Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Akash, moderator for the conference call. Welcome to Elin Electronics Limited Q3 FY 2026 investors call. As a reminder, all participants will be in listen-only mode, and there'll be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone telephone. Please note, this conference is recorded. I would now like to hand over the floor to Mr. Gulshan Singh. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yeah. Thank you, sir. Good afternoon, and very warm welcome to everyone. On behalf of Sunidhi Securities, I welcome you all to Elin Electronics Limited Q3 FY 2026 earnings conference call. Today, we have with us our management, represented by Mr. Kamal Sethia, Managing Director; Mr. Sanjeev Sethia, our Director; Mr. Akash Sethia, Head of Strategy; and Mr. Praveen Tandon, our CEO. We thank Elin Electronics Limited for giving us the opportunity to host the call. I would now like to hand over the floor to the management for their opening remarks, after which we will open the floor for Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, Sanjeev, sir.
Thank you very much, Mr. Gulshan. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. This is Sanjeev Sethia, Director at Elin Electronics, and we also have on call today our Managing Director, Mr. Kamal Sethia, our Strategy Head, Mr. Akash Sethia, and our CEO, Mr. Praveen Tandon. Thank you for joining our call for the third quarter and nine months of fiscal year March 2026. Coming to our overall performance for the quarter, operating revenues for the quarter was INR 294 crores against INR 266 crores in the same period last year, up 10% on a year-on-year basis. Our revenue growth was driven primarily because of strong growth in our appliances and fan business. This can be attributed to new product launches and customer acquisitions.
Consolidated EBITDA for the quarter was INR 11.9 crores against INR 7.6 crores the same period last year, representing a strong growth of 57%. While margins improved, we saw, we saw sharp surge in raw material costs due to increase in key raw material prices like copper, steel, aluminum. This impacted gross margins for the quarter. Consolidated tax for the quarter was INR 3.8 crores against INR 1.4 crores in the same period last year. Our liquidity position remains strong, with net cash of INR 59 crores as at December 2025. Our working capital position is at net 68 days due to higher than normal inventory levels. We expect this to normalize within this quarter. Our CapEx, CapEx spend in nine months for fiscal year 2026 was at INR 24.5 crores.
As stated in our earlier calls, the aspiration is to be one-stop shop for all high volume home appliance and durable needs of OEMs and our customers. This includes our existing business, lighting, fans, small appliances, and our planned new business, medium appliances such as air coolers, chimneys, ovens, et cetera. We will continue to look for such products to next several quarters. Now, I would like to share with you the performance and the strategy in each of our business verticals. In lighting, fan, and switch segment, the revenue for the quarter was INR 62.3 crore against INR 67.6 crore in the same quarter last year. This was primarily driven by strong increase in revenues from fan, which was partially offset by a marginal decrease in revenue from lighting.
LED lighting, excluding flashlights, declined from INR 51.2 crores in last quarter to INR 38.6 crores in the current quarter. As mentioned earlier on our call, this was largely led by volume decline from Signify, which was largely offset by gains from new customers added. The revenue run rate on a quarter-on-quarter basis is on a improving trajectory. As on date, we are serving five new customers in lighting in addition to Signify. As on date, on an incremental basis, our new customers are contributing to 50% of our revenues on a monthly basis. We have hired a new business head with strong exposure in the lighting business. With his experience and customer connections, we reiterate that we expect double-digit growth in our lighting business in FY 2026, 2027.
Moving on to our fan business, we have seen strong growth of 100% in our fans business on a year-on-year basis. This has primarily been driven by our BLDC ceiling fan business. We are also working on diversifying our customer base and adding new customers. We expect this strong growth momentum to continue in Q4 as well. Our TPW business is showing robust demand. Overall, we expect fans to grow by another 50% in fiscal year 2026-2027. Moving on to the home appliance segment, revenue growth was robust and increased from INR 52.3 crores last quarter to INR 102.8 crores this quarter. Kitchen and home care revenues increased by 330% year-on-year basis. This was largely on the back of OFRs.
Our existing business, businesses of irons, mixer grinder, et cetera, has seen good volume growth as well. Personal segment was down 10% year-on-year demand due to weak demand in hair straighteners and trimmers. Future growth is going to be driven by this segment and our strong focus on also growing ODM share of the business. While still nascent, we expect ODM to grow strongly over the next several quarters. A quick update about the medium appliance category. While these will be built out of Bhiwandi unit, which will start from next fiscal, we have already reinitiated discussions with customers for this. We have a strong outlook for our OFR business for next fiscal, as well as happy to share that we have tied up with two customers for the to-be-launched chimney business. We had shared our optimism in our last call about our relatively recent export business.
We remain in exploratory talks with a few OEMs to supply from India and export to the USA. Discussions will now commence, given the easing of the tariff situation. We are very hopeful of restarting our fan export to USA. Further, the government push for Make in India and decentralizing imports via BIS and QCO makes us further optimistic on our business going forward. Moving on to the FHP motor segment, revenue declined from INR 55.8 crore in last quarter this year to INR 45.6 crore this year. Please note, this segment reflects only third-party sales. Therefore, while segment sales appear declining, underlying growth is strong, given that there is captive consumption of motor for the appliance business.
In terms of pipeline of new products to be launched, we'll be launching the cooler motor and the BLDC chimney motor by the next year for both third-party sales and captive consumption towards manufacturing the finished product. I would like to share our guidance of 9%-10% for revenues from 2025-2026, FY 2025-2026. Our guidance included revenues from export to USA, which has been nil since August 2025 due to the tariff situation. We are optimistic that the situation is expected to be resolved soon. We are hopeful of adding a few more export projects over the course of next four to six quarters. EBITDA forecast for the year is forecast at 5.3%-5.8% margin. Please note that the margin on export is higher than domestic sales, therefore, EBITDA margin has been impacted.
CapEx for the year will be INR 100 crore-INR 110 crores, split as INR 60 crores-INR 65 crores for phase one of the new plant at Bhiwandi and INR 35 crores-INR 40 crores for growth of the existing businesses and factories. Once the new facility is stabilized in two years from starting, this will also help us drive up our ROCE, since cash sitting idle on our balance sheet has been a drag on the return on capital employed. A quick update on the Bhiwandi factory. Total project cost is estimated at INR 100 crores. Construction has commenced in July 2025 and is progressing well. Given the current progress, we expect the plant to be ready and operational by May 2026. There's a slight delay due to the pollution control restrictions imposed by the government.
We expect revenue of INR 140 crores in FY 2027 and INR 250 crores in FY 2028. Reiterating that, as per current estimates, revenue potential of the plant is INR 550 crores-INR 600 crores. Further, we expect a steady-state EBITDA of 7%-7.5% for this plant. At these levels, return on capital employed for the plant will be at 20%. With this, we conclude our opening remarks. We can now open the floor for question and answers. Thank you very much.
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. If you have a question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad, and wait for your turn to ask the question. If you would like to withdraw your request, you may do so by pressing star and one again. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any questions, please press star and one. Let us wait a while until the question queue assembles. The first question comes from Mr. Rahil Dasani from MAPL. Please go ahead with the question, sir.
Yeah. Hi, I'm audible?
Yes, sir.
Yeah. Good afternoon, and thank you for the opportunity. First of all, congrats on the set of numbers. I'm rather new to the company, so some more simpler questions. For these new products that we are getting into or even the new customers that we are entering, you yourselves have said in the previous con calls that competition is high. So on what basis or USP or value addition are we able to enter the new customers whose supply chains are already fixed and established?
Yeah, sure, happy to answer this. So if you see in terms of the new products which we are entering into, A, of course, the oil-filled radiators, which we already started last year, and this is our tech. Then we are getting into chimneys and air coolers. These are the three products which are targeted, you know, which are absolutely new for us. B, basically, in terms of competence and, you know, the kind of backward integration which we have in all these two, three product categories is, is, you know, advantage to us as over competition. So for example, in oil-filled radiator heater, heaters, we are the only company in India who is doing the complete frame assembly locally. The rest is being either imported in kit form, and just assembly is being done.
So we have a distinct advantage, and now after two years under our belt, we are further scaling up our local manufacturing facility, so we become naturally competitive with shorter lead times. So I think, in this, as you know, we want to capitalize on our first mover capacity to a level that, generally, you know, it's a limited market, so other customers will not-- or other competitors will not easily look at localizing the same assembly here. So that's the one advantage of the kind of backward integration which we have.
The same holds true for chimneys also. If you look at chimneys, basically the major categories in chimneys in terms of first is motors. We are currently the largest manufacturers of chimney motors in the country, so we already have a very strong base and a customer base for motors. Then the sheet metal fabrication and electronics, that is completely in-house. So again, here, the backward integration which we can offer to our customers is far greater than, let's say, the existing chimney manufacturers. Because I believe none of them are making motors in-house and it accounts for and probably even the electronics is not in-house, so it accounts for a fairly large percentage of the BOM, which we are going to be doing in-house.
Good.
In terms of air coolers, you know, it's a combination of the cooler motor, the submersible pump, and the swing motor, which is totally being done in-house, including the plastic molding. So that's an inherent advantage which we have in terms of our backward integration as compared to competition. And we are of course already leveraging our existing business, you know, with most of these customers because we have a fairly long-term business relations with most of the customers who are in the either chimney, for example, Faber is there, we've been supplying motors for a very long time, or oil-filled radiator heaters and air coolers. So I believe this gives us a distinct advantage of even getting into a competitive market and creating a space for ourselves. I hope it answers your question.
Got it.
Yeah, back to you.
So, just to understand this better, having the prints and motors in-house, that of course gives us a lead time advantage, but I believe that would also help us in terms of the cost competitiveness. So if you can share more on that, how much more competitive are we becoming cost-wise, by having these things in-house compared to other players who do not have it in-house?
So, of course it will depend a little bit from product category to category. For example, in terms of OFR, since there is, we see that we are easily about 6%-8% more competitive than imports for a totally locally made OFR heater. Chimney again based on, based on, the current, BOM and, the current price valuation and, the way which we have, got in, I think we are again, at least minimum 5% cheaper than the competition.
Air cooler is a category we are currently working on. I mean, we have not started in the sense that, the samples are not out, so I don't have a number right now, but maybe in a couple of months, maybe by the next call, we can give you an update on that also. But, chimney, currently we are in the sample, you know, giving, the final samples for evaluation and then start up production, and the Bhiwandi, factory goes online.
Fair enough. And sir, this you answered me for the new products, but if I take the existing set of products for lighting, for example, where I believe in a very short span of time we have been able to add six new customers. So if you can explain how were we able to enter those players, what did we give them better compared to their existing suppliers?
Okay. So see, in lighting, you know, we have been in the lighting space for close to about 22 or 23 years now. So we have a very long track record as a lighting company. Of course, we were bound by the exclusivity agreement with Signify. So, you know, over these last so many years, there have been a lot of these companies who've been approaching us for lighting, but because of our agreement, we were not able to service them.
Right.
Now that that agreement no longer there, I mean, it, it's been not just very simple, but yes, we, we worked on it. We were always integrated in terms of lighting, so we were competitive, but we didn't have the scale to match, you know, the other lighting players, so we, we worked on that. We, we enjoy a very good reputation in the market as a very premium quality supplier. So we're at similar prices, you know, we have been able to attract some of the customers from our competition.
And now, like I said, with the addition of a new resource who has a very proven track record of dealing with multiple customers who in the lighting business, it has helped further, you know, attract these customers. So some of them have been existing customers, some are new additions, but with our track record of, you know, supplying to Philips for two decades plus, I think that's made it a little easier to attract these customers as a quality supplier of lighting products.
Fair enough. Just one last question before I get it back to the queue. For these six new lighting customers that we have added, I believe we have added maybe four of them, and two are to be added by year-end. So in FY 2027, what sort of turnover can we expect from these six customers in lighting?
So, currently we have already onboarded five customers, that means where the billing is already started. And we expect maybe to add another one or two customers. We don't want to spread ourselves too thin also with a very large number of customers. We want to focus on, you know, quality customers whom we can service and gain a fairly large business share, you know, in terms of volume. That's our overall strategy going forward. In terms of revenues, like we said, we are currently almost on a 50/50 basis in terms of the revenues. While we expect that the Signify lighting revenue will be at the current stage, I don't see it going up significantly.
Mm-hmm.
I think the new customers, so we are looking at about the revenue of in terms of lighting, from the new customers to the tune of around maybe INR 150 crores-INR 170 crores in the coming fiscal.
Okay. So why I was asking this is because in the previous phone call, we said, we said that these six new customers can do at least 20%-30% premium revenue of what Signify used to do monthly for us, which was INR 17 crore-INR 20 crore. So that number comes to-
What we said, our monthly run rate by probably the year-end will be on par with what we were doing with Signify, let's say, prior to the Litanium deal and the revenues declining. So we are almost there at those levels. So we are almost revenues, which we used to do with Signify. And now with the addition and growing of these new customers, next year, the revenue from them will continue to grow.
Got it. That would be all. I'll get back in the queue. Thank you.
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you, sir. Next question comes from the line of Ananya Nichani from Thinqwise Wealth Managers LLP. Please go ahead, ma'am.
Am I audible?
Yes, ma'am.
Yes, you are.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. So I wanted to inquire about your gross margins. They are about 40 basis points lower this quarter as well. You've mentioned because of raw material pricing and some repricing with customers. So can you elaborate on that? And how do we look at gross margins going forward? What would be like the steady state basis, like, if there's a new normal, something on that? Yeah, that's my question.
Sure. So like, you know, we pointed out in our opening remarks that, you know, our key raw materials, especially on the metal side, so steel, copper, and aluminum, have seen a fairly sharp increase. If you follow the metal pricing market, most of these are almost trading at all-time high levels. So, you know, the impact of this increase, which will be repriced subsequently in the next quarter, has been, you know, borne by us in the current quarter. So depending on our contracts, some of them are on a monthly basis, some of them are on a quarterly basis. So wherever it was monthly, it has been repriced already. Wherever it was quarterly, will be done in Q4 or in the current quarter of the year where we are.
So I mean, as a temporary, you know, time period, there has been an impact on account of these increase in our end prices. So therefore, therefore, our gross margins have been slightly impacted, like you pointed out, to, I think to the extent of 40, 40 basis points.
So in Q4 as well, we'll see a compressed margin for this situation?
It's very difficult to, to kind of, you know, predict how RM prices behave. I'm sure you will appreciate that probably no one in the world can tell you where the metal prices will settle. But assuming they stay steady, then there should not be an impact, because, then the repricing will nullify any of that. But assuming they continue to keep on surging, there could be a further impact because, what happens is last quarter or last month average is used in this quarter or this month.
And I mean, just to also give you all three sides of the coin, if there is a decline from these levels, then there could be an added advantage. So, very difficult to predict where, you know, the metal prices will go. But I've explained to you broadly in terms of, you know, direction, whichever way they go, what the impact will be.
Got it. Got it. Thank you .
Thank you, ma'am. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any questions, please press star and one on your telephone keypad. I repeat, if you have any questions, please press star and one on your telephone keypad. The next question is from the line of Mr. Kunal Mehta from Sunidhi Securities. Please go ahead, sir.
Yeah, hi, very good evening, sir. My first question will be, I think in last year we saw that, there was heavy price erosion in the lighting segment. So what is the current scenario there now that we have about five, six customers onboarded? So are we able to get a competitive price or a better price, or it's still the scenario has been same?
So in terms of lighting, I mean, just like now Akash was explaining, commodity prices has been at all-time high. The dollar, you know, is pretty strong. And in terms of electronics, again, you know, the chip availability is becoming a little bit of a problem, basically driven by a lot of the chip volumes are being now diverted to AI-related chips, EV-related chips. So lighting is coming at the little bottom of the line in terms of the, you know, the, how the, the capacity is allotted, allocated by the chip manufacturer. So lighting is, lighting and generally across all consumer electronic products are seeing a price increase. I think, price erosion in lighting business is going to stop. The prices are going to head north for sure. It's already started happening from this month.
If not this month, maximum, I think next month, I expect at least a 4%-5% kind of price increase in across the board in lighting products. Some might be a little more, but, bottom line, I think we will be seeing now prices going north in lighting and other consumer electronic businesses.
Okay. And, so, I mean, every quarter, since almost Q1, so we have been, you know, constantly, downgrading our gross margin guidance for the year, from about 6%-6.5% to 5.5%-6%, now about 5.3%-5.8%. So is it only because of the raw material, or there are anything other than that also that is coming up? Is it capitalization or is it something else that is affecting the gross margins?
Well, look, it's. So, just, one quick clarification. It's not gross margin. I think you're referring to EBITDA margins.
I'm sorry, sorry. I'm sorry, EBITDA, EBITDA margin. Sorry, yeah.
Quick clarification. Look, it's probably like you pointed out, you pointed out a whole host of factors. It's probably a combination of that. It's never really one single factor that plays out. So on the lighting side, like we pointed out, you know, the prices of electronics and weak rupee is impacting us because there are certain, you know, imported content in our lighting business. On the appliances side and the motor side, it is the price of, you know, metals, you know, that is very, very difficult to predict. So our, like I said, our job, we feel is, you know, to give you a realistic picture of the business as we see it.
And in that very spirit, you know, we are sharing the situation as is. We agree that there is a you know slight you know compression that we have seen and that we do expect in our EBITDA from what we have forecast. Our job is to you know lay it out to you as we see it clearly.
Okay. And so, the impact of BIS, when do we see it to take effect, you know? I mean, in September of this year, or May, is it actual effect will come in the March of next year?
Yes, in a lot of product categories it is already implemented, so you are seeing the impact. You know, if you let's say, for example, if I take the chimney business, there's a lot of local manufacturing going on. Chimney manufacture, motor manufacturing business has done extremely well last year. So these are already happening in terms of OFR also. I mean, most of the appliances are now covered by BIS. For us, the next big growth boom, which could happen because of BIS, would be our FHP, fractional horsepower motor business. So that is still not you know 100% under BIS. So I think with those motors coming under BIS, there would be growth opening up of you know local manufacturing.
Let's say, washing machine motors, I think would be a big category where the current local manufacturing, I'd assume, is maybe at between 5%-8%, maybe max 10%. Air conditioning, ODU motors, like the BLDC motors, where right now I think more than 80%-90% of the motors are imported. So I think that category will see a big impact if BIS comes in. I think it's slated to come in for August or September of 2026. In terms of, you know, lighting, it's already controlled by the R number. Most of our appliances are under BIS. And as far as the Chinese companies getting BIS, it's still a little difficult.
You know, although a little bit, getting visa and things have become a little easier, but still there are certain constraints there. So for us, the next, big mover is going to be, you know, the motor business, once it comes completely under BIS.
Sure. Yeah, just on the FHP motor, I think this year we, in this quarter, we saw about an 18% decline, YoY. And, most of it was due to, you know, mixer grinder volumes declining and even the, synchronous AC motors. So, do you, do you see this, that because of BIS, a lot of, you know, companies, you know, might have some kind of a captive FHP motor plant? How, how is our market share turning up because of this?
Yeah, of course. Our third-party sales for motors has gone down, whereas there has been intercompany business, mixer grinders, that kind of, those numbers have gone up, but of course, we reported as a final mixer grinder sale. But in general, you know, small appliances, I think this Diwali was a little tepid, and a couple of months post-Diwali, the demand of mixer grinder motors, chimney motors, was fairly low. It's now picking up. I think a lot of you know, the bigger appliances and automotive industry did exceedingly well during Diwali. So small appliances in general and chimneys had a fairly tepid Diwali. Again now looking up, and I think again, the motor numbers should go up.
Like I said, for example, we'd also got into the cooler motors, but last year coolers was... coolers and air conditioners, both, you know, in terms of the season, was fairly bad because of unusually long rainy season. So there was a lot of inventory carryover. So actual manufacturing of air conditioners and coolers has now, you know, now just taken off. Normally, it starts in October, but this time I think it got delayed by a couple of months. So those categories of motors which we're expecting to pick up during, you know, the October, November, December period, really did not happen. So that's another reason why FHP motors were a little down. Our captive has gone up in terms of mixer grinders for us.
Okay.
And some a little bit in the TPW segment also. Now, we consolidated our motor manufacturing, the complete fan manufacturing in Ghaziabad plant. Those numbers are doing well, but it's being reflected in the overall fan business for us, you know, as a complete product.
Okay. So now, can you see the Bhiwandi plant start in it from April, or will there be some kind of a lag, you know, where you'll be shifting the chimney production from Ghaziabad to Bhiwandi, and, you know, a new facility comes up? So will there be some kind of a, you know, shifting lag, where you'll be, you know, shifting some operations, or will it be a smooth transition?
We will be shifting our OFR business to Bhiwandi from-
Okay, okay.
Yeah. No, chimneys also happening in Bhiwandi, but it'll probably be the commercial production will commence there. Our date of commercial billing is, we've given as May 26th.
Okay.
Prior to that, you know, there are a lot of regulations which have to be completed, you know, in terms of the BIS approval of the plant. You know, the manufacturing line has to be BIS approved, so we need to do the preliminary sample build over there, then submit it for approval, then get the line approved. So this takes about two, two months, time, you know. So we-
Mm-hmm.
Expect our internal trials to start somewhere in March of 2026, and commercial production will go online May 26th .
Okay. And so just one last question. How are we on the working capital, and how is the progress there? Are we lagging from our... Because the net working capital days are, has increased to 60-almost 68 days, you know, from 59. So, are we maybe, is there going to be a delay in execution of, you know, improving on the inventory and the payable days, or are we on track?
We are okay in terms of payable days. I think we are doing quite-
Okay.
Quite well. Nicely pointed out again in our opening remarks that, you know, there were certain, you know, abnormal, inventory buildup that we have seen, you know, during, during the quarter, towards the end of the quarter. We expect that to normalize within this, quarter itself. So hopefully, as at the end of March, we should be around the 50-day target that, that we have, set out on a net basis, of course.
Okay, sir. I'll fall back in the queue . Thank you so much. Bye.
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any questions, please press star and one on your telephone keypad. I'll repeat. If you have any questions, please press star and one on your telephone keypad. We have a follow-up question from Mr. Rahil Dasani from MAPL. Please go ahead, sir.
Yeah. Sir, this INR 150 crore-INR 170 crore target that we have from the new lighting customers for next year, is this dependent on prices improving last year, like we said in the previous answer, or based on the prices as they are today?
So the value which I have given to you is based on existing prices, but in terms of the price increase, which I believe, I mean, which I said that I expect around, let's say, a 5% increase, I think this will be a quote. And I say this because I see some of it has already happened in this month.
Mm-hmm.
Max, you know, China is going for the Chinese New Year, so we will be getting new prices from China also once they come back to work, and that will also-
Sure.
-determine how the lighting business moves. But in general, I expect a price increase across lighting co, categories. And my current number, which I told you about, INR 150-INR 170 kind of range, that is on the existing prices.
Perfect. Got it. Sir, it could go up, yeah. Yeah, sorry.
No, no, that's... What I'm saying is that those, the numbers which I gave you are on the current existing prices. That means what was operated, what was prevailing i n the month of January. And, like I said, the price increase, which I expect minimum around 5%, that could further push those numbers up.
Perfect. Got it. And, sir, just a broader question to understand the customer stickiness in this industry: Why did we lose Signify after such a long-term relationship, that too an exclusive relationship?
Why did we lose? So I could give you my... So, A, let me answer that question. A, we have not lost Signify as a customer. They-
Part of that business was lost.
Yeah. So, Signify, not so they continue to buy lighting business, lights, light fittings from us.
Mm-hmm.
And, they, we are partnering with them for their, the fan business and, you know, that's what, that business is doing extremely well for both of us. So we are still a strategic supplier for them, and they are a customer for a lot of the new categories which we are looking at to grow their business. Now, as far as, you know, the lighting, part of the business is concerned, where Signify has formed a, you know, collaborative-
Mm-hmm.
-venture with Philips, the lighting business, I mean, I wouldn't attempt to answer the logic behind that. I mean, that's how they see the lighting business, and probably some consolidation, which they wanted to do, of their plants in Baroda, where, you know, the conventional-
Mm-hmm.
Lighting has gone down. But, so, you know, that's something best left to them. But, what I can assure you is that we are still a strategic supplier for them, a priority supplier. And, if I, if I add the fan business, our business with Signify is, combined business with Signify is growing. So whatever we've lost in, lighting-
Mm-hmm.
We've gained in the fan category. So our business with Signify still remains strong and on a good growth trajectory.
Got it. Just to get my numbers clear, I believe you said that, Signify used to be at least INR 19-INR 20 crore in totality for us? And from that monthly, they used to generate INR 20 crore, INR 90 crore, INR 20 crore for us, and from that annually maybe INR 40-INR 50 crore is the business that we lost, right?
Correct. So we used to be, let's say, at the INR 240-INR 250 range.
Yes.
That's about INR 240 for the lighting business. Currently we are at about maybe the INR 100-INR 120 kind of range in the lighting business.
Okay.
It could be a little plus, up and down, it depends. So, so what Signify has moved from us is the consumer part of the business. Part of it-
Mm.
Not entirely, we still work with them.
Mm.
The professional business remains in. So if the professional business does well, you know, then that number could further go up. But given the current scenario, that's what the business was around INR 240 crores-INR 250 crores in the last couple of years, and now currently it's about, looking at a run rate of about INR 120 crore-INR 140 crores with them.
Perfect. Perfect. So now coming to the chimney ovens and the OFR heaters, I believe the approval for that is going on at the Ghaziabad plant, and the product will be shifted to Bhiwandi once the plant is ready. So have we planned a number or expected number of customers approved us to achieve our INR 140 crore-INR 150 crores target in FY 2027 from the Bhiwandi plant?
So, two things, one, OFR is going to be a shifting of the business because it's already operational in Ghaziabad for the last two years.
Yeah.
And it's based on... So we've already planned the entire shifting in terms of the assets and of course, there's an approval process, so that's been planned. Based on what we did this year and the forecast for the current year, where we are again increasing our capacity, like I mentioned, that we are further increasing our capacity so that, you know, we kind of be the dominant player and not let too many people in. I believe we should be able to hit the numbers between OFRs and chimneys. The oven-
Got it.
is not a very big business right now because in terms of oven, there are slight shifts in the consumption pattern. And by that, I mean, you know, in terms of oven, now you're seeing the air fryer is becoming very popular, and there's a new product in the market. It's a combination of the air fryer and the oven, which is again catching steam. So what we are looking in this cooking category is to start with the oven, and then maybe a couple of quarters down, we could look at adding the air fryer business in our plant, which will further increase those numbers. So we are in active discussions with a couple of key customers for the air fryer business as well. So with these two put together, I...
Yeah.
Yeah, new products for Bhiwandi. So with these two, but I think, between OFR and chimney, we should be able to hit the guidance which we have given in terms of the turnover for Bhiwandi in 2026-2027.
Got it. So just to summarize it a bit, only two products, OFR and the chimney, can do INR 70 crore-75 crore each in FY 2027, and this is why we are launching chimney in H2 FY 2027.
Please read it as combined between OFR and chimney, we should-
Of course
... be able to do INR 170 crore. And, the air coolers and the oven business, which we will start, should, and there is, there's always a lag by the time you launch and up, you know, you show the product and the approval process happens. So we are fairly confident that these two products alone should give us about INR 170 crore kind of business outlook.
Got it. No, so why I was asking for the split is because I believe we are to launch chimneys only in H2 FY 20 26, so that's only two quarters of numbers to generate a target. That's why I was asking for the split, that we are planning for.
Currently, not in a position to give you an exact split. Maybe-
No problems. And so at 25%-30% utilization in FY 2027 from Bhiwandi, what sort of EBITDA margins can we achieve there?
Look, we've mentioned that steady state, of course, will be, say, 7%+. But, obviously, initially it will be much lower than that because of, you know, only part utilization of the plant. What we would ask is, you know, once the plant is up and ready, we'll have a better idea to give you, you know, some sense of, you know, what, what in totality for the year we can expect. So just, just bear with us for another quarter.
Okay.
We are fairly close to that.
Yes, got it. And so how much additional capacity will this shift from Ghaziabad to Bhiwandi leave in Ghaziabad? And will that excess Ghaziabad capacity will get utilized immediately, or else we will also see a drop in margins in that unit because of a lower utilization like we have seen in the past?
So, we already have a plan in place. Of course, this is going to be a fairly large revenue, which will be moving out of Ghaziabad.
Yeah.
So we are looking at two product categories to offset, and then further grow. One, I mentioned that the fan business overall is doing fairly well for us.
Mm.
We are looking to grow that business. This year, I think we'll have 100% growth over last year.
Mm.
So we are looking at the minimum 50% kind of growth or maybe a little more for the fan business. The second category is, in terms of the smaller appliance business, there are certain, there is especially the mixer grinder category, we are looking to start operations out of our Ghaziabad plant also, as well.
Mm.
The logic behind this is that, you know, in terms of mixer grinder has a fairly large market share, and it's a probably around-the-clock kind of business. All our motors are being made in Ghaziabad for the mixer grinders. We believe making the mixer grinder in Ghaziabad will give us certain logistics and overall increase the overall efficiency, so we could, you know, offer at a better price. Secondly, of course, you know, Baddi now does not have any excise benefit as such, and now in the last couple of years, customers are also not very keen to buy out of Baddi, because most of the sales happens in the bigger cities and in the metros.
So the market is here, so, so we want to move part of our mixer grinder business from Baddi, and we believe in Ghaziabad, we can give a better value proposition, and we can further add and grow our mixer grinder business. Given the fact that motor is going to become in-house, so of course it saves on certain logistics and packaging costs, et cetera, et cetera.
Yeah.
So these are the two categories we are looking at. Of course, along with certain FHP motors, like coolers and chimneys, et cetera, to not only offset the shift in revenue, but further grow the business.
But sir, if we ship the mixer and grinder from Baddi to Ghaziabad, that will again lead to a lower utilization in Baddi, and hence we are again, we will get what we call as a, reverse operating leverage, operating deleverage.
So, the complete mixer grinder operations will not be shifted out Baddi. It's selected customers where the market share is not very large that will affect the Baddi business. But we believe-
Mm-hmm.
-that once we start seeing mixer grinders in our Ghaziabad plant, we will be able to attract newer customers, more customers, who are currently not buying the complete product from us. They might be buying motors from us and they might be, you know, getting, some of them,
Mm-hmm.
Are making buying from us and offering to brands. So we believe that we will be able to corner a portion of that business also.
Got it. So I guess my point is that will we be able to continue with our 6%-6.5% EBITDA margin at our existing two plants, if I forget about the Bhiwandi new unit, where, of course, you will see a dip in margins and profitability on the consolidated level? That's what I'm trying to understand.
The point is, well taken, sir. Like I said, so on the existing business, we are reasonably confident, but, on the Bhiwandi business, like I said, just allow us, you know, a quarter or two till the plant actually starts to give you an idea of what the EBITDA for Bhiwandi will be, and therefore what we consolidated at the company.
Got it, got it. And sir, how much is the trimmer?
Sir, sorry, sir. Sorry to interrupt.
Sorry, sorry, sorry.
I request you to join the queue, sir. Thank you. The next we have a question from Mr. Samrat Ashok from Janak Merchant Securities. Please go ahead, sir.
So my question was on the motor division. Considering we have a lot of captive needs and there is a large opportunity to supply to the in-house appliance manufacturing opportunity, which is arising out-
Hello? Hello.
Please go ahead, Samrat.
Hello, am I audible?
Yes, sir, you're audible.
Yeah, I'm sorry, there was a disturbance in between, so may I ask you to repeat your question, please?
Yeah. Sir, it was related to the motor business. Considering we have a higher captive requirement and we sell motors to other customers also, and because of the BIS regulation, we have, there are new opportunities opening up. So are you going to expand your motor capacity further? And it is a better margin product also for us. So any plan-
That's right
... to expand capacity further?
Yeah, we are looking to expand our motor capacities. I mean, like I mentioned, we've already set up a line for cooler motors. However, this particular season, the cooler industry started a little bit late because of the extra excess inventory built up within the pipeline because of last year's fairly dismal cooler. So we are getting into the cooler business and cooler pumps. We are getting into the BLDC chimney segment, and we are looking at two more segments. One is the washing machine segment and the AC, ODU, IDU BLDC motors for further expansion. Out of this, these two segments, washing machine motors are undergoing trials at our end, so we are building a line and getting our motors approved.
We believe that once BIS comes into play in washing machine motors, a lot of local buying will start. So, there, our existing infrastructure is aligned to make these motors. But however, BLDC, AC ODU and IDU motors, we are a little bit of a wait and watch because our existing infrastructure is not exactly suited to make this motor. It's a fairly high, large investment required to make this motor at the same cost level, let's say, which, at which China is operating. So there we are at wait, at a wait and watch, but these other three categories, we are fairly confident. Two, we are, of course, equipped to start. The third one, we are getting our motors approved, and as and when, the BIS kicks in, I mean, we will be in a position to start that as well.
So from the past things that are from the DRHP, we are almost like 10 lakh capacity of motors per month. How much we'll be expanding to?
So, so are you, are you talking about expansion or utilization in terms of overall effect?
No, expansion.
I think, so, sir, the 10 lakh, you know, number that you're probably referring to, number one, in overall, you know, kind of number, comprises of multiple, you know, types of, motors, you know.
Yeah.
Let me get back to you offline on that, because-
Okay.
We are not seeing expansion on all categories of motors. Like, like Sanjeevji mentioned, there are only three categories of motors where, you know, expansion was being undertaken or considered. So, the numbers are not going to be very large, but we'll, we'll just get back to you offline with, with that number.
Thank you. That's all from my side.
Thank you, sir. The next question comes from Mr. Kunal Mehta from Sunidhi Securities. It's a follow-up question. Please go ahead with your question, sir.
Yeah, hi. I just have one question. It's on this personal care segment. In Q1 also, we saw a dip in the volume and even in Q3, because Q2 was the festive season, so there was quite a lot of volume. But is there some kind of lower volume scenario that we are seeing in, you know, personal care and, you know, trimmers and hair straighteners and hair dryers? So, I mean, is the focus more on, you know, medium appliances and the kitchen and home care and personal care is kind of, you know, we are not having much focus to expand our customer base there?
No, no, it's not, it's not like we don't have focus, but, these are... Look, the way we see it is these are, you know, vagaries of the market. Consumption has been a little bit erratic. This is more an urban discretionary, you know, kind of category. I mean, much more urban, less, less rural. So sometimes, you know, I mean, the, the way a urban customer allocates wallet share, you know, automotive prices have come down, so the wallet share gets allocated there. So you see temporary kind of mismatch. It's very difficult for us to give you an exact precise reasoning as to why it's gone down. But, rest assured, it is not due to lack of focus. We are working strongly with our customers to kind of, you know, drive this growth as well.
Have you added any customers in the personal care segment, you think, in the last year?
No, we have not been able to add any new customers, but we have been able to secure three new subcategories of, you know, projects within personal care. So we should see some growth being injected once those projects go live in about maybe anywhere between, you know, I mean, roughly six months time.
Okay. And so now do we see this order from the U.S., because of the tariff situation, you know, again, reversing, do we see that the order from the U.S. is soon coming in in FY 2027?
We are very hopeful-
For the, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, we're very hopeful of that. I mean, this is just a very, very recent development, just about maybe less than a week.
Yeah.
A week ago. So teams are, you know, on the ground, you know, already, we are, we are all in touch with, with, with our customers. But we don't have an exact, you know, answer for you yet. I mean, I don't want to jump the gun and tell you that it is done. Probably, I mean, we are very hopeful that it's going to be done, but till it's done, I don't want to give you any, any, you know, premature-
Okay.
-indication.
Okay. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you so much, sir. There are no further questions, sir. Now, I hand over the floor to the management for the closing comments.
Hi, this is Kamal Sethia. Thank you for sparing your time and giving us an opportunity to address your questions. I hope we have answered them well, and looking forward to next call to give you more updates on our company's performance. Thank you so much again for your time.
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference for today. Thank you for your participation and for using Sunidhi's conference call services. You may disconnect your lines now. Thank you, and have a pleasant evening.