and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict.
A disclaimer to this effect has been included in the financial results and investor presentation, which has been shared with you earlier and available on the stock exchange website. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vikram Vilas Suryavanshi from PhillipCapital (India) Private Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Sagar. Good afternoon and very warm welcome to everyone. Thank you for being on a call of Ashoka Buildcon Limited. We're happy to have the management with us here today for question and answer session with the investment community. Management is represented by Mr. Satish Parakh, Managing Director, and Mr. Paresh Mehta, Chief Financial Officer. Before we start with the question and answer session, we'll have opening comments from the management. I will hand over the call to Mr. Satish Parakh for opening comment. Over to you, sir.
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Vikram. Good afternoon, everyone. Hope everyone is doing well. On behalf of Ashoka Buildcon Limited, I extend a warm welcome to everyone joining us today to discuss our business and financial results for the quarter and full year ended 31 March 2024. On this call, we are joined by Mr. Paresh Mehta, our Chief Financial Officer, and SGA, our Investor Relations Advisor. Let me begin by giving a few relevant industry highlights. During 2023-24, highway construction reached 12,349 kilometers, marking a notable 20% increase from 2022-23. Although it fell short of annual target of 13,814 kilometers, the majority of the construction, totaling to 9,642 kilometers, involve lane augmentation, while 2,707 kilometers was attributed to strengthening existing infrastructure.
NHAI constructed 6,044... 6,644 kilometers, with the remaining being constructed by other agencies, including NHAI DCL and MoRTH. Despite a sluggish start in awarding highway projects, with only 4,872 kilometers awarded in February 2024, the pace picked up in March 2024, resulting in total of 8,551 kilometers awarded in 2023-24. The ministry has spent around almost 100% of its revised capital expenditure, allocation of INR 2,645 billion. Industry research report predicts 5%-8% increase in road construction for the year 2024-25, estimating that approximately 13,000 kilometers of roads will be built. This growth is attributed to numerous projects in pipeline, increased government funding, and the Ministry of Road Transport and Highways prioritizing the project completion.
Construction activities are expected to accelerate after second quarter, following a typical slowdown during the monsoon season. The MoRTH has unveiled an ambitious 100-day roadmap to operationalize 700 kilometers of high-speed corridors, award 3,000 kilometers of highway projects, and implement a cashless treatment scheme for accident victims. The center is working large-scale cabinet proposal worth INR 20 trillion to sanction highway works aligned with Vision 2047, and this is pending cabinet approval. MoRTH aims to construct around 1,700 kilometers of highways in first three months post-elections. Additionally, MoRTH plan to address black spots with historically high road traffic collisions on national highways. MoRTH already spent around INR 54,500 crore on highway construction in April, May 2024, which is 20% of its total allocated CapEx for the year.
Despite slow, slow project awarding in second half of 2023, the ministry has continued its focus on project execution, with construction of 483 kilometers during this month ahead of general elections, compared to 523 during the same period last year.... Now on project front. Firstly, Ashoka Buildcon Limited has successfully concluded a sale of Unison Enviro Private Limited to Mahanagar Gas Limited. The deal has been closed at final equity consideration of INR 562.09 crores, out of which the company has received INR 286.67 crores for its 51% stake. In January 2024, company has received letter of acceptance from CIDCO for design and construction of steel bridge of eastern connectivity for Navi Mumbai International Airport. This is in joint venture, with Ashoka having 51% share of INR 339.9 crores.
Also, company has received letter of award for six laning of Aurangabad-Bihar Jharkhand Project, section of NH-2, in the state of Bihar, on EPC mode for a total of INR 520 crore. Additional on current project, company has received provisional completion certificate for NHAI projects in quarter. First one is six laning of Belgaum-Khanapur Section of NH-4A for a stretch of 44.15 kilometers, in addition to existing 16.345 kilometers, and also on four laning of NH-161 from Kandi to Ramsanpalle for 1.28 kilometers, in addition to the stretch of 37.92 kilometers. Regarding the HAM projects of NHAI, that is eighth lane from Vadodara-Kim Expressway, company has received completion certificate in April 2024.
The respective SPV has been receiving annuity amount of 11.25 kilometers from NHAI. On asset monetization, Ashoka Buildcon Limited has acquired 50% fully paid shares from GVR Infra Projects, held in GVR Ashoka Chennai ORR Limited, a subsidiary of company subsequently. Chennai ORR Limited now has become wholly owned subsidiary of the company, post-acquisition of these shares. The company and its subsidiary, Ashoka Construction Limited, are making progress toward divestment of this entire stake in specific subsidiaries that are diverted by NHAI for the construction and operation of the roads projects on the HAM basis. Considering the high likelihood that the sale will be finalized within the following 12 months, these completed project assets and liabilities continue to be classified as assets held for sale. Now coming to the order book.
As on 31 March 2024, our balance order book stands at INR 11,697 crores. The breakup of order is: the roads and railway projects are INR 6,214 crores, which is 53% of the total order book. Among the road projects, HAM projects are to the tune of INR 911 crores, and EPC road projects are INR 4,426 crores, and railway is around INR 877 crores. Power T&D is to the tune of INR 4,796 crores, which is approximately 41% of the total order book. The total EPC building segment is INR 687 crores, which is 6% of the order book.
Here, I would like to reiterate that our primary focus remains on maintaining a sustainable EPC business in segments encompassing highways, railways, power transmission and distribution, as well as buildings. This is all from my side. I'll now request Mr. Paresh Mehta to present the financial performance. Thank you.
Hello. Yeah, can you hear me?
Yes, sir. We hear you.
Yeah. Thank you, thank you, thank you, sir. Good afternoon to everyone and all. Results and investors presentations and the press release have been uploaded on the stock exchange and the company website. I'm sure you must have had time to go through it. I present the financial results of the quarter and the full year ended 31 March 2024. The total income for Q4 FY 2024 stood at INR 2,533 crores, as compared to INR 2,068 crores in the corresponding quarter last year, registering a growth of 22%. EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR 219 crores, with EBITDA margin of 8.6%.
The reported profit before tax, excluding exceptional gains, stood at INR 126 crores and PAT, including exceptional gains, at INR 269 crores. Our revenue contribution for each segment for FY 2024 is as follows: Road EPC contributed 53%, Power EPC contributed 29%, Railway stood at 12%, and other segments like building EPC and others contributed 6%. Now, for FY 2024, the total income stood at INR 7,841 crores as compared to INR 6,478 crores in the corresponding period last year, registering a growth of 21%. EBITDA for the period stood at INR 691 crores with an EBITDA margin of 8.8%. The reported PBT, excluding exceptional gains, stood at INR 358 crores and PAT, including exceptional gains, at INR 443 crores.
Exceptional gains in FY 2024 is on account of gain on sale of UEPL, that is, Unison Enviro Private Limited, our CGD business. And it, in FY 2023, is on account of reversal of impairment of its investments, loans, and its, in its subsidiaries, including Ashoka Concessions Limited, and impairment of investment loans in subsidiaries including Ashoka Concessions Limited. Our revenue contribution for each segment for FY 2024 is as follows: Road EPC contributed 60%, Power EPC contributed 25%, Railways stood at 10%, and other segments like building and other contributed to 6%. Our standalone debt to equity ratio stood at 0.38x as of 31 March 2024.
Coming to the consolidated results, the total income for Q4 FY 2024 grew by 27% year on year to INR 3,138 crores as compared to INR 2,478 crores in Q3 FY 2023. EBITDA stood at INR 721 crores for Q4 FY 2024, with a margin of 23%. Reported profit after tax stood at INR 254 crores in Q4 FY 2024. For FY 2024, full year, the total income stood at INR 10,005 crores as compared to INR 8,235 crores in the corresponding period last year, raising, for the last year, registering a growth of 21%. EBITDA for the period stood at INR 2,458 crores, with an EBITDA margin of 24.6%.
The reported PBT, excluding exceptional gains, stood at INR 763 crores and PAT at INR 521 crores. Total consolidated debt as on 31 March 2024 stood at 7,139 crores. The standalone debt is at 1,143 crores and comprises of 123 crores of equipment term loan and INR 1,020 crores of working capital loan. Towards our BOT business, during Q4 FY 2024, it recorded a gross total collection of INR 329 crores as against INR 300 crores in Q4 FY 2023, recording a growth of 9.8%. Whereas in FY 2024, it recorded a gross total collection of 1,247 crores as against 1,117 crores in FY 2023, recording a growth of 11.7%.
To bring significant impacts in the consolidated results of the company, we have reclassified our BOT assets, which were till 23, held as asset held for sale to investment after taking the effects of the sale purchase agreement are yet to be signed, and other compliances yet to be pending and expectation of the time completed for the projects. We continue to pursue the process of disposal of the stakes in all the subsidiaries, including the HAM projects. With this, we now open the floor for the question and answer. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press Star and 1 on their touchtone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press Star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Again, if you have any questions, please press Star and 1. The first question is from the line of Gaurika Nair from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead.
Hi, could you give me your order intake for FY 2024?
So for FY 24, in order to order intake-
Sorry to interrupt, sir. You're sounding a bit distant.
Yeah. The total order for FY 2024 intake was INR 1,953 crore.
Okay. And what will be your future guidance on it, and the revenue that will be coming in for FY 2025?
See, for 25 year, we're targeting around INR 12,000 crore-INR 15,000 crore of order book.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay, fine. Also, could you repeat your bit on asset monetization, since your voice cracked?
So, just to summarize,
Yeah.
We have 11 HAM projects, 6 BOT projects, and one annuity projects, which are to be monetized. For the 11 HAM projects and for the 5 BOT projects, we are in the process of finalizing the share purchase agreement with the potential investors, and we are very very close to signing of the SPA in the near future. For the-
Okay.
For the one BOT project that is Jaora-Nayagaon and Chennai ORR. In Chennai ORR, we have already acquired stakes of GVR Infra, our partner in the project. So now we will be in a better position to negotiate with the existing offer, which we had received, as well as with new investors to sell the project in this coming year. And equally, we await permissions from MPRDC for transfer of 26%, and then we will be able to sell the Jaora-Nayagaon project too.
Okay. That is all on my side. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Participants, you may press Star and One to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Syam Garg from Ladderup Finance Limited. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity, sir, and congratulations on a good set of numbers. My first question is with respect to the, what is the peak debt of the CO and how we are planning to reduce it?
I didn't get. What was the question?
Mr. Garg, sorry to interrupt. You're sounding muffled. May we request to use handset in case if you're using the speaker mode, please?
Is it better now?
Slightly better, sir. Please go ahead.
My first question is with respect to what would be our peak debt for FY 25, and how are we planning to reduce it in the FY 25 or in coming years? Any guidance on that?
Yeah. So our debt at APL standalone, which is for working capital, would be almost in the same range based on the increased turnover, which we'll have for FY 2024/2025. We expect on monetization of assets, this debt could go down as and when the assets are monetized.
Can you specify any amount? Yeah, in a range.
So it will depend on the asset monetization. We have five utility assets and others. So, if you just make a thumb rule for what we would use the money, part of the money to reduce debt, we may use, we try to reduce the working capital debt to 50% of what we utilize today. Balance money for monetization will be used for various other applications.
Okay. Thank you, sir. That's it from my side.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Hello? Hello. Hello.
Yes, yes, yes.
Yeah, sir. So my first question is on the margins. So I think we had an earlier quarter highlighted a journey towards reaching high single-digit margin, potentially double-digit margin by the end of Q4 FY 2024, and we're still at just about 7%. So if you can give some more color on what went wrong in this quarter, why we were not able to achieve high single-digit margin and then journey towards the double-digit margin?
Yeah. I think so, our guidance in FY 2020 Q3 FY 2024 accounts was typically that the margins would go up in 2024/2025, post Q2. So these numbers would be in the similar range up to Q2, and then they will jump up based on the execution for the new contracts and the contracts which you already have, which are of better margins, and will pick up in H2 FY 2025.
But we barely had INR 2,000 crore of inflows in FY 2024, and so large part of revenues which will accrue in FY 2025 will accrue from the legacy book, because ordering is expected to pick up only from second half. So what gives you the confidence that the margins will improve? Because the projects one, newer projects one will still not have contribution to the revenues in the second half of next year. So first, if you can quantify what is your guidance, given we have a very lower number on book to bill. So almost INR 12,000 crore of order book and close to about INR 7,500 crore of revenues. How do you see the guidance for next year in terms of revenue growth? And within that, how do you think the... whether the margins can reach double digit Starting Q3 FY 2025?
Yeah. So, just to give a feel of the numbers which have panned out from execution. The major execution where the low margins were there have typically come to an end. So by Q1 FY 25, most of the projects will get over. The largest margin projects have just begun up, have taken off in last year, and they will contribute to major turnover in Q3, Q4. And that will result in an increase in the margins by at least 1.5% around initially. And then the new projects may contribute more. The new projects are yet to be won, which will contribute more.
On the order book, I, we have an order book backlog of INR 11,700 crore, which is, approximately, 1.4 times of, the book, which is, low as than our expectations, which is already explained due to low, bidding, in various sectors, especially post-January, in the, what, in the election phase. So we believe that, post, June, there should be a flurry of, biddings happening, and, we can ramp up our order book, during this next, Q2 and, further on.
... But then, this, why didn't we participate in the MSRDC tenders? It just opened, I think, couple of days back, so we were not present in even multimodal logistics, sorry, multimodal, packages and even on expressways, so we were not there. So any issue whether we were qualified or not qualified, and why didn't we participate in those tenders?
No, we have participated in MSRDC tenders, which have been bid in this month. So participated in 4 MSRDC tenders, which will be opened subsequently by June end or July.
No, sir. The earlier ones I'm talking about, the ones, 26 packages which got opened, and the 11 packages on MMC, so we had not participated. Any reason why such a large ordering we let it go without any participation? So are we qualified? Were we qualified? Was there any constraints on technical grounds we're not able to do it, or it's just that a call we took that we will not bid for these projects?
No, we had taken a call earlier that we'll not be bidding for state government projects. But lately we have revised that, and now we are bidding for that.
Okay. And just the guidance on margins, I think that was, that was my question which I had asked. Next year, FY 2025, how do you see as a full year? What kind of margins we are looking at for FY 2025 and FY 2026?
So FY 2025, we should be back around 9-9.5% of EBITDA margins. Slightly better than that. And then, again, in FY 2025-26, definitely should be in the range of 11-11.5%.
You, when you give this guidance, you include the other income also in this, right?
No, these are EBITDA.
Okay. Excluded. And just last question on monetization. So now we had a five... I mean, we had 2 projects, Jaora and Chennai ORR, where we have now Chennai, we have some movement. We bought out the partner. So these 2 projects, I think, they had maybe a deadline where this bids, I mean, this contract or this agreement was there to monetize. So has that deadline mutually extended or has it lapsed with the investor? That was my question on those 2 projects. And on the HAM, we have been talking also, I think last 2, 3 quarters, that it's going to happen, and somehow, for one reason or another, it has not happened. So where is it now stuck at?
I mean, well, I mean, last call you highlighted that all approvals are in place, so now what are you waiting for announcing these SPA? Because every call we see SPA is in the final stages of conclusion, but it's not happened. So can you give more realistic guidelines, where do you think, the SPAs will get signed?
Yes. So, we agree that we have been pursuing the SPA for the HAM and the BOT projects in the past three quarters. And, it has been a bit sticky on negotiating and closing, but now we are at the far end of most of the issues have been sorted out, and we are in the process of ironing out the total agreement post all commercial issues having been settled.
As far as the Chennai ORR and Jaora-Nayagaon project is concerned, their date of SPAs have lapsed some time back, and we will appropriate time once we get permission on Jaora-Nayagaon from our MPRDC, and for Chennai ORR, we will engage again with these parties for, because the, their, their offers were all dated a bit, so we need to renegotiate on the price basis.
But the exclusivity, exclusivity is gone, and, I mean, we may, the same investor may not, the NIIF may not be... I, I mean, he has every right not to proceed with this, because I think they are themselves selling out their portfolio to some other, their, their blocks, assets are on blocks, so.
Right. Right. But they are also in the churning mode, and definitely a project like Jaora-Nayagaon or Chennai ORR are good projects for them to buy. They are buying also, and they are selling also. So from that perspective, they continue to to do, if possible, the deal. It will all depend on us, both of us, to strike a proper price again to do the deal.
This HAM, whether in June that will get closed, or it will now move to the second quarter, like this, by September. What is more realistic timeline of closing and signing of SPAs for the HAM portfolio?
SPA should be signed before June.
Okay, sir.
By June.
Thank you. Okay, sir. Thank you. Those are my questions, and wish you the best. Thank you.
Right. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Prem Khurana from Anand Rathi Shares and Stock Brokers. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, sir. Thank you for taking my questions. So just to continue on asset monetization, so I mean, you briefly touched upon this thing in your opening remarks, wherein you spoke about the five BOT tolls, which you are, you are earlier supposed to sell to KKR. So when I look at the notes to accounts that you've given in your release today, it seems as if, I mean, we had a prospective buyer in place, and you had already offered the, the buyer exclusivity, and which expired on 31 March 2024. So was it, I mean, does it mean that you were able to start the process again, and you would be required to offer exclusivity to someone else now, and then the due diligence would start, and it could take some more time?
I was wondering, why did we reclassify? I mean, initially it was classified as assets held for sale. KKR's agreement got terminated in the month of May, so I mean... But we still continue to show these as held for sale, and now we reclassify it at this point in time, so.
Yeah. Yeah. So, so, on the beauty assets, we had an SPA which got terminated, as you said rightly. Post that, we engaged with another potential investors, with whom we are already negotiating for closing an SPA. And, the exclusivity period expired, no doubt, but we continue to engage between ourselves and, we expect to close the SPA at earliest. Keeping in mind the time taken for NOCs, permissions, and other assessment as of thirty-first March 2024, and based on the guidance, as per Ind AS 105, we classified it as a, we changed the classification from asset held for sale to investments.
As soon as we see clear visibility of the transaction happening, once we sign the SPA and certain CPs to the transition like consents from lenders and authority are visible, we'll reclassify. But classification is definitely an accounting aspect of the thing. As in the business perspective, we are continuing to seriously engage with the potential buyer to sell the assets.
Sure. So but, I mean, would you be able to, kind of, share why is it taking so long? Because, I mean, we would have done all this exercise even when we were kind of trying to sell it to KKR, so the lenders would have been on board. You would have somehow made sure that I mean, you get to have NOCs from NHAI. At least, I mean, in principle, they would have given you some go ahead. I mean, there was only, I think, Dankuni-Kharagpur wherein we were waiting for that 2-year clause. So why, why... I mean, given the fact that we've dealt with these things long back, why is it taking so long now? I mean, the CPs that you need to comply are the same CPs, right?
That you would have kind of dealt with when you were dealing with KKR.
Correct. So, this investor is a different investor, one. Definitely, when we go back to NHAI, though I do agree that in principle, clearance was received for three assets then out of five, and two are almost on the process of getting done. But there are certain conditions which where it could got delayed, which now is out of issue. But the whatever time for in-principle clearance also will take some time. We will target ourselves to get the deal as soon as possible, maybe by December 2024. But based on the past experience and on discussions with auditors, we decided to classify as investments. We will revisit the clause at the proper time again to reclassify.
Reclassification will not change the intention of the company to sell the assets, yeah, as early.
Sure. And would you be able to comment on the valuation? I mean, fair to assume, given the fact that the traffic numbers have been pretty decent in the recent past, the valuation would have firmed up for these five, as well as, I mean, whenever you negotiate with, let's say, either NIIF or some other player for the Jaora-Nayagaon and Chennai, there, I mean, how do you see the valuation to be now?
Yes, so all the BOT projects, we definitely see an uptick in the valuation. As soon as we sign the SPA, definitely we'll be able to disclose all that, which would be definitely a better one than what was previous.
Sure. And so, I mean, just, I mean, bookkeeping sort of question. So, so, what, what's the revenue goal that we're targeting this year, given the, the sort of order backlog that we have and the fact that it, it is still some time before the orders would start coming? This is on standalone basis, and what sort of a revenue goal do we target, target for this year now?
So we expect to grow by around 15% for 2024, 2025 on the EPC.
Okay. So this is on a base of 7,700 that we've delivered. This is saying 15% more?
Right.
Okay. And sorry, I missed the inflow guidance. I mean, I think Satish gave that number, but somehow I missed the number. Would you be able to kind of share that number again, please?
Which number?
Inflow guidance, order inflow for FY 25.
We are targeting around INR 12,000 crore-INR 15,000 crore of inflow.
Sure.
There'll be good aggressive orders coming from state as well as center post-elections.
Sure. But I think last time, I mean, we spoke, I mean, you seemed to be a little skeptical, I mean, in terms of whether you'll, we'll get to have the awarding kind of pickup immediately after election, which is where I think your guidance seemed as though you're building in some sort of caution. And now, the guidance seem to be very, very, optimistic. So has, has anything changed somewhere, which is what makes you confident that you'll be able to have this INR 12,000 crore-INR 13,000 crore of number? Or is it only because now you've also started looking at, the state orders, which is what is giving you confidence that if not NHAI, you could have orders from state?
Now, we've become an all-round EPC player, like roads, railways, power, buildings, water. So all segments are open. So our building pipeline is also bigger than what it used to be earlier.
Sure. And, just two more, just two more with your permission, please. So one is, how much is the pending equity infusion for hybrids? And second would be, so the Chennai stake that we acquired, the payment was made during the quarter, right? Entire INR 185 crore.
Yes, yes. The payment for Chennai order was, Chennai order, Chennai Outer Ring Road project was made, before March end, so it is already coming in the books as a investment. As far as, balance equity, commitment for our, HAM projects is approximately INR 153 crores.
This would be included in this year, I think?
Yeah, for 2024, 2025, it's in.
Sure, sir. Thank you, and all the very best for the future.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mrunal Shah from Axanoun Investment Management. Please go ahead.
... Hello.
Yes, sir.
Yeah. So my question was, how much percentage of the cost is attributed, attributable to bitumen in total cost of the road, an approximate range?
I could not follow. Could you be clear?
My question was, how much percentage of the cost is attributable to bitumen of the total cost of making a road, an approximate range?
20%-30%. 20%-30%, sir, depending upon the composition.
Okay. Usually, what are the payment terms for bitumen payment?
Yeah, I didn't follow the question. Yeah, please.
What are the usual payment terms for bitumen payment?
Bitumen is bought from refinery. Bitumen is particularly bought from refineries, so it's on cash against cash only.
Okay. And sir, what proportion of the, what proportion of asphalt road and concrete road for highways and express highways for which government tenders are being floated by the government? I wanted to know the, the bifurcation between bitumen roads and asphalt roads, for highways.
So there are no specific rules, you know, which highway will come on rigid pavement, like concrete pavement or bituminous pavement.
Generally, what is the-
If you see-
Okay.
Majority of the highway, 90% of them are bituminous roads.
Okay. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Deepak Poddar from Sapphire Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Am I audible, sir?
Yes.
Yeah. Thank you very much, sir, for this opportunity. Just first up, I just wanted to understand, have we, given this data, I mean, from this demonetization or, or, I mean, monetization of our 11 HAM projects and 6 BOT projects, so what sort of capital inflow or capital release that we expect from this?
As of now, we've not communicated anything to the exchanges. Once we are through with our definitive documents, we would be able to declare the same.
And this inflow, we expect to repay some debt as well, apart from you are using it in working capital and other application?
That is, I mean, working capital debt is the major debt which is other than the project debt.
Mm-hmm.
So otherwise, the project debt should go along with the projects to the new buyer. So most of the project debt will move out of the consols of the company.
Okay. And the standalone level, any sort of repayment that we expect, can we expect at the standalone level?
Yeah, depending on monetization, we would typically try to reduce by the working capital debt by 50%.
By 50% debt. So currently, which is about close to about INR 900,000 crore, right?
Correct, correct, correct.
That may reduce by INR 400 crore-INR 500 crore.
Correct, correct.
So how do we see the absolute interest cost? In the last year, I think in the standalone level, we were at about INR 230 crores, roundabout. So how do we see that interest cost in FY 2025?
There are two components to the interest cost. One is interest on our working capital loan and also interest on mobilization advance. We have mobilization advance of almost INR 800 crore, which also carries interest costs.
Mm-hmm.
The reduction will typically be in the working capital utilization decrease, which would be in the range of a cost of 10% for whatever decrease and for whatever period.
Okay. And, can you have the breakup, I mean, out of these INR 230 crore, what is the interest component from mobilization at advance?
So, yeah, I can give you that.
Yeah.
On our cash credit and working capital demand loans, which we have-
Mm-hmm.
That is approximately INR 45-50 crores. And on our mobilization advance is around INR 33 crore, sorry, sorry, my error. On mobilization advance is around INR 70 crores.
Mm-hmm.
Cash credit and WCDLs, it is approximately around another INR 70 crore, and balances other miscellaneous loans on equipment loan and other loans.
Okay. So, so ideally this mobilization advance and cash credit component of interest cost will not reduce, right? Only, only that INR 45 crore-INR 50 crore that is liable to reduce based on your repayment.
Loan, yeah, that would, reduce.
That is about INR 45-50 crores, right?
So that is approximately INR 65 crore.
65 crores.
Including WCDL, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, fair enough. Okay, that's very clear to me. Yeah. That's it from my end. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Paridhi Jagnani from Go India. Please go ahead.
Thank you for taking my question. Am I audible?
Yeah.
So, can you just give me your guidance? You've given the guidance for EBITDA and revenue. Can you just give me a guidance for PAT, please?
As far as PAT is concerned, it's all a mix of how the profits will pan out. Depending on the EBITDA margins, we should be in the range of 5%-6% for PAT.
... Also, sir, when we see the order book breakdown that you have, in FY 2023, you have CGD of INR 31 crore. You don't have that in FY 2024. Can you just give me clarity on it?
Yeah. CGD business was our, in-house captive, EPC business. Till we were owning the CGD business in the form of Unison Enviro Private Limited, which we sold off to Mahanagar Gas Limited, in last quarter, that is, Q4 2024. So now the asset being, asset having changed hands from us to MGL, the order book, we have completed whatever was there in our scope till then. Now it is the MGL will decide to, do whatever work that is there in that business. So we don't now do any CGD business as of now.
Also, sir, I missed out on the part that you gave when order intake for FY 23. Can you just repeat the number, please?
Yeah. So for FY 2023, the-
Sorry, FY 2024, sir.
Okay. Once again. 2024 inflow, we expect around INR 10,000 crore-INR 15,000 crore.
You said that for 25, right?
25. 24, we got only INR 2,000 crores.
Okay, sir. That's all from my side. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vaibhav Shah from JM Financial Limited. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Sir, you mentioned the pending equity at INR 150 odd crore to be increased in FY 2025, but if you look at the presentation for the HAM slide, over there it is mentioned that INR 1,200 crore is already invested, and total required is INR 1,097 crore. So it comes out around INR 85 crore incremental. So how does INR 150 crore number has been arrived?
1,097 is based on the. It is as per financial closure document. There are certain increase in project cost due to PIM, where equity has to be also put in by the SPV. So part comes from grant. There's no loan on that. So the equity component slightly increases.
So currently, now we require around INR 150-odd crore, so incremental around INR 60-70-odd crore.
Yeah. 150 odd total. Yeah.
Okay. Sir, secondly, the gain which you booked in Q4 of INR 217 crore, so what would be the tax component out of that?
Approximately INR 40 crore.
Okay. And, sir, what would be our CapEx guidance for FY 25?
CapEx guidance would be approximately INR 100 crores, INR 110 crores, INR 100-INR 110 crores.
Okay. Sir, in FY 2024, what funding did we do for loss funding for Sambalpur, and what do we expect for FY 2025?
Sambalpur, we did not do much loss funding because it was refinanced in FY June 2023. So, now it is self-sustaining. It is taking care of its own cash flows.
Okay. And, sir, we target to monetize Chennai ORR and Jaora-Nayagaon within FY 25, or it will spill over to 26?
So for Chennai ORR, definitely it is possible. For Jaora-Nayagaon, it will just depend on how, as the moment we get clearance for MPRDC for our locked-in shares of 26%.
So, post the clearance, we will, we will, look for the buyer or the talks are already going on?
So we will always re-engage with the previous offer, but we'll, and then we'll see whether we need to get to another potential buyer.
Okay. Sir, lastly, what is the status of the water treatment order, the Mumbai one? And has the execution started?
Yeah, execution on this has started. Civil works have already started, and, electromechanical will start from the third quarter, Q3 of this year.
So what kind of revenue can we book from your order for FY 25 and 26?
Should be able to book around INR 400 crore.
Combined for 25, 20-mix?
INR 400 crore in 2024-25.
Okay. And, sir, outstanding book would be somewhere around INR 550-odd crore for that order?
This total order is INR 750 crore, so entire balance will be completing in this year.
Okay, fine. Okay. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vasudev from Nuvama. Please go ahead.
So, sir, I just have one question, which is on the bid pipeline side. So you said that our bid pipeline is now bigger than earlier, so, you know, will you be able to quantify it? And if you can give the split across various segments that you are planning to build.
So segment side, sir, road is the primary segment, road and bridges. Then power, distribution and transmission is our segment. Solar is one of the segment where we are now qualified to bid. Then buildings is there, railways is... We are looking at railways very aggressively. So these all five segments will be there. In addition to this, overseas also, we are participating in some of the countries.
Okay. So, sir, will we be able to quantify that, kind of bid pipeline that we are looking in these segments?
... No, it will be all mixed, you know, it will all depend upon the various projects which are coming up. Our bidding would be 50% of that focus will be on the road sector, and rest will depend upon as and when we get the opportunities. It's very difficult to quantify target inflow from each segment.
Okay. Okay, sure, sir, no problem. That's it from my side. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anant Mundra from MyTemple Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello. Good afternoon, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, our cash and bank balance has gone up considerably in March 2024, so can you give us, like, an idea why that has happened?
So, couple of reasons, actually. Of course, definitely there was a large receipts during March last week from various of our clients who had payables, and they processed before March 31. Second, also, there was some working capital debt which could have been reduced, but because of the RBI guidelines for utilization of working capital in the form of 60/40, 60% WCD and 40% in CC. So some WCD which has put could not be closed as of March 31, otherwise we would have reduced that working capital loan by using the cash. So it's... But the basic reason is inflow of cash from our clients in the last week of March.
Okay.
Last couple of days of March, rather.
Okay. Okay. And sir, on the balance sheet, we have a line item of non-current trade receivables. So just wanted to understand, why do we have these long-term trade receivables, and they've also, like, they've gone up by more than 2x in the last year. So can you explain why that has happened?
So this is actually a trade receivables which are outstanding for a couple of clients which are old, something like Chennai ORR. There is some receivables from the SPV. Now, as soon as we get some monetization done on at Chennai ORR level, that will get reduced. So that is a substantial amount in that INR 300-odd crore.
Okay, so it's only related to this Chennai ORR receivable?
Yeah, majorly related to Chennai ORR and some small for old contracts, which are 12 months and above. These are partly related to retention monies, which are yet to be received. Which are not due, but they'll be received over a period of time. So the default clarity will be 12 months or 24 months, depending on that monies will be released.
But the Chennai ORR is now a subsidiary, right? Like, as on thirty-first March, it is a 100% subsidiary, correct?
Correct. Correct.
That figure should not reflect in the consolidated balance sheet?
That will not reflect under consolidated. That's true.
I think it's still reflecting. The amount is pretty much the same, both in standalone and consolidated. Not sure if that's correct, but that's what I remember.
It will not be there, probably because it is assets held for sale. So it will be in the assets held for sale line item. So I'll come back to you-
Okay.
on a one-to-one basis on the breakup of this INR 300 crore.
Okay. All right. And sir, what is the, the last question is, what is the outstanding that we have from SBI Macquarie now? Outstanding that we have to pay to SBI Macquarie.
It is gone back to INR 1,526 crore, which was in 2019. So INR 1,526 crore is what they will expect to pay off. So that's what has been provided in their books, in the consolidated.
Okay, and that's the cap?
That's the cap, yeah.
Okay. That's it from me. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vaibhav Shah from JM Financial Limited. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the follow-up. Sir, we have taken approval for fundraise as well. So do we plan to raise some funds in near term or just we have taken approval right now?
So basically, we have taken an approval from an arbitrage purpose, and from realigning the working capital, as short-term and long-term requirement. So, that is the basic plan, like replacing certain WCDL with CPs. So, that is one approval, and second approval is for NCDs, for something like an 18-month NCD, 18-24 months NCD, which we intend to raise to realign the working capital maturity dates.
So basically, we want to just change the mix of the debt, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the amount will be-
We won't increase the debt.
Yeah, we don't want to increase the debt overall.
Sir, and if monetizations go through as a plan, then we expect it to reduce by around INR 500 odd crores in FY 2025, right?
Right. Right.
Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Akhilesh B, who is an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hello. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, in response to one of the earlier questions, you mentioned that earlier we were not participating in the MoRTH-MSRDC auction, and now we are participating. So what changed in our thinking? Why did we not participate earlier on, you know? Why are we finding it attractive now? Just to understand the thinking of them.
Nothing specific has changed, but we have seen aggression at NHAI and participation with NHAI and qualification with NHAI. So our real focus was to remain national player, participating in NHAI and MoRTH. So now, since NHAI is becoming more and more, aggression is seen in the NHAI bidding, so we are looking at the states.
Sir, this money which we have received for UEPL, will part of that go to reduce this SBI Macquarie liability or, if we are going to use it for our own working capital, et cetera?
Yeah, it has been used for it. So basically, that money was partly, most of it was used for acquiring Chennai ORR stakes.
Okay. Okay. All right, sir. That's perfect. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vikram Vilas Suryavanshi for closing comments.
We thank the management of Ashoka Buildcon for giving us an opportunity to host the call and taking time for interaction with the stakeholders. Any closing comments, sir, from your side?
We thank everybody for joining this call, and we are open for any Q&A on a one-to-one basis through my contacts already given, as well as through Sagar, our IR managers. Thank you.
Got it. Thank you. Thank you all for being on the call.
Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of PhillipCapital (India) Private Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.