Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Engineers India Limited Q4 and FY25 earnings conference call, hosted by DAM Capital Advisors. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Bhumika Nair from DAM Capital Advisors Limited. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.
Thanks, Manav. Good afternoon, everyone, and a very warm welcome to Engineers India Limited Q4 FY 25 earnings call, hosted by DAM Capital Advisors. On the call today, we have the management represented by Mr. Sanjay Jindal, Director of Finance; Mr. Suvendu Padhi, Company Secretary and Investor Relations; Mr. R. P. Bhadra, Executive Director, F&E and Investor Relations; Mr. Amanpreet Singh Chopra, Senior General Manager, CNMD Office and Investor Relations; Mr. Vivek Midha, Senior General Manager, Marketing, Business Development and Investor Relations; and Ms. Neha Narula, Senior Manager, Company Secretary and Investor Relations. At this point, I'll hand over the call to Mr. Jindal for his initial remarks, post which we'll open the floor for Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Bhumika. Good evening, everybody, and a warm welcome to all the investors for this meeting. We have declared our annual results for the financial year 2024-2025 on 29th May 2025. Company's order book position has reached its all-time high in financial year 2024-2025 and stands at INR 11,700 crores as of 31st March 2025, as compared to INR 7,823 crores as of 31st March 2024. Order inflow in EIL has increased significantly to INR 8,214 crores in financial year 2024-2025, as compared to the order inflow of INR 3,400 crores in financial year 2023-2024. In the standalone information, in the fourth quarter, the company has achieved a turnover of INR 991 crores in comparison to INR 750 crores in quarter ended 31st December 2024, showing an increase of around 32% on quarter-on-quarter basis, with turnover from consultancy and engineering segment amounting to INR 542 crores and INR 449 crores in franchise segment.
During the fourth quarter, ended 31st March 2025, the company recorded profit before tax of INR 325 crores and profit after tax of INR 243 crores in comparison to INR 118 crores and INR 88 crores, respectively, during the previous quarter three of financial year 2024-2025, showing an increase of 175% increase in PBT and 176% increase in PAT. With respect to financial performance for the year ended 31st March 2025, on standalone basis, the company achieved the highest PAT in the last ten years. The profit after tax increased by 30% to the INR 465 crores in comparison to profit of INR 357 crores in the last year. Operating margin during the financial year 2024-2025 increased to 15%, as against 8% in financial year 2023-2024. EBITDA of the company as of 31st March 2025 stood at INR 659 crores in comparison to INR 508 crores as of 31st March 2025. EBITDA have increased from 15% to 21%.
During the year ended 31 March 2025, the company has registered turnover of INR 3,028 crores. The turnover from consultancy and engineering segment stood at INR 1,678 crores, and from franchise segment was INR 1,350 crores. During the year 2024-2025, the foreign turnover increased by 32% to INR 371 crores, as against INR 281 crores in financial year 2023-2024, mainly from UAE, Nigeria, and Kuwait region. The company is maintaining a very healthy earnings per share of INR 8.28. Last year, it was INR 6.35. On consolidated basis, the company earned a profit of INR 580 crores for the year ended 31 March 2025 in comparison to INR 445 crores earned during the last financial year 2023-2024. Therefore, there is an increase of 130% in the consolidated profit on year-on-year basis. EIL share of profit in RFCL has increased to INR 108 crores in financial year 2024-2025 from INR 85 crores in financial year 2023-2024.
That is an increase in margin of 27%. The profit of EIL subsidiaries have increased to INR 20 crores in financial year 2024-2025, as against INR 12 crores in financial year 2023-2024. This is some of the highlights from our side. Thank you, Bhumika.
Sir, should we begin the question and answer session?
Yes.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We have our first question from the line of Manish Ostwal from Nirmal Bang Securities. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Thank you for the opportunity and very good set of numbers for the quarter and for the full year. I have a couple of questions. The first on one of the slides where we mentioned that we foray into the defense space in 2025. What capability have we built there and what kind of business can we see for Engineers India from 2026 or over the medium term in that category, in that segment?
With respect to the defense per se, you should know that you are aware that we are an oil and gas company. We have extensive experience of core hydrocarbon, which is an equally complex area. So skill-wise, we have no issues with us. We had tied up with last year, we had tied up with Mishra Dhatu Nigam Limited, and we had signed an MoU with them. Thereafter, we have got an assignment from them also. We are executing one of the T&T projects for them. We are eyeing for more projects in this segment, including we are exploring the private segment wherever this opportunity comes. We will be tying up with them. Experience-wise, we are ready for this because engineering is our core experience, and we are fully capable of handling any of this assignment.
This is one of the segments which we are keeping as a potential segment for expanding our business horizon.
Can we secure some orders in current financial year, sir?
We will try. This financial year has started. We will be targeting a few of the projects. That will be something we'll do at the end of this and the last quarter.
Yeah. Now, coming to the current financial performance, last year, we have an INR 7,800 crores order book, and the current year, we saw an order inflow of almost INR 8,200 crores, and we delivered a revenue of INR 3,200 crores for the year. The margin of both the segments has improved, consultancy as well as turnkey projects. The question is, one is based on and compared to the last year order book, we have a 38% execution of the opening order book. Given by the trend of the order book mix, what kind of execution can we anticipate for the current financial year and how should we think of the margin in both the categories like consultancy as well as turnkey? Because even turnkey project margins during the quarter and the full year is much higher than what we guided to the market.
Can you comment on the one is the growth aspect? The second is the profitability trajectory based on the current order book that we have.
Along the margin. We have a constraint is that order book. You must have seen that we have currently booked an order book of INR 11,717 crores. These are the new orders which have recently booked. There was a little bit decline in the turnover because many of the old projects which were under execution have been on the closure of it because these were the mega projects which have a typical timeline of three to four years. You must have seen in the last year we have got the two mega petrochemical complexes project and many other projects which are getting initiated. Again, the time cycle is three to four years. The billing would start in this financial year. Naturally, we'll be start earning and adding to the revenue and turnover would increase in that regard.
With respect to the profit margins, we are going to maintain the similar profit margins with it. We are quite capable. Mr. Sundelwal.
As regard margin is concerned, our margins in the consultancy segment and LSTK segments are intact. Earlier, we had given the range of 5%-7% in the LSTK, and in the consultancy business, it is 25%. This year, we could achieve the higher margin because of some change order we could finalize with our clients for which expenses have been already booked to our profit and loss comp. In a company like EIL, where revenue comes from the implementation of project, change order is also an important part, and it depends when the change orders are finalized. A lot of change orders have been finalized in this function.
Lastly, sir, order inflow, against the INR 8,200 crores of order inflow, what kind of order inflow can we anticipate given the outlook of various segments in your presentation? Whether we can sustain the current year order inflow or we can do better for the current financial year?
We can persist to sustain the existing order value. We will order inflow what we have got in this financial year, we'll try to sustain the same and we'll further grow from the existing order book. Sorry, order inflow. For your information, as of today, we have already booked INR 1,300 crores worth of business in the second year, in the second month itself. We are working towards it, and hopefully, our performance will be better than the past month.
Okay, sir. Thank you very much and all the best for the current financial year. Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good afternoon, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Am I clear? Yeah. Hi. Very good.
Yeah. Sir, my question is on note number four and note number five. I think you have mentioned that there's an impact of INR 112 crores for the variable consideration, right? And note number five says that we have also retained INR 82 crores right back. My question is, for the quarter, is it fair to say that the total impact on the profit is around INR 112 plus INR 82 crores, which is closer to around INR 214 crores? Sorry, INR 194 crores?
Yeah. Look, INR 112 crores is our change order we could finalize with our clients. And against this change order, we have already incurred expenditure since we have already incurred the expenses. Therefore, it was a part of turnover; it was considered as part of turnover. Like I have already told, in the company like EIL, where projects are implemented and some of the work are always done which is beyond the scope for which change order is always finalized by the client. Generally, it takes the time. Expenditure is incurred first, then the revenue comes. Under this scenario, we have got two major change orders for which change order value is INR 112 crores. INR 82 crores reversal pertains to our guarantee and warranty. You know, whenever project is built, there is also provision for the guarantee and warranty of the project.
We keep continue to make provisions of the guarantee and warranty. Whenever our defect clarity period is over and there is no guarantee and warranty balance, that provision is reversed. This is the accounting procedure. There is a reversal of INR 82 crores for which we have got the client permission to reverse. There is no guarantee and warranty on this account.
Understood, sir. My related question is, sir, in the note number four, you are saying profit from operations for the quarter and the year. Does it mean that this is an impact on the profit after tax or profit before tax?
Profit for operation is always profit before tax. It is excluding the other income.
There's a taxation impact, right, which I need to consider before adjusting?
It is excluding the other income.
Okay. Understood, sir. My second question is on the consultancy. I think we had a very fabulous year last year, which was INR 4,000 crores in the entire fiscal, which I think was one of the best years in terms of the INR 4,500 crores, I think, which is one of the best in the last several years. Do you think it is possible to replicate this in FY 2026, especially on consultancy order inflow, given what we see in the macro? Or do you think there is some dip in this order inflow in FY 2026?
With respect to the order inflow and the consultancy segment, it should be in the same range. We should try that because we keep on bidding for multiple projects altogether, which are for consultancy. We already have projects like Paradeep and all, which are under execution. Their phase two is expected to come towards the end of this financial year. We will be able to, which is a major component of the project. These are the awarded projects. Another is we are bidding for a number of projects. We hope that the consultancy would also be a significant contribution in the total order book and the total order inflow.
Sir, of course, sir, how do you think about the international order pipeline in the consultancy? How is it shaping up compared to last year?
Like what you have seen last year, that it is INR 1,000 crores. We are working towards it because earlier, we were strengthening our Abu Dhabi office, which has done quite well. It is improving its performance. We are targeting the large value projects. Hopefully, this order inflow will further increase or it will remain in the same place. In fact, we already have in this financial year, we already booked INR 380 crores worth of projects from the Middle East, from Kuwait. You can see that we are moving ahead with the same pace. We can reach to the target, what has been said last year.
Good to hear and good to see that momentum. Thank you and best of luck, sir. Thank you. Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Nidisha from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yes. Thank you so much for taking my question. My first question is on the order inflow for turnkey. At Q3, we mentioned that the nine-month order inflow is INR 39 billion. Now for this quarter, we have mentioned that it is INR 36 billion. What is the order inflow for this quarter? Have any orders got canceled or reclassified?
Cancellation. Let me tell you what happened is there was one of the assignments which was awarded to us on a go-ahead basis. Go-ahead basis is a kind of concept. They will give you a letter to proceed with the work and then pending settlement of the order. By the time the year-end closes, a formal award was not received. Okay? That is how we have to, in books, we had to return it. Now it is about to be settled, and then again, it will come back to the order inflow. That is how you must have seen.
Yes. So my understanding then, what is the order inflow for this quarter for Q4, sorry? And then in which quarter and how much adjustment would I have to make for this order that has been placed?
We will get to know, ma'am. We'll get to know about this when this would be settled. The order inflow, as of now, I told you around INR 1,800 crores. Sorry, INR 1,300 crores we have already received, out of which LSTK is around LSTK segment is around INR 800 crores. Out of INR 1,300. The quarter is still going on, so we will have to wait for that.
No, I meant for Q4. For Q4.
Q4 order inflow.
Q4 for turnkey.
Let me check. Q4 order inflow was something around INR 440. Sorry, it was turnover. Let me see. Yeah. You're just checking it. It's not available in hand. We'll share it with you later. Okay? You can get it separately. We'll give it to you.
Okay. Just lastly for this, the order that is delayed, what is the value of that one?
It's around INR 300 something crores. Don't have the exact value with me. Around INR 300 crores. The differential you will see is the same one. It will come back later on.
Got it. Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Majid Ahmad from Pinpoint Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Yes. Thank you for the opportunity, sir. Am I audible, sir?
Yeah.
Yes, sir. Sir, I just want to understand that going forward, what would be the mix for FY 26 and 27, sir, for consulting and turnkey?
Order inflow could remain in the same range. Consultancy would be a little bit more than the LSTK. It always remained in the range of 50%-55%, 55-60% is consultancy and balance is LSTK. We keep the margin healthy in that range itself. Generally, it remains in the same range itself.
Fifty-five to fifty-five in consultancy, and forty-five in the turnkey. Yes. Okay.
That does not mean that we restrict it. We have to get every business. It depends. At the end, what kind of number gets settled depends. There is no hard and fast rule for us. This is the trend generally. This is generally the trend we are talking about.
Okay. This is general trend. Okay.
We prepare for end of year, but this is the final outcome. Trend of final outcome.
Okay. So secondly, what type of CapEx are you looking, sir, for this coming year, FY 2026?
CapEx is routine in nature on the building for the renovations as such. There is no major CapEx in pipeline.
Okay, sir. Going forward, how much is the orders are you bidding for? Any order pipeline that you're bidding for going on?
Many bids keep on going. Those are confidential nature, cannot be disclosed. The end result would come towards the end of the financial year. We'll keep on updating you with respect to the business. I've already updated you that we have secured this much business. We keep on updating in every meeting.
Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. All the very best. Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Hersha from REERA Holdings. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Good afternoon. Congratulations on fantastic numbers. Sir, my question is, now if I look at the order inflows, the last five years, we have clearly seen a very strong uptake in terms of order inflow, almost from INR 1,500 crore in FY 21 to INR 8,000 crore this year. At the same time, when I look at the revenue, last five years, we have almost been stagnant at around INR 3,000, INR 3,200 crore. In some of the previous calls, we have reiterated that there is aspiration to grow to INR 5,000 crore top line or maybe even INR 7,000 crore over the next, say, maybe four, five, six years. I just want to understand in terms of execution, what is going to change in the next five years that we are being optimistic in terms of, say, double-digit kind of growth to grow from INR 3,000 crore to maybe INR 7,000 crore?
What is going to change in terms of execution?
Look, for the last four years, our order book was in the range of INR 7,000-8,000 crore. And whenever a project is awarded to EIL, its turnover goes for three to four years. Suppose I get the project of INR 100, then it comes in the turnover for the three, four years. So therefore, with the INR 7,000-8,000 crore order book, our turnover was flat somewhere in the range of INR 3,000-3,500. Now it is the first time our order book has crossed the barrier of INR 10,000 crore. Now it is INR 11,700 crore. We are sure that we will continue with this kind of order book. Definitely, with this order book, with the project execution, our turnover will continue to rise. We are expecting at least 15%, 15-20% jump in the turnover this year.
Again, this depends upon how the project execution goes.
Okay. Okay. Understood. Sir, out of the INR 11,700 crore order book we have, out of this, how much would be our international order book? Also, how much out of this INR 11,000 crore would be from non-oil and gas segment? We are also looking to enter a lot of new sunrise sectors. As of now, what is the orders from non-oil and gas sector, and how big do you expect these to become over the next three to five years?
See, order book from foreign consultancy is INR 2,000 crore. Around INR 2,000 crore.
Okay. Okay.
Non-oil and gas?
Non-oil is around 30%-35%. Around 30%-35% is from the non-oil and gas segment.
Okay. Around 30 to, and sir, in non-oil and gas, which would be the major contributor to the order book?
Would be the major contributor. You have chemicals. You have non-ferrous metallurgy. You have power. You have clean energy. All those sources, we can get the business.
Okay. Going ahead.
The hydrocarbon and the non-hydrocarbon.
Okay. The non-oil and gas, which is around 30%-35%, will it continue to remain at the same level going ahead, or will that portion of business increase?
That portion may increase because we are quite a bit focusing on the infrastructure. It has been increasing continuously. We see that that is also going to increase.
Okay. And the margins are similar in non-oil and gas?
Yes, sir. The margins are on the basis of the type of bidding we have. It is on consultancy and LSTK. So for the consultancy and LSTK, it would remain in the same range, which has been told to us, so like 24% and 7, 6%-5%-6%, depending on which mode we get the assignment.
Okay. Understood. Thank you so much, sir. That's it for my side.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Kaushal Sharma from Equinox Capital Ventures. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Very good afternoon. Am I audible?
Good afternoon. You are audible.
Yes, sir. My question is on your margin side. If we see your past performance, we are in the range of 27%-28% in the consultancy, and turnkey, we are 3%-6%. Suddenly, we got a jump of around 30% in consultancy and 8% in turnkey. What was the key growth drivers of such a good performance in the margin? Will this margin be sustainable in the future, like two to three years? The second question is on working capital. Our debtor days improved a lot, around INR 400 crores negative in this year for impacting our cash flows. What is the normalized debtor days in our business? How long will it take to realize these debtor days? My third question is on our industry side, sir.
What kind of opportunity are we looking in our industry, like overall market? What categories are we expecting to grow in the next two to three years in our industry?
First of all, let us talk about the margin. As you said, our normal margin is 25% in the consultancy business segment, business segment profit. And LSTK, it is 5%-7%. This time, we could achieve the higher margin because some of the long pending change orders, we could finalize with our clients. With the impact of the change orders, our margins are on the higher side. Definitely, for the future, we are targeting in the normal range of 25% and 5%-7% in LSTK business. As regard your payment cycle, our payment terms with the clients are 30 days only, but we are able to receive within one to two months' time from our client. It is not more than 45 days, generally.
Not more than 45 days, right, sir? Hello?
Yeah?
Not more than 45 days. It is a normal trade cycle, right, sir?
Your voice is not clear.
Kaushal, you're quite muffled.
Yeah. So I'm just saying that 45 days is the normal trade cycle, right, in our business?
Generally, our payment terms are 30 days, and most of the payments we are receiving in 30 days. On an average, it comes to around 40 days.
Forty days. Okay. And sir, if we talk about a little bit on our industry side, like what market opportunities?
40-45 days you can take safely. No issue.
Pardon, sir?
You can take 45 days safely.
No. Yeah. So I got it, sir. My question is on our industry side, like consultancy business and the turnkey business. How much market size currently, and what category are we expecting going forward two to three years down the line?
This is a very big market. Whichever segment you go, it's a big market. Whether we are going in oil and gas, you are going in infrastructure, you are going into the ferrous non-ferrous metallurgy segment. All these are the markets. There is no specific size of the market as such. You can see the investments which are coming in the hydrocarbon segment. You can see the investments coming up in the infrastructure segment. You can see the investments in the steel segment, non-ferrous segment. All these segments, there are a lot of potential, and Government of India is putting a lot of focus and pushing growth in these segments. Actually, whenever there is a growth and new projects will come, we'll also bid, then we get the business. That's the market for us.
Sir, what is our current order book pipeline in our book and our success ratio in that?
Success ratio, you can say around 25%-30%, 35%. Competitive scenario?
Yeah. 30%. 30%. What is the current order pipeline?
We can't tell you the order pipeline. We already told you that the order which we have already received is around INR 1,300 crore as of now, in the past two months. We reached the target of the existing business inflow, which we have received in this year, and we'll be further growing in that segment.
Okay. Sure. Thank you very much for answering the question.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Amit Anwani from PL Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Am I audible?
Hi, yes. Good afternoon.
Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. First of all, congratulations to the whole team for a very good set of numbers. My first question is, sir, on the overseas consultancy, we have done a phenomenal job this year. Roughly about INR 1,000 plus crore order intake. Order book is sitting at about INR 2,800 crore. I think all-time high, if I see past 8, 9, 10 years. You have been talking about setting up office in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Wanted to understand, are we looking higher inflow numbers from overseas market in FY 26, FY 27? By setting up office there, are we going to bid further? What is the addressable market, let's say, in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia? Since a lot of engineering companies are talking big about CAPEX happening in the Kingdom, wanted to understand our outlook in overseas where we have been positive for FY 25.
Are we targeting better numbers for FY 26? What is the addressable market competition win rate? Any idea if you would like to give?
With respect to the international market targeting, our focus to international market has been increasing. This year, it is around 13%. We are targeting towards it. We are trying to increase it to more on this segment. Like the 13%, we will try to cross that 13% segment, 13% of the total order inflow, like to increase that. Accordingly, we are focusing specifically on the Middle East. Middle East, we are strengthening our Middle East office in Abu Dhabi, which is catering to the other terrains like Kuwait, Bahrain, Oman, and other nearby countries. At the same time, we are setting up the Saudi office. The current major contribution has been from the Abu Dhabi office, which has done a wonderful job and increased their business from there. We have improved our categorization in those countries. Because these countries are very systematic in nature. You have to improve.
You have to stay there for a long time. You have to perform. That's how you are upgraded in the categories, and then you're allowed to bid for the large value projects. As of now, with the consistent focus on this, we have been able to go to the larger category projects, and we are continuously bidding for this. We are hopeful that when we are bidding for the larger category projects, if we are successful, then this order value will further grow. With respect to Saudi, Saudi is one of the biggest markets in the Middle East. The maximum CAPEX investment comes from Saudi. There is huge potential for them, and there is a lot of demand for the good engineering companies. However, this will take some time. It is still in the native state. We are setting up the office.
It will take some time to settle down, register yourself, establish that office, and panel yourself with all the companies and manage all the resources. Then you will start getting the business. There is a lead time in getting the business, but it will be very good when it is established and we start running. It will be targeting very good business from them. That is our anticipation. That is the answer for my side.
Sir, what is the win rate and typically, if you're bidding the project in Saudi?
We can't Saudi, we are not working as of now. We are just entering into Saudi.
Okay. Okay. The other Middle East geographies, what is the win rate?
It is quite a good rate. It's very difficult to tell what is the win rate because the number of bids are there. You are there with the we are there as a panel consultant. We have a number of frame agreements going on, in which we have competition with three or four major consultants. So win rate is good. Very difficult to tell the number as such.
Right. So with respect to order inflow prospect, we have been highlighting that we got very good orders from past two financial years, and focus is to have more than INR 5,000 crore annual order intake run rate. Are we sticking to that for FY 26, FY 27?
Oh, yes. Very much.
Okay. Any, sir, orders which you would like to highlight where we are L1 or maybe past 12, 18 months order and order value, if possible for you to highlight in our lenders?
I mean, right now, many of the projects are in the bidding stage. It is very difficult to tell you at this point of time because this is a competition time. Let's hope for the best. We'll keep you updated in the subsequent meetings as soon as the result comes. As of now, for your information, we have INR 1,300 crore worth of business we have booked as of now, as of May. We are keeping the pace up. We'll keep you updated on this in the subsequent meetings.
Yeah. Sir, one clarification on the change order. You said roughly about, I think, INR 128 crore revenue and INR 112 crore for FY 25. What is the change order you talked about? There's one more change order for FY 26 also. What is the value of that change order?
We have talked about the change order, which we have received in the financial year 2024-2025. It is a continuous process because EIL is involved in the execution of mega projects. For the scope of work done, which is not part of scope of work, we get change orders from our clients time to time. In this financial year, we could get the change order of INR 112 crore, which have been accounted in the financial account. Change order increase in the contract value, original awarded value.
That largely flows through to the profits, right?
Largely flows to profit because expenditure has been already incurred by us.
Yeah.
That's why it is mostly it represents the profit portion only in case work has been already executed.
Right. Sir, lastly, on other income, which has been keeping roughly about INR 160 crore from past three years, what is the dividend income from NRL? And your outlook why other income is keeping same? Will it be same for next financial year as well? For this financial year, I would say, FY 26.
In this financial year, we got the dividend of INR 12 crore-INR 13 crore from the NRL. We are expecting the same level of other income in the coming next year.
Understood. Sir, thank you so much. Thank you and all the best. Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Patanjeet Jha, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Thank you for taking my question. In my view, very heartening results. Looks like going back into the former self, where the margins have improved dramatically. Hopefully, the gaining momentum along with your unprecedented order book. My questions are primarily two. One, Aramco seems to have now shown its very keen interest to come to India with a realistic figure of INR 25,000 crore investment with BPCL in Andhra Pradesh and with ONGC in Gujarat, of which the Andhra one is gaining momentum and is at a higher stage of fruition. For us, any refinery within the country, especially with the public sector undertaking, we only think of Engineers India, not because it is a public sector undertaking, but very competent and with a certain degree of monopoly in the segment. What is your take on that? That is the first question.
With respect to these two refineries, we understand that the number is going to be less.
Yes. The likelihood of.
This is likely this is a CAPEX decision that both sides have to agree. We have no comments on that. We can only anticipate that this project should come fast, and we'll have another two opportunities to bid for it. Because nowadays, when you are saying it's a monopoly, there's no monopoly as of now because all these jobs we have done is under stiff competition. There's no advantage of being public sector. We compete and we get the jobs now. We are ready that these are the two big complexes, and there could be a sizable job when they are realized. We will be very much keen in bidding for those two sides to come. Let's hope for the best these times.
Yes. This is my question.
I would like to add to this, we are getting jobs on nomination basis because first, we are technically competitive. Second, we are cost competitive also.
That in fact, you are competent, and that is how you get it. There is nothing to do with the degree of monopoly in terms of competing with other companies. I certainly agree with that. My one more related question in the area of your core competence. In the African continent, our country now has enormous goodwill, be it Guyana, be it Suriname, be it so much so that without naming the current listing. The arrangement that we have, some of these companies, they found atrocious in terms of they found them with the wrong numbers, inflated numbers in order to get their share of loyalty. And to them, especially in the case of Guyana, the company had the audacity to say that it was a total mistake. That ran into several million dollars.
What is it all about the company? We just want to understand that. They're not clear about this question.
In Guyana, they have some arrangement with a multinational company. I'll not name it. They found that their profit-sharing, royalty, all that. They have a fantastic find. There, that company was inflating the numbers of expenditure and stuff like that. That's what I'm trying to say. It ran into hundreds of millions of dollars. If I'm totally mistaken. Anyway, this is to talk of the character and the integrity of the other company. Against that backdrop, when you are an entity of great integrity and our country having such great relations with them, you have already some track and some of the projects going there in Nigeria and in Guyana, if I remember correctly. What is our, because that is the future distinguished as the maximum find.
No, that is my question. They have their own ways of working, but we are very much clear what way we have to work, and our dealings are very crystal clear.
No, no, no. I'm saying that against that backdrop of people of doubtful integrity and our company being so correct and competent.
We have been able to make success in that because, again, Guyana proposed a project which we have got under competition from the other companies, international competition. In Nigeria, again, it was a competition, even though the investor was private, but he had gone for the competition, and that's how we got the assignment. We have been engaged, and we have completed our commitment for the work.
Great. Going forward, what is your take on that? With such a massive fine and with our competence, what is the outlook and what is the outlook of the company?
We have already proven our mettle there. We are working in Nigeria for other clients also, one of the LNG projects which we are doing. This is only on the basis of experience. Another private sector, public Petchem, was coming. We are also involved in that initial stages of work. Similarly, in Guyana also, we'll be targeting the future. They'll be having the future phase of that project and the other projects because now the oil has come. They will further be utilized for processing of it, and the downstream facility would come. Being there, we'll target those projects with our competence and the experience. That's the present outlook.
I see. Great to hear that. We have great hopes that you would have, as a company, a fair share of your work coming from.
Let's hope for the best.
Also, yes. A small question also of the renewables which your CMD talks about with great passion. It is about the tidal energy, the platforms being constructed for the nuclear or the 2G, especially the 2G, what is the progress in Numaligarh refinery?
On the Numaligarh refinery, the commissioning activity has started. As you're aware, this is the first bamboo-based refinery in the country which has been taken from large scale to a commercial scale. That is going on well. On the renewable sites and on the offshore wind sites, the conceptualization has already taken place. We are into the process of making a business case for the clients to take it forward.
Yeah. What is the addressable size of the business? Because on the land side, it's much smaller turbines, and there are companies with huge market cap. I'm told that the oceanic listing is five times bigger than this. If we are there and if it is the beginning of.
You're asking? Yeah, hello.
Size of the market?
Yeah. Exactly. Because the market size is huge, and it's a nascent market that we are trying to enter. And once as EIL, we are aware of the offshore platforms, both process platform and unmanned platforms quite well. Once we enter the market, we're entering a good way. We hope to have a good pie of business in this market as well.
Fabulous. All the very best. We have great hopes for you to perform even better and excellent set of numbers from the expectations to be intact.
Thank you so much.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Sumit Rora from Smartson Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi sir. I would like to ask to you and your entire team. Sir, I'll just keep it very brief. With the order book visibility which you have in hand today and with the robust order flow which you're expecting like last financial year, can we basically say that we can basically expect this 15%-20% revenue growth which you expect for current year to be a recurring phenomena? Can we now basically expect that Engineers India is now basically well on the growth path? That's my first thought, sir. Secondly, sir, the thing is that if revenue is going to grow 15%-20%, our PAT margin has been about 18% the last financial year. Do you think that operating leverage can also kick in because of the fact that revenue growth does kick in?
What is the PAT margin which you basically expect for the current financial year? Lastly, sir, my last question is basically this energy transition which is basically getting momentum around the world and with the green energy not being as lucrative as earlier planned and peak oil being far ahead compared to what it was anticipated in the very short term. What do you think could be the order momentum, particularly from the Middle East because of the fact that you are opening offices in Dubai and Saudi as well, which you have highlighted earlier? Do you actually think that with green energy being stalled, etc., etc., the order momentum on this side of the conventional business can actually accelerate?
Let me tell you first about the order book position. As we have told, earlier our order book was ranging in the INR 8,000 crore. Now it has increased to INR 11,700 crore. Definitely, with the exhibition, our turnover will rise. We will put all efforts to take it increase by increase of 15-20%. Definitely, we are also targeting. However, how much PAT will be there, we cannot tell right now because we have already told our margins in the consultancy segment is around 25% business segment. In the LSTK job, it is 5-7%. Definitely, our bottom line is also going to improve. However, how much, that we cannot expect right now.
Okay. Sir, I mean, I assume that basically what we have reported in the last financial year should at least be kind of where we can build on from, correct? I mean, is that understanding correct?
Yes. Yes, exactly. That would be the.
We will put all our efforts to keep that base.
Okay. Wonderful. Sir, secondly, if you can now basically talk a bit about because a couple of years back, it was so anticipated that peak oil is basically very near and all of it is not very true, right? You will see good growth in the conventional business as well. Do you think that this INR 8,000-8,500 crore order inflow which we got actually can actually accelerate quite sharply from here?
Yes, it is going to be there because you see that many of the companies are again going back to the hydrocarbon or the coal or all that business. Recent trends, you must have seen that companies like many companies, you must have seen. They're going away from the hydrocarbon, green hydrogen and all these things because of profitability in that segment and the cost competitiveness of those things. Hydrocarbon is being boosted internationally also. In any case, that doesn't matter. India is going to have a tremendous demand for the hydrocarbon and with the kind of population we have. Definitely, green energy is also being a good contributor. The way our demand is growing with respect to all these hydrocarbons, naturally, we will have to have those facilities. Still, the time just is going to go.
We will be also having projects of maybe petrochemical segment and gasoline segment in the downstream segment. It will be less of a gasoline, but more of a Petchem segment. We do not see any major difference in the hydrocarbon business from all these segments. That is going to be there for at least the next decade or so.
Okay. Wonderful. Thank you, sir. And wish you all the best, yeah?
Thank you.
Thank you. We have a follow-up question from the line of Manish Otswal from Nirmal Bank Securities. Please go ahead.
Hello.
Hi, Manish.
Yes, sir.
Sir, I have one question on the JV profit which we report at consolidated level. Can you tell us in terms of activity in that JV profit and how we should think profitability trending at a consolidated financial level?
Actually, that JV is Ramagundam Fertilizer and Chemicals Limited that is engaged in the manufacturing of ammonia and urea. In this financial year, our share for the property is INR 107 crore against the previous year share of INR 85 crore. Our share in the RFCL is 26%. Our 26% is INR 107 crore. That is included in the bottom on consolidated basis.
Okay, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, if you wish to ask any questions, you may press star and one. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, you may press star and one now. We have another follow-up question from the line of Amit Anwani from PL Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for taking my question again. Again, the question on consultancy overseas, is it fair to assume that the consultancy overseas will have better margin than consultancy domestic?
Consultancy overseas, if you see an average of 20%-25%, 34-35% will be maintained. You can, in one way, say that consultancy overseas will have a little bit more margin than the Indian segment. It, again, depends on which territory you are working, the competition we have in that segment. It all depends.
Right. Second question, is that 35% is non-oil and gas in the order book currently, if I heard it right? Cumulatively, if we see the order prospects for FY 26, FY 27, can we assume that this 35% non-oil and gas can become 40%-50%? Will it increase? There is a much higher pipeline on non-oil and gas as well?
It will remain in the same range, 35%-40%.
Okay. Understood, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, if you wish to ask any questions, you may press star and one. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, you may press star and one now. We have our next question from the line of Yash Hegde from DAM Capital Advisors. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Good afternoon, and thank you for the opportunity. Thank you, and congratulations on a great set of results. My only question was, could you give a bit of an outlook on both NRL and RFCL and talk in terms of what kind of investments are we looking at in both of them for FY 2026 and the dividend that we expect to receive from NRL? Also, when do we expect RFCL to start paying dividends?
As far as dividend is concerned, last year, in the current year, we have got the dividend of INR 12 crore from the NRL. RSCL is still to declare dividend. We are expecting that in the current year, RSCL may declare some dividend for their investor. As far as the investment, we have NRL, we have already completed the investment cycle.
NRL, we have already completed all the investment cycle. There is no further planned investment in the RSCL as well as NRL. We have already subscribed to the rights issue of NRL. That has been completed.
All right, sir. Thank you, and best of luck for the financial year.
Thank you so much.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, if you wish to ask any question, you may press star and one. We have our next question from the line of Patanjali Chav, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Yes. This 2G bamboo-based clean energy in the northeast, you would be perhaps the first in the world to be executing this?
That's right.
That's awesome. I know I follow that part of renewable energy. My friend understands that very well. That's huge because you'll be creating so much employment for the farmers' income. I really, really congratulate you on that. If successful, do you see participating in more such projects of 2G along with other partners?
We hope so, sir, because this is our first plant and this is our pilot plant also, you can say, which will give a platform to put further and to owners to put more plants like this.
True that because it is not only the income and profit for the company. It is one of the biggest service to humanity and to Mother Earth. I wish you to be very successful in this and set up many more such projects across the country along with partners, of course.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Janardan Rao from Share Trend Research. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir. I'm not sure about the selling performance of the company. In the market, there is a lot to be improved because companies like NBCC (India) Limited and Rail Vikas Nigam Limited are enjoying the P/E ratio of above 55 and 66. Your company's stock is getting only around 22 P/E ratio. What steps is the company taking to improve the market perception?
Sir, we are giving good results to improve the concept of our investor. We are requesting through you, we are requesting our customers to give PE of 55 to EIL also. That is all our outcome.
There are frequent media interactions that are required, sir, to improve the perceptions about this stock because if you compare it to some of the companies in the banking side, Canara Bank is doing wonders. In the PSU stable, your company is doing wonders on the results front. The market is not recognizing the performances. That is what I want to emphasize.
Sir, definitely, we are making awareness to our investors, mutual funds, and other investors also. That is why our company has done a press meet also so that our investors can be aware about our progress path because this is the first time where our order book is all-time high. Definitely, this order book will help us to get more turnover in the future, more turnover and more bottom line profit. We will continue to get the orders in the coming years also. Definitely, yeah, the company.
The best of luck for the company and the best of luck for the nation building.
Yeah.
Thank you. Yes, sir. He got disconnected.
Okay.
That was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you very much.
Thank you. On behalf of.
Thank you, everyone, for the participation. Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of DAM Capital Advisors, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect.