Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the webcast of Eris Lifesciences Limited. We have with us on call today Mr. Amit Bakshi, Chairman and Managing Director, and Mr. V. Krishnakumar, Chief Operating Officer and Executive Director. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. All the participants are requested to restrict their discussion to the deals announced today. Please note, this webcast is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. V. Krishnakumar, Chief Operating Officer and Executive Director of the company. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Am I audible?
Yes, sir.
Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome, welcome to this webcast. Sorry, just give me a minute. So we are here to talk about the two announcements we have made today. Eris proposes to acquire the India-branded formulations business of Biocon Biologics and 19% stake in Swiss Parenterals from Eris Promoter Group. So at the outset, let us start by talking about our two key strategic objectives in the acquisition of Biocon business, India-branded formulations. So this is an out-and-out sterile injectables business. So through this acquisition, we are achieving two key strategic objectives. Firstly, this is a great platform to jump-start our India-branded sterile injectable business. It gives us an entry into critical care and oncology. Secondly, it gives us leadership in insulin and an anti-diabetes franchise of nearly INR 1,000 crores in size.
Put together with the Swiss Parenterals deal, which was announced last month, we have a bunch of synergies which can be leveraged for CD value creation. Talking a bit more about this. So we are able to share the big picture with you now. The Swiss Parenterals deal and the Biocon India-branded business deal, these were conceived together, and they were evaluated together, and we always saw the deals as, you know, belonging in one basket. They got done one month apart. But we are now in a position to share the integrated deal thesis with you.
So just to recap, Swiss Parenterals is a dossier-driven sterile injectable business in ROW markets, impressive product range with more than 190 unique existing molecules and a pipeline of more than 40 new molecules, and enabling a range of new growth opportunities for Eris, including India-branded injectables, oral solid dose in ROW markets, and injectables in ROW markets. What does the Biocon India-branded business bring to us? It is a branded injectable business with a revenue base of more than INR 360 crores per annum and an attractive product portfolio spanning insulins, critical care, and oncology. It brings Basalog and Insugen, two power brands and the largest Indian brands of glargine and human insulin, each being a INR 100 crore plus brand. And it gives us an entry into oncology with three mainstream MABs aggregating INR 80 crores in revenue. So what are we trying to do here?
What are we trying to put together? The Biocon business, with a revenue base of INR 360 crores, we believe is the ideal launch platform for us to address the India injectables market. We will be able to quickly scale up this business with new product launches from the Swiss Parenterals current and pipeline basket of more than 230 molecules. Biocon team will transition to Eris pursuant to this deal, which will help us ensure continuity of doctor and channel relationships. This deal will create the fifth largest diabetes care portfolio in India, with a revenue base approaching 1,000 crores per annum. And the notable part is, this is probably one of the very few cases where we have a significant footprint in oral anti-diabetes as well as injectable anti-diabetes. This will leapfrog the Eris insulin franchise to a leadership position with the addition of two power brands, Insugen and Basalog.
We have significant margin expansion potential in the acquired portfolio by leveraging Swiss manufacturing, insourcing, and long-term supply agreements with Biocon. So put together, we are targeting our next INR 1,000 crore vertical, which is in sterile injectables, where we are looking at a 3%-4% market share in the INR 30,000+ crore market over a three to four year time frame. Now we'll go into the details. A quick recap of Eris's journey in the insulin business: we entered the India insulin market in January 2022 with the formation of a 70-30 joint venture with MJ Biopharm. We commercialized two products, Xsulin and Xglar. And we achieved a quick scale-up of a greenfield business where we did INR 18 crore of revenue in the first financial year. This year, we are looking at INR 48-50 crore of revenue, and we are currently doing a monthly run rate of INR 5 crore of sales.
We are targeting the launch of liraglutide in the month of April. Biocon's insulin portfolio will leapfrog us to a leadership position. So Basalog is the largest Indian brand of glargine in the market, with a market share of around 10%-11% by volume. It is the only glargine biosimilar with clinical data on complete interchangeability with the innovator product Lantus. Insugen, again, the largest Indian brand of recombinant human insulin in the market, market share of 10%-11% by volume and value. The combined revenue of these two brands is in the vicinity of INR 200 crores per annum. We will continue our existing brands, Xsulin and Xglar, as well, put together, giving us a higher share of voice in the market. Moving on.
Biocon's critical care portfolio has a revenue base of around INR 80 crore per annum, with leading brands in important segments like immunoglobulins, human albumin, enoxaparin, heparin, and several ICU antibiotics. With a field force of more than 70 personnel, the unit has a comprehensive coverage of hospitals across the country. We have an immediate opportunity to start cross-selling the Swiss Parenterals product portfolio through this channel, including niche inhalation anesthetics, sevoflurane, and isoflurane. We have the margin expansion opportunity by leveraging the Swiss Parenterals manufacturing footprint for insourcing and technology transfer. The oncology portfolio of Biocon brings us three significant MABs with an aggregate revenue of INR 80 crore per annum. The first of these, BIOMAb, is a product called Nimotuzumab, which is India's first novel MAB for head and neck cancer.
The interesting part about this product, it has a huge range of potential additional indications, which are approved in other world markets, including pancreatic, esophageal, glioma, etc. CANMAb and Hertraz are the first biosimilars of trastuzumab to be approved anywhere in the world. These were co-developed by Biocon and Viatris. They address large indications, HER2-positive breast cancer, and metastatic gastric cancer. Put together, the two brands have a combined market share of 9% in a market which is growing at more than 30% per annum. Krabeva and Abevmy, which are biosimilars of bevacizumab, they are approved for treatment of metastatic colorectal cancer and a wide range of other cancers. Combined market share of the two brands is 6% in a market growing at 26% per annum. An employee base of 40, including more than 30 medical reps, are transitioning to Eris as part of this deal.
We are very happy with this distinctive product portfolio, which also has room for significant expansion through new product launches. We are also happy to note that this deal is in line with the salient features of our M&A strategy, which is number one, about expanding our presence in existing therapies and/or entering new therapies, turning around fundamentally good businesses that are suboptimally run, targeting quick value creation, looking at a turnaround in 12-18 months from acquisition. We achieve all this by rolling up our sleeves and doing the hard work, and sticking to our financial metrics in terms of a one-year forward EBITDA multiple of 10x-12x, and looking at assets with adequate growth potential and margin expansion potential.
Whatever has been demonstrated in terms of value creation in some of our earlier deals, so the Strides deal, for example, which we did in 2017, we picked up a brand called Renerve, which has grown 2.5x since then. We picked up a CNS franchise in the Strides deal, which has scaled 4x since then. The Zomelis brand that we picked up from Novartis has grown 9x since acquisition. And the dermatology basket that we put together in FY23, we have already spoken to you about it in the recent past in terms of how we have created value there. So we expect similar trajectory of value creation in the deals that have put together in this financial year as well. Talking a bit about the deal contours. So we have signed a definitive agreement to acquire the Indian-branded formulations business of Biocon Biologics Limited.
The scope of the acquisition includes multiple aspects as a going concern: the entire India-branded business with a current revenue run rate of more than INR 30 crore per month, trademarks and licenses pertaining to all mother brands, and working capital. Pursuant to the transaction, over 435 employees, including 325 reps, will join Eris. We have signed a 10-year supply agreement with Biocon for sourcing drug substance and drug products, with an option to technology transfer the manufacturing to locations of our choice. The consideration is INR 1,242 crore, including working capital, and will be funded through debt financing. We expect the transaction to achieve financial closure before 15th April. The next announcement is that Eris Lifesciences proposes to acquire an additional 19% stake in Swiss Parenterals from the Eris Promoter Group. This was a temporary bridge arrangement, as discussed with you last month, which is now being reversed.
We would also like to take this opportunity to underscore our commitment to de-leverage our balance sheet. As you all know, our cash flows have been strong and sustained over the last six years, with an average OCF of 75% of EBITDA. We expect this to continue in the years to come. This cash flow will enable debt servicing as well as principal repayment from FY25 onwards. We expect that Net Debt at the end of FY25 will be less than two times of one-year forward EBITDA. Putting it all together, we have added a number of strategic growth engines over the last two years: injectable anti-diabetes, dermatology. We have created a platform for India's sterile injectables. We have gotten into strategically important therapies like nephrology and oncology. We have created a platform for OSD exports and sterile exports.
Put together, this gives us the platform to look at a revenue of INR 5,000 crore in the year FY28. Our strategic objectives for the next three years would be, number one, integration and value creation from the leads, de-leveraging of the balance sheet, and achieving that set revenue. Excuse me. That concludes our presentation. We are open for Q&A.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. To ask a question, please click on the raise hand icon tab available on your toolbar or on the QA tab available on your screen. Kindly turn on your mic when the operator announces your name. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We have a first question from Tarang Agrawal from Old Bridge Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Hi. Hi, guys. Thanks for the update. Just a couple of questions. On the Biocon portfolio, what are the GCs for this portfolio between injectables, biosimilars, and the insulin business?
Is it audible?
Yes. Are we audible, Tarang?
Yes.
Yes. Yeah. So look, that is where we have come in. We were trying to bridge both of trying to put both of these deals together, but it didn't happen. So I'll just give you an example. So for example, the CCD business in the old hand was more about 21%- 22% GC. But when we did a calculation of where it has shifted to Swiss, how does it looks? So it goes almost close to 50%. So those were the synergies. The reason we had planned both of the deals together, but for some reason, it got postponed. So we are looking for when we do an injectable business, which is without insulin, the injectable business should be at 50% GC, while it takes time to get there, so a couple of quarters maybe. Insulin, we are very happy the way Biocon has supported us.
We are getting far better margins than we used to get for our Xsulin and Xglar. So another one or two quarters, we would be putting these things together. In the midterm, there's a potential of insulin to have a 70% kind of a gross margin. This is what we can see as of now. So we need to get some more time to just close the deal. But largely, it's 70%. MABs, the Hertraz, the nimotuzumab, is having a GC of more than 70%. The rest of the GCs are more like 30%-40%. But there is some scope there in terms of moving the supply and those things. So those things are a little work in progress. But these two businesses, largely, have this kind of GC in the midterm.
Got it. Just to get a sense on the supply arrangement that you entered with Biocon, so Biocon will essentially be manufacturing those biologics, and Eris will be marketing them, right? So that will be pertaining to the biosimilars business only, right? The peptides and the insulin business, will it extend to that as well?
Yeah. Insulin, majorly. Insulin, you know, is the largest piece. They're two very large brands. So insulin, majorly, plus all the MABs, you are right, the other product, which they don't have a manufacturing capability as of now, were already at a third-party location. In our view, most of them will transition to our own injectable plant. And that's how we have put the GCs together.
Oh, so the GCs that you enumerated in your address before, those are the GCs that will be relevant to Eris, is it, despite the supply arrangement from Biocon?
Yeah. These are the GCs which we will achieve in the midterm, say, two quarters from now.
Oh, okay. That's helpful. Okay. And I guess from considering that now the leverage and balance sheet will look like somewhere around INR 3,000 crore, if I'm not wrong, right?
Yes. Yes. Larger than 300.
From here on, my sense is that a large portion of your bandwidth will go into integrating everything that you've acquired for the next two years, correct?
Absolutely. Absolutely. So we used to say earlier, if something exciting comes our way, we don't know. But we are putting other credit there. And now it's time for us to we have expanded quite significantly with what you saw in the slides. And these are all brands which will give us a huge headroom for growth. So we are simply putting our heads down and looking into serious execution.
Okay. Thank you, guys. All the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, please click on the raise hand icon tab available on your toolbar or on the QA tab available on your screen. The next question is from Kunal Randeria from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. I hope I'm audible. So can you let us know what has been the revenue run rate for the two insulin brands, Insugen and Basalog, in the last five years?
Five years? So last year, I mean, I calculate the 12-month period since it is March. It is the number which we displayed. Both put together are in the range of INR 200 crore, largely sharing INR 105 crore and INR 101 crore kind of a number.
Sir, the reason I'm asking this is because at least as far as I have the As per AIOCD data, it's showing that sales, the last five years, have flat at around INR 200 crore. So is my understanding correct here?
So Kunal, if I may give the Axis perspective, so if you see, let's divide this into human insulin and glargine. So human insulin market, by volume, it has actually declined as per Axis data. In terms of units, you see a degrowth over the last five years. The market share of Insugen in unit terms has grown from around 8.5% to around 11% over the last five years. So actually, Insugen has taken share in unit terms from the innovator brand. So when you look at this kind of a market, it is a unit growth and a unit share which is strategically more important. And if you look at Basalog, again, glargine is a market which has been growing at around 2%-3% in unit terms. And the market share of Basalog has also significantly expanded in the way we shared on the slides.
These brands have actually expanded their market share and grown faster than market in the last five years.
[audio distortion] But Kunal, what is the question?
No, my question is, in value terms, so while you are gaining market share, I understand that, right? But in value terms, both these insulins aren't growing. Is that correct?
Yes. Yes. They have been flattish, Kunal. There have been a couple of reasons. Glargine, if I remember correctly, two years back came in NLEM. And there was a 20%-25% correction in the price across the board. So I can't really put my finger on the point. But yes, so have these products been doing wonderfully well in the last five years? The answer is no. One of the reasons was that there was an NLEM component there. And also understand that AIOCD, typically, human insulins are now moving to a lot of hospital supplies where there's a little bit of data here and there. So largely, what you're saying is right. The growth hasn't been phenomenal.
Sure. Sure. Maybe then, would you like to share what do you expect we should expect from this portfolio in the next three years, the insulin portfolio?
So Kunal, we will come back to you by the end of the quarter. We'll get some more time to just put the numbers together. But having said that, you've seen our excellent performance, which has kind of come up in the last two years. So insulin is something which our chances of outgrowing significantly is higher just because of the kind of product it is and the kind of therapy it is. So I will be happy to tell you more about this once we come for our Q4 numbers. But in my view, these two brands will move very well in the market.
Sure. Okay. My second question is one of the, I think, data points that you put in the slide. It said that maybe one year forward, EBITDA to EBITDA, it will be somewhere around 12x or something, 10x-12x, right?
Correct.
The press release says that you have bought it 18 times, right, which basically means that the EBITDA of the acquired business should move from INR 70 crore-INR 100 crore, right, in just one year's time. So how can I mean, I just want to understand if, let's say, we just discussed that the revenue is not growing as much, then how can the EBITDA in one year move so much? I mean, what do you think of the LMM?
No, Kunal, you are taking me back to the Oaknet deal. I mean, I remember the same question at that point of time. Look, in the first year, we do manage costs very well. So the first year, and this time, we have the people around. So what the numbers which we are telling you, 10x-12x, in my mind, we have no doubt on that because those are the cost synergies which would come up. For example, I told you when I moved this business, some of the business from third-party to our internal factory, we have a very, very significant jump. And the same thing will happen in the other products also. So I can commit to you today that what you're talking about, the EBITDA margin, doesn't seem to be difficult. The growth numbers is something which will take some time and come back.
Got it. Got it. And just one clarification, if I can, of I think Tarang also asked this question. Of what are the products that you will insource manufacturing? See, I'm sure you can't do the monoclonal antibodies. And probably Insugen also, Biocon will manufacture. So out of this INR 360 crore, how much of that will come in-house in the next 12 months?
Only INR 80-85 crore of existing sale. We plan to grow that 80-85. You remember when we were showing you the last deal of Swiss? We said we'll make first year INR 100-INR 120 crore in the general injectable space. So all that general injectable space will be done in our factory. The largest piece out of that will be we continue with Biocon and a partner between a DS and a DP. And some of it would be from, like you were talking about, a couple of products. Those will come from third-party.
Got it. Just one more question, again, a clarification. This INR 1,242 crore includes working capital, right?
Yeah. So 1,242 breakup is like this. It's like INR 100 crore, which is for supply advance, INR 50 crore for inventory, and the rest is the consideration for the brands.
Got it. So the reason?
So the reason I'm asking this is in Biocon's press release, it says that INR 1,242 crores and additional working capital, if any. So that's why I just wanted to clarify.
Yeah. So if there is additional working capital that we choose to take on, that will be our top-up. But this INR 1,242 crores includes INR 50 crores of working capital, which are much shared.
Got it. Perfect. Thank you. And all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from Vishal Manchanda from Systematix. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity. Hope I'm audible.
Yes, Vishal. Go on.
Yeah. So basically, on the transfer and supply arrangement, just a clarity. Would you be procuring the API from Biocon and doing the fill and finish at Swiss Parenterals? Is that your plan?
It will be a mix of two, three things. There would be a mix of where the bios, so I'll tell you, most of the time, MABs will be given us as a finished, fully formulated from Biocon. The DS would come from Biocon, and we will have a third party to fill and finish the way they had their arrangement. It is akin to how you were getting Xglar earlier. All other products, we will move into our facility, of course. A couple of them, if we don't have, we'll shift to third party. That's the larger kind of broad idea.
A third party, not at the Swiss Parenterals side, you mean, the fill and finish of formulation of insulin?
Both are largely, it will come okay. I think we are discussing. I'll just be a little clear on this. There are three components: critical care component, insulin, and MABs. MABs and insulin, the drug supplies will come from Biocon. The formulation will happen at different sites, including Biocon itself. The critical care, which is largely general antibiotics and enoxaparin, most of it will be transitioned to our Swiss facility. So the INR 80 crore piece will go to Swiss. The remaining will remain largely DS in Biocon and supply with third party.
Okay. And the gross margin expansion you shared in your first earlier in your comments, so how much would be that on account of this transfer?
So CCD will be a very large kind of a gain, which we are expecting. We have done those numbers. Of course, it takes a couple of quarters to get there. The other pieces, I said, insulin is something in midterm. We expect around 70% gross margin.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, please click on the raise hand icon tab available on your toolbar or on the QA tab available on the screen. We have a question from Rahul Sarvaiya from Franklin Templeton. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, Amit. On your own insulin brands from MJ Biopharm, so I think they will compete with these acquired brands as well. What is the plan there? Will we kill those brands, or will we continue to market both of them together?
Rahul, we have seen a lot of examples in the last five years of having two brands, maybe three brands also. There have been a couple of good studies where three brands could have managed. If you look at the size of the market which we are talking about, I think two brands can grow and can also not compete with each other. The way we are positioning these brands, the market slice is going to be different so that we can grab more market share in both the world. But we plan, and we are hopeful that there is enough headroom for both these brands to grow simultaneously.
Okay. And in terms of technology transfer, so you explained the immediate future. But post the 10-year transfer deal is over, then will Biocon transfer technology for manufacturing of insulin to Eris, and in what manner?
So Rahul, that is something which we have not discussed as of now. We have had a tech transfer agreement within our agreement, but that transfer is more about form and fill. So form and fill will happen sooner. And post 10 years is something which we haven't really applied ourselves as much. It will take some time. We have some time to get there.
Okay. And EBITDA margin and gross margin expansion which we are talking about from, say, current INR 70 crore to INR 100 crore plus, so that is possible in the current structure itself, right, only from the complex part?
Yeah. That I'm talking in the next year itself, so not far off.
Okay. And just to get this clear, that till I think we get our debt to EBITDA to more comfortable levels, we are still planning for the.
Yes. You're right. You're right. You're right. You want me to repeat that? We have enough on the plate, right? This was one thing which was conceived both the deals were conceived together, right? We have fully committed to reduce the debt and get our heads down and work on ruthless execution. We are doing nothing else.
Sure. And thank you for taking the investor feedback for reversing the Swiss stake.
Rahul, look, it was always a bridge. It had to be a bridge. It was always a bridge. It was conceived like that, right? I would love to say thanks for your feedback. But I would, again, remind you, it was not for that purpose. We were conceiving both of them together. It was always a bridge. And this is a fact which will remain a fact.
Sure. Thank you, Understood .
Thank you, Rahul. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from Tarang Agrawal from Old Bridge Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Hi. Just thanks for the follow-up. So two things, right? One, if I look at your critical care business that you've acquired, right, what is the scope of expanding that business to whatever products that you're getting from Swiss? That's number one. Number two, just wanted to get your pulse on how relevant will the MJ Biopharm JV going forward? I mean, I know you answered it, but you also spoke about positioning both the businesses differently. So just wanted to get your sense on that. And then a couple on financials, which I'll get back on.
So Tarang, the first question, you need to give us time. If you take us some time to kind of put the whole thing together. But there is a possibility of newer products, and there's a good possibility of expansion. What I can tell you right now, we are taking the field force size up from 60 to 132 on an immediate basis, which is basically adding 100% more people in that unit. So we have been vocal about this, that we find value in the India injectable market, in general sterile injectables. So we are putting our people behind that. To give you the growth scene, look, these businesses can grow very sharp because a lot of them is supply. And we don't have a handle of this at this point of time. So give us some time for you to get back.
But I don't think even in this year, we can tell you clearly how much we are doing. It will be a quarter-over-quarter things. When we go through one year of learning, we will be in a better position to talk about it. And the MJ piece, look, both the brands are important. They are doing well. It is not easy to create INR 50 crore franchisee in insulin. And these are two different teams. So we think that we can sell both of them together. How do we work out with MJs? Again, something is because we also understand that the supply of insulin is very critical. Having one more plan is always a good idea. So this is a very broad picture, but we are kind of these things are coming together. As soon as we finalize these things, we'll come back.
Sure. KK, just on the cost of debt here, what's the cost of debt? And given that the INR 1,250-odd crore is without GST, so my sense is we'll see an 18% GST payout right now, and then that'll probably get reversed in the year itself, correct?
There is no GST payout on this deal. It is a slump sale. That is the first answer. The second answer is the cost of debt is 8.65% for this deal.
And it's a fixed debt, right? It's a fixed cost?
Yes. Monthly reducing fixed. Monthly reducing fixed.
Okay. Okay. Thanks.
Thank you. A reminder to participants to click on the raise hand icon tab available on your toolbar or on the QA tab available on your screen to ask a question. The next question is from Rahul Sarvaiya from Franklin Templeton. Please go ahead.
Yeah. So just to get this clear, on the insulin part, so on the macro side, the overall volumes are degrowing, if I'm not wrong. So is that understanding correct? That is part one. And secondly, in terms of when you say we will outgrow the market, does this constitute gaining market share from the innovators? And what healthcare initiatives or, say, PCI, patient care initiatives, will we kind of take to achieve this? So if you could throw some light, that will be helpful.
Rahul, this is a little long one, but yes. No, I mean, before we ask him what will happen in the future, let me take you back in the. I'm sorry, I'm taking you back again on how excellent this performed. So look, diabetes, as some of you guys have appreciated in the past, has been one of the therapies which is quite we are quite into it. And insulin is a very integrated part of this therapy. And when you see unit growths, why? What you're saying is right. But when it comes to insulin, the data might not be all reflective because a lot of the usage happens in other places than the OPDs. So there's a little bit of a caveat there.
But we believe that having a greenfield project and having a brand which is not a known brand, so insulin, the typical history of an insulin brand is the older gets better because availability, the cold chain, the supply chain, and the confidence of an HCP is very important. So therefore, even when we were launching Xglar and Xsulin, we were very clear that we will go slow. And this is what happens when we go slow. But when it comes to Basalog, especially, I think we have a lot of headroom. And now look at the data, interchangeability data. It's actually called a biosimilar. So interchangeability data is something which no other glargine has. So if everything goes well, this is the brand which should sell the most.
But my question is, when the industry itself is declining in volume, so our growth will come from adding completely new patients who were not getting insulin in the past or gaining market share from the incumbents at a faster rate?
So largely, Rahul, it is gaining market share, right? And at the same point of time, glargine might not be used for all the initiations are far more than human insulins. So it is a combination of gaining market share and gaining new patients. So both put together, basically, will come together.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, please click on the raise hand icon tab available on your toolbar.
Team, if we have no more questions, can we close the call?
Ma'am, we have a few questions. Give me a moment, please.
All right. We'll do. Sure.
We have a question from, give me a moment, Tushar Manudhane from Motilal Oswal Financial Services. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for the opportunity. Just extending Rahul's question. So effectively, what kind of volume growth are we expecting in this market for the next 1-2 years?
So Tushar, we told you we will talk more about this when the quarter ends, and we also get our whole thing. It's just come in. So I would request you to wait for a while. Once we are done with this quarter, we'll come back.
Secondly, given that the INR 80 crore is what you highlighted, that can be outsourced to or let's say that can be insourced to Swiss Parenterals. Remaining will still remain with Biocon, right?
Yeah. Tushar, the remaining will be a combination of Biocon and third-party. This is a layered conversation. It is very difficult to explain it in black and white because there are two components here. There is drug substance, and then there is drug substance to drug product. So as part of the supply agreement, we have a technology transfer arrangement with Biocon, whereby the DS to DP technology will be transferred to any location of Eris choice. So it is up to us to decide whether this will be Eris or whether this will be Swiss or any other location. So that is one level of manufacturing. And then there is a second layer which is where will the DS come from. So for the foreseeable future, the DS will come from Biocon.
As said earlier on the call, we also have a second source for the DS, which is MJ, which is a good thing to have. It is that kind of an arrangement that will play out.
So just effectively trying to understand the improvement in gross margin that can happen because of these changes?
Yeah, Tushar. So we articulated earlier on the call that we see insulin's gross margin at around 70% levels in the next couple of quarters itself, right? So that is going to be a combination of all these arrangements. And as far as the critical care margins are concerned, we spoke about a gross margin expansion from 20%-50% as soon as we bring most of it in-house.
Got it. So at least that much improvement in profitability is very much given. And then whatever rationalization of equal force and all, that will further improve the profitability. Is that right?
There is no rationalization, Tushar. We don't need to do any rationalization. We guided you to an EBITDA. So this acquired business has an EBITDA of around INR 70 crore in FY24. And we are talking about an EBITDA of INR 100 crore, INR 110 crore next year. This is something that will come by margin expansion. We don't need to do any rationalization. In fact, Amit has approved that we are actually doubling the field force of critical care.
Got it. That's helpful. Thank you.
Thanks.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take that as the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to Mr. V. Krishnakumar for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you all for your participation in this call. We are very excited. We are very excited about the two deals that we have put together in the last two months. We believe that this is the start of something big and exciting, and we are all charged up and motivated. We have a clear line of sight for INR 3,000 crore of revenue next year with similar kind of margins. Then that base organically growing to reach INR 5,000 crore in the next three years. We are committed to deleveraging the balance sheet. We are looking at a debt to EBITDA of less than 2x by the end of FY 2025 on a one-year forward level. With that note, thank you all for your support, and we look forward to your continued support. Have a good evening. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Thank you so much.
Thank you very much, sir. Thank you, members of the management. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Eris Lifesciences Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now exit the meeting.