Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Chalet Hotels Limited Q3 FY2025 Earnings Conference Call. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company which are based on the beliefs, opinions, and expectations of the company as of the date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sanjay Sethi, MD and CEO of Chalet Hotels Limited. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Sethi.
Thank you. Good morning, and thank you for joining us today for Chalet Hotels Limited Q3 FY2025 Earnings Call. I trust you've had a chance to review our results and the presentation. The Indian hospitality sector continues to show resilience supported by steady economic growth, a stable rate of inflation, and increasing demand for travel and tourism despite the state of global geopolitics. These trends create a favorable environment for the sector, and we at Chalet are well-positioned to capitalize on these opportunities. In the coming year, we will see two new major airports open at Mumbai and Delhi, which will positively impact these gateway cities. The new airports are going to unlock a massive opportunity for passenger carrying capacity in these two megapolises. Especially in Mumbai, carrying capacity has been a major bottleneck, which has restricted travel growth for the last few years.
I'll be happy to elaborate further in the Q&A segment as we continue this conversation. Meanwhile, at Chalet, the journey of growth continues unhindered. Q3 did not just turn out to be the best Q3, but also the best-ever quarter in Chalet's history. Our consolidated revenue grew 22% year-on-year to INR 4.6 billion. Consolidated EBITDA rose 22% year-on-year to INR 2.1 billion. We reported a strong EBITDA margin of 45.5%. The nine-month EBITDA for the company is INR 5.2 billion, and we expect Q4 performance to materially augment this number. In the hospitality segment, we recorded a robust 18% growth in the average room rates compared to the same quarter last year, with steady occupancy of 70%, resulting in a 16% increase in ref power. Even on a like-to-like basis, portfolio RevPAR grew by 17%, driven by powerful performances in Pune, Bengaluru, and the Mumbai metropolitan region.
Our annuity portfolio, which is our counter to the cyclicality of the hospitality industry, is ramping up rapidly, with revenues surging 92% year-on-year to INR 577 million. Additionally, we achieved significant leasing momentum, with lease confirmations of an additional 400,000 sq ft in the quarter. In the residential real estate segment, we kept strong momentum in sales velocity and rates, achieving sales of 18 apartments in the quarter at an average rate of almost INR 22,000 per sq ft. Nitin will share more insights on the segment during the call. Now, some updates on the ongoing pipeline of projects. The phased opening of The Dukes Retreat continues. 73 rooms, I repeat, 73 rooms, a restaurant, a bar, and a pool are already operational. Meanwhile, while we've had some delays on the completion timeline, the product is turning out extremely well.
Renovations at Four Points by Sheraton Navi Mumbai are progressing well, with roughly 20% of the rooms and public areas currently in the works, with completion targeted for the whole inventory by July 2025. The Taj at Terminal 3, Delhi International Airport, is expected to open in Q2 of FY2027. New inventory at Bengaluru is being released as we speak into operations and will be all in play in the current quarter itself. The new hotel projects at Airoli Mumbai, Varca Goa, and the commercial development Cignus 2 in Powai are advancing as per plan. Besides these, we are creating new and high-energy F&B experiences at the JW Marriott Sahar, the Westin Powai, and the Duke's Retreat. We are also working on our plans to upwardly reposition the spectacular courtyard by Marriott Aravali to the Marriott brand.
As we move to a new step-up phase of growth at Chalet Hotels, it is critical to augment our talent capital. In line with that, I'm pleased to welcome Gaurav Singh, who has recently joined us as our Chief Operating Officer. Gaurav brings with him a rich background in the hospitality sector, and we are confident that his leadership will strengthen our operational excellence. With Shwetank, Nitin, Rachit, and now Gaurav, we are creating a young and dynamic leadership in the company with a long-term perspective. Equally exciting news is that we have earned Great Place to Work certification for the sixth consecutive year, underscoring our commitment to a culture of all-round excellence. Ladies and gentlemen, on the back of the infra support, robust corporate travel, a growing MICE segment, and the vibrant leisure and wedding markets, we stay optimistic about the next few years.
I'm personally extremely excited about our future. Now, please allow me to hand over the conversation to Nitin for further updates on the business. Nitin.
Thank you, Sanjay. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to another quarter of historically best performances. On the financial updates, in the hospitality segment, ADRs have risen by 18% to almost 13,000 levels for the first time. This is led by strong rate growth in Bengaluru and addition of Courtyard by Marriott Aravali Resort. Occupancy remained stable at 70% for the same period, resulting in a 16% RevPAR growth to over INR 9,000. On a same-store basis, excluding the newly acquired hotel at Aravali and The Duke's Retreat, occupancy was at 71%, and RevPAR continued to grow by 17%. Our room revenue grew by 21% for the same period, and total revenue growth was at 17%, which came to INR 4 billion for the hospitality division. We have been diversifying into different market segments and micro-markets with varied cost structures.
While we navigate it, I'm pleased to report that we have maintained focus on cost control strategies and maintained our industry leadership in margins. EBITDA margins for the quarter for hospitality division were at 46.1%, with well-managed utilities and payroll costs. On the rental and annuity front, our revenue for the quarter was at INR 577 million, and we have locked in INR 20 crores monthly run rate in December 2024. The EBITDA for the division was at INR 455 million, with 79% margins. As Sanjay highlighted, we have made strides in the leasing pace, and I'm confident we will be reaching full potential of the commercial inventory within a couple of quarters. Coming to the updates on the residential projects, we have sold additional 18 units during the quarter. We have reached the last leg of sales for the nine towers, which are ready for handovers.
Majority of new sales are for the last two towers, which are currently under construction. Our blended selling rate is approximate INR 21,700 per sq ft. Out of total 321 units, we have 50 unsold inventory, which are largely in the new towers, and we expect it to take about a few quarters to sell. Overall collections during the nine months were INR 2.9 billion, and we have an outstanding receivable of INR 4 billion as on December 31st. Consolidated revenue for the quarter was INR 4.6 billion, with a growth of 22% year-on-year. Consolidated EBITDA was at INR 2.1 billion, with a growth of 23% year-on-year and a margin of 45.5%.
Consolidated PBT for the quarter was at INR 1.2 versus 0.9 billion in the same quarter last year. The PAT for the quarter was at INR 965 , as against 706 million in the same quarter last year, a growth of 37%.
During the year to date, the company spent about INR 4.8 billion on CapEx and land acquisitions. The net debt, as on December 31, was at INR 15.8 billion. We closed the quarter with an average cost of finance standing at 8.53%, a reduction of 34 basis points from March 2024. The company has been actively investing in its growth and has a capital expenditure under the current plan of around INR 20 billion for the next three years. This will be largely funded through internal accruals. We will continue on our growth trajectory, and our balance sheet is in a very comfortable position to support further strategic growth opportunities. With this, let me open the floor for Q&A.
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question comes from the line of Karan Khanna with Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity, and congrats, Sanjay, Nitin, and team, on another strong quarter. So my first question, Sanjay, when we talk about the MMR market, where for nine months FY2025, you've seen a RevPAR growth of about 6%, while when we look at your peers, they've reported about 12% to 14% RevPAR growth over the same period. Could you highlight key reasons for this, given you've been highlighting the scarcity of upcoming supply in the market? And as a follow-up, what kind of an impact are you expecting from the upcoming Fairmont Hotel, which is expected to open up in the next couple of months?
Hi, Karan. Thank you. Look, our MMR RevPAR has grown about between 6% and 7%, largely on the back of an ADR strategy. We did let go of some business, which were low-paying business during the period, for reasons, for long-term reasons. A 13% growth in the average room rate for the Mumbai metropolitan region is an extremely healthy rate. Our occupancies continue to be in the mid-70s, even in MMR, which is a healthy occupancy to have. In other cities, our occupancies are at 66%, which is improved by 2%. But then the combined RevPAR growth for us is 16%. Even on an occupancy basis, if you were to look at our overall portfolio, we've largely flattish. Add to that the aggressive growth on the rates, throwing up a RevPAR of 16%, I think we've done a good and satisfactory job.
To your question about new supply, you're right, and I've maintained that there's some serious competition coming in place with the new hotel at the airport in Mumbai. They have a total inventory of 450 rooms, out of which around 200 are in the state that will be opened in the near future. We are very confident that the partnership with Marriott, with their very strong distribution, sales, and loyalty program, will continue to get us the premium in that market. We are confident that we'll continue to be number one on the RevPAR basis there. And we are also confident that in the coming year, we will continue to have growth at JW Marriott Sahar.
Sure. And your investor presentation continues to suggest that the share of foreign guests continues to stand at 39%, which is good, but that has remained flat. Why or why? So are you seeing any signs of recovery in FTAs, given this would possibly aid in higher ARR growth?
So yes, I do expect growth in the foreign travel, and I actually alluded to one major change that's going to happen in the coming year, which is going to support that, which is the airport expansion that we'll see in Mumbai, and I would like to elaborate on this for everyone's benefit. I think it would be useful for everyone to understand. Here's my perspective on the new airport. As and when that opens at Navi Mumbai, two things will happen. Number one, the cargo will be split between the two airports. I don't have a ratio of how it's going to be split, but even if it splits 50/50, you're still creating major capacity opportunity at the Island City Airport, which is the main airport.
Second, the passenger traffic will also split between the two airports, and people who need to then travel to the mainland side will prefer the Navi Mumbai Airport. But people whose purpose of visit is the Island City will come to the Island City. And therefore, again, because the people are going to go to the other airport for the Navi Mumbai side, there'll be spare capacity created in the main Island City Airport. It does two or three things. Number one, it makes it easier for travelers to come in and out because flight seat capacity will be augmented. Second, the airlines, a lot of the international airlines, have had trouble finding slots. So the international carriers have not had slots in Bombay since COVID, actually.
Now, with this split, it'll create an opportunity where they can let out more slots to both domestic and international airline carriers, which will create an opportunity for direct flights from the U.S., both east and west coast, which I think will support further growth on the foreign travelers. Having said that, while the percentages remain flat, absolute numbers are up, so we must be conscious of that. Not by a big margin, but they're up 5% over last year, so your number of foreign room nights in Q3 this year was 72,684 versus 69,326 foreign room nights last year, so that's, I think, a key takeaway. The other is, look, domestic traffic is growing and continues to grow very strongly, and we're very confident in that and support growth for all our hotels. I hope I've answered everything that you've asked for.
Sure. This is helpful, Sanjay. My second question, you've included the Kerala project in your pipeline of assets. So can you talk a bit more about the opportunity, the kind of CapEx timelines and RevPAR expectation that you have for this 150-key hotel? And will the demand be primarily leisure, or do you also expect some corporate demand in this market?
So Karan, this hotel has been on our books for a while, but it got stuck at the government level. The government has now announced they're fast-tracking the approval process at their end because they have to transfer the land from one government department to the second government department before we can start our processes at our end. Now, that's taking shape. Timelines are fluid. I don't want to commit on timelines because of the nature of the transaction. However, this 150-room hotel is the first phase is 150 rooms. Potentially, we can go up to 300-400 rooms, but I don't think the market can support that for now. The phase one will have 150 rooms and a convention center. To a large extent, we will create the demand in-house with the convention center for the 150 rooms to support the 150 rooms.
Obviously, 150 rooms will not be enough for the convention center that we're developing. It's a large one. So other hotels will also get the benefit of this. And in a staged manner, we have the opportunity because there are lakes within the property. We will have the opportunity of putting waterfront villas on the property itself, but we'll play that part by year depending on how the demand faces up.
Sure. And my last question is on your leasing portfolio. And while Nitin mentioned that you're confident of leasing out the entire 2.4 million sq ft in the next couple of quarters, but apart from the 1.6 million sq ft which is already leased out, have you signed any other LOIs which could help you reach your target by end of this?
At this point of time, that's all we have to share. It's a 400,000 sq ft improvement on the 1.2 million that was there. And 1.2 million included 500,000 of JW Sahar. So actually, from the leasing space that was available, it's grown from 700,000 by another 400,000, which is a material jump in the lease space. And we expect this momentum to take us through in the next two or three quarters.
Sure. Thank you, and I'll come back in the queue for any further questions. All the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Jinesh Joshi with PL Capital. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, I have a bookkeeping question. After the debt repayment that happened some time back, I think that finance cost has settled in the band of about INR 30 crores or in the first two quarters. But if I look at the three-year run rate, the cost has shot up to about INR 45 crores. If you can just explain the reason behind this, given debt repayment happened, and also how should we foresee the run rate going ahead?
So hi, Jinesh. To answer your question on the interest cost, if you remember, in the last quarter, we had said that the Powai Commercial Building is capitalized, and this happened towards the end of the last quarter. This interest is post-OC, which is started charging. We started charging to P&L from this quarter. That's the major increase.
Our net debt continues to be at INR 1580. As Nitin mentioned earlier, we'll be able to support the current announced pipeline of growth largely through internal accruals.
Question. And secondly, I mean, if I look at the Bengaluru market, our ARR growth was about 30% or in this quarter. So if you can highlight what led to such a sharp surge. And also, secondly, I think on the Trivandrum Hotel, while we have not committed on the timeline, can you just confirm whether that INR 20 billion CapEx number that you have guided for the next three years does anything with respect to Trivandrum is included in that number?
Trivandrum is a little fluid, as I mentioned earlier, so we've not put that number as yet. We'll see how that faces up. The important thing was to put it in the list, both from all of your perspective, that it is in the tracker. It's a potential growth opportunity. We will obviously take it forward depending on how it sort of positively impacts our own performance. But the number is not in there as yet. So if you want to build up from a cost perspective as a pipeline, you'll have to add that. Indications, say, are 100 crore a key.
Sure. And the Bengalore market, if you can highlight.
Sorry, I missed that part. So Bengaluru, I don't think we've given any separate numbers on city-wise ADRs. We've given Mumbai, and then we've given other cities. Other cities, ADR has jumped by 26%. And that's on growth at, okay, we've given, yeah.
One flight seven. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. So yeah, so Bengaluru has improved by ADR by 31%, you're right. And our occupancy has also improved by 4% there, which is a 40-odd% growth in the RevPAR in that particular hotel. Look, Bengaluru has struggled to keep pace with Hyderabad, but now in the recent quarters, we've seen it's catching up pace with Hyderabad. And therefore, it is just a natural growth that's happening there. And we expect this to continue. We are also going to add another 129 rooms in this property over the next few weeks, which will increase capacity, and therefore, we'll play the RevPAR route till those 129 rooms stabilize.
Understood. So one last question from my side. If you can just refresh, what are the existing leasing rates in the Bengaluru and the Mumbai market on a per square feet basis, given the fact that the progress on leasing has been quite good, at least in the last quarter?
Yeah. Sure. So the Powai one is trading around in the 120s and Bengaluru in the mid-60s on a per sq ft basis. This is, of course, without CAM. And when fully occupied, we expect CAM to take care of all the costs. So we expect near 100% flow-through to the EBITDA margins. The Sahar one, which has been almost fully occupied for a while now, is now trading between 145 and 150.
Contact. Thank you so much and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Archana Gude with IDBI Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity and congrats on another strong quarter. So I have three questions, particularly this you spoke about being very confident about strong earnings growth in the long term, which is very encouraging. However, there are talks of discretionary spending under pressure, which is evident from the subdued volumes in tech and FMCG consumption companies. Have you also seen some downsizing of the budget or cancellations, particularly in Q4? And does that really worry us?
Archana, I'm sorry. It was a little unclear, but I'm guessing you're asking how does the slowdown on the consumption side reflect on our hotel side of the story, right?
Sir, I was asking about this consumption being slightly subdued for a few last couple of quarters. So have you seen some downsizing of the budget or cancellations in Q4?
Look, Q3 numbers are in front of you. It's healthy growth. As Nitin mentioned, 17% RevPAR growth, even on a like-to-like basis, on asset-to-asset basis, which was there earlier. Overall, we've been able to show 16% growth, including the new assets, which are ramping up. Now, that's your Q3 performance. Q4 is typically better than Q3, and I can share with you that we expect that trend to continue.
Sure, sir. So secondly, on this Aravali Resort, it has been over three quarters that you have acquired. How has been the performance so far? Any positive or negative surprises there in terms of demand and pricing?
No, actually, it's doing very well. It has also had 15% RevPAR growth in this quarter. So it is trading well. Occupancies are up. The rates are up. It's now trading north of INR 15,000 for the quarter three. Looking strong. And also, as I said in the opening statement, we are going to upgrade and reposition this asset over the next six months or so into a higher brand positioning. It'll move up from Courtyard by Marriott to Marriott, which will support for it.
Sure, sir. And so lastly, you spoke about this Bengaluru market catching up with Hyderabad, but this 31% ADR growth on YY looks very, very on a higher side. So should we take it as the base rate going forward, or was there really runoff in this quarter?
No, it's not one-off for sure. And incidentally, Hyderabad and Bengaluru has also grown at 28%. So the strong story of these two, what I refer to as new age cities for India, continues to be very robust. It was not a one-off story. It continues to be strong on all parameters, demand and supply. And we also see supply to be muted in that city, and therefore, there's no reason to believe that this will slow down.
Sure, sir. Thank you so much and all the best, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, please restrict yourself to two questions. Next question comes from the line of Adhidev Chattopadhyay with ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good morning. Thank you for the opportunity. So first question is on the Hyderabad market. Anecdotally, what we're picking up is that the room rates continue still to be pretty strong, and the overall market seems to have re-rated. So could you please just confirm these trends, or do you see it more a one-off, maybe some events or something driving that in that market? That is the first question.
Sorry. Good morning, Adhidev. It's not a one-off event. It is normal growth of the business. Q3 is a better quarter than Q1 and Q2. That's what we've seen play out. And we see Q4 being equally strong. And this growth in Hyderabad and Bengaluru is structural in nature. It is not driven by singular events that are happening in those cities.
Okay. Okay. That just comes to the point that we have locked in for one of our hotels, right, the rates, right? So just wanted to get your view on that. Do you see some scope for the rates being renegotiated or something of that sort? That is what I was coming to.
You mean renegotiated upwards?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So we've got one more year to go, I mean, one more rate cycle to go, which again has a 15-odd percent growth built into the contract. And for now, we will honor that contract. But 15% growth in the contract is a solid growth. Remember that hotel gets 100% occupancy at these rates. And if you're growing at 15%-16% year on year, that's your RevPAR growth, which is solid by any measure. Meanwhile, the other Hyderabad hotel, which is a larger one of 127, will continue to reap the benefits of the rate growth that's happening there. Also, because the one that is locked in with a single client, there's no the cost side is very, very tight. We're able to throw up gross operating profits, which is a hospitality terminology used. We're able to throw up those GOPs in the mid-60s%, low to mid-60s%.
That itself is a massive upside for us. The margins are high in that hotel.
Okay. Sure, sir. So the second question is on our new leasing, which you've alluded to, right, to get it fully leased. So with the rent-free period, assuming that maybe three to six months and also by then in another 12 months from now, what would be the exit run rate, assuming that we are at a very high rate of occupancy on our commercial portfolio?
So we're expecting roughly INR 30 crores as your exit run rate once all of this is leased out, which in effect is about, I think, closer to INR 400 crores almost, right, on an annualized basis. And expect about 90% of that to flow through to EBITDA.
Okay. So we could assume in FY2027, right, this full effect to show, right, what the leasing will be doing in the company?
Full. But see that it's coming in some of the quarters of 2026 also.
Okay, sir. Yeah. Thank you very much. That's perfect.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Abhay Ketan with Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity for the question. So my first question is particularly on the JW Marriott Sahar. So given the sharp increase in ADR you have already taken, I think the focus is clearly on ADR and not occupancy. But how do you think the occupancy is going to fare in the coming months, particularly because of the intense competition in that particular micro market? And in that sense, will we see some sort of cutting of rates or some sort of flattening of rates to remain competitive in the market?
Look, we'll have to remain competitive. But as I mentioned earlier in another question, the distribution system of Marriott and the loyalty program is a major draw over all competitors. And that's supported us in the past. You've got to remember that we've got very good hotels in the neighborhood. I don't want to name them, but if you scan the market around there, there are very strong brands and hotels in that neighborhood. And we've been outperforming them for a very long time. We'll continue to outperform that market. I don't see any reason to be concerned of slowdown. We may not grow at the pace as other hotels. But look, that hotel clocked even in last quarter where we had some occupancy slowdown at the benefit of rates. It still clocked 76% occupancy. And it's a big hotel. It's 588 rooms. So I'm not concerned.
We've got a very solid product. We've upgraded the F&B with a couple of new F&B outlets. We've got the Marriott Bonvoy loyalty program. We've got the Marriott distribution system. We've got ongoing relationships. And we've already locked in the RFPs for this coming year.
Okay. Got it. Thanks. And my second question is on the overall portfolio. So what we have been seeing is that bulk of the RevPAR growth is coming from higher ARR. And now, even Bengaluru market and Hyderabad market have also seen a very sharp increase. But going forward, do you think that the reset that has to be done is largely done? And will now the ARR growth that we have been seeing for the last one or two years now slow down from this level, or do we still see more triggers that will enable a double-digit ARR growth?
So I've maintained that we will see double-digit RevPAR growth. Even for the last few quarters, I've said that. We've actually been exceeding that over the quarters. I see no reason why that commentary needs to change. Very confident that we will deliver double-digit RevPAR growth on our existing portfolio, and we'll add through new assets and new inventories.
Okay. Got it. Thanks.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Hrishikesh Chandrakant Bhagat with Kotak PMS. Please go ahead.
Hi. Just two questions. First is, I see on the timeline of your pipeline that you have given, there's a one-quarter delay compared to last quarter presentation, especially in case of Duke's and Bengaluru. So if you can throw some light on that. And secondly, on the other projects also, is there any risk of delay?
Thank you, Rishikesh. Yes. Look, Dukes is delayed. I actually mentioned that in my opening statement. It will be Q2. We're just ensuring that it comes out really well and the full product is ready. We already have 73 rooms operational. It's not always not operational.
Question.
But then there are banquet hall, one or two F&B outlets, and the balance rooms are still to be completed. They have been delayed. They've been delayed for various reasons. But we're very confident that Q2 now will be Q1 will be a quarter that we will open this very strong end of Q1, actually. Also, keep in mind that Bengaluru is already being released. While we said that it will be pushed back, the fact is that today, as we speak today, the hotel teams are taking over the hotel rooms and snagging them for desnag at our end. And as soon as that is cleared, we'll get them operational. So sometime in end of February, March, we should see that inventory getting added to Bengaluru. It will be this quarter, though.
Yeah. The other question is on this news about potential. You did explain at the start of the call about the impact of the new airport. But any impact likely of the shutdown of T1 terminal, which is likely in Q3 2026, rather, November 2025 onwards, is a reasonably peak period for us. So do you think any?
So Rishikesh, while the terminal one is scheduled to be shut down for whatever the plans are, and I don't want to speculate on those plans right now, the overall capacity will get enhanced between the two airports. So you'll still net-net have more capacity into the Mumbai city between the terminal two and the new airport in Navi Mumbai. Our problem at Mumbai wasn't the terminal space. Terminal two is large enough to accommodate more people. The problem was the runway space. So that runway remains identical to where it was for the main and the island city airport. And for the Navi Mumbai, it will be an additional two runways that will come into play. So overall capacity into Mumbai will enhance.
Okay. Thanks. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Pradyumna Telkade with ICICI Bank. Please go ahead.
Hello. Can you hear me?
Yes, we can hear you, Pradyumna. Go ahead.
Yes. Hi, sir. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I was on mute. On another great quarter.
Sorry. Sorry, we can't hear you. You'll have to improve the.
Hello.
We can just about hear you, but we can't understand.
Yes, sir.
Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. And congratulations on another great quarter. I have two questions. First is regarding the residential project at Koramangala. So in last quarter, you have said that we can expect quarter four to have a revenue recognition and cost recognition as well, based on a few conditions like electricity connections and others. So are we able to recognize that entirely in Q4 FY2024? If you could guide us on the same.
Yeah. So the electricity connection, etc., they are steadily ramping up. And then probably in quarter four, we'll be able to hand over at least 60 flats in Koramangla. So the short answer is yes, it is getting completed in this quarter, and the handover process will start, which will allow us to recognize the revenues and costs on a progressive basis.
Okay. So we can assume the entire revenue recognition can happen in Q4 FY2025.
Not the entire revenue recognition. It will be phased revenue recognition, which will be, as Nitin mentioned, in the range of around 60 apartments, give or take 10.
Okay, sir. So second follow-up question is regarding the hotel at Goa. If you could please tell us how much the CAPEX is expected and how much it will be funded through internal accruals and debt.
Roughly, the CapEx is going to be about 1.4 crores per room per key. We are planning about around 175-180 keys or rooms. In terms of timeline, we expect to get all approvals in the next three, four months' time, and then depending on whether the monsoons are on us or not, we will start either just before or immediately after the monsoon, and from the start date, we expect about 30 months of completion.
Okay. So how much it will be funded through internal accruals? Debt, any idea on that?
So I think money to that extent is fungible, right? Overall, on the company basis, we don't expect debt to go with the announced pipeline to beyond INR 1,900- 2,000 crores as a peak debt at any point of time. We're currently at INR 1,580. Of course, Chalet is on an aggressive growth path as we get new opportunities that may move downwards or upwards. But as of now, this is the guideline that we have.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Vignesh Iyer with Sequent Investments. Please go ahead.
Hello. Thank you for the opportunity. There are two questions from my side. First thing is I wanted to understand how the wedding markets panned out in quarter three vis-à-vis last year's same quarter, and how has January panned out for the same. And my second question, sorry. And my second question is more on the corporate rate hikes cycle. Can you tell me how we were planning on doing some increase in corporate rates? So if you could tell me how it has panned out.
So, Vignesh, on the wedding side, I don't have specific data at hand right now, but it's been good, much better. And in fact, the good point is that this time in quarter four and quarter one of next year, we see weddings being strong. Last year, we didn't have any weddings in Q1 and Q2. But this year, we see significant weddings even in Q1. Q4 seems to be as good or better than the Q4 last year. And therefore, we are very bullish about this Q4 doing extremely well. We will, of course, make sure that we take on weddings and groups subject to they being more value-accredited from a revenue management perspective. If the transient or independent travelers continue to get us higher revenue returns, we will obviously go down that route. So we will control the inventory on various segments depending on what's best for us.
I want to give an example. I'll elaborate that a little bit. If a city has a big event or a big wedding going on, sometimes it is in our interest not to take any other event because we know there'll be compression in the city, which will force individual travelers to look for accommodation in alternate hotels. At that point of time, they'll come through the retail rate, which can allow us higher rate increases.
Right. Right. Yeah. Also on the corporate.
Sorry, you had a question on the corporate rate. I don't have an exact number for you right now, but it seems to be a healthy sign-off. We've also this time again kept the RFP contracts for last room available rates very limited, which will allow us to, again, revenue manage the rates as we go forward.
Okay. As it is usually lesser than the retail rate, would it be fair to assume it would be more like on a lower double digit at least?
I don't want to speculate and give forward-looking numbers on that. We've already given indication that we see no reason why we won't grow in comfortable double-digit RevPAR numbers on a same store basis. That's the only guideline I'm able to share at this point of time.
Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you and all the best, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Prashant Biyani with Elara Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, of the total debt, can you break it up between hotel, commercial, and residential business?
I'll let Nitin come in on that, but it's fungible debt. So we will, at the we take it at a corporate level. But if you were to, and I'm giving an overview before Nitin comes in with the exact numbers, today, if you were to practically look at it from a bird's-eye view, all the debt that we have, almost all of it, is actually on the office assets. The hotels are debt-free if you really look at our portfolio. Nitin, you want to come and confirm that?
Yeah. So actually, on the commercial LRD, if you see the eligibility is roughly six times the current rentals, whatever they are. So if you take INR 20 crores as a running run rate, the basic eligibility from an LRD perspective is already INR 1,800 crores. So given my net debt is INR 1,580, hotels are, as Sanjay has rightly put, actually debt-free.
Okay, and would we be taking any additional debt for the new commercial tower at Powai?
Yeah, absolutely. As the construction moves on, we will be taking construction finance. But at the same time, we'll have accruals, which will set that off to counter the net debt part.
Right. And sir, how much incremental CapEX would we require for the new Powai tower as well as for the residential project?
So Nitin is coming in. I think the residential project is about cost is pending cost is 300-odd crores. And new sales opportunity is 500 plus the receivables. So together, we'll end up with about 400 to 450 crores of net cash flows after repaying the promoters. On the office side, Nitin, if you can come in and share what is the phase four.
Powai, which is the Powai second phase two, is roughly INR 800 crores of CapEX spend, out of which we have already spent close to INR 200 crores. INR 600 is the balance CapEX, which we might be spending in next three quarters.
Okay. Sir, just lastly, for JW Sahar, you mentioned some time back that RFPs have been locked for this year. Can you share how much growth it has been at vis-à-vis last year?
So as I said earlier, I don't have the data with me. Also, I think this is fairly confidential in terms of how we look at that. And the guideline that I've given is that please feel comfortable that we will deliver at least low double-digit RevPAR on all hotels.
Sure. That's it. Thank you from my side.
Thank you.
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, please restrict yourself to two questions. Next question comes from the line of Vikas Ahuja with Antique. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good morning, sir. My first question is especially on the Sahar. With the opening of Aurika, it has clearly had a negligible impact on pricing of Sahar. However, do you think the addition of Fairfield nearby will have an effect since its pricing is much lower than ours? It could pose a challenge, especially considering that both are Marriott brands. This is my first question.
So Vikas, Fairfield is a budget hotel in the Marriott portfolio. There is no reference point between the two as far as pricing is concerned. Fairfield to JW Marriott can have a gap of almost anywhere between 2x to 5x on the pricing. So I don't think that's a fair comparison, and it's not even worth looking at. So don't bother about the Fairfield one at all. And so it will be open for a while. There's zero impact there.
Okay. Sure. And second, you did talk about Hyderabad market doing well. And we are also hearing a similar feedback. Is that surge largely because of the surge in GCC openings, or it's a base effect, or any particular factor which is leading to such a high surge in pricing there?
Yeah. It's driven by the office absorption in that market. We see that very strong. It's also growing. Our own group is adding several million sq ft of office space in that area. To a large extent, those relationships pay off at our hotels. All hotels are doing extremely well. There's not just one hotel or two hotels that are doing well, which is a great sign to have because if the market is elevated, it will ensure long-term growth for all of us. I do hope that we can see similar trends in other cities in the country where the markets themselves elevate themselves by that 15%-20%. But Hyderabad looks strong, structurally strong, going to be strong, supply side weak. We are very positive about Hyderabad.
Sure, sir. So finally, sorry to hop on this rates question again, but some of the industry experts are talking about a slowdown in second half. However, our commentary remains reassuring on rates. So just want to clarify this area of strength we are seeing is largely a broad-based or we have few pockets which would be helping us to grow double-digit or maybe high single-digit in the second half also. Thank you, sir.
It's broad-based. Our portfolio on the same-store basis has grown on ADR at 17%, overall around 18% growth. This is a similar trend that we've seen across cities. You now have quarter three results out from two, three of the listed companies. Similar story coming out from everyone. This whole H2 thing being slowed down clearly is a fallacy as far as at least big cities are concerned.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Ali Asgar Shakir with Motilal Oswal AMC. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. First question is on the F&B. So this quarter being a wedding season, festive season, and we've seen F&B growth of about probably 8%-9%, which is maybe slightly better than the growth. And I think our F&B is also not at its peak, right? It's close to about 30%-40% plus of the total, plus we have spent a lot also on upgrading our MICE and other activities. So if you can just throw some light on what is led to a slower growth and do you expect this to pick up in the coming quarters?
So you've got the F&B growth at 8%. We look muted, but that's on the back of the fact that we've got two hotels that are added as hotels which have lower F&B. Courtyard by Marriott Aravali is one example. The other is The Duke's Retreat, the 73-odd rooms that have opened have really no non-resident business coming in because of banquet hall is shut over there and in the works. We also have two or three new outlets that are on the verge of opening at our hotels. I alluded to a high-energy F&B space opening at JW Marriott Sahar at the rooftop of the hotel and also at the what do you call it? At the Westin in Powai, where we've got a large high-energy F&B space that's about to open. So all of this will supplement the growth for us.
We are not a very heavy F&B-driven company in any case so far, and I think that's what probably drives our margins also. However, we like to adequately size the F&B, and where it needs support for new F&B opportunities, we always add. For example, we continue to always evaluate every square foot of space that we have in the hotel and see how we can sort of sweat that real estate asset and create some F&B or other experiences for the guests to grow. Going forward, I don't see F&B growth going dramatically up, except that in Q1, in the coming years, Q1, because weddings are better than last year, we see Q1 doing very well.
Got it. So with all these renovations that we are doing, do you think that this 30% has still a possibility to re-rate at a higher end, or maybe, of course, you mentioned that it will not grow significantly, but at least, I mean, track at par with the peer growth or slightly higher in the near term because of these re-rates?
Ali, again, I want to repeat. Our focus is on rooms, room revenue. This is your highest margin business. Within F&B, banquets is your high-margin business. Restaurants give negligible margins. And I won't be too fast about it, frankly, if you ask me.
Got it.
Our focus continues to be on growing ADRs aggressively. That's where we should focus. At the same time, we should have enough F&B to draw people into the hotel and make sure our residents have enough options as they stay with us and great experiences. That's where we stand today.
Understood. Understood. And secondly, last question is on the margin. We have done pretty strong revenue growth, but margins have kind of been flattish. So if you can just share some color, of course, we are at very healthy margins, but are you seeing any pressure on your cost because of which your strong revenue growth also didn't lead to any margin improvement? How should we look at margins going forward with your revenue growth being, if at all, at double-digit?
Okay. So margin is growing. I mean, the fact that we've got Duke's open and our inventory for the last quarter, which is actually negative EBITDA because the revenue is low, costs are fixed. And the other one is Four Points by Sheraton where we shut off inventory and some public areas now for renovation. Those are dragging the margins down because if you take those two out, our margin for the hospitality segment is actually 47%, which by any measure is a very strong margin to come out with.
Understood. Understood.
Higher than last quarter, Q3 last year.
Understood. So as we stabilize, of course, we should expect your margins to move up.
That's right. Also, we added the Marriott Hotel, which is in its ramp-up phase. The margins there are in the mid-30s. Once that stabilizes, these will further go up.
Understood. Got it. Very clear. Thank you so much for answering that.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Rajiv Bharti with Nuvama. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, this is again with regard to the previous question. So your Faridabad asset, because it's largely MICE-driven asset, should be clubbed in the F&B part of it. It should have a significant contribution of F&B in it.
Rajiv, while it is a MICE-driven project, it's residential MICE largely. And because it's residential MICE, from a percentage perspective, rooms still contribute the majority of the revenue. I mean, it doesn't have too much of non-resident F&B coming in for dining only, except maybe at weekends you get some guests. So it is not really going to enhance or up your F&B percentage. It will continue to be consistent with the other hotels. And therefore, we don't expect any major change on account of that. However, the upgradation of the product from Courtyard by Marriott to Marriott will have its own positive consequences. Some of it may couple up into F&B.
So I was just thinking that because this was not in the base, and if you were to strip out a contribution of F&B from this asset, then the 8% number would come down even further purely on the F&B income.
Because it's not contributing the same number as the other hotels because it doesn't do non-resident business. So if you take that out, the growth will actually go up a little bit. And I will.
Sure. And you.
On a like-to-like basis.
You mentioned that if you were to remove The Duke's Retreat impact and Four Points by Sheraton impact, the EBITDA margin would be 47%.
Hospitality segment, yes.
Okay. Which is still underwhelming considering that you had some of the markets where you have grown 15% plus, Bengaluru growing 30% plus. So operating leverage is.
There are variable costs that are connected with these revenues that come right from commissions to management fees to raw material costs to operating costs. And as we go along and up our rates, we also enhance our offering to our guests. We need experiences to be solid for all our guests. We continue to do that. Margin expansion and margin at 47% in Q3, which is typically lower than Q4, is, I think, a very strong margin to report.
Got it, sir.
Given that we have some hotels which are just coming into the break into that speed.
Sure, sir. Thanks a lot, Oliver.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Achal Kumar with HSBC. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. My first question is about, so we've been hearing that currently the expensive cost of capital, expensive land, I mean, it really is not worth it to think about the greenfield projects. It's so expensive. And of course, the timeline, if you're building a five-star, could be four years, five years. But then now the rates are skyrocketing, and you're expecting rates to further go up. So how does the equation work? I mean, do you think it's really true that greenfield projects, I mean, you may not see many greenfield projects, and it's really not worth it? Or do you think the rising rates are actually really favorable, and we could see more greenfield projects coming up in due course? What are your thoughts on that, please?
So Achal, on a base of 3,050 operating rooms, we have close to 1,100 more rooms under development. So clearly, we are going down that route of expansion. That's a significant uptick for a third more. And this is what is the pipeline that we are working on now. But our BD team is constantly looking at more opportunities to grow. I think I did give an indication that there's no reason for us to believe that between operating and pipeline, currently we are at about 41, 42 hundred. I see no reason why in a few quarters down the line that shouldn't be close to 5,000 number. So yes, the growth, we are bullish. There will be some cities where you may not be able to do greenfield. You will find alternate ways of doing it through mixed use or JVs or rented assets, rented shells.
All of those options are in front of us. We have a large group that supports us on similar asset classes. We expect to leverage that and grow aggressively going forward. The good part of the story is cities like Mumbai, where we have maybe 55%-60% of our portfolio today, have high barriers to entry, which are extremely positive for the Chalet story. And we'd like to believe that this is going to hold us extremely well in the coming years. Similarly, in Hyderabad, we already have 600 rooms. Bengaluru is going up from 390 to 520 rooms. All this is happening within our existing land parcels. So for us, the cost of building them out is significantly lower.
So I mean, so is it worth assuming that your next target could be the tier two cities or tier three cities where the construction could still worth it and where the cost of construction could be lower? I mean, do you think, I mean, strategically, do you think that way, that path?
So look, they need to make economic sense in each of these individual assets. If they work, we'll look at them. We have no boundaries that restrict us. Our growth will be aligned with where we can get healthy returns. I've mentioned this in a previous call. To some extent, we are spoiled by our own returns, and anything that we do going forward will have to match up with these returns. We are certainly not going to dilute our performances by taking subpar assets into the portfolio.
Okay. My second question is about wanting to understand more about the Pune market because Pune, I keep hearing that not doing great. It's not a corporate market. It's not a leisure market either. So for you guys, how the Pune market is doing? Any thoughts on that, please?
So tremendous growth. I mean, if you look at our Novotel Pune, our RevPAR growth in the hotel is 35% on a like-to-like basis. We had the same number of rooms last year in the same quarter. We've grown by 35% in that hotel. Clearly, a strong market. Pune is not necessarily a very strong rate market, but certain pockets within Pune have high potential for new supply of hotels, and we'll continue to explore them as we go along.
But is that, I mean, so the growth, sorry, the growth which you're referring to, is it more of a corporate growth or is it more of a leisure growth?
Corporate growth. All of it.
Okay. My last question is about the airport assets. I mean, you've been doing a lot on the airport assets. Any thoughts or any plans to have anything around New Jewar Airport?
No. So look, we do get opportunities once in a while around that area. We've looked at them. So far, given whatever we heard and saw, the economics didn't make sense at that point of time. But we will continue to keep our eyes and ears open to see any new opportunities that come around Jewar.
Okay. Perfect. Thank you. I wish you all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, as there are no further questions, we have reached the end of the question and answer session. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Sanjay Sethi for closing comments.
Good morning, everyone, again. And it's quite good afternoon. Thank you for joining us. In conclusion, I'd like to firstly thank you for joining us for the call. And more importantly, to confirm that we continue to be extremely excited of the space that we are in, both in hospitality and also equally in the office assets that we have. And we believe that Chalet's next few years, visible few years that we have insight on, which is the next four years, look extremely bullish and strong. Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of Chalet Hotels Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your line.