Q4 20/21

Apr 29, 2021

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Is Abhi Gottfal from Turge Gate Partners. And on behalf of India Mart Intermesh Limited, I would like to welcome you all to the company q four f y twenty one earnings webinar. As a reminder, all participant line will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask question. Joining us today from the management side, we have mister Dinesh Agawal, managing director and chief executive officer mister Vijay Shagawal, full time director and mister Prateek Chandra, chief financial officer. Before we begin, I would like to remind you that some of these statements made in today's webinar may be forward looking in nature and may involve risk and uncertainties. Kindly refer to Slide number three of the presentation for the detailed disclaimer. Now I would like to hand over the call to Mr. Dinesh Agrawal for his opening remarks. Thank you and over to you, sir. Good afternoon, everybody, and welcome to Indiamart's quarter four f y twenty one result conference. I hope you and your loved ones are staying safe amidst this going second wave of the pandemic. We have already circulated our earnings presentation, which is is available on our website as well as stock exchange website. I'm sure you would have gone through the presentation, and I would be happy to take any questions afterwards. I'm pleased to report that India Mart has achieved consolidated revenue from operations of rupees 180 crore in the fourth quarter and rupees 670 crores for the full year, representing a year on year growth of about 65% respectively. The first '2 quarters of the fiscal year were clearly impacted due to the pandemic, but the growth momentum in the last two quarter helped us close the financial year with the modest growth in the revenue. Collections from customers declined marginally on a full year basis from 738 crores in f y twenty eight f y twenty to rupees 711 crores in f y twenty one. However, the deferred revenue has increased from rupees 635 crores as of March 2020 to 726 crores as of March 2021. Both collections and deferred revenue were initially impacted due to the subdued first half of the year, but delivered good growth in the force fourth quarter, which has resulted into overall growth at the annual level. The financial performance was driven by growth in the key operating metrics, buyer side operating metrics, which are which results into the customer's confident confidence in our services. In the quarter four, total traffic grew by 42% to 257,000,000, reflecting approximately 85,000,000 visits every month. On a full year basis, the platform saw approximately eighty eighty million visits every month as compared to 62,000,000 visits per month in f y twenty. In the q four, business inquiries delivered also increased by 29% to 150,000,000. On the full year basis, 610,000,000 business inquiries were delivered, representing a growth of 31% year on year from f y twenty. At the beginning of the fourth quarter, we were able to reach pre COVID levels for our paying subscribers. And at the end of f y twenty one, there are approximately 4,000 net addition to the paying subscribers, resulting in the overall subscriber base of one lakh 52,000 customers at the end of the year. During the quarter, we have successfully closed the QIP and raised rupees 1,070 crore. The proceeds of that would be utilized for both organic and inorganic growth opportunities, and we will continue to invest in the companies that have synergies within the amount. In line with the same objective, we have recently invested in three companies. 11% stake in legistify.com for rupees 1.2 crores. And Legistify offers a great product called Legistrack, which is a SaaS based tool that allows enterprises to manage their legal workflows and track, the legal cases around them. 25%, is taken Truckhaul, which, operates, superprocure.com for rupees 11 crores. It offers again a SaaS based tool to of to businesses large businesses generally to manage their supply chain and operate real time freight sourcing and collaboration platform. Another 26% stake in shipway. In for rupees 18.2 crores, which is the business of developing a SaaS based software solution for businesses to automate their shipping operations. Overall, we are happy to close the financial year with a modest growth and are cautiously optimistic for the new fiscal year. With a strong balance sheet and clear strategy to invest in the building further on our core value proposition, we remain confident of strengthening our leadership position and remain India's leading online b two b marketplace. Before I conclude, I would say that these are very challenging times here again, and we are once again in the middle of a rapidly growing pandemic. Many of the people are affected by that, and I wish you all that you stay safe and request each one of you to use every precaution to stay healthy and safe. Now I would like to hand over the call to Prateek to discuss the financial performance in detail. Thank you, and over to you, Prateek. Thank you, Dinesh, and good afternoon, everyone. I'll take you through the financial performance for the fourth fourth quarter and fiscal year 2021. Consolidated revenue from operations were rupees 180 crores in the quarter, a growth of 6% year on year due to marginal increases in ARPU and paying subscribers year over year. Consolidated EBITDA was rupees 85 crores, representing a margin of 47%, and net profit was Rupees 56 crores with a margin of 29%. Net profit is impacted due to onetime charge of Rupees 11 crores on account of derecognition of deferred tax asset for goodwill in tax books pursuant to the amendment in the Finance Act. Cash flow from operations during the quarter was rupees $1.65 crores. On a full year basis, consolidated revenue from operations stood at rupees $6.70 crores with EBITDA of rupees $3.28 crores, representing a margin of 49. Net profit for the year was INR $2.80 crores and cash flow from operations during the year was INR $3.23 crores. Board of Directors have recommended a final dividend of INR 15 per share for fiscal 'twenty one, subject to approval from the shareholders. During the fourth quarter, we have successfully completed QIP issue of INR $10.70 crores and the proceeds will be utilized for the company's future growth and expansion. And consequently, the cash and investment balance stood at rupees 2,365 crores as on thirty first March twenty twenty one. Thank you very much. We are now ready to take any questions. Thank you, Prateek. We will now begin the q and a session. Please allow camera and microphone access if you wish to ask a question and use raise hand option. You may type your question in the discussion panel, and we will revert to you if any question remains unanswered. Please introduce yourself and restrict to two questions so that we may be able to address questions from all the participants. We will wait for a couple of seconds while the question queue assembles. First question is from the line of Amit Jayshwani. Please go ahead with your question. Hi, Dinesh. Congratulations on a good collection number. So my first question is, they were at 700 close of revenues. Am I audible? Right? Yes, Amit. You are audible. So, Dinesh, we are at 700 crores of revenues today. Where do we expect ourselves to be in the next five, seven, ten years? The opportunity size that you have is massive. You've got eight crore website visitors a month, and our collections are 700 crews. And we are delivering basically five crew of RFQs per month. That means per RFQ in a year, we're just charging $10.12 rupees. How do you, sir, expect yourself on India market to have a for the next five, seven, ten years? See, Internet growth has started only in the last of years. It is has become mainstream only in the past three, four years. Before that, it was a very small base and going at that base. Now even if we assume that past performance can be the barometer for future growth, we have been growing at the range of anywhere between 25 to 30%. Last six years, revenue from operation has grown at 22%. Even if you grow take a 22, 30% operational's growth, I'm pretty sure this would this would lead us to anywhere about five to 10 x growth over next five to ten years in terms of revenue. However, a lot would be depend on how are we able to execute in terms of our vision of providing access to market, access to technology like business enablement, and access to finance. So all these three things remain as as our focus. And as you know, we can't imagine ten years down the line anybody not using Internet. Five years down the line anybody not using. Or we cannot imagine anybody five years down the line or ten years down the line trying to do any b two b business and not having a a Internet presence. So I'm pretty sure that the first mover advantage and the data science that we have built, behavioral data that we have built, all that should help us with the help of network effects and continue to grow. Sir, my second question is, why aren't we advertising aggressively in places like IPL and all other events? So we are at just one fifty thousand customers. We are very small with 700 crores of revenues. Why are we not aggressively hype, like, investing and building even larger brand that we already have? And I also want to thank you because your stock has done well for our customers at Stallion. You've done well, sir. But the only thing you and I keep thinking about that, why don't why focus on cash flow so much? We don't even need money. You've already raised money via QIPs. Why not spend money to build something which is even ten, twenty, 30 x larger than maybe standard If you look at the buyer numbers, the buyer numbers have grown significantly, and we are already touching lives of about 10% of Indian Internet population every month being a b two b website. By advertising, you need to get you will probably get more buyers. I think when when it comes to supplier, it is only the b two b sales, which is one on one sales, which will work properly. They need to be understood. They need to so I think we are on that side, we should expand more sales and service operations, and that is that is where we should focus on. Since the last one year, we have not been able to do all of that. I think as soon as things open up properly, we will should be started doing that. The money has been raised only in the February two months ago, And it has to be deployed in various initiatives of inorganic and organic growth over the next two, three years time. I think we we have already done three investments in this quarter. And, obviously, a lot of that work has been going on in the past. So I think we will continue to build a a large sales force whenever needed for the purpose of branding. Whenever we need to build more buyer traffic, we will do that. But for the purpose of monetization, since we monetize through sellers, I'm not too sure if advertising is the right right channel right now. So certainly a new vertical, finance, speak about or you speak about other new areas like payment gateways or whatever. So what size do you think, since you already have a very large customer base, what size of the revenue, like, that new vertical should should become in the next few years? Like, that is that is where I want to be. Because you have a platform, now we have to get into newer place like taxes and all other places. So how do you see that journey, and how much are we investing there? Or are we gonna do it by the start up who we keep buying start ups, small stakes, and then trying to integrate on our platform? Yes. You are right. I think most of that would happen. So some of that is happening organically within our company. So for example, we have our own payment gateway. We have seen that the need of the payment gateway has fallen over the period of time because UPI has taken has become a great big p to p pro p to p payment provider. But as you can see, Vapar has done very well by way of our investment. Our internal CRM and lead manager has been doing very well. But it's not a monetization product because it is only increasing the ARPU of our customers over over a period of time, which you can see ARPU has increased over the last two, three years. And we will continue to invest in smaller companies. Smaller or bigger, any size of the companies. And integrate them as we understand them better as we nurture nurture them better. In terms of size, think it is too early for us to take any size as of now. But over the period of time, I'm pretty sure if we do many of these things, some of them might fail, but some of them might succeed as well. Thank you, Dinesh. We had look forward to that. Last one last question, sir. You say you keep speaking about the 4,000 to 5,000 customer addition number per quarter. What do you think we'll have to do if you wanna accelerate this number? And why are we not using that strategy to go from, let's say, one fifty thousand customers to four or five lakh customers, probably at a lower ARPU, and then slowly, once they get used to the platform, increase the ARPU? What is stopping us doing that? Yes. So we have done one step on that. We have reduced the the entry level fee. So earlier, we used to sell only annual packages. About five years ago, we decided to offer a monthly package with 5,000 rupees upfront charges and 2,000 rupees monthly. Now we have dropped the 5,000 rupees setup fee, and now there is only a monthly fee which is there, which is going to help us definitely sign up more customers. But at the same time, a lot of trial customers do come in. And these SMEs, especially in the last three, four years, ever since the monetization, GST, and pandemic has happened. They are they themselves are going through a lot of churn. And that is where keeping pace with the net customer addition has been difficult. As you see, last year, we had to drop almost 15,000 customers in the in the first quarter, and then slowly and slowly, we recovered from there. We were we were on the path of good recovery. Then again, the second wave has stopped. So if I think when all of this settled down well, I'm pretty sure the platform is useful enough for people to realize and pay for it. In terms of the existing customer, they continue to pay higher and higher as can be seen in the ARPU per customer. I wish you all the luck, Dinesh. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Anmolkar Motilaloswat. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi. Good afternoon. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to ask the question. So my first question is that in this particular quarter, we have seen a very high increase in the collections. So So what can be the reason for the same? Are we signing more annual contracts? Have we signed more annual contracts during the quarter? So this is a common last quarter of the year, especially March. In general, every year has been the bumper in terms of collection. Last year, it was not because the corona led problems started to happen from the second week of the March. So but otherwise, last quarter of the year has always been like this. Many of the SMEs and many of the companies, they try to come complete their budget before the fiscal year ends. Many of the companies wants to do that. And this is the similar case, I think, in for it also reports a bumper quarter in the March month. So I don't think there is any unusual activity there. What was your second question? Yeah. Thanks, sir. My second question is to Prateek. If you if you can highlight that why the other income was lower during the quarter. Sure. So and more other income is essentially a mark to market reflection of the investments that we've made. So as of thirty first March, we have 2,365 crores, and this entire money is parked in the in the liquid investment. So it's only appropriating the notional element depending upon the market cycle. I'm sure as we go along, it will certainly come back. Okay. Sure. Sure. And lastly, just one last question from my end is that in terms of the QIP money raised, are we looking for any bigger acquisitions or our strategy would revolve around tuck in or smaller acquisitions in next two, three years? No. I have as I have reiterated in the past also, that it will be a combination of all three segments. We will continue to invest behind our own organic growth strategy. One or two items we may want to build internally. Second, we will continue to do these adjacency led investment, which are very adjacent to India market, such as Wapar, such as Shipway or in the small business segment or such as Bizoom and such as Super Procure or Legistify in the large business segment. At the same time, we would continue to look for a larger ticket size acquisition or investment, which may happen one or two in a in a year or or or maximum. I think the way you can expect this, maybe one large investment in a year and multiple smaller investments and apart from the organic growth opportunities that we continue to do. Okay. Okay. Sure. Sure, sir. Thanks a lot. That's it from my end. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Kushagra Bhutta from Old Bridge Capital. Please go ahead with your questions. Hey. Thanks for the opportunity. Couple of questions. So I just wanted to pick your thoughts on, you know, scalability on volume strength and on the client onboarding and client mining strategy. So first of all, I mean, is this understanding correct that, you know, to get more paid suppliers on a DMR's platform, you kind of need more relationship managers. So let's say in future, when you say you are targeting five x to 10 x, you would need significant increase in your relationship managers as well. Or, you know, I've got this wrong and you guys are doing something different to increase the number of paid suppliers without any increase in relationship managers. So can you throw some light on this client onboarding as well as client mining strategy that will be helpful? Yes, sir. So first, let us look at two sides of it. One is the client new client acquisition. For the new client acquisition, earlier, 100% of our client used to come when there was one to one meeting with the customers and all of them on the field sales. And all of them were on our roles, our employees, because it was more of a concept sale. Over the time, two things have happened. One, people have started to come on the telephone and people have started to come online. Second, we have instead of having our own employees at all the places, we are able to now have channel partners who are able to work with us either on tele mode or on the free Salesforce mode to acquire the customers. I think we currently, about 25% of our sales, new customer acquisition has already started to come beyond the channels which were there pre pandemic, which were, like, by and large, our own people and our own Salesforce. Now and in and together in all of those channels, approximately 500 people are already deployed. However, their productivity is still much lower than the people who have been working with us for longer period, but I'm sure that will catch up. Secondly, as we move from annual to monthly to removing of the setup fee, the there is some level of increase in the productivity, which is also not linear when we acquire the same number of customers. We will not need as many number of people. The second part is the servicing of the customer, which works at renewal and upsell. Yes. You for for that, we do need customer relationship management people. However, as as and when more and more people are getting adept with how to use an online b to b portal, I think I if I remember correctly, there used to be a time when we used we had to deploy almost 1% for every 50 customers. Now we are almost at, you know, 11% for every 100 customers that we are because the way multiple automations have resulted over a period of time. So I think slowly and slowly, this linearity will remain, but this linearity will actually taper down with respect to the number of people. Sure. This is helpful. Just to on that, then I'll ask my second question. So why do I see then, you know, given the broad good outlook or the strong growth outlook, there has been a dip in the sales? Possibly, I would have been able to relate it in the first half when there was a significant pressure. But when things are now you know, the outlook remains strong, why there has been a decline. And also, when you when you showcase I mean, when you mentioned that, you know, there are two types of sales team. One is the hunter type kind of, and the other one is the farmer kind of, you know, servicing clients. So can you throw some more highlights on, you know, the incentives and the targets and the attrition rates you possibly see in your relationship management team? That will be helpful. Then I'll ask my second question. Thanks. So, you know, the sales attrition and, you know, targets and incentive are sim very similar to what you will get in any sales organization, whether it is banking, whether it is telecom, or whether it is insurance, or whether it is education at Teng. Very similar so, typically, the there is a early attrition which is higher, and then there are people who stay on. They stay on for long period, and they also become very productive. To your question on why the growth is and the client has not been coming, Because as you know, more than 50% of our customers are had signed up for more than three years. Many of our customers had signed up for annual subscription. Only one third of our customers are on monthly subscription. The monthly subscription cost customer immediately as soon as the pandemic set in last year, they immediately realized that they cannot survive for now, and they went away. Also, they immediately came back as soon as the the December happened, and they immediately started to come back. However, the annual customers, of them could not survive the pandemic, and many of them had to change their business model completely. So their renewals are coming in December, January, February. So I think this whole churn that has happened because of the pandemic, the industry churn which is which India is going through, until that stabilizer, the new customer acquisition and the net customer addition will remain a little volatile. Having said that, there are people who understand in the amount of the platform, and they know how to take out value from such platform. And which is what is you are seeing in the collection from customers are are approved from customer, which is increasing rapidly when the market was opened in December, January, February, and March. I the this is again come under a lot of pressure now because there is a second wave of the pandemic, which is much more stronger and much more settled than the than the previous one. However, the previous lockdown was very strict, but I think there is a mix bad uncertainty on that side. But we are hopeful that as long as buyers are coming on our platform and they are getting their work done, we will be able to monetize sooner or later more number of customers. And and on the sales team, I mean, I'm we are seeing the reduction in the sales team as well. So I I I already said that one in the first two Okay. Okay. In the first two quarters, we did not hire anybody because we were completely focused on probably uncertainty was there, and we did not want to increase any headcount at that point of time. After the first two quarter, it is the only third quarter initially we thought that let the office open and then we should start hiring. However, that didn't happen because, you know, cases started keep coming here and there. So by December, we decided, okay. Let's just start hiring. So we started to hire in good numbers in January, February, March. But, again, looks like this is not a very good time to go out and build a team. I think it is time to focus on health and safety of the existing set of people, health and safety of the customers. So currently, we are we are we are we're way too busy in managing the health and safety. As soon as there is time, we will have any start to work on that. We have already said that about 500 people who work who are now working with our channel partners, they are also working. So that number was not there one year ago. Okay. Sure. Last question. So when, you know, you have been announcing small acquisition So but and at the same time, it's minority stake. So just wanted, you know, to know your strategy behind acquiring a minority stake and not going for a majority. And, you know, also, if you can give some examples in terms of how these are helping India I know you mentioned we are part in the in your earlier calls. But let's say how India market is targeting, you know, in charging the SaaS offerings to their clients. For example, 500 per month or so. And as in the amount of setting up a separate sales team for these SaaS offerings. They're too early to say, sir. I think let us let us first build five to 10 sets portfolio of such offering, and then we see if we can, you know, bundle them together, cross sell them together. And these are you know, as I said, most of the mobile SaaS has started three years ago. It is mobile SaaS has a story. It's just three years old story. And I think it is at least stage, you will have to, you know, invest in that sector, nurture the sector, and then look at bundling, integration, cross selling, anything. So I would say that for for the next one or two years, we'll continue with this strategy. And the same time, we'll keep evaluating how do we bundle, how do we cross sell, how do we lead gen for each other. Sure. Thanks. Thanks. And all the best. I'll get back. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, reminder to all the participant that you may use to raise hand option on your screen if you wish to ask a question. So next question is from the line of Kapil Agarwal from Altus Capital. Please go ahead with your question. So hi, sir. My question my first question is, in March 2020, you had 895 crores of cash in your balance sheet, and this was not allocated over the year. And yet, an additional thousand 70 crores was added through QIP. You tell me what your capital allocation plans are? And as a minority shareholder, what what should we expect going forward? At the time of QIP also, last year also, we had given you this, but let me reiterate that. Okay. One, we have about 675 crores of deferred revenue on our books. Now about $6,726 of crores of deferred revenue. So if we had about 950 or thousand crores of total cash, there was 700 crores of deferred revenue. So we had only $3,400 crores of free cash which was available for us to deploy any any risky item. Now given the size of our company and the scale of our operations and expenses, I think that was not enough, though we had done three investments by then. But given this rapid Internet adoption and rapid digital adoption, I think we felt that there is a need for rapid deployment of capital in software as a service payments and commerce related activities. And that is why we raised another thousand 70 crores from the QIP. So from our perspective, as I said, the capital allocation will remain threefold. One, continue to invest organically in our own business by building payments, by building lead management, by building more marketing, by building more going closer to the commerce. Number two, building sales and service operations, the product and technology operations. Number two, we will continue to make investments, minority significant minority investments in the strategic adjacencies just like the power or just like the logistic by super procure or ship with or even the Zoom. And third is look for a possible larger opportunity where we can acquire or invest a larger amount. So I think those the capital allocation will continue to remain threefold. Okay. So my second question is so every business has an inflection point for growth. I felt that over the pandemic last year would have helped your business a lot, but I see the top line growing only at 6%. So what is your take on this? And on on a larger on a long long term scale, not a short term scale, where do you see this growing? Sir, there are two kinds of top line. One is the buyer top line. So buyer top line is has grown at 42% on a quarterly basis. So we used to be at 60,000,000 with this per per month. Now we are at 250 plus million with this per month, which is not monetizable, but India market is free for buyers. The second part is the advertising or sales side of seller monetization. On the seller monetization, again, the top line, what you see is the collections from customer and number of customers. On the number of customer side, we had said that we had significant send back in the quarter one, and it took two quarter for us to recover from that. And we have 4,000 net addition in the last quarter. In terms of collection, the last last quarter, I think we had 37% collection growth, which will go into deferred revenue. And from deferred revenue, it will go into the top line that you measure on the revenue from operations. As I said multiple times that our revenue from operation is typically twenty months moving average of deferred revenue. Okay. So I have one one follow-up question on this. I see even even the number of suppliers growth that that hasn't grown as as much as the paying subscribers have. Right? So you say the paying subscribers haven't grown as much as suppliers have. So I see a bit of concern here because you're not able I see that the winning ability to to convert as the suppliers into paying subscribers. So what is your view on this? Earlier, we used to acquire any kind of supplier. Yeah. Acquiring now we have become very stringent in the kind of suppliers that we acquired. There are minimum x number of completion that somebody has to do. One, the mobile number has to be OTP verified. Supplier must have an email, which is an OTP verified email. Supplier must have a GST number. So GST number is compulsory. And we take the night long location of the supplier. That is also important. So I think we have become a stringent in the in a way, the kind of suppliers that we acquire. So supplier growth has slowed down, and this should help us increase the average revenue per customer, and this should help us contain the churn. Otherwise, lot of suppliers, are fly by night operators. We do not want our platform to become more like a classified platform. Our platform is more like a commerce platform, though it is still an advertising platform, but we do not want to become a classified platform. Alright. Thank you. Thank you. Reminder to all the participant that you may use raise an option on your screen if you wish to ask a question. Next question is from the line of Kushagar Bhattav of Old Vrith Capital. Please go ahead. Thanks for the opportunity again. Just one question. So how do you gauge entry of, you know, Tata Digital and Amazon into providing digital enablement tools to SMEs? I mean, does it pose any challenge to India Mart? And also, I read a couple of news articles which mentioned that the deal between the Tata's and India Mart didn't go through. So exactly, you know, what happened out there, if you can help us understand this, it will be important. I also read in the newspaper. I I if you come to know anything about that, do let me know. I'm also my wife was also asking the same question. What are you doing without telling me? On the general thing that how the entry of different set different people are in the b two b. Let us try take another question and and from Somershaw. Can you try and draw a picture of the b two b landscape? No. So land b two b land b two b and SME are two very generic words. There can be it could be between the normal dealer distribution supply chain. There can be SME, which is old economy SME. There could be new economy SMEs. There could be service oriented SMEs. So if you look at the entire b two b and SME market, there are multiple businesses which operate and we say that they are serving some of the other section of the b two b and SME. So for example, there are direct deal and product catalog like us who help software as a service and who help transaction and who help access to market. There are companies which are purely and purely working on access to finance. There are companies which are purely and purely working in the FMCG sector. So such as Walmart wholesale, which are metro cash and carry. They are b two b, and they are purely and purely in the FMCB category. Then there are certain category and industry specific b to b. So for example, you might have heard companies like, you know, Bizongo, Intradark Market, Jetworks, which are in a very different sector. I'm I'm pretty sure when when somebody like Tata, when somebody like Amazon, and when somebody like Alibaba or India market plan, they have definitely have studied a particular sector properly, and their entry will at least bring some more innovative solution and will bring some more people on the ground and will bring some more capital to the industry, and which will, in turn, help the entire industry grow. In terms of whether it will be advantageous for us or disadvantages because we are at the leadership of the position. I feel that it will be advantageous for us because currently, it is not that the entire market is saturated and we will lose the market share. The market is developing faster than what we can actually chew on. So I think it will actually develop the market bigger. And being a leadership position, we should be able to take better advantage of the innovation or processes that happen in the market if more people are coming. Sure. That's great. Thanks. Yeah. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Santel Lekka, concept invest well. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi. My question is that what India market is doing, which is going to be different than its peers to stay more competitive in this field? I think, Puneet, if you can put up the last slide again, the we yes. Yes. So we are we we continue to first of all, we continue to focus on our discovery part because we believe that in the within the b to b, there is so many categories and so much of work on digitization need to be done. I don't think basic digitization helps there. You need a lot of category domain knowledge. Verticals do not help there because there is not enough buyer and supplier threshold. So for as a horizontal, there is a lot of challenge and lot of problem solving that is there by way of solving the discovery parts. We started with simple products, the listings. And today, we have products, specification, photos, videos. Now we have reviews, ratings, quotations, invoicing, buyer supplier chat. You know, all of that, we continue to build. And then I think this light blue color items where which are more related to business enablement and commerce. We will continue to build partnership and solutions in the area of payment, logistics, and tracking. Somebody said that what is the why are we investing in the logistics side? I can see his question on the comment box. Anansha. So I think should we not end it very important on that side? If some many of our supplier and buyer interact with each other after they have interacted on the platform, and then they want a very very good Amazon like service or very good ship, you know, Shopify like service or b two c like service even for a b two b product tracking. So they would want to utilize a tracking system more which has ship where it has developed. Also, corporations, they want more procurement management system or our transport procurement management system is, like, super procure. So I think what we are trying to build is the jigsaw puzzle slowly and slowly building, and I think trying to create an ecosystem and become the operating system for the for the small business, which is very different than many others are doing. So I think everybody is a very different company. And as I said, the market is too huge and too much evolving right now. It will require multi multiple companies to help SMEs, to help different industries, and to help different different transaction pieces within the b two b and SME segment. Okay. My second question is on where do you see the potential for the future growth? I mean to say, like, if I divide the boundaries means the geographical areas into metropolitan cities or the tier two, tier three cities. As per you, where do you see the future potential? Like, we are targeting 5,000 new additions every every quarter. And going forward also, we think we can grow at that pace. So where do you think that this number growth can be possible for us to come from? So I think the if you look at the slide paying subscription suppliers percentages, the 50% growth will keep on coming from the metro cities only. Currently, is 57%. Maybe it can, you know, go to 55, 50%. And tier three cities do mostly contribute towards the they are buyers. They are not sellers. So rest of India is only fifteen, ten, 15% in terms of seller base, but very high in the buyer base. So I think tier one and tier two monetization is the max maximum going to happen. Over the time, I guess, it will remain sixty forty or it will remain at at best, it will become fifty fifty. But 50% growth will continue to come from metro cities. Got it. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Amit Chandra, SDFC Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you, and thanks for the opportunity. Can you hear me? I'm audible? Yes, Amit. We can hear you. Yes, sir. So, Manav, so my my question is related to the, you know, a little bit churn rate. So, Manav, what has been churn rate especially in the golden platinum package? And have have we seen any increase in the churn rate especially in the in Especially in the premium packages over the last one year. So I know that there has been increasing churn in the, you know, entry packages, you know, because of pandemic. So because of the, you know, like, over the last, you know, like, one quarter, know, the most of the premium packages, like, came for renewal. So what has been the experience there? And also in terms of the paying supplier mix, you as you said, you know, around, like, two third of our paying suppliers are on annual package. So what is the aging there if we can if we can throw some light there? So, you know, like, within the annual annual paying suppliers, how many of them are on the platform for more than one year, three year, five years? So, you I just wanted to understand the, you know, like, long term long term distinct stickiness on the platform. Yes. So in the chat in terms of churn, as I have already said, let me give you renewal figures rather than giving you churn figures. So in the platinum customers, we had less than 6% or less than half a percent monthly churn where the customers left us. However, the renewal of platinum platinum services has deteriorated by 10% ever since the pandemic set in last year. Similarly, for the gold customer, the churn is about 12% per annum, about 1% per month. Even there, I think the renewal rates have fallen by 10%. So if earlier, 80% of the people used to renew, currently, about 70% of the people are renewing. Similarly, now coming to the silver annual, there, we used to have a churn rate of about 2% per month, about 25% per annum. There, we are definitely seeing about 10% increase in share. It could be short term because many of the businesses have gone out of favor. So and now that there is a second wave, it can be even more difficult. In terms of monthly, as I said, the the there is a higher number of customers joining in and the higher number of customer leaving in leaving out because on one side, there is not enough business in the market. On the other side, there is not enough survival only on the Internet. So I think people are trying the platform. Some of the people finding the platform very useful, and some of the people are leaving the platform. But overall, renewal rates have, in general, gone down by 10. If they were 80%, they've gone to 70%. If they were 60 per 70%, they've gone to 60%, and so on. And, sir, also on the aging of the of the of the premium on the suppliers. Oh, yes. Sorry. I was yeah. So the out of the total 158,000 customers 152,000. 52,000 customers. So about one third of the customer are less than one year. Between one to three years, about 30% of the customers are there. And about 40% of the customers are more than three years with us. Okay, sir. Answer, you know, on the on the investments, also, I know I know that, you we're not, you know, trying to step up investments. But, you know, I do think that we are adequately invested to fuel around 20% growth for the next few years. And, you know, if if required, then, you know, like, what are the areas where we are trying to increase the investments? So is it is it mostly sales, technology, or, you know, like, which areas are, you know, in the in the focus in terms of investments and also in terms of competition, you with a lot of new competitors coming in. So how do you view the market? You know, is there a score for, you know, a large player, like, coming in and India might also growing along with them. So is there a scope enough scope in the market for, you know, a dual player? And also, I know your views on, you know, the recent launch of, you know, this JD Mart, and have you seen any increased competition from there? As I said earlier let me first answer your second part of the question. As I said earlier also, that entry of multiple people into different areas of b two b or different areas of SME or different areas of with the transaction or with the discovery or with the financing will only help the ecosystem and only help the market grow. Coming to a specific question about this dial entering into this particular space, I think this particular space is driven by network effects. Obviously, anybody who comes in will definitely get some market share, but they will also help educate lot more number of customers, and that should help us. It is very, very early right now for us to see any significant or any even insignificant not a single customer has come back and told us that we are leaving because of JD Mart or something like that. So I don't think that is any near term problem. In the longer run, I guess those who execute well, those who have a better better network effect or better behavioral data, they will probably prevail. On your second part, which you asked first about the investments that we are making. So first, we will continue to make inorganic investment in the inorganic opportunities, which we which may not add immediate revenue to our consolidation, but I think they will build the ecosystem around our consolidation. At at some point of time, we may find some acquisition or the or revenue consolidation opportunity there. On the organic side, I think a lot of investment has gone into developing the CRM and buyer profile site. That is paying good returns right now. Our investment in the payment gateway, when it was made, at that point of time, UPI was all almost not there. Now UPI is everywhere. So I think the need of that particular payment gateway is reduced only to the trust related item rather than the actual payment processor related item. In terms of other areas, we continue to evaluate what are the other areas that we can look into. A lot of our money would be invested in category development because as I said, every category need to be understood. Domain knowledge need to be built. So category development would be definitely an area of investment. Some of the business enablement software, we may want to build internally as well, and we may want to invest in it while as well. So these are the areas of investment will happen. But then they will result into only a 10 20% growth. I don't really like a 20% growth. Historically, we have been more than 25% growth company. There could be one year here and there where we are going lesser than that. But frankly speaking, I I prefer a better growth over a longer period of time. Mhmm. So just let I know. Just one last question from my side. I just want one clarification. You mentioned that, I know, for I know for being registered as a supplier, you need, I know, you you need a using GST number. Out of these 6,500,000 suppliers that are registered on the platform, so how many of them are I don't know. Don't know. Because in India, we have around 12,700,000, I don't know, the GST bills. So this 6,500,000, I don't suppliers are all the GST registered or if you if if you can provide the mix out of the 6,500,000, how many are, like, GST? We we haven't we haven't yet provided the exact number of the GST verified customers. We are in the process of doing that. We will be able to to provide that some point of time. As of now, we have not provided. I will note down your suggestion and maybe try to cover this as part of our annual report. Okay. No. Because I don't in terms of paying suppliers, I am aware that, you know, when we get out of GST number, you you cannot become a paying supplier. But for a free supplier, we don't Almost 99% of our paying supplier are now just registered or 98%. There could be some older suppliers whom who are GST exempt or so that we take. So you are correct. On this six six million, I can give you the exact number after looking back because there are there are cases where we have GST available, but we have not been able to verify. There are cases where GST is available and we have been able to verify. So I will clarify that maybe in the next quarter or in the annual report. Thank you, sir. And thanks for the opportunity and all the best. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Ajay Modi, adviser. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, Dinesh and team. Help me understand this. I I am a little confused, and I am trying to summarize my thoughts of the last one hour call so far. So we are in in building what we are trying to do or or enable a lot more transaction, enable more of logistics and ease of business, a lot of exam. But at the same time, if I look at being subscriber as a percentage of total suppliers to France, it has dropped from 3.1% in FY sixteen to 2.3% in FY twenty one. Now if you say that your target is 5,000 additions per quarter, which is about 20,000 subscriber additions per year, and the ARPU remaining at growth of a half percent. We are looking at the actual growth of not more than 20%. If you say 25% growth is your aspiration, the annual subscriber base has to be about 28,000 subscribers to 30,000 subscribers. I I mean, even if I rule out the last one year, struggling base for most organizations, most SMEs. Still, the number is not I mean, what I see is that conversion rate has gone down from three to three and a half percent kind of conversion to half kind of conversion. While we are delivering a lot more inquiries, I mean, inquiries have grown at 40%, grown at a very higher rate. But seems like there is low pricing power or or adaptivity is still low. That's my that's brief of my first question. I'll have my second question later. Yeah. So you're I think you have mean, what is right that adaptability is still and adaptability will happen. The adaptability will will happen over the period of time and as the product evolves. Especially, you know, in the last two, three years, there has not been many, many different, you know, hiccups for the economy, be it the monetization, be it GST, or be it, you know, the pandemic. So and you are correct that the growth formula that we have for twenty five percent is 5% quarter on quarter on the customer edition and five to 10% coming from the ARPU. So you are right, Deepak, that we need to do a net addition of about 10 30,000 if we want to have our escalation at 25% or more. Given that, you know, the last couple of quarters and last couple of years, we have not been able to do more than 20,000 subscribers per annum. But for example, in the f y eighteen nine f y nineteen, we did about 22,000, which was high in f y seventeen. Also, we did about 24,000. So I think we should be looking at 25 to 30,000 net addition. And as the business and economy stabilizes, I'm pretty sure that our platform can deliver and will deliver value for '25 to 30,000 customers. My second and quick question is that, globally, there is a model where a lot of Internet companies give up free one month premium subscription for for subscribers to take a look and feel, understand how technology can add value to their business. Have we tried something of that sort? Pardon me. Can you can you repeat that question again? What I'm trying to say is that, globally, there is a model where lot of Internet companies give one month free subscription. So one month free for a premium service. And and that what that does is basically it gives the subscriber a feel of what they will get, how paying money will add value to them. Have we tried something of that sort? So, Nava, this is basically a premium model. So 98% of the people who do not pay, they continue to get some value. Unlike in the SaaS, they do not have a freemium, so they offer a free trial. In our case, anybody who is not paying is a freemium So people can come and try the the the platform, how it works in their category, what kind of leads are there in their category. People can use individual buy leads to check what kind of buyers are there in that category. So I don't think acquisition is a problem. The problem is a longer term retention. Some of it could be because of our own platform, our pricing, and some of it because of the external factors of the SME and the Indian ecosystem, the way it has been evolving. So simple question here. What, I mean, one, is it possible for us to go to conversion rate of 5%, meaning 5% of paid subscriber as a percentage of total student run? Out out of the total subscribe total supplier, 6,400,000, now that we have to look at only the GST enabled supplier, so that's why I say that the total supplier base, let us not look at this 6,000,000. Let us look at the, you know, 10 to 12,000,000 total supplier GST supplier that we have in the country. Out of that, I think the product oriented b to b oriented suppliers should should be anywhere around, you know, two to 3,000,000 suppliers. And of that two to 3,000,000 suppliers, we should be able to get 10 to 20% penetration. Okay. Understood. Understood. Thank you for your time. Prateek, can you take this question from mister Wall, w a l l? One of the acquisitions Super Procure has its revenue drop from 10 to 1.5 crore. I think they used to be a a logistics GV. Yeah. So so, yeah, so so people secured when it started they started with a very different model in which we're trying to pretty much provide the logistics services to devices. And that's the year in which you see a much higher revenue. Or if you look at, you know, on the profitability side, they made lots of debt. During the course, they've been able to turn to a completely software service provider. And that's why you would see that there while the revenue is declined, but the profitability is is somewhat better. And also, just to add your to your question, this 1.5 crores revenue is f y 20 revenue. So which is one year of last year last to last year's revenue. I think it is not very not correct. Would be inaccurate to say 30 x of the sales. They are growing at more than 100% year on year. So, Deniz, due to time constraint, we will like to take the question from the line of Anand Privedi, Neptune Capital. Please go ahead, Anand. Yeah. Thanks, Dinesh. I have a quick question on the margins. In the fourth quarter, your margins have gone up from 31 to 48%, considering the for the full year from 26 to 49%. Now from what I can see in the presentation, that's because the manpower cost and the other costs have gone down. The question I have is, you know, how sustainable is this? Where do you see your margins in the coming year? We we we have been giving this guidance earlier also that we were at 25 to 30% margin company, EBITDA margin company because of the certain temporary and permanent measures that we took during this pandemic and lockdown and work from home, the margins are looking like 45 to 50%. However, those are not sustainable. Almost half of those margins will come down, and we will probably become a 35 to 40% kind of a margin company when it all settles down rather than a 25 to 30% or 45 to 50%. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. With with this, we come to an end of the q and a session. And now I hand over the call to the management for their closing remarks. So, Dinesh, for for your closing remarks, please. Yes, Ankam. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for joining our quarter four and full year conference call. In the end, I would like to assure you that we will continue to support and stand by our customers, vendors, and employees in these trying times. And we will emerge out stronger from this crisis. We have tried to address most of your queries in the time available. But if you still have any of the queries, please free to contact our investor relations team, and they would be more than happy to help you on email and on phone calls. Thank you very much. Stay safe. Take care of your families, and let us pray to god that this pandemic ends soon. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. On behalf of IndiaMark, that concludes this webinar. Thank you.