Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and a very warm welcome to the Ashoka Buildcon discussion on Q1 FY22 results and future outlook call hosted by Centrum Broking Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ashish Shah from Centrum Broking. Thank you, and over to you, Ashish.
Yeah. Thank you, Ali. A very good afternoon to everyone. On behalf of Centrum Broking, I welcome you all to the Ashoka Buildcon's Q1 FY22 results, earnings call. We have from the management, Mr. Satish Parakh, Managing Director. We have Mr. Paresh Mehta, the Chief Financial Officer of the company, and we also have representatives from the, Stellar Investor Relations. Over to you, sir, for your opening remarks. Thank you.
Thank you, Ashish. Good afternoon, everyone. We'd like to extend a warm welcome to everyone on our earnings call for the quarter ending June 30, 2021. I hope you all and your dear ones are safe and healthy. Along with me, I have Mr. Paresh Mehta, our Chief Financial Officer, on the call. Before I take you through the official performance highlights, I would like to brief you on the key industry updates. Last fiscal year, the road infrastructure industry defied COVID-19 by delivering a stellar performance on the back of robust project awarding and record construction, with a relaxation in lockdown in the second half. The second wave of COVID-19 was marginally slowed the growth momentum during the quarter. Awarding activity remained muted in Q1 FY22, particularly from April to May, primarily due to the increase of COVID-19 cases.
However, with NHAI's robust order pipeline and a steady stream of funds from budgetary outlays, borrowings, and the TOT route, the ordering activity to remain buoyant for FY 2022. In terms of construction, the pace of highway construction was slowed amid rising COVID-19 cases. In April-June, highway construction totaled 2,824 km, up 25% from corresponding last year. Despite the constraint posed by COVID-19, the pace of construction during the quarter was faster than Q1 FY 2020. During April-June 2021-2022, the highway construction rate was 25.37 km per day, compared to 23.29 km per day in April-June 2019-2020. A number of industry-friendly measures, including better cash flow to the contractors, kept the execution momentum going during the quarter.
We believe with an improved COVID-19 situation and accelerated vaccination drive, enhanced ordering activity, FY 2022 execution target of 40 km per day set by the government can be achieved. On the toll collection front, toll collection began to improve in second half of FY 2021. As economic activity began to recover, the second wave of COVID-19-led restrictions affected the toll collection in month of April and May. As the number of COVID instances decreases and lockdown is relaxed, we are seeing a modest improvement in the toll collection from the second week of June. The traffic is expected to improve further going forward due to declining COVID-19 instances, optimistic GDP growth, record high FDI, and positive growth in core sector indicators. In 2022, we anticipate modest double-digit growth in toll collection relative to the lower base of FY 2021. Now, coming to the company's performance.
The second wave of COVID-19 had a less severe impact on business operations than the first wave. April and May saw a modest slowdown in execution momentum, but as the overall general situation improved, execution began to pick up. At present, we are operating at 100% efficiency level. The execution of all eight HAM projects is progressing well. In terms of equity investment, the total equity requirement of all 10 HAM projects, including PIM, is INR 1,317 crores, of which we have already invested INR 814 crores as of June 2021. Our incremental equity requirements of FY 2022 and FY 2023 are INR 184 crores and INR 141 crores, respectively. Now, coming to the order book.
In the month of July, we won projects worth INR 1,031 crore, which includes an order of IRCON International Limited of INR 431 crore for supply, erection, testing, and commissioning of electromechanical system. And also an order worth INR 600 crore from Zodiac Healotronics Private Limited, for construction of 600-bed super specialty hospital, medical college, and residential quarters. With this, the total inflow of fiscal 2022 stands at INR 2,980 crore. The company's total order book as on 30 June 2021, stand at INR 9,472 crore. The order book excludes Zodiac Healotronics and IRCON International, worth INR 1,031 crore, including this order book stands at INR 10,503 crore. The breakup of this order book is as of 30th June 2021.
Road project comprise around INR 6,133 crore, which is 65% of our total order book. Among the road projects, HAM projects are worth INR 3,135 crore and EPC are INR 2,998 crore. Power, T&D and others comprise of INR 1,317 crore, which is 14% of total order book. EPC building segment comprises of INR 1,235 crore, which is 13% of total order book, and railway stand at INR 722 crore, which is 8% of order book, and EPC work from CGD business comprises of INR 65 crore. With this, I hand over the call to Paresh Mehta for financial results Q4 FY 2021.
Thank you, sir. Good afternoon, everyone. The result presentation and the press release for the quarter have been uploaded on the stock exchanges and on the company's website. I believe you all may have gone through the same. Now, I would request the financial results for the quarter ended 30th June 2021. Starting with the consolidated results, the total account income for Q1 FY 2022 grew by 65% year-on-year to INR 1,310 crores, as compared to INR 780 crores in the Q1 FY 2021. EBITDA stood at INR 424 crores in Q1 FY 2022, with a margin of 32.3%. PAT is at INR 80 crores in Q1 FY 2022. PAT margin is 6.1%.
Coming to the standalone numbers, the total income for Q1 FY 2022 stands at INR 1,059 crore as compared to INR 621 crore in corresponding quarter last fiscal, registering a growth of 71%. EBITDA for the quarter was at INR 167 crore, with EBITDA margin of 15.8%. The company reported after PAT, profit after tax of INR 101 crore in Q1 FY 2022, with a margin of 9.6%. During Q1 FY 2022, BOT division recorded a total collection of INR 208 crore as against INR 132 crore in Q1 FY 2021 and INR 262 crore in Q4 FY 2021.
Total consolidated debt as on 30th June 2021 stood at INR 6,241 crore, of which project debt is INR 4,571 crore. The standalone debt is at INR 526 crore, which comprises of INR 318 crore of equipment loans and INR 388 crore of working capital loans. During quarter, we have made the payment towards redemption of INR 150 crore of NCD, with interest payment of INR 18.2 crore. Further to this, ACL has issued new NCDs amounting to INR 250 crore post 30th June 2021. With this, we now open the floor for question answers. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question- and- answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the attached phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Vibhor Singhal from Phillip Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good evening, good morning, sir. Thanks for taking my question, and congrats on a great performance yet again. Given that we have clocked a very strong performance in this quarter, would you like to give some guidance for this year? As to what is the kind of top line that we are looking in this year and with what margin?
We expect to close the year by at least 25% above last year's turnover, with general EBITDA margins between of 10.5%-13% without other incomes, and to the tune of approximately 15-15.5% with including other incomes. So that's the target which we keep ourselves for.
Okay. So, sir, 25% kind of growth, so we are looking to cross, let's say, INR 4,700 crore of top line for the full year?
Exactly.
Sure, sir. Sir, my second question is on the debt front. So the standalone debt has risen in this quarter. If I am understanding correctly, is it because we have borrowed to repay the NCD in this quarter, and which that would probably be replenished in Q2, as you said, that we replace with another NCD?
That's the reason, because on the year end, we have used our cash credit to pay off the NCD. And immediately, after in the first week of July, the NCD, which ACL raised of INR 250 crore, was returned back to Masala Bond. So your assumption is right that NCD, the standalone debt as on year end, as in quarter end, is obviously higher only for that date.
Okay. So, at the end of Q2, we can expect it to again fall by, let's say, around INR 150 crore-INR 200 crore?
It should fall back. Then, of course, execution level also is there. If the execution is better or if it will accordingly change marginally.
... Sure, sir, definitely. And then how is the payment cycle looking at in terms of payment from various government bodies, NHAI or the other state government projects? Specifically our power distribution projects that we have in the state of Jharkhand and basically Gujarat, and Gujarat, of course, also. So what is the payment status from these projects? Are they delayed, on time? If you could give some color.
As far as power projects are concerned, we have definitely improved our collections during this quarter. But Bihar, we have received certain old dues, which are there on AGF Power. We think, which is in Jharkhand, for the payments. We expect that they should be coming in by this quarter end, September end. Substantial payment should come on that account also. There's some allocation of funds for these states to be happening. Jharkhand is definitely running through a tight phase, but I think so within a quarter time, they should also get to pay.
How is that the payment cycle from NHAI and other state governments is on time?
That is quite smooth. That is quite smooth. NHAI is really prompt in making payment. They have improved their circular of paying-
Sorry, your voice is...
Yeah. Can you hear me now?
Yeah, sorry. Actually, your voice was breaking. I'm sorry to say that.
Okay. Yeah. So, with the extension of the monthly payment scheme by NHAI, definitely NHAI is keeping the pace of execution with their payment schedule in time, so there is no worries on it, in NHAI account.
Sure, sir. So lastly, if you could just quantify what is the receivable from Bihar and Jharkhand state government, state governments for the past projects as of now?
See, approximately, Bihar would be to the tune of around INR 98 crore and-
Okay.
Uttar Pradesh would be around INR 93 crore, and Jharkhand around INR 36 crore.
So, Jharkhand is sorry, how much?
INR 36 crores.
36?
Sorry, INR 136 crore.
Jharkhand, okay.
One put it there. The old outstanding is INR 30 crore. That's what I was, trying to say.
Sure.
So if you-
Update us.
Again, in perspective, from Bihar, around INR 198 crores, from Jharkhand, INR 136 crores, and from Uttar Pradesh, INR 250 crores. The first numbers which I said were non-current, that is more than six months old, which are, which are coming. Other payments of in routine course are coming in time. Current liabilities or debtors are in time, not a problem.
Sure, sir. Great, sir. Thank you so much for taking my questions, and wish you all the best.
Thank you. Before we take the next question, we would like to remind participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Seetharaman from Spark Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir. Sir, can you give us an idea about the order inflow for the rest of the year that you foresee? Or the overall FY 2022 and FY 2023 you foresee, you know, across the sector.
See, as of now, we have bagged around INR 3,000 crore, and another INR 4,000 crore is our target for this year, which includes highways and railways and building vertical, which we have now started.
Okay. So, INR 4,000 crore for the rest of the year?
Yeah.
Okay. On the margin side, do you expect the margin to dip, considering that since you are going to take the building contracts, generally, the EBITDA margin in those contracts lower compared to the road contracts. So overall, do you expect the margins to dip?
Overall, margins will remain same. Whether it is building, roads, railways, or... Margins almost will remain same. EBITDA may change, but net margins are going to be same because there is no CapEx or very less CapEx with new buildings.
Okay. What is the CapEx that you expect for FY22 and 23?
Not much of CapEx.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, you can speak.
Actually, this year we are not expecting CapEx more than INR 35, 30-odd crores as our plan. But based on new projects which will be coming in, we may decide to do CapEx, but then that will overflow into the 2023 year, 2022, 2023 requirement of it.
Okay, okay. And what did you mention the FY 2022 and 2023 equity, please? The equity investment, you just missed that.
That, that was INR 184 crore for 2022.
It's not clear actually. It just got cut.
184. 184.
INR 184 crore, okay, for FY 2022.
2022-2023, INR 1.1 crore.
Again, it's 184 and?
141 .
184 and 141. Thank you. Thank you, sir.
Yeah. This is the total requirement for the current projects and the projects.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you. A reminder to the participants, anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one at this time. The next question is from the line of Ankita Shah from Elara Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you. Sir, I wanted to understand your strategy on diversification. You know, what is the ideal mix of business segments that you are looking at, and what would be the key focus area going forward?
Yeah. Yes, the key focus area will always remain highways and railways. So 70% of our order book, 70%-75% will be highways and railways, and we are becoming a full range EPC players in buildings, power and other segments. So that would compromise around 30%.
Okay. Within buildings, what kind of building projects are-
These are basically EPC contracts. It could be residential, it could be warehousing, it could be hospitals. This all basically we had been doing two decades back, which we have restarted now, so there is huge opportunity, opportunity in this segment also.
Okay. So, in the balance, INR 4,000 crore of inflow target that you're looking at, you're expecting, you know, what is the kind of pipeline you expect?
Around INR 3,000 crore we expect from railways and highways, and around INR 1,000 crore-INR 1,500 crore in other building works.
Okay. Got it. And, sir, on margins for the quarter, would you like to so highlight on what were the key issues that led to a drop in margins in this quarter?
So-
Because of the increase in raw material prices, or is there something else also that has impacted?
No. If you see the past few quarters where the margins have looked robust, these were on, mainly on account of, projects coming to an end and certain contingencies getting released from the budget and contributing to the higher margins. The margins today, which we have and which we expect for the coming quarters, would be in the range of 12%-12.5%, 12%-12.5%, which we believe is the standard margin guidance, which we have been always giving. Unless there is a event like a project closure and contingencies or a bonus being accounted for, I think the margin continues to remain at 12%-12.5%.
Okay. Got it. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jiten Rushi from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for taking my question and congratulations on good set of numbers. Sir, my question is on revenue breakups. Can you give us the revenue breakup between roads, and EPC, railways, power, CGD for the quarter and comparable YoY?
The road execution was INR 816 crores against INR 475 crores last year.
Mm-hmm.
The power execution was INR 38 crore against INR 34 crore last year.
Mm-hmm.
Railway was INR 98 crore against INR 36 crore last year.
Mm-hmm.
Then maybe miscellaneous works are there, approximately INR 20 crore. These are the major breakup of-
CGD is included in this INR 20 crore, basically?
Yes, CGD is a small number, approximately INR 6 crore in this quarter, compared to INR 2 crore in last year.
Okay. And sir, on the balance sheet numbers, if you can help me with debtors, creditors, retention, unbilled and mobilization advances.
So, as I said, total debtors for certain states, which we had explained, but-
Mm-hmm.
Coming to the total debtor position, would be around INR 1,312 crore, against which there is an advance of INR 381 crore. And accordingly, the total payment position of debtors, INR 1,312 crore and INR 381 crore.
381 is what? Mobilization-
Advance. Advances.
Okay. What would be the creditors, unbilled revenue, retention and mobilization advances?
Creditors usually would be around INR 2,650 crores.
INR 650 crore, okay.
Yeah, and the retention, which is part of the total debtors, is around INR 307 crore.
Okay, so in INR 1,312 crores, 307 is included. Right, sir?
Right, right. Creditors currently can help you later on.
Mobilization advance is outstanding?
As I said, that is approximately 381, total advance.
INR 381 crore.
Total.
Okay, got it. Sorry. Yeah, my bad. Sorry. Okay. And sir, on the project front, so what about the land status at the Tumakuru Project 3 and 4 ? And as last time we were saying that there were some advanced stages of land acquisition. So what is the status now, and when can we expect the appointed date for these projects?
Yeah. So, Tumakuru 3 is around 94% available.
Okay.
We also done financial closure for Tumkur 3. So-
Mm.
These works have already started.
Okay. So we should receive this-
This infant is done.
65%, okay.
Around 65%, and we expect another two months, it should cross 80%.
So basically, sir, what was the rate of interest for financial closure in three, and which bank and when do we expect the appointed date, sir?
Punjab National Bank is the financier for both these projects. I mean, in the sense-
Okay.
The SP for,
Sure. Mm-hmm.
TS 3 is already done, and TS 4-
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
- is in process. Unless land is available, bankers will not issue this,
Financial.
As soon as it is done, it will be done.
Mm-hmm.
Secondly, approximately, the range of 9% is the rate of interest at which we have closed the... We are closing the accounts.
Okay. Sir, so basically, appointed, we will receive this week only. We should receive this week for the Tumakuru Shivamogga Package 3.
Right.
Sir, on the other projects like NTPC solar project, what is the status, whether the work has started and the recently one project in Maldives, when do we expect the work to start? And so like obviously the quarter has been good in terms of awarding active inflows. So when can we expect these projects to contribute to the revenue and the NTPC solar projects, sir?
Yeah. So NTPC solar project has started now. Land has been acquired and part of it has been handed over. Balance part would be handed over, and then the project would begin. So this actually included purchasing land and handing over to NTPC. So that part is getting done, and it will get started in end of Q2 or start of Q3. Actual physical activities will start on the ground. As far as Maldives is concerned, Q3 is what we expect to start, because it has to be, the process has to be cleared by Exim Bank, and then once that is done, then the project starts.
Okay. So sir, in Maldives, we'll get the advance, any mobilization advance also?
Yeah, we have mobilization advance clauses in Maldives project.
Okay.
20% advance, yeah.
Okay, 20. But these are interest-bearing, sir?
These are not interest-bearing.
Non-interest bearing. Okay.
No interest.
Okay. Sir, I have more question. I'll come back and tell you. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. Before we take the next question, we would like to remind participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. So my, I joined the call a little late, so just wanted to know about the monetization update for the portfolio, so if you can just help us?
Yes. So, just to give a clarification, I mean, the, as far as the monetization process is concerned, it is quite seriously being pursued. On all the assets under the ACL portfolio, that is the 10 HAM assets, five BOT assets and one annuity asset. Investors are doing the diligence, and they are almost on the verge of completing the diligence process. We will immediately go into the share purchase agreement drafting process. So this all process is going on with an intention to give a exit to SBI Macquarie, preferably in this financial year.
So this is much more like end of like because of COVID, it hasn't got delayed by like towards the end of the financial year and the timing of the SPA?
So definitely, there is impact of COVID because the sharing of information and data collection becomes slightly difficult when the second wave also came in this April, May. But both the investor and the investee are seriously working on getting the process over.
And on just on the GST part, on the HAM side, so now that is again a bone of contention. Still the clarity is awaited. So how are the investors perceiving that when they are evaluating the valuation of the HAM projects?
You are very right, and these are some of the reasons which, you know, kind of delay the process of evaluation and SPA drafting. And we are trying to sort that out in such a way that the investor is, because he's giving a value today, so he's made neutral on that account. So, we are prepared, we are also pursuing this with NHAI on how they are going to actually take steps to ensure that the GST collection is fair for all the projects which have been bid in the past.
So, when is the notification expected, sir, from NHAI on this clarity and notification with regards to the-
Soon enough, because they had promised a couple of weeks back that they should coming, coming out soon enough. So I think so within a week's time or 10 days' time, I think so they should come out with the clarity, how they're going to treat the treatment, treat the application of GST on HAM or either annuity, full annuity projects.
Just on, so just to refresh the memory, so last time, ma'am, when we have been in budget, we will also be looking at exiting the, whenever this monetization happens, we will also look at monetizing our stake. That thought process continues, right?
Yeah. So it will, it will definitely depend on how the investor is looking at. As we had already communicated in the past, investors are typically looking out for 100% acquisition of SPVs. So end of the day, probably we'll also get into the same process of monetizing.
Including BOT and HAM, both, so looking to completely-
Yeah, the whole portfolio. As I said, when the investors are looking at the whole portfolio, BOT and HAM and annuity.
Could be this, so this could be with multiple platforms or multiple investors, like some people will pick and choose-
It could be. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it could be.
Okay. Just, on the guidance part, so how much of the EPC revenue you're looking to break, book in FY 22 now?
Could not follow your question, sir.
For FY 2022, what kind of growth you are looking on the EPC, revenue this year?
On the EPC business, we are targeting a growth of at least 25% this year. Because we've seen that pandemic typically has a lesser impact. The first, the second wave was not so much of an impact. I believe, and we believe that the third wave also will not be having so much impact. So I think we'll achieve this kind of a target based on the order book also available with us now.
Okay. Just last thing, sir, what is the acceptances sitting on your book right now?
Sorry?
So I was just wanting to know how much the total interest-bearing debt, so the debt number you have given in the presentation. So you spoke about the mobilization advance. Concerning besides that, how much is the expenses which are sitting on our books?
You want the rate? Because interest debited for the standalone debt is around INR 1,600,000 crore. So you're looking at-
I want the total interest-bearing liabilities on the books, so including Mobilization Advance, debt and the acceptances.
Approximately 6,500. So this is INR 6,240 crores, which is the debt on the books and mobilization advance of approximately INR 200 odd crores on projects like Bundelkhand and NTPC.
But creditor support and all, so that including that, I was asking more on the standalone side. So how much is the acceptances which is there besides the Mobilization Advance and working capital and-
So exactly, it's around INR 225 crore on Mobilization Advance and standalone debt of around INR 500 odd crore.
Okay. So no acceptances are there on the books?
No other debts. So another debt which at ACL, which we have recently taken after first July, is INR 250 crore of NCD, which will also carry a carry cost.
Okay, sir. Thank you that confirmation.
Thank you. A reminder to the participants, anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one. The next question is from the line of Seetharaman from Spark Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello. Thank you. Sir, can you give us the O&M expenses for the HAM projects on a yearly basis?
Probably you can take it separate, because each project will have a different kind of a structure, because some are rigid payment, some are asphalt payment. So probably you can take it offline. We can give you data on each project, what is the O&M expense.
Okay, okay.
Yeah.
What is the reason for refocusing on building contracts?
Hello? Yeah, there is a huge opportunity in this segment, and we understand EPC. We basically are EPC player. So wherever EPC opportunity is there, definitely we are going to buy.
Okay. Okay. Sure. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Participants who ask a question, please press star and one. The next question is from the line of Parvez Qazi from Edelweiss Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good afternoon, sir. Congratulations for a great set of numbers. So two questions from my side. One, what was the standalone level cash and what was the equity that we included in this quarter? The second, what is the kind of competitive intensity that we are seeing across segments like the roads, power, building, railway, et cetera?
So the standalone cash is approximately a small amount, INR 8 crore only. This is one. Second question, could you repeat?
What was the equity that we included in this quarter?
In this quarter, we issue, what you call, issued approximately INR 11 crore for Q1.
Sure. And the competitive intensity across them?
Competitive intensity continues to be there. There are large number of players coming in for BOT as well as EPC cash counterparts. But it is comparatively less in the HAM, say, projects, but the intensity is there.
And sir, lastly, what is the land status on the EPC project that we have won, the Kharar-Ludhiana corridor?
Yeah. So Kharar 1 already, 3G is at advanced stage, and maybe by end of Q2, 100% 3H will be done.
Yes. Thanks. That's it from my side.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anupam Gupta from IIFL. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity, sir. Just a couple of questions. Firstly, for the BOT portfolio, what sort of support will we need to give in this year? Also, because first quarter was weak in terms of toll collection.
Other than the Sambalpur project, which requires a bit of support, the projects are managing on their own. In spite of a bit of decline in the traffic, they will be able to serve the debt and its own expenses.
So Sambalpur, how much would support will,
Around INR 40 crore. Around INR 40 crore.
INR 40 crore, as loans given, right?
Yes.
Okay. Secondly, in the order book, apart from the two Tumakuru-Shivamogga packages and NTPC Maldives and the Kharar project, which are yet to start, any other project which is slow-moving or yet to start?
G-RIDE, around INR 300 crore, is yet to start.
Okay.
Which will start, now.
Yeah. Okay. And every other project is running on, running largely on track?
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Okay. Okay. Yeah, that's all from my side, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the follow-up. My question is on equity investment. If you can just break it up in ACL, how much is our equity and SBI Macquarie equity and also debt, and in HAM portfolio, what is the equity and debt as of the first quarter?
So, in ACL, our total equity is including, that is, basically in the form of CCD is to the tune of INR 1,900 odd crores. Including the debt in ACL is approximately INR 1,000 odd crores from basically from ABL, INR 1,100 crores. This is after liquidating NCD of INR 150 crores as of June . These numbers are as of June .
So this 1,900, so about INR 800 crore is SPV annuity. So 1,100 is about INR 800 crore is about SPV annuity. And what is the debt in this portfolio?
As I said, INR 1,100 crore.
Bank debt.
Debt, debt by ACL.
No, no, I'm saying by ACL.
Pardon?
Bank debt on this portfolio.
Bank debt on this portfolio would be to the tune of around INR 5,600 crore-INR 5,700 crore.
What is the total equity invested in the HAM portfolio now? Over and above this, we have invested in HAM, so how much is equity invested in HAM?
Total invested in HAM projects up to INR 650 crore.
Against that, how much will be the debt?
Against that number of debt, I'll have to just work it out.
So INR 5,700 crore includes the HAM debt, right? The banking debt.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it includes all.
Of that, I just wanted a breakup of the ACL debt and the HAM debt out of the INR 5,700.
Yeah, yeah. If you want to note it down correctly, I can give you the numbers.
Yeah, sure.
In Kharagpur, the debt is INR 530 crore.
Okay, I don't want project-wise.
Okay.
Okay, you can tell more about that. Overall debt is fine, sir, if you can give me overall debt?
One second. Around INR 1,800 crore.
In the ACL portfolio, it's about... In HAM, it is INR 1,800 crore.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. In HAM projects.
5,700 - 1,800, balance is the debt in the BOT portfolio.
Right.
Sorry, ACL portfolio. Okay. The total equity investment of about INR 2,550 crore. So 1,100 is your share, 800 is the Macquarie, you take 1,500, about INR 2,500 crore of equity investment is there overall in the portfolio, and debt of about INR 5,700 crore, right?
Right, right.
Okay, thank you so much. That's all.
Thank you. A reminder to participants, anyone who wishes to ask a question, may press star then one. The next question is from the line of Ashish Shah from Centrum Broking. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you. So what is the status of the Bihar project in terms of the appointed date and when we expect it to begin then?
Bihar, already both are working well.
Okay.
So started well, and, we have achieved the milestones also, much ahead of schedule.
Sure. And also just the last bit on the interest cost. So, you know, there was some sequential dip in the interest cost. So any particular reason why that would have gone down?
So, basically, interest cost has gone down, because good, I mean, good payment schedule from NHAI, basically. And, also, a lot of arbitrage done, during this period, because good liquidity in the market. We could borrow funds at fine rates in the range of 5.5%, instead of drawing our working capital, which is at around almost 8.5%-9%. It's kept the interest rates low, interest cost low.
So because our debt number actually went up because of the NCD, which-
Yeah, that was only a few. It's a blip.
Okay, okay. So you're saying average debt would have been lower if only towards the end of the quarter?
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Sure. Right. Okay. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rakesh Vyas from HDFC Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Good afternoon. Just for clarity, I think Parikshit wanted to understand. I got my numbers wrong, so correct me if that is wrong. The overall infusion of money by either SBI, Macquarie, or Ashoka Buildcon into the road portfolio is INR 1,900 crore of equity and INR 1,100 crore of support as debt. So total infusion is INR 3,000 crore and not INR 2,500 crore, which Parikshit was talking about.
Right. Right. So he's put it up in a different way. What he put up was probably the initial equity of around INR 2,000 crores or INR 1,900 crores, plus INR 650 crores invested in the HAM projects. That's how probably he's tried to link it, and balance INR 300 crores is typically funding for this BOT projects in the past. So any overrun or
Okay, but effectively, the total money infused is INR 3,000-odd crore so far.
Yeah.
The portfolio has a total debt of almost INR 5,700 crore.
Yeah, yeah.
INR 5,700 crore.
Yes. Right.
Including the under construction project. So that clarifies, that is helpful.
Yes.
Second is just on the asset management. I didn't get the clarity there. So what we are essentially saying is that the completion of all this deal will probably happen by end of this fiscal or the end of this calendar?
We are targeting end of this calendar.
Hello, sorry, your voice broke.
We are typically targeting end of this calendar.
... Okay. And if you can just, you know, provide some level of confidence that you have on this timeline, currently, I mean, barring any third wave or any of those issues. I'm just trying to understand as to where we are in the overall process.
Both the investor and the investee are engaged very highly, so confidence is quite high that it will happen.
Okay. Good luck for that, sir. And, Satish, this building construction, so as you highlighted a long time back, we used to do this. So I'm just trying to understand what brings us into this sector again, essentially? Because we have been looking more at linear projects in general, historically, and this is going to be more city-centric, specific location kind of projects. So what is the capability that we have now rebuilt to pursue these? If you can talk about. I know Maldives we have done, but in India we haven't much.
Yeah, see, this is a very strategic decision. Buildings is throwing up good opportunities, and these are easier to execute than highway projects. And CapEx requirement is also low, and we understand buildings. All our top management, in some part of their experience, have done buildings. So building EPC is suddenly throwing up good opportunities, so we picked up. So Maldives is a very prototype kind of construction, 2,000 flats of just repetitive nature, which will be completely mechanized, kind of. Plus what we have picked up in India is also a hospital and residential buildings.
And so just all-
EPC contract.
Correct.
Financial ties are already there.
So I was just, I was just coming to that. So, you know, in some of these, we have historically seen, you know, bad debts, et cetera, payment-related issues. So I'm just trying to understand on two fronts. One is, it is easy to execute, but raw material inflation could have significant impact on margin profile. So are we looking only those projects where we have full passthrough of any raw material inflation or deflation per se? And secondly, how we should look at securing our payments, in these projects? Because otherwise, we have historically, earlier, have seen many players getting into trouble.
Yeah. So these are not basically what we have picked up as a private project in India, so financials are already tied up. And what we have picked up in Maldives is Exim Bank funded. So funding definitely has been concerned with state governments, which we are typically avoiding. So wherever there is a funding line-up, where the execution is faster, those projects selectively we are picking up.
Oh.
A full setup has been put up for building vertical. Experienced team is already in place. Highly experienced team, I would say.
Great, sir. Lastly, so, if you will just talk about as to what is the kind of overall order book that you will want to continue to pursue on a sustainable basis in building segment? Because once you enter the segment, you have to be looking at sustainability and growth as well. I'm just trying to understand what is the-
Yeah.
comfort level that you have?
Yeah. Our focus will remain highways and railways. Building vertical will grow on its own, so we will be picking up. This year, we are targeting around INR 2,500 crore-INR 3,000 crore. Out of it, INR 1,600 crore is what we have already picked up. And another INR 200 crore-INR 300 crore miscellaneous, what we are doing. So another INR 1,000 crore-INR 1,500 crore should suffice for this year. And looking at this progress and putting teams in place, this should be our sustainable target going ahead.
Got it. And lastly, just out of curiosity, we haven't been winning new power T&D projects per se. So is the pipeline lacking or have we consciously decided to take a step back in that segment?
No, actually, there is no opportunity in distribution for any of the states throwing up now. There are some smaller transmission projects coming up, which we are bidding. So, power basically is not. Pipeline is not very strong.
Okay, got it. Great, sir. Thank you so much. I'll take that.
One clarification. The total debt is INR 5,300 on this HAM projects, right? That's a correction.
INR 5,300 crore-
Yes.
-is the total external debt on all projects put together?
HAM projects, HAM projects put together. Sorry,
HAM and BOT.
External debt is INR 5,300 crore on BOT-
HAM and BOT. HAM and BOT.
HAM and BOT.
HAM and BOT put together.
Yeah. Okay, got it. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. A reminder to participants, anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star then one. The next question is from the line of Anupam Gupta from IIFL. Please go ahead.
So just one clarification on the equity in HAM, which you have said. You said INR 650 crore has gone in, whereas at the start of the call, Mr. Parakh said that you have invested INR 824 crore total. So why is there a difference?
So that difference is due to the PIM. The PIM is amount which is paid by NHAI, which is retained at the SPV as an equity.
Okay, okay, understand. And secondly, sir, you had talked about some time back doing work in the smart city side. And I think there is a few tenders which are coming up in Maharashtra. So are you looking to bid for those? What sort of opportunity is that to look at?
Yeah, we are participating in Smart City projects also. We have completed Kohima successfully.
So what sort of size can this be? The tenders which are coming up, what sort of size you are targeting there?
I think there is a huge variation from every state. There is a variation from INR 100 crore-INR 1,000 crore.
Okay. Okay, okay. Understood, sir. Thank you. Bye.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jiten Rushi from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for taking my question. Sir, in terms of the revenue, so what target we are setting for the revenue from the older projects? I know we have won significant orders this quarter. So what could be the revenue from the older projects? Can you just highlight, because the new projects are about to start in a couple of quarters?
You know, as per I said, it was around 25% growth this year, which will be combined of old and new projects.
Okay.
Most of the older projects like VME and PS-One, Khanapur, and Khairatunda will see COD by the-
Uh-huh.
end of Q3.
Okay, okay, sir.
Khairatunda-Barwa Adda will see COD in Q2, VME in Q3, Khanapur, again, Q3. TS-II will see COD in Q4. So these all will be at advanced stage of completion.
Completion, yeah.
Projects will start in Q3. All the new projects would start. Yeah.
Sir, on the building front, again, I'm asking on it. So, are we qualified to bid for government projects like hospital or other Central Vista projects? Because so far we have looked for a private project, which is a long gestation, five-year project and the Maldives project. But if you are looking for an inflow of INR 2,000 crore-INR 2,500 crore every year, so how are, how are we qualified to bid for larger projects?
So once we have started execution of these existing two projects, Maldives and this definitely will build qualification. For the fewer projects, we may also take JV. Some of the projects we have to go through JV.
So right now, if you have-
Next year end, we would be like, we'll qualify on our own.
Okay. So right now in JV, how much can you bid for any project? Like, how much bid size you're targeting?
Every project will have a different combination, depending upon the qualification condition the tenders have.
Sir, can you just highlight on the-
We have a complete vertical now set up for building.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And sir, what is the outstanding bid pipeline right now? Can you highlight segment-wise, if possible, EPC, HAM, buildings?
Once, if you see, like, HAM and EPC, around INR 33,000 crore is what we are planning to participate in next quarter.
Uh-huh. So Q2, we are talking about?
Yeah, Q2. By the end of Q2, we'll be participating around INR 39,000 crore of projects. So Q2 is HAM and EPC.
But sir, any current outstanding, which we are expecting to open, anytime soon?
Nothing which is yet to open, like... Because Q1 has been a very low tender for-
Low tender.
Any activity. So Q2 is what we expect to make up for Q1.
Got you. Right. And sir, one last question, bookkeeping. What is the bank limit, non-fund and fund limit and utilization?
We have a total bank limit of around INR 5,000 crore. Axis Bank limit of INR 5,200 crore, of which approximately INR 800 crore is fund-based, of which INR 3,300 crore is CC limits.
Okay.
Others are WCDL or otherwise, which are alternative financing. So utilization in the fund base is to the tune of hardly 35%-40% out of 800 total.
Yeah.
On the BG front, our utilization is in the range of around 60%. So that is approximately INR 4,200 crores-INR 4,400 crores, non-fund-based.
Right, sir. That's it from my side. Thanks a lot, and all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ashish Shah from Centrum Broking. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you. So just, you know, just, sort of clarifying once again, carrying forward from the Rakesh Shah. So, INR 1,900 crore is the equity, including CCD. INR 1,100 crore is the total debt from ABL, which includes this NCD financing that we would have done-
Right, right. Right, right.
So what will happen after June is that, the INR 150, INR 160 or INR 170, that number will come back, and we have to add INR 250. So we have to basically add net about INR 100 crore to this number, if we have to take it as on date.
No, so INR 250 will get added, and INR 250 will get reduced from ABL's outstanding. This money which has been raised in NCD has been repaid to ABL. So as of date, it will be—this will be the position. So,
Okay, sure. So the total will remain the same. So total will remain the same.
Right. Right. Right.
Even post the raising of the INR 250 NCD.
Right, right, right.
The INR 5,300 crore is the total debt, including the debt for the HAM assets as well as for the BOT.
BOT, yeah.
[inaudible] .
Right. Right, right, right.
Got it. Got it, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. So there's a lot of confusion. So, this INR 3,000 crore includes the HAM equity also, right? All the equity contributions, right, BOT, HAM, everything, right, is over and above.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Okay, 3,000 in HAM. But I think earlier in the call, this number was, like, more on the higher side. So, I was wondering why this has changed now.
Maybe you could take it offline also. I don't know where the-
Okay.
-mismatch is.
Okay, sir. Sure.
Thank you. As there are no further questions, I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ashish Shah for closing comments.
Yeah, on behalf of Centrum Broking, I would like to thank all the participants for attending this call. Thank you to the management of Ashoka Buildcon for giving us the opportunity to host the call. Sir, any closing comments from your side?
We thank all the participants for joining this call, and we are always available through our or directly or through our Investor Relations, Stellar Investor Relations, for any queries or updates they would like to have. Thank you.
Thank you all.
Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Centrum-
Thank you, everyone.
That concludes this conference call for today. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.