Q4 18/19

May 17, 2019

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Bajaj Finserv Q4 FY twenty nineteen Earnings Conference Call hosted by GM Financial Securities Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in a listen only mode. And there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Bani Pakshi from JM Financial Securities Limited. Thank you, and over to you, Ms. Pakshi. Thank you. Good morning, everybody, and welcome to Bajaj Finsar's earnings call to discuss the fourth quarter FY 'nineteen results. To discuss the same, we have on the call Mr. S. Srinivasan, CFO, Bajaj Finsar mister Tapan Singhal, CEO, Bajaj General Insurance mister Million Chaudhary, CFO, Bajaj Allianz General Insurance mister Taran Chuk, CEO, Bajaj Allianz Life Insurance and mister Savantip Singh Sahani, CFO, Bajaj Allianz Life Insurance. May I request mister Srinivasan to take us through the financial highlights, post which we can open the call for q and a session. Over to you, sir. As usual, it's our pleasure to have all of you, for the conference call. In this conference call, we will be discussing the results of, q four of FY nineteen for Bajaj Finserv, and for the full year ended thirty first March two thousand nineteen. As usual, Bajaj Finance has already had its call yesterday. So as usual, we would be concentrating more on the insurance operations of Bajaj Finance General and Bajaj Finance Life, which are the other major contributors to the consolidated results. However, if there are any high level questions on the Rajat's finance, we'd be glad to take that as well. The status of Allianz in our insurance companies remains the same as of the end of the previous quarter, and there is no change there. And any statement that may look like forward looking statements are just estimates and do not constitute an assurance or indication of future performance. Coming to the financial results for the year ended thirty first March twenty nineteen, With the first year, we have, reported the full year results on Ind AS. Bajaj Finserv, and Bajaj Finance, including its subsidiary, Bajaj Housing Finance Limited are under Ind AS. The insurance company's standalone results are not under India because they are it is not yet applicable to them. However, for the purpose of consolidation, they do give us in that compliant figures. Therefore, the consolidated numbers are compliant with Indian accounting standards and the previous year figures are also comparable. Coming to the highlights of the quarter, they're already in the press release and we have put up our investor presentation on our website as well, which I hope all of you would have seen. It has been a very good quarter for us, 32% growth in profit, 44% growth in revenue. Bajaj Finance profits are up 57%. The GI business profit is down INR 83 crores as against INR 187 crores in Q4 of last year. And life insurance profit after tax is also down INR 112 versus INR 171. In terms of Badaj Finance, the total income is up 52% in Q4, the profit after tax up 57%, the AUM is up 41% and the net NPA as per the extent of the prudential norms and provision as per expected credit loss, which is required under in the AS, is 63 basis points, 0.60%. Coming to Badgic, it has been a very good year quarter for us for in terms of growth. Our overall growth during the quarter is 23% in GWP. And even if you exclude the crop business, which we did a bit of during the Ravi season, our JWP has grown by 17%, doing well above the market. The underwriting result was a loss of $1.46 crores, the first time we are reporting underwriting result in a few quarters, and you may be wondering why. It is primarily due to three reasons. One is the provisioning for crop insurance in ruby season. And secondly, investments in technology. Over the next couple of years, we will be investing deeply in technology, a, to revamp our core insurance module and also to support our data warehouse and analytics teams. And thirdly, in terms of bank assurance, you may be aware that we have a considerable number of bank assurance tie ups, very large banks, almost many of them are tied up with us. We have signed up with Citibank recently as well as Central Bank apart from HDFC Bank, Anra Bank, PNB to name a few. Altogether, we have about 60 bank assurance corporate agents in our portfolio. But because of this, these require upfront investments both in terms of technology and manpower. And we are hoping that over the next two to three years, they will be drivers of growth as well as profitability. For the full year, the impact of Kerala Plus finally has turned out to be INR50 crores, which is reflected in the FY 2019 results. Overall, we are quite satisfied with the performance of Badget, and we are looking forward to a very strong performance in the next year. In terms of Bajaj Aliyan's life insurance company, we have seen all the levers of business which we were driving in the transformation program we started a few years ago working in favor of the company. The product mix has become very sustainable. We have now a sixtyforty product mix for the year, 60% unit and 40% traditional. And what is interesting is that when in the second half of this year, the growth of the bank sponsored insurance companies has been only 10%, which means that those who are heavily dependent on ULIP did have some problem with growth because the market conditions are not conducive for further investment in units over the last few months. However, our balanced product mix did help us in driving substantial growth. Our rated individual business premium, which is our primary tracking metric, was up 45% in q four, which is one of the highest growth rates in the market. Our renewal premium continues to grow. We grew it 15% in the quarter, and overall GWP again was higher by 23%. However, the profit after tax for the quarter was down at 112 crores versus a 171 crores, primary reason being the business strain due to strong growth, but it was also affected by additional provision of 40 crores against expected losses from impairment of investments. In terms of investment in ILFS, both companies are provided 100% of their exposure. The Life Company is about INR 126 crores on the shareholders' account, and Badgic is about 49 crores. Coming to new business value, which we have put up in our, presentation on the website, we have seen, very good growth in our margins and new business value. Our new business value is up from 224 crores to $3,222 crores to 347 crores. It's an increase of almost 50%. Our margins before overruns have gone up from 12.5% to 15.6%. And even after overruns, we have a positive margin of 7%, the first time in a few years that we are reporting a positive net margin. Our EV has shown reasonably good growth and stands at a shade under INR 13,000 now. I will now open the floor for questions and answers. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question session. Participants are requested to use handsets The first question is from the line of Daval Gara from DST Mutual Fund. Just a few questions. Firstly, could you break down the combined ratio for the full year in Magic from 92.3% to 96% ex the flood losses? How much came from loss ratio amongst major segments? And how much is related to the OpEx increase that you talked about, the investment in tech, etcetera, how much has contributed to that? Second question was on the guidance on combined ratio. How do you see a combined ratio moving into FY twenty given the pricing environment in motor DP and other segments? What is your thought process on combined ratio? Then I have question on Balik, but and I'll just wait for the reply on Balik questions. Okay. I will let Tapan take this question. Tapan? Yeah. So if you look at the combined issue breakup, predominantly for the loss issues, other than the increase in, I believe, which is towards the fourth quarter, for the year, our loss ratio was comparable and a bit lower also in some segments, and we do think it was higher. But the lower total equivalent or a bit lower than what it was last year. The basic thing in the mind issue is for two reasons. One, like Srini mentioned, our investment in technology and our investment in manpower. So look at our, overall expense ratio is higher compared to, the peers which would have been there in the recent time. We have investment issues there. So that is the break of the combined ratio. For the next year, if you look at the, you know, TP increase, so we rightly mentioned about increase of our loss issues there. It will happen because inflation in third party is there, and the TP is not there. But the limit has mentioned as of now. So we are hopeful that maybe in India, they may give some light, but let us see how it comes up. Minus that, I think if I look at the market, the correction will happen. And the interesting part is if you look at the market combined ratio, last year, there were a 113, and the last result that we had of the market already crossed 120%. So market demand, they should do it by over 7%, you know, in this year, which is there. So the prices other than fire, which has hardened a bit, that is due to GIC. The rest in terms of motor, as you rightly said, the PP now increase would lead to some deterioration in the loss ratio. But overall, I don't see major shifts happening last year, either an increase of property or deterioration of loss ratio for industry. Yes. To what Tapan said, you see Moto TP, I think we have a significant I mean, we have a fairly good loss ratio as compared to the majority of the players in the market. So our ability to withstand the pricing pressure due to the idea not increasing the prices for this year is relatively better than the market. So we think we are well poised and lot of the investments in manpower will help us especially in the Bank Assurance channel. As I have said before, the Bankcard channel is a growth engine because we have so many tie ups and we are starting with practically zero base next year. The growth rate, we are very hopeful, will be very high. We as a proportion of our total mix, Bank Assurance will grow higher. It is about 12% now. We expect that will go up. Thirdly, Bank Assurance gives us considerable amount of non motor business. Almost 75% of the business from Bank Assurance is proper small property, health, and other personal lines of business. So it can be a growth come profitability engine, and it's a very powerful engine. We are very hopeful about Bank Assurance delivering, helping us deliver continue to deliver superior combined ratios as we move forward. And just lastly, on the crop business, what is your thought process? And second, how much is the pricing sort of improved or deteriorated if you sort of look at premium per acre just versus 2018 last year versus this year? Just some thoughts around that. Okay. Yeah. So if you look at top insurance, this year in the first half, we did not write much because we saw the deterioration in the price which is there. In second, mean, Ravi was more stable, and that's why he wrote. But, unfortunately, Ravi had a bad year. Past years was good. When you look at crop business, you've never seen it in a yearly basis. It has to should be seen in a four or five year cycle basis. The cycle is good. The cycle is bad, but the whole in the four or five year cycle, it has been really good for the industry. And that's why when you put it together, you can see that. Like, all of the was very good. The Ravi deteriorated, which is good. So on on crop, I think we always try to position ourselves for on the price that it feels right. We neither go over it nor we go under it. It is more or less comparable to our overall market share for the industry, and that is what it is. We send the crop for which we notice a bit less than our market share, but that is a conscious call that we take. And we these are big lines of business, crop or we can't help. So we always try to, you know, Like, for all our other principles of business that we do, we try to underwrite from a perspective that it is good for the company, and we try to serve the farmers and others on a very proactive basis. So we'll continue with this strategy of ours. And overall pricing is better or worse this year? So if you look at from last year perspective, it has gone down a bit, but that is more also because the year before that was good. So as said, the crop issue has to be little cycle of three to four years. So when you have a good year, the price does come down the next year. When your value, the price goes up the next year. That is how it gets done. Understood. Understood. And just lastly on Balik, if you could just give some more details on the protection business between individual group group credit protect and group term GTI? And and then I have a follow-up on, you know, profitability. How do you see given that we've come to positive territory on V and V post cost, what's the thought process on margin over the next two, three years based on product mix, persistency, etcetera? See, I'll broadly take that question. We are very positive on the profitability of the Life business because the business the renewal book is building up quite strongly, and some of the new business strain that we invested in the last couple of years should help us improve the margins as we go forward. There is a fine tactical play on the product mix. It is not just about unit versus power versus non power, but also within non power, whether risk versus protection. And that is something we tactically look at every quarter, every year. But having said that, I will let, Tarun and Raman handle the question on what is the exact proportion of the protection and the other question that you asked. Tarun here. It's a pinpointed question. But on group risk, let me just tell you that we've had a far significant growth this last year. Last quarter, 32% and for the year, 48% growth. Core all as per our percentage of business in group protection, we see 7% of our ASP. In terms of the retail protection, we've spent whole of the last couple of years to sort out our claim handling and mortality ratios, which are now looking quite strong. And now we feel confident that we should start entering into the retail life as well. Lots of things normally are required in terms of systems we put in place, which are now in place. We will therefore increase our presence in the retail risk as we go ahead in the coming year. We did, I would say, dabble a little bit with health risk, and we've had a fine start there. But there is, of course, a lot more to be done on the retail risk side. In terms of the NPM, we've as Srini said, we've turned into positive territory after a few years now, so at 7% approximately. This we just see in the positive trajectory given the product mix now And the bigger impact on the profitability at this juncture, not just coming from the product mix, but also the channel mix, where about three years back, agencies to be as high as 92%. But now we see a significant growth in non agency channels. So our agency continues to grow. We're still at 69% now, and the rest of the channels have grown by a healthy upwards of 80% for our institutional business, which is bank assurance and the proprietary sales, which is really a volume based direct sales business, offline business, that these two growth engines have granted these are far more low cost, far lower cost than agency. So, sir, thanks thanks, Arun. Just if you could share the number, absolute premium from protection and just break it down into individual and group, that would be very useful. So what can you give that? So individual, we hardly do any business. But on group side, we've done about 1,450 crores in the year. This new business? Yeah. New business. Okay. And largely Credit Protect? Yeah. Largely credit protect. And JPL as well. Gautam as well. Right? A big pro proportion is credit protect. Okay. And just really just one request. We has a very good disclosure in their presentation. If you could add on the, general insurance side as well, loss ratios across segments, since the public disclosures come a little late, that would be very useful. If we are considering that, we'll probably do it next year. The IRD has already come out with some white paper on additional disclosures including reserving triangles. There is some elements there which are not consistent. So we will wait for the final guideline to come, and we think we will be able to start doing that sometime next year. Great. Thanks. Thanks, Rene, and all the best. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Divanj Nagothia from Securities Investments Management. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. My question was mainly related to general insurance, please. So our equity exposure of the investment that you do, what would that be currently? On general insurance. Yeah. On general insurance. That is correct. And then how much will that be about 5 percent? 6 percent. 6% of our portfolio. Okay. We have gradually increasing equity exposure because in general insurance, as you know, we are focusing more on cash flow generation, investing prudently. But over time, we want to gradually increase exposure because it's, like, a permanent part of our portfolio. It is not something that, you know, we can keep changing dramatically. Mhmm. So we'll gradually keep increasing it. As we build more solvency, we'll keep increasing it. So because the regulation, the water needs around 40 to 50% of the investments we can make in equity and No. No. That's 5% for GI business. Okay. But within that, see, causes more volatility in your p and l. Mhmm. And if you see the components of PBT, I will divide it into sustain I mean, recurring and nonrecurring. The recurring profits are your underwriting profit. Mhmm. Within that, how much is coming from reinsurance commission and how much is coming from core retention. Mhmm. The regular in interest and dividend income, which is recurring. Mhmm. And the third is your profit on sale of assets because we don't mark to market. You can play around like the public sector companies have been doing for years. Okay. If you see the proportion of the recurring sources, which is underwriting profit. Mhmm. And the investment income, we would be one on the highest contributor to the PBT. So that's been one of the cornerstones of Badget's sustainability over the number of years in terms of profitability. Mhmm. We continue to maintain that. Even the dependence on reinsurance commission as PBT for us is lower than many of our peers. Mhmm. Okay. So what would be the current strategy? Of course, we we will include, but any time lines, like, to what exposure, we we are very comfortable with. Yeah. In the initial stage, are looking at, 10%. However, in the immediate future, I cannot say because a lot of uncertainties in the market. This is a call the investment team will take as to how and when they want to increase the exposure, and we will do that gradually. And, sir, our next question was related to our motor insurance, please. So what would be the segment mix within CVPV and two wheelers? Milan, can you take that? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I think in terms of the overall mix Yeah. Of the total motor business at first? Exactly. Okay. Around 8% comes from two wheelers. Okay. Around 45% from four wheelers. Okay. Alright. Thanks. The 1% from commercial vehicle. Okay. And the remaining 6% comes from the other lines of business within motor, like the agriculture, tractors and other things. Okay. So, sir, in in a motor insurance, generally through some channels that we figure out that commercial vehicle as a piece has more loss ratio Yeah. As compared to other segments. If if if that I'll take that. Is the right interpretation? Or Okay. I'll I'll take that. See, to generally generalize and say that, no, this is more or so sure in the other. Maybe yes. But if you break it up, it's not the case. You have lot of good profit pools in commercial vehicles also. Mhmm. And which gives us a chance to better return than Mhmm. A private car would. Mhmm. Thanks to. Mhmm. So I think it's a very vast segment. If you look at commercial vehicle compared to and the reflection that we have in our books is mostly reflection of how the market would be, you know, in terms of two wheeler four wheeler commercial living for the overall own damage to you. Mhmm. We'll be a bit underweight because of our brand license conflict. Yes. Yes. Our tool of penetration within Honda and others is much lower. And commercial and private cars will be a bit overweight, and that's how we balance our entire motor portfolio for our business in line with the market. Mhmm. But in all segments, we are profitable. So we can make a payment, but specifically, it will be different. Okay. So because when we when we look at our peers, they have more exposure to passenger vehicles too, which seems like a more lesser loss issues. I was just trying to understand that where are you bringing the difference on our table? How it happens is, you know, any business where you see the loss ratio would be low. Let me give you example in passenger cars. If you go back eight, nine years back, the high end passenger cars is the most profitable. Today, it is among the worst. No? Okay. It is not these are not these stable kind of environments, you know, in which you can say that, no. This will always be like this. It keeps on shifting. The market which sees profit in our area will move in, and that is the profit of building. No? And in GI, it happens very, very fast. So unlike other industry, in GI, the profit will diminish very fast. Then other profit will get created. And that's why we have a good insurance company to able to figure out what are the profits that we created, where to write what business, and where is deteriorating. It happens. In passenger cars also, if you do a study, just take out the loss ratios of high end vehicles. Even the spicy foods that I can see today, this is a massive deterioration in that. So I think it just it just keeps moving. No? Mhmm. And, sir, one disclosure related question that I had. Do we plan to disclose reserve triangle in our I already answered that question. We would be looking at it sometime in FY twenty. If not the first quarter, by second quarter, we will do that. Okay. That's it from my side. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nitesh Jain from Investec India. Please go ahead. And for the opportunity, sir, and the conversations for a very strong set of members. Just on on general insurance, where I think there are a business where it became comparable performance of the company over the last three, four years, this is probably the first time we have seen combined ratio going up. And you mentioned that there is a one off element of crop insurance and also the investment. So this investment that we have done in this year, do we expect similar sort of quantum over next year, next couple of years? Let answer the combined ratio, and then I'll leave it to you for the investment part of it. See, on a combined ratio basis, you know, you have to plot the duration and the right of combined to industry. As a company, we benchmark out of the industry. As I mentioned earlier in my talk, combined with industry last year was a 130. This is one over one twenty six times. This year, about eight for the deterioration of combined with industry. And look at baggage, you know, upper movement is much lower than industry deterioration, which means, in fact, baggage has now outperformed industry by bigger margin than it had done last year. I think these are related terms when you look at it in this perspective, then you do a proper perspective of how the performance of the company has been. No? On a very standard basis, it will look like it has gone up, but on a related basis, at least the difference of combined ratio this year of value combined ratio industry is better, you in terms of what revenue it was last year. So the market also plays a force and for a significant large market player like us, yeah, and market is there. The good part is that they're, again, able to outbeat the market in terms of how the combined issues work. Give me an understood In terms of answers on the investments, there are two invest large pieces of expenses that we have invested in. One is manpower because we have a large number of bank card tie ups of different models. Some are branch banking based, some are tele calling based, some are centralized. So they it does require and there's a lot of technology integration that the banks require as well. Additionally, as I mentioned before, we are investing in our core systems in terms of technology. So technology investment in our core systems will continue for the next two to three years. It is not something we will cut back on. In terms of manpower, as the volumes build up in Bangka, we expect the expense ratio manpower cost to GWP and NW2 start coming down from FY 2020 for the next two years. So overall, to answer, our target combined ratio has never been very low. It is always as we have guided before, we'll be very happy to have a combined ratio below 100%, maybe 97%, 98% is what we think is sustainable in this market. But in a quarter on quarter basis, you will always have blitz. You will have catastrophes. Sometimes you'll have bad monsoons. You could have crop. So some segment or the other could have occasional quarter losses. It's not a one quarter business. This is a long term business, and we are not really worried. We think Badges is on a very sound footing and very good results for the quarter as well. So going into FY 'twenty, we have even of Ulysses cyclone, we have no price item to be. So do you think next year also you can deliver a combined ratio of less than 5%? We are not using now. We don't predict what the combined ratio will be. There will always be events like the Orisa or catastrophes. We do not think Orisa flag will have such a significant impact as of now. We are still waiting for information because a lot of bank are reducing that get reported. But as of now, we are not expecting a very big impact. Having said that, in terms of TP, I already mentioned our TP, gross rate was among among the best in the market. We have much better ability to withstand the pricing decision by the IIT. Kapad? Yeah. So if you look at the two things, know, forward looking statements are more relevant. If you look at the past track record that we have, I mean, consistently over years, we have ready to keep our underlying philosophy saying we're tied to market demand, customer experience, and this technology, industry innovation. We can be doing that. And like Srini mentioned, one off, Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It it okay. Advanced premium, as far as, these long term plans is concerned, is currently around the And which is majorly coming from cost. 300 cost. This is a segment wise loss ratio for MotorTP Motor only? MotorTP, overall, if we see, the loss ratio is lower than the last year. It's only around 65%. And motor OD is around 60%. And life insurance, if you can just share the reason of negative operating variance this year of INR 172 crores. What is contributing to that? And what is the other variance of INR $2.61 crores? Just a second. I'll just open that. Yeah. The other variance includes the provision we made for ILFS and the dividend that we paid. Okay. Last year, we paid INR105 crores of dividend, and we had the ILFS exposure of INR26 crores that comes with other variance because it affects the NAV. And operational variance, why it is negative despite you seeing the present fee? It is a marginal negative. Yes. Yes. It's very marginal. Marginal. Don't think in the context of the ANCV, it's a very big amount. It's a very material it's not a material amount. Sure, sure. That's it from my side. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Avina Singh from SBI Cap Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi. A couple of questions. The first one, crop. I mean, that can you tell that what's the sort of a 4.19? What's the final number of loss between crop including the reinsurance cost? And how had been the reinsurance arrangement? Because I mean, a 115 crore kind of a loss in a ruby season. It looks a bit on the higher side. So some more color on the insurance arrangement in the crop you had this season. So that's the question number one. Second question again related to the yield only. Particularly, if we look for the growth out the growth and profitability going into FY '20 now, of course, MotorTB, as you are saying, hope it's temporary freeze on the rates, but at least it's there. There is still no sign of benign competition on the OD side. And crop, you have sort of an intention not to be very aggressive. So I mean, we can expect a sort of a lower than market growth for you in the crop side. Additionally, what you said about property fire line that, okay, that GIC circular has impact, at the same time, we are also hearing that now clients have come back to the same old era where they are again negotiating hard for the discount on the group health side. I mean, so in all this sort of external environment and on the macro side, your vehicle sales new vehicle sales are again not great. So how do you see that growth and profitability going in this year? Mean yeah. Because there are so many factors working against. So Yeah. Always factors have been working against in GI. It's only business where we have seen significant depreciation in prices over the last ten years or so. So it's not something new for the market. Only the type of challenges that you face keep changing year on year. Would you like to take those questions? There are many questions we have asked. No. That's okay. Let take the reinsurers arrangement on crop. Third is property pricing. Yeah. And four is auto sales being lower. Yeah. Okay. So if you look at the reasons across for us in this year was with GIC, led by GIC. But I think for all nearly all players, minus a couple of it, GIC led the reasons program this time, which was there. And that is why we had a good quotation, a stop loss arrangement. Having said that, if you look at the overall crop business for the entire year, it had not made losses for us. I think we still have some profit from that. And the second point is on terms of the market getting tougher. And like Srini mentioned, I think this is normal for us. So a tough market is not something that is something new or we we're afraid of it. The sales of cars would dip. The PP freeze would happen. But as I said earlier in my speech, I think the beauty of the insurance is it is widespread. It has a lot of components. On a general basis, these statements are right. On a specific basis, smart companies, which are very customer obsessed focused and have our innovations happening, are still able to find out areas where we can do good. That was always the endeavor, and I think we have some real good talent with us. And that's what we shall continue doing. So the point remains is the market, as you rightly said, the massive correction either, as I said, in terms of profitability, in terms of losses, or in terms of the market transforming will not happen. Market receives further, and we have seen impact of it, the last year results, if I look at the PSE results, which happened this time. Solvency were a couple of, you know, few has also got hit. So I think the companies would be a bit wary of, you really trying to push things a bit too much beyond what it already is. So as Srini mentioned, for us, it is it is something to similar. A bit of drop in passenger car will happen, but as a company has been there for eighteen years. I think we have substantial book of, you existing customers. We have substantial book of players, and she mentioned we also got a lot banks tied up for us this year. We have good names. We live there. So opportunity of business is always there. Market would be tough, but you are right. No denying that. But as a company, I think we are not seeing any market for so many years, it's perfectly fine. Overall, our strategy is to grow market share in the segments which we prefer. So that segment, the way we define it is a much more granular and detailed than what the line of the lines of business are. So in each segment, based on analytics, we try to find more and more finer segments where we would like to grow our market share. That has been our strategy till now, and then continue. Yes. Okay. Thanks, Sidney. One follow-up question for you. Do we have, I mean, our group entity exposures to the stress group, the D1 housing, ADAD and FL? See, as of now, we are fully provided for, ILFS. The others, we are evaluating, on a group basis, for each batch, you can balance separately, and we will see as things evolve. As of we only provide against where there is a loan default. We don't provide any market rumors. No. No. No, sir. Can you disclose the extent of exposure to the company? I don't have the data with me now. We would have individual funds on par, non par funds, the insurance companies some exposure that we would disclose it if required in our latest change. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Hitesh Gulati from Haydong Securities. Please go ahead. Yes, sir. Thank you for taking my question. Sir, just to clarify, sir, the motor mix that you said, so you said about 40% on CV. Is this number moved up substantially from last year's what it was in FY eighteen? Hello? Yes, sir. Can you hear me? Yes. Business mix in terms of commercial vehicles has improved as compared to last year. And this has multiple compensating impacts, as I would say, since the auto sales had gone slow in this challenging year. Although if we look at it in absolute manner, we actually increased our number of policies by almost around 32%, and we have improved our penetration in most of the OEM programs. But in spite of that, I think the commercial vehicle segment offered better opportunities and I think as everyone knows, it has a longer impact in terms of availability of float and the recurring investment income which it will generate. So with that, what was Sir, you are add to what Milan said, more than half our motor overall business from two wheelers, private cars, and commercial vehicles, 56% is from TP, and 44% is from OD for the current year. Last year, it was only 48% from TP. Our loss ratios on TP are very good at 65% overall, and the OD loss ratios are about 60. Overall, motor loss ratios haven't changed. So there is a lot of adjustment between lines that happens, and we are building float quite handsomely in our motor business. Sir sir, actually, can we get the number of what this was? CV proportion in FY eighteen? I gave you 48. The CV proportion. Yes, sir. In motors. So for example, you said 41 in f y nineteen. So what was that in f y nineteen? Yeah. '33 or both to '38, sir. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. And, sir, can we this mix that you're giving is for the overall motor piece, can we use similar mix for motor OD and motor TP? Because in TP, having a claim ratio of 65 looks very good, sir. So is that is the same assumption we should make that TP also has a similar CV mix? See, I think that is something you will have to make an assumption because as we mentioned before, it's a very dynamic business. If you ask me next year what it will be, it depends on not only the volume but also the pricing and how we see the market quarter on quarter. Okay. Okay. So that's it from my side. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dhanesh Jain from RD Industries. Please go ahead. Yes, sir. Sir. Sir, my question is on the on Vale. So if you see in the company has reported really strong growth mainly in MB, growth in a 45% level. And because mainly the control rate by recording company's ID price, sir. So so do you think that these are that the good that good growth momentum will continue? See, that is a difficult question. We always would like the growth momentum to continue. This year has not been that easy a year because unit market was quite subdued. And in the IB, I think last few years ago, we have made a conscious effort to grow our individual rated premium at a faster rate than our group premium, which anyway we were doing quite well. Arun? Yeah. So that's a pretty good question. Yeah. So we've, and Srini has also responded, we've been put together a focused strategy around institutional business. And we've grown by 86% last year. Can't make a forward looking statement, but I can tell you that the IB side will, of course, remain a focus area and therefore grow more. And similarly, we also have another proprietary sales channel, which has also grown a healthy 82%, if I remember. And there also the growth rate shall be good, but I cannot make any forward looking statement on percentages. And you will see a non agency business grow faster than agency. Broadly, can say that. Okay, correct. And your second question is, as mentioned in the number 60, that, sir, that due to some weak investment scenario in last month that the company focused on the many balance in the side. The company focused on the this side. So in the coming time, due to the and all, is there the Okay. So have I I don't know. There was some wasn't very clear. So is there a question among the product mix and the units and non units direction? Is that the question? Yeah. Yeah. Correct. Okay. See, as stated earlier on the call, we've always been intending to move towards a balanced mix. And last year, we've made some significant movements. See the way it's of course, we have a broad plan towards achieving it. But the underlying business scenario is that we focus we have a city based strategy. So given the presence that Valek has got a strength over the rest of everybody, the rest of the industry, we are present in about upwards of 400 cities, which most life insurance companies are not. In fact, we are in some cities where LIC is also not present. So as we have a city based strategy, unlike other life insurance companies, we are not just dependent on the metros, which are more unit focused. We are able to therefore run on a portfolio level a good mix, and our focus shall be to grow both metros and non metros. As a result, the product mix share will be balanced. And it's not that we want to push customers in a certain direction, but I do expect that in the non metros, the mix of traditional will be higher. And the metros like Bombay and Delhi, the big ones at least, where people are more financially literate, and do benchmark our products to wealth products as well. Therefore, the investment direction shall be more around units. So largely, we should remain like that, whether it's agency and other channels as well. The balance mix is going to be popping up from every channel and city. There will be tactical calls that we will take quarter on quarter. And for example, we'll have to see how the market will behave in the next three months. And the business is expected to be a little bit of a different situation versus what we've seen in the past. As the election results come out, the direction the market will get clear. And then tactically, will work around product mix for the quarter. Directionally, we shall remain balanced in both traditional and non par, par and units. Sir. Very good. Thank you very much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aniv Ran Sartaj from Principal Mutual Fund. My questions have been answered. The next question is from the line of Rishi Janjanwala from IIFL. Please go ahead. Yes, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. First, I wanted to understand even your strategy in group health. It has grown at almost 86% year on year. How had the loss ratios moved as a result in FY '19 versus '18? And what kind of what is the, you know, nature of corporates that you're addressing? Abhay? Okay. Yeah. So if you look at group health this year, the initial change, I mean, pricing in Haran, and then it softened a bit again. And, like, somebody asked the question, this expectation will soften more. So last year, when the pricing happening, we entered the group health space, and we we were most of it to, like, some big corporate from the IT consulting side and some small segment also. And the loss is deteriorated, which is a right treatment. But group health also has a couple of play which happened. The Group Health gives you access to a lot of number of customers, and these customers, because of the large numbers, enable you to negotiate with hospitals, better pricing compared to what they normally are paying to customers, which has a lower impact on the retail customer perspective also. The group, I typically would never have a a loss issue, which is very low. You always hover between 90 to a 100% because the loss issue for group health is substantially lower. Why would a CFO of company get a group health done? Because there's lot of large numbers also tied to that. But insurance company look at group health for two reasons. One, it gives them math, it gives them volume, and we can negotiate with the hospitals for better rates, which impact their retail portfolio also. And two, it also gives a lot of data in terms of figuring out what is happening on the the space of health and how it moves. So it serves a purpose, and I think at times, companies, right, at times it comes up. So last year, we had written group health issues and for a specific reason. This year, are getting to the prices to remains soft, will will not be that as it was last year. Okay. And on crop, what has been the loss ratio this year versus last year? And and have you won any tenders as yet for the current season? Yeah. Yeah. We have won quite a few tenders for the current season. Over loss ratio, I request billing because I'm traveling. I don't have the figures right now. Billing, you overall loss ratio? Yeah. I think overall loss ratio for this current year has been around 121%. So I think this year has compared to around 70% last year. So that is what has taken impact, particularly in Rabih. Because Rabih loss ratio has been around 150 plus, particularly in two states of Maharashtra and Andhra Pradesh. So I think that has resulted in deterioration in q four results particular. Okay. We didn't have an excess loss cover over a 110 in that case? Yeah. So we we have excess loss cover, but we set a benchmark higher than that. I mean, 10 is too short term excess loss cover. Under under fair enough. The other thing is, you know, on motor, so we have seen, you know, clearly pretty strong growth in TP for you, but market share on OD has marginally declined on a full year basis. How are you strategizing around it considering that with the long term TPs, and we'll probably see some movement towards the people also adopting long term ODs if the pricing is right. How do you see that, you know, the strategizing around it? And also, as a result of this, do you expect loss ratios structurally to be higher but compensated by probably higher float and investment leverage? First and foremost, when you look at OD deterioration, look at premium. And I think Nilin mentioned earlier, and what we do for us has been strong. Deterioration in OD premium is simply because there are more discount in OD this year compared to last year, you and that is precisely why. And that is one reason that I told you earlier that we keep on looking at where the profit pool is shrinking, where it's moving on, keep on shifting our portfolio at that business. So overall, if you look at NLP growth, you likely see a good growth in the motors, you know, business, the number of vehicles that you've taken over 20%. Look at premium, it is it is lower. We lost the market share in the OD premium space, which I think is fine for the we have been in segments which we picked up on that basis where we felt the the profit pool was shrinking. We we did not enter it exactly. And that is why it's because we can you heard our TP loss ratio has been much better than the market. So I think we'd we did it very consciously this year. In times to come, yes, floor generation would be a big issue in terms of the money she's there. But you'd also see floor generation vis a vis the inflation of the claim which is happening. No? I think you have to see the rates return on the float and inflation and claims is happening. How do you balance it off? And as mentioned earlier, three or four years from now, how will it payout? No? Would not be something that we look at very strongly. We look at how how the next year is gonna look at how will it payout, how the regulator is looking at it. We'll continue locking in PP for three years now or five years now on the same premium. And so that is something which is there. So we have an interesting play which will happen in the motor business sometimes to come. But we add to what Tapan said that OD component of two wheelers particularly is very small. The total OD premium for us will not be more than one and a half percent of our total GWP, and the TP component is much higher for two wheelers. So therefore, two wheelers, because of the five year rule and because of the higher penetration under the five year, TP, we think will remain a float business. Understood. And lastly, on Life, so we have seen a substantial jump in our solvency ratio, which used to be five ninety odd percent. It's now eight zero four percent. And it's because that for a couple of years, IIT had allowed us to classify some part of your excess capital as funds not required to meet solvency margins. So that was not technically counted for solvency ratio, although the money was still lying in the company as shareholder funds. Our last year, we took a call to merge it back because we did not find any advantage because most of the prudential norms of IIT applied to this fund as well. So we didn't find any additional advantage by keeping it separate. So we merged it so the reported solvency will actually go up. Although, technically, the amount of funds is always available with us. Am I am I right? Yeah. Absolutely right. And so, you know, as a result of this excess capital, are we are we looking at you know, we have introduced dividend from last year, but are we looking at increasing it? I think this year, we'll just maintain the same rate. Yeah. We are maintaining because this year, the profitability path is a little bit lower. This is a matter we will review. We have a different policy, which we will keep reviewing every year. This is a joint venture decision between the two partners. So we take a decision as we come. As of now, this is what we will maintain. Great. Thank you so much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sumit Karivana from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead. Yes. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. I had two questions. One is on the operational variance. I know the amount is very low. It's only 17 crores. But just had this question as to what's driving the negative part because if I look at persistency, that has improved quite well. Growth this year has been very good. So that was my first question. What's driving the negative stuff over there? And second question is ticket size improvement, which is which has been very good over the last couple of years. Even this year, when you've reduced the unit mix, the ticket size has done really well. So what's driving that? Those are the two questions. Yes. So I'll take the first one, Raman, here. I think the small operational variance is the impact of actualization. And what we disclosed there is nothing but actualization till year end, so this will always remain a small number. And essentially, it's the impact of cancellations which happened during the year. So that's a very small number in any case. The other question, I think Tarun will take up on the average ticket side. So what's been happening is that as we've been relooking at our focus areas on customer segments, and there's a lot of data crunching that happens at the back end, we've consciously now balanced out from being a mass market player to mass affluent and HNI player as well. So what's been happening in the smaller cities, we've been skimming the top now as well, while we're usually entrenched in the mass market there. And in the metros, of course, we are present in all segments, but largely on a ticket size basis, it tends to deliver a higher average ticket. So as a result, the pace of our agency, I mean, the kind of advisors we've been hiring has, if I say, in terms of the quality of customers has gotten a lot better. So these agents are the ones who moved up to mass affluent and above customer segments. We've been hiring these kind of agents more. As a result, in Europe, we've the ticket size has moved up from 76,000 to 86,000. Even traditional, the the there's been a far larger shift in terms of our ticket size from 23,000 to thirty thirty six thousand. And what we were seeing was that when we used to write lower ticket traditional, the early mortality was higher. So we basically, on a focused manner, moved up to a higher ticket in traditional. Overall, agency traditional has also moved up from 44,000 to 58,000. So as a result, which is a rare thing you'll see with us, there's no slight insurance companies that non agency ticket sizes are currently low, while agency ticket sizes are high. Having said that, I think it's already kind of near peak, and we don't expect too much of a ticket size movement in the agency now. Got it. Yes. The numbers look very good, actually. So if I on Slide 27, if I look at your average ticket size in the agency channel is now 75,000. Is that correct? Yes. Yes. Because of that, you look on traditional average. Got it. Got it. And last question is on assumption change. That's quite a positive number. Anything which is driving that? It's largely the change coming from improved lapses. So our persistency, as you see, has been improving year on year across all buckets, and this is essentially the impact of that. Got it. I'm a bit confused as to why is that not reflecting in operating variance still. So we we actually it's a classification issue. So if you look at both of the buckets together, that is essentially the operating variance. Yeah. So you do assumption then at the start of the year, is it? We do it at the not really the start, but in quarter one. Ah, okay. Okay. Okay. So then I get that. Yes. Because then it's reflecting an assumption change, obviously. Right. Okay. So this is very helpful. Thanks a lot. Thanks, Amit. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sachin Mittal from Karvi Stock Broking. Please go ahead. Hello? Hello? Yeah. Go on. Go on. Sir, I have a question on bulk. Particularly, what do you think that it is a backward growth that is going to change in the coming years? How it will going to change the cash position? One question second question is, what is the decision? How do you decide on the contribution if it came to the policyholder from the shareholders? And what is expected change in that? And the guidelines on the direction of surplus transfer to shareholders' account from policyholders in the coming years to come? So, Sachin, your voice wasn't very clear. Can I just broadly summarize your question? One, if you're talking about the back book Yes. How is it going to grow? The second question is, and correct me if I'm wrong, is around policyholder fund surplus. Is that Particularly for the power business, whenever you raise a short form in the the policies, you know, in the surpluses. In that case, the part the the shareholders profit is transferred to the to the to the policy holders to look up the particular the further guaranteed products. How it's going to change and how the firm is going to decide on that? And the third one is, what is the direction of the surplus transfer from the policyholder to the shareholders in the coming years? So unless Raman take the second and the third, and I'll take the first after that. So I'll so just correct me if I've not got your question right. So in terms of contribution, there are two parts to it. One is if there is a deficit in any line of business that needs to be funded by the shareholders. So there are some channels in which some lines of business where you will see us invest, and that's why you see a contribution from some of the LOBs, there is indeed a contribution. Now to answer your question, which I'll just correct me if I'm wrong is what is the trend expected going forward? So currently, we have some deficits in some lines of business because we are running overhand with some of these lines of business. Do we actually look at it from this perspective and try to have a scenario breakeven at the LOB level, I don't think we'd go at that level, but we look at more at a channel level than at the LOB level. So if a channel is selling combined product mix of EuroBanc, traditional and if the net result is healthy positive, then we do not get into micromanaging at that level. So that's why you might have some LOBs, which might still run-in the under run sorry, overrun situation, and that's why the contribution will be there. Having said that, for us, the surplus has been lower largely on two counts. One is that there's a realized gain on the investment portfolio were lower compared to last year. And the second one was the strain which is coming from the new business which we are writing. That's why you see that the policyholder surplus is depressed. And as you know, the more business you write until you have a big mass of infos book, which is created, you might still see the strain in the coming periods also. So as far as there is a healthy growth in the numbers, I don't think we should worry about the surplus being depressed. But having said that, I think moving on from here, you will see that maybe for the next few quarters, that amount is depressed, but then it will turn around because your inflows book will become bigger. And hence, your surplus will start getting reflected through the policyholder's revenue account. Understand. Because in the propriety mix, it's going to be going forward to be non par unit. That's what because most of the peers in the industry, they are releasing their stake, particularly in the power business because it's a guarantee they have guarantee products. And it's does not go well with the profitability for the firm itself. But here, the priority is on par as well, which actually raises this particular question that how would this guarantee profit will be transferred to what extent. You see, you have to understand the par business in a little bit different way. In a power business, you normally give a low guarantee. You give a possible policy order reasonable expectation in terms of bonuses. The expectation of policy orders is built on either 8% or 4% investment income scenario that's committed. Typically, most part products in terms of the normal, guarantee plus the bonuses come to maybe three, four, four and a half percent of IRR. Within today's, interest rate scenario and what we have seen in India for a growth market like India gives you reasonable spread. Additional profit would be added by the policyholders with lapse, but the only condition being that you the shareholder gets only 10% of the distributed profits. The key here is how much money you make, how much you distribute, and how you build your estate or FFA as they call it, fund for future appropriations. Our fund for future appropriations has been growing over the years. And once the fund for future appropriation reaches eight to 9% based on the current solvency margin norms, your power business becomes completely capital free. Whatever it adds and what are bonuses you can give will be for free of capital and infinite ROE. Therefore, the power business is a long term business. It does make sense to do a lot of power business because India's largest segment of customers who save money is still the power segment. Most of NIC's customers are power customers. They are people looking for protection. They're not people looking to make market returns from equities, but they want protection. But in case nothing happens to them, they want their money back with some IRR, which is at least comparable to a savings bank account. There are people who buy PAR products also for, tax savings under ATC. So for them, the actual returns could be higher because you don't get that in all other types of investments. So this is roughly the mixture of PAR. And having par in the mix is very important to acquire customers and to be in a market which is the largest segment of the market. Sachin, your question on the first question on maturities and the back book will keep increasing. So just to tell you that this is the first year since 2013 that we've had a net premium accretion as positive, where we had bulk top maturities till the last year. Our surrenders have come down significantly because we've been focusing on how to retain customers and how to of manage to invest for the longer term. So our surrenders came down by 44. That has helped us get a net AUM accretion of 8.9% for us, about 5,800 crores of additional AUM that's built in the business. So here on, we expect that the back book is going to get stronger and therefore helping the FFO build up in the entire shareholder surplus as well. So this is to me a payoff of the focus on quality that we particularly had in the last few years. That's very helpful, sir. Thank you, sir. Regarding the the surplus transfer from the policyholders and shareholders to the shareholders, how do you see that coming in in in the coming years? They said in the values of the deal, but the benefits paid to decrease accordingly. But as such, we will actually transfer it more towards the EPS growth or the ROE growth for the form, or it will be transferred to the for the bonus distribution for the part and for the dividend payments we shared with us. How do you going to see going forward here? I don't think you have got your question clearly. In the power business, very clear. You can either keep an FSA or, you can distribute as bonuses. If you distribute as bonuses, the shareholder gets one ninth of what you give to the policy holder. That is 10% of the total distribution. So it depends on total surplus generated each year. There is a policy holder return expectation for each product, which you have given in the past. You put in an occasional year, give a one off bonus, but being very clear that this is a one off thing. But overall, that will continue. So our objective will be to generate and distribute to the power policyholders, and within that, we'll get our 10%. In the meantime, we will also keep aside, keep building our FSA till it reaches maybe 12% of our total area. Sir, my question was on whether the transfer of the dividends in the and those will be the focus or the firm will focus particularly on increasing the ROE percentage? That's also my question, sir. Sorry. So ROE is mainly lower only because there is a significant solvency margin surplus capital sitting in the shareholder funds. That is something, as we mentioned before, our dividend policy, as of now, we are continuing to maintain what we have. Over time, we'll keep evaluating what the surplus is and take a call as it comes. That's helpful, sir. Thanks for that. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vinod Rajamani Please go ahead. Yes. Thank you for taking my question. So I just wanted to know on the Motor side, what kind of price erosion have we seen in terms of motor own damage this year? That was question number one. Then on group health, so you've been very so this year, you've grown your group health portfolio. So I just wanted to know how the outlook do you think for that segment is likely to be? I think that's already covered in an earlier question by on group health. Yeah. Yeah. Notifies, which is close to 15%, 20. That is a discount in the increase in the private customer. In the 15 to 20%. Okay. Thanks. Thanks so much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abhishek Surana from Deutsche Bank. This is Abhishek Surat here. So just one question on Life and one on General. So as I see that the individual nonpowers mix has actually increased very sharply this quarter around 16%, while it used to be anywhere around five to 7%. So just a bit curious on this, is it more of a tactical in nature, or are we actually seeing a reasonable growth opportunity here? The reason I ask is that few other life insurance companies have now started to focus on non pass savings segment a lot given the need for longevity solutions rather than only mortality solution. So are we also following the same line of thinking? And within this, if you can just give some more thoughts and color on the margin and the kind of customers you are able to get in this segment? Sure. No, that's a very good question. So see, we have since last year moved to a far non par and non par saving and ULIP mix. And as we progress, we will also have a fair mix of non par risk as well. But having said this, the strategy last year has been to check out the POS products, the month of sale products, which today are simplistic in nature and largely nonpart. And the reason why we've done that is see, if you look at the overall industry, the number of advisers that we mean, they've been added to the industry have actually been negative or near stable. So the net number of advisors are happening significantly to the life insurance sector. We've also been in the range of about 70,000 advisors every year. Now, we are very clear that we would therefore try to test out simpler products, which can be sold by a set of population, which is willing to get into the distribution of life insurance products. And that is a strategy which has worked quite well in the second half for us. So as we got an approval for our POS plan, the POS sharing plan, we found that there is a segment we can therefore pursue. And it has been encouraging. It's already picked up by our agency channel very well. Not only that, even in the institutional business, the cost saving plan is relatively a lot easier to explain to customers, has clear offerings in terms of cash flows and gives a lot more customer, I'd say, customer trust. Because in the case of par, future bonuses, of course, cannot be predicted, while in the case of non power, you do know your cash flows, which are are there in the same plan. So this has added another segment for us in the mass approval in the lower market going space. We intend to go out further in the strategy. And I think what IRGA has allowed in the POS product and the POS channels is unique. And we shall extract more out of this on a city by city basis. Last year was more like a testing phase where we, as I said, launched in the second half, and we tested it with few of our partners and a few agents. Now we've got a specific bot channel within the agency where we try to onboard part time agents, get them to you, get used to simple life insurance products, and then graduate them into a proper agency license. And in the institutional business side, as you're aware, we have a tie up with, India Post Payment Bank. Now as we move towards working with them, we would be testing whether India Post payment plan has start selling through the dark savers. Is it able to sell simple products like Fox? Because there is a person who has a very good relationship, but may not be financially illiterate in there, but this support, of course, can it's a simple cash flow based product. So this has remained a strategy. We've also been talking to the regulator to see if more products can come into the POS basket. And, therefore, you know, add a segment of distribution, which is largely been untested in the in in in the life insurance side. We remain bullish on this. Given our large presence, and I talked about this earlier in the call, more than 400 cities that, hardly any life insurance companies also present in some of our locations. We shall be, getting that, using that advantage because this is where you can add more distribution without necessarily making it more cumbersome for somebody to go through sales process and licensing process. Great. Thanks for the detailed explanation, sir. So just a few follow on on this. So these would be mostly like immediate annuity plan kind of products or deferred annuity? No, no. These are either limited annuity, not deferred annuity. These are cash flow based products. So, basically, the pitch is around a certain IRR on the cash flows. And so how do we manage the interest? I believe that the interest rate risk will be with the company as well as shareholders. So how do we intend to manage that I will answer that question. As of now, it's a very small proportion of our AUM. But as it builds to a certain level, we have put in a threshold. We will start looking at hedging it. Okay. And sir, what could be the threshold? That we're not exactly a very small threshold as of now. It's a very small percentage. Okay. Once it becomes And I think what we've done, we've got it comfortably hedged as of now in terms of the current cash flows. Fair enough. Sir, one question on the general insurance side on the motor business aspect. Just wanted to have some sense on what is the kind of retention of motor insurance policies of the existing book. So, basically, you see a lot of migration of churn happening in terms of as insurance policies for the year matures, so the customers tend to have switch between different insurers. So for us, what has generally been the experience in terms of the transfer in and as well transfer out as well as transfer in? Just some color or your thoughts on that. So if you look at the the motor business, ma'am, 60% plus MOP of retention would be there for the good company. We would also be over 60%. The churn is of two reasons. One, some of them sell the vehicle to somebody else, and there'll be some churn happening, which is a shift happening. The churn which happens is more of again gets evened out because if I look at my rollover business, it also has a really good growth compared to the new business. But, predominantly, why does the churn happen? And what are the new relation? As I said, for lines of business, we study that. For two wheeler, the renewal ratio for industry is around 26 odd percent, which means quite a few two wheelers don't even ensure the rating. That is why there's a long term policy coming to play because I think uninsured the TPFB issue. For commercial vehicle, about 40% of the vehicle don't insure. 60% is the well, that is why, again, that's also a bigger issue, which has been discussed already. Mhmm. And private car only have 80% vehicles are insured. 20 are not insured. So if you see a retention ratio on another basis, it's lower 60% or 65, 66. And you see that about 80% are the ones which have insurance in 20 are dropping out as it is. And you can also see that there will be some you're selling the cars to somewhere else, and that is where it hovers around for the industry and for the good players which should be there. I hope it answers your question. Yes. The next question is from the line of Nitesh Chain from Investec India. Sir, one question on Moto TV. If I look at the loss ratio on Moto TP, 65%. If I look at other players, they are hovering around 100%. So what differently we are doing here, if you can just throw some light because there is a very sharp difference between your Moto TP loss ratio versus industry and what's other question why it is so high for them. Moto TP, it is a court matter, and we have a very strong TP team. Historically, it is not just about private cars, two wheelers and commercial vehicles. There are multiple segments, geographies, customer segments within that, and we have always been strong in that. So we can't answer why others are high. Okay. Thank you. That's it from my side. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pawel Gara from DSC Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Yes. Thanks. Just a couple of questions. First is, actually, about eighteen months back, we had this initiative at the group level to sort of mine the group customer base. So just wanted to get an update where are we on that front and this performance on that. And if you could share the cross sell ratio for the insurance businesses, both general and life. That's the first question. And second is could you share the reserve releases from prior years in FY 'nineteen for the general insurance business? First, Rajin, it was not a data mining exercise. We had just collected and created a system by which companies can put in data, enrich the data. Each company would then be given the data back. So we don't have a system of sharing data across companies at all. That is not allowed by the regulation either. So each of the companies have got much more enriched data, which already is happening in many ways. Each company is doing as well cross sell and upsell initiatives. That, I will let Tapan and Tarun take it. Okay. So if you look at the general insurance business typically, I think as I mentioned about the talks, we typically push product in which automobile is one which customers don't look for. Best health or personal accident or home issues, the continuous interaction customers where we offer them. Our cost of ratio has definitely moved up, but not significantly. We moved up by some extent. But company's effort is there. We strongly believe that somebody has to crack this. We will only look at GI, then as a whole. The cost of our ratio are much, much lower than, let's say, banking portion. And typically, the customer's behavior in terms of how you would set this product. So a lot of conversation, a lot of discussion has to happen. It's one of our focus areas. The numbers have moved up, but it's not so significant, which I would know, tell right now. But I thought that's a lot. From the live side, what we've done is talk to the proprietary sales force. So this is a channel which basically works on the principle that Srini has discussed with you. It basically these are data scrummers. They work on enriching the existing data that we have on customers, work on then then profile based pitches and and also service calling based on which, we figured out what right time when when to call a customer with what kind of an offering. This for us has, is, of course, small, but, last year has moved up to about 10% of our entire business. And and as I explained, this has been one of those healthy growth channels for us. So we did about 183 crores of, new business, retail weighted new business out of this channel. And we shall remain focused on enriching the data and getting more out of this in terms of how we can pitch through personas. Sure. And just on general insurance, would the cross sell be more than 1.5 at this point? No. It will be less than that. Less than that. Okay. Yeah. That is one of the big initiatives we'll have over the next three, four years as we build our we have set up a separate analytics team for both life and nonlife. And it's our intention because we see that as a big, you know, profit pool. Sure. And the second was on reserve releases from prior years in FY nineteen for the general insurance business? Milan, is there any significant reserve releases last year overall? Milan? Milan, just cut off. Hello? Yeah. The question is whether there are any reserve releases last year net on the p and l. No. They have been more more or less in line with earlier years only, so no significant releases, sir. So one one one to 2% of combined ratio, that that's the broad range. So No. It won't be that much, I think. Will it be that much, No. No. It won't be at least. We're in Okay. Sure. Sir, just just lastly yeah. Yeah. Just one thing. See, I dropped her at 01:00. I have a meeting after that, ma'am. Sure. Just sorry. Just last last thing on this health insurance business. So the health business, we had done some restructuring at the in the GI company to sort of increase the focus. So just some update around, you know, growth in the individual business and what is our broad mix today and and some some color around where retail health could be? We last year, if you see in the market, we have grown about 15%. About three stand alone companies have grown faster than that, about 28, 29%. Two of the large competitors in the cons and the composite insurers have actually de grown their health insurance business. One thing we were not doing is the benefit based bundled business, which the bank owned companies were doing. We are kept away from that for various reasons including potential concerns about creating a compliant structure for that. So we predominantly sell more than 90% of our products on indemnity based. Majority of our businesses comes from agency and banker. So our growth overall in retail health was 15% last year. They've also become the largest payer in claims among the composite insurers in the private sector, which we believe based on our study of U. S. Companies, building the payment capacity is very essential, to have control on the pricing going forward vis a vis the hospitals and the network partners. And what was the broad mix today between government, corporate, and individual? Government, we have done only. This is the first year we had done. Around 15%, Srini, this year. Government. Yeah. Government is 15. Government is 55? Yeah. And 35 is Correct. Okay. Perfect. Thank you so much. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would like to hand the conference over to miss Fanny Bapji for closing comments. On behalf of GM Financial, I would like to thank Mr. Srinivasan and the senior management team of the insurance businesses and all the participants for joining us on the call today. Thank you, everyone. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. You. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Behalf of JM Financial Securities Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.