Good afternoon, sir. I'll start the meeting.
Rajiv, please start. Hello?
Yes.
Yeah, please start.
On behalf of Antique Stock Broking, we welcome you all to the third quarter earnings call of Canara Bank. From the management side, we have Shri L.V. Prabhakar, MD and CEO, Shri Debashish Mukherjee, ED, Ms. A. Manimekhalai, ED, Shri K. Satyanarayana Raju, ED, Shri Brij Mohan Sharma, ED, and other team members. Without much ado, I would hand over the call to Mr. Prabhakar for his opening remarks, post which we will open the floor for Q&A. Over to you, sir.
Thank you very much. I sincerely thank my investors for the support they have given and the confidence they have imposed on us, because of which we could deliver good results. Let me talk about the net profit. INR 1,502 crore, which is about 150%, 115% Y-o-Y. We are not happy with the net profit of INR 1,502 crore. Our philosophy is to see that the balance sheet is very strong and the balance sheet is future ready. In that direction, what we did is, in the current quarter, that is Q3 FY 2022, INR 1,355 crore, we have made a special provision for the pension of the staff, which otherwise, as per the permission of the RBI, can be done in five years.
We don't want to wait for five years to make the provision, and we have uploaded, front-ended, total INR 1,355 crore. The second point is, last quarter, you are all very aware, there was a big NPA account Srei. Because of which the NPA figure has increased. Last quarter, we did 50% provision for that Srei account, where the outstanding is about INR 3,100+. This quarter, what we did is, instead of 50%, we have increased the provision to 75%. That is about INR 2,400+ crore we parked as provision against the Srei account to take care about the future losses. If future recoveries are there, we'll be plowing back the provisions.
Along with net profit, I would like to emphasize about the provision made for the pension and also the extra provision made for the Srei account, which is one of the bigger accounts. This time, Canara Bank has focused on growth in business, both the liability side and also asset side. Gross advances has grown by 9.28%, and now we are at INR 7.3 trillion loan book. Apart from this, retail, we have grown at 10.02%, housing, 14.82%, and agriculture, 12%, corporate, 10%. Put together, the gross advances globally, it has grown by 9.28%, and we are targeting to achieve two-digit growth under gross advances going forward. Apart from asset side, we are also very conscious about the liability side of the book.
CASA continues to be our focus area, and we have grown at 10.28%. Now, the absolute terms, it is about INR 3.42 trillion. Bulk deposits we have reduced, and there is a normal growth of about 7%. Regarding the asset quality, we have improved the underwriting standards, and also we have increased the emphasis and the total staff energies are being diverted towards the recovery in return of accounts also. Because of which, as we have committed in the last three to four quarters, that our recoveries will be more than slippages. We could get that situation during the current quarter also by recovering about INR 2,784 crore as cash recovery and about INR 1,100 crore as upgradation. The percentages, gross NPA from 8.42%, it has come down to 7.80%.
Net NPA has come down to 2.86. Going forward, we are very conscious about these two ratios, and we are committed to improve these ratios in Q4 FY 2022. Along with NPAs, we want to see that Provision Coverage Ratio also increases. Now we are at 83.26%, and we are of the view that we have to achieve 84%. Then capital. With all your support, this financial year, we have raised INR 2,500 crores QIP successfully, and also AT-1 bonds, and also Tier 2 bonds, and at a very competitive rate. Today, our CRAR is at 14.80, an increase by 111 basis points Y-o-Y. CET1, it also increased by 135 basis points to 10.12%.
Operating profit, we are at INR 5,803 crore, showing a growth of 10.16%. The operating profit for the three quarters is taken, it is growing at more than 16%. Global business, we crossed INR 17.7 trillion. In the last one year, we have added a domestic business of about INR 1.17 trillion. Current deposits continue to grow, and savings bank also continues to grow. This time we have concentrated on SMA-1, SMA-2, and SMA-0 of those accounts where the outstanding balance is more than 5 crore. Because of the focused attention, as on December 31, 2021, the SMA-2 amount is only INR 2,400 crore, which is 0.28%. SMA-1 is only INR 3,400 crore, which is 0.39%.
Put together, SMA-1, SMA-2, it is only 0.67%. Even put together SMA-0 also, it is only 1.76%. We could maintain very good recovery percentages under retail also. Retail, the NPA percentage is 1.30%. Housing, the percentage is 0.90%. In vehicle, education and personal loans, it is less than 2%. We target to continue to have the NPA ratios under retail at this level only. Regarding agriculture, again, our NPA is only 5%+, which is again a very good sign. With the overall increase in OP, NP, growth in credit, growth in deposits, and reduction in SMA and also increasing the capital, we could make Canara Bank balance sheet ready for the future. Thank you very much.
Thank you, sir. We open the floor for Q&A now. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may do so by pressing the Raise Hand button on the app. We wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. First question from the line of Mahrukh.
Yeah, please.
Yes. Hello, sir.
Hello, ma'am.
Sir—
Please.
A couple of questions. Firstly, there's a lot of lending that has happened to NBFCs during the quarter. What kind of NBFCs are these? Because that's the key driver, growth driver, correct?
One of—
What kind of NBFCs are these?
I cannot say it is the only driver, it is one of the drivers. As far as NBFC is there, in the slide we have given the rating of the NBFCs. 98% of the NBFCs today, they are A and above. At the same time, we are getting good yields from them, along with taking care about the future risk aspects. Yes, ma'am.
Sir, my other question or follow-up is that, but what kind of like is it a power finance NBFC? Is it other private NBFCs? That's what I meant, whether it's PSU or it's private.
Right. Along with these NBFCs, let me bring to your notice the credit growth that has happened in other parameters also. For example, as I said, retail, you have seen 10% growth. Housing, 14% growth. Agriculture, 12% growth. Corporate also 10%, out of which NBFC is a component. Now, last time I have said that we are very aggressive in sanctioning HAM projects under infrastructure. Why I'm telling HAM projects is, under HAM projects, most of the risk is being taken over by the NHAI. There are milestones, after completion of those, only bank will be disbursing the amount. Safety is good. The second strategy is Canara Bank, with a huge equity, and also with the talent available to assess the infrastructure projects at head office level, we have financed big-ticket HAM projects.
For example, previously, banks used to sanction INR 300 crore, INR 400 crore, where the debt requirement is about INR 700 crore. Today, Canara Bank is in a position to underwrite total INR 700 crore, which in turn is giving Canara Bank bargaining power in terms of interest rate and also in terms of processing charges. Because of which, you can observe the yield on advances has gone up. Apart from infrastructure projects, we have given for public sector undertaking NBFCs also on a calculated basis. It is a mixture of these things, but all the NBFCs are A and above.
Got it, sir.
Thank you.
Sir, my other question is on asset quality.
Please.
Thanks. Sir, the first question is that, was there any reversal of provisions related to Air India this quarter and will there be some more in the next quarter? On Future Retail, I mean it would be part of the restructured book and, it's probably, not performing as the restructuring terms. Correct?
Ma'am, Canara Bank was having exposure to Air India to the extent of only INR 200 crore. Total INR 200 crore we have recovered.
Got it, sir. Sir, in terms of future—
Yes. As you see, Canara Bank PCR is more than 83%. Whatever recoveries are going to happen, along with the recoveries, there will be significant amount of provisions that will be returned back. That is why I said we are making our balance sheet future ready. Future Group, yes, we have exposure, but it is not going to be NPA in the coming quarter because we have exposure to only one part, not to the other part.
Okay, sir. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thanks a lot.
Thank you, Mahrukh. We have our next question from the line of Suraj Das. Yes, Suraj, go ahead.
Mr. Suraj Das.
Hello. Yes, sir. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Now it's clear.
Yeah, there was some issue on the unmute. Sir, my question is on this asset quality again. Can you, sir, bifurcate what is the slippages break up for this quarter, I mean, segment-wise, like in agri, corporate, retail, and MSME? Because, as you said, there has been some pickup in growth in infra, steel, textile and all that. If you could bifurcate the slippages break up segment-wise. That is my first question.
Right. Second.
Sir, my second question is on the restructuring. While you have given a slide on, you know, restructuring, which consists of COVID 1.0 and COVID 2.0, but also, sir, you have one MSME restructuring pertinent to the earlier scheme. I just want to know, what is the total restructured amount, which includes COVID 1.0, 2.0, earlier MSME and all other previous restructurings. What will be the total amount?
Correct. Now let me talk about the fresh slippages, about INR 2,699 crore. In this, it consists of about INR 400 crore, one or two big accounts, and the remaining is agriculture, retail, and MSME. If you bifurcate about INR 2,200 crore under these three categories, it will be coming about INR 600-INR 700 crore, INR 500 crore in these three sectors. Regarding that INR 593, which is there, it is existing NPAs, including big accounts also, where the non-fund based limits have been devolved. That we have paid. Basically, INR 2,699 consists of about INR 400 crore of one or two big accounts, not even big accounts because it's less than INR 400 crore. INR 2,100 crore relates to agriculture, MSME, and retail proportionately.
Maybe 5% this side or that side. That's all. Regarding the restructuring, RBI has said that there is a restructuring package one. In that, we have clearly given that INR 5,000 crore, which is restructured. Restructured package two. RBI said that you have to give the restructuring package and resolution to number and amount. We have given the number as 3 lakh, amount as INR 14,198. But the beauty of this restructuring in Canara Bank is because of the continuous follow-up and hand-holding and timely giving, timely benefit was given to our customers, because of which 74.34% of these people who have availed the resolution process have paid back the amount. For your question regarding MSME, which is other category, it is about INR 3,200 crore, which is frozen long ago.
Okay, sir. If I have to arrive at the total restructuring, that would be this INR 5,000 crore of COVID 1.0, then this—
No.
INR 14,000 crore of COVID 2.0.
No. That figure is on that date. Now the figure has gone down. There is recovery, there are closure of accounts. To some extent, about 1%-2% have been slipped into NPA also. That is hardly INR 150 crore, INR 160 crore. That is less than INR 200 crore. If you remove this again, the figure will come to about INR 20,000 crore or INR 21,000 crore, not more than that.
20,258.
20,258, precisely.
Okay.
Going forward, by next quarter, this figure will still come down maybe by INR 2,000 crores to INR 18,000 crores.
Right. Understood, sir. Sir—
Thank you, Suraj.
What will be the provision on this restructured pool, sir?
10%.
Okay. Do we have any other provision outside this, I mean, restructured pool over and above the PCR? Any other contingent provision or COVID provision?
Sir, the provision which is not included in the PCR, there are three things. One is provision for standard assets, another one is provision for RP, and the third one is, as you said, the provision which we do in specific cases.
Okay. What would be the standard provision, I mean, as on date, rough ballpark figure?
All these three things put together, other than PCR, it is about INR 6,000 crore.
Okay, sir. Thank you so much, sir. Yeah, that's it.
Thank you, sir. Thank you.
Thank you, Suraj. We have our next question from the line of Mona Khetan. Mona, you can ask.
Hello, am I audible?
Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir. Good evening, and congratulations on a good set of numbers. Quickly—
Thank you, ma'am.
On this, we have seen rationalization of employee expenses in FY 2022. How do we look at employee expenses going forward? Would this rationalization continue, or we should see growth from here on in terms of the total employee expenses?
Ma'am, if you see in the last two years after amalgamation.
Right.
Most of the senior people have retired. Recruitment, we are a bit cautious, and selectively we are recruiting the technical people. That is directly reflecting in the staff cost, which is coming down quarter-on-quarter. After amalgamation, Canara Bank has changed its strategy of doing business by bringing in a hybrid vertical types, which has boosted the business, and the available staff were properly deployed. Simultaneously, the digital transactions are increasing in Canara Bank at a very great speed. In the last three quarters, about 256 crore transactions have happened through digital. This has an impact on my staff strength. With the existing staff strength also, going forward, I can do business with the help of digitalization and also verticalization. This will be our plan now.
Okay. Probably in FY 2023 also, the growth in employee expenses should be pretty contained. Is that a fair understanding?
Need-based recruitment we'll be doing, I can tell that. Just like normal procedure, as public sector banks used to do, we have to recruit every year. That policy we have changed. We now work on scientific lines, requirement of the staff, proper deployment of the staff, proper accountability of the staff, and then proper rewarding of the staff. These things we brought in the last two years, which has given us good results, and employee participation and involvement has increased a lot.
Sure. Thank you.
Thank you.
The other question is, if you look at slide 21, there is a write back in other provisions of INR 400 crore. What exactly is this pertaining to?
Yes. My CFO, Mr. Ramchandra, is there. Ramchandra, please explain.
This time we have made a one-time provision towards the family pension of INR 1,355 crore. Last year, when we are preparing the results, we made an ad hoc provision for the family pension to the extent of INR 400 crore. The same INR 400 crore is reversed this time. That is why there is a reversal.
This family provision should come in other OpEx. I was talking about the provision line item outside of the operating profits.
Yeah. Correct. Family provision, we have taken as an extraordinary item.
Okay.
Last quarter, the provision made towards the family pension included in the, under the provision head, below line o ther provision. That INR 400 crore, since we have made as an extraordinary item, this INR 400 crore we have reversed.
Sure. Got it. Also, if I look at your corporate GNPA, sequentially, there is a decline of INR 1,000 crore in the GNPA quantum. What has helped this decline this quarter?
Ma'am, if you see our recovery under NCLT accounts, this time, this quarter, we got about INR 333 crore of recovery in bigger accounts from NCLT. Also in other bigger accounts, because in terms of putting pressure on them and taking legal actions, we could recover good amount in big corporate accounts also, because of which the percentage has gone down. Second point is because the outstanding of the corporate credit has gone up, that has also helped in reducing the percentage of NPA as far as the corporate is concerned. It is a double effect.
On the ECLGS book, what is your outstanding quantum, and have you seen any delinquencies from the book so far?
Ma'am, it is about INR 16,500 crore. It is about INR 570,000 crore. 70,000 accounts. 570,000 accounts. Generally, we treat 1%, 2% will be slippages there, and immediately we'll be taking action on those things. It is a continuous process. 2%, 1% will be slipping, and accordingly, action will be taken. This amount is included in our current slippages of INR 2,699.
Okay. Got it. Finally, what share of the loans? It is repo-linked, and similarly on the liability side, if there is anything that is linked to repo or external benchmark.
Liability side, no, ma'am. Asset side, yes. We have a book cover about, roughly maybe around INR 30,000 crore-INR 40,000 crore.
Okay. Thank you so much, sir. That was helpful.
Thank you, ma'am.
Thank you. We have our next question from line of Jai Mundra. Jai, you can ask. Jai, we cannot hear you. Jai, are you there? I think we move on to the next question meanwhile. We have our next question from the line of Hrishikesh. Hrishikesh, you can ask.
Hello, am I audible?
Yeah, you are audible. Please, Hrishikesh. Hrishikesh.
Great, great. Okay. Sir, my first question is, regarding the broad outlook on the other income. Would it be fair to say, you know, that other income now more or less will be in the similar range?
Other income, it will be growing in the coming quarter also. Whereas trading income, we presume that it will be at this level only. It will not increase. Fee-based income also we are going to increase. Put together, I think, we are expecting to compensate the loss in the trading income through recovery in return of accounts, through income from other sources, and also through interest income. Finally when we see, there will not be any impact, whatever treasury is not giving to the Canara Bank.
Okay, got it. My second question is, sir, if I see, previously you had guided for somewhere around lower than 2% credit cost, and recently just now you mentioned that there will be, you know, many provision write-backs and significant recoveries. Do you think this is a very conservative estimate, you know, like net of the whatever write-backs we have? Don't you think the provisions can be even lesser than 2%? Maybe we could just try to assume, you know, around 1.5%, like similar to INR 10,000 crores provision that we were guided this year. We may see that next year too, like even lesser than that.
As I said, our philosophy is to provide more and more provisioning so that the balance sheet will be ready for the future. That is why we are projecting that it will be around 2%. In real sense it may not be 2%, it will be less than that.
Okay. Around 10-11, you know, K for next one or two years, is it a fair assumption?
I think I will be in a position to reply after March results.
No problem, sir. No problem. Okay.
Thank you.
That is all my side. Thank you very much.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you, Hrishikesh. We have our next question from line of Dixit Doshi. Dixit, you can ask.
Yeah, my questions have been answered. Thanks.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Bharat Jain. Bharat?
Yeah. A very good evening. Thank you for.
Good evening, Mr. Bharat.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity and congratulations for a good performance.
Thank you.
I have two simple questions, like, what are our focus on digitalization of banking transactions? I mean, do we have any focus approach that, 50% or X percentage of our transactions should be digital? That is something there.
Sir, I request my executive director in charge of digital transactions, Mr. Raju sir, to kindly respond.
Good evening, Jain sir.
Good evening.
We are very much focused on digital transactions. Last year, actually, our digital transactions for the same quarter, December quarter, it was around INR 156 crore. Whereas in the December quarter after one year, the digital transactions or e-transactions increased to INR 246 crore. That means almost 65% growth in one year. This we could achieve it because of our focused attention on various parameters. That is the reason, one is we are very much aggressively marketing and making our product customer friendly in the mobile app. That's why we could enroll almost 4 million people in the last one year. In the debit card also, we have extended the debit card to almost 8 million people.
In the UPI, we are already touching 2 crore enrollments in that UPI enrollments. That also last one year, we made almost 80-90 lakhs fresh enrollments. In addition to that, we are encouraging semi-urban and rural and urban areas to do the transactions through BHIM QR code. That code in public sector banks, we are actually the pioneer, we can say that now at this moment. We are actively participating, we are actively canvassing because from the PM SVANidhi traders to middle class traders who are all doing the transactions now, they all been extended almost. We did 8 lakh 80,000 QR codes have been distributed, and we are very much aggressive on that.
Actually, the total, if you look at the branch walk-ins as well as the digital transaction comparisons, last March, our branch walk-ins for cash withdrawals is around 12%. Whereas in first nine months, that has come down drastically to 7.75%, and our digital transactions have increased to 91%-92%. We want to continue further in the same direction, and we are initiating more and more digital platforms, and we are introducing even digital lending End-to-End Straight hrough process from first April onwards. Many more we are coming in that, new with new features.
Okay. Sir, do we have any statistics like what is the percentage of transactions which are happening through digital mode? If we say total out of 100, how many are getting digital and—
I told you, sir. I already shared with you that the branch transactions have been now it is a single digit.
Okay.
That is why more than 90% transactions are done through e-transactions, digital transactions.
That is great, sir. Thank you. Sir, another question is like, as we have seen a successful merger with Syndicate Bank, what is the expectation that number of branches would come down in the coming year, the existing branches, and any plans to also like reach new locations?
Yes, sir. Actually, the last time when it has amalgamated, it was around 10,500 branches were there together. This year, we could, last year 150 branches, and this year almost 750 branches we have identified and already completed the exercise for closure. Wherever we find it, that it is with, well within the 200, 300 meters we have two branches. Those branches have been identified based on the pin codes and all. That exercise has been completed. In future also, wherever it is the possibility is there because we have, it's not that we are closing down the branches only, but we are converting many of those branches into a specialized branch. Almost 60 big corporate branches, 33 large corporate branches.
There are SME Sulabhs, 106. There are 243 RAHs. There are special created special focused branches we are opening. We will continue to open it like that, special branches also. It's not that we are not opening the new branches. Wherever potential is there, definitely we are open for the opening of the new branches, but our closure of the branches will continue in the next year also based on the duplication of the work. To minimize the overheads, we are working on that.
Okay.
To be more precise about the figures.
Yes.
December 2020, we were having 9,870 branches. December 2021, it has come down to 9,007 branches. That is about 863 branches are closed. Simultaneously, December 2020, we were having specialized branches of 625. Now that number has increased to 766. That is about 140 branches have increased, which are specialized branches which give lot of credit to the bank.
Okay.
Net effect, we can say, more than 750 branches we have closed, and those costs will be reflected in the coming quarters, which we are saving because of closing unviable branches.
Okay. Thank you sir. Yes . One more question. Like, any update from the NARCL which is being set up?
Sir, it is on track. I think some light we may be seeing by March of this year.
Okay. Would any percentage of NPS get affected or ratio of this?
We have identified INR 4,000 crore, which as and when time comes, we'll be transferring. It is only INR 4,000 crore.
Okay. Finally, last.
Bharat, can you move?
Yeah, finally, last question, sir.
Please.
Yeah. By when do we see Canara Bank as the number 2 PSU, and do we look forward to INR 10,000 crore of bottom line in the coming year?
Sir, let me tell you, this is a strong wish of my staff. When staff they themselves have this wish, I think, things will become easier. This much I can tell you.
We also as an investor have this wish.
Yes, sir. Your blessings are required.
Okay. Thanks.
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bharat. We have our next question from line of Anand Dama. Anand?
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, this quarter we have seen very strong growth on the corporate front, and within which basically we also had seen very strong growth in the NBFC book. Anything that you can comment about, where have we grown in the corporate side? Whether these are short-term loans or these are more of long-term loans that you have given, and what kind of yields you are making on them.
As I said, we are very aggressive in infrastructure and projects. That is one thing under corporate. Second one is in industries also, we have started underwriting the projects. Third one is under health sector also, we have underwritten most of the projects. The type of loans, they are basically term loans. Second point is in corporate advances, now we have changed our strategy. Previously, Canara Bank in a consortium used to have 5%, 3% or 7%. Now we don't want 3%. Minimum we want 10% in all the good accounts. We have shifted our way of thinking, and whenever the proposal comes corporate, which are A-rated and above, we are demanding 10% share in the working capital, which ultimately increases my CASA also. Because of that strategy in corporate, this time we have shown a good growth.
However, under retail and agriculture, in the last six to seven quarters, we continue to show good growth, which is under double digits. This time under MSME, even though YOY growth is 1.29%, quarter-on-quarter we have increased by 4% by catching hold of good MSME borrowers. Growth, I can say it is widespread. Under retail, out of 1 lakh 23,000, 70,700 is housing loan, backed by collaterals and mortgages. There we are seeing 14.8% growth, which is again possible with the involvement of each and every staff member under verticals where accountability is there, appreciation is there, and reward is also there. Growth is widespread. We continue to do this. RAM sector, we maintain a percentage of 56%. Corporate, we maintain a percentage of 44%.
That overall guidelines we will be managing, because we don't want to increase too much under corporate also. This ratio of 56, 44 or 55, 45, this will continue in the future also. Thank you, sir.
Sir, within the NBFCs, where have we lent basically? These are the microfinance, HFCs or the—
See, microfinance doesn't come under NBFC. For our calculation i n microfinance, we show it as a separate one. Microfinance, we have sanctioned about INR 2,200 crore and disbursed about INR 1,700 crore, which is guaranteed by the central government.
What is there in this NBFC book which has grown in this quarter?
NBFC book we have grown in all the NBFCs which are double A-rated and above.
Okay. Those are PSUs as well as private, is it?
Yes. Yes. Yes. All the growth is as per the terms and conditions of Canara Bank. Because of which you can see fee-based income. We could garner about INR 1,421 crore. Interest income is also increasing drastically. Since Canara Bank, a s you said, is going to be a market player in the future. We are ready to underwrite big-ticket loans at win-win situation, not at the benefit of the borrower. It should be at the benefit of the bank also. Now we are sufficiently in a position to dictate the terms in the market. Where the customers are very happy, the way in which we give the credit within seven days, at the most within 10 days if the ticket size is about INR 1,000 crore. This is there in the market, and we say yes or no.
Sure, sir. Sir, secondly, the Air India exposure that we had on our books. Any provision reversal we have done during the quarter?
Sir, in Air India, hardly we had an exposure of INR 200 crores.
Okay.
The INR 200 crores they have paid and they have closed their account.
Okay.
We are not having exposure to either Air India or Kingfisher. Canara Bank has not taken.
Got it, sir.
If you could please join the queue, we have long queue.
Yeah, yeah, sure. I'm done.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question from line of Mr. Ashok Ajmera. You can go ahead.
Thank you for giving me this opportunity. Congratulations.
Very good afternoon.
Yes, sir. I was waiting.
Thank you.
for my number to come. Congratulations, sir, for yet another quarter of good set of numbers and business process—
Sir, we lost you.
Over INR 1,700,000 crore, INR 17.7 crore.
Yes, sir.
I think very soon you will be next to State Bank of India, the way you are growing. It's very encouraging to know that, you know, you have started very big ticket size loan taking a stand alone, you know, approach towards large loans. Sir, I have got some small, some couple of observations and some queries.
Please.
Number one is that in Srei, we are left with about, I think, INR 775 crore more.
Correct.
To be provided. I think the balance loan can.
Correct.
Are we planning it in the coming quarter, this current quarter only now, January to March?
Sir, I cannot give specific answer, but I will give Canara Bank wants to be future ready and strengthen the balance sheet. This I can tell you.
No, no, thanks for that. Sir, this SMA-0 is about, I think, INR 15,000 odd crore, SMA-0. What is the experience now since one month has gone? What according to you something might, you know, finally become SMA-2 out of this INR 15,236 some odd crores.
Sir, SMA-0 is INR 9,000 crore, not INR 14,000 crore, sir.
Oh, sorry. Yeah, I missed. Yeah,
It includes SMA-1 and SMA-2 also.
Yeah, yeah. Correct, correct.
SMA-0 during COVID time, it is a common thing that they will be paying with a delay of two to three days.
Okay.
As on date, we are very comfortable as far as SMA-1, SMA-2, and SMA-0 is concerned, and we are hopeful that we'll be managing at this level going forward. Because I don't see any stress in any of my corporate accounts where INR 5 crore and above is there. Even if it is there, I have two months' time, I can solve it if any account slips.
Great to know that. Sir, now a bank like ours, there are two things, which the bank has some negative legacy. One is that CASA. Our CASA is, you know, though it is growing, but it is still under, you know, the normal, you know, 42% or 45%. One bank is having 55%. Some special approach is being adopted for that. Secondly, even the gross NPA, you know, the percentage terms, generally every bank would prefer it to be less than 5% gross and less than 1.5% net. Ours is 7.8%. With this NARCL INR 4,000 crore going away, I think it will make about 0.5% or 0.25% difference in this. Any other approach to reduce the gross NPA numbers in terms of at least percentage?
Sir, two questions. One is regarding the reduction in the percentages.
Yeah.
If you see in the last eight quarters, except one quarter when RBI has given the dispensation moratorium, otherwise quarter-on-quarter we are reducing the NPA percentage in terms of amount and also in terms of percentages. Same thing we are continuing with net NPA also, amount wise and percentage wise. This trend will be continued going forward. Our wish is, and our efforts towards that is, we want to have one of the best percentages in the industry as far as gross and net is concerned, which we feel we can achieve that. Regarding CASA, when Canara Bank two years ago, the CASA percentage was 30%. From 30%, we started growing and now we have come to 34 + percentage. In absolute terms, if you see the CASA amount, even in one year, it has grown by INR 32,000 crore.
Yeah. I know that, of course.
Growing INR 32,000 crores because if you recollect two years ago, our Provision Coverage Ratio was 70%.
Yeah.
Today it is 83.
Okay.
At that time, our NPAs are on a higher side. Before two years, earlier four years, every year Syndicate Bank and Canara Bank used to make losses. In the last eight quarters, the trend is changed and there is a continuous growth. For example, June twenty-
Yeah.
The net profit what Canara Bank shown was INR 406 crores. Next quarter, it has increased to INR 444 crores. Next quarter, it has increased to INR 696 crores. Next quarter, it has increased to INR 1,010 crores. Next quarter, it is INR 1,133 crores. Now it is INR 1,502 crores.
Five, yes.
If you see the graph, we don't want to go back. We want to go forward only. That is the spirit with which we are working in Canara Bank so that all my investors will make justice to them. Thank you, sir.
Sir, this pressure on the measuring.
Sir, thank you.
One last question. Okay, I will shift my question to another question. Sir, NBFC, you have got a very good exposure and, still I think you are comfortable for good NBFC A+ rated. Sir, what are your views on the real estate? Because now the overall business, you know, real estate is being re-rated by most of the other banks, and this particular sector also has started doing very well, especially in last about nine months to one year. I feel that our bank has still have some reservation on even some good, real estate, projects also, sir. What are your views and policy on this, sir?
Sir, our policy is since last four to five years when the experience was bad, when RERA was not in full force, it was cautious approach. Now RERA has stabilized and even underwriting standards have increased in the big public sector banks like Canara Bank. Apart from that, to fall back in real estate, we take some comfort from the promoter. That is point number one. Second one is to have 15%-16% housing loan growth, I have to sanction real estate projects, especially real estate housing projects. It is interlinked.
Yeah.
Once I sanction real estate housing projects, I will have first right of refusal where I can finance housing loan and I can close my real estate loan.
Okay.
Now we are cautiously aggressive in sanctioning r eal estate projects, and we are sanctioning.
Okay, sir. No, thank you. On the treasury front, there is some pressure, sir, on the income now because of the hardening of the interest rate and I mean, the signals and message. How are we going to, I mean, planning to offset because treasury all along has given, except this quarter, of course, it was still under pressure. What do you see in future? One is that, trading income and other one is the investment returns from the treasury a major allocation of the asset is there, sir.
Correct. Let me talk about the existing figures. With an average loan book of about INR 7 trillion, I can calculate at a yield of about 7.23% or 7.25% the amount of interest income that I going to earn, which will be very significant. We are projecting a growth of 10%+ as far as credit is concerned. Since we have already achieved 9.28%, our next step is 10%. We are confident of doing that. With this, whatever loss I incur in the sale of securities by the treasury, that I will compensate with interest income. Point number one. Point number two, as I said, recovery in return of accounts, we are targeting INR 1,100 crores. That is going to give me very good income. Business is always dynamic.
If one channel reduces the income to the bank should immediately shift to other channels from where they can earn the money. That is a strategy we have adopted, and we are successful, and we continue to be successful. Lot of efforts and lot of research is being put into before we take a policy decision.
Yeah.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you, sir. Congratulations.
Thank you, sir. Request you to join the line in the future. We have a lot of—
Thank you, sir.
Yeah, we have our next question from line of Mr. Aditya Singhania. Aditya, go ahead.
Thank you. Congratulations, sir, for excellent results.
Thank you, Mr. Singhania. Thank you very much.
Sir, I have two questions, both are somewhat accounting questions.
Please.
One is, you know, you have made INR 2,700 crores as provisions for loans, loan loss provisions. The write-offs are around INR 1,300 crores. The provision, outstanding provision coverage has not increased in absolute terms. I was just curious, where is the balance thirteen hundred odd crores?
Ramachandra, please.
Sir, the 2,946 was the total provision. INR 2,705 crores is towards the NPA provision we have given.
Yes.
See, in the total amount, INR 1,355 crore, we have taken it for the one-time extraordinary income. That is why.
Extra expense.
Huh?
Extra expense. Family pension.
Towards the one time extraordinary item towards the family pension. To the extent that the PCR has not gone up. Otherwise, whatever the provision we made towards the loan has taken towards the PCR.
Sorry. You're saying that 705 includes the INR 1,300 crore for pension?
No. It excludes that.
That's what I'm trying to understand if the loan loss provision was INR 2,700 crore
Yes.
If there was no write-off, the outstanding provision coverage should have gone up by the same amount, right? The opening was 36,991. If there was no provision, it should have gone up to 39,696. The closing figure of outstanding provisions is 37,074. Right. That is a difference of INR 2,622 crore. You have mentioned write-offs as INR 1,304 crore. I'm just trying to understand what is the gap. Where is the balance INR 1,318 crore?
Sir, the provisions that the write-off is INR 1,300 crore, what Mr. Ramchandra was telling, that this provision that we have made for that family pension has not come as a part of the Provision Coverage Ratio. That is only making this difference, sir.
You're saying INR 2,700 crore does not include the final provisions, right?
Yes.
No. No. It does not include family pension.
So that's-
Of course, there is a write-off is offset. To the extent we have written off a part of the loan, that is being offset.
That's what I'm trying to understand, sir. That if the—
Sir, we will come back with the details, sir. With respect to one more
Sir, our Majumder sir will be mailing you in detail.
Okay.
Please.
Okay, sir. We'll—
Thank you.
The second question was on the accounting change that you did, where you have mentioned in your notes to accounts that about 400 odd crores, INR 436 crores was the increase in interest income due to the change in accounting policy. INR 342 crore was the increase in gross NPA. In which head has this been accounted for in gross NPA?
Sir, existing or head only it has been adjusted.
Debits and existing NPAs.
Yes, exactly. It is existing. Sir, almost all our peer banks was following the process what we have done now. We have aligned ourselves in line with the industry, which we were not doing so far. It is for nothing but just to align ourselves with the industry, present industry.
No, I understand that. I'm just trying to understand where this INR 342 crore has gone in the NPA. Is it debits in existing NP accounts or is it fresh slippages?
No, sir. These are all existing NP accounts.
Okay. In the-
These are all existing accounts.
In the original treatment, your income would have been lower by INR 436.
Exactly.
Your outstanding gross NPA would have been lower by INR 342.
Provision also, corresponding provision also. Because if you see
What would be the balance, INR 90-odd crore, sir?
Sir, no. This is INR 436, the interest. Another, because some charges are there. Apart from interest, there are charges. The charges, it has gone into the charges.
Okay.
Other than interest.
All right, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you, Aditya. We have the next question from line of, Jai Mundra. Jai?
Yeah. Hi. Am I audible now, sir?
Yeah, please, Jai, you are clearly audible. Please.
Yeah. Great, sir. Congratulations on good quarter, sir. I have few questions. One is on capital, right? You have shown that CET1 has increased in absolute amount by INR 1,700 or 1,800 crore. Does this include PAT for this quarter?
Yeah. It includes PAT for the quarterly profits.
Sure. The increase is slightly higher than PAT. I mean, PAT is like INR 1,500 crore and the QOQ increase looks like INR 1,800 crore. Is it also the DTA unwinding, which is also happening here?
DTA unwinding.
Yeah. It is a small amount. Yeah.
Around INR 150 crore.
Yeah.
Sir, the DTA unwinding is a very small amount, insignificant amount this time, around INR 100-INR 150 crores.
Okay. Sure. Yeah, second, sir, do we have any erstwhile SDR or 5/25 cases also, which are standard?
Very negligible. It is very negligible.
We have about four, five accounts which are still there. That you know, that investment part is still continuing. Although now, some other restructurings have been done.
Okay. Understood. Just on NBFC, sir, if I look at this number, like over INR 1 lakh crore, so on as a percentage of loan, this is now 14.5%. NBFC as a segment, and even if you are not including MFI, this is like 14.5% of gross loans. Is there any internal threshold? I mean, what is the internal threshold that beyond which you would not be, you know, growing this segment as a percentage of total loan?
Our internal threshold is when you take exposure to double A and triple A, there is liberty to take it. Less than that, already we have a threshold not to take.
No, as a sectoral cap also, sir. You, NBFC, even if it is a triple-A, you would have some sectoral cap also, right?
Internally, we are permitted to go up to 16%.
Okay. Understood, sir. The last question, sir, from my side, is in ECLGS, right? If I look at this quarter ECLGS number, and if I compare that with last quarter ECLGS number, it looks like 5,000 plus increase in third quarter. Is that number right? Or, what has happened in ECLGS in this quarter? Why there is sudden spike?
This is as per the new norms that has come up, you know, ECLGS 2. Under that, we have given INR 5,000 is the correct number that we have given.
Okay. You have topped up ECLGS 1.0 with additional 10%.
Yes. That was yes, exactly. That was, you know, 10%, 20%. Now it has gone up to 40% in certain cases. We have done that.
Right. Understood. Sorry, if I may ask, sir, the, on your slide 45, which gives some guidance, I mean, it looks like you have not revised, you know, despite having, let us say GNPA is now lower than your guided range for March 2022, you are already below that. Basically this can go back to, I mean,
This, sir, this guidance is when we have given at the beginning of the financial year, and some modifications were there subsequently. Our philosophy is this will be the minimum and we'll be doing more than this what we are giving the guidance. It cannot fall below this guidance.
Right. No, just to understand, sir, this gross NPA number, I mean, as of now, it looks like, you know, it will increase. Because your actual is 7.8% and you have, you know, reported 7.9% as your sort of
Yeah. In the beginning, in my opening remarks I said, our endeavor will be whatever percentages we are having as on 31 December 2021, as on 31 March it will be better. Gross NPA 7.8%, we don't expect it will grow. Rather, we expect that it will come down. However, the guidance which we have given earlier, we don't want to change it so that we'll be doing what guidance we have given and what we have achieved. There will be it will be very attractive.
Understood, sir. Thank you so much, sir, and all the best.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you, Jai. Did you try and close the last question?
No, we'll close it.
Yeah. Before, sir, I hand over the call to Mr. Prabhakar, sir, for his closing remarks, thank you, Prabhakar, sir, and the entire Canara Bank team for giving Antique the opportunity to host you. We look forward to the same in the future as well. Over to you, Prabhakar, sir, for your closing remarks.
Sir, if the COVID situation improves, next time we will have the investors meet in person. Maybe in Mumbai, maybe in Delhi, or maybe in Bengaluru, as per the convenience of the investors. That is one wish which we have, to interact personally with our investors and to see them and let them also see us, how we are running this bank. I think I should thank all the investors for the support they are giving, because of which quarter-over-quarter we are giving results which are more than the market expectations. Our wish is to continue this. Thank you, sir.
Thank you everyone for logging in. Goodbye. Have a good evening. Thank you.
Thank you.