Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q2 FY25 Earnings Conference Call of Concorde Biotech Limited hosted by Ambit Capital. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements do not guarantee the future performance of the company and it may involve risk and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask question after the management briefing concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touch-tone telephone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Prashant Nair from Ambit Capital. Thank you.
Over to you, Mr. Nair.
Yeah, thanks. Good afternoon everyone and welcome to the Concorde Biotech 2Q FY25 Earnings Call from the company. We have with us today Mr. Sudhir Vaid, Chairman and Managing Director, Mr. Ankur Vaid, Joint Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer, Mr. Lalit Sethi, Chief Financial Officer and Mr. Prakash Sajnani, Compliance Officer and Assistant Vice President. I'll now hand over the call to management for opening remarks following which we can move on to the Q& A session. Over to you, sir.
Good afternoon everyone.
Thank you for joining us on our.
Q2 FY25 Earnings Conference Call. We are pleased to report steady and sustainable growth in both revenue and profitability. For the first half of FY25, our revenue for Q2 FY25 stood at INR 310 crores compared to INR 262 crores in Q2 FY24 and EBITDA stood at INR 99 crores compared to INR 84 crores in Q2FY24, making a 18% year on year growth in both revenue and PAT. This growth underscores our deeper market penetration, expanded customer base and entry into new regions.
At Concorde, we take pride to be.
The world's only supplier offering a complete portfolio of fermentation-based APIs for immunosuppressants. With decades of experience and specialized expertise, we have developed high-quality products across therapeutic segments such as immunosuppressants, oncology, anti-infectives, and antifungals that meet international quality standards. Just as we have demonstrated robust growth in the immunosuppressant segments, we are optimistic of achieving similar growth and market share in our other segments. In addition, we made significant progress in the formulation business starting in 2016 with oral solid dosage manufacturing. This segment in Q2 accounted for approximately 26% of our business. We are further enhancing our formulation capabilities with the addition of an injectable facility by the end of this financial year, which will broaden our market reach and product diversity. Over the years, we have dedicated our efforts in developing niche capabilities by leveraging our expertise and innovative approach in fermentation.
Through continuous research and development, we strive to stay ahead of curves, pushing boundaries and setting new standards for product innovation. In our segment, we are proud to offer products that stand out not only for their quality, but also for the manufacturing capabilities and capacity that makes us the preferred choice for API customers with fermentation needs. One of our distinct competitive advantages lies in our backward integration into critical starting materials. By controlling the entire supply chain, from raw materials to finished products, we significantly reduce our reliance on external vendors. This integration allows us to maintain strict quality control at every stage of production, ensuring that we consistently meet the highest standards. As a result, we are able to provide our clients with a reliable and uninterrupted supply of products, giving them the confidence that we can meet their needs with exceptional consistency and quality.
Furthermore, we have all the necessary approvals.
From both international and domestic regulatory authorities.
These certifications reinforce our commitment to quality and compliance, ensuring that our products consistently meet the highest industry standards. Our focus on consistent supply, quality, innovation, customer satisfaction continues to drive our growth and success. As we move forward, we remain committed in leveraging our strength and capabilities to deliver exceptional value to our stakeholders and contribute positively to the health care industry. With this, I hand over the call to Mr. Ankur Vaid, Joint Managing Director and CEO for his opening remarks and thank you.
Thank you sir.
We are pleased to report revenue of INR 310 crores for Q2FY25, reflecting a year on year growth of 18%. Our EBITDA and PAT also increased by 15% and 18% respectively compared to the same period last year. As we continue to grow our revenues, we remain optimistic about sustaining and further increasing our profitability in the future. Over the years, we have successfully positioned Concorde as a leading supplier of fermentation- based API products. Carving out a niche category within this.
So, we have built a business with.
Our expertise in complex processes, operational efficiency, product development and R& D, thereby creating a significant entry barriers. With a diverse portfolio across therapeutic areas, scaled up manufacturing facilities, flexible plant configurations, regulatory approvals, a strong compliance track record and backward integration, we have positioned ourselves as a preferred partner for our customers. Our API revenues for Q2FY25 so stood at INR 230 crores against INR 226 crores.
In Q2 last year.
We would like to highlight that the inter-unit sale of APIs to formulations has not been considered in the API revenues. Hence we see muted growth on our API segment. We continue to penetrate deeper into markets with our existing clients, adding new clients across geographies and also expand our product portfolio. By continuing to diversify our offerings, we are strengthening our position and meeting a wider range of customer needs. Looking ahead, we are optimistic about our future growth prospects particularly given a strong pipeline of products in new segments such as oncology and antifungal therapies. These areas represent exciting opportunities for expansion and enabling us to broaden our market reach and meet critical needs in high demand therapeutic segments. Majority of the customers added in the last year in the API segment are for these new therapeutic areas only.
We have also supplied qualification samples to several customers and expect validation and commercial supply soon. We see very encouraging response from these new segments, especially the antibacterial and oncology segment and are optimistic about the same. Our goal is to enhance our offerings by becoming a one stop provider of fermentation- based API products for multiple therapeutic areas, thus increasing our market share and solidifying our relationship with existing customers. This strategy positions us well to offer complete range of products and continue building on our success in the API segment. Our formulation segment has achieved an impressive growth of 125% in Q2 FY25 on a
year- on- year basis.
This growth is driven by product approvals and continuous product additions, thereby strengthening our presence in the domestic emerging and regulated market with substantial potential in the domestic arena. Our formulation business, particularly in critical care, nephrology and rheumatology has demonstrated strong momentum. We have also expanded our sales and distribution network with a dedicated team of over 175 professionals serving the Indian market. Our new injectable facility is on track to begin operations towards the end of FY25. This will allow us to serve a larger market with a comprehensive product portfolio that includes both oral solid dosage forms and the injectable. For Q2FY25 the split between API and formulation was 74% in API and 26% in formulation while for H1 FY25 it was 76% and 24% respectively.
In our CDMO business we are seeing encouraging momentum with a growing number of inquiries and we have submitted multiple RFQs as companies evaluate Concorde as a potential supplier in the CDMO space. Concorde offers distinctive advantages as a CDMO partner, making us a strong contender for large companies. We are actively in discussion with several companies. With the passing of the Biosecure Act, global companies are looking at reducing their dependency on China which is also leading to increased number of inquiries. Given our expertise in fermentation, ample capacity to undertake CDMO projects, and global regulatory approvals, Concorde is being considered as a trusted partner for fermentation and semisynthetic API CDMO projects. Speaking about product development and expansion, our in-house R&D team is at the forefront continuously innovating and adding new products. Currently we have a robust pipeline of.
8-10 new products which we.
Plan to commercialize over the next three to four years. These products are primarily focused on critical fields of oncology, anti- infectives and antibacterial treatments. We also have a robust pipeline of finished formulation products and have done new filings in the U.S. and other emerging markets. Lastly, we are optimistic about the growth trajectory for both segments and remain committed to achieving our long-term CAGR guidance. With this, I hand over the call to Lalit Sethi, our Chief Financial Officer, for financial and operational performance.
Thank you.
T hank you sir.
Let me take you through the financials.
Operational performance for the quarter ended September 2024.
On the revenue front, our revenue for.
This quarter stood at INR 310 crores as compared to INR 262 crores in the same period last year.
Let me highlight that we had an.
Exceptionally good Q2 last year and we have outperformed that this year with a growth of 18%.
Our remaining for the first six months stood at Rs.
526 crores as compared to INR 557 crores in H1 of the last year, representing a growth of 15%. Revenue from the API business stood at INR 230 crores in this quarter against INR 226 crores during the same period last year. API revenue in H1 of this year stood at INR 401 crore against INR 390 crores during the same period. So as mentioned, that API revenue excludes intercompany sales to the formulation units and hence it shows a muted growth. Revenue from formulation business in this quarter stood at INR 80 crores as compared to the INR 36 crores in the same period last year, representing growth of 125%. Formulation revenue in H1 this year grew by 87% on YoY basis. Revenue from the domestic business grew by 16% in this quarter and 19% in H1 on a year-on-year basis.
Revenue from the export business grew by 20% in this quarter and by 11% in H1 of this year year-on-year. On year-on-year basis. Speaking on EBITDA, EBITDA for this quarter stood at INR 137 crores as compared to INR 119 crores in the same period last year representing growth of 15%. EBITDA for H1 of this year stood at INR 218 crores representing growth of 14%. On YoY basis, EBITDA margins for this quarter stood at 44% and for H1 financial year 25 it stood at 41%. Our PBT excluding profits from JV stood at INR 133 crores as compared to INR 113 crores in Q2 of the last year. A growth of 18% and PBT for H1 of this year stood at INR 211 crores, a growth of 19%. YoY.
Our PAT margins excluding profits from JV stood at 43% for Q2 FY25, which was the same in Q2 of last financial year. On profit after tax, our profit after tax for this quarter stood at INR 99 crores as compared to the 84 crores in the same period last year, representing a growth of 18%. YoY PAT margins for this quarter stood at 32%, the same as compared to the Q2 of the last year. We are a zero debt company with investments, bank balances and cash and cash equivalent to the tune of INR 284 crores as on 30th of September 2024. So with this I shall now leave the floor open for Q&A.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press Star and one on the touch tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press Star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Alankar Garude from Kotak Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.
Hi, good afternoon everyone. So formulations growth in the first half was quite strong at 85%. So firstly was there any one-off lumpiness in formulation sales in either this quarter or first half overall?
No specific lumpiness. I think usually formulation business is driven by. You know, most of our products are mostly in tenders and supplies to government institutions. So there are, you know, as I mentioned, sales of our fermentation API formulations is usually lumpy in nature. So you know, but there were certain products which we supplied in this specific quarter. But going forward also we have a very strong quarter for formulation as well. So you know, as I said, there is bound to be lumpiness in both API and formulation, which is something that.
We did see in this quarter for formulations as well.
When you say, Ankur, domestic emerging markets as well as regulated markets are driving the performance in formulations qualitatively, would it be possible to break the strong growth between these three? I mean, is domestic growing at a faster pace compared to the export markets or any color on this front would be helpful.
So we are seeing the export market growing faster than the domestic market while, you know, while domestic market itself is growing. But the rate of growth in exports is relatively more than that of the domestic.
Understood. The second one is what was the capacity utilization as of the second quarter across all the three sites?
In across all three sites the capacity.
Utilization is 79% as far as the Unit 1 is concerned and 50% as far as Unit 2 is concerned and 38% in Unit 3.
So then, sir, I mean the question is when you talk about higher captive consumption in this quarter, now given that our capacity utilization at Limbasi was only 38%, capacity was clearly not a constraint for us. I appreciate the point on high base this time around in the second quarter, but if you look at the overall growth not just in the second quarter but even in the first half, as far as API segment is concerned, it's still quite low. First half API growth is only 3%. So can you please help explain the reasons behind the lower external API sales growth in the first half?
Maybe talking first about the inter-unit sales. So as I mentioned that the intercompany sales from API to formulations at the end gets recorded in formulations only. And hence API had shown that muted growth whereas formulation showed the accelerated growth. So if we consider, if we include this API sales made to formulation in our API, the API growth would be around 9%-10% going forward in spite of the inter-unit sales to the formulation, we see that the API growing by mid to high teens.
And.
With this we do not see any significant change even to our ratio of API to formulation. So as I mentioned earlier also in Q1 that Q1 typically is on the lower side because we had a heavy quarter four. But as things are progressing, we are seeing that increase, but in certain markets, rather than catering through the API, we are catering now to the finished formulation. But still in spite of this, we see, you know, double digit growth in.
Our API also going forward.
I think the question there was, if you look at external API sales now, our understanding was given that Limbasi was cleared by the regulators sometime back, more than two years now, there would be a faster pickup in external API sales as well from Limbasi. I understand the point on maybe a higher preference on formulations via captive consumption in this quarter or maybe the first half, but directionally speaking, can you comment on the traction we are getting from our external API clients from Limbasi?
Yeah.
So most of the anti-infectives and antifungal products are going to be launched from unit 3 only, which is a Limbasi facility. And there as I mentioned that we are seeing a lot of traction from our customers in terms of qualifying us for those products to certain customers. We have also given qualification samples and for some customers we are close to providing them validation quantities as well. So expect those commercializations to happen soon. Also for our other products such as in the immunosuppressants, we are also seeing.
Positive.
Feedback from certain customers in LatAm and those opportunities also we see materializing in the next couple of months' time as well. So there is growth both in the immunosuppressants and more particularly in the anti-infective antifungal segment. With that, as I mentioned, you know, in spite of the inter-unit sales, the growth in the API we expect it to be in the double-digit growth in spite of the sales happening, inter-unit sales happening.
So.
There are orders that we have from customers which would be executed in the subsequent quarters. So I do not see any reasons or any concerns on our API business per se.
Fair enough.
Ankur, just one clarification. When you talk about low double digit growth, this is for the fiscal or for the second half.
For the fiscal FY25
For the API business. But for the overall business, as I mentioned, that we remain in line with our long-term CAGR guidance of the 25% CAGR growth and grow higher than.
The historical growth that we have done.
Understood. And one final one. Generally before FY24 at least we had a heavy skew towards the second half in terms of our sales as well as EBITDA broadly used to be 40, 60, 40 being first half, 60 second half. Should we expect something similar this time around as well? Or you expect the mix to be slightly different?
See if we see that on our second quarter since last year has been relatively on the higher side compared to the historical way that we have grown in quarter two. But that being said, second half, as I said, is always going to be heavier than the first half. To what extent I won't be able to comment now, but definitely it is higher and it would make us in line with our guidance that we have.
Even for this year.
Understood.
Thank you and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, to make sure that the management is able to answer questions from all the participants, please limit yourself to two questions. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vivek Agarwal from Citigroup. Please go ahead.
Hi.
Thanks for the opportunity.
Ankur, is it possible for you to?
Give some color on how you grow, how the API segment have grown when it comes to volumes?
Right.
And how the prices have fared in this quarter? Because what we are hearing from across the board, API segment has seen a significant correction in terms of prices. So how you are seeing so the pricing and all these things? Thank you.
So you know, for our business, as I had mentioned, that most of the competition that we have on our commercial products is mainly from Europe and Southeast Asia. We do not see significant competition from China. And as there are very few, most of the products that we do, there is very limited competition. So given that we have not seen any significant impact on the API prices. But when we talk about how our API segment has grown, much of the growth has come from the formulations business which is primarily targeting the emerging markets. And if I have to be more specific, it would be Southeast Asia, LatAm and the U.S. market. So much of the growth in the formulation has been through these markets. And since we are fully integrated, that impact we are also seeing in the API through our inter- unit sales.
But coming to the other segments, as I mentioned earlier, that we are seeing good traction in the anti-infectives and antifungal oncology segments where for many of those we are trying to qualify ourselves as a secondary supplier because these are already generic products. But given our competitiveness and our global approvals, we are seeing good traction on these molecules. So we expect commercialization on these molecules.
In the coming quarters.
Thanks Ankur.
Just a related question. In the immunosuppressants and oncology, so is it possible for you to highlight which are the products or molecules that you expect to see some significant threats on this over the next one to two years?
If you see our portfolio, most of the products that we are manufacturing, there is very, very limited competition. You may see maybe one or two players on those products. Given that the opportunity is very large on these molecules, maybe the market size may vary between one molecule to the other. But if I have to name a few products, products like teicoplanin, nystatin, these are certain anti-infective products where we are seeing very good traction.
Thanks Ankur. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sumit Gupta from Centrum. Please go ahead.
Hi, thanks for the opportunity. So just one clarification. The double-digit growth in API for FY25 you said is only for the API. The formulation will not include. Right?
Sorry, could you repeat again?
Just wanted to understand on the double-digit growth in API for this quarter that you highlighted, what was the major reason for that?
So the double-digit growth in the API is to third-party sales and.
Does not include inter-unit sales.
In that case, what would be the
Growth for the formulation segment?
So the formulation segment continues to do well and going forward for the full year it should be relatively in line with the 80-20 split that we have.
Give or take 2%-3% here or there.
Understood.
Sir, what is the margin profile for both of these for API and formulation?
See, margin profiling between the two is relatively quite varied because as you would see in the API there are very limited players and hence the competition is very low.
We are competing with players only.
Based out of Europe and Southeast. Whereas in formulation since we are supplying to global market, there are a number.
Of players who we would be competing with.
Given that the profitability is very.
Difference between the two segments.
Okay.
And so, lastly, on the status of the unit. So just want to understand on. So is there any inspection left on, like, Unit 1?
Sorry, special.
Yes.
Have the inspection on for Unit 1.
Or the Dholka plant?
No.
So currently, you know, there is no inspection right now scheduled for Unit 1. However, as I mentioned earlier, that we've had a very good track record with the US FDA. And also in the last few quarters we have been inspected by other global regulatory agencies like Brazil, Europe, and Japan. So you know, given that we are still awaiting any news from the.
FDA for the Unit 1 inspection.
Thank you sir.
Thank you.
Thank you very much. Participants, to ask a question, you may press star and one on the Touch-Tone telephone. The next question is from the line of Chintan Sheth from Girik Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you. For the opportunity on the API front when you mentioned at growth level 9%-10% yy growth. This is for the quarter for the first half.
So the 9%-10% growth is for the first half considering the sales to inter- unit. Because as I mentioned that in certain markets we instead of going through the API we have gone through the formulation route. And if we would have considered the API sales to inter- unit, this would have the API growth would come to around 9%-10%. However, as I said that for the full year base we expect to grow in double digits without considering the inter- unit sales.
Got it.
The gross margin compression, as you were mentioning, the formulation is a high competition. Competitive, relatively high competition versus API. The mix between the current quarter where the formulation got to 26% share has the bearing on the gross margin. That understanding looks correct, right?
Yes.
So on account of the formulations.
Yes, that understanding is correct.
In fact, in this half year the percentage of API versus the formulation has been 26% and 74% against 15% and 85% respectively in the same period last year.
So since there is a significant shift.
In the significant shift in the split of these two segments.
So that's why it's been reflected over.
There in the gross margin.
So, nothing short of any pricing as you mentioned, no price tracking pressure either in the API or the raw material.
No, no.
If you would take it to a full-year basis and we get closer to the 80-20, relatively closer. The margins are already. All the others should fall pretty much closer to what the historical ratios have been or the guidance that we have given.
Right, right, got it. And if you can speak about the new pipeline we were planning to launch, working on eight products and planning to launch at least one or two products every year. On the API side, if you can talk about that, where are we in terms of new launches as well as what kind of market will open up in terms of global market will open up the opportunity for us. That would be the last question and I will jump back in, please.
If one would have to look at the market size for these eight to 10 products, I would say it would be close to around $1 billion at the API level. And in addition to these eight, 10 molecules, we also have other API products that we are working on. So it is not just limited to these eight to 10 molecules. So the market potential is quite huge for these newer products that we tend.
To commercialize in the next three to five years.
And all these molecules are again where we see limited competition. And these are complex products. So ample growth opportunities on these products. But every year we expect maybe around.
Two to three products to launch every year.
Right.
Any product you want to call out of it which you can be differentiated in high value products.
I won't specify any particular product, but as I mentioned earlier, all these products maybe the market size may vary, but if there is limited competition, I think it gives an ample opportunity to gain significant market share over the.
Next three-to-five years once we commercialize those products.
Sure, I'll tell.
Thank you.
Thank you very much, participants. To ask a question, you may press star and one on your touch-tone telephone. The next question is from the line of Rishabh Shah from Bugle Rock PMS. Please go ahead.
What is the USP of the Concord Biotech for immunosuppressants APIs? We are one of the few Indian manufacturers. What is different? We are doing what the larger market will be doing.
So I think what differentiates us is our expertise and our focus on growing on our strength which is fermentation. And you know, based on our expertise we have set up the infrastructure accordingly. So we have the economies of scale. You know Concorde has 1,250 meter cube of fermentation capacity spread across two units which I would say is one of the largest globally. So with our expertise with economies of scale, with global regulatory approvals as our sites are inspected by U.S, Europe, Japan, Korea, Brazil and many other authorities, so we become a one-stop shop for people who are looking, customers who are looking to source these fermentation API products.
And.
Based on our expertise over the years we've been able to capture a significant market share globally from some of our competitors who are based out of Europe and other parts of the world. So given that the way that we have grown in the immunosuppressants and also in other segments like in anti-infectives and oncology, there are certain products where we currently hold more than 20% of the market share like we have in the immunosuppressants. So it is not only about immunosuppressants but it is also about other products where we have significantly grown our market share over the years for these products. So it is mostly about our own focus on what we do best and then you know, keep working on building that portfolio.
We don't see many companies having that kind of fully integrated approach in some of the niche anti-infectives also. So which are through the fermentation. So what would be the reason why other companies are not able to do? Is it because you waited for two decades or what is it, sir?
So, as I said that, you know, it is all about the expertise. I think companies in, you know, in India have not focused on the fermentation, you know, while other segments, whether it is synthesis based or formulations, have grown. But fermentation is a very challenging, challenging process and it requires expertise to kind of run that. And in addition to that you need the economies of scale also because.
You.
Typically need very large fermenters to kind of run that process. So to set up that infrastructure also has high entry barriers which kind of.
Limits newer players to enter into segments such as this.
I might be repeating, but you said there are not many players in the industry who have done the fermentation process, correct?
That's correct.
In any of the areas. So, sir, why is it that no one has done it? Like, I wanted to understand the basics of it. Why isn't anyone able to crack this fermentation process in any of the areas?
So I think it has. See, there are higher entry barriers as I mentioned. So when I talk about. Because in fermentation what happens is that if you do not have a control on the process, you know, an A plus B can give you C1, C2, C3, you can get very different compounds if you do not control the process. Whereas in chemistry, if you see you will always get the same product every time you do because it is a chemical reaction. So to have that control requires that expertise. And that as I mentioned, there are not many companies who have that kind of expertise in the area of fermentation. And hence that limits players. And in addition to that there are a lot of entry barriers which has so much about whether it is the infrastructure cost as well, which also plays.
A role in limiting competition in this segment.
Any more entry barriers would like to suggest other than the cost of the infrastructure?
Expertise, I think having that expertise itself is one of the biggest barriers.
If you think about in the area of communication.
Okay, my last question is what is the reason for increases in demand for immunosuppressant APIs and why will it keep on increasing further.
Sorry, your voice is not there.
What is the reason for increasing demand for immunosuppressant APIs and why will it keep on increasing?
In fact, immunosuppressants.
We have been there in immunosuppressants since beginning from 2000 and now we have the full baskets of products in the immunosuppressant category.
So if you look at the market.
The use of immunosuppressants, it is growing.
At a CAGR of around 10% annually.
And in addition there is a, you know, there is a possibility of getting a market share from the existing customers as well.
That's why we expect that the.
Market for immunosuppressants going forward may be also lucrative for us.
Okay, okay, thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Harshal Patel from B&K Securities. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir, and thank you for the opportunity. So just two clarifications if I've missed it in your comments earlier. One was for gross margins compression. So sir, here we are saying that almost 450 bps of YoY gross margin compression has come on the back of a change in mix wherein we've got a higher share of formulations. So are we trying to see here that the formulations would have lower margin or if you could just help me.
Understand that.
That is correct. Yes, the margin in formulation is.
Lower than that of API.
Okay, okay, okay. And probably the trend would continue going ahead as well.
Right.
So, as I mentioned, that enough for us to have a double-digit growth in API, the second half should be more heavy on the API given that.
You know, we would see a similar.
Ratio of 80:20.
Between formulations and API.
So you know, give or take, we.
Expect to maintain that ratio of 80:20.
At the end of the year and with that, you know, most of the.
Most of the ratios and should fall in line with that.
So, just a follow-up to this point would be like as we expecting the overall mix to be around 80-20 for full year FY25 and going on ahead also. So are we therefore saying that in the second half the formulations would slow down and if that's the case, then what exactly were the products which drove the performance for Q2?
As I mentioned, 80:20 is our long-term guidance given the capacities, the portfolio, and the R&D products that we have, so this is our long-term guidance of 80:20. However, you may see some variability on that on a year-on-year basis, but for this year we do not see any significant variability on the 80:20 split, but the 80:20 is more of our long-term guidance given the capacities and.
The portfolio that we have which are commercial or under development.
And so just one last question if I can squeeze in. So the traction into the formulation segment which is there in Q2 to a certain extent would be maintained around in.
The second half as well?
I mean, I wouldn't say that so much of a big growth, but maybe in absolute numbers the traction should be maintained.
So if I understand, you know, we do see growth in the formulation segment in second half of the year as well.
Okay, sir, thank you. Thank you.
That's it.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Hussain Bharuchwala from Carnelian Capital. Please go ahead.
Just one thing between the two things on the injectables. We have been delaying the launch of the injectables facility for some time now.
What is the timeline or any reason that we have been delaying the.
Launch of the next slide?
So initially the injectable facility was expected to be commercial by end of September, October. However we have now taken it to February. So the facility is as I say, is ready. We are just undertaking the media fill studies and there was some delay in getting the approval from the Indian regulatory authority for the site. So given that we are going with our media fill studies, we expect that we would initiate the commercialization of products by February. So these three to four months of delay has been primarily, you know, that the team is taking a little bit more caution in terms of doing these studies and qualifying the water systems and other equipment.
I just want to understand in the formulation what is the percentage of the our hospital business? What we understand is in the hospital.
Business, probably the working capitals are little.
There are very less margins in the hospital business.
So, how much percentage of our overall?
Formulation business towards the hospital?
So you know, we supply our formulations to the Indian market to the large corporate hospitals, mid corporate hospitals, nursing homes. So we do not see any challenge in the pricing from these hospitals. But yeah, when you talk about the institutional sales which is to government institutions, there the margin profiling is slightly different from that you would see in the corporate hospitals. But in that case you do not have the spend on the marketing team. So it kind of then, you know, offsets the cost and the margins.
Got it.
Anything on the working capital that is higher than if you do in terms?
Of the government orders or on the.
the slide, if you can highlight working.
Capital with respect to the government orders.
Yes, that definitely slightly different because the receivable time is slightly more as compared to the corporate hospitals and the fleet business.
Got it, got it, got it. Good. That's it for myself.
Thank you.
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Sumit Gupta from Centrum. Please go ahead.
Hi.
Thanks for the opportunity again. I just want to understand on the global scenario, on the fermentation this API market. So how like overall, how big is the market and how many players do you directly compete with?
So, you know, the overall fermentation market would be close to around $11-$12 billion. But the kind of products that we are currently having, I would say that our target markets would be around 7.
To $8 billion.
This includes the pipeline products as well. Talking about the competition, I would say that there is no company globally with whom we compete on the entire basket of products. There are competitors globally where we compete with them on maybe one to two.
Maximum three to four products.
But we have a basket of almost 30 products. And most of this competition comes from Europe and Southeast Asia. So when we talk about Europe, you have players like Teva or like AMRI with whom we are competing. And in Southeast Asia, names like CCSB would be the one with whom we are competing. But globally, I would say a handful of companies with whom we are competing and some of these new products where we are working, names like Xellia, which is again based out of Denmark, so you know, they have maybe one or.
Two products on which we compete with them.
So limited competition and limited players who.
Are in this space of fermentation, but.
No company has that basket with whom we compete in entirety.
Understood. So the follow up on this. So basically the, let's say two or three large products, which are the major products for you. So in that case, what is, what market share would you be having and the other player, the second player would be having, sir, what is the differential market share between the two?
So it varies from product to product. But you know, our market share goes from anywhere between 20% of the world market share in terms of API volumes to anywhere around 40%-45%. And still as I say that even on 45% there is ample opportunity and we are already targeting customers to kind.
To capture the balance market share given.
Our strength in the pricing as well as on the regulatory approvals.
And the economies of scale that we bring in.
Okay, okay. The second is on the like. Just want to ask on the growth aspect. So it is majorly volume led, right? You have not taken price hike over the last three to four years. And you expected the trend to follow for the next four to five years?
That's correct.
Regarding the CapEx, is it maintenance only or you plan to add more?
So it is going to be maintenance CapEx. However, if we see that there are opportunities, as we have significant cash reserves, if we see that there are fewer opportunities on the inorganic growth, then we.
We may explore organic growth strategies as well.
Okay, and what will the criteria to do inorganic
again, acquisitions to fermentation?
Understood. Thank you, sir.
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Chintan Sheth from Girik Capital. Please go ahead.
Yes, thank you for the opportunity. On, you know the utilization part you mentioned Unit 2 is at 50% and Unit 3 at 38%, right?
Yes.
This is for first half.
Yes.
Okay. And the impact, if you can speak a bit more. Given the time timeline being taken up, is it fair to assume that the ramp up in the injectables will be a little faster given the approvals and everything we are kind of preempting before the commercial launch?
Yes, it should be faster because much of the development work has already been done on the first phase of molecules. So our timelines to filing would be faster. But the timeline that the regulators take to approve, I do not see any change there. So, you know. But yeah, timelines to file would be relatively faster. And as I said that in February or so we would be initiating the validation batches for some of our products which are already being concluded by our R& D development team.
Right.
Any initial orders or some confirmation from our client within the site, or it will happen after the commercialization happens.
Yeah. So after the commercialization, this is primarily going to be first API for the India market while we submit our dossiers in the emerging market. And once we get the approvals in the emerging markets is when the supply would start there. But till then it will be primarily catering to the domestic market.
Okay.
When we already have a significant sales
force to cater to that market.
And then when the injectable comes through, do you see the mix between API and formulation to change materially from 80:20 or it will over the next three-to-four years because it will take some time to reach optimum level?
I think as I said, that our long term guidance still stands at 80:20. Given the capacities and the asset turnover that we expect from all the three sites or all the four sites once they are optimally getting utilized, but intermittently, you would see certain years where that mix could change, but not that significant.
I think that's all for now.
Thank you.
Thank you. That was the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for the closing remarks. Thank you. And over to you.
Thank you everyone for joining on our Q2 FY25 earnings call. We hope we have been able to address all your queries. For any further information, please get in touch with us or SGA, our investor relations advisor. Thank you once again and have a good evening.
Thank you.
On behalf of Ambit Capital. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines.