Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of Antique Stock Broking, I welcome you to Canara Bank's third quarter FY 2023 earnings call. Firstly, I thank the management team of Canara Bank for providing us this opportunity to host the call. Today we have with us the senior management team from Canara Bank. Mr. Debashish Mukherjee, Executive Director, Mr. K. Satyanarayana Raju, Executive Director, and Mr. Ashok Chandra, who is Executive Director. With this, I shall now hand over to the management of Canara Bank for opening remarks. Over to you, sir.
Good evening to all of you. On behalf of Canara Bank, we welcome you all for the analyst meet, sir. For the quarter, to review or to clarify the whatever the questions you raised by us, raised on this our Q3 performance. We would like to share with you some highlights of this performance. Our global business has crossed INR 20 lakh crore, stood at INR 20.14 lakh with a year-on-year growth rate of 13.63%. Our domestic business also has grown at 11.24%, stood at INR 18.8 lakh crore, sir. Our gross global advances have grown at 16.65% and stood at INR 8.51 lakh crore. Our domestic advances also has grown at 14.11%.
Our global deposits have grown at 11.51%. The domestic deposits have grown at 9.21%. With this business growth, our operating profit has increased year-on-year basis 19.80% and stood at INR 6,952 crore, which was led by a net interest income growth of 23.81% and the amount is INR 8,600 crore. Because of this steady increase in the operating profit, our net profit has increased 91.88% year-on-year. It stood at INR 2,882 crore. This is a all-time high in our last continuously several quarters. Our net NPA also. Gross NPA and net NPA has shown a visible decline in that.
Gross NPA has declined 191 basis points and stood at 5.89%. Our net NPA also has reduced 90 basis points and stood at 1.96%. Simultaneously, our PCR also has grown, and it has crossed the 86.32%, and almost 306 basis points year-on-year improvement is shown in that, sir. Further to this, our housing loan, retail growth and all continuing their steady growth. Our retail growth has continued at 11.30%, and our housing loan is growing at 15.81%. Our gold loan is continuing the growth in the industry, dominating the industry at 34.21%, and the portfolio stood at INR 1,15,286 crores.
Our fee-based income has increased at 13.02%, and return on equity increased 630 basis points and stood at 18.38%. Our CRAR, even with the 16%, more than 16% credit growth, we are able to maintain at a 16.72%, which is comparatively even sequentially as well as year-on-year, there is a steady growth in CRAR, sir. Our cost to income, we are maintaining well below the 45%, and it is at 44.40% with a year-on-year improvement of 184 basis points. I am sure that by this time you all people have might have gone through our presentation, which has been, yeah, given the clarity on many issues.
We just published, in various parameters the details. I would like to welcome all the analysts for any of your queries or the clarifications. The top management, we are all ready to answer your questions here, sir. We welcome you for asking any questions, sir.
Thank you, sir. Participants who wish to ask a question can kindly raise your hand. We have the first question from Mahrukh. Mahrukh, you have been unmuted. You can go ahead with your question. Mahrukh, you can unmute yourself and go ahead with the question.
Hi, yes. Hi. Hello? Hello?
Hello. Hello.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Can you hear me?
Yes, madam. We can hear you.
Yes, sir. Sir, first of all, congratulations on a very good set of numbers. My first question was in terms of corporate loan growth. Obviously your corporate loans have grown faster than RAM, and your international book has also grown very fast. What are the corporate sectors that have grown in the overseas loan book?
Can you hear us?
Yes, I can hear you, but it's not disturbance from my end, sir. Can you hear me now?
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay, sir, can you hear me?
Yes. Yes, I can hear you. Can you hear us?
Yes, I can, sir. Thank you.
Okay. Our loan growth, so far as the corporate sector is concerned, has been basing upon the growth in infrastructure sector, of course, is there, then iron and steel is there. Some commercial real estate also has happened. You can see that year-over-year and QOQ growth has been growth which has happened in the corporate book.
Okay, sir.
We propose to maintain this balance.
rapidly, just 21% in a single quarter. I know that the outlook is good, in a single quarter.
We'd like to clarify to you, madam. Actually, this corporate credit, no, it's a global corporate credit. Domestic corporate credit has grown year-over-year basis. It is a 14 point odd only, madam.
Right. Right. Right.
When it comes further to.
Uh-
Globally, we have lent some during this quarter some INR 15,000 crores on oil companies which are all triple A rated and the sovereign companies.
Mm.
Because of that, this growth is showing reflecting that it's one quarter it has been so high.
INR 15,000 crores to oil companies.
Otherwise the normal growth is, it is year on. The INR 15,000 crores into the oil companies in this quarter has reflected like that.
Got it.
Otherwise our corporate growth is in line with the RAM growth only around 14%.
Here I would like to add.
Right, sir.
I would like to add another point with regard to our corporate loan book. You know, 78% of our corporate loan book rated A and above, so the quality of assets are also , we are maintaining that.
Got it. Sir, why has real estate grown 21% sequentially in a single quarter? Any lumpy thing there or it's-
Because of the base, madam. Because of the base, low base.
Okay. Sir, any one-off in the interest income, either in investment income or interest on income tax refund, any one-off in the third quarter of 2023?
Not in this quarter.
Okay. Nothing like that, correct?
Not in this. No.
Sir, what would be your outlook on loan growth and on margins for the fourth quarter and for FY 2024?
Madam, so far for the first nine months, we already declared you that the credit growth is shown around 14%. The same 14% will continue. At least that is, we are confident that that 14%-15% growth will continue in the current quarter also in the credit growth.
Right.
Regarding the margins, the first, we are given a guidance for the earlier when the April during the first quarter that we will maintain the NIM at around 2.9%. We already now crossed the 2.93%. For the quarter, third quarter, we have crossed 3%, madam. That is our NIM was around 3.05%. With this, at because of the last quarter, September-October onwards, we have started giving a higher rate of interest on the deposit and with this we are continuing with the same rate of interest and we are sure that we will maintain that margins in and around of 3%.
Got it, sir. That helps, sir. Sir, just one last question. How much have you provided towards the new wage agreement this quarter and the provisions will remain constant from your own?
Yes, madam. Last time jo industrial settlement was approximately around 15%. The same 15% now for the last two months we are providing it on an average.
What is the exact amount, absolute amount?
That will be around seventy-.
That is.
70. 74
... per month it is coming around INR 70 crores, madam.
Okay. Thank you so much, sir, and all the best.
Thank you very much, madam.
Thank you. Nilesh Jethani, you can unmute yourselves and go ahead with the question, please.
Hi. Good evening, gentlemen, and thanks for the opportunity. My first question was on the deposit side. I believe in one of the TV interviews, we heard that Canara Bank was able to raise around INR 1 lakh crore on a gross level. When I see on a net level, the number comes out to be around INR 29,000-30,000 crores only. Can you just help me understand what is happening at a deposit level and what kind of growth do we see on a steady state growth function next 3-4 quarters perspective?
Would like to clarify to you that industrial deposit growth is industry-wise. It is overall around in and around of 9%, whereas we have grown at 11.25%. As you agreed that last time we have declared that we have garnered more than INR 1 lakh crore during that special scheme. I'm sure that you will agree with me saying that 90% of our term deposits, which are existing term deposits, are meant for the one year. Generally once the one year is over, there is a chance of either renewal or for the losing of that deposit.
This INR 1 lakh, what we have claimed earlier is in that special scheme, we got new deposits of INR 1 lakh crore. Ultimately, when you finally arrived that, the netting is what you are already seeing in that it has given the reflection of 11.50 approximately global deposits has grown at 11.51%.
Going ahead, since you also raised INR 1 lakh and I believe some part of your existing customer would have renewed to term deposit the savings guys. Going forward, what expectations do we carry as far as the deposit growth is concerned?
Since we are already performing better than the industry, recently also we have introduced one more scheme for 400 days at a much attractive rate of interest. The reason behind that, offering a better rate of interest is not just that we have any liquidity issue. We are very much comfortable with our liquidity issue, just we want to share whatever the benefits we are getting it when we are growing it. Because the customers are our major contributors for as a stakeholders in our growth, we want to share some part of that to towards the customer's benefit, depositor's benefit. That's why periodically we are reviewing our position and we are coming out with the new schemes.
Recently, 1 week back, we have come out with the 400 days scheme that is also as well received within 1 week only we have received very much traction on that, and we will continue to do these things. Another thing, this we don't have any liquidity issue. The reason is our CD ratio is still at 73%, whereas the industry is at 75%-78%. We have that comfort in that. We want to though the way we continue that 14% or 15% credit growth and with 11%-12% deposit growth, we are able to maintain that without any difficulty in the liquidity.
Got it, sir. That was really helpful. My second set of question was on the corporate loan side. Two piece to it. Out of total loan which we have given on the corporate on the incremental basis, ex the oil and gas international company, can you help me understand what portion would be towards greenfield CapEx or private CapEx, and what would be the working capital? Point two, also can you help me understand competition in the sector since one of the large private banks recently announced that they left INR 30,000-40,000 crore kind of a corporate loan because of increased competition? These two points if you are able to elaborate on the same.
You see, our loan book to corporate sector, is mostly divided into two parts, working capital and term loan. Term loan is predominantly more.
Mm-hmm.
So far as the so-called corporate loan is concerned, you know, what we understand as corporate loan, our loan book is not that high. We avoid, we go for project specific loans only, and working capital of course is there. That is how we actually go about in our corporate book.
Yes, out of the breakup, say if we have incremental INR 100 of corporate loan, what portion would be working capital and what portion would be project specific in last nine months?
It will be roughly 65%-70% is term loan only. Balance 35% roughly is around working capital.
Got it. sir competition-
You can say 65, 35. 65, 35 is the best proportion.
Okay, got it. Sir, competition in the sector. Any competition are you guys also facing or seeing intense competition?
You see, we are growing at 14% to 15% rate. It is not only this quarter, the previous quarter also we were growing in the same pace. Competition of course is there. Competition should be there also. We are, you know, maintaining our space. We are growing at a decent pace. I don't feel any problem with regard to growth in corporate credit. Of course, our emphasis is more on RAM, where we have about on and around 55%. Here it is around 45%. Same proportion we propose to maintain. Growth rate of course is very decent in both the sectors, RAM as well as corporate.
Got it, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. Miss Mona Ketan, you can unmute yourself and go ahead with your question, please.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Good evening. Am I audible?
Yes, madam. Audible. You can speak.
Sure. Thank you. Firstly on the credit cost front. If I look at the credit cost for this quarter, which is total provisions if I look at total provisions to loans, would be around 150 bits. Going forward, where do you think it will settle at, say, in FY 2024?
Yes, madam. You see that the credit cost is coming down slowly. The reason behind that is our corporate goal is always our recovery should be more than our slippages. There we are working very hard on that, both on the side of the underwriting standards as well as on the follow-up. You look at that, the sequentially even if you see that our year-on-year wise if you look at both the sides, our slippages are coming down drastically and continuously. Now our slippages is only INR 3,040 crores, whereas our recovery and upgradation together it is a more than INR 4,000 crores. That's where the actually the credit cost is gradually coming down. The second one is our risk-weighted assets. Our risk-weighted assets and the risk-weighted assets are gradually improving, quarter-on-quarter.
Now we have stood at 65%. These two things, majority already our colleague has shared with you that our corporate book. 78% is from only year and above rated. Only the remaining 22%, out of that 12% is triple B and 10% is double B. There is a reduction in the double B rated corporates. These are all the measures what we are taking now. It is giving a benefit for us, both sides in the as well as stress tester side as well as in underwriting standards also. That is helping us in maintaining this 1.21. The 1.21 is much less than what we have given the guidance to the market, and we are confident that we can maintain this.
Okay. 1.21 would be the NPA loss provisions to.
In and around the same level, madam. 10 basis points here and there, anytime. It can be less than that or it can be less. Our guidance we have given 1.5. We are maintaining at 1.4. We are maintaining at 1.2-1.25. That is the range. As on date, it is 1.21.
Sure. just trying to double check. when you give this guidance, is it related to the total provisions or just the loan loss provisions?
No, total provisions, madam.
Okay.
-taken into account. You look at that-
Sure.
Our PCR also is increasing steadily.
Sure. Got it. Secondly, if you could share the mix of EBLR and MCLR in your loan book.
Yes, madam. 49% of our advances are MCLR related and 38% is around RLLR. The remaining is staff loans against deposits, such type of loans.
Sure. This the repo link loans are immediately repriced.
38%, madam, that is it. Actually the last time, December, when the 35 basis points have been increased in the repo rate, we are not immediately pass it on to the customers. We have pass it on only in the January, whereas all other, our peer banks have pass it on in the December itself. We always considerate towards the customers, madam, because they are our stakeholders.
Okay. The reset period as such is immediate, you choose to pass on depending on.
RLLR always, it is whenever there is an ALCO committee is there. Post announcement from the regulator, whenever that ALCO committee meets, then they will pass it on to the customer. MCLR, it is resetting depending on the period they opt for that.
Okay. As such, the RLLR is immediate repricing, right?
Naturally, madam. That is actually the inbuilt of RLLR, madam. Repo rate is directly linked to the repo rate payment.
Okay. No, but what I was trying to understand is the reset period differs between banks. some banks have immediate repricing, some have three-month repricing, reset date. what is it in your case?
No, we are entitled for passing on the same day, next day.
Okay.
Generally we look at that, it's a business call. If we want to grow something, we want to certain areas we will pass it on the next month or we will pass it on to the on the same immediately. Generally, it will be decided in the ALCO committee, madam.
What you are referring to, Mona Khetan, is basically the MCLR reset dates. MCLR reset dates falls on various dates depending on when it was applicable. That we keep on changing accordingly.
Sure. Got it. On the slippages front, if you could share the breakup of your slippages within the various segments.
Around INR 1,050 crore is from agriculture, madam. INR 1,150 crore is from MSME. Around INR 750 crore from retail, madam. We don't have any corporate side slippage in this quarter.
Okay. INR 1,150 from MSME?
Yes, madam.
Okay. If you could also share the slippages from restructured book so far?
No, actually there is an RF 1 and RF two. RF 1, the slippage is around 2.8%, madam. RF 2, it is related to the MSME and retail. It is around 14%, madam.
Okay. If you could share the total quantum and also the total restructured book, if I have to include the MSME and both RF 1, RF 2 and exclude the common.
I'm sharing with you the outstandings, whatever it is there as on December 31, madam.
Okay.
RF 1 is outstanding is INR 2,800 crores. RF 2 is around INR 11,500 crores, madam.
Okay. The slippage from INR 2,800 is 2.8%?
Yes, madam.
The second one, INR 11,500 is?
It is 14%.
14%. Okay. The MSME book?
RF 2 is an MSME part of that.
Okay.
The MSME is originally it isn't there. There also it is the slippage is around 12%-13%, madam.
Okay.
There the outstanding is INR 2,200 crores.
Okay. If I have to look at the total restructured book, it will be around.
16,000-
INR 16,000 or thereabout. Okay. Got it. Got it. How much of slippage?
Mona, kindly request you to join the queue as there are several participants. Thank you. Mr. Ashok, you can unmute yourself and go ahead with the question, please.
Good afternoon, sir, and congratulations-
Good afternoon, sir.
to you, Sir Raju, for taking over the MD and CEO-ship of such a large bank, Canara Bank. We are, I think, meeting you for the first time in this analyst meet of Canara Bank, and all the best to you with that. Sir, I would also like to compliment, the bank, the entire top management and the people at the bank for giving another... Of course, I see Ashok Chandra ji also. Sir, welcome to you and seeing you.
Thank you.
Now at Canara Bank on a lighter note. Sir, and compliments to you for yet another set of good numbers. Sir, I joined little late because I was in the other bank's conference. I don't know whether this point is covered or not. So my first, sir, question or other, some information point is on the technology front. On the IT front, where do we stand? Because I remember Canara Bank, long back, years back, was the least IT bank. I mean, it started very late on the IT, but now, of course, it has caught up very well. So what are our present position? What are the budgets? How are we going end-to-end solution for the entire bank? Or how are you making it as a digi bank?
Some views on that, sir. The budget.
Definitely, sir. Definitely. I would like to share with you that MeitY generally assess all the Indian banks, whether it is a private sector or a public sector, based on certain journeys of they are undertaken, and it is reflected the transactions in those journeys. According to those journeys, like a semi-urban, rural, northeastern states and all, everything will be taken into account. Based on those things, 2021/2022 financial year, previous year, the MeitY has ranked Canara Bank as number 1 in India among 47 public sector and private sector banks together.
Oh, very good.
That shows the way what we are adapting the technology, how fast we are reacting to that. The steps what we are taking is resulting in the number of transactions, how it is improving quantum-wise. Just 2 years back, we were at 192 crores transactions. Last year it has gone up to the 258 crores, and this year already we crossed 330 crores, and we are left with more months, and we are sure that we are going to cross 400 crores. The major contribution what we are getting it is the initiation what we have taken in upgradation version of our mobile app Canara ai1. It has been introduced in July, June, July last year.
Within six months, we got a 4.2-4.3 public rating on the Play Store, sir. This is the people generally whoever is using that, they felt it very customer friendly with an innovative versions like whenever you feel some discomfort or some suspected transactions in any of the mode, we have given a liberty to the customers that they can block in and block out. This feature has been introduced by us. That has been attracted by the customers very well. In just one year, our onboarding the customers and active customers have increased from 77 lakhs to 155 lakhs.
Oh.
Simultaneously, we realized that our penetration in the rural and semi-urban, our concentration is very high because 60% of our branches are in rural and semi-urban. We thought that popularizing a QR code will be another area so that you can bring our rural and semi-urban customers into the digital front. That's why we initiated the QR code popularization in addition to the BHIM QR code. This QR code will be generated not at the central level. Every each branch, they can generate and give it to the customers. Last 12 months, we have distributed more than 21 lakh QR codes, and this is the highest among the public sector banks.
Oh.
That QR codes also in addition to that, to make them more comfortable, these digital fronts, whatever we are taking, we are taking in the local language, vernacular languages, 11 languages we are introducing it. Another one what we are doing is we created a QR code app that is like a passbook. It's, the generally when you find a mobile app, you will have a passbook. One vendor, if suppose he is having four QR codes or four pass machines with different outlets, he should be able to readily verify the QR code-wise reconciliation. To make that more comfortable, we created this app, and this has been given to all the people. It is also Canara ai1 Merchant App. That is also as well received so that reconciliation will not be a problem.
For any transaction, they need not go through their pass book. They can look at only for this app and the pass machine wise or QR code wise they can reconcile it. The third one is in India, first bank who has introduced audio system in confirming that a transaction success in the QR code. It has been first experimented in the Bangalore, and it is well received by the people. So far only India only private operators only is providing that audio, the QR code box. Whereas the now in the banks, we are the first bank, we are enhancing to entire country by this month end, and definitely that will have a game changer. The another initiatives is we are also is participating.
It is in the UAT stage that CBDC, and definitely we will come out immediately whenever that's everything infrastructure is ready. Once the UAT is over, we also will come out with the CBDC. We are going for that digital lending platform, comprehensively end-to-end, so that our majority of the RAM we want to route through the digital front. That we are going to achieve it by next six months. We are working very hard on that. In addition to that, we want to provide API banking to our corporates. That is an another game changer for our CASA. We know that we have to work hard on our CASA. We are taking several initiatives on the CASA.
This is one of that we are dealing with the corporates, but we are unable to encash it because of lack of the technology platform, but we are coming out with that API banking within this month, next week, with the 15 features. Several such, even in the cloud, even in many such areas, we are working on that. Many initiatives have been taken. Just two years back, we invested INR 700 crores. Last year, we invested INR 1,000 crores. This year, we have budgeted for INR 1,400 crores, and next year we'll continue for higher implementation of the technology, sir.
Thank you very much for, sir, for taking us such a long journey of your IT journey. It's good to know many of these things were not known, basically. Yes, thanks a lot for... Such a, with a great speed you have taken us through the entire journey. Point well taken, sir, and we give credit to you for the same. Sir, I have got a couple of other some questions and some data point. One is that, in that, point number 17, SR of INR 533 crore, the provision figure is not given. I believe it must have been provided 100%.
Yes, yes.
Yes, sir.
Okay. If INR 533 crore is fully provided for. Sir, can you just run through for note number 20, sir, where the, you know, the taxation DTA and PNL INR 2,490 crore, then we have taken the provision which was earlier provided in 2021-2022 of INR 1,578 crore reduced from that. That is reversed. INR 443 crore change in the... because of the new tax regime. Can somebody like we have this year the tax provision of INR 949 crore-
Our CFO will clarify to you, sir, exactly that regarding on that tax benefit and all that. Mr. Mazumdar is our CFO. He is clarifying to you.
Sir.
Yes, sir. Please.
Yes, sir.
Please.
Sir, your query is that why we have provided higher tax or what exactly is the query?
No, no. I just want to know number one.
No, no.
We have come in the new tax regime now.
Yes, sir.
What is the DTA figure now left? Here INR 2,490 crore would have been into the profit and loss account in this quarter. The excess provision of 2021-2022 of INR 1,578 crore has been reversed. Going forward, where do we stand? What will be the picture on 31st March 2023?
Sir, our DTA is.
Our DTA.
You are not audible, sir.
Sir, our DTA presently is at around INR 6,600 crore. If you know that, in as far as DTA is concerned, that up to CET 10% of.
Yes
my capital is, it is allowable. I am only maybe INR 200 crore-INR 300 crore more than that. With this quarter profit, this we say for the March quarter profit, I will be coming to a DTA level which is just about 10% of CET1. Which I did not provide any additional for that. That is one part of it. That is when I talk about what is DTA and providing.
Yes.
Another question is maybe that when you are, when I have moved into a lower tax regime, that how my tax, like, my provision-?
Yes
I have a provision of around INR 900 crore which we have provided. Sir, whatever accumulated losses I had at the beginning of the year, that was around INR 7,300 crore-INR 7,400 crore. That entire amount has been completely wiped off now till by December. I do not have any accumulated losses. My slippages are coming down. That way, my provisions are coming down. My realizations are going up. My provisions are getting reversed. My taxable income that way is going up. That is how that this a bit higher you may feel that in spite of my reduction there is INR 900 crore. That is mainly due to that I no longer have any accumulated losses with me.
My, my deductions, taxable deductions in the form of provisions, more NPAs and provisions are coming down. I have to now provide more for tax because taxable income is growing.
Yeah. now whatever profit we have now in the, in the March quarter, we will have to provide additionally to that extent, bearing some set-offs, small amount.
Exactly. Exactly.
...clear picture. Thank you very much for the same, sir. Sir, my last question in this round, sir, Raju sir.
Sir.
Is on the credit growth, sir. Our domestic credit growth this quarter was 2.67% and overall 3.26%. I might have missed some initial comments of yours, but just in order to for myself to be little comfortable,
No problem, sir.
Hello? What kind of, like, figure we look for March quarter, number one? Going forward, 2023, 2024, when overall credit scenario is improving?
You are a large bank, I understand. Where do we stand on the credit growth front? You are already, I think, CD is around 73.5%. So going forward, will you also be comfortable up to 79%-80% going it forward with such kind of profitability?
Sir, actually the for current nine months period, the domestic gross, advances growth is around 14%.
Okay.
Our RAM also is growing around 13.81, means more or less 14%. This 14%, whatever we have first nine months we have grown, we are confident that this current quarter also we will grow at least minimum that 14%. That is a guidance for what we are going to give to the analyst, sir. Regarding next year, we feel that the same tempo will continue unless otherwise any unexpected things happens. Otherwise we are more or less in the 14%-15% growth rate will be there. Another question what you are asked about CD ratio.
Yes.
CD ratio, actually earlier we have started our journey just two years back we were at 67%. Now we have came up to that 73.51%. Suddenly we don't want to jump into that 79%, but we are aiming for 75%, 1 or 2% in and around. That is our actually the guidance we are looking at, and we will work on that, sir. Because presently we are at 73.8%, 73.5%, and we may look at 75%, 1% or 2% here and there.
Am I permitted to ask one more, moderator?
No, sir. Sorry. There are several questions.
Thank you. Thank you, sir. I'll come back.
Mr. Deepak, you can unmute yourself and go ahead with the question.
Hello.
Hello, sir.
Thank you very much, sir, for the opportunity. First, I have two questions. Now number one is I just wanted to understand our provision coverage ratio currently at 87% around has been on an increasing trend. So what is the optimum or steady-state level we are looking at in terms of our PCR ratio? My second question is in terms of for ROA. I mean, what sort of ROA vision we would have maybe for the next year or only these are anything over?
Sir, first to the provision coverage ratio. Provision coverage ratio, we have not kept a target that something we have to achieve it like that. We want to make our balance sheet is a future ready, as we were telling for last two years. We want to continue that. Whenever we have the sufficient profits in that, we want to strengthen our balance sheet by seeing that as much as possible to provide for our stress assets. Our continue whatever last one year we have increased at almost 300 basis points. The same tempo will continue in the future also. The provision coverage ratio will gradually increase, show a steady growth on that. The second question, sir, what you asked?
ROA.
Ah.
0.76.
Return on asset. This is actually we have achieved it 0.76%, sir. What we have given last time your guidance is.
Point 7.
0.70. Whatever the guidance we have given it for March it is 0.70, we have already achieved at 0.76. Definitely the same tempo will continue in the future also, sir.
I mean, is there any purposes to target at least 1% ROA next year?
That's what I'm telling quarter-on-quarter there will be a steady growth. We may aim for the 1%, we may come 5 basis points here and there.
Okay. Yeah, that's fair enough. I mean, even we are targeting maybe 90 to 100 basis point kind of for ROA.
Because next year, whatever the budget said, this to be discussed in the board and then we will come out with the guidance to the public. Generally, with the same tempo, what we are showing for the last four or five quarters, I am sure that we will be nearer to the 1% with the 5 basis points here and there.
Right. Fair enough. In terms of, PCR, just a follow-up on that. 90%-95% is the level that we want to achieve even at this level or whether this 85% is the optimum, PCR level that you will-
No, sir. If it is 85% is optimum, then we wouldn't have showed 86.3, no. We already shown that PCR is 86.3.
Correct.
We are aiming that every quarter let us show some 1% additional comfort in the form of, additional PCR. We are trying to do that.
I understand. Fair enough. Okay. Yep, that's it from my side, sir. All the very best. Thank you.
Thank you very much, Deepak Kumar.
Mr. Jai Mundra, you can unmute yourself and go ahead with the question.
Hi, good evening, sir, and thanks for the opportunity.
Good evening, Mundra ji.
Sir, my question is on incremental margins, right? If I look at four, four schemes, and there the bank is giving a deposit rate, very lucrative deposit rate of 7.1% plus, right? Our current NIMs are 3% almost. This 7.1% deposit scheme, right? This is clearly NIMs dilutive, right? You have some loan products which are yielding you more than 10%. I wanted to understand-
Yes, sir. No, no. That is a... See, always your credit portfolio will be a combination of those things, sir. Whatever the pricing we have shown to the people or whatever it is, it is ranging from to medium risk, moderate risk and all. Moderate risk people may be paying a higher rate of interest. That is the reason you look at that even last quarter, entire quarter, we have offered 7.5%, 7% plus 0.5% for senior citizen on 666-Day Deposit Scheme. That has been launched on October 6th. Throughout the quarter, we paid that 7.5% on the deposits. We have almost more than INR 1 lakh crore we garnered in that scheme. Even then we could manage that cost of deposit is four point...
It has increased from 4.09 to 4.19. Yield on advances, you look at that, we have increased almost 20 basis points. With that comfort we are sure that we can manage this. We have shown that 3% margin can be easily manageable. Let me correct to you that our deposit is 400 days. Based on our comfort only we are offering those periods.
It is basically a weighted average cost. You know, it is not that the whole portfolio of deposit will consist of this 400 days deposits. It is better depicted in cost of deposits and yield on advances. There I think we will be able to get better NIMs.
I agree, sir, that this is on weighted average one should see, but I was asking from incremental perspective, of course, there are a lot of tailwinds, right? You have had EBLR portfolio has been repriced by 225 basis points, give or take, right? Hence we have had NIMs which are 3% multi-quarters, multi-years high. If on incremental yields are such that if this deposit schemes of 400 days is actually NIMs dilutive, on an incremental basis, then NIMs will come off mathematically, right? I wanted to check.
Sir, it's like-
Yeah.
We will do some course correction and balancing, of course. It is not that once we have introduced a scheme, it will continue for a long time. If the interest rate scenario changes drastically, which we don't foresee right now, then of course, we also have to do some corrections in the liability space so far as the rates are concerned. As on today, we've thought that this is the optimal balancing what we are having today, NIM of around 3%. As on today, we expect that to continue. That is what we want to say.
Another, Munraji, this offering of special deposits is not an unlimited period, sir. These schemes always will be a limited period to the extent of our appetite. Whenever we feel that our appetite is completed, we will withdraw that schemes.
No, of course, sir. What I wanted to check is there any product on the lending side which is yielding you, let's say, 10%? you know
Many such products will be there, sir. Many such products will be there. We have a Canara Budget scheme that will attract, it's 11.5%. There is almost INR 19,000 cross-portfolio. Like that, several schemes are there. We have ample schemes. It's the bucket-wise if you compare, no, it is easily manageable. That's not a big issue.
Sure. Sure. Okay. Sir, on your gold loan, if you can bifurcate, of your INR 1 lakh crore plus gold loan, how much is agri-bagged and how much is retail gold? If you have a specific strategy to grow the retail gold loan book.
As on date, our 95% to 96% is agriculture only, sir, in the gold loan. Because our major gold loan contribution has come from South India, where our branches are located mostly in the rural and semi-urban branches. That retail products also is there. There the traction is there. We look at that keeping on our commercials, where the retail rate of retail we may not able to offer the competitive rate. Retail there is a product, there is a traction, but the portfolio is around INR 5,000 crores.
Understood. Sir, if I were to see your PSL income. Usually it will have some seasonal, seasonality around it. Third quarter, I think the PSL income is very, very minuscule at around INR 70 crores. The fourth quarter, I mean, has been the seasonality. Should it be like similar to three quarter or third quarter, or it can rise substantially or it will only rise going into next financial year, first quarter, second quarter?
Normally, fourth quarter would also we are expecting it to be equally muted. It all depends on the other bank's appetite, you know, it's a marketplace. We are ready with surplus PSLCs, to issue, but we don't foresee much of a traction in that in the fourth quarter.
Lastly, two questions, sir. One is what would be your NPA recovery expectations in fourth quarter? There are a lot of assets which are nearing resolution. You know, some of them are large, some of them are medium-sized. What would be your best guess for recovery, including NCLT and everything in fourth quarter?
Sir, we would keep it like this, that on a quarter-to-quarter basis, our recoveries have been or reduction has been more than our slippages.
Right.
That trend will continue, sir. With, you know, regard to the specific numbers, it is premature. Yes, you are right. In many such bigger cases, we are nearing the resolution stage, but unless the money comes, you know, we have seen this happening previous quarters also. That money was supposed to come, it didn't come, so there was a spill-over. We want to keep it like that, sir, in this interaction that, yes, we will maintain that trend of more recovery than the slippages.
Further last two clarifications, sir.
Uh-
Yeah, one is our capital number that is shown, that includes the interim 9-month PAT, right? That is first clarification.
Yes, sir. Yes. That is there. That is a part of that.
Sorry, the interim PAT is included, right? That is-
Yes, sir.
-in the CD. Sure. Second clarification, sir, I just missed that INR 15,000 crore of oil and petroleum disbursements in this quarter, they are there in overseas book or... Because overseas book, I think-
Overseas.
Overseas book, sir.
These are in overseas.
Overseas. Overseas book.
Sir, that quantum is not that, QOQ increase if I see is not to that extent, right?
No, it is there, sir. From INR 33,000 to it has increased to INR 50,000. Out of that, INR 15,000 is from oil companies in the overseas.
Okay. Great, sir. Thank you very much and all the very best.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Mr. Anand, you can unmute yourself and go ahead with the question.
Thank you, sir, for the opportunity. First and foremost, your OpEx seems to be far, far lower. Is it that basically you are undercutting on the OpEx front, not adding as much of franchise or people on the ground? Because, in a current scenario, you will need a lot of deposits. Basically, you are trying to mobilize deposits largely through offering higher rates rather than, you know, expanding branches as much that you need to. Any comments over there, sir?
Regarding the operating expenses, your question is. Operating expenses, we are the one bank among these amalgamated banks. As best use their synergy benefit. You can look at, you can compare among all these five, six banks which are subjected for the amalgamation. We are able to maintain that operating expenses very controllable, under control. The reason behind that is we are using our resources very optimally. While closing down the outlets or while redeploying our units, we are looking at only the area where we it is a potential. Wherever certain leakages were there, that we could plug in very well. That is the reason one, our operating expenses are very efficient. Especially when there is an amalgamation, we got an opportunity to renegotiate with all our 10,000 landlords.
10,000 plus 14,000 ATM landlords on the rental values. There we could save lot of money due to corona or whatever it is there, competition is there in the market. Almost every year we are saving nearer to INR 160 crores what we are paying. We have saved money. If you look at the 10 years, next 10 years, it works around more than INR 2,000 crores. The same thing when our volumes became a double, we could renegotiate with all our vendors in the technology and in, we have saved in one year almost more than INR 500 crores. It is not that we are compromising with our network or anything. Even now you can compare that our branch network is much, much bigger than all our peer banks.
We are not too keen on closing all the branches wherever it is unremunerative and all. We will continue those branches. At the same time, enhancement when you go for the... Instead of going for an ATM, we are looking at with the same transactions, same type of services we can extend through BC point. We are focusing more on BC, extending the BC point. You can easily make out that September we were BC points are 8,900. Recently we have crossed almost to 14,000. We have recruited almost 6,000 BCs in this last one or two months. We want to expand our outlets, we want to expand our services, but at a better operating, with a minimal operating expenses.
That is the reason it is showing that our OpEx is under control.
Hope so. Basically, sir, if you look at your CASA ratios even during the best of the times were not as good as one would have expected it to be after the.
No.
Now you are facing a lot of challenges on the deposits front. That's the reason the kind of scheme that you're offering, could hurt your margins going forward.
No. Here, sir, let me come in. our OpEx expenditure, what you are saying, operating expenditure, it is not that we are, you know, reducing our expenditure for garnering of deposits. No. Our branch network is there. We are, having enhanced BC network. From there we can garner CASA. It is not our intention to do wholesale banking from the liabilities side. No. We still intend to go deeper and, you know, from our own customer as well as bringing in fresh customers, we want to increase our CASA. That will be our endeavor for the coming quarters as well.
That is the reason we are investing heavily on the technology, sir, to garner this CASA. We know that our CASA is low historically, but we want to correct that and you will see in the next few coming quarters that clear change in that CASA, sir. That is why we are coming out with heavily investing on the technology to attract more younger generation as well as various sectors.
Secondly, on the ECL provision norms which have just come up, any impact that you can talk about that you have calculated? Because I believe that parallelly you also submit your accounts based on IFRS to RBI. At least there we would have some.
The question.
That is just an exercise which we do because RBI, as you all know, have not yet come out with any guidelines with regard to IND AS for the banks. That is an exercise which we'll continue to do. No impact so far as our bank is concerned because we are not following IND AS. I want to keep it at that only.
If you have to, then, any rough estimate that you have made?
No, one thing we can say that the gap, that capital gap that will arise, we are at par with all our peers. In fact, we may be a bit better off. This much we only can say that from the capital point of view, the extra provisions that goes into that, what the gap that exists, we are no less. This much we can say at this point.
We are not more than.
We are not more than that. We are at par with all our peers.
Sure, sir. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. Mr. Pranav, you can unmute yourselves and go ahead with your question.
Hi, sir. Congratulations on the great set of numbers. Sir, I have just one question. You took a number of price hikes in loans and also, hikes in deposit rates. I just wanted to understand that what percent of book has been, in loan book has actually out of price hikes, so how much of it is coming, yet to come time-weighted? For example, say you have taken 35 basis point hikes, then how much of the book is still remaining, because of the time difference? Some of the loans will, get reset on say, X number amount of date, X number of date. How much of same thing for deposit rates. Basically incremental spread, on existing book, on existing rates, weighted average, what is that? Is it above-
Sir-
current NIM or below current NIM? Thanks a lot.
It is related to the repo rate linked rates. We already clarified to the people that it's our 38% of portfolio is RLLR linked. There it is already affected. The remaining 49% of MCLR is one month, three months, six months and one year MCLR. That is the resetting dates. We have started growing these things for last two, the October is that August something is there, and now December is we have affected in the January. January, whatever we are affected, that will you will get where the our majority of the even 80% of our loans are one year resetting loans.
Because in those one-year resetting loans, it will you will get it benefit only after up to the December, whatever it is happened, only that you are entitled for recovery till the one year is over. That will have an impact on that. As and when it has come for the resetting. I don't think it will have an impact on our NIM at any cost because you look at the market, even now, today, our MCLR is less than the all the big peer banks. We are not positive-
Right, sir.
Whatever the exactly other banks are passing on to the borrowers.
Right, sir. On the deposit side, you have taken whatever hikes you have given, are they completely in the base or still there will be some increase in deposit rates going forward? Like, I'm saying.
As it is.
existing rates, not-
The rate of interest and deposit defines depending on our liquidity comfort, sir. As on date, we are comfortable to match what we projected in the credit growth. I don't foresee any, a big change in that deposit rates near future.
sir, I am not asking about new hikes. if suppose repo gets above some certain level, you will.
See, look at that, sir. That scheme, when you are given we have a term deposits of INR 6.5 lakh crore. The scheme, what we introduced is we got it around INR 80,000-INR 90,000. That means remaining are with the normal rate now.
Right.
It's not that when we offered a special scheme, all deposits will convert into that special scheme.
No, no, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that is three months of rate hikes of deposits is in interest expense of this month. That's it. I'm not saying anything other than that.
Last quarter when we enhanced it to from October sixth onwards, that means entire quarter has been already passed on.
Perfect. Perfect. That means that in the short term, that is Q4 , Q1 , if everything remains same, then our NIM is in the same narrow range. Is that right?
We are confident. We are confident, sir, that
Super. Thanks a lot, sir.
Thank you. sir, we have one question, from the chat box. sir, Q on Q jump in interest income was quite high at 11%. Is there any one-off?
No, madam.
Okay. sir, any plans in capital raising?
No. Actually, as it is, we are already growing quarter-on-quarter. Our CRAR is improving comfortably. We are comfortable above 16%. Still, our board has approved last during the last first quarter, that's almost INR 9,000 crores. Out of that we have already raised INR 6,000 crores. There is a gap of INR 3,000 crores. Depending on our cost and requirement only, we will look into that on the appropriate time whether to go for that INR 3,000 crores or not.
Okay, thank you. Sir, we'll take that as the last question. Participants, thank you for participating in the conference call. Thank you, sir, I'll hand over the management for the closing remarks. Over to you, sir.
Thank you. Thank you so much, all the analysts who have participated and taken so much pain to participate in this, sir. We can assure you from the top management that whatever the performance we are showing consistently for the last several quarters, it will continue in the future also with much more aggression in the technology side. We are actually thinking of focusing more on reconnecting the customers through a better technology. We are sure, we can assure you that this performance will continue.
Thank you so much, sir.
Thank you once again, sir.
With this, I shall now end the meeting. Thank you.
Thank you.