Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Cello World Q3 FY 2024 earnings conference call hosted by ICICI Securities. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Aniruddha Joshi from ICICI Securities. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yeah, thanks, Aditya. On behalf of ICICI Securities, we welcome you all to Q3 FY 2024 results conference call of Cello World. We have with us senior management represented by Mr. Pradeep Rathod, Chairman and Managing Director; Mr. Santosh Rathod, Joint Managing Director; Mr. Gaurav Rathod, Joint Managing Director; and Mr. Atul Parolia, Chief Finance Officer. Now, I hand over the call to the management for initial comments on the quarterly performance, and then we will open the floor for question and answer session. Thanks, and over to you, sir.
Good morning, everybody. A very warm welcome to everybody present on the call. Along with me, I'm joined by Santosh Rathod, who is the Joint Managing Director, and our CFO, Mr. Atul Parolia, and our investor relations advisor, SGA. The results and the presentations are already uploaded on the stock exchange and the company website. I hope everybody had a chance to look at it. Cello World had a decent quarter in terms of revenue and profitability. During quarter three of FY 2024, we achieved revenue of INR 527 crores, EBITDA of around INR 137 crores, and PAT of around INR 90 crores. Quarter three of FY 2024 revenues grew by 24%. EBITDA grew by 30%, and PAT grew by 30.4% on a year-over-year basis. As mentioned earlier, these growth numbers are estimates. Kindly note that the multiple partnership firms got merged in FY 2023.
Hence, our comparative data for the same quarter of the previous financial year is not audited. The growth figures mentioned are approximate numbers. Throughout the festival season, we observed improved growth momentum. We are continuously adding new and different creative products to our portfolio, which is helping us improve sales and increase market share. Our strategies involve extending our sales and distribution network to enhance customer base share, establish partnerships with additional distributors, and fortify our brand presence. Capital expenditure for the nine months of FY 2024 amounted to INR 168 crores, including capital work in progress of approximately INR 48 crores. Anticipated total capital expenditure for the current year is around INR 250 crores. We have consistently demonstrated a robust track record on OCF and EBITDA conversion in recent years. As we optimize the utilization of our asset base, hence the return itself should remain strong.
With this belief, I would like to hand over to our CFO, Mr. Atul Parolia, for financial updates.
Thank you, Mr. Pradeep Rathod, and good morning, everyone. Before I give you a synopsis of financial performance, I would like to highlight that this entity is a combination of all consumer businesses of the promoter group. The group is researching while undertaking to consolidate the business under that company. However, proper financial first year can be comparable only on a full-year basis. Talking about the Q3 FY 2024 performance. During Q3 FY 2024, we achieved revenue of INR 527 crore, EBITDA of INR 137 crore. EBITDA margin stood at healthy 20.90%. For Q3 FY 2024, revenue grew 24%, EBITDA grew by 30%, and PAT grew by 30.4% on a year-over-year basis. As mentioned earlier, these growth numbers are estimates.
Coming to our nine-month FY 2024 performance, we registered a top line of INR 1,488 crore, of which 67% came from the consumerware, 16.5% from lighting solutions, and the remaining 16.5% from the molded furniture and allied products. The performance has been led by the volume growth and product mix. There was a de-growth in product pricing owing to raw material decline and pass-through. In terms of channel mix, we have a strong presence in general trade, which contributed 37.6% of our sales. Export revenues were about 9.3%, and online sales contributed about 8.6% of the top line. The remaining 4.5% came from the modern trade. We believe that there is a potential to increase contribution from both online and modern trade channels in the future. Gross profit stood at INR 780 crore, that is 52.5% margin. GP margin of consumerware was 52.3%.
GP margin of lighting solutions was 58.7% due to our continuous focus on product mix and valued products, and our margin profile in this particular is higher than the industry. Molded furniture and allied products had a GP margin of 44.5%. EBITDA came in INR 395 crore, that is 26.5% margin. EBITDA margin profile across verticals is also very healthy.
Was around INR 242 crore with 13.3% margin. The growth opportunity ahead of us are vast and healthy cash flow and balance sheet. We are well-positioned to seize upcoming opportunities. With this, we open the floor for questions and answers. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking the question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Our first question is from the line of Percy from IIFL. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Congrats on a good set of numbers. Just on memorandum basis, if you can help us understand the YOY growth of different segments, that will be very useful. Thank you.
Yes. In consumerware, we have grown 15.4% on revenue. In writing instruments, we have grown 28.6%. No, 20%. For molded furniture and allied products, we have grown around 2% on the revenue side.
Right. Thank you very much for that information. Secondly, I just wanted to understand your margin trajectory going ahead. Now with the input prices coming down, you are seeing a margin expansion. How much of this do you think is sustainable in the longer run? Do you need to pass on anything further to the consumer? Should we be, therefore, building in some moderation in the margins? What we think also, your growth is good; the demand environment overall is quite subdued. In order to spur growth, do you need to do anything like that?
No. Yes, definitely we did pass on whatever we could achieve more margins from our raw material pricing is softening. Raw material pricing at this level is gone up by around 3%-5%, what it had come down by 20% from last year till the first two and a half, three quarters. It is little up now, and I think so we will be able to sustain our margins if not increase further from here. As such, February is already passed, and we are in the middle of February, so that is what we are seeing. Yes, definitely the growth is not very high in the consumer market. It is a little muted still.
That is why in my first statement also, we said we could have achieved better if the market position was good. That is why it is a decent quarter, not the best quarter. That is what we feel. Going forward, if the consumer demand increases, there will be an advantage on the margins also of the company forward.
Right, sir. Can you help us understand the seasonality between the December quarter and the March quarter? Typically, on sales, March quarter in a normal year is typically what percentage of the December quarter? Also, in terms of margins in March quarter margins, are they higher or lower than the December quarter EBITDA margins?
Yes, definitely our March quarter will be in line with our third quarter, which is there. Because October, November, December, Diwali being this year in November, that is why it was good. Our March quarter is always better than post-Diwali quarter. On margin, on product lines, around 100%. Because we will be in line of the margins what we are seeing.
Understood, sir. Any reason why the March quarter is as good or better than the Diwali quarter? Because I thought Diwali will be the time where there will be a lot of—
No, because summer also in India is little less than what we see in the western world. It is a very big season, and it is a long season, in fact. After the back-to-school.
Right.
Then back to school again is good in consumer side. Not a material value proposition.
Understood. Last question from my side is, how do you see the margins of the glassware segment? What I understand is that this is a kind of plant which has to be run continuously.
Yeah.
For the demand to come up, it might take some time. In the initial phase, whatever you produce might have to be sold at a very low cost, either in an export or in some wholesale or something like that. Do you see any margin pressure in the initial few quarters while this plant ramps up?
We have been running this similar plant in our cookware, which is also 24 by 7, 365 days working. In our glass, which we are starting this borosilicate glass, which we start in around first quarter of FY 2025. FY 2025 we go up because in glass, always you cannot be selling everything what you produce on the day one. Accordingly, this pricing will not get muted. I think the margin levels after two quarters of running, it will be at the same level, what we have projected.
Okay. Even assuming good demand in the glassware typically would have lower margin than cookware, right? At blended level, do you see any margin pressure?
Not really. What kind of product mix you do accordingly, because there are segments in glassware which gives really good margin on that. What we have projected and what plus we are trying to develop, I think it will be line. A percentage or two, there or minus.
Okay.
But the capacity is much higher in terms of tonnage go there, occupancy. So that will give us a better cost also.
Understood. That's all from me. Thanks and all the best.
Thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen, a reminder to all participants: you may press star and one to ask question. Our next question is from the line of Achal from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Yeah.
Yeah. Good morning, team. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, can you just clarify, you mentioned revenue 24%, EBITDA 30%, PAT 30% growth. Was that for Q3, or was that for nine months?
It was for Q3.
Okay. But you also mentioned numbers of 15.4% for consumerware, writing instrument 20%, furniture 2%. Again, was that for Q3 or—
No, that's for nine months.
That's for nine months.
Year to date. Yeah.
Yes. Okay. Sir, since you've given the revenue kind of growth, can you also help us understand in terms of the volume growth for each of these three segments about that number for third quarter and nine months?
If I go, I think the volume growth for our consumerware would be at least 5% to 6% more than the value growth.
Okay.
As earlier also stated in the last quarter meeting, because of the raw material, we are passing on some part of it, and even writing instrument is not much. Volume and value is almost similar.
Okay.
2% maybe. And furniture, of course, it is around 14% to 15% volume growth.
14% to 15% volume.
Yeah. Volume is around 14%-15% growth. Value is only 2%.
Okay. If you could also help us for nine months, sir?
That is for nine months.
This is for nine months.
Yeah.
Could you have for Q3 as well, sir?
Q3-
It will be nine only.
It would be almost similar because the raw material for the first three quarters was lower only, and accordingly, what we had passed. So in fact there's good in furniture and all. I think we'll have to increase the price, or we'll have to stop little discounts going forward. Because there the raw material effect is much higher than any of our other products.
Right. Sir, sorry. If you could give the revenue growth for 3Q for each of these three segments.
Yeah. Revenue growth for Q3.
Q3.
Q3. So Q3, the revenue growth for consumerware. One second. Yeah. So consumerware-
31%.
For consumerware it was 31%.
Okay.
For Q3, writing instruments was 9.2%.
Okay.
Furniture was 9.4%.
Assuming the similar price impact, it means the volume growth in consumerware is actually 36%, 37%. Have I understood it right, sir?
Yeah, volume growth.
That's fabulous, sir. Can you help us understand any of the categories which have seen dramatic change in terms of the growth or momentum, especially given the weak demand post-festival?
No, because festive season was there in October. October was a very high-growth month for us because in Diwali. Category-wise, it's not a single category on an overall basket the sales increased. There are consumer insulated ware like casseroles and all, which are somehow made for especially gifting and presenting. That grew a little higher, and it's always there in F1.
Okay. I think given the numbers, what peers are reporting, and not for our category per se, but in general for the kitchen appliances, this is actually super awesome. Second question, sir, if you talk about the RM price change for 3Q and the current, how they are trending.
The raw material price has gone up by 5%, I said. 5%, if you see at our gross margin levels, it would impact around 1.5%-2%.
Okay. The 5% increase is happening in fourth quarter, right?
Yeah.
Or first quarter the price
Fourth quarter, we still have a little raw material, which is there of lower. For this quarter, I don't think so it will be a major effect at all.
Okay. Understood. Sir, can you help us in terms of any guidance you could provide for the revenue growth and the margins for the
We would like to stay on the line of growth what we had earlier projected, plus minus the raw material pricing. So in 20% plus growth level, we would like to keep.
This is for revenue, right?
Yes, for revenue.
For EBITDA PAT.
Similar level as what we are in percentage terms, so you could relate it directly to that.
Okay, understood. The other question I had is, if I look at QOQ, there is a revenue increase of about 6%, 7%. The other expenses have seen a drop. Can you clarify if there is any particular line item which has seen a decline in the other expenses, sir?
Other expenses. In fact, it will increase.
Sir, it was INR 93 crores in 2Q, and that
2Q to Q3, you are talking about?
Yeah. Q3, sir.
It is a mere 3 crores.
Yeah, but even the sales have increased by 8%. Logically, there would be some increase, but there is a drop. Is there any reduction in the advertisement sales promotion expenses?
Advertisement, in fact, this was the highest quarter that we did advertisement. In percentage terms, it was almost 1% more than what we normally do.
Right. I was checking from more absolute number perspective if there is any provision for write-back or anything of that sort.
Sorry, but I do not have really the other expenses at present.
No problem.
I will give you the detail on this.
No problem. Sir, one more question I had with respect to glassware, the new facility. Is it on track to commission in March 2024, or you said 1Q FY 2025?
No, this will, production will start in first quarter because the furnace will get fired by end of March.
Okay.
Okay? 15 days plus or minus.
That is fine. Okay, understood.
The main production and the category what we want to make will come in another two months, in fact. The sales conversion would be around June. Because 20 days this furnace will, then we have the best good glass coming out of it, and then we have to make all these, almost 8,200 SKUs ready to launch in the market.
Understood. One more question I had was, for writing instrument, January, March, this quarter is fairly large one. Can you guide us how things are playing out in this particular segment in the month of January, even in February as we speak?
Yes. January was not very strong because this normally happens because in the winter in the north, there is less people footfall in the retail shops. But February and March, because it being exam season now, the volumes have started picking up. Because of that, we feel that these two months would be good strong ones for us.
Got it. Just a beginning question with respect to retailers in each of these three segments: how do you see it increasing over next, let's say, three, four years or five years?
Sorry, I couldn't get it properly. Could you please repeat this?
The distribution in terms of retail reach, retail touchpoints, what are they currently as of December for consumerware, writing instruments, and furniture? How do you see it increasing over the next three, four years? Where I'm coming from, this 20% growth, what you are aiming for,
Yeah.
How much of that would be actually driven by distribution expansion stroke the wallet share?
Distribution expansion is on a continuous basis. On different, like in writing instrument, is the highest retail point increase because, as I said earlier, also, last year, we were only at 55%-60% of the geography of India. On a full scale of writing instruments, we assumed that we would have around 2.5 lakh retailers to touch here. What we were at 150 plus.
50.
75,000.
75,000.
We are growing at about 10%-15% every quarter. I think by end of the next year, I think we will be almost doubling this number of retailers.
How about the consumerware?
The consumerware is not very big, because it would be around some retailers. We do not have a real track on that. As our distribution expands into rural areas, what I said earlier, going forward next three to five years, Indian rural market is picking up on this kind of products in a big way. Though last two, three quarters it was very subdued in the rural areas. Going forward, I think the next three to five years, the expansion in rural areas will be very high. We are reaching an average district, and then retailers, number of retailers which will convert into holding this kind of product across. I think it will be in three to five years, the retailer has to double from here on this kind of product because the nuclear family is coming up even in smaller towns.
The enhancement of using this product will be very high. That is why the rural area expansion is much more what we rely on over the next three to five years.
Understood. Now, just to dig deeper into this subject. What is the current rural mix we would have, and how do you see it changing? Number two, will this come at similar margin or lower margin at gross as well as EBITDA level?
It will be at the similar margin because we are not a very high-premium product. We are the simple day-to-day common man product. I do not think so there would be a differentiation of pricing over there. Of course, maybe some freight element and all would be a little higher in the initial time . Going forward, it will definitely be at the similar rate.
Right.
Maybe the rural market will have a lower price point product selling more, but the margins are similar on those.
Right. What is the mix currently from rural?
Rural in consumerware would be around 18%-20%.
Over next three, four years, will this go to 40%, 50%, or will it be like—
35% plus. It definitely justifies the 40%, because urbanization is also happening. Those people who shift from the rural areas to cities, smaller cities, and towns. That's why those who have a little more pocket to use this kind of product are also getting urbanized.
Understood. Any comment on the new product category within consumerware which you are adding or which you have recently added and will see a fastest growth?
No. We have not added any category per se, but yes, development of new products are always there every month. The category what we will add will be the bath. What we will add in the time to come in next three to six months.
Got it. I think I will follow up with you, sir. Thank you so much for answering the question.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, a reminder to all participants: you may press star and one to ask question. Our next question is on the line of Praveen from Prabhudas. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for taking my question. The first question is related to the increase in the raw material. Will it be possible that in the coming quarters you are able to pass on these price increase and our gross margin to back to the second half, first-half level?
We will be able to pass on. Maybe if it does not come on in a month, it would be a month later. At present, as I said, for next one quarter, we do not expect that our raw material prices or the gross margins will reduce because of the raw material price increase, because we have inventories over there at a good pricing and good quantity.
Plus, also this year has been a overall subdued for the consumer market, so there were a little bit more price discount which were given in the market. Once the market improves, I think we will have to withdraw some of that. So that will take care of the raw material price increase also. Maybe at some we may increase.
Okay.
If it would have been a better year, maybe the margin would have improved because we have put a lot of good product mix with the more value-added products in the market. But because of the market being slow, we couldn't really get the fruit of that. Maybe in the next three years, I think we will get more benefit out of that.
Okay, that's helpful. Secondly, on the quarter number on the distribution. If I just backcalculate with your numbers of first half and nine months, the general trade is increased for a quarter. So it's reached to around 18%. Is that a seasonality every quarter? general trade is on the higher side because of the larger consumer numbers. Is it like that?
Yeah, because the Diwali month, the general trade and presentation, because presentation material are not very high on online and other things. It is much more on here. So online product sales are normally, which are consistently selling, not only seasonal products, to that extent. That's why the retailer, general trade, always increases in this quarter.
Okay. Got it. Second thing is on the rural. You said 18%-20% of the consumer is rural mix, which you wanted to take it to 25%-30%. If you can, some color on the distribution mix, like 700 plus of your distributor, consumer distributor, or 58,000 plus of retailer. How much is your rural base, and where you are taking these numbers to?
So number, if I speak about the consumer, if I talk only about the consumer, the number of distributors would not increase like what we grow accordingly, because the distributor expansion on his area and territory also is there. Because number of retailers, some distributors will be more because at a smaller end, we will have to have sub-distributors. Because he will not be able to keep our total basket of products because the range is too huge, and if the sales are smaller, it will have to be supplied from the distributor to the sub-distributor. So that numbers will increase at a fast pace.
Which is directly handled by the distributors. We will not be in touch with those sub-distributors. Our distributors in case will take care of that.
Okay. The distributor one is handling the rural and the urban both. We are also not able to segregate which are the rural or the urban.
Rural and urban, actually, because distributor, if I give an example of Jodhpur as a city, where we have a distributor. A district below that, there are around five districts which are there. At two of the district headquarters, we have distributors. But the other three, which are smaller districts, where we supply through the Jodhpur distributor, and earlier he was directly doing it to the retailers. Now we are wanting to put a stop point as a sub-distributor over there in the district. That is what we are trying to do. If we have a distributor there, the range and the material supply between that district will be much faster.
Got it. Sir, one more thing on the writing side. If I look at it, there is a seasonality you have said for the second half of the distribute better off. But in the first half also, if I look at both, it is quite good as per the product. The fourth quarter is usually a lean quarter for the writing instrument business.
Fourth quarter? No, fourth quarter is a good quarter.
No, I am talking about the first quarter.
The first quarter is a better quarter. Because the first quarter is back to school and then the last quarter is exams.
Okay. The first and the fourth is a heavy seasons, and the second and the—
Yeah. There is not too much of difference between all the quarters, maybe a 10% here and there. Yes. The first quarter is very strong. Second and third are okay, and the last one is again, good. Normally, the difference between all four quarters will be like not too much of 10% or something like that. Yes.
Okay. As for our export business as well. Because that is, I think, is a larger proportion.
Export, we are fully booked for at least for the next three months. So we have orders in hand. It is just the execution part.
No. Basically, this quarter export is also down, so that is why I am asking. Like there also seasonality depends on the writing business more.
Yeah, a little bit. Not much because, in the U.S. and all, they gather the raw material much earlier for back-to-school and everything. Because the timeline period to go to the store in the U.S., it takes a lot of time.
Okay. Just the last thing on sir, utilization of each segment and how much is the in-house for a quarter this time?
Utilization is almost at the general level, what it was last, because we have not grown very high. Of course, on our consumer side, we utilize a little higher capacities. But on the other side, we still have capacities, and we are still so on most of the fields, all the three. Capacity utilization in consumer value would be around 75%-78%. Furniture, still it is very low. At around 70%, 72%. Writing instruments also, we are around 80%, 75%-80%, 77%. 75%.
Okay. In-house is 50% of yours as well.
In our field, one more thing I would like to clarify is the capacity utilization in mostly plastic products. This really depends upon what kind of product you are making. There are always four parts in a casserole, if I talk. If I make a casserole with value additions like plating and making it golden, all these value increases much higher.
Okay.
To cap it really, what is the capacity utilization is only a figure, estimated figure.
Yeah, got it.
Last year I can say, yeah, my furnace is working at what level, 100% or 85%, because it is in storage. Here it is number of pieces from a raw material which is converted from kg to pieces.
Plus, our capacity on the houseware business, or plastic houseware business, or consumer is just to adding some more machines. That doesn't take much time. Even in the writing instrument, we have two units which are capable of almost doubling the sales from here. We add machines as per the growth.
Got it, sir. Any number on FY 2025 for CapEx, sir?
CapEx earlier, what we have given in FY 2025, major CapEx would be only addition, like, for the existing product line. Major CapEx is this year only because the glass was the major CapEx what we had. Next year the CapEx would be around INR 55 -56 crores.
Okay. Thank you, sir. All the best.
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Akhil from the B&K Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity, and congratulations on the set of numbers. My first question is on the capital deployment side. Would it be possible to give how is the capital deployed across the three segments as on nine months of FY2024 ?
No. Capital deployment story is not there because we have not segregated that.
Okay. Would it be possible to get at least a ballpark figure on RO-
I'll give you the exact figure in a couple of days if you want.
Okay. Sure. Operating cash flow for the nine months?
That's what we have not prepared.
That will be year-end. We will give you the next quarter.
Okay, sure. Sir, on the opalware side, we did mention, I think, around August last year. Current capacity is at 35,000 tons. Is that right?
No, it is around 25,000 tons.
After the expansion?
Sorry, I am really sorry on that. The furnace capacity is different, but we have two kind of calculations. So when I say we have a capacity of around 82 tons of furnace, 82 tons into 365.
30,000.
30,000. But what we get in hand is around 80% efficiency. That is around 25,000 tons.
Sure. I think last thing we had highlighted that we should touch around 430 to 450 crores of a top line as a peak utilization. Is that number correct?
Yeah. 420 crores of opalware. That is the selling price what we are selling today and the capacity what we have.
Okay. Would you be able to highlight the margin profile in opalware segment for us?
I think we have kept consumerware together, and it really opens a lot of things for the competitor. I would like to keep it together, please.
But would that be in line to the market leader of Opalware, or would it be slightly below that?
So ultimately you want. It is at a similar level. A little below, maybe because of the depreciation, which we have a new depreciation we had earlier. 1%- 1.5% is the difference.
Okay. Sure. This 420 crores of top line, you said we should be able to achieve by 2026, right?
Yeah.
Okay. Lastly, on the soda lime glass facility, I think the capacity is of around 20,000 tons. Can you please highlight the margin profile in this segment and second is, how much of time it will take to reach the peak utilization and what kind of sales we can generate from soda lime?
The revenue would be around 225 to 230 crores at the peak. To get up to that, I think so we are replacing the import. So really scaling, whether we will be able to achieve in 1.5 years or two years, that would be the timeline. So it could be earlier because we are just replacing. There is an INR 800 crores of import which is coming into, and we could be replacing that. So the demand for our goods would definitely be there. How fast we could do is minimum is 1.5 years, and maximum could be two years.
Got it. The margin profile for this segment would be in line to Opalware?
Yeah, in line with Opalware. It looks like that. Because we have to test the waters yet.
If I can squeeze in one more, how big is the opportunity size in this segment?
Glass would be very big because as I said, 80% is import. There's no really prominent local player in India. We have taken one of the best equipment. So I think the quality as we desire to have, if it comes, I think the market will not be a problem for growth from here. We're just still waiting to have our first products get into production.
Okay. Are we playing on the price point, like the imports are expensive because of, say, anti-dumping duty or something of that sort?
No, on glass, there is no anti-dumping duty as such.
Okay.
Of course, freight is there, is one element, which will be around 8%-10%, that leverage we will definitely get, and 20% duty on the product. No, dumping is a lot bigger problem in glassware around the world. But with these two things, I think we would be able to achieve our margins.
We will be price competitive at least if not, say, 30%, but at least 10%-15% as compared to imports.
Sure.
Okay, great. That's all from my side and best luck for coming quarters.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Sir, Aniruddha here. Just two questions from my side.
Yeah.
One is regarding the pricing. When commodity prices are volatile, we need to take price hikes or price cuts. When do we do that exercise? Is it an every-month exercise or it change the pricing? Basically, we increase the trade margins, and then it is up to the trade to pass it on to consumers, or anyway, how does it work?
See, normally on a consumerware we always do not change our MRP. We adjust it with a scheme which is ongoing every time when the prices are good. If the prices go up, then we reduce that discount, what we have to pass on.
Oh, okay. Essentially, it is then left with the trade to, anyway, decide whether he wants to fully retain that or partially retain that or pass it on.
No, because our salespeople definitely make their mark because we then give a little target also. If you buy certain goods, you will get 3%, 2%, 5% accordingly.
Okay.
They have to achieve something to get that discount also.
Understood. Sir, what is the ad spend target? Because we have seen one or two players in the industry also increasing up to 8% of sales as ad spend. Especially in order to support the, let's say, additional sales of glassware and opalware, what will be the strategy in terms of the increase in ad spend in FY2024?
Ad spend: definitely next year we are looking at significantly more ad spend than what we have done over the past years. We want really to bring the brand up. As the margin, better than when our revenue profit size is increasing, in a bigger way, I think our ad spend in amount of sum itself will be very big. It will be much at a decent level. What it was, it was much higher than what we spent over the last two, three years.
Sir, any ballpark guidance that you can share in terms of percentage of revenues or any percentage terms?
We really want to target at around mid-20s as our revenue growth over the next two years.
No, I am fine. Sorry. Ad spend as a percent.
The ratio would depend upon the market situation, how it goes. Because it would be around 2.5%-3%. 3% we would like to do for next year.
Okay, sure. Understood. And last question from my side, can you elaborate just more on the contract with Mr. Amitabh Bachchan. For how long he is going to be the brand ambassador, and is there any plans to, in a way, diversify or add more celebrities?
Right now, Amitabh Bachchan, we have this agreement with them which will end up in next year, beginning of next year, and then it will be renewed for another. We do every year renewal for the lease itself. Because they normally do one to one year, they don't do it for a long period. But mostly every year, we have been doing this for last five, six years. We are continually renewing the agreement every year.
Okay, sure, sir. Understood. That's it from my side. Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Karan from Asian Market Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Good morning. Am I audible?
Yeah. You are.
Yes, sir. Sir, very strong growth in consumerware is contributed by Opalware segment, which has seen some kind of capacity expansion lately so, can you give me revenue numbers for Opal and glass for three months and nine months and the growth on a nine-month basis?
Opalware, we have kept it as together. So we have not projected such numbers.
Okay. Sir, can you please throw some light on the capacity utilization on the expanded capacities in the Opalware in Daman now?
I think for sales side, manufacturing we are doing 100%.
No, what he is saying that the capacity is in Daman only.
Yeah, it is in Daman only.
Yeah. How is the capacity ramped up after the expansion at Daman?
The production side it is full.
Okay.
We are doing.
He is saying the second plant, what is the capacity utilization? That is what he means.
Sorry. Can you please repeat? Do you want Hello?
Yeah. I was asking for the capacity utilization on the expanded furnance at Daman.
I think because the product lines have changed, I cannot. But overall, our capacity earlier was around 14,000 tons of glass, and now it has become 24,000.
Okay.
Yeah, 24,000. Out of that, at present, we are utilizing around 60% to 65% on sales.
Okay. Got it. Right. Also, can you throw some light on the new SKU launches across categories for these nine months?
SKUs as a product, we have introduced in our Dandimora, around 80 SKUs.
Okay.
Writing instruments.
We are looking at three months, you are saying?
Nine months.
Nine months.
Yes.
YTD FY 2024, sir. That would be helpful.
Writing instrument must be, SKUs will be like—
Colors also is SKU. So maybe 40, 50.
40 to 50 new SKUs are over there. Molded furniture, we have introduced around 14 new SKUs.
Right. The expansion on the channel side, dealer distributors for nine months' expansion compared to 23 numbers?
As I already said, I think Puneet has already explained on writing instruments, we are increasing at least 10% to 15% retail end at every quarter.
There are new categories also we are entering into the writing instrument because we are a new company for last three years only. There are a lot of other categories where we are not present. We are in the process of writing; maybe the next year would be more categories, which will be coming. That will take care of the growth. Plus, we are expanding our retail touchpoints.
Right. Sure. That was helpful. On the value addition side for molded furniture, we were targeting kind of 30% plus. How are we out there as of now?
Yeah. You are right. We were around 10% to 12% when I last had the call a year back, maybe. This year we would be growing around 3%, 4% in the mix. There are value-added products which we started two and a half years back, which is now giving around 14% to 15% of the revenue.
14% to 15% of revenue compared to 10% a year back?
10% to 12%, yeah.
Right. And one last thing from my end. We were kind of launching a couple of categories on the writing and stationery part. How are things progressing there? And the additional market out there, thank you.
Yeah. We are getting into these coloring pens and all those stuff, which will be added in the next year.
Sorry, come again.
The writing coloring instruments, which are mainly sketch pens, but not those lower-end, but the higher-end ones, with brush markers and pen markers and with the calligraphy pens and all those, which are little more value-added products. This will be added in the first quarter or some of them in the second quarter of next year. That would be a market where we look at a very niche type of product where at the moment nobody's getting into that category. Everything in those coloring is a very low-end product. As you saw we remember we always wanted to be more on value-added product than being in a mass, very lower end of the product. We are not going only for volume, but we are going for more value-added volumes.
Good. Thanks for the explanation. That's in my mind.
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Saket from Kapoor Company. Please go ahead.
Namaskar, Pradeep Ji. Am I audible?
You're audible.
Yeah. Firstly, in terms of the molded furniture category, this business is entirely housed in the subsidiary WimPlast, or do we have separate entity under any other company also?
No, it is at WimPlast.
In Wim Plast. So when we look at the quarterly performance also, there is a dip in the margin in the plastic furniture and the allied product segment. So what explains this dip in margin? And for the nine months, I think so the margins are higher than what these quarter numbers have been. If you could explain. Hello?
Yeah.
Yes, sir.
On the nine months, I think it's on a similar line.
Yes, sir. But quarterly there is a dip when we look at this quarter.
To what we told, half of 1% is what the difference is.
Sir, going ahead, what should we be listening in terms of this segment performance for the year as a whole and also your strategic move going ahead? What should be the likelihood? I think so that we had some issues in terms of the raw material prices, especially. So if you could give us some color, how is this category going to shape up?
As I said earlier also, we are going for a little value-added path and a little discussion this, which we started two years back, two and a half years back, and we have achieved around 15%. Going forward, we want to grow that and go up to around 25%-30% of the revenue coming from there, which will definitely help us increase
Margin
the margin also in percentage terms.
Okay. What should be the margin bracket we should look at? Currently, sir, if you could just correct the raw material vagaries?
Consumer products, but I think so we would like to take it around 15%-16% PBT.
15%-16% should be the PBT margin for the plastic segment performance.
Yeah.
And sir, what is the volume growth we will expect?
Volume growth would be around 15%, is what we are targeting because not much higher than that.
Okay. And what has been the growth for the nine months, sir, in terms of volume?
Volume, I said 15%, because the value, if you still see, is only 1.9%. Because of the raw material, which was very low in the first three quarters. That is why there was a price, what we marked on was in the range of around 13%-16%.
Sir, we were also expecting some land and building sales under this category. I think so for the cooler part, the investment which we have made earlier.
Yeah.
Sir, have we gone through the transaction? Or if you could give us some color.
In the previous quarter.
Okay. We have concluded the transaction.
Yes. We concluded it. It was not only for cooler. It was a very big building, what we had, and we have shifted the cooler also to our Daman plant.
Okay. Going ahead also in your presentation, you did allude to the fact that we have been restructuring the structure of the company. You have mentioned group restructuring process. So where are we, and what should your investors in Wim Plast Limited should consider in terms of the restructuring process? Over the years, what should they look ahead? If you could give us some timeline or some idea when you speak about group restructuring.
I think so, yes, it is not concluded in the board, so I will not be able to answer this, but it will be very soon.
Okay. So we may look forward for further restructuring and proper rationalization going ahead. That is what you imply.
Yes, sir.
Okay, sir. Right, sir. So these were my points, and thank you for-
Thank you
And all the best to you.
Thanks.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for the day. I now hand the conference over to management for closing comments.
Thank you everyone for joining today's call. I hope that we were able to answer your questions as effectively. If you have any further queries, please contact SGA, our investor relation advisor. Thank you very much.
Thank you. On behalf of ICICI Securities, I conclude this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.