Afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Sunita, the moderator for this conference. Welcome to the Indus Towers Limited, Third Quarter Ended, December 31st, 2024, Earnings Call. For the duration of the presentation, all participants' lines will be in the listen-only mode. After the presentation, the question-and-answer session will be conducted for all the participants on this call. In case of a natural disaster, the conference call will be terminated post an announcement. Present with us on the call today is the Senior Leadership Team of Indus Towers.
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As held by Vodafone PLC. Before I delve deeper into major business developments, I would like to take a moment to acknowledge the dedication and perseverance of our teams on the ground, who braved harsh conditions and worked around the clock to ensure seamless connectivity. During the quarter, we installed towers in some of the most geographically challenging locations in the country, including Leh, Ladakh, and Tamil Nadu, as well as Mechuka in Arunachal Pradesh. The efforts of the field team are praiseworthy, which help in digital inclusion of people in these locations. Moving to the regulatory landscape, the government continues to take steps to help accelerate the rollout of telecom infrastructure in the country, while being cognizant of the environmental aspect. The recently announced Right of Way Rules 2024 have been implemented from 1st January 2025 and have to be mandatory followed by the state.
The rules aim to resolve interpretational issues within the industry and ensure efficient deployment of telecom infrastructure, among other things. The center is coordinating with all stakeholders, including state governments and industry bodies, to provide support for resolution of initial teething issues. Additionally, the Green Energy Open Access Policy has been notified in almost 24 states, which will be a key enabler, not only for driving use of renewable energy, but also making the energy consumption more efficient. The composite billing scheme, introduced a few quarters back, has now been implemented in 11 states, including the likes of Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh, and Maharashtra. The scheme can optimize the overall billing process by combining the bills for multiple connections and easing the handling of hundreds and thousands of bills.
Moving on to 5G, the industry-wide total number of 5G BTS deployed stands at almost 465,000, with over 50,000 BTS being deployed in the last calendar year. Though the pace of deployment has slowed down, 5G loading contributes meaningfully to the overall loading revenue. We expect the 5G loading revenues to be gradually supplemented by a demand for new sites once a certain penetration level is achieved to aid the network decommissioning. Given our expertise in the passive infrastructure space, we believe that we are well placed to capitalize on these opportunities. Swift deployment of 5G infrastructure is expected to be complemented by a rapid uptake of 5G by the end consumer as well, as per statistics mentioned in the Ericsson Mobility Report. As per the report, global 5G subscriptions are expected to reach over 6.3 billion by 2030, accounting for around 67% of the total subscriptions.
During the September quarter, global 5G subscriptions grew by 163 million to a total of 2.1 billion, with 4G subscriptions falling by 69 million. In India, 5G subscriptions are expected to reach around 970 million by the end of 2030, accounting for 74% of mobile subscriptions. As per the latest TRAI report, total 5G subscription base in India grew to 218 million at the end of Q2, FY25, increasing by 28 million quarter on quarter. Comparatively, 4G subscriptions saw a decline of 29 million. Data consumption in the country remains robust, aided by the rapid uptake of 5G and the continued upgrade from 2G- 4G. The average data consumed per user per month across the top three operators grew 13% year-on-year to 26.6 GB for the quarter ended September 2024, with the total data consumed growing 21% year-on-year.
Additionally, as per TRAI, 5G data consumption grew 12% quarter on quarter to 12.8 billion GB and contributed to 22.7% of total data usage in Q2, FY25, compared to 20.3% in Q1, FY25. With the driving data consumption and the rapid integration of 5G, the demand for passive telecom infrastructure is expected to rise continuously to add more capacity, and we possess the capability to effectively cater to this increasing demand. Now, moving to operational performance, we recorded a robust tower and tenancy additions in Q3. During the quarter, we added 4,985 micro towers and 7,583 corresponding co-locations. The total micro towers and co-locations base grew by 10.8% and 7.2% each year-on-year, standing at 134,643 and 386,819, respectively. A significant number of tenancy additions during the quarter helped our industry-leading tenancy ratio to remain stable at 1.65, which has been declining for many quarters.
Addition of co-locations and Lean Towers grew at 132 in Q3, and the overall base increased to 11,492 co-locations. Including Lean Towers, our net co-location additions were at 7,715 in Q3 versus 4,490 in Q2. Following on from our operational performance, I would now like to provide an update on the progress we have made for each of our four key strategic priorities, namely market share, cost efficiency, network optimization, and sustainability. Regarding market share, we are proud to have maintained a dominant share in the business of our major customers. This has been underpinned by the digital interventions we have been taking across the value chain and continued strengthening of our partner ecosystem, which has resulted in a reduction in turnaround time for a tower site. Our effective employee incentive and recognition programs, along with regular review mechanisms, are also critical to our performance.
Our in-building solutions, IBS portfolio, continue to witness good traction, and we are pleased to have recorded the highest quarterly IBS deployment in our history. We expect this momentum to continue as we continue to work towards strengthening our IBS portfolio. The resumption of the network expansion by a major customer both went for us. Similar to Q3, we believe that we are well placed to capture a meaningful share of its tenancy additions in the coming quarters as well. Secondly, on operational and cost efficiency, we are working on optimizing both operating and capital expenses. Energy accounts for a sizable amount of our OpEx, and diesel costs make up a large part of it. Our ongoing initiatives, including electrification of non-electrified sites and deployment of energy storage solutions, have yielded an 8% year-on-year reduction in diesel consumption in quarter ending Q3.
We also continue to focus on increasing the share of renewable sources of energy, with our solar site growing to over 28,000. We continue to optimize our rental costs through product design and negotiation strategy based on benchmarking, prioritization of sites, and landlord segmentation. To manage our network costs, we are working on improving the productivity of technicians through benchmarking and optimizing their scope of work through the use of digital interventions. On CapEx, we continue to transition our battery portfolio to lithium-ion batteries, which have a lower charging time and a longer life, thus providing both operating and cost efficiencies. Similarly, our tower portfolio is also pivoting towards an increased share of light tower variant, which has helped us reduce our civil and product costs.
Thirdly, on network uptime, which is very critical for our customers and us, we continue to maintain a very high uptime and delivered an uptime of 99.98% in Q3, FY25, compared to 99.96% in Q2. Please note that the quarter was marked by severe natural calamities such as Cyclone Dana in Orissa and heavy rains and thunderstorms in areas of Rajasthan and Punjab, among others. Despite these challenges, our field force ensured a high level of uptime. On the front of sustainability, which remains a key priority of organization, our initiatives towards reducing utility emissions continue to reap dividends. We continue to work towards reducing our dependency on fossil fuels for our energy needs by transitioning to renewable sources of energy. Our solar portfolio stands at over 28,000 at the end of Q3.
In order to expand our renewable energy portfolio, we have entered into a power purchase agreement with a strategic partner for procurement of renewable energy, around 130 megawatt solar plant under captive mode. As part of the agreement, we required 26% of the equity shares of the said entity for a consideration of around INR 38 crores. The sustainability practices of our partners are also important to us, and we conducted ESG training of close to 100 major partners during the quarter. We also continue to work towards increasing the usage of EV vehicles for business travel. We were happy to see our efforts in the environment domain recognized, being bestowed with the Great Indian Sustainable Performance in Energy Efficiency award by CII. In our workforce, our gender diversity stood at 14.2% in Q3, FY25, compared to 11.3% in the corresponding period last year.
We continue to make efforts towards improving gender diversity across the value chain, and to this end, we launched HER Success Program during the quarter. The program focuses on mutual sharing of proven strategies, best practices, and success stories with the partners to drive progress. On the CSR front, we carried out relief activities related to floods in Bihar, reporting over 2,000 lives. We were pleased to see a social initiative being recognized by multiple bodies. In Q3, we won the Mahatma Award 2024 for CSR excellence and the Gold Award under Social Initiative category at Bharti Changem aker Awards 2024. The quarter witnessed landmark decisions from the Honorable Supreme Court and Delhi High Court for resolution of the long-standing tax matters of the industry. I believe that the decisions are progressive and will support the investment in the sector. I will have Vikas share more details on this.
I will now request Vikas to take it to a financial performance for the quarter ended December 31, 2024, and I look forward to your questions. Over to you, Vikas. Thank you.
Thank you, Prachur, and good afternoon, everyone. I'm pleased to share with you all the financial results for the quarter ended 31st December 2024. We are pleased to report a strong financial performance for the quarter, underpinned by substantial tower and co-location additions. Our financial performance was further supplemented by the clearance of a substantial part of overdue from a major customer. In quarter three, total revenues grew by 4.8% year-on-year to INR 75.5 billion, while the core revenues from rental grew by 7.5% year-on-year to INR 48.2 billion, driven by strong tower and co-location additions. On a quarter-on-quarter basis, our reported gross revenue and core revenue from rental increased by 1.1% and 2.3%, respectively.
In terms of profitability, EBITDA stood at INR 70 billion, growing 93% year-on-year and 43% quarter-on-quarter. EBITDA margin increased by 42.4 percentage points year-on-year and 27 percentage points quarter-on-quarter to 92.7%. Please note that during the quarter, we collected INR 19.1 billion from monetization of the secondary pledge on the shares held by Vodafone PLC in Indus Towers. We also recovered an additional amount against the overdue from a major customer. This resulted in an overall write-back of provision for doubtful debt of INR 30.2 billion, reducing our provision for doubtful debt to about INR 5 billion. The write-back helped our overall profits and, adjusted for the same, EBITDA increased by 8.3% year-on-year and 3.7% quarter-on-quarter. Our energy margins were at - 3.4% in quarter three, compared to - 4.8% in quarter two.
We are taking many initiatives to improve our energy margins, which includes reducing our diesel consumption and increasing the share of renewable energy to benefit from the lower cost. Tying up with strategic partners under Green Energy Open Access, and deploying solar sites are expected to optimize our overall energy cost. Our finance income increased quarter-on-quarter to INR 2.1 billion on account of interest collection from a major customer on its overdues . Our income tax had a benefit of INR 1.4 billion from reversal of provisions following a favorable judgment from Income Tax Appellate Tribunal pertaining to past period. Our profit after tax grew by 160% year-on-year and 80% quarter-on-quarter to INR 40 billion. Adjusted for provision write-backs, our profit after tax increased by 7.7% year-on-year and 9.6% quarter-on-quarter.
The reported pre-tax return on capital employed and post-tax return on equity for the rolling 12 months stood at 29.3% and 34.8%, respectively. We generated free cash flow of INR 26.6 billion in quarter three, underpinned by higher collections. Trade receivables increased by INR 16.9 billion, primarily due to the significant provision reversal against which the amount was collected subsequently in this month. During the quarter, the Honorable Supreme Court, in a landmark ruling, allowed CENVAT credit on towers and shelters, resulting in a reduction of INR 37 billion in our contingent liability. Following the Honorable Supreme Court ruling, the Delhi High Court quashed the show-cause notice issued by the DGGI on the issue of disallowance of input tax credit availed by the company on passive infrastructure and towers. This resulted in a reduction of INR 62 billion in our non-contingent liability.
To sum up, we are pleased to have delivered a robust financial performance during the quarter, underpinned by substantial tower and co-location additions. The collection of a significant amount against the overdue of a major customer was another material positive and bodes well for the clearance of the balance amount. Looking ahead, we expect the ongoing network expansion of our customers to act as a key pillar of our growth. I would now request the moderator to open the floor for question and answers, please. Thank you.
Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin the question and answer interactive session for all the participants who are connected to the audio conference service from Airtel. Due to time constraints, we would request if you could limit the number of questions to two to enable more participation. Hence, management will take only two questions per participant to ensure maximum participation.
Participants who wish to ask a question may please press star one on their touch-tone enabled telephone keypad. On pressing star one, participants will get a chance to present their questions on a first-in-line basis. To ask a question, participants may please press star one now. The first question comes from Mr. Kunal from BNP Paribas Mumbai. Mr. Kunal, you may ask your question now.
Yeah. Thanks for the opening comments for a strong quarter. First, your co-location additions this time were much higher versus tower additions. Looks like you're getting new data from Vodafone Idea. So I wanted to get a sense on how the pipeline is looking with both from Airtel and Indus. I know you won't be able to share specific details, but if you can just talk about how the pipeline is looking.
No, thanks. Thanks, Kunal. I think, yes, I think your observation is correct.
It was a strong quarter with both tower and co-location additions. I think our order book remained quite strong, both in towers and co-locations, from all the customers. So I think we expect the growth to remain robust for the foreseeable future.
What's the kind of visibility that you have right now?
I mean, if you're looking at a time frame, I think we're looking at a time frame of visibility of the next three to four quarters. That's what we have today.
Okay. That's helpful. Thank you. And secondly, what's the kind of investment you're looking to make in the EV charging infrastructure? A few years back, you were investing in smart cities. Eventually, it fizzled out. So how different is this opportunity? If you can just give us your sense on what you're looking at here.
Yeah.
I think, Kunal, I think EV and smart city are very different. It was a government-driven initiative. The smart city was a government-driven initiative. From an EV business point of view, it's too early to say on the investment. It's a very early stage discussion that we are currently looking at. We are planning to look at and capitalize on our four strands of managing space, power, and oil. As we expand our discussions with the potential customers on a case-by-case basis, we will make the decisions accordingly. It's a bit early to say any numbers in that side.
If you can just give some sense on what is your right to win, how many sites might have any potential, what's the kind of competition, which is also working on this.
You don't own the land, so how would the deal with landlords work out? Whatever you can provide on this.
Yeah, so again, as I said, I think from a land acquisition perspective, it's quite similar to what we do in the tower space. I think the model for space and power is quite similar to what we do for towers. Maybe some dimensioning is a bit different, and our right to win probably comes from the ability to manage and deliver the sites and provide a large uptime for the chargers, which need to stay up when they are on the streets. So our O&M practices, operation center will give us the right to win. So I think that's the broad thinking on which we have started doing some pilots.
And as we progress, we will understand how big this opportunity can be for us and will keep it for us.
By when do you think we can hear more about this?
Again, as I said, Kunal, it's very early stages. I mean, I can't give you a time frame. I think it's something that we have started just now. So I think as things progress, we'll come to know.
Okay. Thank you. That's it from me. I'll come back and let you know.
Thank you very much, Mr. Kunal. The next question comes from Mr. Manish Adukia from Goldman Sachs, Mumbai. Mr. Adukia, you may ask your question now. Kunal's question.
Now, when you think about the new customer Vodafone Idea, which you said has started rolling out and you have a good share of those rollouts, can you give us a sense of what your market share with Vodafone Idea has been in the new rollout? And is that broadly similar to the market share you have with your number one customer, Bharti Airtel? And is it safe to assume that majority of the rollouts and the visibility that you talked about for the next few quarters for Vodafone Idea, that is largely going to be on existing towers? And for Vodafone Idea in particular, you don't necessarily have to roll out new towers, so they should largely come in the form of tenancies? That's my first question, please.
Thanks for the question.
Again, rather than giving you a specific number of the share, what I can say is, if you've seen the rollouts that we have done over the last couple of years, that has put in a prime position to have towers available for a second tenant. So I think that is a broad strategy that works out. And I think, hence, we are in a pole position to be able to monetize those towers, which are currently single tenant, right? And when I was talking about the next three, four quarters, it could not just be VIL. I was talking about the overall market in terms of pipeline that we have. As far as building new towers for VIL or any other customer, I think it will depend on their planning and network expansion.
I think VIL will not pick and choose, but I'm very confident that with the footprint now that we have for our Bharti towers, we can largely capitalize on them coming as a second tenant. We will make sure that their network expansion plans are met one way or the other.
Got it. Helpful. Just a second quick booking question. So after the collections from Vodafone Idea in the quarter of about INR 30 billion odd in the form of past dues, I know that the outstanding provision amount is about INR 5 billion or thereabouts. Is that all that is remaining now as far as past dues are concerned from Vodafone Idea, or is there anything else on top of that as well? Thank you.
Yeah. Manish, just to clarify, the INR 30 billion is the provision write-back.
Like I had mentioned in my commentary, a large chunk of that has been collected subsequently. But because we had the security with us, we recognize the provision write-back in quarter three itself. As far as the INR 5 billion is concerned, I just want to clarify. This INR 5 billion is the provision for doubtful debts that's remaining after the write-back. Now, just to give you a bit of history, we had provided two years back some of the overdues to sort of de-risk our balance sheet. And as and when we are collecting those overdues, we are writing back the provision. So the INR 5 billion is what is remaining. Obviously, the overall outstanding is more than that because, as we have explained in the past, we have been providing for the overdues which were beyond the credit period and already matured. So the outstanding is not INR 5 billion.
The overall outstanding within the credit period plus the overdue is bigger than that.
Thank you for clarifying. All the best. Thank you.
Thank you very much, Mr. Adukia. The next question comes from Mr. Vivekanand from Ambit Capital, Mumbai. Mr. Vivekanand, you may ask your question now.
Thank you for the opportunity. So the first question that I have is on the capacity. So in any given quarter, what is the maximum number of co-locations that you are capable of rolling out? And is that going to be a constraint at all if Vodafone Idea decides to aggressively expand population coverage like it has suggested? And is there a theoretical limit in terms of, let's say, 20,000, 30,000 co-locations per quarter that your field force is capable of deploying? That's one.
Secondly, as far as the balance sheet is concerned, I see that your debt, excluding these liabilities, is down to only INR 1,000 crore. Now that you are collecting money on time from Vodafone, as well as the company is clearing past deals with you, when can we expect the balance sheet to get more optimized and leverage to come back so that investors get amplification of returns like they do with other global tower companies? Thank you.
So let me answer the first question, and then I'll ask Vikas to answer the second question. So from a capability of co-location deployment, see, once you deploy a brand new tower, co-location deployment is actually very straightforward. So from a technical limit point of view, I think there will be no limit from our side in terms of co-location deployment.
Our turnaround time and our spread of the field force is enough that we can meet all the requirements of co-location orders that come from the customer, right? So I think from a co-location deployment point of view, the technical limit of execution is not much of a constraint. I think as long as we have the first tenant available and the tower is there, the co-location deployment is quite quick. And it is not limited in terms of because we have field force managing the towers that are operating anyways. So I think that is not a constraint from our side. So now I'll ask Vikas to answer the second.
Yeah, sure. So Vivekanand, I think as far as the data is concerned, clearly there is a reduction in this quarter, quarter three.
And that's a function of good cash flow that we've generated in this quarter as a result of better collections, as well as our CapEx cash flow has been lower. And as part of our normal cash management, we have sort of repaid some of our short-term loans, etc., etc., right? So I don't see this, first of all, as a very long-term situation. This is basically just part of our normal cash management. Coming to the long-term view on how the balance sheet can be optimized, clearly we know that there is a lot of headroom. In the past, as I've explained, why we were not very keen about increasing debt levels was because there was a lot of uncertainty that we are facing. Now, with the uncertainty reducing, I think clearly there will be more appetite.
As we go along, there will be capital allocation decisions, etc., that will be made in the next couple of months and quarters. And that will probably improve the leverage situation and the balance sheet optimization. So I think give us a couple of months and quarters, and then we will see how this goes. But currently, we are just sort of coming out of a very uncertain phase with a very good collection in the Q3, Q4 sort of a time period.
Thank you very much for your elaborate answers. All the best. Thank you.
Thank you very much, Mr. Vivekanand. The next question comes from Mr. Sumangal Nevatia from Kotak Securities, Mumbai. Mr. Nevatia, you may ask your question now.
Yeah. Good afternoon, and thanks for the chance. My first question is on our new venture on EV charging.
I appreciate it's very early stage, but just want to understand from a capital allocation point of view, what sort of hurdle rate do we look at when we evaluate and decide to pilot and then maybe eventually sign contracts on this business?
So, I mean, to be honest, hurdle rate, I think, I mean, I think once we are looking at the projects on a case-to-case basis, we are evaluating that. But I think the hurdle rate is going to be in line with what our overall business is, right?
Yeah. Again, Sumangal, I think I just want to probably add to what Prachur said. I think broadly, we have made this announcement. It's early stage. Obviously, we are aspiring for, let's say, mid to maybe somewhere in the double digits, right? So mid to high sort of a double-digit returns.
But currently, the business scale is very small to really talk about returns because currently, we need to first develop this business and see where it goes and see the competitive situation in the market and so on. But obviously, aspirationally, the returns would be are expected to be double-digit.
I understand. And since you've kind of been some sort of pilot, do we have any sense on the time of this business, any external agencies we would have deployed before we, I mean, get into this business?
No, I think, as I said, I think very early stage. I think we are learning as we are doing. I think there are certain parts of pilot work primarily focused on technical feasibility and our ability to deploy. So I think, again, as I said, as we go forward, we'll learn more.
Got it. Got it. One small clarification.
I don't know if this was discussed. I got disconnected. On the dividends, I mean, since we are now coming out of the bad phase and all the debt provisions are largely behind, what should we expect with respect to dividend payout? Do we expect to get back to always paying out almost all of free cash flow eventually?
Yeah. I think the cash flow situation certainly has improved significantly compared to what we were seeing in the past. So with this sort of visibility, we will certainly evaluate the whole situation at the year-end, which is just two, three months away. And I'm sure the board will then take a call on the dividend also. We are fully aware that no dividend has been paid in the last two years, although we did a buyback in quarter two and distributed some cash.
But clearly, by year-end, if we are still in a very strong cash flow situation, I am sure the board will evaluate all this.
Got it. Got it. Thank you, and all the best. Thank you.
Thank you very much, Mr. Nevatia. The next question comes from Mr. Sanjesh Jain from ICICI Securities, Mumbai. Mr. Jain, you may ask your question now.
Yeah. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. A couple of them are bookkeeping questions. I will start with them. First, on the provision reversal, your note to account says that this quarter had the provision reversal of the collection of INR 29 billion. In your opening statement, you suggested INR 30.2 billion. So what is the difference between the two? So I am referring to note to account 11C.
Yeah. Yeah. Hi, Sanjay.
So it's basically the INR 29 billion is the provision reversal on account of the monetization of security and also some of the past collection. And apart from that, there has been some other adjustment also. So the 29.6 that you see in the note to accounts relates to one customer and a specific transaction. But in the overall books, the provision reversal has been INR 30 billion or thereabouts. There are other TDS-related adjustments and so on. So the total number is INR 30 billion. So that's the small difference that we are explaining.
Got it. Got it. That's clear. Second, on the trade receivable, if I look at quarter on quarter, trade receivable has gone from INR 56 billion in last quarter end to INR 73 billion in this quarter. What has led to the sharp increase in the trade receivables?
So in the accounting books, as we write back the provision, because the balance sheet shows the receivables net of provisions, so as we write back the provisions, that goes and sits in the trade receivables. Money was received in January, hence. That's right. That's right. It's just a timing issue. That's a timing issue.
No, that's very clear now. The next question is on the CapEx. We had one of the highest tenancy additions. The CapEx number was quite negative. What explains this CapEx?
No, it's just the sort of procurement sort of a time frame. Obviously, the procurement for the rollouts that we've done were much earlier. And then there is also the adjustment on account of the Supreme Court ruling, wherein we are now able to avail the CENVAT credit on towers.
To that extent, we have also reversed some capitalization to the extent of INR 6.6 billion that we have explained in the notes.
Got it. Got it. Just the follow-up question on the tenancy addition. Again, if you can help us understand or ascertain, what is your existing run rate market share in the Vodafone's rollout? I mean, I think on the market share we had earlier, if not the number.
Yeah. I think, as I said in my statement, I think we are currently the dominant market share here for all our customers that are rolling out. And I think we will continue to do so.
So I mean, we have a dominant market share. Are we also have a dominant incremental market share?
Yes.
Clear. Clear. That's very clear. One last question on the EV infrastructure business. The tower business was quite straightforward for us.
We used to get order, and based on the order, we used to put the tenancy or tower. But in case of EV, we need to choose the location and then look for a potential business out of it. Are we building to expertise? Are we building a different business unit for it? Because though on the face of it, the business note looks same, but the business economics are very different. Will it be run by a separate team as a different TU?
Yeah. See, again, I think since there have been a few questions I'd like to clarify. See, our primary driver of the business remains the tower business. And I think EV is early stage. Of course, we will maintain that difference so that the tower business does not suffer. So I think it's a separate business unit, separate team that is going to drive the business.
As you mentioned earlier, I think there are certain things which are different, especially on the market side. That is why our selection of contracts or the deals that we make with customers will be very prudent in terms of making sure that we are close to the business model that we are doing with towers. I think it is something that will be new to the industry as well. We will be very cautious on that one. But it's a separate business, yeah.
Got it. Also you mentioned that you had one of the highest IBS additions in this quarter. Can you help us understand how big has it become? What is the opportunity? Are we looking at it? Along with that, can you also help us understand the effort what we are doing towards building the micro towers?
Where are we in that ecosystem now? I know we do mention the lean towers, but are they same as micro towers?
So let me first answer the IBS question. I think, like I mentioned in my speech, IBS for last year, we focused a lot on the tower addition. This year, we put a specific effort on making sure that our team, our ways of working, our processes, and even the technology that we are deploying in IBS that now includes 5G, right? We put a robust team and drive behind it. And that has resulted in a very strong uptake and our ability to acquire sites for IBS, even in larger cities. So I think that has been the reason behind the IBS uptake. And I think that has proven to our customers that we can deliver, right?
We are aggressively present in this space and will continue to expand. As far as the micro cells and the lean towers are concerned, I think Vikas can correct, but it's a little bit of a customized solution based on what the customer is asking for any given site. And I think we have that capability to provide those customized solutions as the requirement comes.
Yeah. Pretty much right, Prachur, as you said. There are solutions required for the customer need. It could be the small 3-meter and 6-meter and 9-meter kind of pole structures or the single one-sector, two-sector, depending upon their coverage requirements. That's how the micro cell structures are built up. But pretty much, we have the solutions to cater to all the needs.
Got it. Got it. That's pretty much clear now.
On the loss we are making on the energy, that continues to remain sticky, though the diesel proportion has been coming down and the renewable proportion is going up, but the percentage loss has been sticky. Can we expect some reduction starting FY26 as a percentage of energy margin losses?
Yeah. I think that's a good question. I think, see, if you see quarter on quarter, there is some improvement. But I think there is a lot of effort going there. The reason sometimes you do not see the impact of, let's say, the solar sites or something coming in because it's a different revenue model. So the solar revenue gets captured as service revenue, not in the energy. So you may not see that impacting the energy margin per se, but it is there in the service revenue. So if you bring that here, the margin definitely improves.
So I think overall, on the energy side, while I think there is still a lot of work to be done, some of them always remains a timing issue in terms of how the energy margin looks like. But I believe as we move forward, as we put in more and more efforts on renewable, I think these numbers will continue to improve.
Thank you. I got one last question on the rental per tenant, which has grown 0.7% sequentially, while our tenancy sharing has been improving, which should have ideally led to some dilution in the rental per tenant as the tenancy sharing goes up. Was it a timing issue, and that should start showing up from Q4, or do you think the loading will still be driving this rental per tenant going up even in the end-to-end quarters?
So Sanjay, let me explain this.
I mean, as far as the ARPT metric is concerned, like we've explained in the past also, there are several variables and moving parts that impact this metric. But particularly referring to quarter three movement over last quarter, that's largely. There is another element, which is basically the seasonality, right? So Q3, Q4 generally are seasonally good quarters for Indus Towers in terms of weather, the electricity availability, etc., etc. So we have better uptime, lower diesel costs, and so on. And sometimes better uptime also translates into sort of better ARPT. So particularly for this quarter, while there are other moving parts also, but the single biggest factor is also the fact that there is a seasonality benefit.
Got it. Got it. But structurally, as the tenancy sharing goes up, the ARPT should slightly come down, right?
Yeah.
To some extent, you're right because there is always a tenancy discount that kicks in. So ARPT logically should come down. But like I said, we cannot attribute the movement in ARPT to single factor. There are mix of towers. There is tenancy. There is renewal discount. There is loading. There is 5G. There is seasonality. So there are several factors. So something or the other keeps playing in this little movement that we see every quarter.
Got it. Got it. One probably last question. In the opening remarks, you said that now the loading is catching up, and we are nearing the 5G tenancy rollout. In how many quarters do you think you'll start seeing the 5G standalone tenancy being rolled out by the operators?
I mean, to be honest, I can't answer that question right now.
I think let's see how the proliferation of 5G is, and then we'll come back. It's too early to say if you're going to see something like that happening soon.
It's just something that is driven by the data uptake at the operator end and how they want to cater to that data need. So I think it's a little not easy to kind of predict when the 5G standalone things will be coming in. But the rollout 5G, in any case, has also slowed down a little bit.
Got it. If in terms of adding more tenancy, or you don't see that happening?
Can you repeat? Sorry, I missed that.
Will the FWA rollout by Airtel, will that help in adding more tenancies?
No, I think the 5G coverage will cover that part. I think I don't see it.
FWA is got nothing to do with tenancies.
It is the 5G network and the last mile reach of 5G into the homes is what FWA caters to. So they're using the on-air capacity, and FWA is the last mile element there. I'm sorry, there is a queue building up, Sanjay. So maybe we can discuss offline if there's anything more.
Yeah. We'll come back in the team. Thanks. Thanks for offering me this opportunity. Thank you.
Thank you very much, Mr. Jain. Participants, who wish to ask questions, may please press star one. The next question comes from Mr. Arun Prasath from Avendus Spark . Mr. Prasath, you may ask your question now.
Got an opportunity. Good evening, everyone. So my first question is on the anchor tenant characteristics. Vodafone no longer is shareholder. Are they still anchor tenant, or there is any?
What are the perks that the benefits that we had because of the anchor tenancy we came to have or came to lose because of this?
I mean, give me time to understand your question, guys. I don't think shareholders and anchor tenant have any correlation per se. I think anchor tenant is somebody who makes the tower, gives us the order of the tower, and becomes the rollout. The initial rollout when the tower is being built, that becomes the anchor tenant. So I think shareholding and anchor tenant have no correlation. So I think if we make towers for VIL, as per their request, and it's a new tower, they would become the anchor tenant. If you do it for Airtel, they will become the anchor tenant or for Jio. So I think anchor tenancy and shareholding have no relation.
And just to add, commercially, there is no difference, Arun, if that's what you're trying to understand.
Okay. But they will be still building towers for Vodafone if they request?
Yeah. See, at the end of the day. You think at their current? Yeah. I mean, if there is a need for them to build new towers and the existing towers or co-locations do not serve the purpose, then we'll have a look at it because we have to help them with the network expansion. Of course, our primary aim is to support as much co-location as possible. But if there is a network expansion requirement, we will continue.
Right. And now that we are finally fully out of the bad debts and the recoverability issue, in future, if this kind of situation repeats, what do we have which can where the things can play differently?
Do we have any plan or any levers to tackle the same issues in a different manner in the future?
So I think you're asking something which has not happened. So I can't give you a response. But I think one, two years ago, when we were having the discussion, I think we were quite confident that we will be in the situation we are in today. So I think the patience has paid off, and I think we are at a point where we are getting our deals collected, and we are also participating in network expansion. So as the situation comes, based on the kind of situation, the management and the board will act accordingly and make sure the interest of the company is protected. So that's the answer I can give you.
In the weighing, in the past, we had some kind of security in terms of their interest in our stakeholder shareholding pattern, which no longer will be there. So initially, we had the cushion. Probably going forward, we will not have. So that's the basis behind the question. But nevertheless, because I think you are also actively pursuing the business from the BSNL expansion also. Is it the right understanding?
Yes. I think whenever available, we are serving BSNL as a customer, and I think we will continue to do that. I think BSNL is an important customer for us.
So typically, we have government being government, BSNL being counterparts. Again, the receivable issues kind of crop up. We have seen it in the multiple other sectors.
What kind of a framework do we have to tackle these kinds of risks to safeguard the risk and the risks coming from these future businesses? Any thoughts on that?
I think just to give you a sense that BSNL is not just future business. We actually have existing tenancies with BSNL, and we have been working with them for quite some time, and we have an MSA under which we operate. Of course, the issues that come across, we handle on a case-to-case basis. BSNL is not just future business. We have existing tenancies with BSNL, and we have a relationship where we work with them to see that we get paid on time. I think we have seen some good progress in the last one year in this front as well.
Right.
Any indication from their side how their rollout looks like and what kind of a business you expect in terms of relatively with respect to, say, Vodafone's business or versus Bharti's business? Some color on that piece? Is it very clear to you?
No, I cannot compare with the others. All I know is that BSNL is actively looking to upgrade their network. So all our tenancies are getting the wherever they're asking, they're providing the upgrades to 4G. And wherever there is a co-location requirement, we are making sure that we are serving them. So I think that's and we are actively working with them to make sure that any co-location that they're offering in the market, we are there and trying to capture that market.
Okay. Okay.
Regarding the investment in the energy business, not the separate one, but within the power energy business, so far, I think if you can broadly split the CapEx that we have spent in the last three years on the core business, this is what we have invested in the energy. That will help us in understanding the magnitude of the investment we have made.
Arun, basically, energy is also part of our core business because in the end, while we report the two revenues separately, but in the end, they are one business, right? Broadly, if you are referring to the replacement CapEx, as we have clarified in the past, roughly 20% of our CapEx goes in replacement, and then roughly 5%-10% in other things like IT and a few other initiatives.
But broadly, we really don't track energy because, for example, if we are replacing a battery, whether that's a replacement CapEx or energy CapEx, I mean, how do we really classify that? So we really don't differentiate energy CapEx.
Okay. Okay. So putting in another way, so if we are spending close to INR 800 crores of maintenance CapEx roughly every year, so this energy CapEx will go into the maintenance one?
Yeah. Our replacement CapEx is more than 800. So any energy CapEx is pretty much part of the replacement run.
But I think you keep calling it energy CapEx. It's not energy CapEx. That is required to provide energy and provide the uptime. So I don't think we should look at it that way. It's an energy CapEx. I mean, providing power is our core business. So I don't think energy CapEx should be looked at in that sense.
Yeah. Okay. Okay. And anything you can call out on the investments in the renewables within this?
No, I mentioned to you. I think, first of all, in the past, we have rolled out about 28,000 solar sites. So I think that is part of the CapEx, upgrade CapEx that is there. And in future, besides solarizing the individual sites, we are looking at investment in green open access, where I mentioned in my talk that we have signed a PPA with a strategic partner of 130 megawatts at a 26% equity. So that's the two elements I could highlight from a renewable point of view.
All right. Thank you. Thanks for answering all the questions on the basis.
Thank you, Arun.
Thank you very much, Mr. Prasath. The next question comes from Mr. Ronil Shah from Anvil Wealth Management, Mumbai. Mr. Shah, you may ask your question now.
Moving to the next participants. We do have a follow-up question from Mr. Vivekanand from Ambit Capital, Mumbai. Mr. Vivekanand, you may ask your question now.
Thanks for the follow-up opportunity. As for the DoT, India has around 817,000 towers. Now, you have 235,000 towers. IP-1s has around 258 towers, and BSNL has 70,000. So who has the lesser remaining towers? And are there any consolidation opportunities left in the tower space for you presently? Secondly, can you talk about the size of the revenue pools that are there in the small cells and lean tower markets compared to the current macro tower opportunity that you're pursuing? Thank you.
Again, I'll try to see if I can answer this question. So what you're asking is, if there are any other major players from a tower point of view, not that I'm aware of, right?
So I think we can look at the numbers again on what because DoT may have some numbers which are actually not radiating also, right? So I think that could play a part in that number game. But I think the tower players you listed out, which seems to be correct. And your second question was that besides macro, what are the markets that we can participate in? I mean, if that's what you were implying. So I think besides macro, as I mentioned, small cells, Lean Towers. Lean Towers, we have deployed close to 11,000 over the last couple of years. IBS portfolio is becoming stronger for us, and I think we have become a supplier. We have started to become a supplier of choice for IBS, for our major customer. And we continue to provide bespoke solutions as far as small cells are concerned based on customer requirements.
So I think these are the three ways we are looking at the market outside the macro market.
Okay. Is there any quantification possible at all in terms of potential revenue opportunity? Maybe say broad ranges like 10% of current macro opportunity, 20%, 50%. I don't know. I'm just asking if small cells, Lean Towers, IBS put together, can it be material for you, or is it just very small and perhaps only more than even marginal?
Yeah. I think in our business, where revenue is driven by the CapEx that is invested, right, I think these sites cost much lower than a macro tower. So when you start talking about the percentage of revenue, I don't know what the percentage is. We can have a look. But the materiality comes from the fact what role these solutions play in the customer's network.
So I think more than revenue, I think it's important to look how they play the role in the customer's network and we being the solution provider to meet all their customer network demands. So while in revenue, because we are in an infrastructure industry and we get paid on the investment that we make, the materiality may not look that great, but it's a very critical element to provide the holistic solutions to our customers.
Yeah. Just to add, Vivekanand, I think while Prachur explained the rationale, which is basically meeting the network solution requirements of the customer, revenue-wise, it's not material enough to be disclosed, and that is why we don't talk about revenue numbers for each of these segments. Yeah. So it's a small number, not really material to be talked about. Fair enough.
No, I wasn't just referring to the current numbers.
I was thinking more from a three to five-year perspective that can this be 10% or 20% of your business on aggregate? Small cells, Lean Towers, IBS in three to five years.
See, I think, again, it's a good return business. I think we have been participating. I think the leaner sites have a better return. But I think three to five years down the line, as the urban periphery expands and the urban requirements are there, I believe these opportunities will become bigger. Now, how big that will become depends on how the network expands, what are the spectrum, what are the other issues associated with it. But it's an important element from a network point of view.
Vivekanand, just to add to what Prachur is saying, I think this small cell or IBS or micro site solutions is more from a network densification and network capacity need focus kind of solution. As the networks mature, as the data capacity grows or higher technologies come in, there will definitely be a need of such kind of solutions, which will increase. And therefore, probably over time, it could become material. But for today, these numbers look considerably small because the macro sites are able to cater to a large part of the need of the operator. And that's the reason why we are in this space already, so that we are ready once the densification begins to happen.
But I just want to clarify, no matter how small, I think the contribution of this revenue and revenue share from other competitors' point of view, Indus has still a significant share in this market, right? So if you look at IBS market overall, I think we still have a. Yeah, we are the biggest. We are a large player in that space. Anyways, okay.
Yeah, this is very helpful. Thank you for the perspective and all the best.
Thanks very much, Mr. Vivekanand. At this moment, I would like to hand over the call proceedings to Mr. Prachur Sah for the final remarks.
Thank you. In summary, we are pleased to have delivered strong operational performance in Q3, reaffirming our execution capabilities and customer-centric approach. Our constant engagement with the major customer has helped us collect most of the overdues, and we are confident of clearing the balance amount.
We expect the ongoing network expansion by our major customers to provide us with ample opportunities to grow. We are leveraged to guide this growth journey in a sustainable way and create value for all our stakeholders, including shareholders, customers, and partners. Wishing you all a very happy. Have a good day. Thank you.