Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Q4FY25 warning conference call of Antony Waste Handling Cell Limited. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions, and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not the guarantee of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touchstone phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Jose Jacob, Chairman and Managing Director from Antony Waste Handling Cell Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us for our Q4 and FY25 Earnings Conference Call. With me, I have Mr. Mahendra Ananthula, our Group President, Operation, Business Development, and Diversification, Mr. Subramanian, our Group CFO, and SGA, our Investor Relation Advisor. Our investor's presentation for Q4 and FY25 is now available on the stock exchange and on our company website. For the full year, the company has exhibited strong operational performance across all sides, efficiently managing high-turning volumes, demonstrating the strength and scalability of its operations. The company has successfully demonstrated exceptional operational efficiency, achieving an impressive plant load factor, of approximately 82%, in its flagship Waste-to-Energy facility, at PCMC, highlighting the plant's reliability and effectiveness in generating clean energy from waste. Additionally, our construction and demolition waste recycling initiative set a new industry benchmark, reaching a remarkable recycling rate of 96%.
Additionally, the successful conclusion of an arbitration process has resulted in a favorable settlement, yielding substantial one-time gains of INR 28 crore, and the fund has been credited to our account. These extraordinary line items have further supported the company's financial position and our overall stability. This favorable outcome not only affirms our unwavering commitment to strict adherence to tender conditions, but also strengthens our confidence that the remaining amounts currently involved in ongoing arbitration proceedings will be resolved in a similarly positive manner. Now, let me begin with the financial performance for the fourth quarter and for the full year 2025. We close the Q4 with a high record operating revenue, of INR 223 crore, reflecting a solid growth of 14%, compared to the Q4 FY2024. This achievement highlights the continued strength of our operating model and the effective execution across all business segments.
For the full year, we reported operating revenue, of INR 842 crore, representing a healthy 10%, increase over FY 2024. This performance was boosted by multiple factors, including higher volumes, increased sales of compost and Refuse Derived Fuel, enhancing tipping fees, steady power generation from our Waste-to-Energy facility, contribution from the SIDCO BioMNA, and the commercial commencement of our construction debris project in Deonar, Mumbai. Collectively, these drivers contribute significantly to our top line growth and position us well for the continued success in the upcoming fiscal year. During the quarter, our C&T business revenue, stood at INR 141 crore, and for FY 2025, stood at INR 581 crore. The processing entities showed robust progress, posting 48%,, year-on-year growth this quarter with revenue of around INR 82 crore, and for FY 2025, processing revenue, grew by impressive 25%, reaching INR 261 crore compared to FY 2024.
This growth was driven by high power sales from PCMC Waste-to-Energy plants, steady contribution from the SIDCO BioMNA project, and revenue from our construction and demolition waste processing. These results highlighted our integrated waste management strategy, blending operational excellence with strategic infrastructure investment that are now delivering consistent returns. Our EBITDA, for Q4 stood at INR 58 crore, reflecting a significant 33%, year-on-year growth with margin, standing at 23%. For FY2025, EBITDA stood at INR 220 crore, reflecting a year-on-year growth of 9%, with margin, standing at 23%, consistent with our stated guidance. This strong financial performance highlights our continued focus on operational excellence and our enhanced efficiency in waste processing operations, showcasing our ability to effectively utilize assets while reinforcing our unwavering commitment to sustainable waste management practices. Additionally, our wholly-owned subsidiary, AG Enviro, has commenced worldwide cooperation under the recent renewed Navi Mumbai Municipal Corporation contract strategic.
This strategic renewal showcases the company's strong foothold in the region and showcases its ability to effectively resecure and manage collection and transportation projects. Furthermore, as part of a strategic initiative aimed at optimizing both operational performance and financial strength, the company has commenced the process of merging AG Enviro, its large wholly-owned subsidiary, with the publicly listed holding company. With this planned restructuring of integrating AG Enviro, into the holding company, the organization anticipates significant improvements in operational synergy, cost-effectiveness, and overall financial stability, positioning itself for sustained growth. Looking ahead, we remain steadfast in our commitment to scaling up investment in sustainable waste management projects and enhancing operational excellence. By leveraging our expertise in MSW management, optimizing operational efficiency, and pursuing strategic expansion opportunities, we are dedicated to delivering strong, sustainable, and long-term value.
Through these efforts, we aim to build a cleaner, greener future, positively impacting the communities we serve and setting new standards in responsible waste management. Thanking you, and I now turn to the operational aspects. Let me get Mahendra in. Mahendra, over to you. Thank you.
Thank you, Joe. Before I get on to the operational performance of Antony Waste Handling Cell Limited, let me give a short brief on the recent Bombay High Court, order ruling around the Kanjur project. On 2 May 2025, Bombay High Court, set aside the 2009 denotification of approximately 120 hectares, in the Kanjur Nag landfills, thereby restoring its status as a protected forest under the Forest Conservation Act 1980 and the Indian Forest Act 1927. The court found this denotification to be non-compliant with statutory procedure, holding that the 2008 notification conferring protected mangrove forest status was based on due process and factual assessment, not clerical errors as suggested by the State of Maharashtra and BMC. The BMC, is directed to effectuate restoration of forest status within three months, during which waste disposal may continue.
Municipal solid waste management, including collection, transportation, treatment, and disposal, is considered an essential service under the Essential Services Maintenance Act 1981. This order significantly impairs Mumbai's waste management regime, as the Kanjurmarg site processes the majority of the city's solid waste and no immediate alternative exists. The State of Maharashtra and BMC, intend to challenge the order before the Supreme Court, while landfill operations and concession rights and protection under the concession agreement remain intact, which includes seeking compensation for losses from premature cessation, decommissioning costs, third-party claims, invested capital, and foregone revenue, for the remaining concession period. In short, the State Government and BMC, have decided to challenge this decision in the Supreme Court. They are exploring legal options on the subject because BMC, other than the Kanjurmarg site, has no other option in the city for scientific disposal of MSW. Now, on to the operational aspects.
The company's waste recycling facility in PCMC, delivered exceptional operational performance, achieving a remarkable plant load factor, of approximately 90%, a significant increase from 76% , in the preceding quarter. For 2025, the facility maintained a strong average PLF, of about 82%, reflecting sustained operational excellence and robustness of the underlying technology. This performance highlights the plant's reliability and efficiency in converting waste into clean energy, reaffirming the company's confidence in its WTE capabilities. Furthermore, Antony Waste's construction and demolition waste recycling initiative, established a new industry benchmark by achieving an impressive 96% recycling rate, effectively transforming waste into valuable resources and advancing the circular economy goals. During the quarter, our collection and transportation operations efficiently managed about 0.49 million tons of waste, and processed around 0.87 million tons of municipal solid waste, showcasing the year-on-year growth of 7% and 30% respectively.
The total tonnage for Q4 of FY25 stood at about 1.36 million tons, representing a notable 20%, year-on-year increase. Over the course of FY25, we managed a total MSW volume, of about 4.93 million tons, reflecting a 6%, year-on-year growth. This robust performance highlights the strength of our operations and strengthens our confidence in achieving our internal volume growth targets. In quarter four of FY25, we started the new Navi Mumbai collection and transportation contract, in a phased manner, and all the wards will be fully operational in quarter one of FY26. On the waste-to-energy front, our PCMC waste-to-energy plant, generated over 26 million green units, in quarter four of FY25, highlighting our ongoing commitment to reduce reliance on fossil fuels and lowering carbon emissions. Through these efforts, we also avoided 2,629 tons of CO2 equivalent, reinforcing our dedication to sustainability and environmental stewardship.
The company achieved record annual sales, for both compost and RDF, underscoring the growing momentum of our waste valorization initiative. In the March quarter itself, RDF sales,, reached about 45,200 tons, while compost sales stood at around 4,500 tons. For the full fiscal year, RDF sales, increased to about 1,148,000 tons, and compost sales, nearly doubled to around 21,200 tons compared to 146,000 tons and 10,000 tons respectively in the previous year. This robust growth reflects our continued commitment to transforming waste into valuable resources, while also indicating rising market acceptance and demand for our high-quality, sustainable products. On the ESG front, our scope one and scope two emissions for the year totaled about 26,000 tons and 2,700 tons of carbon dioxide equivalent respectively, with avoided emissions amounting to around 12,800 tons.
Additionally, our ground staff strength currently stands at 10,766, reflecting our continued investment in a skilled workforce to support our operations and sustainability initiatives. Going forward, the company remains deeply committed to fostering sustainable growth while continually enhancing operational efficiency. Our journey is anchored in a robust track record of performance, underpinned by a culture of adaptability and an unwavering dedication to excellence. These core strengths position us to not only meet but exceed our internal objectives as we align our operations with evolving environmental standards. Thank you, and I now hand over the call to Subramanian, for financial cover.
Thank you, Mahendra. Good afternoon, everyone. For the fourth quarter ending March 2025, our operating revenue, witnessed a strong growth of 14%, reaching a record high of INR 223 crore, compared to the same period last year. For the full year, this figure stood at INR 843 crore, a growth of 10%, on a year-on-year basis. The total operating revenue, which includes income from the sale of recyclables and RDF, but excludes contract revenue, stood at INR 247 crore, for the quarter, reflecting a 15% year-on-year growth. For the full year, this number stood at INR 933 crore, a growth of 8%. In FY25, we have observed a shift in our revenue composition. MSW CNG, contributed 61%, of the revenue, with processing accounting for 27%, and contracts and others at 12%. This reflects a change from FY24, where these numbers were 62%, 23%, and 14% respectively.
Our diversified revenue streams continue to offer strategic flexibility and position the company for long-term sustained growth. The group reported an EBITDA, of INR 58 crore, for the quarter, which is a 33%, year-on-year growth, with margins at 23%. For 2025, the EBITDA, stood at INR 220 crore, reflecting a year-on-year growth of 9%, and an EBITDA margin, of 23%, in line with our stated guidance. These results underscore its efficiency and the financial discipline adopted by the company. For the quarter, the profit before tax before exceptional items stood at INR 25 crore, reflecting a substantial growth of 90%, on a year-on-year basis. For the full year, the profit before tax, stood at INR 95 crore, versus INR 109 crore. On a year-on-year basis, this decline was primarily attributable to higher interest and depreciation expenses following the commissioning of the Waste-to-Energy and the CNG projects.
Notably, cash profit before taxes, has increased by 16%, to INR 188 crore, for the enhancing of financial flexibility and resilience. The PAT, for the quarter was INR 46 crore, a growth of 53%, on a year-on-year basis. For FY 2025, it stood at INR 101 crore, a marginal growth, of 1%. During the fourth quarter, the company achieved an extraordinary gain of INR 23.9 crore, a direct result of a decisive victory in arbitration proceedings upheld by the Bombay High Court. This landmark outcome reaffirms our uncompromising commitment to upholding tender conditions and sets a strong precedent for our continued adherence to the highest standards of compliance. As of March 2025, the group's gross debt stood at approximately INR 473 crore, with cash and bank balances, of around INR 132 crore, resulting in a net debt, of approximately INR 341 crore. This indicates a net debt-to-equity of 0.4x.
The group's weighted cost of debt, is approximately 9.1%, and the DSOs, remained stable at 101. Cash flow from operations post-taxes, has improved by 34%, year-on-year to INR 1,870,000,000 from INR 1,400,000,000 last year. Looking ahead, we remain steadfast in our commitment to operational efficiency and excellence. The efficient performance of our WTE project, the successful commercial launch of our C&D project, and the commencement of revenue generation, from our new C&T contract, effectively helps us to report stable and growth going forward. Escalations, which is a part of our business, have been slightly sticky in the last period, which we feel can be made up with the clear approach coming in time. We anticipate steady and sustainable progress in the upcoming fiscal years, which is aided by a healthy, orderable position of approximately INR 83,000,000,000, which further reinforces our confidence in achieving the company's long-term strategic objectives.
That concludes our remarks. We would now like to open the floor for Q&A.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star then one on their touch-tone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star then two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Again, to register for a question, please press star then one. Our first question comes from the line of Atul Daga, from Daga Securities. Please go ahead.
Hello.
Good afternoon, sir.
Yes, good afternoon.
Sir, just two questions from my side. Have we recently submitted any bids for new contracts? If so, could you provide some insights into? Which projects are we focusing on, collection and transportation or processing, considering that processing is a better margin product?
Yes, hi. Good afternoon. When it comes to processing projects, we have already submitted two waste-to-energy tenders in the south of India. Actually, three. We have submitted three, two in the south and one in the western part of the country. Two more waste-to-energy projects we are currently working on the tenders. There are five processing projects, to answer your question. In the collection and transportation segment, as we speak, we are currently working on the Mumbai CNT tender. The eight packages in Mumbai, have come up for tender last week. We are working for that. We will be bidding for it. Apart from this, there is also one package in the south of India, which we will be bidding for.
Okay. Sir, another question from my end. As our objective is to reduce dependency on municipal corporations, are we actively looking on any new opportunities? If we are, can you please share the update on the tire recycling and vehicle scrapping front as well?
Thank you for asking this question because as we have always maintained that we are always trying to look for non-municipal clients. As we speak, we are in the advanced stage of discussion with a very large Indian corporate to supply for a waste-to-steam project. Unlike a waste-to-energy project where we process RDF, to generate electricity, this would be producing processed steam. This corporate would be using it for their captive manufacturing facility. This is a project that we are very excited about. Coming to the end-of-life vehicle scrapping and so on, as we had mentioned in the previous learning calls, we wanted to buy land for the project. We are pleased to announce that we have identified one piece of land, and we should be closing this deal in the next couple of months.
Hopefully, in the next earnings call, we will be giving an update on that.
Okay. Okay. That was helpful. Thank you so much. All the best.
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, if you wish to register for a question, you may press star then one. Our next question comes from the line of Rupam Jaiswal, from Investwell Agents. Please go ahead.
Hello.
Yes, hi. Good afternoon.
Yeah, good afternoon, sir. Sir, I just had one question. In this current quarter, you bought a receivable, long-due receivable of INR 4 crore, and you bought an interest payment, around INR 23 crore. So how many cases are pending with you all, the long-due cases like this?
We have one large case which is pending in the Supreme Court, for the final hearing. That would be to the tune of around INR 15 crore. Additionally, there are around INR 19 crore, of unbilled revenues, waiting confirmation from the client. These are the two large revenue blocks which are still outside for which we are awaiting clarification and confirmation from the legal body and from the client.
In a way, how long was this case pending? This INR 4 crore, was just the book value, but you bought an interest payment, of INR 23 crore. How long was this case pending for you all?
It was close to 14 years for us.
Fourteen years. In the rest cases, as you have said, about INR 15 crore, and the rest of the unbilled revenue. We have all the book value.
In case of the INR 15 crore amount, we do not expect any interest payouts from that because this has been cleared from the standing committee of that particular municipal corporation. We do not foresee any additional revenue from that. On the escalation amount, I think this will keep on adding as the time increases.
Okay. So these are the only two cases which are pending with you all, guys, as of now?
Yes. These are the only two points, and these are all pre-2016 events. As and when we post-2016, our contracts have been much more cleaner and much more transparent in terms of interpretation. That helps the tendering team and the client.
Okay. Okay, sir. That was my only question. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Rohit Maheshwari, from Tata AIG General Insurance. Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir.
Good evening, Rohit.
Okay, sir. First question I have, you said in your opening remark that you have an order book of INR 8,300 crore. Yes?
Yeah.
Can you give a breakup of this INR 8,300 crore,, and the time given duration of this INR 8,300 crore to get executed?
Of the INR 8,300 crore, on a percentage basis, close to 58%, is having a long tail which will expire by 2040. The balance would be executed over the next 12 years.
Next?
12 years. 12 years.
Mutluf, it has a 15-year, on an average, it will be 13-14-odd years.
Yeah.
Okay. Sir, just to understand, because you are in a sector where the time is too large, I don't think the time is a problem. I guess the problem is, considering the size of your company, we are not seeing a growth of like 15-17%, type of growth at the top line and the bottom line level. The expectation of investors from your company of 15-17% is wrong, and we should tone it down to 7-8%, type of growth or something. I'm going in the wrong direction.
Let me put this into perspective. If you were to look at a large five-year trend, I mean, my revenue, in 2021 was INR 480-odd crore, and I'm doing around INR 960-odd crore today. In the span of five years, I think I've almost doubled my revenue. Now, if you were to look at on a year-on-year basis, FY 2024 was INR 890 crore, and FY 2025 was INR 960 crore. Not a big number. As we have been reiterating at time ad nauseam, we cannot show a linear growth of 15%-20%, on a year-on-year basis. We will be showing a scattered growth, which will be stepped-up growth for us because as and when we bag a contract, the revenue starts coming in CNT business, after eight months, and in case of processing, after 12-odd years. We will not be able to show a 10%-15%-20% year-on-year growth.
If you look at a scattered growth, that's the historical trend, and that is a pathway that we have. The company's balance sheet also supports such kind of large jumps in new projects, and that's how you will see the net back to be kept at 0.4, and it's not at 1.1 consistently. The moment we get new contracts which meet our threshold returns, which meet our risk parameters, which meet our internal milestones, then we go with those projects and we deploy the capital adequately. This is a very tough industry when it comes to managing waste, and it's also a tough industry given the fact that it's a B2G, kind of a concept.
Basically, if I got you right, basically, I think it's not a company to see from a year-end perspective. You need to see the company from a five-year perspective. And on a five-year perspective, the CAGR, can be 15%-17%-odd. Year-on-year cannot be a CAGR of 15%. This is the key takeaway I can take out.
Yeah, that's a good way to summarize this.
Okay. Secondly, I guess I've read somewhere in FY 2025, you had some revenue from construction and demolition. Yes?
Yes.
What was that amount?
We normally do not comment on unit-wise numbers, but on a broad basis, we handled around 250-300 tons, per day for the last four months. The average realization would be around INR 1,405 per ton. That is our trend. We expect a jump from those. We expect that in the next six months, I mean, this number of 250-300 tons,, per day kind of processing will increase to 600-700 tons. The plant is designed or capable of processing close to 1,200 tons per day. We are here, but the quantity here will ramp up over a period of time. It is a continuing project for us.
The contract value will always be between INR 50 crore and INR 75 crore. Correct?
That assumes only CND, for skipping fees. There is also additional revenue from sale of byproducts like MSW and your rocks and aggregates. So realization of that will also be something that will add to the top line.
I would say that in our business plan, we have, I mean, we are working with a 600 tons, per day kind of number. With the kind of skipping fee that we have, we will have about INR 30-32 crore, of annual revenue.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Can I just, to one step before, I was asking 15-17% CAGR, do you see your company in the next five years to be a top line of INR 2,000 crore, type of top line and a bottom line of INR 200-odd crore, plus bottom line?
Rohit, if you were to look at the kind of project that we are bidding for, it will be very unusual for us to say those numbers today. I think as the time evolves, we will be in a better position to say numbers and stick our neck out.
Okay. Thank you, sir. I'm done.
Thank you. Participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. Our next question comes from the line of Ketan R. Chedda, from Retail Investor. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. My first question is with regards to the debt and the cash that we have on the balance sheet. I believe we have about INR 130-odd crore of cash. Do we have any plans to retire any of the debt so that our interest cost, can reduce in the next financial year?
Hi. Of the INR 132 crore of debt, bulk of them have been given as collateral for bank carrying in the earnest money deposit for an ongoing contract. INR 28 crore of cash, is recently received as of the month end from the arbitration proceeds that we won. The plan is to use the capital in a very judicious manner. There are a couple of upcoming projects which Mahendra, had mentioned. We will be using this as an equity contribution, towards those new projects. If nothing fructifies, then yes, we will be applying the same towards debt repayment.
Okay. And just a continuation to that, we were to receive the VGF amount for our PCMC WTE plant. Have you received the full consideration of the Viability Gap Funding amount?
We have received out of the INR 15 crore, we have received INR 45 crore of the VGF funds, and the same has been used to retire debt and provide collateral to the lender. The balance INR 5 crore, is due in the next six months' time, which the company is following it up.
Okay. My another question is with respect to the Kanjur court case. Now, again, this is a very hypothetical scenario, so please bear with me. For example, in a worst-case basis, if the Supreme Court, also kind of gives a similar verdict and we have to cancel the project at the Kanjur, what is it that we will receive for the termination of the contract? What would be the quantum of the amount that we would receive?
We are actually engaging one of the Big Four, for doing an independent valuation exercise for the same for exactly the same reason. As you rightly said, I mean, this is a hypothetical situation because, as you would have noticed, DMC, officially has made a statement that the city will come to a standstill if this project had to stop because they have no other alternative site to sell. We are very clear, and as we said also in our commentary, that in the worst-case scenario, if the project is terminated, then we will get, and as per the concession agreement, our rights are protected, and we will seek.
What's Rachel Grice's initiated?
Commissioning cost, a third-party claim.
Rachel Grice style, zero again.
Hello? Yeah. The amount that's invested and the loss of revenue. We will be looking at all that thing. Anyway, to get to a number, we are taking help of one of the Big Four audit firms.
Sure. I'll ask Mahendra, again.
Mahendra, mentioned, the legal opinion clearly states that the operator will get compensation for the losses from premature cessation of work. Any decommissioning cost incurred, that will be reimbursed. Any third-party claims from lenders will also be reimbursed. Invested capital and outgoing revenue, for the remaining concession period will also be paid. Basically, I mean, the operator does not have anything to lose here. The city will.
Sure. Sure. My last question is on their tire recycling and the vehicle scrappage project. Is there a tentative timeline by when we can start commercializing and start booking the revenues for that project? I know it is delayed due to their land acquisition process, but just any timeline that you have set right now, as of now?
Yeah. As I mentioned, I mean, we have already identified the land. We expect to close the land deal in the next four months. Okay. Then it is a six to eight months, six to nine months process for commissioning of, for implementation of the project. You can say from FY 2026 onwards, it will be the operational phase for the project. FY 2027, sorry. FY 2027, it will be operational.
Sure. Sure. All right. Thank you so much. All the best. Thank you. Thank you. Those are my questions.
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, if you wish to register for a question, you may press star then one on your touchstone phone. Our next question comes from the line of Karan Sharma, from KS Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello. I'm Audible.
Yeah.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. I just had one question. We have always guided to the market that we would be growing our operating revenue by around 20%, but this year we could achieve only 10%. What is the future outlook for the next year and the years to come?
We have been guiding a 20-25%, CAGR growth, on our operating cash flow, not a year-on-year growth. As I mentioned, I mean, it's very difficult for us to maintain that kind of a year-on-year growth. If you look at a bunch of three to five years, I would say a total CAGR growth, is what we have been guiding, and that is something that we feel a 20-25%, is achievable based on the project pipeline that we have. In the current financial year, if you look at the soft or core operating revenue, of 10%, that's mainly because of a few of the clients' escalation amounts not getting recognized in the reported period because we are still awaiting clarification and confirmation from the client. Once the same were to come, the same will be recorded in the current financial year.
Okay. Got it. Got it. That's awesome, Mahendra. Thank you so much, sir.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Soumya S. from Insightful Investments. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. I just wanted to clarify the 250-300 tons, per day collection that we do. What was the realization that you said for the same?
We have paid skipping fee for the waste collected, transported, and processed. The skipping fee for that is INR 1,400 per ton, which BMC.
Oh, BMC.
Yes, sir. Yeah.
Another clarification was when you spoke about the INR 8,300 crore order, which is to be split completion by 40 and over the next 12 years, what was that exactly regarding? Which project is it?
This is a cumulative of all the projects that we have. We have 26 projects, of different tenures, and we have existing tonnage, and we have an existing rate. If you multiply that, this is the total value of project that we need to execute based on contracts that we already signed or executing as of today.
Understood, sir. Thank you.
This is the value of the project, which still needs to be executed over the year.
Okay, sir. Understood. Thank you.
Thank you. Participants, you may press star then one to ask a question. A reminder to all the participants, if you wish to register for a question, please press star then one now. Our next question comes from the line of Sevant Burman Naghavi, an investor. Please go ahead.
Yeah. I'm audible.
Yes, sir. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. My question is based on more direction-wise. So generally, the more fees in the processing contracts, right? It's not in the C&T. C&T, is the tripod, right? So why are we not winning or more processing-based contracts like the consumer plants?
As I mentioned earlier, we are currently bidding for five projects, four of which are waste-to-energy projects, and one is a waste pre-processing project. There are five contenders that we are currently bidding. Over and above that, as I mentioned, we also are in advanced stage of discussion with a private corporate for a waste-to-steam project. That would be, you can say, a private entity merchant plant. If you're.
Any revenue side from that?
I'm sorry?
Any revenue side for that corporate deal?
No. It's too early. I mean, we are currently finalizing the technical and the commercial conditions. Okay. As and when it matures, I mean, we will be happy to share the details.
Okay. My second question is, what's the revenue from WTE plant in FY25?
It is INR 62 crore.
Okay. Can I consider EBITDA of 40%?
We normally don't comment on plant-wise EBITDA, numbers over here, but 40%, is low range for such projects.
Okay. Okay. So my last question is, so from now on, we'll bid more for WTE plants, than collection and transportation and processing contracts because the more contracts are being bid for WTE plants. Is that the right statement?
No. I mean, we actually want to have a balance of the two because both have their advantages and disadvantages. In collection and transportation contracts, we are also very choosy. That is why we are bidding only for large cities or large municipalities who have the ability to pay and have a good track record of payments.
Okay. Yeah. Can I ask one more question? In your opinion, how many cities are doing processing like Mumbai, sir?
I mean, five I have already mentioned, right? I mean, you can say maybe another four or five are in advanced stage of tender preparation. You can say 10, maybe.
Yeah. No, no. My question was more based on, so these tier 2 and tier 3 cities, right? They do not process waste. They just dump in the open grounds, right? Why are they not tendering processing contracts is, I mean, what my question was.
You know, it comes back to what to do with the affordability of those cities, but it is not that every city is looking at only waste-to-energy. I mean, there are several cities which are looking at composting as an option. They are looking at MRF, and composting and RDF as a solution. They are looking at bi-energy projects as a processing option. There are different cities looking at different kinds of waste processing technologies and processing. Waste-to-energy, has to be one of them, which is a good solution for a city of, let's say, a size of 1 million-plus population.
Yeah. Got it, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Participants, you may press star then one to ask a question. Our next question comes from Ronak Shah, from Equista Securities Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah. My first question is regarding the volume. When we look at the fourth-quarter volume growth, the total tonnage we have handled plus processed is around 19%. Is it a less-to-like comparison or is there something I am missing here?
Sorry, Mahendra. Can you speak clearly?
Yeah, sir. For the quarter, the total tonnage, including the collection and processing, the growth is at 19%. Is this a like-to-like comparison or something which we are looking over here?
Yeah. This is not like-to-like comparison because we have adjusted the numbers for the Mangalore project, which had a runoff. This is on our existing contracts that we are talking about, that this is a growth on our existing numbers of the live contract. That is why you see a disparity in the volume's growth versus the revenue growth.
Okay, sir. From like-to-like basis, what can be the steady-state growth going forward in the next two to three years?
If we were to work on our existing projects on the C&T business, with escalation and the volume's growth, we will be looking at anywhere between 8-11%, depending upon the escalation again. We normally see a volume growth of around 3-4%, and the escalation keeps additional 3-8%, depending upon the minimum waste change and the HSD component price rate.
Okay. Got it. My second question is regarding to the margin. When we compare the guidance vis-à-vis the actual performance, our core operating EBITDA margin, excluding the other income streams, is in the range of 20-21%. How are companies seeing this margin panning out over the next two to three years?
Bulk of our CapEx, at our processing units are almost at the fragment of our life. I would say the core EBITDA margins, and the reported EBITDA margins, should kind of merge over the next two to three quarters. I think post-monsoon, there may be an additional two quarters of CapEx, but post that, we do not foresee significant CapEx, movement in our existing processing contracts.
Okay. So I can expect similar 20-21% kind of EBITDA margin?
No. Actually, the core EBITDA margin, will move towards 22-23%.
Okay. Got it. Got it. Yeah. That's it from my side, sir. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to Mr. Jose Jacob, for closing comments.
I want to take a moment to thank our dedicated team for their incredible contributions to our success. Your tireless efforts have been essential in achieving our goals, and we are building on that momentum. Our focus remains on delivering consistent results and creating long-term value for our shareholders. We are committed to investing in innovation and leveraging our expertise to strengthen our market position and drive sustainable growth. I'm particularly excited about our path toward a cleaner and greener future. Thank you for all.
Ladies and gentlemen, the line for the management has been disconnected. Please stay connected while we reconnect the line for the management. Ladies and gentlemen, we have the management reconnected with us. Please go ahead, sir.
I want to take a moment to thank our dedicated team for their incredible contribution to our success. Your tireless efforts have been essential in achieving our goals, and we are building on that momentum. Our focus remains on delivering consistent results and creating long-term value for our shareholders. We are committed to investing in innovation and leveraging our expertise to strengthen our market position and drive sustainable growth. I'm particularly excited about our path toward a cleaner and greener future. I wish you all a very pleasant evening, and thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of Antony Waste Handling Cell Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us. You may now reconnect your lines.