Q3 23/24

Feb 13, 2024

Quarterly report

Summary

Record 9M FY24 results included 31% revenue growth and 42% PAT growth, with a ₹23,592 crore order book. Management expects 20%–25% revenue growth near term, backed by naval projects and expansion into commercial shipbuilding.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I welcome all of you to the analyst and brokers meet of Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers Limited, to discuss the financial results and the performance of Q3 and nine-month FY 2024. We have with us Commodore PR Hari, Indian Navy retired, Chairman and Managing Director of GRSE, Shri RK Dash, Director of Finance and CFO, and Shri Sandip Mohapatra, Company Secretary. We will begin the conference with Commodore PR Hari's opening remarks, following which we will have the Q&A session. Commodore Hari, sir, may I request you to come up and give the opening remarks? Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Can you hear me at the back? Okay, thank you. We are meeting almost after one year. I met most of you about a year back. What is interesting is I've just come from Kolkata, and the traffic difference between Kolkata and Mumbai. There, the traffic moves. Of course, it moves at snail's pace. Here, it just doesn't move. I was staying at the MDL Guest House, and it took almost half an hour for me to reach here. Sorry to keep you waiting, in case you have been waiting for long. I welcome you all to the conference to discuss the financial performance of GRSE for the quarter ending and the nine-month ending 31st December 2023. I'm sure you have been keeping track of the company's performance for a very long time and have been associated with us, either through physical interactions like what we did last year, or through the virtual meets that we have every quarter. What I have planned is, I will give you an overview of the company's financial performance, the physical performance that has translated into the financial performance, our current order book position, how we plan to execute the current orders, and what is in store for all of us for future. This is the track I plan to take today. For the record, for a seventh quarter on the trot, our financial parameters have been on an upward trend. Again, for the quarter ending 31st December 2023 and the nine-month period ending the same date, we have recorded the best ever results in the history of the company. Our revenue from operations for the nine-month period touched INR 2,576 crores, which is almost 31% increase over the corresponding period of the last nine months for FY 2023. A similar increase in total income, 34% rise. EBITDA touched INR 367 crores with a 41% rise. The PAT, 42% rise at INR 245 crores. In a nutshell, the company's performance financially has been good as what we perceive. Now coming to what is translated into this performance. Our current order book stands at INR 23,592 crores as on 31st December. Most of this comes from the shipbuilding sector, with limited contribution from the ship repairs and our other verticals like the portable steel bridges and so on. This INR 23,592 crore order book comprises of four projects that we are executing for the Indian Navy. The three-ship P17 Alpha project, the four-ship Survey Vessel (Large) project, the eight-ship Anti-Submarine Warfare Shallow Water Craft project, and the four-ship Next Generation Oceangoing Patrol Vessel project. During the last year, we have delivered two platforms. That is, one, the first of the four Survey Vessel (Large) that we are constructing for the Indian Navy. This was delivered during the last quarter itself. We delivered it on 4th of December 2023. For a record, this is the largest-ever survey vessel built in our nation. This ship was subsequently commissioned during February this year. Last month, the ship was commissioned into the Indian Navy. In addition to that, we had delivered an ocean-going passenger cum cargo vessel to the government of Guyana. This ship was delivered and commissioned on 23rd of April 2023. So these were the two platforms that we have delivered. In addition to that, last year, in shipbuilding, as during our early interactions I have mentioned, launch of a ship is a milestone event where after a certain amount of physical progress is achieved and the ship takes its complete form, the ship is put to water, after which the outfitting commences. Last year, I would like to term it as the year of launches. We have launched seven platforms during the last year, last 9 months period, including the last of the P17 Alpha ships. This ship was launched by the Honorable President of India on 17th of August 2023. I will just quickly cover the status of the ongoing projects so that you have clarity on where we stand with respect to each of the projects. Coming to the P17 Alpha project, it's a three-ship project. The first ship is currently at around 66% of physical progress. The second P17 Alpha ship is at 55%, and the third ship, what I just mentioned, was launched on 17th of August, is currently at around 43% of physical progress. The delivery plan of this ship is as follows. We intend delivering the first ship during mid of 2025. That is August 2025 is the target for delivery of the first ship, and the second ship would be February 2026, and the third ship by August 2026. This is the delivery plan for these ships, and currently, we are on schedule. Coming to the Survey Vessel (Large) project, I had mentioned that the first ship was delivered last year. The second, third, and fourth ships are now getting readied for delivery with the first of these three ships already at the harbor trials phase. We intend sending the ship for sea trials in the coming month. My appreciation for delivery of the ship would be May, June this year. Thereafter, by December, we'll be delivering the second of the remaining three ships and the last vessel early next year, the first half of 2025. It may spill over to the beginning, the first quarter of FY 2026, which means we intend delivering it around April, May 2025. Coming to the Anti-Submarine Warfare Shallow Water Craft project, just to inform you, this is an eight-ship project that we are executing, and the fifth and sixth ships of this project were launched yesterday. We did the launch of these two ships yesterday. Of the four ships that were launched earlier, one of them, the first of the ships, is currently at the harbor trials phase, akin to the survey vessel that I mentioned. We intend delivering this ship by June this year. And thereafter, every 6 months, one ship of this project will come out. This project, Anti-Submarine Warfare Shallow Water Craft project, we expect to complete by mid of 2026. Physical progress, I will just state that the first ship is currently at around 77%, second ship at around 62%, and so on till the third ship is at almost 60, same 62%, and the last ship, the eighth ship, is at around 20% physical progress. The fourth project that we are executing is the Next Generation Oceangoing Patrol Vessel. It's a 4-ship project. The contract was signed on 30th of March 2023. We have made good headway in this project, and we have started production of all the 4 ships and all 4 of them, we have actually started a strategy by which we are doing concurrent construction of all 4 instead of going sequential. All the 4 ships are currently at around 10% of physical progress. This project is expected to be completed by FY 2028. What I'm trying to say is that the delivery of these vessels will commence from 2026, thereafter every 6 months, and it'll go on till early 2028. In addition to these 4 projects that we are executing for the Navy, we are also executing a project for the government of West Bengal that is a fully electric vessel. When delivered, that will be the largest in terms of passenger capacity to be built in India. The vessel has already been launched, currently undergoing the river trials. We intend delivering this vessel to the government of West Bengal next month. That is April, we'll be delivering this vessel. Again, for you to understand, at this juncture, among the players who manufacture green vessels, we call them green vessels, Cochin Shipyard is there. They are slightly ahead of us, and with this delivery, we are very confident of catching up with them and even surpassing them because there is good market potential in this segment. In addition to that, we have also been declared L1 for an oceanographic research vessel for the Ministry of Earth Sciences. This is an approximately an INR 840 crore order. The LOI has already been issued, and we expect to sign the contract during March itself. We also been declared L1 for an autonomous platform for the Ministry of Defence, DRDO. This is a small order. But then again, why I'm highlighting this is anything which is today being developed in this field of autonomous platforms has got market potential. This is a very small, very low-value order. It's around INR 20 crores. For them, it is only a technology demonstrator, but the opportunities in this field are galore because both the Navy and the Coast Guard are looking for autonomous platforms in future. We are also coming to the other segments. One of our areas of focus has been exports. As you are aware, we have so far delivered 2 defence platforms, earlier to government of Mauritius way back in 2014, and as late as 2021, another platform was delivered for Seychelles. We have been declared L1 again through a global tender for a dredger for the government of Bangladesh. Still in liquid form, the contract is yet to be signed. The L1 declaration has happened. We expect considering their Government change, recent government change. We expect the contract to be signed in another 3 months. We have also been declared L1 again for the government of Bangladesh through a defense line of credit for a tug, ocean-going tug. Both these orders, the value could be between INR 150 crores to INR 200 crores each. Just why I am stating this is, though the value is not much, these are exports. Our area of focus for exports has been, one, within the defense segment, second, in the IOR region, especially friendly foreign nations. Now with the market having been opened up for commercial shipbuilding, when we expressed our interest in joining the bandwagon, several Scandinavian nations and also clients from Germany has approached us. Hopefully whenever we interact next during the, I presume we will be interacting again after the quarter, I should be able to convey the happy news to you that by the time we expect to conclude some commercial shipbuilding orders. Despite orders on the anvil in these segments that I have mentioned, our primary focus would continue to be on warship building, because that is where the order value exists. I will just give you a glimpse of what is in store, and this is also a follow-up of what I mentioned last year. The major orders that are on the anvil. One would be from the Indian Navy, the Next Generation Corvettes. We expect the RFP to come out by June, July this year. June or July this year, the RFP. We stand a very good chance of winning this contract. It is a high-value contract, total order value, the AP value, AoN value has been INR 36,000 crores. It is an eight-ship project split between the L1 and L2 shipyards at five is to three. That is five ships to the L1 shipyard and L2 shipyard getting three. The stakes here are high. There are four shipyards shortlisted for this. We stand a good chance for winning this. We will be bidding aggressively to win this order, because this is one of our areas of specialization. To place on record that all the corvettes right now operating for the Indian Navy are built by GRSE. So that is the kind of expertise and experience that we have in building corvettes. The next project that is on the anvil would be the Next Generation Survey Vessels. This is a five-ship project. Approximate order value, the government has already given an AoN. Approximate order value would be around INR 3,000 crores. This RFP is expected to come during the second quarter of the current financial year. Since the AoN has been already accorded and it is only a follow-on of the vessels that we are already constructing, the RFP would not get delayed as per our appreciation. Here again, definitely we stand a good chance because we are right now constructing Survey Vessels (Large). The next RFP that is likely to come out is for two multipurpose vessels. This is again for the Indian Navy. The order value could be to the tune of around INR 1,200 crores. In addition to that, there is another project which is on the anvil, which we are bidding aggressively, we are pursuing aggressively, is for the P17 Bravo project. The Navy has got a requirement for seven more of these vessels. At this juncture, we don't have clarity as to when the Navy would be, because the AoN for this has not yet been taken. Our appreciation is that this could be early next year, that is early 2025. Another high-value project could be the landing platform dock, LPDs. This has been going on for the last 10 years almost. We are also hoping that it will see the light of the day, but because the value is high, the order value is high. Even if Navy goes for two of them, the order value could be to the tune of around INR 40,000 crores. In addition, Coast Guard is going to come up. They have not yet taken an AON. Our understanding is that they will be getting an AON during the first quarter of FY 2025 for five more ocean-going patrol vessels. They have just placed order on Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited for six of them. So five more ocean-going patrol vessels. The RFP is likely to come out during the first quarter of FY 2025. In addition, I will just give you a glimpse of what more, but 120 fast intercept crafts for the Indian Navy, one hospital ship for the Indian Navy, 22 follow-on water jet FACs, that is Fast Attack Crafts for the Indian Navy. My appreciation, the RFPs would come out only during early, that is the first quarter of FY 2026. This is an overview of what is the order book, what we have, and what are the orders on the anvil, which is available in the market. Right now, you may have seen the corporate movie of GRSE. What has been indicated is that our shipbuilding capacity is for concurrent construction of 20 warships. We have felt over the last three to four years that there is a need to increase this capacity. We have already started the process, and as a first step, before investing capital on our own infrastructure, we went with the lease strategy. So three dry docks we have taken over from our neighbors, the Syama Prasad Mookerjee Port, and they are being effectively utilized and earmarked for ship repairs. In addition, we are looking at one more dry dock from Kolkata port, that is Syama Prasad Mookerjee Port, which we would like to earmark for shipbuilding. In addition, two of the facilities in GRSE, in our captive facility, is getting refurbished. The aim is to enhance our shipbuilding capacity from concurrent construction of 20 warships to 24 warships, and we intend achieving this target by calendar year 2025. One of our focus areas has been new technology adaption, and as I had mentioned, development of autonomous platforms, both in surface, subsurface, and also, of course, in the aerial mode, is the area which the government is focusing on, and so are the armed forces. We have already started, and in these three fronts, that is autonomous platforms, we are tied up with startups and two of our products have already been successfully launched, an unmanned surface vessel and also an underwater surface platform. The underwater surface platform, we had carried out user trials with the Indian Army. They wanted certain modifications, which are being presently undertaken. We intend productionalizing this underwater platform by end of this calendar year. As far as the surface platform is concerned, already we have got an development order from DRDO, which we intend completing by April, that is next month. The coming month. Commercial shipbuilding, I have already mentioned. I am now giving you a glimpse of what we are looking at. Commercial shipbuilding, we are serious about it, and our appreciation, many of the negotiations are in final stages. Our appreciation is that we will be concluding contracts for commercial shipbuilding within a period of 3 months. Ship repairs is an area which we had started focusing just about 2 years back. It is with that intent of developing shipbuilding, ship repairs, that we took over three dry docks. Almost 100% occupancy is there. But so far, we have been doing small refits of Indian Coast Guard. Actually, the entire eastern region requirements of Coast Guard are being met by us. Still, I would not state that we are fully mature as a ship repair entity. Target is 2025, with a couple of orders likely to come from the Indian Navy, high-value orders. We also have a business vertical, which you are aware of, portable steel bridges. We are the market leader, Indian market leader, in this segment. Of course, the market share itself, overall market itself is pretty modest. Right now, we are around 65%. We own around 65% of the market share. This division is doing well because we have a running MoU with the Border Roads Organisation, where for over 75 bridges, of which almost 40 have already been completed. We also executed an order for the government of Bangladesh for these bridges through DLOC. That is a Defence Line of Credit. We have this year launched another product in this segment. That is a 5.3-meter carriageway Bailey bridge, which is a proprietary item of GRSE, and this would give us a head start to meet the requirements of the national highways. Basically, 5.3 meters is the carriage width of a highway. So this would help us gain further headway in this segment. Our USP is our product diversity, and we have our products ranging from warships to weapons. Why I am telling weapons is last year we had forayed into gun manufacturing, and we got an order from the Indian Navy for 30mm Naval Surface Gun. Order value is around INR 250 crores. Navy has now shown interest in enhancing the order value. Coast Guard has also shown interest. This is one vertical which we would like to nurture. As I had mentioned, our current order book stands at INR 23,592 crores. Our target would be to maintain similar order value. That is order book value of plus INR 23,000 crores to INR 25,000 crores in the coming years too. That is the reason why we would be going aggressive to win orders, more orders from the Indian Navy and of course from the other segments. I have finished. I will just give you an overview of where we currently stand, how we plan to move ahead in the coming years. I am all open for questions, if any. Hi, sir. Hi, sir. Sir, thank you so much for the presentation. All investors have benefited tremendously by being invested in GRSE. I am Keshav Harlalka from BHH Securities. Am I audible? You are audible, but your voice is slightly distorted. Okay. Is it better now? It is better. Yeah, sir. You are giving me so many warships you are delivering over so many time periods. Is there a way you can give us this on timeline, that this is the timeline, this year, this quarter, these many warships will be delivered, this quarter, this many. It is very in an orderly fashion. And what is the value of the warship and what is the approximate margin? If you could give us some sense of that, the entire presentation will be in a better flow because somewhere it is 26, somewhere it is 24. If you could give us some timeline on an Excel sheet or something, or even verbally, that would be very helpful, sir. Thank you. See, I will only talk about the orders that we are currently executing. Yes, sir. In FY 2025, we will be delivering two Survey Vessel (Large), two Anti-Submarine Warfare Shallow Water Craft. What would be the approximate And- quarter in which, first quarter, second quarter, third quarter, and the approximate value of each of the vessels? I can give an indicative Indicative, approximate. Yeah. I can naturally give an indicative. In the first quarter of FY 2025, we will be delivering one Survey Vessel (Large) and one Anti-Submarine Warfare Shallow Water Craft. One minute, sir. See, very interesting. We have these project reviews by Navy. All our projects, Navy conducts quarterly reviews. This is exactly the same question they ask. I try and give this, and then they insist, "You give me the date. When are you going to deliver this ship?" Then I give them a band. I will give you a band of delivery. The first quarter, one ASW shallow water craft and a survey vessel. In the second quarter, nothing, because the ships are not at that stage of this thing. In the third quarter, one Survey Vessel (Large), that is the second of the three remaining. And in the fourth quarter, one Anti-Submarine Warfare Shallow Water Craft, which means two Anti-Submarine Warfare Shallow Water Crafts and two survey vessels during the current financial year. In addition to that, we will also be delivering the Next Generation Electric Ferry to the government of West Bengal in the first quarter of FY 2025. I don't think you will be really interested in the small projects like that small unmanned surface vessel, because they are only of academic interest and the order value is miniscule. Correct. Also one order for the government of Bangladesh, for patrol boats. Not much order value. It is only our presence there. For your interest, two Survey Vessels (Large), two Anti-Submarine Warfare Shallow Water Craft. What would be the approximate value of each of the vessels' revenues, what would get in the company books? Approximate? Approximate value, what would come in as revenue for us when we deliver the vessels. Or is it as we build, do we bill it to the client? Absolutely. Do we bill it to our books? Absolutely, because in shipbuilding, the revenue accrual is incremental as we execute the project. Okay. I will give you an example. The Survey Vessel (Large), which I stated that Survey Vessel (Large) order value is INR 511 crores per ship. Right now the ship is around 82%, 83% of physical progress, which means I would have already accrued most of its INR 450 odd crores. I would already accrued. So what you are trying to ask, you may not get a clear answer if I- I got it, sir. unless I correlate it with the physical progress. Delivery, as far as you are concerned, in terms of revenue accrual, it's of no. I'll put it in a different fashion. I understand what you're trying to ask. What kind of growth are we looking at in terms of revenue and over the next 2-3 years is what I'm broadly asking. Yeah, I think that's in my throat would have been better. Okay. Let me just get my thoughts clear. We were around INR 1,756 crores in FY 2022. In FY 2023, we went to INR 2,561 crores. In FY 2024, 9 months we already touched INR 2,577 odd crores, which means we already surpassed the last year's. Okay. Now that we are halfway into the thing, we should be touching plus INR 3,000 crores during the current financial year. Now, the big-ticket items of this INR 23,792 crores is a P17 Alpha project. The P17 Alpha project is a INR 19,000 plus, INR 19,293 or something, INR 293 crore project. And the first ship has just touched 65%, the second ship is at 54%, and the third ship is at 45%. The first ship has got still room before she touches around 75% to give more revenue to the company. The second and third ship are actually going to touch the peak. Now, considering that as a situation, for the moment, I'm just discounting the CHUTKU project. That is the ASW and Survey Vessel. Between the P17 Alpha alone and supported by the other two projects, we should be giving us a revenue growth of plus 25%, around 20%-25%, at least for the next 3 years. You are looking at broadly INR 3,800 crore-INR 4,000 crore for FY 2024, 2025 and say INR 5,000 crore for FY 2025, 2026. At least one year. In my initial thing, I had mentioned that the current order book, excluding what is likely to come, that is for anybody to guess, the current order book will finish by FY 2028. You are guiding at 25% CAGR growth for next four years, sir? Broadly. Yes. Can you look at that? Next 2 years. Next 2 years. Next 2. Next 2 years, 25% CAGR growth. Got it. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you. Normally this question is asked a little later towards the end. The next question somewhere it will come about margins. This is Rohit Natarajan from Antique Stock Broking. My first question is, this year the awarding from Navy was a little bit low. The Next Generation Corvette has been there for some time. We have been talking about it, but the awarding seems to be a bit on a slower side. What exactly is the reason? See, the government revised the Defence Procurement Procedure, DAP, in 2020. As per the policy, from the time an AoN is obtained, to the time the RFP is issued, there is a 30-month slack, 30-month period. We have been pushing Navy has been pushing themselves, Ministry has been pushing Navy. All put together, our current appraisal, we are keeping very close track of the particular project. Our appreciation, as I mentioned, the RFP is likely to come out in June, July this year. Does that answer your question? Yeah. Officially they are well within the time because June, July will come to around 26 months. 26 or 27 months. They are well within the time, but they need the ships. We need orders also. They are pushing themselves. The case is being processed on a fast track as the statement of technical requirements are ready. Now it is only the process, which now we are in March end, so I expect around 3 months more. June, July it could come out. The reason why I ask you this question is the other two big shipyards, they are now also keen to explore small ticket orders because there seems to be some sort of a slowdown in order inflows, and now they are looking at low-value platforms as well. See. There are six of us. Four different shipyards, Cochin Shipyard and L&T. Right now, all of us have got reasonable amount of orders. That desperation has not yet come in. For projects like the Next Generation Corvettes, Indian Navy does a capacity assessment and the eligible shipyards are decided on certain conditions. I think I had mentioned before, for the NGC there will be only four players in the game. Four shipyards and also the order being split between two. I think even if you take simple probability factors also, we stand a very good chance. Got it, sir. My next question is that you talked about the capacity augmentation to 24 vessels by FY 2025, and currently you can do platforms of almost 20 vessels at this point in time. But you also made something closer to the closing remarks. You said your order backlog, you want to keep it INR 240 billion, INR 235 billion. But you are adding up capacity as well. Do you think, is that some sort of a conservative message you are sending out? Do you want to add more order backlog? Want to go up much more higher from the current levels? Is there something of that sort that you have in mind? I will explain. In shipbuilding, the major assets are the dry docks and the building berths where the initial construction of ship is carried out, where the occupancy period is long. That is called the pre-launch phase. Once that is complete, the ships come out and get onto the jetties and berths where the outfitting happens. Our intent of increasing the capacity, one, was at no point should we be found wanting in case more orders come. Second, we will not let this enhanced capacity idle because the way we look at it, I had mentioned with confidence that we will be getting commercial shipbuilding orders. That is one place where we just cannot afford to slip a date. We did not want to land up in a situation wherein we have orders and we do not have capacity to do it. Third, even when we had a capacity of 20 ships, even at that point of time to facilitate the concurrent construction, we had gone in for a partnership with the private shipyards, and it's a very successful partnership. It's all open source information, nothing confidential about it. We had partnered with a major Indian private shipyard. Three of our ships for part construction, very effective. All the ships are back in GRSE premises right now getting readied. So capacity is not a constraint. Why enhancement is to cater for more and more load. Now, coming to the figure which you had mentioned, I myself had mentioned that our intent at this moment is to. I use the term at this moment, because let us take NGC project, which is the first big ticket thing that is going to come from the Navy. The order would come, again in a conservative, will come only by mid of 2025. From mid of 2025 for the revenue to start coming in, it'll be 2026 end, because the initial period, not much revenue comes in. It's only the design, preparatory work, order placement for equipment, and all. That is the reason I mentioned that we would like to maintain. Once that happens, and let us take a situation. Suppose if we are getting P17 Bravo, then the entire game changes. So let us hope for that. Got it. Sir, my final question will be on why did you avoid Next Generation Destroyer in your prospect market? Is destroyer out of your bandwidth as such to be done? Is GRSE really thinking about destroyer or maybe such advanced vessels on cards? In today's scheme of things, what was earlier called as a corvette, because I've served in corvettes, and I have now built corvettes also. I will just build up to what you're trying to ask. So because what was called as a corvette was just about 70 meters long and with a displacement of just about 1,000 tons. And the last project that we completed, the Anti-Submarine Warfare Shallow Water Craft, anti-submarine corvette, it's around 110 meters long. That's also called corvette. Now, coming to the frigates. We have built earlier the P16 Alpha project, the Brahmaputra class project around 10, 12 years back. Weapon package wise, at that point of time, termed as the frigate, but a conservative frigate. What we are building today, the P17 Alpha, is the most advanced frigate, absolutely weapon intensive. So the difference between frigates, destroyers, that band of ships is reducing. We have full capability to construct destroyers, but at this juncture, the next generation destroyers, at this juncture, the need is very much there, but the processing of the case for AoN and this thing is still in liquid form. It is a bit away. It is a bit away, as in it could be 2 to 3 years away. When that situation comes, we will definitely be pitching in. We will be one of the shipyards who will be shortlisted for this project. This is our appreciation. Sure. That is it from my side. Thank you. All the best. Thank you. Please. Sir, Ramesh Pojwani from Mehta y Vakil. You have made an all-encompassing presentation. Few clarifications I wanted. One, do we have the technology and the capability to build and deliver stealth ships? This is from the defense point of view. Okay. We are already building stealth ships. What we are building now, the P17 Alpha, is a stealth ship. It is called the P17 Alpha Stealth Frigate. India in general, Indian shipyards in general, and GRSE in particular, specifically, we have the full capability to build the stealth ships. Excellent. Secondly, do we also have the capability to build submarines? In case of submarine building, there are two Indian shipyards, two and a half. Two Indian shipyards, that is Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited, your neighbors here, fully capable, proven capability in building submarines. Hindustan Shipyard, right now they are into submarine repairs, but the very fact that they can do repairs, which means with little augmentation they can do submarine building. Larsen & Toubro Shipyard, they invested heavily into submarine design and building, and they have been supporting Navy for the project, the other project. That is why I said two and a half. Two and a half shipyards already exist. Because- For us, at this juncture, we are not looking at submarines. We are good with surface ships, and Navy is, even today, Indian Armed Forces, definitely Indian Coast Guard and mostly Navy, they are surface platform oriented, and that is our specialty. We would like to retain that core strength. Because we have a very, very vast coastline, and the dangers from all the three sides are exponentially up. That was my reason of asking the question. Submarine, at this juncture, no. I'll tell you one more thing so that we are on the same page. See, any shipbuilding prowess doesn't come overnight. Any shipbuilding capability or submarine capability, it requires decades and decades of expertise. The people may change, but the systems, the design capability, everything remains. So going in for ab initio development of submarine building may not be in our business interest. Second, since you mentioned India has got 7,500 odd kilometers, 7,512 kilometers of coastal line. More than submarines, what we need is ships, surface ships, anti-submarine platforms to protect the coastlines. That is our specialty. Very true. Thank you, and all the best. Thank you. Do we have any more questions? I have. Hi, sir. Thank you for giving this opportunity. This is Swechcha from Whitestream Financial Advisors. Sir, you've given us a good overview of the bid pipelines, the RFPs that are going to be out and you're going to bid for. If you could just help us understand what all orders you've already bid for already and waiting for the awards or something. In some sense, some kind of number to that. See, at this juncture, right now, I'm talking as on today, none of the RFPs of anybody's live, which would be We have bid for few export projects, again, through DLOC and minor. That is what is available in the market today. Okay. Nothing much is available today, as on today. But 4 months, 5 months from now, the flow will start. Okay. There, I can just rattle out INR 36,000 crores for the NGC, INR 3,000 crores for the next generation survey vessels, around INR 1,200 crores for the multipurpose vessels, and P17 Bravo when it comes, 7 into 10, INR 70,000 crores is available over the next year, next 1 to 1.5 years. Right. Okay. My second question is regarding the commercial shipbuilding. If you could give some background as to what kind of orders, again, there you are looking to bid, what kind of opportunity do we have on the commercial shipbuilding side as well? You are specifically asking about commercial shipbuilding? Yes. In commercial shipbuilding, again, just to give you a background. China was a major player, is a major player, but China doesn't seem much interested in, right now, constructing smaller vessels. That is medium and smaller vessels. They are looking at much, much bigger size platforms, and same goes for Korea or Japan. So most of the European clients are looking either at India or at Turkey. So India has now become a destination because they know that the cost of production is going to be much cheaper. India has been traditionally building warships, so the capability and quality exists. Now, to come to your specific this thing, we have got a very, very positive interest shown by clients from Netherlands and Germany. That's why I said, I would request little patience, maybe give us another 3 months and we will tell you what we got. Thank you. Because most of the issues, I can tell the figures, but most of them are at the final stages of negotiation. So even giving an indicative figure will not really help you. But just to give you the confidence that we are into this field, and we are very confident of getting orders. Okay. Is it fair to assume that margins, obviously, on the commercial shipbuilding would be higher than our existing margins? Yes, they will be higher, but we would like to start in a modest fashion. The reason being, we do not have to prove anything to Indian Armed Forces because they know us for the last 64 years. But in commercial shipbuilding, we have to prove ourselves. What we have delivered so far is a passenger-cum-cargo vessel to Guyana and a few such projects. So we will be starting in a modest fashion. We will not go too aggressive with respect to getting margins. It is to prove our capability so that they gain confidence as we get more and more. That is the intent. Thank you. Thank you so much. Sir, can you have the mic this side, please? This side, sir. Okay. Sir, on the left. Please. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Amit Anwani this side from PL Capital. My question is on the order book. You said the current order book is about INR 23,000-INR 25,000, and we would like to maintain the similar level over next three, four years. The current book will be executed in next four years, which means that we are factoring in the collective order intake of INR 23,000 to INR 25,000 over next four years together. The pipeline which you highlighted looks quite robust, including the INR 36,000 Next Generation Corvettes project and then the Next Generation Oceangoing Patrol Vessel project and P17 Bravo. I think collectively, pipeline looks more than INR 60,000-INR 70,000. Are we being conservative in order intake guidance? That is my first question. Okay. Right now, it is around INR 23,792 crores. With the way our revenue is growing, over the next 2 to 3 years, if we are not getting any new orders, this will deplete. What we are currently looking at as the first major order would be the Next Generation Corvettes. The INR 36,000 crores is for 8 ships, and that is going to be split between 2 shipyards. Let us, for a moment, assume we become L1, our order value would be around INR 22,500 crores. Coming to P17 Bravo. P17 Bravo is a little more away. Little more away, maybe another year behind the NGC. That is a 7-ship project, again, going to be built by 2 shipyards, split between 2 shipyards. While the order book value could be total, if you are putting approximately INR 10,000 crores per ship, so INR 70,000. The L1 shipyard would get around INR 40,000. There again. The revenue accrual will commence only another year or year and a half down after the project is, I mean, the contract is concluded. I would not say I am going too conservative. I am just perhaps trying to give you a reasonably realistic assessment. Right. Next question on the non-shipbuilding areas that you highlighted, including the commercial ships, ship repair, and LD, and I think few more areas, autonomous areas. Would you like to highlight what could be the order potential over the next 5 years in each of these areas for us? See, in this, again, as a nation, the autonomous platforms, it is at a developmental stage. While we have been singularly lucky to have already got an order and one more on the anvil, at least for the next 3 years, I don't expect major orders in this segment. They all would be coming piecemeal, maybe INR 50 crores, INR 100 crores, to that level only. But in case of commercial shipbuilding, yes, there is enough scope. Give us a little more time. I will be able to give you a clearer picture on the commercial shipbuilding. Maybe 3 months down the line, we can interact on that. My next vertical is the portable steel bridges. Here, just again, to give you this thing, I had mentioned that the market share, we own around 65%, overall market is low. We are getting over INR 120 crores from this segment alone. These are the small things which add up. Ship repairs. Ship repairs, right now, it is just about INR 100 odd crores, 70 to, sorry, 85 to INR 100 crores. There is potential here, but we have not yet got a break into the Navy. The moment we get a break into the Navy, which we will during the current year. Not current year, next financial year, that is current calendar year. There, the revenue will go up. Maybe again, our internal target is by 2025, at least INR 200, INR 250 crores from ship repairs. Coming to the fourth or fifth vertical, that is naval guns. Very interesting segment. Almost a monopoly in that particular type of guns. We already got the first break. We are capitalizing on that. There is enough opportunity there. We started with INR 250 crores for a one and a half year project. More and more is coming in this segment. Another area which I had not touched upon before is, we also have a planned production facility at Ranchi, the diesel engine plant at Ranchi. We had a license agreement with MTU Rolls-Royce, Germany, for assembly and testing of diesel engines. The revenue accrual was minuscule. Now we have gone to the next level. That is co-production of engines. Why this is attractive, it will again take for it to fructify. Right now, the license agreement has already been signed. For it to fructify into an order, it will take another three years, because the engines that are going to be co-produced by Rolls-Royce and GRSE are targeted to be fitted in Indian naval ships, the smaller size ships. That is the fast patrol vessels or the water jet FACs. Around two to three years down the line, we will start getting orders in this segment also. Another area is, we have also ventured into development of green vessels, green platform. This is an area, as I had mentioned, right now, of course, there are very small players who are developing boats. But right now, only Cochin Shipyard and GRSE are there. If the government seriously looks at decarbonization and go green for all our ports and inland waterways, the sky is the limit. So I can only give generic statement with respect to it, because these are all developmental stage. I am talking about green vessels and autonomous vessels. Other things are clear. Anything else? Last question on the import component in each of the platforms which we are executing, and any constraint with respect to raw material supply or any components which you might face or might be facing currently. There was an impact. There was an impact, but this was during. First, it was because of the COVID situation. There was a definite impact on the supply chain in general, and with respect to the import content. To be frank, not much because of COVID. Then came the Ukraine situation. Many of our items come through sea. Minimal impact. Why minimal impact is most of our items had already come in before that. Second, the prices have gone up, but luckily all our orders for the existing projects, all, I repeat, all the orders for the existing projects were placed before. They are all fixed price orders on our OEMs, so there has been no price impact. In a nutshell, yes, there has been an impact, marginal impact on the project timelines overall, but not significant. Sir, here. Sir, the two types of contracts, generally, nomination and bidding. If it is a nomination, I think we get a fixed margin over there. P17 Alpha comes in that category. The margins, I think that is the one question which has been left out. The next INR 36,000 crore order which is there, it is going to be on a bidding basis? It is a nomination. How are the margins different between both of them? I was actually speaking in a forum which included effectively the Indian defense manufacturing industry. My starting point was this, the transition from that cost plus and the nomination era to fixed cost and the competitive era. This took almost a decade back, and we are good with that. To answer your question, yes, P17 Alpha, we got on nomination, two shipyards. All the other projects have been won on competition. The Next Generation Corvettes project is on competition. Sir, the nomination gives us a 7.5% kind of a margin. When we are bidding and there the margins could be what range? Give some number on that. Because my future order book pattern is one thing. The change in the margin is also important for us to understand, so. See, I will just take two projects so that you understand. The two projects on competitive bidding. There is going to be a warship FAC project for 22 warship FACs for Indian Navy. There are around, I think, five plus two, seven shipyards. The Next Generation Corvettes, four shipyards. Our bidding strategy will be completely different for both. If we intend at that point of time to win the contract, the warship FAC, I will go for very low margins and then focus on efficiency, concurrent construction. In case of NGC, my strategy will be totally different because there are only four. There are several places where I do not have to invest because capability, capacity, infrastructure, design, everything is available with me. In that case, the margins are definitely, the bid margins when we bid, the margins are going to be on the higher scale as compared to the other project. The fact remains it is competition. This is the way it is going to be for every shipyard, at least for the shipbuilding industry. Right. Sir, one more question. You increased the authorized share capital of the company just recently, right? What are we looking at winning? See, at this juncture, I can only state that this is a government, the DIPAM directive. We will provide further clarity on this as it evolves. At this juncture, I can only state that we are a government company. It is a directive of the government, come through DIPAM, and we will provide further clarity on this as it evolves, maybe in the next interaction. Okay. Sir, one more, if I can chip in, and this is more of, well, many of us here are shareholders of the company as well as investors. We have been holding the company shares for many years now, maybe three, four pre-COVID days. We have seen the journey going through and the entire quarter on quarter run up, which we had thought of, is actually getting delivered. Going forward, we see the INR 23,000 crores order fructifying over the next four years. Just as a thumb rule, I am not trying to pinpoint numbers or anything. We are just benchmarking that this year, if we do INR 3,000 crores, we do INR 4,000 crores revenue, five, six, seven. That's the broader track on which thematically we are thinking. Is our thought process more or less on the right path, or we are anticipating too much, or just the ballpark? If I was sitting on your chair holding the mic, I am completely in agreement with you. Sir, we are on the other side, so just want to get a- Sir is telling something that is- Sir, what is your opinion? This is our simple mathematics. It is- Four, five, six, seven comes to 22,000. Sir, mathematics and logic both are matching. They are in congruence. Okay. And sir, roughly- Sir, I will put it like this. Unless something unforeseen happens, this entire thing collapses, or let us say there is another war, or if something catastrophic happens, we are on track as to what he was mentioning. Sir, just one question. Do we have a capacity in next 2, 3 years to go INR 10,000 crore per year after 2028? Seriously, that is the intent, sir. Now, again, I can comfortably state because it is an open source information. Today, we are a Miniratna Category I, Schedule B company. We aspire to be a Navratna company. And for us to be a Navratna company, what you are mentioning is exactly what we are looking for. Capacity-wise, there is no constraint. Capacity-wise, absolutely no constraint. Regarding the raising and authorized capital, I think you must have some thought process why you required to raise the DIPAM has told you to raise the capital. Sir, I understand your thought. Just give us a little more time. Let little more clarity emerge. We will definitely brief you. Just give us three more months. By that time, we will know exactly where we stand. At this juncture, I would like to limit my answer to that. Sir, in other way, do you require a capital or do you require a debt or anything for future expansion? Not at this juncture. We do not have any requirement at this juncture for raising capital or going for debt. Okay. Sir, board meeting has been postponed to 21st March. Is it also from DIPAM instruction? No, it is because of our own constraints. Because we had a couple of cases which had to be put up to the board. We were not ready with that. I will just tell you, because since you asked. We are just executing a project for the Navy, the Next Generation Oceangoing Patrol Vessel. Certain procurement cases, high-value procurement cases are going beyond my direct financial powers. So we had to go to the board for getting approval. Some clarifications were still pending. That is why the delay. I think now it is on 21st? 22nd. 21st or 22nd? 21st March. 21st. So we are good to go for that. No other reason. This has got nothing whatsoever to do with the- Sir, planning for the bonus yet? Any other questions? Hi, I am Amit Dixit from ICICI Securities. Most of my questions have been answered, just a few ones. You indicated from the order book and from the execution, whatever we hear, and of course, we are expecting orders of Next Generation Corvettes and P17B. Will there be a phase, let us say FY 2027, 2028, when the execution will drop significantly? Because now we will end possibly at INR 7,000, whatever is being mentioned. But going ahead, the revenue will take time to pick up, essentially. Do you expect this execution to drop or before that you expect NGC, et cetera, to pitch in or some other avenues that you have highlighted? What I had, I think, mentioned in passing, I will just reiterate. The Next Generation Corvettes, from the time the RFP is issued, it will take a year for the contract conclusion, logically. A year. Now, the way Navy is moving, it could even be 10 to 11 months. Let us take a year. That would be mid of 2025. From then, for the actual revenue to be recognized, accrued, it will take another year. Another year to another year and a half. That is when the ship will start from 10% to 15%, 20%, whatever is at sea. So that puts us somewhere in 2027. That is when our current orders, existing order book only, I am not talking about what we are commercial shipbuilding, other verticals and all. Existing order book, once it starts depleting, that will get padded up by NGC. Now, P17 Alpha, P17 Bravo is about a year behind NGC. Once NGC starts in a, let us say, an aggressive way with respect to revenue recognition, the P17 Bravo will start giving something, and that will peak during 2029, 2030. This is our current estimate. At this juncture, I am not even talking about NGSV or the smaller project or what is it, FAC. Only the big ticket at sea. Got it. The second question is essentially on the increase in capacity from 20 ships concurrently to 24. Is there any incremental CapEx that you have to do, or most of it is done? If you can also highlight the incremental CapEx for next three years or so. I'll just give you a background, then I'll come to this. See, we had done a major CapEx infusion somewhere in the latter half of the last decade, around INR 610 crores. From then onwards, as a strategic decision, we decided that we'll invest maybe a modest INR 40 to INR 50 crores every year, replace the equipment and so on. So it is with that strategy we have been moving. In between, we have procured a crane for around INR 150 crores. Now, what we intend doing for the next three to four years is to retain this strategy of INR 50 to INR 60 crores. That is, depending upon the need, INR 50 to INR 60 crores per annum, at least for the next three years, we have projects in hand. For this capacity enhancement, not sure whether you remember or not, we had taken over a facility from Central Inland Water Transport Corporation. That is called our Rajabagan. It's a separate, fully dedicated production unit. Perhaps that is the only facility in India today which is dedicatedly for small and medium-sized warships. When this was a beautiful facility with the multiple docks and slipways, which are actually required for shipbuilding, it was completely in defunct condition. So what we had done was we had gradually developed it. At this juncture, around 70% of it is the facilities are utilizable, which means we are utilizing, we are constructing ships there. Why I mentioned calendar year 2025 for increasing to 24 is by rejuvenating the balance of that 30%, which we already do executing. Executing as in we are already doing the refurbishment. It is not capital intensive. This will come within our overall plan of INR 50 to INR 60 crores per annum. To answer your question, no major capital infusion unnecessarily required at this juncture for capacity enhancements. Great, sir. Thank you so much. Sir, I have a follow-up question. Hello. Sir, here. Please. Sir, just a follow-up question, sir, with regards to revenue. The current order book is close to INR 23,000, INR 24,000 odd crores, and in 9 months, we've already booked a revenue of INR 2,600 crores. As you mentioned that in the shipbuilding cycle, majority of the revenue is already built in during the mid-cycle, right? There is a peak and then there is a decline in revenue. Most of the order book, the ships, I believe, are already in the advanced stage. They would have crossed that line, right? Given this, do you think the peak revenue for us from the current order book has already been built in in this year? Or like you also stated earlier that you would see a CAGR of 20%-25% for next 2 years. Is that possible? Because I feel most of the ships would have crossed that peak revenue booking cycle, right? I'll tell you. I'll just take 3 projects. The fourth project, NGOPV, is still in the nascent form. It has just achieved around 10%, hardly any revenue recognition. I'll just leave that aside. Coming to the P17 Alpha, the first ship has touched 65%. And I had mentioned that there is still enough room for value to come in into the project. Okay. Up to 70%, 72%, 75%. In case of the second ship, it is right now at 54%, 55%. That is actually at a stage where it is giving us, and that will continue for the next 1 year. The third ship is only at 44%. Almost 44%. 44%. And if you just look at the delivery timelines also, the first ship is planned to be delivered only by August. That means maybe July, August next year. The next ship is February 2026, and the third ship is August 2026. So, I think you should be assured that all these 3 ships are at the correct phase where they'll start giving us returns in terms of revenue. Okay. This will be supplemented by the other ships. See, this Anti-Submarine Warfare Shallow Water Craft project is an eight-ship project. First ship is at around, I think 80%, 77%-80%, and the last ship is at 15% construction. They will all mature where they will pad up the revenue. Is it right for me to assume that from the current order book, the peak revenue is going to be somewhere in FY 2025, and then it will start tapering down? Obviously, you will have other ships that will add, but from the current order book, FY 2025 would be the peak revenue? See, FY 2025 and FY 2026. Because in FY 2026, I had mentioned the P17 Alpha delivery is, one is in February 2026, and the second one is August 2026. Okay. Thank you so much. Excuse me, sir. Please. Sir, could you please throw some light on landing platform dock? Who all are our competitors and why are we, to a certain extent, hopeful on it? A landing platform dock originally conceived as a four-ship project. High-value project. Each ship expected to be to the tune of INR 18,000 crores to INR 20,000 crores. The shipyards who could be in contention for this is Cochin Shipyard, Larsen & Toubro, us, and HSL. But then, again, I would like to give you a bit reality check, that this has been going on for the last 10 years, this project has been. That's why we have not factored that in any of our projections. What makes you hopeful, sir, to mention now? No, what I mentioned was that this project has been under discussion for the last 10 years. It may happen, it may not happen at this juncture, we don't know. Neither does the Navy know, though they have a requirement. Okay. The project Acceptance of Necessity is accorded based on the fund availability also. The priority automatically goes to projects like corvettes or frigates or even the next generation destroyers, which could come even before the LPD. This is my assessment. Let us see what happens. Thank you, sir. Sir, one more question. Please. Can you throw some light on the export opportunity with regard to the lower value ships and all those stuff? Export opportunities are there too. I will just give you what we have already achieved. Already achieved means where we are the L1, waiting for the orders to the contract to be signed. One is for a dredger for the government of Bangladesh and also for an ocean-going tug through DLOC for the government of These, the order values are ranging between INR 150 crores to INR 200 crores. Sir, apart from that- Apart- Smaller ship buildings in China or Japan- These are small ships. Okay. On the commercial ships, what we will be targeting, just so that we are all on the same page. We will be targeting multipurpose vessels ranging from 80 meters to 120 meters length and tankers. Tankers means small tankers, not the large tankers, which are to the tune of around 110 to 120 meters length. At this juncture, as ma'am had asked, I said I should not be giving you a clearer picture than this because we are in the stages of negotiation. Maybe next time when we meet, I will be able to give you better clarity. Other nations have shown interest. Like, some of our friendly foreign nations have shown interest in smaller platforms, that is weapon platforms. But defense exports, the government has got a major say in that. Like let us say today, Maldives or Sri Lanka or Mauritius or Seychelles wants a ship, the routing is through government. Yeah. Good evening, sir. Sir. Sir, straight ahead. Yeah, please. Yeah. Just one question on margins. You anticipated it very early in your interaction. Just looking at how margins will pan out from here over the next three, four years. Could you please repeat? Yeah. My question is on margins. Yeah. Shipbuilding goes through phases where value addition is different. Are we looking at stable margins or increasing margins going ahead in the next three years? Okay. At this juncture, with our major revenue coming in from shipbuilding. I am not keeping the other verticals because the margins are higher there, but they hardly contribute less than 5% of our overall revenue. We will be able to provide you steady margins as what we are giving now, neither more nor less at this juncture, unless some policy changes and- Just one clarification. To the gentleman on this side, when he indicated 4, 5, 6, 7 as a likely growth path for your revenue, you said, "Yes, that's very much possible." And to the lady on this side, you indicated that when she asked that the peak revenue might happen in 2025, 2026- You know- you concurred with that as well. So I am slightly confused. Which is it? If everybody is concurring, even I concur. No problem. No. This side, that side and center has concurred. Who am I to- No, I am not concurring. I am asking for a clarification. No. Which is it? See, it is what sir was mentioning. It is logic. Yeah. At this juncture, we don't see any delay. I said unless, let us say, India suddenly decides to fight with everybody or some global situation happens, we don't see any delay. If there is no delay envisaged, then the order book is so much, the present progress is so much, the order book remaining is so much. It is pure mathematics. The final hypothetical- Hypothetical May I say. 4 years, your current order book is completely invoiced, and you are indicating that you intend to maintain your order book in the same corridor. Absolutely. So end of four years from now, your order book will look similar, INR 25,000 crores. Or more. That is what we are targeting. If, I mean, it is again But are we therefore looking at a discernible slowdown in revenue growth from four years from now? At this juncture, no. Because if you are getting an order for NGC, which we are hopeful, then there is no question of it coming down. And that is exactly the reason why are we getting into commercial shipbuilding. It is to pad up in case there is a dip somewhere, pad it up with these orders. What kind of scale are we looking at for commercial shipbuilding, perhaps in a five-year timeframe? Five-year time, we will start, maybe I cannot indicate the values, but we will start with multipurpose vessels and tankers, the smaller size tankers. If the business is good and the margins are attractive, we will invest more attention towards this. Thank you, sir. Yeah. Hi, sir. That is only English, because I don't think I gave you a clear answer. Hello. Yeah. Hi, sir. This is Harshit Kapadia from Elara Capital. Yeah, please. Hi, sir. Sir, could you give us a breakup on the order book number, that INR 23,700 crore? What would be for P17 Alpha? What will be for SVL and ASW corvette? Order book breakup between the various projects. One second. Yeah. Let's just get the It will turn down somewhere. Between the projects. What is remaining in P17 Alpha? In P17 Alpha, we have around INR 12,700 crores remaining. This is as of December 31. In the Anti-Submarine Warfare Shallow Water Craft, we have around INR 5,000 crore remaining. In Survey Vessel (Large), about INR 1,050 crores remaining. And in the NGOPV project, around INR 3,388 crores remaining. Okay. Just a last question. That just I think should address the query by ma'am there, that P17 Alpha still contributes to almost INR 12,000 crores. Absolutely, sir. Sure. Just final question on the commercial shipbuilding. One of the other PSUs have also mentioned that they also plan to get into commercial shipbuilding. So this will be more of a competitive bidding for the same project or how is it geography-wise divided that you will be looking at your own, the other PSU would not be looking at? See, with these European owners not looking at China at this juncture for the platforms that we are looking. All of us, be it us, Cochin Shipyard, there are only three of us who have shown active interest in this MDL. What we have assessed so far is that, as late as yesterday and today, the owners of couple of companies are in my premises. They're not on competitive bidding. They target a shipyard. They do an independent assessment of the shipyard. When they know that we are interested in commercial, they approach us. That is a strategy which they generally follow, unlike a conventional government domestic warship building tender. It is one-to-one. If the price is satisfactory, if the classification society certifies us as competitors, you're through, if the price is mutually agreed. Understood, sir. Just one question on the indigenization. Oh. Any more product which you think would you be making in-house or you think you will be collaborating in future, just like you have done for diesel engines? Any other product where we are looking into, which is of a high value, which could be of critical value, if you can highlight. In addition to diesel engines, we have in smaller size ships, there is something called a water jet propulsion. There are few OEMs who are competitors, Wärtsilä, Kongsberg, and so on, and Rolls-Royce. We have collaborated with Kongsberg. We have already signed an MoU, and now the MoU needs to be translated into a licensing agreement, what we have done for the engine. I expect another 3 to 4 months for concluding that. Again, the potential there is that many of the platforms required by both Navy and the Coast Guard have water jet propulsion. With the indigenous content, with the government's thrust on indigenization, with the indigenous content above 50%, and if that becomes the RFP criteria, we stand a good chance. Also, since you talked about indigenization, almost all the autonomous platforms which are going to come. Right now, you must have seen in news, many of the platforms are getting imported. That cannot go on forever. I do not want to put any figure to that, just to say there is future in that segment also. Deliberately, we are collaborating only with startups. We are not collaborating with any major industry because that is economically suitable also for us. Sir. Sir, my question regarding when we came here, we saw a corporate film of GRSE. Within the film, you were carrying a document called Vision 2030. Can you elaborate? We want to interested only in financial matters of Vision 2030. Financially, what is your vision? Sir, it is like Dr. Abdul Kalam. His thing is, there is no end to dreams, but the dreams should be realistic. My company's vision is to become a Navratna company by 2030. To become a Navratna company by 2030, then we have to be a Schedule A company first in another couple of years, this year or next year or next next year. Our current revenue of INR 3,000, INR 4,000 crores is nothing. We aspire to be a Navratna company with a turnover of around INR 10,000 crores by 2030. It is ambitious target, very aspirational, but it is not impossible. It is very much possible. Simply putting INR 10,000 crore by 2030. 4, 5, 6, 7. Why I have not put 15,000? Why I have not put Maharatna? Which means? Achievable. Achievable. It is achievable. It is definitely achievable. Sir, for achieving that 10,000 figure, what is your expectations from Government of India? From government, expectation is clear. One is we want the P17 Bravo project. Second, from our side, our own internal expectation is that we must win the five ships of NGC. We should become the L1. Third, none of our existing order books should cross 2028. None of them should cross 2028. Fourth, commercial shipbuilding, we should start on a right foot. If we start on a right foot, right now we had a tanker OEM who had come, yesterday I mentioned that. We are afraid to give him a commitment because we have got a multipurpose vessel owner who is about to sign a contract. At this juncture, what I'm trying to say is the opportunities and leads are aplenty. This is the fourth thing. And fifth, of course, supplement this with all our other verticals. Because today, among Indian companies, among all Indian companies put together, all, I state with confidence that we are the only fully diversified company. You take the private, public, everybody put together, we are the only truly diversified, which means you talk ships building, commercial ships, we have delivered, we will be delivering more. Ship repairs. You talk about bridges, which has got nothing to do with ships. Weapons, diesel engines. So capability exists. Thank you. Thank you. Do we have any more questions, friends? I think that's it. Thank you so much, everyone. Thank you, Commodore PR Hari. Thank you, Mr. Dash. And thank you, Sandip, sir. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. It was a pleasure interacting with you and looking forward to meeting you soon. We will not let you down.