Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Billionbrains Garage Ventures Limited, popularly known as Groww, Q2 and H1FY 2026 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the management's remarks. Please note that this call is being recorded. Additionally, please note that this earnings call is scheduled for a duration of 45 minutes, and we will be starting directly with the Q&A session right after a few words by Lalit. If you wish to ask a question, please use the raise hand feature available on your Zoom dashboard. We will announce your name on the call and unmute your line, post which you can proceed with your questions. We will wait for a moment while the question queue ascends.
Ladies and gentlemen, I now hand the call over to Himanshu from Bank of America. Thank you, and over to you, Himanshu.
Thank you, Michelle, and thank you, everyone, for joining the call today. It's a great pleasure to host the management of Groww for their first post-IPO results call. Before I begin, I would like to read out a standard disclaimer from Bank of America. The opinions, statements, and other information provided today by Groww management are not the opinions, statements, or information of BofA Securities. Such opinions, statements, or information will be based solely on publicly available information and not in breach of any confidentiality obligations owed to third parties. Please note that BofA Securities are not providing any financial, investment, legal, tax, medical, or other professional advice, and in particular, are not providing any advice or view with respect to any securities or financial instruments or the advisability of investing in, purchasing, or selling any securities or financial instruments.
With that, let me hand over the conference to Kunal Raj Singh, Head of Investor Relations. Thank you, and over to you, Kunal.
Thank you, Michelle. Thank you, Himanshu. Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the second quarter FY 2026 earnings calls of Billionbrains Garage Ventures Limited. Our financial results and shareholders' letter have been published on the exchanges, and the information pack has also been uploaded on the company's IR website. Before we begin, I would like to remind all the attendees that certain statements or comments made on this call by the management, which reflects the outlook for the future or which could be deemed as forward-looking, may involve risks and uncertainties and are not subject to any review or procedures. Such statements or comments are not guarantees of future performance, and actual results may differ. Joining me on the call today are Lalit Keshre, Co-founder and CEO; Harsh Jain, Co-founder and COO; Neeraj Singh, Co-founder and CTO; Ishan Bansal, Co-founder and CFO; and Lalit Bhimani, Group Head, Finance.
With that, I now hand over the call to Lalit to share his opening remarks.
Hello, everyone. First of all, thank you so much for your belief in us. We started Groww more than nine years back to make investing simple, transparent, and delightful. Our philosophy has been to always build, always do right by the customer, keep building for them, create the best product experience. With that philosophy, we have got immense love from our customers, and we are super grateful to them. Although it has been more than nine years, we still feel that we are just starting our journey. Because this is our first quarterly call, I want to kind of touch very briefly on our product roadmap for the future. For the next few, many quarters, you will keep seeing us, I mean, keep listening to the same thing, same kind of themes.
The first thing is, as we see India, how we grow and how financial markets grow, your company will kind of continue spearheading this democratization of financial services in the country. Our obsession to build the best customer experience kind of will continue to kind of help us getting a lot more customers. That would be our highest priority going forward. As customers join us, they build their wealth. They continue buying more and more products. So far, we have built 10-plus products on the platform. The good thing is that there is a long roadmap in front of us, and we will continue building multiple products. With multiple products, customer engagement continues increasing, retention goes up. When customers love your product, monetization also follows.
We build the platform from the customer perspective, and that is what kind of also creates a pull for us. Lastly, with the brand that we have created and the deep investment in technology that we are doing, also create an enduring competitive advantage for your company. That is all I wanted to say today, but we will be very happy to answer your questions in this first quarterly call. Once again, thank you for joining us in this journey in building India's largest investing and wealth platform. Thank you.
Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask questions may click on the raise hand icon. Before asking the question to the management, please introduce yourself, providing your name and your organization name. Please limit yourself to a maximum of two questions so we can accommodate as many as possible. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. You may please click on the raise hand icon to ask questions. The first question is Prayesh Jain. Please accept the prompt on your screen. Unmute yourself, introduce yourself, and proceed to the question.
Yeah. Hi, everyone. This is Prayesh Jain from Motilal Oswal. I'm not a big head of numbers. Just firstly, a bookkeeping question on the orders that you've given. Can you split that up for us in terms of cash and derivatives? Second question is on the CAC, right? We've seen a significant increase in CAC, and how do you see this kind of progressing going ahead? I'm restricting to those two because we have the limit, right?
Thanks. Thanks, Prayesh. Let me take this question. I think we already showed our revenue split across derivatives and cash. If you look at the pricing, it is very simple. We charge INR 20 on the derivative side. The rest is on the cash. The split is actually very similar. Roughly, you can say 70-odd % will be on the derivative side, and 30-odd will be on the cash side. On the question on the CAC side, I think Harsh, you can answer.
Yeah. See, part of our growth, the cost to grow that we report, part of it is branding, which is a fixed cost, and some part of it is in the variable cost. If you see different quarters, the CAC will also be a result of how many new acquisitions happen in that particular time frame. Going forward, across the year, it then normalizes. There is variation quarter to quarter. You can see depending on the time and the situation in the market.
On an annual basis, do you think that we can what level we were in, say, FY 2025, right? Now that's completely gone away, and we will possibly be at a more higher number on an annual basis. What would be an annual number that we should think about from a CAC perspective? I understand that I think what you mentioned also that CAC should be looked from a full-year basis rather than just on a quarterly basis. From a full-year perspective, what should be the kind of CAC that we should think about from a I understand that additions would come as they are, but from an absolute spend perspective, what are you looking for?
It's difficult to predict for the future, but I would say that it's not going to be very different from the overall spends, are not going to be very different from the previous times. Acquisition overall numbers also depend on how the market conditions are.
Absolutely. Great. I'll come back and meet you. Thanks.
Thanks.
Thank you. We'll take the next question from Jayant Karote. Please accept the prompt, introduce yourself, and proceed with the question.
Thanks for the opportunity. Jayanth Karote from Axis Capital. Hey, Lalit, so two questions, both regarding lending. First one is on MTF. We have seen strong growth over here. I think given the number, the yield number is looking slightly higher than 15%. Is it an end-of-period issue? Is that a broader question? On MTF is the aggression by the competition, right? Over the last three months, it seems everybody's now jumped into this product. We have players offering it at 7.99% very aggressively. Both from a yield as well as a growth perspective, how should we think of the competitive landscape for MTF, not just for a quarter, but given our aspirations over the next two, three years, how should this, what is the strategy that you would use? That is the first question. I'll follow up with the second one.
Yeah. Let me take this one. I think MTF for us, the yield part that you talked about, I think will be again end of the quarter kind of a difference. Our pricing is simple. It is 14.95%. Other than that, the growth rate, I think it's not very, we don't see competition from an MTF perspective specifically because it is a second product typically that the customer is using. Before that, the customer is already there on stocks, and some of those customers actually start doing MTF as well. What we have seen in other products as well, the pricing is not the reason why customer chooses a platform A versus platform B. The experience is what matters to them. Over a period of time, typically, customers end up doing more and more products with the same platform.
The reason to selection can be different for different customers. In the end of the day, pricing is least of the concern when looking at the selection of the platform.
Okay. The second one is around LAS. You have started this product now. What is the experience? How is the run rate? How long do you want to wait before you press down the accelerator on this one? Or it will be a calibrated run rate of the kind that we are seeing for the past one month?
Last is very early stage today. If you look at LAS, it's actually not even fully LAS. It is just loaning its mutual funds as of now. Loaning its securities is yet to be launched. What we have seen is there are a lot of features and different, you can say, optimization on the product side yet to be done. I think as we keep on doing some of these features, the growth will keep on scaling up. We generally do not look at accelerating or something. Some of this is adoption from the customer perspective. As the customer's need on the LAS side keeps on increasing, this will kind of keep on going up. What is happening is this is an AUM product, very similar to MTF. When we started, MTF was also started almost more than a year back.
At that time, MTF also was going up slowly. Over a period of time, it has become larger. We think LAS also will take some time for us to kind of come to a product where the scale is larger. Hence, the growth rate of the disbursement will keep on happening.
Sorry, if I could just squeeze one supplementary sort of encapsulating these two points only. If you can give me a broader three-year outlook, where does your lending book look like?
is difficult to project again from a forward-looking perspective. What we have seen is, especially on the MTF side, our growth rate has been really good in the past. What we are expecting in the future is that we have a fair share that we want to kind of reach. It will take at least three years to probably reach there. The fair share is significantly higher than where we are today, probably like a double-digit number on the market side. It is not going to be like we are taking share from the market, but we think we will end up expanding the market by that amount itself.
You mean double-digit in terms of market share of MTF? Great. That is very helpful, Ishan. Thanks a lot and best of luck, guys.
Thank you. We'll take the next question from Nitesh Jain. Please accept the prompt, introduce yourself, and proceed with the question.
My name is Nitesh. I'm from Industric. I have two questions. Firstly, on the customer sourcing, can you share some breakup in terms of sourcing channel, whether it is organic referrals or performance marketing? Second question is on the revenue model in the wealth management, the equation that we have done and the plan that we have for the W app. What is the revenue model that we are thinking on the wealth management business?
Yeah, sure. I'll take the first one and I'll answer that, Nitesh. For us, organic is the biggest channel. I think we reported also almost 80% people come organically. The other channel is primarily the performance marketing, which is digital marketing that happens. A very small part of it is referral. We're not running a commercial referral, so it's more of a word of mouth through the app also. These are the three channels how we get the acquisition.
Just to confirm, 80% is still organic?
Yeah.
Sure. Great.
The second question, I think, Ishan?
Yeah. On the wealth side, I think we are very early today. We did the acquisition on the Fisdom side, which got the balance sheet consolidated as of 30 September. The P&L will start getting consolidated soon. Roughly 3% revenue is coming from that business. Obviously, that business is growing well. Over a period of time, the contribution will keep on increasing. There is a lot of integration yet to be done for us to kind of look at how actually it will perform in the future. We will come back to you in future quarters on the wealth side.
If you can explain the revenue model, it is distribution income or it is the?
Okay. On Fisdom side, it is largely distribution income coming across different four products primarily. One is regular mutual funds. Second is the PMS and AIF distribution. Third is insurance distribution. Fourth is on the unlisted security side.
Do you plan to carry on with a similar revenue model or do you think?
There are future products. Some of them are already launched. For example, we have launched a PMS of mutual funds recently. I think that part will obviously grow faster and will start contributing where effectively we are charging the customer for the advisory under the PMS route.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you. That's it from my side. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from Dipanjan Ghosh. Please accept the prompt on your screen. Unmute yourself, introduce yourself, and proceed with your question.
Hi. Am I audible?
Yes, sir. Please proceed.
Hi. Hi. Just a few questions from my side. First, in terms of the employee base and with the acquisition of Fisdom and probably your own ramp-up expectations on the wealth side of the journey, what sort of manpower and maybe the quality of personnel that will be required to deploy on that side of the business? In terms of that, how can the employee expenses really behave over, let's say, the next two to three years? That was the first question. The second question is, if I look at your active F&O customers, and that has remained around 1.4 million for at least the last two or three quarters, despite the fact that obviously new customer acquisition rendered is very strong.
In terms of when you do some analysis on your underlying customer segment and the new users who are coming onto the platform, in terms of the behavior of those customers or in terms of potential new customers who can be coming in on the F&O side, what sort of outlook do you really have out there?
Lilith, you want to take the wealth piece?
Yeah. Yeah. Dipanjan, I think wealth, as Ishan said, we'll be talking a lot more about in coming quarters. It's just getting started. All these kind of questions will become clearer. How we look at it is it will be more based on our DNA. It will be more tech-led and so on. As I said, we are still kind of the integration is happening. It would be an interesting kind of product to build. Your second question was on the F&O. Ishan, you want to answer this?
Yeah. On the F&O side, what is happening for us, especially after last year's regulation, is there is a churn in the users, which we saw specifically till Q4 last year. After that, there is a small growth rate. It is not showing up in millions, I think, but there is still a growth rate in users. The quality of the user is doing really well. If you look at the average order per user, it has significantly grown. Some of those numbers, you can look at it, will be kind of in the range of 10-20% growth on average order per user, which is primarily getting contributed because the high-quality users are still there on the platform, not only still there, but are actually growing.
The low-quality customers who were earlier placing significantly lesser number of orders and the turnover was also significantly lower is actually moving away from the platform, which we think is a good thing both for us as well as industry as it becomes more niche and will be only serving the high-quality customers who understand F&O as a product better.
Got it, Ishan. Just one small follow-up on the first question. If you can just quantify your employee count for Q2 of this year and last year. That's all. Thank you.
Lalit, you'll have that number, Bhimani? Lalit, you're on mute.
We have 832 core employees who are involved in product business building and about 300-odd employees who are doing our customer services. On the Fisdom side, we have acquired about 500-odd employees, which have come with part of the acquisition. Out of this 500, about approximately 180 are doing sales for Fisdom.
Got it, everyone. Thank you and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants that you may please click on the raise hand icon to ask questions. We'll take the next question from the line of Abhijit Sakkhare. Please accept the prompt. Introduce yourself and proceed with the questions.
Hey, hi. Good evening. I hope I'm audible.
Yes. Yes, sir.
My first question was that when I, based on the commentary, when I do some rough math, it looks like the annualized RPU of the customers that we've acquired in the last quarter is probably close to the past vintages. I just wanted to double-check if that observation is right. Secondly, the second question was that there was a number mentioned in the press release on the disbursements in the credit business. It's slightly different from what you've disclosed in the data book. I just wanted to double-check. In the data book, the disbursement number for credit growth credit serve was about INR 3,932 million. In the press release, it was somewhere close to about INR 1,500-odd million. I just wanted to clarify that as well.
Ishan, you're on mute.
Yeah, sorry. On the first question, I think, sorry, on the second question, I think we'll check the data and come back to you. My guess is the difference is between one is a PL number and another is an overall GCS number. That might be the difference. The other one will be like a last-related number. On the RPU side, actually, it's very difficult to look at RPU on a quarterly basis. We've seen that over a period of time, things change. Hence, we look at RPU on an annualized basis. You are right. The quality of the user that we are getting today looks similar to what we were getting earlier as well. It's not significantly different from in the past as well.
Got it. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from Sarkit Karan. Please accept the prompt. Introduce yourself and proceed with the question.
Yeah. Hi. Thank you, everyone, for giving me this opportunity. I'm an individual investor. My first question is, what is the expected contribution of Finvasia technology acquisition to Groww consolidated financials and the operation roadmap? That's it.
Currently, like I said, roughly their run rate from a revenue perspective is around 3%. On the contribution side, I think they're still negative, more closer to break even, but still negative. Hence, on the bottom line side, I don't think they will add anything to Groww as an overall platform. On the roadmap side, I think Lalit already talked about that there is still an integration that is happening between Fisdom and Groww. There are four products that Fisdom has. One is on the regular mutual fund advisory side. Second is on the distribution of AIF and PMS, insurance, and then unlisted securities. Recently, they have launched a PMS of mutual funds, which is also going very fast. Some of these products over time will start coming to Groww customers as well.
Thank you, Ishan. One more question I have. What are the major operational or regulatory risk management forces over the next two quarters? What are the steps that are being taken to mitigate them?
Lalit, Bhimani, you want to take it?
Sorry, I just lost the internet in between. Can you repeat the question?
Yeah, yeah. Sure, sure. What are the major operational or maybe regulatory risk management forces over the next two quarters? What steps are being taken to mitigate them?
From a regulatory standpoint, I think it is BAU for us. There's no specific risk which we are foreseeing.
Sarkit,
yeah.
Okay.
Thank you. Thank you, guys. Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from Anshuman Dev. Please accept the prompt. Introduce yourself and proceed with your question.
Yeah. Hi. Am I audible?
Yes, sir. Please proceed.
Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. This is Anshuman from ICICI Securities. My question is regarding your new users who are coming onto the platform. I see an increasing trend of new users using what you call SIP and MF portfolio, which is a successful diversification of your product. They lack that kind of monetization, right? Can it be a how are we mitigating this, what you call diversification of customers who may not be as monetizable at the start versus what was our core offering where it is monetizable in terms of broking? If you can just give a strategic roadmap of this new user, new product with less monetizable compared to the old users or the old product and the classical broking business. If you can just give your strategic roadmap of that.
Hey, Anshuman, I'll take this. I think we'll think a bit differently here, right? As I said, the way we look at it is that we are building India's largest investing and wealth platform, and there are multiple products. Some products will have different products have different monetization kind of methods, transaction-based and also some amount of PM-based and so on, right? That is how we look at it. We don't kind of design this way, "Okay, this is less monetized product, less monetized and more," and so on. We look more from the value proposition for the customer and also building the entire basket for the customer. We have to accept the fact that there will be some products that will be kind of there will be some products which either will have lower monetization or will be monetized in the future and so on.
I think the fundamental kind of way we think about it is building a very, very kind of customer-focused platform, building the entire kind of wealth of the customer there, keep building multiple products there, and keep building better and better experience for the customers. Then monetization follows.
Yeah, absolutely. No, I got a sense. I was just saying that you also mentioned the high quality of investors. I think we have seen in the system also that number of average size of trades have increased in the exchanges also, which is kind of reflective of your thing also. Any chance or any view on possible monetization of this mutual fund distribution? Because we seem to be one of the major movers and shakers when it comes to SIP, right? Anything on the horizon on that front?
Yeah. We'll share with you when we kind of come up with something, yeah? Primarily, yeah. We'll share with you if something happens.
Okay. Thanks a lot. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from Nitesh Jain. Please accept the prompt and proceed with the question.
I have a question on the lending business. The disbursements on a year-over-year basis have moderated. If I look at FY 2025 financials in the expense line item, there is, I think, credit loss of almost INR 70 crore. If I allocate to the unsecured book on your own balance sheet, that translates into 7% credit cost. Is this reading right that on your book that you have originated on your own balance sheet, the credit loss was around INR 70 crore on a book of INR 1,000 crore?
I think from a book perspective, I think we are more closer to 1,250-odd. Hence, this number is slightly lower in %. Some of these are variable in nature. We are still in a phase where we are stabilizing our book from a vintage perspective. This business is just three years old. We are closer to where I think it will get stabilized. We have seen, I think, from a cost of provisioning perspective, it has come off compared to the last quarter. That is how we think it looks more stabilized now compared to earlier.
What will be the strategy on using your own balance sheet for loans? Will you be focusing on unsecured loans going forward or?
The idea is to actually create a healthy mix between secured and unsecured. You can see in the last quarter itself, the secured business has grown much faster, both in disbursement as well as on the book side. I think that will keep on continuing in the coming quarters as well. We want to, in longer term, have a healthy mix of both of them.
Got it. For unsecured, it's a completely digital process. There is no physical process in terms of collections or underwriting.
Collection, obviously, is a mix of digital and physical. On the disbursement side, it is 100% digital. That's how we operate both on book as well as on the distribution side.
Sure. Thank you. That's it from my side.
The next question is from Aman Tukker. Please accept the prompt. Introduce yourself and proceed with the question.
Hi, everyone. I'm Aman Tukker. I'm from Nomura Bank. Congratulations on a great set of numbers. I just wanted to have some data-keeping questions. I just wanted to know, as of H1F5, what is your loan book size for the personal loans? And what is your LAS book size?
Lilith, do you want to answer? Bhimani?
Our personal book size is INR 1,140 crore. Our last book is about INR 60 crore.
Just to follow up, what has been your AMC revenue this quarter?
That will be very small.
That's it. Thank you.
It is about INR 17.99 million. Very insignificant at this stage.
Okay.
Thank you. We'll take the next question from Nargendra Maurya. Please accept the prompt. Introduce yourself and proceed with the question. Mr. Maurya, please proceed. As there is no response, we will move on to the next question, which is from Bhuvnesh Garg. Please accept the prompt. Introduce yourself and proceed with your question, sir.
Yeah. Hopefully, I'm audible.
Yes, you're audible.
Thank you for the opportunity. A couple of questions from my side. Firstly, on your cost to serve. If I see quarter-on-quarter basis, the cost to serve has declined, whereas our number of orders and other business metrics have improved. If you can just elaborate on what has led to this decline.
Cost to serve has actually two components. One is on the technology cost side, and the second is on the transaction-related cost. I think the transaction-related cost would have still increased, but our technology-related cost actually has come off. We have done some optimizations in the last quarter, which has helped us to reduce this cost. We've been kind of running at a significantly higher capacity just to maintain good, you can say, uptime for our customers. Hence, there is still an opportunity to optimize some of these costs in the future.
Sure, sure. Understood. The second thing is on revenue per order. If I see tickets have also increased on a quarter-on-quarter basis. Did we take any pricing action in the last quarter? What is the reason for this increase?
There is a mix of multiple, I think, three reasons. One is the average ticket size helps us increase the revenue per order. The second thing is the pricing action, one we took in June last year, June this year, was fully baked in this quarter. The third is basically the mix between how cash and derivatives kind of business changes. That also kind of changes the revenue per order for us.
Sure, sure. Thank you. Just on your advertisement and customer acquisition cost, if you can just give the breakup into advertisement and customer acquisition cost, and how do we see this trend going forward? Advertisement separately and then customer acquisition cost separately.
Yeah. We do not look at the cost like this. We look at the cost to Groww as a consolidated cost of every activity that we do. I mean, they are not done across; they are done when there is an opportunity. The right way for us to look at the customer acquisition cost is whatever we spend for the marketing activities, we use that and divide that by the new customers that come in during the timeframe. That becomes our cost to Groww and CAC.
Sure. Any particular target you have? Any advertisement campaign you are planning to run, I mean, in coming days or anything of that sort?
No. As of now, I mean, we keep on doing these activities. As soon as there's an opportunity, we participate in that.
Sure. Sure. Just the last question, if you can share the data on number of demat accounts that we have as of September or as of June.
We actually don't track the demat account number. I think we feel that's not the right metric to look at because customers who don't transact is very difficult to kind of retain as well. The customer who's transacting with us is a right customer to look at.
Okay. Okay. Understood. That's it from my side. Thank you very much for your time.
Yeah. Have a good day.
Thank you. The next question is from Mayank Agarwal. Please accept the prompt. Introduce yourself and proceed with the question, sir.
Yeah. Hi. Hope I am audible.
Yes, you're audible.
Okay. Thanks. Hi, Mayank here from ThreatControl Fund. Thanks, team, for giving me the opportunity. First of all, great set of numbers. I also appreciate what you guys have done in a short span of time in terms of technology, in terms of platform, in terms of revolutionary product you have created. You are still young. You have enough firepower in terms of cash in your bank account and also capital assets, technology assets, and whatnot. I just wanted your view to what are your plans, I mean, your plans in the next two-three years? What do you want to do next? Is it putting something same what you are doing? What could be the opportunity for you? What's your major vision for the next two-three years? Definitely in Groww, not outside. What do you want to grow?
What do you want to do in Groww? That's my question.
Okay. Mayank, so I'll answer this. See, in general, Mayank, our philosophy has been kind of pick products which customers want and then kind of be super focused on them, spend a lot of time with these products, craft the best customer experience, and then kind of keep building. If you look at our history also of last nine and a half years, this is how we have done. We don't launch everything in one go and so on. Next two to three years, I think we are kind of super focused on a few of the products that we have taken up. As one big data point that we are seeing, and we have also elaborated in our documents earlier, a lot of our customers now are kind of becoming affluent, and they need wealth management.
Wealth management is going to be a big game for us going forward. Of course, Groww kind of will continue kind of focusing and continue growing that. In Groww also, there are a bunch of products that we are kind of launching. As Ishan spoke about MTF, right, which is a relatively new product. Again, a lot more products need to build there. Commodities, we just launched a few months back. That is going on. In general, this is the philosophy: remain focused. We have a long list of products that we'll continue launching. For this time that you asked about, we are kind of focused on these set of products.
Thanks a lot. Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from Pratyush Agarwal. Please accept the prompt. Introduce yourself and proceed with the question.
Hi. This is Pratyush from Marshall Race. Thank you for the opportunity. Can I please ask, similar to your comment on the MTF book where you feel there is a fair market share that is yet to be tapped, could you also speak about generally in Groww? Obviously, you've done a great job over the last five to seven years. From here, do you think there is still a lot of fair share, market share to be gained? Do you think now an incremental unit of market share gain will be much lesser, slower, or difficult compared to the past?
The incremental market share for us is already higher than our kind of current market share. Hence, we are confident that it can keep on growing, at least in the near future. Obviously, there will be a time at which we'll come to both these numbers will come close to each other, and it will become difficult to increase the market share on the user side that I'm talking about. Second, on the user side itself, our users are still young. They are still growing in their life. Hence, order per user or even size of the order, etc., are growing. I think we can keep on seeing that growth happening in the future as well, which will help us increase our market share on the cash EDTO as well as derivative EDTO. The third thing is on the penetration side.
Some of the products like MTF, commodities, etc., where the penetration still on our customer base is very low. Hence, as the penetration also keeps on growing, the market share on those products will actually grow much faster because the penetration will be a much larger growth rate factor than the growth of the customer as well.
Got it. Thank you. If I could also ask, in the mix of Total Income, what do you think happens between derivatives and cash going forward in terms of mix?
Derivatives already has come off from earlier numbers. I think it will probably come off further as well. The reason is, one, we are seeing a lot of growth in the other segments, especially cash is growing really fast. Mix of MTF is also helping cash grow because the brokerage part is counted in cash. We have recently launched commodities. I think we think that will also start contributing a significant part of our working revenue in the coming future. Hence, the equity derivative piece will get more diversified.
Got it. Do you have some number in mind where you feel comfortable that you are at the mix that you're thinking in a couple of years?
I think it is beyond 50. Definitely, it can come below 50. That is like an output number, the way to look at, where if everything else goes or grows faster, this definitely can come off. Some of this will happen because wealth will start contributing, commodities will start contributing. Just as a way to kind of squeeze the 100% into other products will also reduce this 57% in the coming quarters.
Got it. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from Mohit Surana. Please accept the prompt. Introduce yourself and proceed with the question.
Hi. Just two questions from my side. One is that when I reverse calculate the order pricing for cash orders are now touching high teens. Once we kind of reach our fair share, which we are envisaging on the MTF side, what could per order pricing on the cash order look like? Second is that since a lot of water has flowed through after the Tuku results, could you give us more recent trends of how the MTF book is shaping up?
Got it. On the first one, the way I think you are right that as the MTF proportion will go up, the yield will go up. Yield has other factors also, like order size. The third factor is also on today, it includes our DP-related charges as well. Hence, how much of the sell versus buy happening also kind of contribute to that. It's very difficult to actually put a number to it, but we think every quarter, if MTF today is contributing somewhere around 3%-4% of this brokerage, as the percentage goes up, this number will keep on going up. If it doubles, then probably today, because of MTF, I think INR 2 is getting added. Hence, every 2%-3% add in MTF will have another INR 2 added to the revenue on the revenue side.
In terms of penetration, right?
In terms of MTF-related EDTO in cash.
Got it. Could you also talk about the MTF book accretion past the Tuku, at least qualitatively, how it's shaping up?
It is, again, growing. Kind of difficult to see a number middle of the quarter because it's actually relatively variable depending on the day you are looking at it as well. On a Friday, it will behave differently versus on a Monday as well because people try to optimize cost between weekends. Hence, the quarter-end number will be probably a better way to look at it.
Got it. Accretion will be in line with what we saw in the Tuku, right? Tuku should largely be in line with that?
Difficult to kind of give a comment on that.
Got it. Appreciate that. Thanks a lot and all the best.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will be taking last two questions for today. The next question is from Prayesh Jain. Please accept the prompt and proceed with the question.
Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity again. I think looking at the disbursement by partners, now that piece of the business actually for the industry has been doing some decent growth in Q2. If you look at any other player, but for us, there is a decline there. Any thoughts there as to what caused that and how did we kind of see the traction going ahead?
There are multiple reasons, I think, that went through an up and down in some ways. One is obviously the bucket-related reasons where there was concern on unsecured lending itself. The second piece actually was more specific to us where we actually created a separate app for credit business. As we were moving customers from our existing product to that, there was a transition period which led to that drop for an intermittent time.
Do you expect this to kind of recover and kind of gain traction going ahead?
Again, it is already doing recovering from that perspective, but when and how it will happen is yet to be seen.
Got that. If I look at your, if I divide your EDTO by the number of orders or multiply by that, I'm still not getting an increase in the value per order, right? Is the MTF contributing to the major increase in the realizations in that segment only in this quarter? That is not visible in the numbers at least right now.
Yeah. Quarter on quarter, you are right. I think the order size is almost the same. It is more related to two things. I think one is the pricing piece that we discussed, and the second is the MTF piece.
Okay. Just last question is MTF again. As you were explaining, almost INR 2 that added to the realizations from the MTF is on the book, right? You must have a churn on it, right?
Roughly today, MTF as a percentage of cash EDTO is around 3-4%. Because the pricing on MTF is different, it is adding to INR 2 of realization extra per order.
Got that. Okay. Thanks. That is good.
Thank you. This will be the last question for today from the line of Jayanth Karote. Please accept the prompt and proceed with the question.
Thanks for the opportunity again. Just one specific question on commodities. How is the traction? What is the number of users that are using this product right now? Specific to this, what is the behavior that we are seeing? Are we gaining market share since we recently opened up this product, meaning our users may have used other platforms for this one? Is this market share coming back, or are we seeing adoption of this product for first-time users? Going ahead, is the latter going to be the thrust area for us?
Already, I think we are seeing a good growth. We had a DTU of around 20,000-30,000 also happening on this product. I think this will keep on growing in the future as well. Where the customer is coming from is a mix of both. I think some of the customers have been using commodities outside of Groww, I think, but that is a smaller number today compared to the first-time customers. I think first-time customers is already a bigger component. We think that will obviously become a larger reason for the growth in the future. Not only growth for us, but growth for the industry as well.
Do you think your market share over here as well needs to be reflective of your overall market share? How fast do you think you can reach there?
Definitely. I think we think everywhere we should reach to our kind of fair share sooner than later. Again, we feel in commodities, it can happen faster because it's more of a transaction business compared to MTF, which is more of a book business. Hence, I think commodities probably will reach to the fair share sooner.
Just following up on this one, can you just tell us what are the qualitative steps that you can take to increase adoption of a certain product? Let's say in commodities in this case, which will also help us understand as a platform if you want to drive. Again, we understand you don't want to drive the customers towards any product. If you again want to expose the customer to newer products, what are the qualitative steps that you take?
Yeah. Jayant, see, I think again, we are building a more pull-based platform. Customers kind of, we enable the discovery, which is very well. Customers find what they are looking for. We avoid any push. In general, the culture that we have set is we do not talk about this. There are no purpose incentive for any product manager or any person in the company. It is our job to enable very, very seamless discovery for the customer, and then customers kind of figure out.
Do you help enable communities' formation around products?
No, we don't.
Great. Thank you. That's all for today.
Thank you so much.
Thank you. As that was the last question for today, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Thank you and over to you, sir.
Thank you, everyone, for joining the call today. Appreciate the comments and the questions that we received. Look forward to further discussions and conversations on this. Please feel free to reach out to either of us via the email that we've shared on our IR website. Thank you so much once again.
Thank you, members of the management. On behalf of Groww, that concludes this conference. We thank you for joining us, and you may exit the meeting now. Thank you.
Thank you so much. Thank you, everyone.