Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the conference call of Eris Lifesciences. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. V. Krishnakumar, Chief Operating Officer and Executive Director of the company. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Good morning. I'm happy to share with you today that Eris has announced its entry into India's insulin and GLP-1 agonist market through Eris MJ Biopharm Limited, a special purpose joint venture between Eris and Mumbai-based MJ Biopharm Private Limited. The insulin and GLP-1 market in India is presently worth INR 3,500-INR 4,000 crores, and we expect it to double over the next five years. We are talking of an addressable market of nearly INR 8,000 crores by the year 2025, 2026. Eris, one of India's leading players in the oral diabetes care segment, will now extend its product offering to insulin and GLP-1 agonists.
The 70/30 joint venture, where Eris holds a 70% stake, will primarily engage in the marketing and distribution of human insulin to begin with, and subsequently insulin analogs, including glargine, aspart, lispro, and GLP-1 agonists, including liraglutide, and potentially other biopharma products in India. We expect to launch human insulin in quarter four of this financial year. This will be part of the guidance of 10 new product launches we have given for this financial year. Now let me explain the deal rationale to you. We all know that diabetes is a progressive disease and that India's patient pool in diabetes is set to at least double in the next 20 years. Hence, the next decade will see diabetes care emerge as an even more crucial therapy.
The anti-diabetes therapy growth in the next 10-15 years will be driven mainly by four categories, DPP-4, SGLT-2, insulin, and GLP-1 agonists. Firstly, DPP-4 inhibitor and SGLT2 inhibitors, and their combinations will play a major role in the oral diabetes market on account of their superior clinical evidence around glycemic control, cardiorenal protection, and weight management. These two segments account for 83% of the U.S. oral anti-diabetes market, whereas the penetration is only 44% in India. We expect this penetration to rapidly increase following the loss of exclusivity of more products in these two segments in India. On the back of our strong market position on oral anti-diabetes and successful introduction of blockbuster brands like Romalis and Gluxit, we are well positioned to ride the growth wave in DPP-4 and SGLT2. Now coming to the other part.
Human insulin, analog insulin, and GLP-1 agonists are expected to gain traction in India as our diabetes treatment protocols get aligned with Western standards. These two segments account for 61% of the total anti-diabetes market in the U.S., compared to only 21% in India. This limited penetration is largely on account of limited suppliers in India and higher price points. Example, the cost of GLP-1 therapy in India is typically around INR 12,000 per month, compared to INR 1,200-INR 1,800 a month for glargine therapy, versus INR 400-INR 600 a month for oral anti-diabetes. The entry of additional players in insulin and GLP agonists will improve access to these therapies and hence drive faster growth in these segments.
Through the formation of this joint venture, we bridge an important gap in our diabetes care portfolio and are well positioned to leverage the market opportunity in human insulin analog, and GLP-1 agonists as well. Our unique patient care engagement platform, through which we reach thousands of patients every year, will enable us to effectively leverage the opportunity in the insulin market, which is essentially a patient service and engagement-oriented segment. Now I will give a, you know, overview about MJ Biopharm, who is a JV partner. It's a privately held biopharma company with proven capabilities in the development of advanced biological formulations from pre-clinical through to phase III and regulatory approval. MJ has an R&D team of 35 members, including three PhDs. MJ operates two WHO GMP-compliant manufacturing facilities for biologics, bulk, and formulations based on the microbial fermentation platform.
In terms of dosage forms, they can manufacture injectable formulations in ampoules, vials, cartridges, and pre-filled syringes. They have manufactured and supplied more than 14 million vials and more than 4 million cartridges of human insulin to over 25 countries around the world since 2015. MJ's product pipeline presently consists of insulin analogs glargine, lispro, and aspart, and liraglutide, which is a GLP-1 agonist. The initial contracted tenure of the joint venture will be 10 years, and the business will be kick-started with human insulin, as mentioned, and will eventually expand to cover a range of insulin analogs, GLP-1 agonists, and other biopharma products. MJ will be paid a one-time lump sum fee of INR 15 crores at the commencement of the JV. Eris will be responsible for ongoing sales, marketing, distribution, and pharmacovigilance.
MJ will be responsible for supplying products to the joint venture via the terms of a 10-year supply arrangement. Together, we will bring our complementary skills to bear in order to expand access to the insulin and GLP-1 therapy in the Indian market. We can now open for Q&A.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Abdulkader Puranwala from Elara Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. I just wanted to know that what are the kind of investments you will have to do for this insulin business. Are you also going to invest on the cold chain side or, you know, for the distribution side? And will that cost be entirely borne by Eris or it will be under the JV side? Hello? Am I audible?
Hello. Hi. Can we go to the next question, please? We still have the question from Mr. Abdulkader Puranwala. We couldn't hear it. Maybe Abdul will join back in the line. Can we move to the next question please? Thank you. We'll move to the next question, which is from the line of Rojika Ren from PRP Wealth. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. My question is like hello?
Please go ahead, ma'am.
Yeah. Like it is mentioned that, you know, we'll be offering some kind of therapeutic option to the patients in cardiometabolic segments. What kind of products will be available to the patients?
We just answered that question in the introduction. We said that through the deal we are entering the insulin analog and GLP-1 agonist market. Those are the product options that we will be able to add to our product basket.
Okay. Thank you, sir. One more question, like, how will the revenues and the margins will get affected after this transaction?
It is too early to talk about revenues and margins, since many of the planned launches are still in the development stage. Over the life cycle of this project, the return on invested capital will be around 30%, which is in line with what our existing business has been generated for the last 12 years.
Okay. All right, sir. One more. My last question is, like, are there any guidelines you would like to provide going further?
I think at this point this is the guidance that we can provide, that return on invested capital or IRRs for this project is in the range of 30%. More clear details and information will be provided as and when we are ready, because as I said, we are launching human insulin in quarter four and then subsequently all the other planned launches are in the development pipeline. We will keep updating our guidance as we go along.
All right, sir. Thank you so much and all the best for your future endeavors. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. Participants to ask a question may press star and one. The next question is from the line of Anubhav Aggarwal from Credit Suisse. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Morning, guys. Just one question. It's so how big is this human insulin market with which you're starting?
Yeah. The human insulin market presently is about INR 1,500 crore. Out of the total INR 3,500-INR 4,000 crore market, INR 1,500 crore is human insulin. It is kind of INR +1,500 crore . You can take it in the INR 1,500-INR 1,800 crore range.
This is excluding the analogs, right? This is the basic.
Yeah, yeah. This is pure human insulin. The rest of it is analogs and GLP-1.
In terms of timelines, when do you expect to launch the analog as well?
The first analog, which is glargine, that is in phase III and it is expected that sometime in the calendar year 2023, it could make it through the commercial launch.
CY 2023 you mentioned?
Calendar year 2023.
Yeah. Okay. We typically have seen, as previous participants also are seeing, that margins in insulin are much lower in general for the industry. Would you say the margins could be just half of what you make normally?
It's too early to say.
No, the reason we're asking is because the cost of manufacturing is also very important insulin. We are not sure MJ Biopharm, what is their scale and therefore how competitive they will be versus the other players in the market. Can you give some idea about their cost or potential cost versus the other players in the market?
Yeah. There are a couple of things I can tell you by way of guidance. One is that, I have given you some indication of their volumes, the kind of scale at which they operate in my introductory comments. They are pretty much the largest third-party manufacturer of this product in India. Secondly, I think, you know, the margins finally what we will make. I think to say that it might be half of our, you know, existing margin, that's that I think too much of a probable assumption to make at this point. Because once the analogs come into play, you know, then the margins will end up being better than what is with the human insulin, given the sheer difference in price points.
The analysis that we've done is based on an ROIC basis because we are here in this business to, you know, ultimately make return on capital. As you can see, this is a very capital efficient deal for us because, you know, we are paying a one-time license fee of INR 15 crore upfront. Apart from that, there is no capital investment. On an ROIC basis, we expect this business will generate close to 30%, which is what our parent business also generates.
One last question, then I'll come back in the queue. Sir, on this human insulin itself, I'm not talking about analogs here, INR 1,300 crore market. Do you think you can take a potential 10% market share or more than that in this market in next two-three years?
You know, in terms of the strategy for human insulin, I think it would be best for Amit to comment. I would invite him to share his perspectives in terms of the go-to-market. Amit, would you like to chip in?
Am I audible?
Yes, you are.
Yes.
Okay. Thank you. Anubhav, look, the interesting thing among in the human insulin market is there's a shift from a vial to a cartridge and a pen. Now, this I think is something which is very interesting. There are a number of new patients who are coming in, and equally there are a number of people who have been shifting from the vial to the cartridge. This vial to a cartridge, because vials is always 30% in value of overall business and has been growing. Sorry, cartridges are 30% of the overall value and have been growing better than the vials.
That is where we have an edge, because, you know, of our, of our own manufacturing integration, and we feel that a lot of human insulin will shift to the cartridge in the next three-five years, and we plan to be a catalyst in that particular field. 10%, over a period of time is completely manageable.
Sure. Amit, this is more about low pricing than how do you convince doctors to prescribe your product here? Because this is a little different from the other categories that we got into. This is very much an established product category where there are no new products to enter into.
Anubhav, it will take you for a little surprise that the adoption of insulin among physicians is still only 30%. That means if we presume that 50,000 physicians practice in India, the adoption of people who write insulin is only 30%. That means a lot of work has been left open to be executed. What we bring to the table, why we think we are in a good position because insulin is a very patient service-oriented business where you have to really service the patients well. You know that from the last decade we have been doing a lot of patient services and that is a clear-cut advantage which we have in getting traction in our human insulin business. Two things.
One, 30% of the patients need insulin, but India is low on initiation. Low initiation is typically happening because the participation of physicians in insulin initiation is still low. These two pieces put together, plus the technology. Now what happens? The initiation of insulin has a problem of a risk of hypoglycemia. Now imagine we have been doing CGM for a long period of time. When we put all these things together and, you know, establish a better practice of human insulin initiation with the field force who has been trained on, you know, patient engagement, that seems to me as the X factor.
Okay. Can you talk about patient engagement? Are you planning to have, let's say for example, in the diabetic field you had multiple cases where you used to you know, screen patients for their you know, their sugar levels, et cetera. What kind of patient engagement that you can bring in here which can provide you an edge here?
I can tell you at this point of time that we are bringing in a much larger piece of you know technology into insulin initiation through devices. That will be our you know our gain. We'll be starting the insulin business with all the technology background. That is where we think we will have more and more adoptions.
Sure, Amit. Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Prakash from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good morning and thanks for the opportunity. There's some similar-
Your line is-
Hello?
Please go ahead, sir.
Yeah. On similar lines, you know, as the insulin players are mostly established MNC players and couple of them are selling on behalf of these MNC players. You know, one is this technology-related engagement, et cetera. I mean, what would be our right to win, I mean, the established players and we entering into these kind of difficult to enter markets, while it is clearly helpful in covering the full portfolio of diabetes. I mean, what would be the strategy if you could give more details around? How should we look at ramping up market share within this space? I mean, if you look at Biocon in so many years, in Glargine they're still number two.
Yeah. Prakash, I think, you know, as I alluded to, when I was talking to Anubhav, we look at these two things. Now, you've used some strong words saying very established and, you know, very penetrative brands. I'm showing you the other piece that even after that, the adoption rate will be 30% in the entire physician. I can give you one more data point. The adoption rate in GP, in the general practitioner is only 2%. Now, all of us know that 30% of people who have diabetes at some point of time will go to insulins. That's a global data which we have. Now, imagine with this kind of population of diabetes, these 30%, they are all over the place.
What I'm trying to reiterate is that still the adoption of insulin is very low. Still there is a huge fear of introducing insulin. The basic reason for that is, one is a myth that insulin is the last resort, and second is the fear of hypoglycemia. Now, if this fear can be taken care of, if we can, you know, if you are able to give comfort, and technology is the right thing to go. I think, look, I'll give you a different example. When technology sits with insulin, it becomes an insulin pump, which doesn't give any hypoglycemia. That is the reason why type 1 diabetics have been able to live in Western countries for 70 years. The basic medicine remains the same, but it is the technology which tells when to take and how much to take.
There are no hypoglycemia and hyperglycemia. That's the way forward, and that is what, you know, we think we'll be able to pull out.
Okay, understood. The second part was how do you see the ramp up of your insulin you know start of the journey, given you said that you're gonna start with human and then, I mean, and what are the timelines you're expecting these analogs to come through?
Prakash, KK just told that human insulin will start in the fourth quarter. Within human insulin, pen and cartridge is something which, you know, which has an advantage. We have the glargine in phase III already, so the approvals from the regulators are already coming. It takes maybe a year. That is why we are looking at 2023 calendar year to, you know, get started with analog. We might have one more product going into phase III in the next three-four months. Till 2026, we have something or the other coming in. That's what the plan is.
No, no, I understood that. My question was on how is the ramp up that we're expecting on these, you know, four phases launches?
Prakash, we are roughly wanting, you know, some 50,000-60,000 patients in the first year. That's what we are looking at. We believe that with analogs coming in, the ramp up will further really shoot. That's the time we'll see a lot more, you know, ramp up happening.
Okay. Last which is, I mean, the patient is already on a drug, I mean, have you done some studies where, you know, normally Indian patients do not switch despite product being the same? Have you done some studies in terms of what is the switching rate in terms of brands with the same product in insulins?
Switching, as you know, has always been a difficult thing. We don't really depend too much on switch. Having said that, switching to a superior technology is something which is always happening, will keep on happening. That is where the space is from a switch point of view.
Okay, got it. Thank you.
Thank you, Prakash.
Thank you. A reminder to the participants, to ask a question, please press star and one. The next question is from the line of Kunal Ramesh from Emkay Global. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Good morning, and thank you for this opportunity. The first question, regarding the penetration numbers that you shared in U.S. versus India, are those in value terms for, let's say, SGLT2, DPP as well as insulin?
Yeah, this is value terms. This is value data as reflected by IQVIA.
Sure. When you say that insulin penetration is kind of low in India, have you studied it in terms of the type 1 and type 2? Because I think the primary users are type 1 diabetes, juvenile diabetes. They use it for their entire life, whereas the type 2 ones, they use it very occasionally. What would be the penetration of juvenile diabetes right now in India?
Look, type 1, you have to take insulin. It is life-saving. If you don't take insulin, there's no survival rates. Having said that, type 1 is a very, very small population of diabetes. It is considered to be less than 1% of total diabetes. Therefore, the entire market does depend on type 2 diabetes. type 2. In type 2 diabetes, there is data that 30% people suffering from type 2 diabetes will eventually go to insulin, will need insulin for control. The major market globally remains at type 2 and India more so ever.
Sure. Switching is not easy, you know, in human insulin brand. Does that mean that then your growth would be dependent on population which is newly diagnosed, so it would be more a function of the incidence of diabetes?
Generally, insulin initiation happens generally from fifth to seventh year of, you know, being diagnosed with diabetes. Here it is not about the detection of the diabetes, because the protocols do suggest that once the patient is detected, he goes into, you know, oral diabetes agents, and it is five to seven years time when, you know, he might need insulin. That is where the data is. This business is more dependent on patient who have not been able to have control on OAs and then moving insulin. Or there are some, you know, some patient types where you need to give insulin very early. Typically, patient who lose a lot of weight in diabetes, so we can clearly understand that the beta cells are not functioning anymore.
The way we read it, you know, when we were very young is, you know, it's like riding a horse. Beta cells is like riding a horse. You give a whip, it will secrete more, it will run faster. Another whip, maybe faster. Still faster. At this point, there comes a point where as much as you like, the horse doesn't move. That is what happens to the pancreas also. The beta cells, after some time, do not respond to OA, and that is called, typically called beta cell failure. That is where you need to give insulin to make the metabolism work.
Sure. Thank you. Thank you for those answers.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Tushar Manudhane from Motilal Oswal Financial Services. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Just taking forward from the previous participants and then further connecting that to the price point where there is a significant spread between the GLP-1 therapy and let's say the oral diabetes. While, you know, the necessity would be to take up the GLP-1 therapy, but considering the price point, you know, how critical or, you know, how easy or difficult it is to convert the patient to GLP-1 therapy? That is first question. Secondly, irrespective of that, further, now that you are going to introduce the product, relatively how much of the price discount can be possible from these levels? Thirdly, even if the price discount, let's say, go up to 50%, which is let's say from INR 12,000 per month to INR 6,000, still it is much costlier compared to the previous therapy.
If you could answer these three questions.
It's too early to provide responses on pricing. It is very clear that we are committed to expanding the access to insulin in India. I think in terms of providing some insights around this topic, I would invite Amrit to share his perspectives, if any.
From one region, for GLP and analogs to have a lower adoption is the prices. This is not new. We have seen this with SGLT2, we have seen with DPP-4. Imagine a DPP-4 being sold for 10 years, grows 100% in the first year, and the price comes down to 30%. The way you look at this data, you see how the developed countries are behaving. As we told you that there's a 61% adoption between GLP insulin in U.S. That is where the money is being paid by the insurer, and that is where people do work as per the guidelines. The guidelines do suggest an early adoption of GLP insulin also. I think the price coming down will be the time.
Whosoever does it, but whenever the price comes down, that is the time the adoption will just hit the roof. That 5000 question, look, we have seen the other side of the story is we have seen SGLT2 and DPP-4 inhibitors selling at around INR 50-INR 60 a month, 50-60 bucks a tablet, sorry, which is like INR 2000 currently. They have, you know, worked out together between INR 2000 crore market in India. There is a lot of comfort now on a $1 a pill a day kind of a price point. If GLP-1, as you said, could be half or maybe little here and there, the adoption rate will go up tremendously.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abdulkader Puranwala from Elara Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Am I audible now?
Yes, sir, you are.
Yeah. A couple of questions on the entire JV side. First of all, I would like to understand what are the kind of investments you'll have to do in order to promote the entire insulin franchise and whether it be done through the equity route only or you will have to do it in a personal capacity.
There are no capital investments in the JV. As I mentioned, at the start that upon closing, there is a one-time license fee of INR 15 crore payable. All the other so-called investments which are of CapEx nature that will be undertaken through the JV.
Sure. Second question is, when I look at some of the competitors whom you will be competing with, they have a local manufacturing advantage. So you can get this, you know, done easily by toll manufacturers. Is there any specific reason why you would want to go toll manufacturing over entering the JV route?
We believe that a joint venture creates better alignment of interest in the long term. It is true that there are people who are getting it total manufactured. I think the scope of this joint venture is, you know, something very broad. It's not just insulin. We're starting with human insulin. We are adding insulin analogs in GLP, and we can add potentially other biopharma products also. Because microbial fermentation is a platform technology on which you can manufacture a whole range of products. We see this JV as a long-term kind of alignment entry into biopharmaceuticals, which is why this is a 10-year JV and which is why we've chosen the JV route.
Sure. Just final question. By when should we expect all the three forms to be launched in the market? You mentioned the Glargine will be in Q4. The rest two are aspart and lispro. By when would that also be launched into the market?
Glargine is not Q4. Human insulin will be launched in Q4 of this year.
Okay.
Glargine, we said, is in phase III, and it will be launched in calendar year 2023.
Okay.
2023.
Sure.
The remaining products are in various stages of development. As and when the time is right, we will come back to you with the guidance on this.
Okay. Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anubhav Aggarwal from Credit Suisse. Please go ahead. As the person has placed the call on hold, we'll move to the next question, which is from the line of Vivek Tulshyan from Neoma Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. I just want to understand what is the share of MJ Biopharm in the human insulin market. You mentioned that they are the largest third-party manufacturers. Is there some sense on how big they are in this market?
We don't have that kind of market share data published and available. Suffice to say they have built significantly large scale. As I mentioned, they got approval for human insulin in 2015, so they have been in the market for six years manufacturing and supplying to other pharma companies. Between cartridges and vials, they have done nearly 20 million in volumes in the last five to six years. That's significant scale in this business.
Understood. The other question is on the agreement. Does this give us any kind of exclusivity for some of the products that are going to be launched or MJ Biopharm will continue to manufacture it for other players as well?
Each product, you know, will be discussed as it comes up for launch. But there is nothing in the agreement that precludes MJ Biopharm from, you know, continuing its contract manufacturing business because building market share in crowded markets has been the DNA of Eris. If you go back to when Eris was launched in 2007, we brought glimepiride to the market. At that point, glimepiride was genericized. There were dozens and dozens of glimepiride brands in the market, and yet we have built Glimisave M to, you know, number , five number six market share. That's what we're good at. That's essentially the game that we will be playing in insulin also. Supply of products to third parties as a contract manufacturer, that's not something that bothers us a whole lot.
Got it. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Participants, you may press star and one to ask a question now. The next question is from the line of Anubhav Aggarwal from Credit Suisse. Please go ahead.
Yeah. One question on MJ Biopharm. Can you just talk about how large is the scale for them? Not the volumes, 20 million, but overall, revenue side, how large is this company?
Yeah. My understanding is they are coming up to around INR 200 crore in revenue.
Okay. Just some more clarity on one of the question which I've asked. They're getting a 30% share in this JV versus just acting as a tool manufacturer. If they are not bringing any capital investment and if they're just supplying the product, I'm assuming they're taking certain margin on the supply of the products also. What's in your interest to give 30% in JV to them? Or is it that you're getting benefit that when you're getting the supply of the products, the margin that they're keeping is so low that you are giving a 30% interest in the JV to them.
It's too early to talk about that because, you know, we have just formed the JV and each product will be a different agreement. You know what is the price at which each product will be launched, what will be the supply side, that will be decided on a product by product basis. As I said, you know, we didn't want to make this very tactical and look at product by product kind of third party arrangement because, we believe that, you know, there is a lot of things to be said about biopharma being an important lever going forward. We don't see this JV as only for human insulin or insulin analogs, but we see this as a long-term platform on which we can build a biopharma business, and that is the reason for the 70-30 equity stake.
Okay. What I'm asking is this price. Sorry, there is echo on that line. These guys will be supplying products on non-exclusive basis. I can understand if you give them 30% stake, they will have a higher interest to give their future products to you guys as well. If it's a non-exclusive contract, then still giving 30% stake is not very clear also.
It is obvious that, you know, for human insulin they have supply agreements in place, right? Those will continue. There is nothing because of the agreement which will affect those supply agreements. For the newer products, we have agreed that, you know, obviously they will probably not need to go so broad-based in terms of having third party supply agreements. The JV will definitely get some kind of a preference, so that is.
KK, can I come in here, please?
Yeah.
Anubhav, this 30% equity has been given, or we have come to this arrangement looking at what will happen in the next 10 years. Since each of these products, you know, we see can have large volumes and value. We wanted, one, a surety of supply. Second, we wanted to, you know, shape up the future in case of what is to be done early, what is to be done later. We wanted a say there, and we also wanted a say or, you know, an understanding of how better we can integrate. There is not one, but there are more than one things which have been considered for having this JV.
When we looked at the market, we understood that if we keep on running a third party kind of an arrangement, this business will get more and more difficult to enter. That is the reason, you know, we stayed out of this for so many years. Otherwise, it was quite easy to understand. After having a position already, it is a natural progression to get into insulin. We are getting enough and more, we had enough and more reasons to get this into this JV. It will be, as I said, the supply, some kind of a pricing, some kind of a strategic, you know, direction which comes when which combinations, all those things. That's where it is important.
Sure. That is clear. The last question on this is that, like we are paying INR 15 crore right now. When Glargine gets approved or other product gets approved, maybe would there be some more milestone payments to MJ?
Anubhav, there's nothing which we have decided at this point of time. There is nothing in the agreement. I told you that this is strategic. Why giving 30% to the manufacturer is important because we need to have his interest also in place. While there is no agreement on that side, the way it will evolve and if we think that there is some strategic investment which we need, which needs to go behind, we will be completely open. That's how our mind is at this point of time.
Sure. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask a question now. The next question is from the line of Surajit Pal. Please go ahead.
Good morning, gentlemen. What I understood is that there are two things which is bit different than what Eris has been telling us or has been targeting. One area is that which you are talking about is that the given the kind of data concentration level or the expansion level of insulin in GP is 2%, whereas you know the specialty super specialty is around 30%. Now given the kind of understanding what you have been telling us since beginning of this conference call, what I understood is that instead of wasting time and energy for converting people of the existing insulin takers, you might be targeting the guy who could be potential candidates to be converted into insulin. That would be easier. That means you are targeting new clients. Am I understanding it right?
There will be a mix of both.
I understood the mix of both. Your major target will be the new customer rather than the converting and pursuing the older to new one, which will be side by side will keep on going, but your major focus will be the new customer, which will be easier to catch hold of.
Yeah, if you have this understanding, then I'm okay with it.
My question is that since this period, your basic USP is that you're a network among the specialty and super specialty. What kind of strategy you have to get into also to the GP level, where it will be easier to catch hold of or converting people into
Education and hand-holding for insulin initiation.
Okay. The second thing is that your return ratio focus instead of the, you know, operating margin focus. This is something new. Going forward, given the kind of JV you have made, can we expect that there could be more number of products coming out of, you know, this JV or any other JV or unlicensed deal, where margin will be lower than your current margin, but your target will be, you know, around 30% kind of ROIC or ROC. That will be your target going forward. That could be the second understanding. Is it any changes?
Yes. We have always maintained that we evaluate new opportunities, and we always get asked about what screens do we use to evaluate M&A opportunities or in-licensing opportunities. We've always maintained that return on capital is the most important metric for us. Because you know, you might have a business that is 40% EBITDA margin, and then you have something that comes up, which is 30% EBITDA margin. That in itself doesn't make it a conclusive evaluation point because you also have to see what investments you're making. ROIC is not something that has popped up yesterday. ROIC has always been our screen to evaluate investment opportunities, and it will continue to be so. We continue to screen M&A and in-licensing opportunities all the time.
Anything that is a strategic fit and anything that meets the financial hurdle, that is something that we will consider very strongly.
Okay. Going forward, you know, given the kind of plan you have in terms of launching quite a good number of products and adding value to your portfolio. Into medium to long term, we can expect that you might be ending up to the margin of something like around 30% from the current level, where you will maintain your ROIC?
I think that's too difficult to say because nobody can, you know, forecast what kind of deals will get done over what time period.
Mm-hmm.
As far as medium to long-term margin is concerned, we have always maintained that considering where we are starting from, standalone EBITDA margin of 40%-42%, we have the luxury and liberty to let go of 200, 300, 400 basis points of EBITDA margin as we push for growth. That is something that has always been our strength.
Okay. Thank you and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of [Arihant] Sharma from Infinity Investments. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, good morning. My question is, in your presentation, you have said that Eris will be responsible for sales and marketing. Will Eris have to add in the MRs, rather than improve the field force?
Now, Pankaj, would you like to address that?
Yeah. This JV will house, to start with, around 200 people. Then going forward, there could be some expansion, but this JV will start with 200 people.
Okay. Yeah. My next question is, this JV is more focused on diabetes. Are you planning on entering any other JV, maybe in neurotherapy? What will be your strategy going forward regarding this?
As far as therapy focus is concerned, we have maintained that there are six therapies around which we are focusing our investments, diabetes, cardiovascular, VMN, CNS, dermatology, and women's health. Any of the investments that we make, whether it is organic or inorganic, will be centered around these specialties.
Okay. Yeah, noted. Thank you and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand over the conference to Mr. V. Krishnakumar for closing comments.
Thank you all for taking this call today morning. By way of summary, we all know that diabetes is a progressive disease and that India's diabetes patient pool is set to at least double in the next 20 years. Hence, the next decade will see diabetes care emerge as an even more crucial therapy. The anti-diabetes therapy growth in the next 10-15 years will be driven primarily by four categories, DPP-4, SGLT-2, insulin, and GLP-1 agonist. Our strong market position in oral anti-diabetes will enable us to ride the growth rate in oral anti-diabetes through DPP-4 and SGLT-2 inhibitors and their combination. Through this newly formed JV, we bridged an important gap in our diabetes care portfolio and are well-positioned to leverage the market opportunity in human insulin analogs, and GLP-1 agonists.
Our unique patient care platform, through which we reach thousands of patients every year, will enable us to effectively leverage the insulin opportunity, which is essentially a patient service and engagement-oriented segment. We will bring our complementary skills to bear in order to expand access to insulin and GLP1 therapies in the Indian market. Thank you for attending this call, and have a great weekend.
Thank you. On behalf of Eris Lifesciences, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.