Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Container Corporation of India Limited Q1 FY 2027 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Kunal Shah from DAM Capital Advisors. Thank you, over to you, sir.
Good afternoon. Welcome to the 1Q FY 2027 earnings call of Container Corporation of India. We have the management being represented by Mr. Sanjay Swarup, the Chairman and Managing Director. I would like to hand over the call to Sanjay, sir, for his opening remarks, post which we can take up the Q&A. Thanks, over to you, sir.
Good morning to all of you. I am being joined by Mr. Ajit Kumar Panda, Director, Projects and Services, Mr. Vijoy Kumar Singh, Director, International Marketing and Operations, Mr. Vivek Gupta, Director, Finance, and Mr. Harish Chandra, Principal Executive Director, Finance and Company Secretary. I am glad to announce that the board of directors have declared a dividend of INR 1.60 per share. That is 32% on par value of INR 5. The throughput of the company, all-time high for any first quarter, Q1, that was 1.4 million TEUs, registering a growth of 9% year-on-year, in which EXIM's contribution was 9.8% growth, domestic was 6.2% growth. Rail freight margin also increased by 85 basis points. That is from 26.96% to 27.81%. Rail freight margin has increased. At the same time, we have increased the market share also.
In EXIM, it has increased by 90 basis points. In domestic, it has increased by 370 basis points. Overall increase in market share is 160 basis points, despite increase in margins also. Lead has also increased by overall 2% for the company, primary contributions being in domestic long lead movement, Nepal movement, and double-stack for JNPT. Volume of business to Nepal has seen a growth of 61%, which is a very handsome increase in this Q1 on year-on-year basis. Market share at JNPT increased by 4.2%. Mundra, it was slight drop. Pipavav, it was flat, almost same. Empty running cost has also reduced by 10%, EXIM making a contribution of 30% reduction and domestic 1.5%. One more development which is very important for us is the connectivity of DFC to JNPA, which were achieved on 20th June 2026.
I am happy to announce that double-stack trains are running from JNPA to various terminals, primarily to North India from 20th June 2026. One more product that we have introduced was bulk cement transportation in tank containers. Now we have a healthy fleet of around 700 tank containers. Apart from that, industry has also purchased on their own. So in the country, we have a fleet of around 1,000 tank containers now. We have given orders for 2,000 more tank containers. By this financial year end, we will have a very good fleet of tank containers, which will positively contribute to both top line as well as bottom line. Infrastructure additions have been quite good in Q1. We have commissioned 19 high-speed rakes, and we are on path to achieving 500 rakes by 2028. We have procured 560 new containers.
Our fleet is more than 58,000 containers of our own. CapEx, we have achieved around INR 118 crores. As per the budget for this financial year, INR 945 crores, I would like to keep it intact. Maybe after Q2, we will revisit the budget whether to increase it or not. EBITDA margin also have been very good in this quarter. We have achieved EBITDA margin of 23.6%. Year-on-year, it has increased. Last year in Q1, it was 23.1%. Again, a growth in EBITDA margin also. PAT, standalone results, PAT has also seen a very good growth of 7.7%. I will briefly give the business scenario in both EXIM and domestic. As I told in EXIM, double-stack trains have started from JNPT to Dadri to Kathuwas and Varnama. It's a big boost to trade.
We are in talks with senior officers of Indian Railways. Once the monsoon completes its cycle, from October, we will announce a sure transit time train between North India and JNPT, which will enable movement of cargo from road to rail. Shift of cargo will be there. We are expecting a very good shift after a sure transit train is started from October. New DPD long lead service from JNPT to Kolkata was started in this quarter. New LCL export service from Dadri to DIP/JNPT was started in this quarter, which is a significant milestone for EXIM movement. We achieved 45% growth in reefer exports, refrigerated exports in this quarter year-on-year, 8% growth in DPD movement. We achieved 9% growth in laden exports and around 5% growth in laden imports. In almost all the ports, we have seen a growth. Primarily Chennai, we got 10% growth.
Kamarajar Port, 88% growth. Vizag Port, 57% growth, which is a very good growth for our company in Q1. I will come to domestic. Domestic, we started assured transit train from TKD to Kolkata via Agra and Kanpur around eight, nine months back, which has been quite well received by trade. We are getting good business on this. There are firm indications from Indian Railways that they are going to announce another assured transit train from South India to North India, which will be announced very soon by Ministry of Railways, which will further increase our domestic business. Bulk cemented tank containers is a very big hit in trade, and we are getting very good business in this now with having good fleet of tank containers. We hope to ramp up good volumes and positive contribution to top line as well as bottom line.
Gunny bales traffic, which in between it was stopped, has again started. We are getting good demand in Eastern India for gunny bales traffic. One more development is the very big order we are going to sign very soon from a leading Maharatna company of Government of India based in South India. From South India to Western India, we will be getting very good business of domestic, in which every year we will add 1 million tonnes in domestic as a result of this agreement. This agreement we are going to sign in another one week or 10 days. Apart from that, several reforms have been announced by Honorable Minister of Railways for containerization of various commodities like salt, fly ash, fertilizer, food grains. This will give further boost to our domestic business.
At this point of time now, I'm going to revise my guidance for this financial year. Revised guidance will be EXIM will be 15%, domestic will be 25%, overall guidance will be 18% for this financial year. With these so many developments taking place in EXIM as well as domestic, we are quite bullish and we are quite confident that we will be able to achieve this much growth. This is all from my side as far as opening remarks are concerned. Now, we are ready for question answers, please.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question -and -answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Alok from Motilal Oswal. Please proceed.
Yeah. Good morning, sir. Just had couple of questions. One is, if you can just help with the originating volumes for this quarter.
Yeah. Now the originating volume for this quarter, for EXIM it was 561,025 TEUs, and domestic 106,114 TEUs. Total is 667,139 TEUs.
Got it. Sir, just wanted to understand, when you are giving this guidance, it is for the handling volume or originating volume when you have revised.
Normally, we are giving guidance only for handling volumes.
Okay. If I just look at the handling volume numbers, if we go by the guidance which you have just upgraded now, there is lot of catch-up required, especially in the domestic side. Currently in the first quarter, we have done far below the guided number. What gives this confidence actually? If you can just highlight on that, sir.
As I explained in my opening remarks, there are lot of things which are happening. Maybe you are not able to see that impact in Q1. Now all these things are materializing, and we have nine more months in this financial year. Definitely all these will have a positive impact, and we will be able to achieve the already 6% we have achieved in domestic. All these developments that I highlighted in my opening remarks, we are confident to achieve 25% growth.
Got it. Just last question. If you can just share the rail coefficient. Has there been any significant change at JNPT after the commissioning of the DFC there? Just you can highlight on that please. Thank you.
Now JNPT DFC, as I told you, it is commissioned on the 25th of June. In the Q1, only 10 days were left. 10 days is too short a period there because quarter consists of around 90 days. 90 days is a very short period to have an impact. Apart from that, if you have been observing, there have been heavy rains in Mumbai, which disrupted the movement temporarily. It has been followed by heavy rains in Gujarat now. That is why we are not starting assured transit train in this weather. From October only we will announce assured transit train. The impact is visible, but it is not a sizable impact as of now.
Got it. Even in the second quarter, we might not really see any impact coming through.
Second quarter has just started, it will not be proper to comment on that. We are quite positive and let us see, because our services are there and lot of tendencies are also there at ports. Things are shaping up in a positive manner only.
Sure. That's all from my side, sir. Thank you and all the best, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mukesh from Avendus Spark. Please proceed.
Yes, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. My question is again regarding the DFC and how road to rail can happen. If I just go back to last few years, we would have seen this road to rail happen in the Gujarat ports. Absolute volume did not see that much of an improvement for us because of this road to rail. Just trying to understand how different will JNPT be for us vis-a-vis Gujarat when it comes to the DFC and the road to rail.
There is a slight difference because in Mundra Pipavav, DFC was not entirely going up to the ports. There was a feeder route also involved. In JNPT it will be pure DFC going up to ports. Feeder route means other trains are also running on that route. Now on this circuit, now NCR and JNPT, there will be only freight trains running on that track. Definitely movement will be faster and efficiency will be more.
Right. Any sense you can give us currently how much of JNPT cargo which is moving to the hinterland is moving on road right now, the containers. What's your expectations, say, after one year of DFC being operational, how much of that could have shifted to rail?
See, as of now, around 15%-16% is the rail coefficient at JNPT.
Yeah.
As of now. Rest all is moving by road. Of course, there is some transshipment volume also. I expect that once DFC now has been commissioned, in another two to three years' time, we should have double rail coefficient. Actually, it should be 30%-35%. That is as per National Rail Plan also. We should have 30%-35% rail coefficient at JNPT.
Sir, this 15%-16% rail coefficient, the remainder of 85%, everything obviously doesn't go to the hinterland. There'll be a lot of short distances which anyways has to move by road only. The addressable market probably is lesser than that because we are looking to take the containers to northern hinterland. That is what can probably move from road to rail, isn't it, sir?
See, it includes transshipment volume also, and rightly you have pointed out some short distance movement also. We have all the details with us. At this forum, I don't think I have that much time to share that detail.
Right. Got that. Sir, second question is could you give us your market shares, sir? The market shares in the northern hinterland market. I think you used to provide that earlier. You had mentioned earlier on that some short lead distances you had exited. It'll be helpful to understand where we are on that now.
I don't have a market share for northern hinterland only. I have pan-India market share with me, rail transportation share.
Sure, please provide that, sir.
Which I can give you.
Yeah.
Now the market share, as I told you in my opening remarks, has increased both in EXIM as well as domestic. In Q1 year-on-year, last year in EXIM it was 53.1%, now it is 54%. There is an increase of 90 basis points. In domestic, it has increased from 55% to 58.7%. That is an increase of 370 basis points. Overall market share has increased from 53.6% to 55.2%. That is a growth of 160 basis points. That is in Q1 we have seen a good increase in market share and good increase in margin at the same time.
Great. All right, sir. Thank you. I'll get back in the queue.
Okay.
Thank you. A request to all participants. Please restrict your questions to two questions per participant. For more questions, please rejoin the queue. The next question is from the line of Achal Lohade from Nuvama. Please proceed.
Good morning, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, first, if you could talk a little bit about this Nepal cargo. What is the opportunity there? How much are we doing now on an annual basis? What was it in FY 2026, the contribution from this particular sector?
Nepal cargo, we have seen an increase of 61% in Q1 on a year-on-year basis. In FY 2026, in Q1 we ran 69 trains to Nepal, whereas in this FY, in Q1 we have run 111 trains. The growth is 61% in Nepal traffic. This is a very good growth, I should say, in Nepal business. Basically from Visakhapatnam to Nepal, which is a very long lead traffic, 1,400 km, we are able to run these many trains. One more development has taken place for Nepal. That is till now we have been running up to only Birgunj, which is a dry port in Nepal bordering Raxaul. Raxaul is India, Birgunj is Nepal. Only 4 km apart. One more place customs has granted us permission, and we have already started running train. One train already we have handled. That is at Biratnagar.
Biratnagar is in Nepal, and Jogbani is in India. Jogbani, Biratnagar, also we have started train. We propose to run around 8 - 10 trains every month for Biratnagar, Jogbani also. Nepal, we will be serving two places by train. Biratnagar, Jogbani, and Raxaul, Birgunj. In the coming months, you will see very good growth in Nepal movement.
Sir, if you could call out what was the contribution in FY 2026 as a full year, and what would be that for FY 2027? Just wanting to understand if this delta in terms of port revision, how much of that is on account of Nepal?
That numbers I don't have with me right now. We can share it later on with you. Specifically Nepal numbers or contribution on overall volume, I don't have right now with me.
No problem, sir. I'll take it offline. Secondly, in terms of the EXIM growth, 15% is what you have called out. What is the underlying industry, as in port volume growth you have built in, sir? Is that 10%, 12%, 15%?
This growth primarily will be through double-stack movement through JNPT. This will be shift from road to rail. Secondly, we have brought Jodhpur also on double-stack. Till now, Jodhpur was not having double-stack movement. In this month only, three, four days, we will be handling first double-stack train at Jodhpur. This will also shift cargo from road to rail. Thirdly, at Ahmedabad, again, we are having another terminal where we will have a double-stack movement. Till now in Ahmedabad, we do not have double-stack. CONCOR does not have double-stack facility. That will further increase our business. In South India, there is a terminal, Kadakola, in Mysuru, where we have got good cargo for waste paper, and for that also, we have got custom notification. This will also give a boost to our traffic.
There are so many places where we expect that traffic will increase in EXIM segment.
Got it. If you could just clarify on the employee cost, sir, it was down 22%. Why? What should be the sustainable run rate we should work with? The LLF cost, it was higher at INR 113 crore. Is that a new normal quarterly run rate?
LLF already we are having a 7% increase every year, at the same time, in my earlier calls also I told you, it is a continuous exercise that we are surrendering the terminals which are no longer required without sacrificing our business. That has been the company's policy. Constantly we are doing. In this quarter also, there is not much growth in LLF. As far as employee cost is concerned, I request my PD Finance to clarify.
Employee cost, I think there's a little fall as compared to last year. In fact, last year there were a few transactions which were one-off. In fact, we paid some award to our employees in the last quarter, in the June 2025 quarter. Similarly, there was also one-off, we have also contributed some amount to the Provident Fund Trust, where there was some provisioning for one of the investment, which didn't do well and which has been reimbursed to the trust. That's the reason. Otherwise, there is no extraordinary thing which has happened.
Got it. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sumit Kishore from Axis Capital. Please proceed.
Thanks for the opportunity. My first question is, Q1 performance was quite good in EXIM, given that it was in the backdrop of the West Asia crisis. Could you please elaborate on what has been the business impact in Q1 because of the regional geopolitical events, and how is it having a bearing on your ongoing performance in Q2, if at all?
West Asia crisis had impact on us in Q4 of last FY. As far as Q1 is concerned rightly you have mentioned, we don't feel much impact, and we have good pendencies at ports. Exports also are showing good growth. As I mentioned that there has been a 9% growth in exports and 5% growth in imports in Q1 year-on-year basis. In this quarter also till now, performance has been quite okay. Because of the good monsoons, the disruptions in train services are there, so we are feeling the impact of that. As far as West Asia impact is concerned, there's not much impact. Except on domestic in Morbi, we are feeling an impact because it has not come back to normal. Morbi, where tiles are being produced.
Sure. My second question is, if you could speak about how double-stacking panned out for CONCOR in Q1, and how does it compare on a year-on-year basis. Given the ramp-up in double-stacking that you expect now, directionally, how do you expect the quarterly number to look like a couple of quarters down the line as you take in the benefits of JNPT connectivity to DFC? Some comments there would be helpful.
As a matter of fact, double-stack saw a fall in this quarter, a fall of 12%. Because the imports that were there, mostly they were 20 ft imports, and on upper deck, only 40 ft are allowed in double-stack. The JNPT, actually, DFC was commissioned, only 10 days were remaining in Q1, so not much double-stacking we could expect on that circuit. Now we are hopeful that this will pick up with now this JNPT DFC going in full form. In the coming days or in coming weeks, we will have good double-stack runs.
As compared to your double-stack number for FY 2026, which was 6,396, it was up barely 1%. How do you see the FY 2027 number on double-stacking pan out? As per the unit economics that you are seeing on DFC right now, how much more contribution at the EBITDA level or some sense that you could give us on what does the efficiency gain that CONCOR is able to retain from a double-stack rake on DFC versus a pre-DFC economics?
See, double stack, I see a very good growth once this JNPT and all stabilizes. I see at least a growth of some 8%-10% on this circuit. As far as EBITDA margins are concerned, which will have a positive impact as a result of double-stack. Those calculations we have made. It is a rough calculation, so I can't share on this forum as of now.
Sure. Thank you, sir. Wish you all the best ahead of your superannuation. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aditya from Kotak Securities. Please proceed.
Thank you for the opportunity. Congratulations on good set of results.
Thank you.
Two questions from my side. The first one, just wanted to clarify, the market share numbers, are they based on handling volumes or are they based on originating volumes?
This market share is based on tonnage, basically. That is railway tonnage carried by us. Strictly speaking, it is on originating volumes.
Understood. That clarifies. The second part on this question is that on the EXIM side of things, there appears to be some dip in realization basis, the originating volume numbers being taken into account on a YOY and a QOQ basis. Could you give us some more color as to what is the driver behind the scenes?
The realization, as I explained earlier also, it's a function of two things. First is the tonnage and second is the distance. Both the things play. NTKM is a word used in railways, NTKM or GTKM, gross ton kilometers. It's a function of these two things. I don't know what is your specific question.
No, I think the lead distance would have gone up, right?
Sorry?
Sorry to just come between. Basically, lead distance would have gone up, right? Because Nepal got added and a few long lead distances gotten added.
If you see in detail, the tonnage has fallen in this Q1. Railway tonnage has fallen by 3.3%. Our tonnage in EXIM has fallen by 1.8%. The reason is the heavy cargo, which is metal scrap, iron scrap, aluminum scrap, machinery parts, they have not come. Even number of containers have increased, but the weight carried, that is heavy weight cargo, has not come. That is the main reason for fall in tonnage as well as not that much commensurate realization, because we have carried light cargo. Heavy cargo is now coming. Because of disruption in shipping services, some cargo is coming, some is held up, it comes later on. Like that it is there. Plus, this scrap and all this cargo is impacted because of the international prices. If international prices increase, then scrap import also comes down. Those factors also play an important role.
If you see, the tonnage has fallen down. That is the reason of fall in realization.
Just a second question from my side, sir. These transit assurance rakes that are going to become more mainstream, could you give us a sense of when they have happened in the past? Has CONCOR been able to get a combination of both higher volumes and higher margins? If some quantification you can put around those numbers.
As of now, we are running assured transit train on domestic circuit between Delhi and Kolkata with stopovers at Agra and Kanpur. This has given us additional business. As far as financials are concerned for this particular movement, I don't have with me right now, but we have got additional business that has been diverted from road to rail. Similarly, another assured transit train we are running from our MMLP at Dadri to Mundra Port, which is also giving us very good volumes and diversion has taken place from road to rail. Similarly, for this also, separate financials for this movement, I don't have with me. Another assured transit will start from October between Dadri to JNPT, which will further give us more volumes.
Those are my questions. Thank you for the responses.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Priyankar Biswas from JM Financial. Please proceed.
Yeah. Hi, sir. This is Priyankar from JM. My first question is, sir, recently we have heard in the news that there is a lot of flooding, especially beyond the Dahanu and also in Gujarat lakes. Has there been any significant impact at least on our cargo volumes because of that? I mean, because of this incident?
In Q1, we were impacted by heavy rains because there were heavy rains in Mumbai. You must have read in the news. In the month of June. There was disruption in train services, and our volumes could have been more. That was the impact in the month of June. In the month of July, very rightly you have pointed out, there is heavy rains and flooding in Gujarat area, and that has definitely impacted our cargo movement in the month of July. That is in Q2. That impact you will see in Q2. We hope that these rains are there, but railway is also working. They repair the tracks very quickly, very efficiently. We are quite hopeful that normalcy will come and we will again resume our services.
Sir, when you are giving the guidance of 15% volume growth, you would have baked in this flood impact in Gujarat and maybe the impact of rains in Maharashtra in late June. I think this is baked, right?
Yeah. I have taken this into account. Normally, the cargo which has to be sent, it has to be sent. Once there is a flood and all, road movement also is not possible. Rail is more reliable movement. Definitely, impact will be there, but that will be temporary. It will not be permanent impact on the cargo movement.
One more thing. If I remember in the past few calls, we had provided an incentive for better customer services to improve our first-mile and last-mile services. Can you say that how much part of your containers today that you are moving is covered under first-mile, last-mile? What is your target, let's say, by end of FY 2027 or FY 2028? Some ballpark.
Now the thing is that three years back we were having only 10% cargo that we were able to give first-mile, last-mile to our customers.
Yeah.
At the end of FY 2026, this number has gone up to 46%. 46% cargo, we are able to give service to our customers for first-mile, last-mile. For the rest 54%, customers are arranging the first-mile, last-mile movement themselves. For this FY 2027, we have set up a target of 80%. From 46 we will move to 80. By FY 2028, 100%. That is our target. That's a huge value addition for our customers. Customers are very happy with our services, they want that everywhere we should give them service of first-mile, last-mile.
If I can just squeeze one more in. Traditionally, you used to give us the rail coefficient by ports and also the market share at the port. Can you give us for JNPT, Mundra and Pipavav?
Yes, I can give you. In JNPT for Q1, rail coefficient was 14.13%, our market share was 62.6%. Last year, it was rail coefficient 15.5%, market share was 58%. There is a big growth in market share in JNPT. At Mundra, last year, the rail coefficient was 24.7%. This year it is 24.5%, almost same, our market share has slightly dipped from 36% to 34%. In Pipavav, the rail coefficient is same, 55%. Share is also same, 48.8%. This year it is 48.2%.
Thank you, sir. That's all from my side. Congrats for a great quarter.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Koundinya from Jefferies. Please proceed.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, the first question, just trying to reconcile. If we look at the rail volume growth from FOIS, it appears that the volumes for the industry declined by about 4%, while your volumes were at around 2%. Just trying to understand the math behind this. Obviously, it looks good. Where is the difference? Looks like partly tonnage, which you explained in one of the conversations earlier, if you can elaborate a bit on that. Secondly, within that, July also looks like about 8%, 9 % decline when I look at the data. How should we look at the volumes for you in that context?
First I would like to clarify that July month is still running. It is still not complete. It is premature to comment on July. For Q1, I can comment. Q1, as I explained earlier, the container growth is there in percentage terms, but in tonnage terms, the growth is not there. Indian Railways also has experienced 3.3% - growth as compared to ISO containers, and 5.4% - growth in domestic. The primary reason is that light commodities have moved in the containers, heavy commodities have not moved. That is the primary reason for decrease in tonnage.
Understood. Sir, given the way the global freight rates are, should we expect a similar trend to continue in the near term, especially given heavy cargo also constitutes the metal scrap, et cetera?
I don't think so because heavy commodities, metal scrap, and then machinery, machine parts is also there. Maybe because of the conflicts happening around the world, sometimes some containers come quickly, some containers are stuck up at transshipment points. They will be coming in due course. I think in overall, if you see on annual basis, it will all balance out.
Got it, sir. Sir, my second question is on your market share at JNPT. Obviously, you did well this quarter. What is it that you did differently which helped this market share gain? Obviously DFC will benefit outside that. What are the other levers that are at hand which can help you sustain this market share gain?
Actually we introduced lot of new products. One of the product was the Aushadhi Express, Pharma Express that we started between Hyderabad to JNPT, and it was all refrigerated container cargo along with Maersk we have started. That has given us new line of business. It has been quite well received. Similarly, we started export service from Whitefield, that is Bangalore to JNPT. Initially, we started with one train per week. Now it has moved to three trains per week. Such a good demand is there. We focused on speedy clearance from JNPT, and our imports are being cleared. We are focusing on a dwell time of 35 hours. Right now we are not able to achieve that in the near future, import dwell time, we want to bring down to 30, 35 hours, which is the benchmark given by NITI Aayog also.
The speedy clearance of imports and focusing on new products. These are two major reasons of our increase in market share at JNPT.
Got it, sir. Sir, if I may ask a couple of bookkeeping questions. Can you help us with the empty running cost?
Sorry to interrupt you, can you please rejoin the queue?
Sure. Noted. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Krishnendu Saha from Quantum AMC. Please proceed.
Yeah, thanks for taking my question. Sir, just wanted to understand some economics of JNPT. Sir, how many trains are we doing right now from JNPT?
JNPT, we are doing around 11- 12 trains every day, CONCOR.
After DFC comes in, say suppose about in next year, sir, when we are full-fledged on, how many trains would those convert to double, means from the DFC double-stack train?
Number of trains would also increase when DFC comes, and many of them will be double-stack. You can say we will be doing around 15 - 18 trains per day from JNPT.
Double-stack?
No, not double-stack. All will not be double-stack. Suppose 15 trains we are doing. Sorry?
Okay. No, I was just trying to understand the economics as to if you're doing 11, 12 right now per day, single stack, come next year, post-December, when the DFC is fully functional and we have no hiccups, how many double stacks will be doing compared to 11, which is single stack right now?
Okay, right now we are not doing any double stack. Once in next December, you mean from one and a half years from now?
No, next December means 27th January.
You are asking forecast for 27 January?
Sir, let me rephrase that question. Sir, right now, we're not doing any double stacking. We're doing single stacking, say 11 trains right now. Say, come December 2026 or January 2027, of this 11, how many can be converted to double stacking on the DFC?
In 11 trains that we are doing right now, we are doing double stack also because double stack has started from 20th of June. 11 trains, at least three to four double stack daily we are doing.
Okay, this can increase to?
This will further increase when the traffic starts shifting from road to rail. This will further increase. Let us see. We are hopeful that six months time. Actually, increase will be gradual. Six months time, maybe this four will increase to six or seven trains per day, double stack.
Okay. Sir, do you see our lead distance on the EXIM side being stable after one year or it could increase slightly or it will be stable after the full-fledged DFC? How do you see the lead distance coming for us?
Lead distance in this Q1 in EXIM has increased from 658 km to 714 km. It is seeing an increase because of the increase in Nepal movement which is taking place. Already there is an increase in lead.
You expect this lead distance to be stable going ahead?
Yes. It will be more than 700 km in EXIM.
Okay. On the domestic side, do we still have to procure any more cement tankers or is it done for us?
We have already a fleet of 700 tank containers.
Yes.
2,000 more, we have given order.
2,000 more we have given order. Last question, any pricing increase you will be taking or this is what it is going to be for the What is the scenario of the price increase for the future?
Some price increase we already effected in EXIM.
How much would that be, sir? Blended.
Details I don't have with me right now.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you for your time.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vinit Thakur from Plus91 AMC . Please proceed.
Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Most of my questions have been answered, sir. Sir, could you give me what was the quarterly overview led to increase in the margins and what were the attribute factors to it?
What exactly is your question? I'm not able to understand. Can you repeat it, sir?
There is an increase in the margin, sir, right? There's a YOY, there's an increase in margin and operating profit as well. Could you just help understand what is the leading factors to it? I joined late, sir. My question may be repetitive, sir.
The increase in margin you are asking?
Yes, sir.
Increase in margin, the basic reason is the operational excellence. If you see, the empty running has come down by 10%. Plus, we are making domestic movement. We are now making circuits for that, so both sides loaded movements are there. Plus double stack also. All these things are contributing to increase in margins.
Sir, could you help me understand the economics of double stacking?
Economics means what?
What would be the potential revenue and how would be different in terms of from the single-stacking, how much revenue increase will it lead and cost saving?
See, double-stack actually on upper deck, we pay 50% to Indian Railways. If you are asking the numbers, how much we have paid, how much margins are there, that I don't have with me right now.
Okay, sir. No more issues. That's it, sir. Thank you so much. Sir, I have no question.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vignesh Iyer from Sequent Investments . Please proceed.
Hello. Sir, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, if you could give some insight on our bulk cement business, how has the traction been for us in quarter one? I do not want in terms of volume number, but just overall how the traction has been. Could you guide what is the target you are targeting for this year, if you could share.
Bulk cement is a very promising product that we have started. There is a lot of demand from the industry. We have signed the agreement with UltraTech Cement, Maha Cement, Ambuja Cements, and several other companies also. Right now, because of shortage of tank containers, we are not able to meet the demand, as I explained in my opening remarks also. It has got a very good potential. Some of our big customers are themselves procuring tank containers for transportation of bulk cement and using our rakes for transportation. By the end of this financial year, we will have a very good fleet, strong fleet of tank containers. There will be very good growth.
Once the full fleet of tank containers is available with us, we are targeting at least 1 million tons traffic of bulk cement every year, maybe from next financial year.
Okay. On the Morbi side, sir, is there some business coming from Morbi now, or is it like what it was in the month of April, May, when it was very tough time?
Your voice is not clear. I am not able to understand what you are asking.
Hello. Is it clear now? Hello.
Yes. Now it is better. Yes.
Yeah. I just wanted to understand how is the business from Morbi. Because in quarter one, the first two months, if I am not wrong, the entire business was shut down due to the West Asia war. If you could comment on how it has been for the month of June and July.
See, Morbi business is now picking up, it has not become normal because of the gas supply, as you are aware. Still it is much less than what it used to be. We are expecting that it may resume. Still all the industries are not working to their full capacity.
Okay, sir. That's all from my side.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Achal Lohade from Nuvama. Please proceed.
Yeah. Thank you for the follow-up opportunity, sir. If you could help us with the empties cost first.
Empty for EXIM it was INR 19.2 crores. Last year it was INR 27.7 crores. Domestic was INR 64.7 crores. Last year it was INR 65.6 crore. Total INR 83.9 crores. Last year it was INR 93.3 crores.
Got it. Sir, just a clarification. On the basis of originating volume, if I look at the realization for domestic segment went up 10%, but the cost went up 12%. On a per TU basis, actually the margin kind of declined. If you could explain what has driven this, because the empties cost is fairly stable on a YOY basis. What would have brought down the margin?
Lead is the reason because domestic lead has come down.
If you could help us with the lead number, sir, for the quarter.
Yes. Last year it was 1,356 km. This year it is 1,323 km.
Understood. One more question, if I may, with respect to the, of the total JNPT volume, how much is actually going to North India in your opinion, sir? Is that 2 million? Is that three, four? What number would that be? How much is that on rail at the moment according to you?
That number I don't have with me right now, please.
Got it. Is it fair to say the originating to handling ratio would be fairly stable for the year, or you could see further declining actually?
It will be stable for the year.
Got it. Is it fair to say in that case the 15% EXIM growth is also on originating basis for you?
I-
Yeah.
I can't answer this question right now because you should be well aware that EXIM and handling have a particular formula. 15% growth in handling doesn't mean it will 15% growth in originating also.
Got it. Those were my questions, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Koundinya from Jefferies. Please proceed.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Thanks for the follow-up opportunity. Sir, just a couple of questions. One, if you can help us with the port-wise volume mix data.
Portwise, yes. JNPT was 37%, Mundra 33%, Pipavav 7%, Visakhapatnam 6%, Chennai 4.4%, Kochi 5.3%. These are main ports.
Sure, sir. What is the double-stack, sir, this quarter vis-a-vis YOY, if you can share those numbers as well?
The double-stack this quarter was 1,322. Last year in Q1 was 1,508. There is a drop of 12%.
Got it, sir. Thank you very much, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aditya Mongia from Kotak Securities. Please proceed.
Thank you for the follow-up opportunity. The question that I had was more on the differential trends in market share across the three ports that you have. Could you give a sense why the company's offering is clicking in JNPT? As you answered that question partly, what I'm trying to say is that what needs to be done to make this more broad-based across Mundra and Pipavav as well? Can we think of launching new services over there, is that scope only limited to JNPT?
No. We are, of course, launching new services. Always we are in touch with our customers. It is not that we are neglecting other ports. Wherever cargo is, we are present there, and we are continuously in touch with our customers. Our marketing activities are going on in full swing. Apart from JNPT, other ports are also very important for us. It's not that market share has slightly dipped. Pipavav, it is same. It doesn't mean that we have not given that much importance to these ports. These ports are also very important, extremely important for us. We hope to regain our market share very soon now at these ports also.
Sir, put differently, do we have a competitive advantage that works to our favor in JNPT, and thus it is easier to gain market share over there versus other ports? If I see a three-to-four-year series of this data, you have been continuously gaining market share in JNPT, credit to the company, but you've been kind of losing it elsewhere. Is it that you have some competitive advantage, maybe the ICDs that you have, something that kind of sets you apart to cater to JNPT cargo better than others?
Actually the hinterland that we are serving, because JNPT caters to Andhra Pradesh and Maharashtra, Nagpur area, Madhya Pradesh and Karnataka also, Whitefield. Maybe hinterland also, we have very good presence. We have very big ICDs in these hinterlands. Mundra, Pipavav cater mostly to North India, where there are a lot of ICDs present, we as well as private operators. Maybe that may be the reason. It's an interesting question that you've asked. We will further analyze it in detail.
Sir, maybe just a clarification. Of this 37% that is JNPT in your cargo mix, let's say whatever, 37 volumes. Out of the 37 volumes, how much go to NCR for you, and how much go outside NCR?
That number I don't have with me right now. I can get back to you later on.
Sir, those were my questions. Thank you for the responses.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sumit Kishore from Axis Capital. Please proceed.
Thanks for allowing the follow-up. Just one observation and question. Last three financial years, the share of originating volumes as a percentage of handling volumes has been coming off in both EXIM and domestic. You mentioned a certain formula which is relating the two of them. Could you please elaborate on how we should be thinking about this ratio over the next couple of years?
We have more hub-and-spoke, because now the evacuation will be based on hub-and-spoke only. If there is a hub-and-spoke movement, transshipment will definitely increase. Handling volumes are bound to go up as compared to originating volumes. There is no fixed formula. I was mentioning that approximately originating volume ranges from 65% to 70% of handling volume. That is the approximate number that it is a no-brainer, you can easily work on that. I think more or less it will remain same. If more hubs are present, there may be slight change in this number.
On the downside. It can reduce further. Because last three years-
Yes. If more hubbing is there, definitely it will be on the downside. I can't predict right now at this moment.
Got it. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mohit Chugh from Subh Labh Research. Please proceed.
Hi, Mr. Swarup. Thank you for the opportunity.
Thank you.
Mr. Swarup, my first question on this road to rail shift. I think Indian Railways has been trying this for the past decade, to win market share over road. I just wanted to get your opinion on haulage charges. Earlier, we have witnessed that Indian Railways used to increase haulage charges whenever they feel like or they needed resources. How has been your communication recently with the Indian Railways on haulage charges? Can we see where the haulage charges can go down from Indian Railways and be passing it on to the customer and winning market share from road?
In logistics, you must be well aware that the transportation choice of a customer depends on two factors, basically. First is the transit assurance, and second is the cost. You are primarily focusing on cost only. Transit assurance is also very important in logistics. Till now, Indian Railways has not been able to give transit assurance to customers because on the same track, we have passenger trains, as well as the mail express trains, as well as goods trains. In Indian Railways, we can't predict when the train will reach the destination. Now, with the Dedicated Freight Corridor coming up, in which only freight trains will be running on that track, and that too, at a very high speed, Indian Railways is in a position to give transit assurance to its customers.
When the Mundra Port was connected to Dedicated Freight Corridor through a freight route, we approached Indian Railways to run assured transit train from our MMLP at Dadri to Mundra Port. That product was launched. It was very well received by trade, and we tweaked slightly the tariff also. There was a very good shift of cargo from road to rail, though that experiment was successful. Second was the product that was launched by Indian Railways from Delhi to Kolkata. In that also, they gave an assured transit of 120 hours, with a stopover at Agra and Kanpur. The same train will start from Delhi, go to Agra. Some containers will be unloaded, some containers will be loaded. It will go to Kanpur. Some will be loaded, some will be unloaded. Finally it will go to Kolkata.
Entire journey, including the time spent at Agra and Kanpur, will be completed in 120 hours. That product is there from October 2025. I am happy to announce that the train is reaching within 120 hours. This product is also very well received by trade, and we are getting very good response on this particular product. That is another good example of transit assurance without tweaking the cost. Another product, Indian Railways, we are in talks with them. They are going to launch this transit assurance train from south to north, maybe from Bangalore to Delhi. Still they are working on it. Once they announce that will also, I am hoping, it will give a very good response from trade. Lastly, from October onwards, I have already spoken to senior officers from Railways.
From October, when monsoon is over, we are going to launch assured transit train between JNPT and North India, because now there are frequent disruptions, and it's not the proper time to announce an assured transit train. From October, we are going to announce assured transit train between North India and JNPT. That will also give another boost to shift of cargo from road to rail. These are the things. Basically, transit assurance also plays a very important role. Only cost is not the factor.
Understood. Mr. Swarup, this was very helpful. Just a follow-up on this. You were saying, this assured transit is basically helping us gain more market share from road, because now there's a certainty when the container will reach other destination.
Yes, sir.
This pursuit of assured transit trains will keep increasing from here, as you said, Bangalore, Delhi, more routes will also be explored.
Correct. Exactly.
Got it. Mr. Swarup, my second question is on our capacities at northern ICD. I understand we are quite optimistic about traffic moving from JNPT to northern part of the country. I was just wondering, how's the capacity at our northern ICDs? Will they be able to handle this increased flow of containers which they will be receiving after JNPT getting connected? Or can we face some bottlenecks?
No, absolutely, there will be no bottleneck. We are having huge Multi-Modal Logistics Parks. They are in areas of more than 300 acres. We have 4 MMLPs on Western DFC. Fifth one is coming up near Ahmedabad. We are fully geared up to handle the increased traffic. Absolutely no worries on that. We are inducting high capacity rails also, in which double-stacking will be more. Our infrastructure is ready. We have absolutely no issue.
Wonderful. Just one last question, Mr. Swarup. Thank you for answering the other two. Do you have any rough ballpark numbers of containers moving on truck from JNPT to Delhi NCR hinterland? Just ballpark, if you have some, either from NITI Aayog report or your internal assessments.
Sorry, I don't have that number with me right now.
No problem. Mr. Swarup, I think this is your last month with CONCOR. It was very nice interacting with you all this while. Good luck for your future endeavors, Mr. Swarup. Thanks a lot.
Thank you very much.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Just I wanted to summarize that we have seen a Q1, which was quite good, and as I explained, the various sectors, an increase in guidance. Company is standing on very strong fundamentals. We have a strong team, very world-class infrastructure with us. I am pretty sure that we will increase our market share, increase our business, and more and more EBITDA margins also will increase. It has got a very bright future, and logistics industry is going to benefit a lot from the services of CONCOR. Thank you very much.
Thank you. On behalf of DAM Capital Advisors Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your line. Thank you.