Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Bajaj Finserv Limited Q1 FY23 earnings conference call hosted by JM Financial. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sameer Bhise from JM Financial. Thank you and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Renju. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us to the Bajaj Finserv Limited 1Q FY23 earnings conference call. Firstly, I would like to thank the management of Bajaj Finserv Limited for giving us an opportunity to host this call. From the management team, we have Mr. S. Sreenivasan, CFO, Bajaj Finserv Limited, Mr. Tapan Singhel, CEO, Bajaj Allianz General Insurance Company, Mr. Ramandeep Singh Sahni, CFO, Bajaj Allianz General Insurance Company. From the life insurance business, we have Mr. Bharat Kalsi, Chief Financial Officer of the Bajaj Allianz Life Insurance Company. Without much ado, I would now hand over the call to Mr. S. Sreenivasan for his opening comments, and then we can open for Q&A. Over to you, sir. Thank you.
Thank you, Sameer. Good morning, everybody. Welcome to the conference call to discuss the result of Bajaj Finserv Limited for Q1 of FY23. That is the quarter ended thirtieth June 2022. As before in this call, we will largely be concentrating on the consolidated results as well as the results of our insurance operations through Bajaj Allianz General Insurance, BAGIC, and Bajaj Allianz Life Insurance, BALIC, and where material, the standalone results of our company, Bajaj Finserv. Bajaj Finance Limited, which is another major subsidiary of ours, already had its conference call. However, if there are any high-level questions on BFL, we will take that as well.
We will not be taking any questions on the status of Allianz's stake in our insurance companies, except to state that the status has remained the same as at the end of the previous quarter, and there is no change. Any statement that may look like forward-looking statements are just estimates and do not constitute an assurance or indication of any future performance to return. As required by regulation, we have adopted Indian accounting standards. The insurance companies are not covered under Ind AS. They have prepared Ind AS financials only for the purpose of consolidation. Accordingly, for BAGIC and BALIC, the standalone numbers that we will be reporting and talking about or put up on our website are based on non, Ind AS accounting standards or Indian GAAP as applicable to insurance companies.
Our results, the press release accompanying the results and our investor deck has been uploaded on our website yesterday. I hope you have all had a chance to go through it. Let me add a word about the additional disclosures in our investor deck. We have added an update on the policy administration systems adopted by both our insurance companies. These are under implementation and one of them is under pilot implementation. These are designed from ground up, adopting relevant modern technology, and we expect that once fully rolled out, it will give the benefit of scalability and efficiency. I must highlight the fact that we will probably be the first to be predominantly cloud native, and this could be a new trend in the market.
We have also added updates on our two digitally oriented subsidiaries, Bajaj Finserv Direct or Bajaj Markets and Bajaj Finserv Health, although they are not yet material subsidiaries under the scope of OBI. We do hope these disclosures will be useful to our investor community. Coming to the performance updates for Q1 of FY 2023. Conditions for businesses in Q1 FY 2023 were significantly better compared to the previous quarter of the previous year. Barring an increase in claims for BAGIC, overall it was an excellent quarter for all our businesses. Let me start with BALIC. I think we had all-round growth, which was excellent. Individual rated new business premium recorded 81% year-on-year increase to INR 895 crore. Group protection new business was up 76% at INR 574 crore.
Overall new business premium more than doubled to INR 2,917 crore from INR 1,296 crore in Q1 of FY 2022. On the back of renewed premium growth of 19%, the gross written premium was up 74% year-on-year. A matter of satisfaction for us is that over three years, compared to the pre-COVID period, BALIC's growth in this Q1 is the highest in the market. During the quarter, growth was driven by all our main channels, with agency, institutional business, which includes bancassurance, brokers, corporate agents and BALIC direct growing at 63%, 68% and 105% respectively. New business was 38%. Non-par savings, 31% of the product mix, with par contributing 19%, annuity 9% and retail term 3%.
Persistence improved across all cohorts, with the 13-month persistence at 83% and the 61st month at 49%. While growing rapidly, BALIC has also recorded significant increase in its net new business value or NBV. The NBV for the quarter was INR 135 crore as against INR 25 crore in Q1 of FY 2022. With the new business margin improving to 11.1% from 4.2% in the same quarter of the previous year. In the life insurance business, Q1 is the lowest seasonally, as you are aware. Since fixed expenses get charged fairly equally across quarters, margins tend to be lower in Q1. Therefore, a double-digit margin in Q1 is a significant achievement.
BALIC's profit after tax for Q1 FY 2023 was INR 124 crore against INR 84 crore in Q1 FY 2022, a growth of 48%. However, I must mention here that Q1 FY 2022 was impacted due to higher death claims and reserving on account of COVID-19, net of some tax reversals. Therefore, normally when you grow so fast, you would expect a new business strain, which is indeed the case, but it has been more than offset by the higher claims which we recorded in Q1 of FY 2022. I would like to highlight another significant development in Q1 for BALIC, which is that they have signed two new corporate agency agreements on bancassurance with DBS and City Union Bank respectively. We hope to see these contributing to growth from Q3 and beyond.
If you recall, one of the gaps BALIC used to have a few years ago was on banc assurance tie-ups, and now with several partners, a business has become significantly large for BALIC. New tie-ups will also help us diversify business across partners. Let me move on to BAGIC now. Growth in GWP has been very good overall at 25% and excluding tender-driven business with government has grown 19%. Due to the strong growth, and since we had to amortize premium over the life of the policies, our net earned premium growth was just 2%. We hope the earned premium for the quarter should get released over the next few quarters. The quarter also witnessed challenges on the claims front. We saw significant increase in Motor OD claims, both in terms of frequency and severity.
As growth builds up, combined with selective underwriting actions, we hope to stabilize this in a couple of quarters. While auto sales have just started picking up from its lows, it will be some time before it plays out in terms of growth. Due to very high traffic on the roads, there was an increase in frequency of TP claims, and Bajaj has chosen to reserve prudently for TP claims. On the health front, Bajaj was cautious of retail health with the possibility of a new COVID wave. Unlike life insurance, impact of a COVID wave is fairly immediate for general and health insurance. As things are stabilizing, Bajaj will seek now to accelerate growth. Bajaj will seek to strengthen the team in its health vertical and also seek to promote health insurance through marketing efforts. Bajaj has recently launched its first global health policy for Indian residents.
We believe this is the first, probably among the first, if it is not the first in the Indian market. The pick-up on its Health Prime rider, which was announced in Q4, which includes outpatient treatment and teleconsultations, has been very good since launch. To date, we have sold over 500,000 such riders. With its extensive product range, outstanding service record on claims, and with marketing focus, Bajaj hopes to regain growth in retail health over the next few quarters. Overall, there has been an increase in the frequency and severity of non-COVID claims in the health business. Group Health grew strongly as Bajaj was able to write more accounts on its own terms and also gaining the benefit, gaining advantage of some benefit products that it sells through NBFCs. Under the classification of IRDAI, benefit products come under group.
Claim ratio for health overall is lower in Q1, largely due to provision for COVID claims in Q1 of FY 2022. Let me touch upon the commercial and corporate lines, fire engineering, marine, etc. Although they seem to get less attention as they are not retail, this has always been BAGIC's strength, and it's a significant proportion of the market. We had another good quarter with BAGIC outgrowing the industry. With its excellent reinsurance capacity and terms and a vast bancassurance network, BAGIC hopes to further strengthen its position in these segments over the next few quarters. On account of lower growth in earned premium and higher claims, BAGIC reported an underwriting loss of INR 61 crore and a combined ratio of 104.6.
Profit after tax grew by 13% to INR 411 crore, helped by higher profit on sale of investments of INR 279 crore as against INR 132 crore in Q1 FY 2022. Overall, a good quarter for BAGIC, though higher claims pose the challenge. Now to touch upon BFL briefly. An excellent quarter for the company across the balance sheet growth, portfolio quality and profitability. Highest ever new customer acquisitions in Q1. On track to go fully digital across all products and services on app by January 2023 and by web hopefully by March 2023. The asset under management or AUM crossed INR 2 lakh crore with an increase of 38%. Deposits grew strongly and are now 20% of borrowings.
The gross NPA and the net NPA continue to be under control at 1.25% and 0.51% respectively, and BFL continues to maintain a management overlay of INR 1,000 crore on its expected credit loss provisions. Consolidated profit of BFL grew 159% to INR 2,596 crore. The pre-provision operating profit grew 37%. Bajaj Housing Finance continues to do well with a 40% growth. AUM ended at INR 57,425 crore, while net interest income grew 77% to INR 595 crore. NPAs continue to be low, with net NPA at just 0.19%. It was only in 2017, FY 2017 that Bajaj Housing Finance started business on its own with a small book from Bajaj Finance.
For 5 years, using INR 57,000 crore, we believe is a very strong start for this business. On the back of growth and good risk metrics, profit after tax grew 96% to INR 316 crore. A word on our consolidated results. On the back of strong results from our subsidiaries, the consolidated results were very strong. The consolidated total income was up 14% year-on-year at INR 15,888 crore, and the consolidated profit after tax was up 57% at INR 1,309 crore. This consolidated profit is after volatile mark-to-market losses on the investment portfolio of BAGIC and BALIC, which is recognized under Ind AS in the consolidated financials and which had a post-tax impact of INR 283 crore. The underlying core profitability would have been significantly higher excluding this.
Overall, a very strong start to FY 2023, and we do hope the momentum continues into the next few quarters. Last word you must have seen from the press release yesterday and the filings in the Stock Exchange that Bajaj Finserv has decided to split its INR 5 share into 5 shares of INR 1 each, and thereafter give a bonus of 1:1, so that an INR 5 share today will eventually become ten shares of INR 1 each, which will be after due approvals by shareholders. With that, I will pass it on to you for any questions you have or clarifications that you may need. Thank you.
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Prakash Kapadia from Anived Portfolio Managers Private Limited. Please go ahead, sir.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Couple of questions from my end. On the Motor OD as well as TP side, we've grown slower than industry in Q1. Is it, you know, aggressive pricing by others or, you know, we were waiting for third party hikes or, you know, certain segments we are avoiding? If you could give some color on the motor side, please.
Before I pass it on to Tapan, I'll give a broad look.
Sure.
All asset-based insurance is motor or property. When you go through a cycle where growth has been slowed, the growth doesn't pick up in the same proportion across the sub-segments. For example, in motor if you see, it is a complex business. You have motor, OD, TP. Within that you have two-wheelers, you have private cars, and then you have commercial vehicles that are goods carrying, passenger carrying. It's not that all of them have grown similarly. As the growth comes back, whether we are a little bit here or there, it's only the market is not important because it's only one quarter. We are running a long-term business. We will pick up the growth on the segments that we want. Typically, BAGIC has always been conservative on the heavy vehicle segment, which gives very high severity of third-party losses.
Therefore, as we go along, we will continue to focus on the segments that we like. Now I'll hand it over to Tapan Singhel to give a proper flavor on this end.
Sure.
Thank you, Sreeni. I think you summed it very beautifully. When you look at growth, I think it is in context in what we want to drive and how the market growth is happening for those particular segment of vehicles which is there. The play of these two which takes on, and that is where the overall growth comes. At times the segment in which we are driving, if they are growing better than the market, then our growth would go over the market. If they are not doing as good as the market, then our growth would come under the market. This also is dynamic. It's not like a fixed kind of segment. We have a strong team of underwriters actually, so and we keep on studying the market.
Our data keep on deciding on what segment to push what. That is why this is a dynamic movement. The up and down is, I think, just very dependent on the segment that we are, you know, focusing on. Thank you for your question.
On the CV business, you know, what is the kind of mix we would be comfortable? Because you said, you know, that is more of a lumpy business and because of third-party claims the ratios are much higher. What kind of a mix would we be comfortable on the CV side?
Again, in CV it is not that all CVs have high third party loss ratio. That is what I don't tell you. Right? It's a combination. CV again has a variety of vehicles and a lot of vehicles have low third party loss ratio. Also some vehicles have high third party ratio. It's a combination of which segment are you looking at and how do you want to grow it and how they're performing. There's nothing which is good or bad in the market. I think in all portfolios we have business which to us looks good and we want to service that well. Some businesses which are not right priced right as of now.
Those we look at very keenly to see when the price range comes to the point where we feel it is conducive for right business, we write that business. It will be wrong to say that CV has only high third party loss ratio business.
And, and in term-
Yes, as to what Tapan said, you know, it is very easy in a market to, you know, to say that, you know, CV or other business, whatever, third party business to get very aggressive because, you know, incentives gone up. Historically we have seen in the general insurance industry that kind of cash flow underwriting doesn't work in the long run because third party doing a long-tail risk, it will take some time for the losses on the new book to develop. One has to balance that, and I think Bajaj has a very strong team which looks into all aspects of this in terms of geography, types of fleets, type of trade field and everything. We'll continue to doing what has helped us so far, and we are quite confident that, Bajaj will come back.
In terms of annual mix it would be what? 10%-15% CV business?
In CV and all we don't do that kind of mix as a target.
Oh.
We just do good business what we think. We mix up some. Obviously there will be some good and some bad, but overall, as long as we are doing the right underwriting, we should be able to deliver our profit. The mix will develop according to that.
Right. On the health side, you know, what kind of a contribution do we expect from the government business on the group health side? You know, on the group health side, on the non-government side also, what has been our comfort in terms of claims ratio? Because, you know, this is a business where, you know, you will have lesser marketing costs. What would be our comfort and how do you now manage risk on that side, on the health business?
I think that is too micro a question from an analyst role in terms of how do we look at it. As mentioned earlier, I think business in which we find the pricing comfortable, it is a business because for us our belief is, and I think we've even demonstrated over time in terms of our reinsurance ratio or claim settlement ratio, our belief is that companies with healthy balance sheet are able to service customers very well. That is why we don't want the balance sheet to be spoiled. We look at a track record, and these are IRDAI publicly displayed, you know, data. We have the least reinsurance ratio for quarters together, and I would completely say for a decade now, you know, and one of the best claim settlement ratio, I think.
This is a testimony of the fact that our obsession to our customers has been on the highest. If you look at NPS score also, I think, it'll be among the highest industry has. The issue is that once you write business in which, we feel comfortable in terms of the price, in which we feel that we service it very well, and that's how we build a long-term company. Yeah. To get to the micro detail of what the loss ratio should be, what particular segment should be, I don't think that I would like to answer that in an analyst forum.
Sure. Lastly, from my side, you know, given that the industry is, you know, having a higher combined ratio, I think last quarter it was 118% versus 112-113%. Does that, you know, lead to unsustainable business for most of the players in terms of profitability and cash flows? Is consolidation the way to sustain this business? How, you know, because we've seen a lot of, you know, new age players suffering because of, you know, cash flows or profitability.
Yeah.
Does consolidation happen in the industry directionally? What is our sense?
Tapan, I will start that quickly.
Okay.
You know, that's a good question because, you know, the industry cyclically, globally has gone through many cycles like this. When capital is freely available, when liquidity is strong in the market, I think there is a belief that, you know, there is only one metric to be chased, and that is gross written premium. Unfortunately in this business the risk is open-ended, you know, because the quantum of claims in relation to premium is significantly high. Over time, as the cycles change and capital becomes scarce, the ability to write business, which is losing becomes very difficult. Now, I don't know whether that situation has reached in India or not yet.
Right.
To us, writing business at a loss is not what we as a group in Bajaj have ever done. Therefore, we will watch as the things go by. I think when too many companies make losses and they have to continuously inject capital, at some point one should expect that, you know, some of them may not be able to survive. It is not a good way of running a business. Today, we sit on a solvency, one of the highest in the market, if not the highest, of 349%. This 349% is the lowest capital infused in the business, and that represents the fact that the last 20 years we have been profitable, despite the fact that industry has hardly been profitable in any of these years on the whole.
That is a sort of top level answer to this. Tapan, you want to add anything to this?
Yeah. When you look at the combined ratio moving up, what I understand is the insurance business, not only India, across the world, it's facing a very unique situation, which is high inflation. In the GI business, high inflation hits the business immediately. Why? Because when you price the product, you didn't take into account the inflation which may come up and rise so fast.
Right.
Be it a simple repair of motor vehicle or a health claim, or let's say even a factory is getting, you know, again repaired or rebuilt, the cost of construction, the cost to repair a vehicle or currently, you know, even for hospital, we see a very high inflation building. Now when you look at high inflation at a lot of places, people, you know, revise the cost or the sale price to take care of the inflation cost. For the GI business, I think it has a lag, and that is why when you notice that, you know, the movement of combined ratio is so steep. I think that is why you see this combined moving up.
Now about survival of companies, I think each company has its own strategy in how they look at it. We cannot comment on that. If you look at it a very long period, like Sreeni mentioned, for the industry, which has gone through difficult combined ratio times, we already see a lot of stress for quite a few companies out there. I think they have to figure out their own strategy of how they want to look at it. We are building a company for hundreds of years, so I don't think we are in a hurry to cut corners just for that. We continue to focus on long-term stability and long-term good business for our customers, for our stakeholders in this business.
No, no, absolutely. I think, you know, your philosophy and process and approach to running the business is very clear. This was more of a general industry consolidation view. If, you know, this will accelerate because of the way the combined ratios are. That was.
Yeah, I mean, the combined ratio is not easing. As I told you, the inflation is going to hit it again. When we see quarters coming through, we'll actually see no deterioration happening because the price has to, at the price at which it was built for this inflation, I don't think it was taking into consideration. That is why the industry will see a more difficult, combined ratio. I think it's a very valid question and a very relevant question.
Sure. Lastly, one on, you know, life insurance. What kind of unwind rates do we expect in FY 2023, given that, you know, we are seeing an increase in interest rates across?
Bharat.
Yeah, I'll take that. See, we take our best estimate as of now for a long-term unwind rate is around 8%. As you rightly pointed out, there will always be some moving parts during the year. Having anything like saying by March end what it would be, it'll be difficult because there are a few moving parts in terms of mark-to-market or the reserves which are over and above the normally the statutory liability one has to keep all those plays in. 8% is what you can imagine as a steady-state unwinding rate for us.
Sure. Thank you. Thank you so much. All the best.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Bharat Shah from ASK Investment Managers Limited. Please go ahead, sir.
Hi, everybody. Two questions. One is on the competitive scenario in emerging kind of a picture. Second is more specific question about two of our businesses. Coming to the first one, I think last three years have been kind of a cataclysmic period for want of a better expression. COVID then heightened concern for insurance sensitivity, digital models, tremendous flux and huge infusion of capital. Therefore, we've seen significant number of changes, which have been flowing around competitively. Like we have seen in FinTech, where a lot of technology players are coming but with poor understanding of finance. We are seeing similar insurance technology ambitions burning on the same old tire.
Given all of these, also the fact that digitization is an imperative, so that much like, pure technology without insurance is a very bad business, good insurance without technology will also be a lame duck. Therefore, good mix of the two, I think, is emerging very clearly. While what not to do, I think is becoming increasingly more clear, what are the insights, understandings and strategic priorities for, Bajaj Finserv insurance businesses in terms of what to do and what to achieve and, how to go about it? In other words, the key strategic priorities, given the tumultuous kind of changes which have happened in last 3-4 years.
Thank you, Bharat. I think a very profound question, I must say. In fact, insurance has also undergone a lot of changes. Companies are trying out different models. The way we look at digitization or the way we have achieved what we have is we have digitized significant proportion of the customer experience, the entire chain of underwriting, the chain of the apps with which the distributors work today. A substantial, I think more than 90% of the policies now are issued digitally. This you may say is just, you know, the base, you know, because it has to be done. It is not something that we are doing which others may not do. Going forward, buying insurance on digital means is a question mark actually.
Because we find if you look at health insurance, for example, the products are not comparable across companies. Customers require advice. Even today, I believe a substantial portion, more than two-thirds of the health insurance market is run by agents and not even by banks. In this market, I think both our companies will remain physical. We will continue to invest in our agency and other intermediation channels. At the same time, we will offer the customer in terms of claims, customer experience, servicing, a fairly one-touch experience. Both our insurance companies now are in the process of, you know, just rolling out their new policy admin system because the old systems that are available in the market and which we ourselves were using one of them have become outdated now.
Unless you change the core, you will not have an agile, flexible system which can incorporate the changes that the market demands. This is a very long process. It is much longer for the life business, I must say, because of the, you know, every single policy we have sold pretty much has to be brought into the new system while we have to start with the new business as well. Having said that, in the health business we rolled it out late last year. It is now stabilizing the retail health. We have now launched Motor OD, TP. We will go for the other products, which is motor own damage, and then the commercial line, then group health and all that. We think the bigger problem is not digital transformation.
The bigger problem is that there are a lot of companies coming in which are willing to burn money for an uncertain period of time. We do not know what the long-term gain is for some of them. Maybe they have their own strategies. Maybe they are trying to get market share. For us, the balance between three things are important. First is the quality of service which you give to the customer. In the long run that is sustainable because customers who have good service will continue to be with you. Number two, we want to grow. We want to grow in line with the market, better than the market, but only in the segment that we think there is sustainable profit. Thirdly, we want to enhance the experience for our intermediaries and customers.
The only thing I think last time you pointed out, which is very valid, was that we are not marketing our capabilities enough, which I think both CEOs have taken it well. I would now ask Tapan and then Bharat to maybe comment further on what the individual businesses are and how they are looking at this trend.
No, I think Sreeni, you summed it up so well that, you know, there's not much to add to that. The only thing is that, it's a constant evolution, I think the industry goes through. If I take the industry 20 years back, I think the motor claims settlement used to take 3-4 months, and back then the customer was happy with that also. Today, the motor claims settlement not only cashless, we also have facility in which, you know, when an accident happens within the limited
Yeah. Sorry, I think I somehow was on hold.
Okay.
I'll just continue. As I said, our overall theme has been about sustainable and profitable growth, so it's not always about being tactical in the market. Within that, the few drivers which we always believe and we've been investing into is one on the tech and analytics part. Second is on the product innovations. The third is we wanted to be the choice of distributors in terms of the integration experience, in terms of the processes, in terms of the people we provide them at the ground for all support.
All those has been our focus areas. To drive the overall business, we are also investing into a lot of new engines of growth, whether it is a channel in our channel strategy or whether it is about going to the new market participants like Sreeni mentioned that we recently signed with DBS and CUB. All those are our focus areas, that's where we are.
Now, Bharat Shah, just one more point to add to this. With insurance business, there are two things which will probably guide you towards assessing this question that you asked. One is that, you know, insurance historically follows experience-based pricing. That means, unlike finance and others, where you work on a lot of parameters, you identify the good risk from the bad risk and try to focus more on the good risk. In insurance, you actually write a volume because geography is important. Therefore when you write a volume, you get to know the experience. This is a business you can never be where you write only good business, because if everybody, all your customers don't have claims, they'll stop insuring with you. Therefore, it's a question of mixing good with the bad.
The more volume you write initially, you will be able to then cull out what you don't need, or then using analytics you will continuously refine that portfolio. That is how you manage the risk in insurance. Globally, I think it is still experience-based. Even the catastrophe and the large risks are based on experience. Although there will be some input from external assessment of parameters that drive claims, largely, I think it will be experience-based. This is one thing. The second thing is the incidence of fraud is very high in both these businesses. The amount of benefit one can get for a small amount of premium is very large, which is very attractive for the fraudsters to exploit. Therefore, we are spending a lot more.
More companies have very strong, what we call, loss mitigation and fraud management departments, and we continuously invest in analytics there because we think that is very important. We don't want to have too much of these fraudulent claims affecting the P&L. Even if it's a small percentage, it can actually bite into the profit margin, which are anyway very thin in this business. These are two other things which will drive how we use it. Lastly, you know, even if you acquire a customer digitally, servicing them digitally, you know, there's a long way to go. We have to deal with motor workshops. We have to deal with hospitals. Many of them are not technically equipped to be able to, you know, get paid and settle claims fast.
Although that number is increasing, there's still a long way to go. Lastly, in terms of motor third party claims, it is dealt with by more than 1,000 motor accident tribunals, and it's a legal process which takes kind of quite a long time. These are things even if I acquire customer digitally and I want to do business digitally, I will have to invest in these in the traditional way. I must have people who will build these networks. I will have people who will manage these networks. I will have to have partner management and so many other things along with the technology to support it, to make it efficient. It's a complex matter, and as things evolve we have to be agile and change, and that is the direction that we normally take.
Digital for us does not mean B2C. It just means enhancing customer experience and partner experience. I don't know if I've answered. We have answered your question well or not, but I think off the cuff this is what our thinking is.
No, Sreeni, Tapan, Bharat all have answered it well. It was less of a question. I was seeking more of a assurance and reassurance that our model is not trying to get tempted into following technical paths. I mostly am not worried on people who are ready to burn capital, who have more capital and less ideas. That bouts of insanity happen from time to time. Of course, it is painful for sensible players while capital is being spent loosely because it creates disturbance for some time, but eventually it gets sorted out. It's an irony that business of risk, those who are supposed to underwrite risk are themselves following business models which are seemingly uninsured. I mean, the
Also on a conventional player, you know, who is large player, when suddenly there is a strategic change of the priority, where priority shifts to growth rather than capital efficiency. While I would have thought it is always both and never only one, it put some worries and doubts whether the companies are on the path or not. It is more seeking confirmation and assurance that quality, growth and all together is what we are pursuing and that answers it. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.
Yeah. The second question is more specific. One is about cross-selling and second is about health insurance. I, while I know cross-selling is easier said than done, but Bajaj Finance has shown the way, in the finance business how to use cross-selling as a tool very intelligently, not only to acquire more customers more efficiently with shorter time frames, but with better risk profile and reduce the cost of customer acquisition. I understand, the parallel doesn't follow similarly in insurance, with some specificities of the insurance. I think cross-selling as an idea, somehow doesn't appear whether insurance businesses or FinServ really have it at the top of the mind.
The second one is more specific that an important large conventional opportunity like health, when we don't focus in good time and serious long-term players like you, one would have thought would have carved out a very large activity by now, where we still are seemingly in a catch-up mode and, you know, trying to find our fit rate. I thought on both of these, wanted to understand the mind of the management.
Right. I will take that, the top level first, and then Tapan and Bharat can add. On the health business, you see we are very strong on group health, employer-employee. Unfortunately, that has been a business which always has been subject to pricing because it is an HR cost for companies. Over time, I think it is not that we are either aggressive or not aggressive. It is just that we do business on our terms where we see, for example, in a corporate with employer-employee, we always know what was their claims last year, how many employees they had, how their employee strength is going to grow. We can make a reasonable assessment. With inflation, we know how much it is going to cost.
Now, if somebody is going to bid 30% below that, we obviously won't participate in that. But there are many corporates we are focusing more and more on the service aspect of it. And hopefully our health company will also, as it develops, will be able to deliver some more value onto that. So Tapan. Hello.
Yes. Yeah. Coming to cross-selling, I think last two years there has been a significant focus on both the companies on cross-selling. The problem with general insurance is that a value seeker eventually becomes a price seeker if they do not have the benefit of service.
Number 2, while there are large number of products, a lot of people are not, for example, if you take homes, the only way some amount of home insurance sold in India is only when it is bundled with the home loan. Otherwise, people around us do not buy it. Over time, hopefully it will become more important for people to buy home insurance because something happens to the house or anything, then the loan and other things will get repaid or they'll have at least the losses recouped. There are many things like this. You know, we have launched pet insurance. The products are available now, but selling them is not that easy because people aren't, as Tapan said, getting up every day morning saying that I want to buy some insurance. Cross-selling is on.
In BALIC we are running a loyalty program where we are trying to now deliver, but that will take a few more months before it is rolled out fully, because it requires a lot of capabilities to be built in the company. The analytics teams in both companies are now well established. They are working on a lot of data and we will try to bring that. In BALIC, again, getting the customer and keeping them was itself used to be a challenge for the industry. Now we are keeping them with a higher persistency and all that. The next step is obviously to ensure that they also give us more of their future savings. From a pure opportunity perspective, what you said is right.
Health is a population business, and therefore over the next 15-20 years India will offer tremendous growth. In terms of life insurance, even nominal rate of GDP growth, 10%-12%, the amount of savings pool coming into the industry is going to be huge. The opportunity is huge. The market is very competitive. Everybody is trying to take other people's share. Hopefully as a strong company with both companies generating capital, we have the wherewithal to survive it. That's all I can say at the top of the mind. Tapan, are you there? Bharat, would you like to take it?
Yeah, I'm there, Sreeni.
Yeah. Go on.
If you look at it, you know, in the general space, we are a big health insurers. I think in the SAHI space, SAHI have done well in terms of penetration on health. Now they had an arbitrage or they have an arbitrage in terms of the number of agent they can acquire without training. Any agent can become SAHI agent. That is one of the reasons SAHI, I think, did much better than general insurance company. It's not that we are trying to get a free ride. We see that we are a major health insurance player in the Indian market as it is. What we have been saying is that we want to scale it much further. We want to become the dominant player, including the SAHI players as time progresses, you know.
The arbitrage which may be there in acquiring agents, but, that is perfectly fine. We have a massive distribution network and how do we build on that? That is what we have been saying. First and foremost, I think the point is that we already are big player in health insurance space, and, we would be, scaling it up for further taking it up. I think that is how we look at it. Now if you look at health also, with all this, the entire industry working on, the entire total population covered would be just 14-15 crores of, you know, the number of policy. In fact, the government health insurance scheme covers about 30 crore Indians which will be there, no? There is 70-odd crores which is the missing middle.
I think so the opportunity for growing health is huge. The way we look at it and how do we look at handling the missing middle, how do you put it together? That is what we have been saying. I think it should not be misconstrued as that we are still trying to get our feet wet. No, we are firmly into it. We are a large prominent player into the market, and we see a huge opportunity in the Indian market context in terms of the health insurance can be there. That is what we are working on to the point. Cross-sell again, like Sreeni actually summed it up. That is something which I would say when you look around it is not about.
That is why when compared different industries, it's like an apple and orange comparison. It gives a wrong perspective. You should compare within the industry. Let's look at the general insurance industry across the world. Let's say we look at the financial, we heard about, you know, the Wells Fargo story. We heard of all the stories across the world of cross-sell being there. But has anybody heard about stories like this in general insurance space across the world or anywhere in the world, no? Fundamentally, the way we look at cross-sell will be very different from the way a financial services cross-sell would be happening. I think that is where the stories also come up. It is again because of the way customers want to see this category and how they look at it.
I think more than cross-sell, what we should look at is that are we covering the customer for his entire protection, which I've always believed strongly that a customer should have a good health insurance, a good home insurance, a good PA cover, a good cyber liability cover on a retail basis, no? In terms of what is a good travel insurance cover, you know. These don't cost much. I think five or six covers a customer should have. The obsession of the company is that when somebody's a customer, are we working hard enough to have a complete protection for the customer after making him or her aware? I think that is our approach we take. That obviously in a very, I think, simple term can be called cross-sell.
I think our endeavor is to keep on doing that because we are obsessed about a customer, and we should see that something goes wrong with the customer, we should have insured the customer and she should not be left uninsured. That is what the philosophy of the company is pushing. No, but thank you for the question. It's a very, very nice question.
Thank you. Thank you, Tapan. Thank you, Sreeni. I think you covered most of the things. With respect to BALIC, I think again, we have to look at two things. One is the upsell part and the other is the cross-sell part. BALIC in terms of upsell has been, I think, covering good ground. We are already seeing almost like 20% of new business comes through upsells. No, that is not specific to the Bajaj Group per se, but all our existing customers where we can further go back and sell them a next policy. To that extent, upsell is working fine. From a cross-sell perspective, see, this has always been an opportunity.
If I specifically talk about, say, BFL customer base, I think numbers are not as relevant as in terms of percentage to the business. Has this been improving year on year? The answer is yes. Is there a group business with them is improving year on year on a strong growth? The answer is yes. Given this a small base and a large opportunity, have we really penetrated enough in that? Maybe it is still a journey which we are working on, and there are a lot of new initiatives which we have taken. All in all, cross-sell within group is a further opportunity is there? The answer is yes. Otherwise on the upsell, is BALIC there? The answer is also yes. That's where I will stop and happy to take any further question on that note.
Sure. Thank you. Wish all of you the very best. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in the conference, please limit yourselves to two questions per participant. Should you have a follow-up question, we will request you to rejoin the queue. Next question is on the line of Dhaval from DSP. Please go ahead, sir.
Hello, am I audible?
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. You know, I had three questions. First was relating to in Bajaj, specifically on all three of them. The first one is relating to OpEx. You know, like, I think the group is and the company is making you know, several investments on distribution and technology. Just you know, curious to understand as we progress into the year, how we think about OpEx and you know, OpEx growth. And the second question is relating to profitability. At a high level in Bajaj, would you expect you know, next couple of years, revenue growth like premium growth and profit growth to be broadly similar?
There could be, you know, like, investments upfront and benefits could come later, which means that profit growth will lag, you know, premium growth. The third question is more, you know, just sort of more product specific strategy. You know, we've seen in the industry this embedded, you know, insurance business sort of pick up, be it trip insurance, mobile insurance, et cetera. All those categories have picked up. I just wanted to understand, you know, we have a very strong small ticket casualty insurance business. Also, you know, technology is sort of one of the key, you know, pillars in this embedded insurance business.
I just wanted to understand how we think about this business, and, is there a, you know, sort of, long-term game plan around, you know, sort of is it profitable and is there a long-term, game plan in this space? Yeah, those were the three questions. Thanks.
Yeah, broadly on the casualty. See, sachet is a good way to acquire a customer, but then the industry has to be prepared and the customer has to be prepared to expand that sachet product into long-term indemnity products. The insurance is not like some other services where there is a trigger, right? You know, I buy a home, so I'll take a home loan, and they've taken a home loan, then the company comes after me to collect the money. Insurance is a journey, and in the journey they will of course buy a product, any product they can buy, but later on usually it is motor. Now some may enter through sachet, and over time, as awareness increases, they will buy more and more products.
The companies which are strong and who have the best product range and the best customer service hopefully will be in a better position to attract those customers. It is possible that one customer can have multiple products with multiple insurers, and there's nothing which prevents them from doing that. This largely remains. You know, you cannot build a business on sachet unless you are willing to burn a lot of capital because it does not give you the risk reward in terms of profitability is not there in that business. The other question on OpEx and to add to what I said, I would leave it to Raman and Tapan to handle.
I'll take the one on OpEx, Sreeni. Dhaval, if you recall in the past also we've highlighted that, you know, our OpEx ratio over the last few years had gone a little higher and the last two years I think we did a lot of consolidation. If you look at the OpEx expense ratios, actually they've been coming off quarter-on-quarter for, I'd say, over two and a half years now. Like I mentioned in the last call also, there are investments which we had held back because of the pandemic. I think now that the pandemic is behind us, we plan to, you know, scale up geographically on our distribution front, also in terms of technology. All of this is actually now being invested into.
You know, just to give you some numbers, our peak headcount used to be about 12.5-13,000 people, and during the course of the pandemic, we actually scaled it down and we're down to about 8.5-9,000 people. Given that the pandemic is behind us, now we'll start scaling the manpower front. Plus we've also, like Sreeni mentioned earlier, we're investing a lot in technology and with this massive transformation going on on the policy admin side. We are running two systems parallelly, you know, our old policy admin system and the new one. Another 2 years I think this parallel run and also doing a hybrid of the cloud and the on-site, this will add to some amount of cost.
you know, for at least 6-8 quarters from now, I believe that the investments will add to the cost. Productivity may or may not shape up the way we want it, so that's just a word of caution on the expense piece.
We'll answer your question, Dhaval.
Any comment on the profit, you know, growth versus sort of premium growth? Any broad high-level comments on?
Broadly what happens is when you make these investments, if they are fixed cost investments, then operating leverage will take time to develop. You first invest, then you get the business, and in insurance the premium gets accounted over 12 months, so it takes a longer time to recognize the revenue while the claims and other costs come up front. There will be a cycle. However, we'll have to balance that with our need to grow the profit as well as the opportunity that is there, the profit that the new business will give us. That may take a couple of years to evolve. The one good positive sign is that over the next 2-3 years, it seems like the investment yields are going up. That should provide some cushion. See, underwriting side, there are pressures of inflation, as Tapan pointed out.
This will balance out. I think we have a very rigorous long-term planning process across our group, and we also have backed it up with a very strong annual operating plan, which runs a series of projects across the companies. Hopefully that is the ability to build capability. Sometimes you have to make some investments up front. Luckily, we are in a good position that we are generating capital. We do have money to invest, but we have to see how the market goes.
Got it. Thanks, Sreeni. Thank you for sharing the additional disclosure in Finserv Markets and Bajaj Finserv Health. Really useful. Just one small question on Bajaj Finserv Health. If you could broadly lay some context of how much Bajaj Finance contributes to the current business in terms of be it the user base or you know paying user. I mean, some way of explaining how much is own organic effort and how much comes from one of the.
We don't have the exact number and we're not disclosing that. Bajaj Finance is selling health cards along with its loans. However, the big thing for them is that the health card, when people want to use the service of doctors or, diagnostic centers and all, they need Bajaj Finserv Health to provide that service. There is a base cost and there is a loading on that. On the OPD side, the B2C product that we sell also has a B2B2C, but a lot of it is done by Bajaj Finance. They do a lot of direct business also through their digital marketing. In addition, they also offer the service, the health plan or the diagnostic service by Bajaj Finserv Health. They will be investing.
We are also doing some other pilots on some other areas, and we hope there is enough opportunity there as well outside of illness. They will be focusing more on wellness. We think, the business is scaling up quite well. We have about 100,000 doctors now, and the number of customers using our app is also increasing. Our apps are highly rated on, the Play Store. We are quite confident. It's a growing ecosystem. We are, one partner for the National Digital Health Mission. We are there. I think whether the customer is ready or not, we are helping them get ready, you know. I think we are seeing the initial thing of people are liking it.
Understood. Thanks and all the best. Thank you.
Yeah.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Sanketh Godha from Spark Capital. Please go ahead, sir.
Yes. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, just wanted to understand the motor only part little better, given we have reported loss ratio, which is probably the highest we have reported in many quarters. You alluded to the point that it is inflation. Just wanted to know whether we are able to do a price correction, because inflation is now real, and our competition is not allowing it to take a price hike. Therefore, from full year point of view, should we see these numbers to remain at these levels? That's on motor only.
Similarly on TP, you alluded to the point that we need little reserves or we have been conservative. How do you see this just full year to play out this 18% loss issue in motor TP to clear some. That, that's all on that. I have a couple of questions on health, which I can ask after you answer this.
First, I think at the top level, I think you are seeing what is happening in airports across the world in terms of their ability to handle the, what do you call, the pent-up demand of people wanting to travel. Somewhat, I think motor is like that. Having said that, you know, when the claims happen in motor, it's not of the current book that you are writing, but it's always of the past book. When there has been a period when the auto sales have been down, you'll find that later on, a year or two down the line, you have higher claims because the premiums you earned were not sufficient to cover that. This is cyclical. As auto sales pick up overall, we think this will get evened out.
Many cities, I think metro work is going on, causing traffic chaos.
Call is now being recorded.
That is another factor, that if a number of cars on the road and the roads are not expanding every day, it's obviously causing some extra frequency. In terms of pricing, in motor is an open pricing. You know, it's not like there is a fixed price, and it depends on the segment you want to target, the intermediary premium you are dealing with, and how you can get the better price. Tapan, would you like to add to that?
No, I think what you said, Sreeni, is the answer. See, if you look at it, and this is visible to everybody, if you go out on the street today, you see more motor vehicle on the street, on highways compared to even pre-COVID time also. So the frequency of claims obviously goes up because the more vehicles that hit the road, there would be. Coupled with frequency, you also have severity increase because of inflation. You know, these two would play out. Now, is this a permanent phenomena or will it, you know, over time balance out is what the question should be in terms of because that is what will determine how the loss issues shall move, and is it a short-term phenomena.
Now for the next at least a couple of quarters, this would play out because, you know, as Sreeni also mentioned, the pricing is on the past assumptions, you know.
Mm-hmm.
This pricing frequency and inflation is not something somebody has predicted. It will be so like if it just jumped so high, you know. Obviously this will take a couple of quarters before it can correct itself, you know, and the market has it to give this. We should be there to answer your question of do you see immediate correction? No. It takes some time before the correction would happen on that. Does the phenomena remain like this? Does it even out? You know, are the questions that have to be answered to get the pricing right as it goes this further.
Got it. On motor TP side, sir, does the reserve which you have additionally created will be correct also?
If you look at, you know, the reserving happens on the assumption of how the frequency is and how the settlement is happening. On both, you know, if you look at inflation in the TP settlement also, and if you look at inflation also, if you can see also, it has increased there also. So as a company, I think we are very careful. Look at also when we publish our triangle as we call it, you always see that we have released it. So we are very-
The person you are speaking with has put your call on hold. Please stay on the line.
Hello? Hello?
No, I think, you know, the hold button must have got pressed by you because could not speak. Yeah. Coming to your point, even TP also, you see increase in frequency, and you see that. As a company, and that is why we publish these triangles also. You always see there will be reserve release. This shows that we are very, you know, clear in terms of our reserving, and it's a very good reserving methodology that we follow at all point of time. When you see this happen, we obviously strengthen it. No? We feel that in times to come, the TP would starts to be strengthened again. Let us say over time, these reserves, when it drops, then obviously, you know, there would be a release again in terms of all this.
It's always better to be cautious in reserving than to, you know, go overboard on reserving. That's what we believe.
Got it, sir. On Bajaj Life, just a couple of housekeeping questions. Just wanted to understand how much Axis Bank would have contributed to the total premium growth, or how much it contributed to the individual business unit in the current year, in the current quarter rather. Secondly, is that protection business still because all other products have done very well. The protection business still has declined. How do you feel, especially the original protection, and so how do you see that to play out going ahead? Finally on margins, I just wanted to understand the 11.11% margin in the current quarter.
Can we expect the full year to be closer to 20%, given the product mix and the cost overall issues might be analyzed by the end of the full year?
Yeah. Thank you, Sanketh. I'll take the questions in the order.
Yeah.
Your first question was about the Axis Bank contribution. See, if you know that what has happened is Axis Bank branch banking, we started sometime last year, second half. Obviously this first half it will have some contribution effect in terms of fees not being there from our branch banking. We were always in the liability fee for the last two and a half year. With that, for the time being, the share of Axis Bank in our business is around 25%. That's for the first quarter only. Your second question was on the protection. See, protection as you would have seen for everyone, the protection business either in absolute or as a percentage has come down.
If you look at on a sequential basis, our protection mix is there and thereabout. Rather it has just marginally up only, but only a few basis points. What is happening in the overall protection space, as you know that people are now a little bit more calibrated as to how they are taking. Companies are undergoing a lot of underwriting processes change given what has happened within the past and the reinsurer arrangement is changing. We are also going with a very calibrated approach in terms of how we want to take the risk on the books, whether it is strengthening the underwriting practices or the reinsurer pricing and all. What we have also done, we have relaunched another product with a lot more new features and a better underwriting process.
I hope as the market grows up back on the protection business, our share is expected to be improving on a quarter-on-quarter basis. That's on the protection side. 30-year endowment, which is at 11% for the quarter as we never provide any forward-looking guidance on the full year basis. S. Sreenivasan in the opening remark also mentioned that having a quarter one with a double-digit number, I think it's a good start. Last year our full year number was around 14.2%. I think we are on the right trajectory. Lot many things depends on how the year ends in terms of growth, product mix, what happens to protection, how the non-par saving is playing in, so and the overall business cost and all.
There's no forward-looking number per se, but as I mentioned, we are on the right track, so hopefully we'll have a good year by the time we reach March. I hope that.
Got it, Bharat. Thanks for the answers.
Perfect.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Ashish Sharma from ENAM Asset Management. Please go ahead, sir.
Yeah, hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Just this one point on, I mean, first of all, again congratulating you for sharing this data on Bajaj Markets and Bajaj Finserv Health. Just wondering in terms of in your assessment the data, I mean, any metric you are tracking, is the performance better than what your expectations were? Or, I mean, is there further headroom for the metrics to sort of grow? One would be on that, and second would be on in terms of investments. We've already infused around INR 807 crore in Bajaj Markets.
I mean, do we further need to invest in the ecosystem? That will be the second question, sir.
Yeah. See, it is an evolving business. We have to look at it like a startup, right?
Yeah.
When you look at it like that, I think the companies have done remarkably well. They're well and better than our plan. If you look at Finserv Markets, for example, which is the older of the two.
Yeah.
You can see the metrics are all shaping up quite well. You know, we have organic visits, which is about 5 million customers. We have INR 104 crores of revenue, which is the revenue driver. The registrations are going up. We have 1.3 million app registrations, and we have 143,000 transacting customers. Obviously, as the kind of variety of products that is from high ticket to low ticket, obviously they will have to focus on these metrics in improving these. From a capital perspective, we think that they are good till FY 2024.
After that, if the business model scales up further and we reach our goals, there is a possibility that FY 25 on the existing business at least we will start cash breakeven. These are goals. I'm not saying that we'll reach there or not. There is a lot of vacancy. We have a long way ahead. Incremental capital requirement we think will be less. However, if growth is significantly higher than what we anticipate, clearly we need to continue to create capability. A lot of the investment we do is largely on people and technology required at the back end to drive a digital business like this, and in building the network of partners and expanding the product range that we offer. We'll continue to focus on that.
As a business, I think the path is clear for us.
Okay. So just clarifying, we have given transacting customers and visits. First of all, this is only a app platform, right?
Yes, yes.
And, and so-
app and BALIC
...INR 1.3 million, which you just mentioned.
That's right. That's right.
Okay. Okay.
People have downloaded the app. Yeah.
Okay, great. Fine, sir. Just lastly, I mean, I think we've touched a lot or discussed a lot on the combined ratio part. I mean, based on what we have sort of mentioned, I mean, for the next couple of quarters, I mean, the combined ratio even for BALIC when usually, I mean, in the history we've always sort of have seen that combined ratio had remained below 100%. Given the competitive intensity even for BALIC, next couple of quarters, I mean, the combined ratio above 100%, I mean, is that what we are guiding, I mean, given the challenging environment?
We are not giving any guidance. We don't do that. All we are saying is that, yes, this quarter we have grown quite well. We have earned premium has grown only 2%. On the one side, whatever premium we have booked till now will get earned over the next few quarters. At the same time, we'll continue to grow, and as Raman said, we'll also be continuing to make investments in expanding distribution, technology, analytics and all that. There will be some element of cost as an investment. The claims, we have already discussed at length. There is an element of uncertainty how they will pan out. As they all come, the combined ratio is a result of all that.
Our focus is on continuing to do what we do well, underwrite well, do good business, return well, invest the cash flows and earn return on that. We'll continue to do that, and I hope that as things turn out we will be agile enough to.
Agree
Do that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That is helpful. That's helpful.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Right. I think we'll take just one more question. We've already overshot the time.
Thank you. The last question is from the line of Anand Bhavnani from White Oak Capital. Please go ahead, sir.
Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, just wondering, for our Bajaj Markets, do you have, you know, any specific numbers as targets like, for, you know, Bajaj Finance equivalent we had some targets the other day shared. For Markets, do we have any such targets for the full year or coming quarter?
It's an emerging business and whatever targets we put can go out of the way. We don't actually give targets for any of our company. Bajaj Finance does that sometimes as a general guide as to the range at which they would like to operate. We are showing the numbers, and we will continue showing those numbers every quarter. Let us see how it goes. We have explained what we want to do in one slide, and we have given the key metrics that we think are to be tracked for both our businesses and as we go along. I think the revenue is an important factor to generate INR 9.46 crores of revenue.
I mean, whatever that revenue is on INR 9.46, but we are generating good revenue from both the companies, and that's very important for a startup.
Noted. Noted. Sir, secondly, on the health card, how many health cards would have we kind of sold in the quarter, and what percentage would have been from Bajaj Finance?
Customers is that only, not paying customers.
All the transacting customers have-
services. Yeah.
What percentage would have been through Bajaj? We have 493 thousand.
That we don't know. I mean, a lot of it will be through Bajaj Finance, but Bajaj Finance is only a distributor. You know, ultimately the services is a card you sell today, but they are the ones that provide the service, right?
Yeah.
We won't be selling cards and that is where the capability is of Bajaj Finserv Health.
Noted. Noted. All the best. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Due to time constraints, we have reached the end of question and answer session. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Anuj Narula for closing comments.
Thank you. On behalf of JM Financial, I would like to thank Mr. Chugh sir, the senior management team of the insurance businesses and all participants who have joined us on the call today. Thank you and have a good day.
Thank you all.
Thank you. On behalf of JM Financial, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.
Thank you.