Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the earnings conference call of Craftsman Automation Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator when pressing Star and Zero on your touch phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Srinivasan Ravi, Chairman and Managing Director from Craftsman Automation Limited. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Ravi.
Good afternoon, everybody, and thanks for joining the earnings call today. This time around, I would like to run through the changes which have happened in the last quarter, which is quite substantial. So I will take 10-15 minutes to highlight the changes and what is the ongoing projects and the status of the acquisitions. The strategic investments, what we have also announced at Hosur, also I'd like to highlight at the end of the presentation. Investments made during the current year was INR 1,015 crore, mainly for DR Axion, 24% stake to the balance, which is 254. Sunbeam investment was INR 606 crore as OCD. Some of it will come back when the land sale happens. Craftsman in Germany, INR 154 crore. It is INR 94 crore for acquisition and INR 60 crore towards working capital requirements, which is very strategic.
CapEx investments in Greenfield projects. CapEx has been INR 700 crore for the current period, including Greenfield at Bhiwadi, INR 180 crore excluding land because land is also a little common because we plan to house Sunbeam also when we shift to the Gurugram plant. Kothavadi is INR 91 crore. The status of the project, Sunbeam has become a wholly owned subsidiary from 9th October and achieved a turnover of INR 284 crore with a positive EBITDA of INR 10 crore. As planned, shifting of Gurugram plant has already started and hopefully completed by Q1 of FY26, after which we will start looking at the land sale of Gurugram. 50% of the employees have opted for VRS. We relieved them in November 2024. So balance, once the shifting is started, it is in April, May, we will be settling the balance for the VRS.
The order book status is comfortable and hope to achieve a reasonable turnover and positive EBITDA in Q4. Craftsman Germany has a consolidated revenue of 56 crore with a positive EBITDA. We hope to continue positive results in Q4. The order book for Craftsman Germany's calendar year of 2025 is full. Bhiwadi commences operation on 31 August, and you may know very well this is the first foray into structural parts, especially the alloy wheel, which is for the BIS initiated change in the country. So we had a timeline which for the festive season, so we had to put in all together. So for a small turnover of 38 crore, we had to spend a lot of money during this period. So we have brought the plant to production in a record time, that is from the land acquired in January of 2024. We started commercial production in August.
Because of this, there has been additional costs which were involved there. The plant is now operating at 20% efficiency and will be at 20% of capacity and will be at full speed by July of this year. Kothavadi has supplied several samples to customers waiting for approval, and we may start production Q4 of FY25. Sorry, FY25. The new Greenfield projects at Hosur has been planned to set up the alloy wheel plant in complementary with the Bhiwadi alloy wheel plant to supply to customers in the south. Both the plants have been fully booked for orders for the alloy wheel in Bhiwadi as well as for Hosur.
Consolidated EBITDA for the period has been INR 609 crores against the previous year nine months EBITDA of INR 684 crore for various reasons of the mini startup projects and also massive expansion and the issues related to the massive expansion which we have created the extra overheads. To look at the forward-looking view, the EBITDA contribution is from the company, is 284. Aluminum products is 315, and industrial engineering is INR 36 crore. Unallocated is INR 40 crore. The shortfall is mainly due to the expenses like acquisition costs related due diligence, legal, and other initial operating losses at Bhiwadi and Hosur. Now I'd like to run through the changes in the structure of the organization a little and also the change of the nature of the segments as we go on.
The powertrain at the IPO time, we were heavily dependent on the commercial vehicle segment, and we are looking forward towards more and more clients, mainly the multinational companies, setting up plants here for their starting of the diesel engine production in India, with a view for the Indian market as well as for the global market, which is still ongoing, and we have received orders. At the same time, the ramp-up has not happened. These are orders which will frutify in the coming couple of years, translating into revenue and profitability. Meanwhile, we have also embarked on a long-term project for the stationary engines, which we had declared to the shareholders and made them sensitive towards the long-term nature of this sort of investment because it's an exclusive club for the stationary engines.
Hardly 10 companies in the world are ruling the market for the stationary engines worldwide, and there is a big inflection point which has happened due to the data centers' growth, mainly driven by AI. So this was also highlighted in my chairman's speech during the annual report, which you might have read. So I'm proud to say and happy to share with the shareholders that we have got at least five engagements of the top 10 of the companies in a big way. We have received orders. It is already ongoing. The tooling process for the trials has started at our Unit 3 facility, and we have started tooling development to be the mass production, not mass production, production at Hosur plant.
Since the nature of these projects are long gestation for development, that is, the development period is 18-24 months, and the customer validation is almost a year. So we are almost off to the journey, and next one year later, we will see the revenues flowing to the stream. We got our footprint into this business at the right time overall, and we are looking at a revenue of $100 million in four years' time, only in the powertrain division, contribution coming from the stationary engines, mainly from the power generation. Now, coming to the aluminum segment of the business, when we went for the IPO, we were only in the two-wheeler business, only in the ICE, which is the two-wheeler business, with a small marginal presence on the four-wheeler business. Now, what we have transformed in the last year was DR Axion acquisition.
We had become predominantly the four-wheeler segment of the business. Our dependence on two-wheeler came down, and with the latest initiative into the Sunbeam acquisition, we have spread ourselves geographically very well, and also, the clientele of Craftsman and DR Axion, the overlap has been negligible, and also there's practically no overlap between the clientele of Sunbeam and Craftsman, and the process is also more or less not overlapping exactly, so there is some each of the companies is helping the Craftsman to leverage on this strength. For example, the Bhiwadi plant for the alloy wheel has been set thanks to the DR Axion acquisition, where it's clear that without that, the plant would not come up in a record time of eight months, which has never been done in this country so far.
Now, with this sort of an execution strategy, we got the second chance at Hosur now for the customers in south. The next is with this alloy wheel, which is also today a structural part of the two-wheeler. Our dependence on ICE for the two-wheeler also has dramatically come down. Still, on the consolidated, not consolidated, I think the segment-wise revenues of the aluminum products, it is predominantly four-wheeler with the marquee names in the domestic as well as the export customer range. And after this acquisition, we have reached a possible INR 4,000 crore revenue in the aluminum business in the next financial year, which is still sub-optimum when compared to the global majors, which I had highlighted in the past that we are not able to serve the global customers because of the size of the aluminum segment of the business.
At $500 million of INR 4,000 crore approximately, I think we are attracting a lot of attention globally for also export business. Now, coming to the industrial engineering segment of the business, we have done quite well on the automated storage business, and today our automated storage business is contributing to a very high percentage of the storage business. And the order book is for next year on the automated storage business quite full. So we will reap the benefit of profitability going forward on the storage business. We have given any guidance, but now that there has been a massive shift in the company's revenue growth and the acquisition, we need to look at the consolidated numbers of Craftsman going forward. Just to give a thumbs up on a guideline, which normally we never give, this is only a guideline.
We are looking at a consolidated revenue going from mid-INR 5,500 crores in the region from going to around INR 7,000 crore in the next financial year. It's not exactly apple to apple because some of the acquisitions have happened in the second half of this year. And the EBITDA consolidated number from around INR 850 crore range should go up to northwards of INR 1,100 crore, which is almost a 29% growth in the EBITDA numbers, which will lead to a 40% growth in the EBIT numbers, say from INR 500 to INR 700 crore in the coming year. So this is the projected revenue of the company which is for this massive expansion. This is the reason when we also have informed the shareholders in eventual QIP. This is a one-time QIP which we have raised.
In the history of the company, we had raised 150 crore in 2010 while on private equity, and during the IPO, we had raised only 150 crore. So 300 crore has been the cumulative infusion as capital of the company. Otherwise, the company has been organically growing. With the massive QIP infusion of 1,200 crore, we have re-ordered the multi-pronged strategy to take the company to greater heights. So we have developed the escape velocity to reach to the next level of the organization growth. So now there has been always when we are picking up the expenses right ahead of the project, one of the projects are risky projects, in my opinion, totally overall.
I think the 80%, 95% investment has gone into organic or acquisitions within the country, and hardly INR 150 crore has left the shores of India into outside a subsidiary, which is very, very strategic and which is helping the growth in the stationary engines. So we are very comfortable as Craftsman to be at a very low level of debt, but as I had mentioned earlier, for a short period of time, we don't mind exceeding the debt-to-EBITDA levels. So we are looking at a consolidated debt-to-EBITDA for this financial year as 2.24, which would have looked at 1.88 if the land sale of Gurugram, which will stretch around INR 300 crore plus, had happened in this financial year, but it's not going to happen. Otherwise, it would have been 1.88.
So anyway, we are very hopeful and quite confident that we'll be able to sell the land in the next financial year. With that, we expect the consolidated Debt-to-EBITDA to be around 1.4 in the next financial year. So going forward, in spite of the CapEx which is being done. So this is the headline which I would like to reiterate before I open the floor for customer answers.
So , shall we pass it back to you ?
Yes, yes, yes.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchscreen telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets and even restrict the question to two participants. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. First question is from the line of Mumuksh Mandlesha from Anand Rathi Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you so much, sir, for the opportunity. So firstly, just on the standalone margins which has come down sequentially, any reason for that segment margins to come down, sir? Any word on this, sir?
Yes. On the powertrain segment, we have built up capacity so far we are making only truck engines. We have built up machining capacity and other capabilities for handling large engine blocks or V12, V16, V20 that is weighing in tons. The machining technology is more or less same, but the equipment is quite different, so we have added more infrastructure plus machinery, front-end machinery, and started doing the trial production, so all those expenses have been booked in the powertrain segment. The powertrain segment by itself has not increased on the value addition. We also have invested for the TREM V for the construction equipment for the engine emission norm change and the new projects, whatever is there, we have set up some lines for export of not direct export. Our customers, international customers are exporting, so this is under trial production again.
We have made all the investments required and incurred the expenses as well as some overhead and people cost towards the growth, which is one of the reasons we are now looking at big growth going forward in the coming years. Powertrain will be a little delayed on the growth. Maybe one year later is more on the FY27 number. FY26 will see some portion of it. But I think the investments, as I mentioned, it's a long gestation. That is the reason. And any increase in depreciation and the stationary engines, which is there on the value addition portion of it, will directly hit the EBIT. So that is the reason. It's not anything of the organic performance or the execution portion of it. I hope I answered that.
Got it, Sir Ravi, I mean, all this effort, sir. I mean, any contribution you want to give? What kind of impact do you expect it would be, and I mean, once all things normalize, I mean, within FY27, any guidance you want to share on the margins for the powertrain segment, sir?
Yes. I have been guided as a company on FY26 overall, which I think the margins will swing back to the original margins in two years' time on the powertrain in the two phases because of the massive expansion.
Got it. Sir, on the expected cost savings for this Sunbeam acquisition, Sunbeam and the plant closure, can you share what kind of benefit it will bring to the EBITDA, sir?
You're talking about Sunbeam standalone or a consolidated number?
Sunbeam number, sir? Given the reduced employees and closed up the plant base.
We've not yet closed it. We are in the process of closing it, but I think we announced and we've taken the board approval. It has to go for a shareholder approval soon for selling the land of Gurugram, which is valued around INR 300 crore as a number approximately. So with which will you are asking for the number of plants today? Sunbeam has got five plants.
Yeah. You did actually imply cost for the plants because you'll be closing some of them.
Yes. Five plants will become four plants in one sense or another quickly, but I think that the one plant will be the same location as Craftsman's current Bhiwadi plant, which will be shipped there. Yes. The employee cost is going to come down by at least 20% minimum. And further, we need to improve the operations and process to bring down the employee cost further. Employee headcount further. Employee cost will be per head will be increasing as we move on, but I think the employee headcount will continuously reduce in the next two years.
Got it, sir. So can you share what the next nine months has been and what is the full year guidance? And also for next year, if you can share the guidance.
This is we are looking at standalone Craftsman. It is 8X.
Yeah. You can have the installed number, sir.
Installed number, I do not have it ready-made available today for next year on this matter because we are contemplating for Sunbeam whether we need to modernize quickly or modernize slowly. It's a decision that will be taken. So we are looking at INR 700 crore until now. The CapEx done with Craftsman and maybe another INR 150 crore for the quarter. So around INR 850 crore for this year. Next year, I think it should be less than half the number, including the maintenance CapEx.
Okay, sir, and just lastly.
Thank you, sir. If you may, I request that you please rejoin the queue. We have participants waiting for the turn. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will request you to kindly limit your questions to two per participant. The next question is from the line of Jinesh Gandhi from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. My question is on this question related to my initial different integration performance. So if you can highlight the integration factor of some acquisition on the aluminum consolidated margin, what was the impact of that? And even on the standalone powertrain business, you talked about the intergration costs coming in, and standalone aluminum also had Bhiwadi plant impact. So if you can talk about the impact of this transition cost, which are there in P&L, that will make it easier for us to understand.
Sunbeam was a bit positive in the Q3, but at the EBIT level, and it is negative totally, and so that would have around INR 9 crore at EBIT, minus INR 9 crore at the Sunbeam level, and for the Bhiwadi plant, I think it is quite substantial because of the startup cost. It is around INR 20 crore is the negative EBIT at Bhiwadi, so both put together, we can see around close to INR 50 crore was impacted only in the Q3 on the aluminum segment.
And similarly for the powertrain, given there was so much investment on the stationary engine as well as.
Overall, I think 50% has come from the stationary engines, whatever the development we are doing, and half of it has come from people lines and capacity which are set up for various customers, which the production has not either is a startup production or is not a ramped up. So overall, I think it's a 50/50 of the cost because we have many plants for the powertrain now totally.
Got it. But any sense on the combined cost for that would be it?
You're talking about the cost. One is the inflation of people cost. The absolute value addition has not gone up. The revenue has not seen the growth. So there is an inflationary pressure. So I would say 25% or 30% is inflationary pressure because of no growth. Balance 60%-80% is the cost of new projects, both for the stationary engines as well as for the new lines.
Got it. So can we, when we look at the derived DR Axion revenues, it's seen about a decline on YoY basis shortly too. Is that observation right on the DR Axion? What would lead to that?
There's no revenue decline from DR Axion engines you're talking about, no?
Yeah. I'm thinking the 38% revenue contribution from the aluminum and solid, but the other revenues then comparing it with last year's switch, maybe that derivation is not the right thing.
I'm not clear, and your question is not audible, and I'm not sure I understand the question, please.
So DR Axion business, how was the growth in the DR Axion business?
There's no growth in the DR Axion business. It is important. I think it has been very stable because it is directly linked only to three customers, and it is in the public domain. The customers' growth in cars, stationary engines, or the growth.
Right. Okay. I got that, and lastly, what companies are consolidating now, and what companies are still in this cost by one year that some of these companies get initialized?
I had mentioned the consolidated for this projected for this financial year. So I'm looking at the projected number for this financial year as a consolidated debt. We are looking at around INR 850 crore. It's INR 1,900 crore as a consolidated debt. So that EBITDA will be 2.24, which I read out. And if the land sale had happened, it would have been INR 1,600, but it's not happening this year, the financial year. It would have been 1.88 at the EBITDA. So next year, we are talking about.
What are we talking about for the INR 1,500 crore?
So this is the normal debt we have got. I think there's nothing different from the market trend, I would say. It will appear on the numbers you think we have taken offline.
19%.
Okay.
Got it. Thanks. I'll call back.
Plus minus.
Okay. Thanks. I'll let him keep some more questions.
Okay. Okay.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Abhishek Jain from Alfa Accurate Advisors Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity and congrats for the nice set of number despite the losses and challenges. In this quarter, we have seen a significant growth on numbers like current expenditure and employee costs. So if you can throw light on, what is the extraordinary expenditure in this quarter or one-off in the consolidated year?
There are three components to it. One component is we have looked at what is the requirement for next year and started taking people, employees, and training it. That is one long-term objective. Short-term objective is how to manage the Sunbeam acquisition and the two greenfield facilities of Craftsman owned at Kothavadi and owned at Bhiwadi. So there has been expenses occurring and people cost incurred even before the start of the production. So these are the two major components. The third major component is the normal inflation, which is happening for the people cost, which we have been always talking about, and we are more inclined towards semi-automation and improvements of processes to not increase the headcount, which is inflationary.
Is there any legal and compliance charges in this quarter because of the acquisition of the three companies and other expenditures?
Yes, that is there because we have acquired. There is a Sunbeam-related expenditure at Craftsman. There is also DR Axion expenditure. Also for Kronberg, Germany, there is an expenditure. These are all one-time expenditures. Yes.
How much is it? Significant chunk in the number.
Getting that into detail will not be. It will be time-consuming. If you don't mind, we can come back at the end of the Q&A so that we will give a chance to everybody. If you don't mind.
My last question on the powertrain business. The three biggest entities reside in the three parts. One is standalone, another is Sunbeam, and the other is Kothavadi. How do you see it scale up in all three businesses, and how will the margin profile be applied to the other?
So, I didn't understand the question, and the voice clarity is a little poor. I think one question, if you ask at a time, I think is better. I think. Please, can you repeat?
Just wanted to understand the scale on the Sunbeam business and Kothavadi.
Germany business is not scalable to that level. Maybe 5-10% we can grow because it is a fixed plant, and we are expecting to increase revenue by 10%. That's what we are looking at. We are getting a strategic advantage that the same team is working for us on the development of products in India. Even now, as we speak, teams of Craftsman and Kothavadi are together at a customer place in Europe for discussions for a project to be brought to India. So this is the advantage. One good thing is this company has got marquee customers, I think, that are very good engine customers for that, and they have decades and decades of experience there, people knowledgeable.
So this is giving a lot of trust to the customer, and they are giving business to either Kronberg or to Craftsman, as the case may be, wherever it's suitable. So we've been able to acquire quite a substantial business in the last few months after the Kronberg acquisition.
Okay, sir, and so is there any rate determination for some of the countries in 2024?
Pardon, sir? Sorry?
Yes, sir. Kothavadi is around INR 1,800 crore. What is it?
No, can you without the speaker? Can you come because I think the voice is a problem?
Hello? Are you able to hear me?
Oh, I'm able to hear you. Yes.
Yeah. The total is now INR 1,800 crores. And so just wanted to understand what is your decision plan in the coming years?
No, the debt has been taken recently. The debt has been set for, I think, probably five to six years, right? It will be more or less linear, I would say. But as I mentioned, the debt will be coming down in the next year in one big chunk when the Kothavadi sorry, the Gurugram plant is getting sold, which is quite substantial, is a 10 or more. And next year, with the CapEx being lower on the consolidated balance sheet itself, the debt is likely to come down. So I had shared the debt numbers when I read out the debt numbers. I can read it again now.
Okay, sir.
We are expecting the debt to come down next year, INR 2,400 crore on the consolidated level.
Okay, sir. Thank you for that information. Thank you.
Thank you. Participants are requested to kindly use handsets while asking a question. The next question is from the line of Joseph George from IIFL Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. I have two questions. One is you mentioned that Sunbeam had negative EBIT, and similarly, the Bhiwadi plant was also below EBITDA. So when we think about the EBIT in 2026, would it be fair to presume that on a full-year basis, Sunbeam would be at least EBIT neutral in 2026? And similarly, when do you expect Bhiwadi plant to become EBIT neutral?
The Bhiwadi plant will be EBIT neutral starting from Q1 of FY 26. And the Sunbeam will be I mean, the Bhiwadi plant will be EBIT positive by single digit by end of FY 26. And Sunbeam by itself will be EBIT positive by Q2 of next financial year, FY 26. And for the full year, it will be EBIT positive.
Understood, sir. And the second question I had was in relation to your aluminum segment. So when I looked at the aluminum segment, EBIT at the consolidated level is about 72 crores a quarter. And at the standalone level, it's about 80 crores a quarter, which means that it increased our positive EBIT contribution of about 62 crores. Now, the EBIT for Sunbeam is minus 9, as you mentioned, which means that the residue is about 61 crores of positive EBIT. Is this entirely DR Axion, or is there any other benefit there?
See, most of the Craftsman's own EBIT has been more or less been wiped out because of two reasons, mainly because of the Bhiwadi project, I would say, in total on this.
That's actually the. I'm sorry to interrupt. My question is more on what is the EBIT in these companies. So consolidated segment is 2 for the aluminum segment. For consolidated aluminum segment, it would be 72. Standalone aluminum segment, EBIT is 20. Remaining is 52. I wanted to see the breakdown of the 52.
So I think I will request somebody from my side to answer this, please.
Just actually, the difference is the inter-group adjustment, which has happened because of the standalone that has been categorized as the others segment because some trading has happened between the groups. That is the thing. And so this is only an inter-group adjustment, which we'll explain later.
Understood. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Mukesh Saraf from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. My question is on the advisory segment. So what would we have once the consolidated plant is ready to come into?
Consolidated plant will be operational by Q2 of next financial year. And Q4 of next financial year, it will be fully at full capacity. And we are expecting the capacity of each of these plants is around 400 crore plus. Bhiwadi alloy wheel and the Hosur alloy wheel plant, both put together, the peak capacity, which we expect in FY 2027, will be between the two plants at 800 crore on alloy wheel.
[audio distortion]
Mr. Mukesh Saraf, we are unable to hear you clearly, sir.
Is it cut out?
Yes. Can you please switch onto the handset mode?
Sorry. Can you switch it to something?
We talked about in FY 2027, each of the plants, Bhiwadi Alloy Wheel and Hosur Alloy Wheel, each will contribute more than INR 400 crore on the top line.
Okay. And secondly, on the Kothavadi plant, you mentioned that these basically can start next year. Will it start with construction in the next quarter itself?
No.
Is that the?
No, sorry. Sorry. The toolings itself, as I mentioned, the plant is constructed as a bio-production. The toolings are getting ready in Germany. The toolings itself will be delivered only in the middle of next year. So we will not see revenue from the industrial engine portion, but we are doing some engineering parts on that. That will Kothavadi plant is also going to serve that. So there will be some revenue from the Kothavadi plant, but not from the powertrain.
Right. So any kind of income out of that business be off of these engines from Bhiwadi plant?
The Kothavadi plant and the machining capacity which we have put up and are in the process of putting up at the Arasur plant in Unit 3 in Coimbatore. On the stationary engines, we are looking at around FY28, FY29, that range. We are looking at around $100 million, around INR 800 crore revenue, which I had mentioned in my opening remarks, which will add to the powertrain, which will be quite significant.
Excuse me, sir. Before you start the stationary engine, what I was asking, this engineering, as you were saying, it will start some kind of revenues will start from the Kothavadi plant. How much of that could that be?
That should be around 150 crores for the full next financial year because most of the trial run is the greenfield facility. So and the first time we are getting the Craftsman foundry, so it will be a little slow start.
Got it, sir. Got it. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Okay.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ganeshram from Unifi Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you for taking my time. Now, my questions are more on the long-term strategy that you're adopting. So I'll have two options, please. The first one is just on the Kronberg acquisition and this move into stationary engines, right? So there's obviously a long gestation period, 18-20 years once you develop it, one year for approval, right? So what are some of the risks that we have to be conscious of when we go through such a long development process? And overall, what gives you the confidence that there will be acceptability of the product at the end of this journey, right? How are we players versus competitors, and what's the edge that you're bringing to these OEMs? That's the first question, sir.
Okay. Thank you for the question. I will answer the question faster.
May I request the participants to please mute their lines, right? There is a disturbance coming from the.
Yeah. Yeah. Please do that. On the Powertrain, the past history, all the stakeholders know that we do not have a Craftsman foundry on the Powertrain. We are partnered with one of the leading foundries for the smaller castings 20 years ago and the entire two when the relationship was strong for exports to mainly commercial vehicle segment and North America. It has been going on for more than two years now. The second tie-up we made was a leading axle casting manufacturer in another listed company, which is clear, and this has been almost a decade now, and their exports have grown, and we have tied up to them.
For the other engine blocks, the leading foundry in India, where we have been partnering ever since we took the Daimler business in 2008, 2009, and we have been partnering with them for, I think, around 18 projects with the powertrain, so we have not infringed any of these customers by micro-integrating anywhere, and our relationship remains strong, and we have opened a new avenue on the stationary engines, which was not available for the Indian market or the global market because most of the multinationals are even today doing in-house overall, and the outsourcing has been negligible because of the difficulty in technology, both on the casting and machining, and the number of casting players also in the whole world, including China, including the OEMs themselves, hardly 10 players are there.
And standalone machining companies who are doing this really, maybe three, four in the whole world, totally overall. So we, as a machining company, are. It is, for us, a normal migration. It is a challenge, but it has gone through already. We have some good samples that got approved. On the casting side, with Kronberg acquisition, we don't see any risk there because the technology is already in-house there. See, only the gestation period is there to develop this. Otherwise, the customer themselves will not be placing order. Now, you may say customer approval may not come, but customer skin in the game is very high on the pattern tooling equipment, which is running one block. I think it is costing millions of dollars for the tooling cost, which customer pays for.
So the new customer is going to just like that, select a supplier, and a lot of engineering costs they will incur while during the development stage itself overall. So it is a very, very strategic relationship. It is a very, very sticky business. So we will be through with that.
Thank you, sir. So that's clear. Another question that I had is, with all the consolidation and the activity that you've undertaken, what would sort of be how should we implement your exposure to ICE from a product portfolio point of view? And how will that evolve in the coming years, right? For each of the segments, how would we be exposed to ICE? And how do we sort of de-risk that over the coming years? And would it be possible to sort of maintain these margins or improve them as we go forward through that process as well? I think you've been a bit in position with the granularity and nuances of that, but broad understanding and trying to develop is on those two elements.
For the powertrain, 100% of it is ICE-related. I would say 90% is ICE-related. Some are transmission parts which can be neutral, whether it's ICE or not. But these are not. I think the passenger vehicle segment on the powertrain is negligible. Okay. Overall, only 5.5% of them people. Balance is all related to commercial vehicle, construction equipment, and mainly arm segment. And now we are coming into stationary engines. And all of the multinational companies on these stationary engines are, we have large capacities for growth, which they see for the next 10 years, totally, on the stationary engines for backup generators. So I don't see any risk on the powertrain part of it. And India is becoming slowly quite a big hub going forward because now there's no more investment happening from multinationals into China.
So we will see growth happening on that front also for the global market. Yes, as we improve our revenue stream there, the operating leverage will better. Margin should improve going forward. We hit the lowest level in this particular financial year. From next year onwards, it will look positive going forward. On the aluminum business, we have a segment which is now more predominantly on the passenger vehicles and also significantly high on the two-wheeler segment, which we have de-risked with also the structural parts of the alloy wheel. So overall, the capacities and capabilities are fungible. The casting process by itself, high-pressure die casting, gravity die casting, low-pressure die casting, they do not. The missions of the equipment or the people do not differentiate between what is the end application of these particular parts, whether ICE or non-ICE.
We are more interested in gravity and low pressure going forward more and more because we see, just like on the two-wheeler, the lightweighting has happened on the aluminum front. On the passenger vehicle, the aluminum content will go up, whether it's ICE or EV, both it will go up. So we see the capability of the casting point of view remaining the same. So these capacities are fungible with EV on the aluminum segment. I hope I've answered that clearly.
Yes, sir. Thank you very much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sagar Parekh from Sundaram Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Sagar Parekh, please go ahead with your question. Your line is unmuted. As there is no response, we'll move to the next question, which is from the line of Jinesh Gandhi from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. On the stationary engine, you indicated we are working with three of the top 10.
Mr. Gandhi, may we request you to please turn on your handset mode?
Yeah. Sorry. Give me a second.
Yes. Please go ahead.
Yeah. You talked about you're working with some tight customers of the stationary customers on the stationary engine side, and you have got others as well. Can you confirm the quantity of the order, the number of the order which you have got for the stationary engines on that side?
I had mentioned that in FY 2029, we will be doing around $100 million on the casting and machining plant. How it evolves in the in-between period depends on the time of the gestation for the approvals. So we are targeting $100 million by FY 2029, if not earlier.
So would you say it's 100 million orders or 100 million?
So I cannot give strategic answers, Mr. Jinesh Gandhi, because there are many people interested in this call in detail with customer, where we are and what we are on this matter. And we acquired a company in Kronberg, which is I think in the way in public domain to be exposed. That is already there. I'm not putting that into the $100 million sort of business. So you know very well then we are going to make it a higher capacity in India. The casting percentage should be higher. And today, the growth in the market segment is 18%. I had made a public disclosure in my chairman's speech itself that this is going to be a growth area overall. And the projections of these customers, whether some of it is going to be organic, they have been making progress within.
Most of the companies are looking at outsourcing, if possible, and not many outsourcing partners are there. So I think the size of the business, what you're talking about, the $100 million is pretty conservative, considering the inquiries we have or the orders in hand or the orders are just which are about to finalize. I think this will be a very sticky business, as I mentioned.
Sure. And a second question on the stationary engine business, we have a plan. We are expecting 70% of over 800 cores and a recommended capacity of 91 cores.
Sorry, Mr. Gandhi. I think there's some big mistake in what we are looking at. It is the combination of casting and machining together, which is $100 million, which I had mentioned. Machining capacity has been put up at our facility, at Unit 3, which we started earlier. To put the record straight, since you were asking two more questions, we are getting castings all the way from North America. We are getting castings from Germany as we speak. It is being shipped to Craftsman, and we are machining samples. Next year, we will be looking at export of castings, which we are importing from Europe and from North America because even then, our Kronberg facility will not be up to speed to deliver that.
So this means the customers are going to ship the castings to us, and we are going to machine in India and bring it back. So this is the nature of the business currently. It's an exclusive club, so it is not easy to break through, and we have taken a big step towards breaking through into this segment of the business.
Most likely, it is on the query business. The last question is on the storage business side. So we indicated automated storage is full. Can you tell me what percentage of our orders would be from automated storage and what percentage of Q3 revenue came from automated storage?
See, the Q3 revenues of the automated storage has come from orders which have received more than one year back because of the gestation period for automated storage because it requires a new land building site for the customer side, and not land, at least the building site, and also the execution time for such long gestation projects with this electrical, electronics, mechanical software, and the integration with their ERP system, which is working. So we are having a storage revenue on the automated storage. How much it was? It was for the year to date, it has been INR 142 crore for the automated storage. For the nine-month period, it has been around INR 250 crores. So INR 200 crore has been the revenue, and this year we'll be closing at around INR 500 crore, which is a big milestone overall because we started practically on the revenue side post GST.
We have been preparing from 2012 onwards. Within the five years of up and running, we will be touching INR 500 crore revenue, and we are already in the top three bracket on the static racking. And among the Indian players on the automated racking, we are among the top two already.
Great. So thanks for all of this. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sagar Parekh from Sundaram Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. I have one question. From your guidance, the incremental revenue and EBITDA, where do you think will be coming from Kothavadi. so if you can give some broad statistics on the INR 7,000 crore and the INR 1,100 crore, the increment is going to go for next year.
So we look at the revenue for this quarter, which is an indication of where we are going. We are looking at a revenue of Q3 has been the number. What's the number exactly? The Q3 number. Q3 consolidated number.
Okay.
Yeah. 1,576. If you are looking at that, Q4 itself, it is coming to around 6,000 crore, so it will be much higher than this number in Q4 without any contribution from other plants and negligible contribution from the Bhiwadi plant overall. And so I think it is a quite conservative number what we are given. 1,576 into Q3 has been always a lower number because of the market situation, and if you multiply that with Q4, it is 6,300 crore, so I had given a top line of 7,000 crore, which is quite conservative.
Okay. So you're seeing incrementally from the Q4, as you mentioned, that will come through, and then some from 200. So that's what incremental.
Yeah. Kronberg may be 100 crore or 20 crore, but I think Bhiwadi will be quite significant in the next financial year because we will be peaking at Q2 itself before the fiscal year on the capacity will be done because we have set up the plant within eight, nine months. Normally, the plant takes 18 months to set up. So we will be up to speed on that level. So we are looking at more than 300 crore revenue from Bhiwadi plant itself and maybe 100 crore from the Hosur plant. So with that, it will come around to 7,000 crore, but I'm a little conservative in saying that a higher number than that.
Okay, sir. And on margins, I mean, EBITDA, 850, 1,100, that run?
Yes. EBITDA, we are looking at for the consolidated number, we are anywhere between INR 2,000 crore and INR 2,100 crore on the result numbers.
Okay. Which will be driving primarily? Again, your Bhiwadi and the same revenue that you mentioned.
I would say this year has been little because of the losses, which we already have shown because we have incurred monthly expenditure maybe for our commissions. And also, we had losses from Bhiwadi and some incidents from Kronberg totally. And we have geared up in Craftsman to manage Sunbeam also. And we are supporting Sunbeam for tools and lights and other technical operations because not much of investment has gone into Sunbeam overall. Our engineering resources are working there for that matter. And it's all a combination of many things.
Great, sir. Congrats on all the success for your strategic journey. Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abhishek Jain from Alfa Accurate Advisors Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Thank you. In this quarter, we have seen a significant jump on the interest and appreciation growth. So if you can give some color on the quarterly rate of interest and appreciation from quarter one FY 2026?
I think it will be a little, not apples to apples because we had in between raised equity, and then we had spent it for acquisitions. Then we also started greenfield investments. We will not be able to exactly tell. I think this is the current interest cost is around 9%, I would say. The debt we already mentioned, the debt level. Depreciation currently is.
Yeah. We should be just INR 103 crores.
195 crore depreciation. Yes.
Hello?
Yes. Yes, please.
Yes, sir. So depreciation is INR 103 crore in quarter three. So what would be the depreciation in Q1 FY 2026?
252 crore is the depreciation for the year to date, right? Totally, this is not an apples to apples because some of the subsidies have been only for this quarter. So this quarter depreciation all put together is how much? Result number? 103? 103? 103 is the number? So we are looking at around INR 400 crore depreciation for the next financial year.
400 crore, sir?
Yes, 400.
Sir, in income tax, because of the losses that came in these companies, can we assume that the tax will come down significantly because of this?
Only the Sunbeam there is some tax cover. Otherwise, there's no tax cover anywhere else. It's always been profitable, I would say, totally on this. And the ORC subsidy is on some scale. It is not a company which we have taken over. So the tax benefits will maybe around INR 100 crore will accrue over to Sunbeam over a period of two to three years as a maintaining profit.
Most of the tax rate will come down to that in FY 26 because of the INR 100 crore kind of the benefit?
No, that is only the subsidy. It will be on Sunbeam. It will not reflect on Craftsman's tax structure nor on DR Axion tax structure.
Okay.
You have to pay the full normal corporate tax, 25%, is it? Yes.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Ravi for closing comments.
Thank you very much for all of you to participate in this. And I want to make some important concluding remarks. This is the time to scale up when we are looking at import reduction. The government is also very serious about it to grow the Indian industry. We are also having a slowdown, a little slowdown of growth where our customers are not growing as we would like to. There has been a geopolitical situation. There is an opportunity where we can expect a lot or the multinationals are setting up shop in India. On top of it, we are also reaching an inflection point as a customer that understands as a company where we need to break through on new avenues for a growth trajectory.
So for that, the company has to take up some amount of pain and a little amount of leverage for a short period of time, so only when we have capacity, only then the customers are interested to look at us. Otherwise, China's growth story has been always that capacity front and then others follow. We are not being so aggressive there, but we are slightly being a little laggard of capacity now for the first time, and we will see the fruits of it in the coming years. Thank you very much for staying with us.
Thank you. On behalf of Craftsman Automation Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.