Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us for the Q3 FY24 Investor Earnings call. It's my privilege to take you through the highlights of this quarter. As you would have noticed from the press release and Investor Deck, we have significant milestones to share in this quarter. So today's discussion will cover four sections. Number one, a deep dive into our financial performance. Number two, the strategic initiatives that would significantly drive growth and market leadership. Number three, how eMACH.ai is accelerating our leadership position in the market. And number four, on market recognition and events. Now, let me begin with our financial performance. Revenue from operations for Q3 stood at INR 607 crores, while the total income is INR 625 crores, registering a growth year-on-year on a like-for-like basis. Our year-to-date revenue from operations for the year has reached INR 1,768 crores, while the total income is INR 1,828 crores.
We continue to maintain double-digit growth in two-year and three-year year-to-year on an LTM basis. Our license-linked revenue, comprising the platform, license, and AMC, stood at INR 292 crores, contributing nearly 48% of the total revenue this quarter. The LTM ARR as of Q3 was INR 700 crore, underscoring the trust and stickiness of our platform-driven solutions. EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR 121 crore with a margin of 20%. Profit before tax came in at INR 93 crore, and profit after tax was INR 70 crore. Despite global challenges, we have sustained financial stability with zero debt and INR 804 crore of cash in hand. The financial resilience positions us to capitalize on future opportunities, ensuring sustainable growth for stakeholders. Now, let me move on to the second section, which is about our strategic initiatives.
Q3 was pivotal for Intellect as we continued to execute bold strategic moves to strengthen our market leadership and drive sustainable growth. A significant milestone this quarter was the signing of an agreement with Central 1 Credit Union, enabling Intellect to assume its digital banking operations. This agreement marks an important step in expanding our presence in North America, a region critical to our growth strategy. To put this agreement in perspective, we had stated in earlier calls that North America is our next focus geography after our success in Europe initially with the transaction banking products and subsequently with consumer banking, wealth, and insurance. We have a significant presence among the P&C insurance leaders with our Purple Fabric platform adopted by 20+ carriers after individual POCs and evaluation. Our liquidity and payment products also enjoy an installation base with the market leaders in the U.S. and Canada.
We recently struck a large engagement with a market leader in Mexico. This arrangement will further strengthen our presence in geography, taking our digital engagement platform to a pole position. We are excited about our association with the credit unions and the possibilities with our eMACH.ai platform in driving their transformation agenda, as well as that of their other financial leaders in the U.S. and Canada. The transaction is expected to close in the next few weeks and will serve a substantial network of Canadian credit unions. Now, the second initiative is on the SME enablement through GlobalLinker. Our strategic investment of INR 20 crore in DigiVation Digital Solutions Private Limited positions Intellect as a leader in corporate and government e-procurement, driving growth in trade and supply chain finance globally. The Asia-Pacific has been identified as a major trade corridor in most global studies.
Similarly, the vibrant SME segment has been identified as a key engine of economic growth in every developing economy as well as advanced markets. GlobalLinker is a startup in the SME ecosystem space that offers shopfront and e-catalog services to SMEs, apart from access to financial services through partnership with banks, and has an enrolled base of over 300,000 SMEs. Intellect's eMACH.ai platform encompasses the iPX, iCPX, and iGPX platforms that power the intelligent procurement process for corporate and governments. Our transaction banking products support global trade and supply chain finance, apart from the regular payments and collections. We see significant synergies and potential in the IP assets coming together to form an interconnected commerce ecosystem with value accretion to all participants like SMEs, banks, buyers, and the platform. Let me go to the section three, which is about eMACH.ai being a catalyst for transformation.
eMACH.ai continues to lead the digital transformation journey for financial institutions worldwide. The zero-waste architecture based on first principles thinking helps financial institutions accelerate the realization of their transformation vision while keeping total cost of ownership across run-the-bank and change-the-bank initiatives the least. In Q3, eMACH.ai achieved significant milestones by being chosen by 11 global customers across key regions, showcasing its capability to address diverse and complex financial requirements. The notable deal wins include one of the largest U.S. banking institutions focused on asset and wealth management adopted CTX, Corporate Treasury Exchange, to enhance liquidity management and automate cash operations, ensuring efficiency and superior client service. A wholesale insurance brokerage firm specializing in risk management across multiple P&C lines has adopted eMACH.ai Magic Submission, Xponent, and Risk Analyst, empowering underwriters with AI-driven tools to streamline workflows and improve decision-making.
A prominent Nordic wholesale bank reinforced its trust in CTX, leveraging the platform to optimize liquidity and provide sustainable treasury solutions. A Spanish banking giant expanded into Asia with eMACH.ai payments, focusing on innovation, operational excellence, and seamless customer payment experiences. A large Turkish bank implemented the DEP to deliver AI-driven, personalized real-time interactions for customers across all touchpoints. Africa's largest financial institution awarded as a multi-country CTX engagement, spanning across 22 countries, replacing legacy systems with scalable future-ready treasury solutions. A major South African banking conglomerate adopted the digital engagement platform, enhancing customer satisfaction with personalized and seamless engagement. A financial services leader in Southern Africa implemented eMACH.ai core banking to provide contextual and personalized banking journeys for its evolving customer base. A prominent corporate bank in the UAE renewed its trust in eMACH.ai trade, delivering a unified omnichannel experience across its transaction banking services.
A top Saudi financial institution adopted eMACH.ai trade, enabling seamless omnichannel solutions tailored to the dynamic needs of trade corporates. Finally, we are thrilled to announce that a greenfield EMI in Malta has revolutionized its services across the European economic area by implementing our eMACH.ai and iTurmeric platforms, significantly enhancing the customer experience and operational efficiency. So we now saw how eMACH.ai was a catalyst for transformation. So eMACH.ai is driving business impact across the globe. Its composable open architecture, coupled with the iTurmeric composability platform, accelerates transformation initiatives with more customers successfully adopting our platforms this quarter. Here are some of the go-live highlights of Q3 that showcase eMACH.ai's global impact.
There were three go-lives in the Americas, Magic Submission powered by Purple Fabric, one go-live in Europe in corporate treasury, five go-lives in India in digital core and treasury solution, cash management, and wealth management, four go-lives in Middle East and Africa in central banking transformation, core banking, cash management, and digital banking innovation, two go-lives in Asia-Pacific in liquidity management and DTB platform, and one go-live in Australia and New Zealand involving core banking transformation. So for the year-to-date, we had 34 wins, and we had gone live on 37 digital transformational projects. Now, let me come to the last section about events and market recognition. Let me talk about the events. Intellect also made its mark in key industry and technology events during the quarter, showcasing the prowess of our eMACH.ai architectural and technical superiority.
Sibos, the annual event for corporate banking, was held in China in October, where we demonstrated our AI-led trade and supply chain platform, apart from other industry-leading platforms of CTX, payments, and digital transaction banking. In the transaction banking business, we also held a launch of wholesale banking in Dubai. At the InsureTech event at Las Vegas, we demonstrated the versatility of our Purple Fabric platform and industry-specific products such as Magic Submission and Risk Analyst. In the consumer banking business, we hosted the Global Finance Awards event in Washington, attended by the global chieftains of the industry. We also hosted the GCB Oxford Central Banking event, attended by several leaders from the central banks world over. Arun delivered the plenary address at the Beyond Banking Summit at London.
Closer home, we held an event for bank treasurers at Mumbai and a two-day event for transformation through eMACH.ai for bankers from the Indian subcontinent. The response and feedback during and post these events enthuses further in our pursuit of global leadership in the financial technology space. Now, on the market recognition, our leadership is consistently acknowledged by top analysts. We are recognized as a strong performer in the Forrester Wave for digital banking platforms. We are named category leader in the Chartis RiskTech Quadrant for regulatory reporting. We are ranked leader in Omdia Universe Payments Hub with best-in-class vendor execution. These accolades validate our position as the preferred partner for financial institutions globally. In conclusion, Q3 has been a quarter of transformation marked by stable financial performance, bold strategic moves, and innovation-driven growth. eMACH.ai platform continues to accelerate our acceptance and adoption by leaders across geographies.
In December, we hosted a session with specific focus on Purple Fabric, our enterprise-connected intelligence platform. The potential of these technologies and platforms is evident in the robust pipeline built and enhanced market activities. With the advent of the new calendar year that marks a new financial year for institutions in the advanced markets, we are hoping for further closures in the ensuing quarters. We are confident in our ability to deliver long-term value for stakeholders through disciplined execution, continuous innovation, and customer centricity. Thank you for your time, and I now welcome your questions. Over to the operator.
Before jumping to the question, I think Central 1 is a very big initiative. Can you hear me?
Yes, Arun.
Yeah. Yeah. So fortunately, we have Rajesh here.
So, Rajesh, investors would love to know what agreement you have signed in Canada with Central 1 and how Central 1 is important from its growth of GCB business to cross INR 1,000 crore for next year.
Yeah.
Thank you, Arun. I think let me just step back and talk a little bit about what we have told investors a couple of quarters back. I think we've talked about a strategy of first going to Europe, following GTB, and building a business, a good retail banking business in Europe. We've had decent success there. And our next bastion was North America, wherein we said we will go into Canada. So Canada is an important market for us. It's what we call as a strategic Central 1 market for us. So from that perspective, from a marketplace perspective, Canada is important.
If you look at our product, and if you've been listening to our investor calls, our platform, our digital experience platform, which is a codeless platform, has been seeing a lot of success in the markets built on the eMACH.ai principles, and it's seeing substantial success in the last couple of quarters. If you look at both the market and the product, we had an opportunity to look at C1. I'll just take two minutes to give a credit union perspective for Canada. In Canada, there are about 390 credit unions. 200+ are in Quebec region, which is a French-speaking region, and 190 are in the other parts of Canada. C1 has been formed for serving these credit unions, and it has three or four businesses. One of the businesses that C1 does is to provide a digital platform for retail customers, SMB customers, and commercial.
Out of these 190 credit unions, C1 has a majority of these customers who run their digital experience platform on C1's platform. They have three platforms. They have MemberDirect, Forge, and a mobile app. All of this is multi-tenant and SaaS-based model. We have signed an agreement with C1 to acquire this digital business and run this business from C1. And with this, and as Vasudha said, the deal will close in a couple of weeks from now, wherein we will be getting a substantial number of employees from C1 to come into our fold. So we will have scale in Intellect Canada with Canadians coming over and working with us. And also, we get a substantial number of customers who will become our clients now from a digital experience platform.
The important thing to note is that this is not only about a digital experience platform, but it's also about opportunities where we can cross-sell core banking. We can sell lending, loan origination, and also commercial banking solutions. Most of these credit unions are also looking at getting into the commercial banking space. So from that fit, we are suddenly seeing a significant scale that we are getting into from a Canadian, from a strategic market in a strategic line of business for us. Arun, back to you.
Yeah. Yeah. So thank you, Rajesh, for concluding this acquisition of the more than 150 clients in that region. So this makes Americas over 200 clients for Intellect. And as we said, there are five markets for the investor. America market was the last when we entered in a strategy. And that was a focus you will keep asking.
ARR is a two-second focus. So this brings INR 200 crore of ARR equivalent. This business will bring INR 200 crore of additional ARR through this business to the revenue pool of Intellect. So this is a substantially valuable entry from a three-dimensional perspective. eMACH.ai expanding the product line into a large number of customers, North America entry, and expanding eMACH.ai footprint from a perspective of multiple products can be sold. So this is one very, very important leveraging we are looking at it. The second part was Manish to highlight around what is a GlobalLinker investments could be, or the whole GTB growth engine is working on. So if we just take to update, because all the three businesses now are accelerated in 2025. Intellect AI we shared on the 18th of December. We shared with you Purple Fabric.
The potential of Purple Fabric could be INR 1,000 crore to INR 5,000 crore. Manish is sharing the growth engine with GTB, which is our frontline business, which is the first business which crossed INR 1,000 crore. Now, Rajesh's business will be crossing INR 1,000 crore. And then the third business, which we are creating, Intellect AI. So that's the kind of a storyboard what we have been telling you from the last five years. I think step by step it's moving in the right direction.
No, thanks, Arun. This is an important asset from my perspective. We've focused from a transaction banking perspective of how to expand the cash management and trade supply chain capabilities for all large corporates and SME mid-market segments. What this offers us as a capability is to be able to offer three things now. Number one, it's a capability equivalent to Alibaba to create a marketplace.
It has capability like Shopify that you can create your e-markets, and you can create your own engines from where you can do payments. And the third capability it brings on board is that I can embed this into my CBX channel now, whereby the banks can get access to a much larger SME customer segment base. So our attempt with this investment will be to scale this up to add to the edge of our platforms, whereby all SMEs can be onboarded through it. And then we can potentially run the entire lifecycle of an SME, where banks will go after them through this route. This will help in the supply chain as well as receivables, which the large corporates really look after them for. This is a good footprint in the market right now.
It's about now taking it across Asia, Middle East, and Europe for its expansion, and in stage two, take it to North America. So we're going to closely work along with the team to scale it up. Our distribution access to the products, sophistication will be the magic which we will create with this. Back to you, Arun.
Thank you. Manish, anyway, we shared last time. So let me hand it over to investor to ask questions of this strategic move, which is what we have at this point of time.
Sarwan, now, in case you want to ask a question, please click on raise your hand. Please click on raise your hand. First, we have Mr. Rahul Jain from Dolat Capital. Mr. Rahul Jain from Dolat Capital, please unmute yourself.
Hi. Hope I'm audible now.
Yeah, yeah, please go on.
Yes, yes. Thanks for that detailed explanation.
But I think I would still need some more help to understand about this Central 1 kind of a transaction. What I've got so far is basically we might be taking over the tech team of C1. And is it also involved migrating from their current Backbase platform to eMACH.ai, or that's not part of the equation at this point? So I'd love to hear more on this.
Rajesh.
So I think, Rahul, thanks for that question. I think what we are taking over, as you rightly said, is a team of people. Predominant team in that is engineering solution architect there. But we are also taking over a team, which is the relationship management team, the sales team, the product team. So it's a combination of members coming from various fields, predominantly being on the engineering and the solution architect side.
To your second question on Backbase, a couple of years back, C1 had decided to go with Backbase. But unfortunately, they were not able to scale up. And that project was discontinued. And so they went with a few credit unions to Backbase. And then they had to discontinue and come back to the original, their homegrown solution. And that's the solution I talked about, which comprises of three products: MemberDirect, Forge, and their mobile app. The possibility for us is that now, over a period of the next couple of years, we would like to migrate many of these customers from this platform to our digital experience platform. So we are going to run this platform and then work with the credit unions to migrate these customers into our platform.
Rajesh, if I got you right, essentially right now, this is just like rebadging of their team, and we will have a fixed billing on this team. And over a period of time, since we will be knowing all this 150 credit unions over a period of time, we might chase some of them into our customer base and migrate it to a much better and modern solution. Is that understanding right? And if yes, then what are the billing and costs that we might see on an annuity basis at this point?
I think, Rahul, you have to understand this like an acquisition of business of INR 200 crore, either revenue line, ARR business, INR 200 crore, running it and upgrading it using our eMACH.ai technology. As simple as that.
So basically, we would be getting INR 200 crore from this 150 credit union, or this would be from C1?
That's right. That's right. From the credit unions.
Okay. And eventually, if we are able to migrate, the potential of this INR 200 crore will keep on increasing over a period.
Keep on increasing. So our target is how do we cross-sell them core banking and lending, and upgrade them on DEP?
Yeah. Just to add, Rahul, just to be precise, it is 160 customers. So that's one. And I think an important point for all of us to note is the opportunity is not only to migrate them to our digital experience platform, but these credit unions also, as I said in my earlier preamble, are looking for core banking, lending, and commercial banking solutions. So there is an opportunity to cross-sell other eMACH.ai assets that we have.
Right.
Just last bit from my side on C1, is there a lock-in for us for the employee base that we are going to take it, or we are open to optimize it whenever we wish to do that? Secondly, on the other transaction that we have done, is this a strategy wherein we would start using our cash flow to add more capability on more product side, or it's like one-off transaction, and we would not like to see this as a trend?
Okay. Just to respond, first question is around. Sorry, Rajesh, you can respond.
I would rather not answer that question, Rahul, because it's a little sensitive about employees. If it's okay with you, we will let the deal close, and then we will talk about that piece.
Sure, please. On the second question, if you could.
The second question is about strategic fit.
We have an iCPX and iGPX announced earlier. That's the two products for government. So we want to get into procurement space. And this is an SME business space. We saw the opportunity, and it fits into DTB. So we have over 50 customers on DTB. So it's a kind of, it's not just cash to be reinvested. It's a part of the strategic fitment which requires this investment to be there.
Can we see it as a module extension to our existing GTB system?
That's right. It's where we are bringing all the iCPX, iGPX, DTB, and GlobalLinker into one common ecosystem. It's an ecosystem design investment.
Good to see all this transaction. It's like we are working beyond the usual path. Thank you. And I'll bring them back to the queue.
Yeah. That's right.
It significantly expands the TAM which we are going after and to be able to bring in things for the full lifecycle of an SME. Next one?
Yeah. Thanks.
So I think Rahul is here through, I think. So thanks, Rahul. Next, we have Mr. Meet Rachchh, Equirus PMS. Meet?
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Am I audible?
Yeah, yeah. Please go on.
Yeah. So first question is on the few of the deals which were won in earlier quarters, but were slipped to the subsequent quarters due to delaying compliance or signing maybe. So just wanted to know, have those deals started to ramp up?
Manish?
Yep. With that sense, some of those deals are what Vasudha read out, which we closed in South Africa, and we closed in the U.S.
Okay. Okay. So all of those deals have been started, right?
Yes.
Okay.
Second question is in terms of FY25 revenue. So earlier, our expectation was to clock a 15% growth in FY25, excluding GeM revenue. But if I look at the nine-month revenue and the QOQ ask rate for Q4, it seems a very bold task. So that guidance is still intact, or are we expecting some lower growth?
Obviously, last time also we mentioned the guidance. We have stopped giving guidance. But I think we are looking for expecting much better next quarter. So that's what we would like to look at it. I mentioned to you INR 700 crore a quarter. I think we'll be closer to that.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Next question is regarding R&D expenses. So Vasudha Ma'am, we capitalize INR 140-INR 150 crores worth of R&D annually. And another INR 200 crore worth of R&D spends get expensed out in P&L.
So I just wanted to know the breakup of that between the maintenance or upgrade of our existing products and the R&D which is spent for new product development.
Anything related to the new product development is what is allowed to be capitalized. So for maintenance or something is anyway being expensed. Whatever you see as part of the CWIP, which is the capitalized work in progress, relates to the new product development.
Okay. Okay. And can we expect the current rate of R&D spends to continue?
Continue. Yes. Yes.
In absolute terms.
Yeah. Yes.
Okay. So as a percentage of revenue, it may decline.
As far as the R&D spends are concerned, we only look at the absolute number. So INR 140 crore is the target that we have. That's the budget that we had put in the beginning of the year. And we'll be meeting that budget. Yeah.
In percentage term, it will decline. That's right.
Yeah.
Understood. Can I squeeze in one more?
Yes. Yes.
Okay. Quickly, please.
Yeah. Yeah. Last is in terms of the contract assets that we report under the other financial assets. So just wanted to understand the nature of this because if I look at our contract assets for the last five years, they've remained between 100-120 days of our revenue. While if I compare that with some of the other product companies as well as service companies, that normally ranges between 30-50 days. So just wanted to understand the accounting treatment and the nature of this.
Generally, in a product company, it'll be quite difficult to have it between 30 days and all. So it'll be quite high because the approval happens as and when we complete the deliverable milestones.
Whereas the invoicing will happen only when we kick in the payment milestone, only when we meet the payment milestone. So the gap will always be there in many product companies. So that's the reason for the 120-day.
Okay. Okay. And related to that, so what is the normal deal cycle once we sign and once we close and the revenue is booked?
The moment, see, all those deal wins that you are seeing this quarter, you have some approval in the books.
Okay.
We report deal wins, whatever deal wins that you see as reported during the quarter, we have accrued against all of them this quarter itself. So between signing and approval, there will not be much of a time.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Thanks, sir. Thanks, sir.
Thank you, Meet. Next, we have Mr. Vivek Kumar for Bestpals. Vivek, quickly ask you a question.
Audible, sir? Hello?
Yes.
Am I audible? Yes. Sir, my question is regarding if you see the last two years, our pipeline is growing at much faster growth rate than our revenue, even if you take away GeM. So someday, and with Trump winning and yields falling and financial institutions, if you see the bank stocks, I understand it's a very superficial comparison, but people are positive about banks investing in tech and all in the U.S. So because are you confident about this pipeline converting? Because even in the last quarter, you mentioned why many deals are getting stuck at a stage where things are taking time to move. So do we because pipeline is growing at a faster rate than our revenue. So that's my question. Maybe if I make, I think I made it clear. So will we see the same growth rate translating into revenues?
Obviously, that's what we are saying. Q4 will be much better. I mentioned in the previous answer.
So we can go back to 15%-20% from next year. We can hope that. I'm not asking for guidance, but because pipeline is doing it.
And we have a good pipeline. And I think deal, first, the pipeline to closure, it's a cycle time of 12 months. So when we went to eMACH.ai marketplace, we are putting to Europe and America. So now, if you look at it, Europe and America's both market, America's will be INR 600 crore market. As of now, Europe will be another INR 600 crore. So we have a potential for these markets to become INR 1,000 crore, INR 1,000 crore market. Both the market could be INR 1,000 crore market in next four years.
And then we have a Middle East market, which could be Middle East and Africa could be INR 800 crore market. APAC and ANZ could be 800 market. India is INR 800 crore market. So this is a kind of a landscape we are planning to expand. And we are quite confident of meeting some of the expectation which you have because there's a delay cycle between when pipeline gets built and there's a six-month delay from the pipeline to the closure.
So GeM, about the receivables, can you throw, have we got from government and any opinion on that? Any comment?
No comment here. Government is government. Idea.
Thank you.
Government is government. So they are delaying the process right now. We have to look at it, what we can do.
Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much.
Yeah.
Thank you, Vivek. Thank you, Vivek. Next. Next, we have Mr.
Manoj Dua from Geometric. Mr. Manoj Dua.
Am I audible, sir?
Yes. Please go on.
Okay. So, sir, last few years, we have seen AI as one of the greatest technological innovation. You were very earlier for that. As an individual, we are now understanding the importance of that and trying to learn. So, I know Intellect is more than a software. We have a relationship. We know the exact detail of banking and insurance and knowledge of the industry. Now, if you see, AI is helping us to create a product more cheaper. And anyone who is a beginner in this industry or a new, is it an advantage for them to build a product more cheaper as we have talked a lot about earlier that we have spent so many hours to build a product?
But at the same time, it could be useful to you to build further new things. Can you throw some light on it just as a school kid to explain to me because we are not a computer person?
So there are two things about the enterprise-grade product in banking for large corporations like HSBC, HDFC Bank. AI can help facilitate reducing some of the drudgery work to build a product. But fundamental product is not just coding. It is about the entire life cycle of saying, "Can I build a car? Can I build a Mercedes car?" Obviously, it requires much more than building a Mercedes, which requires much more than just assembling the car, which could be done differently over here. So I think AI will have a two-facet of it.
How do I use AI to reduce my cost or to reduce the efforts for implementation to become more competitive in the market? That's one facet which we are doing. Manish is leading that initiative of applying AI within Intellect for further extending. From a moat perspective that other people can build the product fast enough, I feel that in enterprise-grade space, it's a long way to go for anybody unless they have a deep domain understanding, substantial domain understanding to make the right product for the customer. Because AI gives you 95% right, 96% right, 92% right. But for enterprise-grade solution, we need 110% right, not 100% right. So that's the difference between the two of them.
Okay. And how now AI is an advantage to you going further?
You answered my first part, how AI is being in terms of reducing cost, whatever you have, or building because you have already a domain knowledge, how fast can you accelerate new products or something like that?
Yeah. So it will definitely decrease the cost. We have targets to reduce the headcount for efficiency of AI efficiency, which is there. That's the one part of it. But the second part is more interesting for the investor is we can build a business. If you can go back to the call of 18 December, which is published on the website, that's where we are putting a complete AI Purple Fabric as a product in the market, which we are first in the market for the AI as a product, which we are selling to many enterprises in the world. So please go through that script.
That will be useful for you to understand.
Thank you. My last question is, as we are increasing time and building products, so I understand a lot of new costs are being incurred. And what operating margin, which a mature product throws, the cash flow throws, we are not able to capture that. As you said, that INR 800 crore will come from this forth, INR 5,000 crore can come in four, five years. How much operating margin we can see from where the expenses which help us to grow a little bit reduced or comes at normal pace? How to look at that part? Now I'm asking for operating margin next year or four, five year period. I don't know whether at that time what we will be doing. Just a color on that to understand how much cash can come at that period.
So Manoj, the mature product gives a margin of 30%+ . So like GTB as a business, if you have a separate business, that will give 30%+ margin. Then GCB will be less margin. Then AI will be less margin. That's how the whole construct is constructed, book is constructed as a portfolio book. So whenever the product gets matured significantly, it can start going up to 40% margin as a product, its product level itself. So that's how the four-year horizon we are looking at it, getting to 30% margin can be expected in four years' time window.
That was helpful. Thank you and best of luck.
Thank you, Mr. Dua. Next, we have Mr. Pankaj Bobade from Affluent Assets. Mr. Pankaj from Affluent Assets.
Thanks. I'm audible, sir?
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, sir, just wanted to understand, we have almost all the products launched and in the market.
So how soon do you expect to reach sales revenue of around $500 million and margins of upwards of 20%?
Four years.
Okay. Sure. And the second thing regarding this C1, is this acquisition accretive or dilutive?
Yeah. Initially, it will be dilutive. Overall, it will be accretive. With the cross-sell opportunities, it will be accretive. Individually, it may be dilutive.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. Next, we have Rucheeta Kadge from IWealth. Rucheeta, please unmute yourself and ask the question. Rucheeta, are you there? Rucheeta Kaadge from IWealth. Please unmute yourself.
Hello. Hello.
Yeah, please go on, Rucheeta.
Hello. Yeah. So good evening, sir. So my question was on the Purple Fabric platform. So just if I have missed it, is a POC done already? Hello.
Yeah. Hello. Yeah. POC is a full product ready. It's been in boot camp.
So we'll forward you the link of this full system. Full investor call is there. Praveen, can you forward him or the full call?
Product is in the product. Yeah, the product is being used by many customers, both in North America and in the U.K. Okay. Okay.
Hello. Sorry, I kind of missed it. I couldn't hear the answer. There was some technical issue. Can you please repeat it? Is the POC done?
So this is a live platform. It is operating. If you go through the December thing, which was attended by almost 100 investors, you can go through the script, and it will tell you that the platform, which has evolved over the years, is fully functional. Many pieces of that are already being used by customers in North America as well as in the U.K. and a few other customers in different geographies.
But it is primarily up and running. So there's no POC. It's not like the platform is not live.
Okay. Okay. Understood. Understood. Thank you.
Thanks, Rucheeta. Next, Mr. [Ram Kavier] looks like he has left. Ram has left. Next, we have Mr. Prolin Nandu from Edelweiss. Prolin?
Hi, Praveenji. I'm audible?
Yeah, yeah, Praveen. Please go on.
Yeah, I have three questions. So Arunji, firstly, on your comment that from Q4 FY25, we should be at an INR 800 crores revenue, right?
No, INR 800 crore revenue. I have not said INR 800 crore revenue.
Sorry, sorry. I'm sorry. My bad. My bad. My bad. Right. So is that the base now going ahead, or would it be from, so I mean, should that be a new normal?
No, no, no. Yeah. We are seeing this for full year.
Some of the deals got postponed in this quarter as well. So this quarter will be definitely Q4 will be a much better quarter. We are not giving guidance to it. But I'm saying we are looking for 20% growth year on year. That trajectory, we want to keep it whether 15%, 16%, 18%. Those are the numbers which we look at as a trajectory.
Understood, Arunji. So my larger question was that one of the reasons why we stopped giving guidance was because of these deal delays, right? And you are also targeting larger deals. So when will you get that confidence back of giving guidance? And this is not from a guidance perspective, but from a clarity on pipeline perspective, I'm asking this question. Is it still a bit of delays which are going on in the system, or now that pipeline is declogged?
How do you see that?
Let me just want to clarify that point to you. The guidance is because these deals are very large values in enterprise space. If deal value is $5 million, it switches the revenue, and they should last 12 months. Numbers are more predictable. So if somebody talked to me next four years, where we will be reaching, we are saying we can be INR 4,000 crore in the next four years. That is very easy for me to answer it. But when you say, "What will be the next 90 day?" I cannot say what the next 90 day is. Next 90 day, we are saying this Q4 is definitely looking close to INR 700 crore. But whether all the quarters will be of that baseline, we love to have it. Let's see how much we can be able to do it.
Sure, Arunji. That's understood.
Second question is on this AI, and you will be using internally also AI to see. And I think in the Purple Fabric call also, you mentioned that probably you won't be adding more employees, right? Maybe, right? So I want to link this comment of yours to the margin guidance, right? Where in some of the past calls, you have guided for this 30% trajectory a lot sooner, right? Maybe next six-to-eight quarters is what you had guided for. And so internal use of AI, can this accelerate the growth of margin towards that 30% aspiration is what I want to understand.
Yeah, definitely. That's a whole objective. Manish, you want to highlight? Manish?
Sorry, sorry. I missed it. Could you please repeat that? Sorry.
How the AI will help you reducing the cost and margin, improving the margin?
Oh, okay. No, good, good.
Now, I think two things. One is we've experienced good success with Purple Fabric by embedding that in as we build out our applications. And those are things which Banesh has been talking about it. I think the inspiration we have taken from that is to internally put that in use to automate how software engineering is done. So let's look at four stages of a software lifecycle and engagement with a customer, the build, the validation, and migration. Step one, we are looking at the entire build cycle. How do we bring in significant productivity? Next will be how do we the validation cycle, how do we bring in significant productivity? The two ends of working with the customer and migrating, those will be in the second phase we will take at.
Over the next two quarters, we focused on the middle two legs of driving engineering using this as well as validation using AI. The margin obviously will go up because if you're not hiring more people, so it's an obvious corollary that if I'm growing revenue by 10%, margin by 10%, margin will grow by 20% here.
Right, right. So then in that sense, maybe that three to four years' timeline of 30%, you would, I mean, want to probably, I mean, is that more like a conservative kind of a number? Because see, Arunji, if you look at the product companies, right, there is an operating lever. Some of your peers also which are in the company are earning far higher margin, right? And we are starting from a lower base, right?
So is that 30% can be achievable slightly sooner than what you have probably called out earlier in this call?
We can earlier, but let's not look at earlier. The point is a product company. A lot of product companies are not crossing INR 1,000 crore numbers. If you look at it, if you have focus on margin, your growth gets stopped. In technology business, your growth is important. So we have a credibility now. We made GTB business INR 1,000 crore. I'm saying we will make GCB business INR 1,000 crore. Then we'll make AI business INR 1,000 crore. How many companies in India have a product business of INR 1,000 crore? Three businesses of INR 1,000 crore nature. And that requires investment. If I publish separate numbers of separate margins, you will see the margin of the GTB business is very high compared to the other businesses.
Sure, Arunji, that's clear.
Last question from my side is that in your slide deck on slide 30, right, where you have probably talked about the funnel, almost INR 10,000 crores of the value of the funnel in Q3 FY25, do you want to call out a number out of this which can be attributable to Purple Fabric?
Not right now. As of now, we are not separating it.
Okay, okay. But any timeline by which we will be able to give this number, will it be a bit a year from now, or do you think more?
We have good traction. We have a lot of boot camps happen. We have around 100 different people in various stages of interest being shown. A lot of service companies are showing interest that they can use. So this is the Purple Fabric platform.
We are saying tier two and some of the tier one SIs and tier two SIs. We are giving to them so that they can solve the customer problem. So it's a platform play which SIs are feeling very, very interested. Service companies are finding that's a good way for them to grow their businesses better.
Sure, sure. Because there also, you are saying that it's not a question of when we reach INR 1,000 crore, it's a question of INR 1,000 crore or INR 5,000 crore, right? Did I get you correctly? Probably the order booking might should be happening in the next one year, right? I mean, to probably achieve that number, right? Am I correct?
No, it's the adoption. Revenue number is not an objective for Purple Fabric. Adoption is how do we get 10,000 people using Purple Fabric will be our first objective.
Sure. That's very clear.
These are platform play, not a revenue play in the beginning.
Okay. That's it from my side. Thank you so much, Arunji, and all the very best.
Yeah. Yeah. I think. Okay. That's fine. We can close the call. Thanks, Prolin. Next, Ram has come back again. Mr. [Ram Kavier] of [QFSPL]. Ram?
Hi, can you hear me?
Yeah, yeah. Please, please go on.
Yeah. Thanks, Praveen. Arunji, the question is addressed to you. Typically, I have been in the IT product space, so the question is coming from a macro point of view. So I would just like your thought process on that. We have seen typically in the IT product space that investment goes in, the products become live, volume builds up, and then at the end of it, the PAT margin or the gross margin goes up substantially.
In Intellect, we have been investing. We have been remaining invested over the last six, seven years. When do you think in the next three, four years, will the tipping point come when PAT will grow up much stronger than what we have seen in the past, especially in the background of $90 million quarter revenue?
Sure. That's what Ramy just talked earlier also when you are not on the call, that the PAT margins will definitely grow. If you look at the cost structure in the last four quarters, it's remained around INR 475 crore-INR 480 crore or INR 485 crore, and the revenue number is only, so if it is a INR 607 crore number, or you take INR 625 crore, that number will be different. As soon as it becomes INR 700 crore, the margin will look very, very different.
So if you just plot yourself the number of the top-line growth, the margins need not be articulated to you. It will automatically improve. So that's what I'm saying: 30% margin can be possible there. It's a question of how much we reinvest back into building it: Business One, Business Two, Business Three. So now Business One has been INR 1,000+ crore business, GTB. Business Two is now GCB business will be INR 1,000 crore next year. Now we are building AI business into this. So that's how the margin is getting redeployed. It's not that current business has a lower margin than the other product companies.
That is obvious because the mix will always change.
Correct. Yeah. So the growth as an investor, both things are important from a growth perspective because a lot of product companies will become very stagnant.
If you see many companies doesn't grow, product company, many companies doesn't grow. They just grow the margin, but not the revenue.
Exactly. So I was looking at the base part of it. So my question focused manner is, in the next four years, will we see a INR 1,000 crore margin? Vertical.
INR 1,000 crore margin will be there after four years, definitely.
If you want to put that in my mouth, we are also looking for INR 1,000 crore margin in four years.
Okay, great. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thanks, Ram.
Indirectly saying it, [Foreign language]
Thank you very much. All the best.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Ram. Next, we have Mr. Chirag Kachhadiya from Ashika Institutional Equities. Chirag, are you there?
Yeah. Hello.
Please go on, Chirag. Yeah.
So, I want to know your thought process on the demand environment and outlook from a three to four years point of view. Yeah.
I have to repeat again. I think Vasudha has told Vikas as a part of the strategy. Would you like to share the market outlook?
Yeah. So, Chirag, a good question, but I guess probably you were not there before. Yes. See, the demand is very much there, which is pretty evident from the pipeline that we have. And the outlook also we talked about in the next three to four years, Arun also talked about it, is to create a billion-dollar thing. And that's where we are heading. And just a few minutes ago, he just talked about the margin piece also. So, I guess you had all the answers. Maybe you just need to just go back and rewind a little bit more. That's it.
Yeah, I'll go in again and see. Yeah. Okay, thanks. Yeah.
Thanks, Chirag. Next, we have Mr. Ryan Floyd from Barca Capital. Ryan? Are you there? Ryan?
I'm here. Can you hear me okay?
Yeah.
Where are the financial statements on your website? Let's just start easy. The financial statements. So you guys are doing an investor presentation for December 2024. Where are those financial statements that all of us can see? It's there. It's not on your website. And this is not the first time that you've done a call where it's very difficult for investors to see the financial statements before the call.
You mean for this quarter?
Yes. For December 2024. It's not on the website. Where is the presentation?
It has been sent to investors.
I think at this point, Praveen Malik, we need to look at it that when we are loading it on the website or not.
It's not on the website.
Okay. So there's a delay in the loading process.
It's very frustrating. I'm sure I'm not the only one that's frustrated by this. We're having a conversation here without knowing what the numbers look like. So let's do our best here. I think that we went through a bunch of deals, which sounds great. Usually, when you sign a deal, you're bringing in revenue. Can you give us some rough sense of the revenue growth by segment, like license, maintenance, SaaS? And if it went down, can you give us a sense of why those segments went down?
Yeah. I think all of that part of the presentation, maybe we'll put you into investor list of communication.
Yeah, that's okay.
But let's talk about it now, please.
Yeah.
Because we haven't talked about those things on the call, and it seems fairly important.
Vasudha, can you just share the revenue numbers again?
Yeah, sure.
So I will switch on if you want to put the presentation.
Okay. So let me voice out now. Yeah. Ryan, let me voice out now. Maybe you can even look at it later after it's been put up on the website. So the breakup of the revenue is like this. For the quarter, I mean, the total revenue, as you would have seen, the revenue from operations is INR 607 crores, while the total revenue, including other income, will be higher. So out of the INR 607 crores, we have about INR 118 crores for license revenue, SaaS revenues about INR 50 crores, AMC is INR 124 crores, and implementation is INR 315 crores. So you can see some growth.
Maybe if at all you want to compare with the previous quarter, there is a growth in the implementation revenue, AMC revenue, and also in the SaaS revenue, as well as in the license revenue. So we have grown over the previous quarter in all these segments.
And that is for the quarter, not nine months. That's for the quarter, year on year. Is that right? What is the free cash flow that we've produced? Because I think the free cash flow declined last quarter. This quarter, is the free cash flow margin on revenues higher?
It is higher. It is higher. When I say free cash flow, it would be as high as close to INR 50 crores.
Okay. What is that as a portion of total revenues?
So this is after intangibles. This is after leases.
Yes. Yes. Yes.
The free cash flow that we can use for things.
Right.
It is after intangibles and after leases. Yes.
What is that as a portion of revenues?
It's closer to 10% of the revenue.
10%. Okay. And if it's 10%, that sounds very healthy. So this deal in Canada, it sounds like you guys are buying their operation, which sounds great that you are looking at M&A. Can you give us some sense of what revenue multiple or approximate revenue multiple you're paying on this?
We are not. You take a very competitive industry right now, Ryan. We are not publicly announcing the price you're paying for this acquisition.
Okay. Is it lower than the one at which you're trading? Could you give us some rough idea?
Yeah. Yeah. It's much lower. Yeah.
Okay. Great. That sounds interesting.
Are there more acquisitions that you could make of modular product companies in financial software?
We want to go slow. Definitely, we'd like to look at it as part of this strategy to enter into each region. If you're on, now America would have a 200, North America would have a 200+ customers . We would like to have a Europe to also have similar kind of a number of the customers. So we'll look at its option, but we'll go step by step. As you have observed our company, we are very, very conservative. First, we build GTB business, then we build GCB business, then we build AI business. We don't go all around the business. Our focus is to go very, very pace growth.
Right.
If you're producing free cash flow to the tune of 10% of revenues, that will leave nice cash that you could potentially make nice acquisitions for. Have you mapped out the—I don't know. Do you have someone, or have you mapped out potential companies that, in theory, you'd like to buy? Have you reached out to a bunch, or are these inbound deals?
As of now, acquisition is not a part of our core strategy. eMACH.ai is keeping us busy. We don't want to get distracted, as a core part of the strategy. It's inbound only right now.
Okay. You mentioned on the call, I think, that this Canada deal would not be accretive before cross-selling. It seems like what should be a good product. When I hear that, I'm thinking you're buying something that's very low margin. Why would that be the case?
The current cost structure of Canada will be higher than the current cost structure of Indian companies. Obviously, it will be; any Western acquisition will be value dilutive in the beginning.
Why is that? I mean, there are certainly Western financial services software companies with more than 10% free cash flow margins.
So different kind of case. This acquisition will have a dilutive margin dilutive on the overall margin dilutive. So obviously, we need to build up the accretion when we sign up a new credit union core banking deals. We want to bring it to the value accretive in the next 18-36 months' period.
Okay. And if this is sensitive, you don't need to answer it. But is this because perhaps the previous owner hadn't taken price increases, that the prices weren't high enough for the investors?
Leave it. Leave it.
Okay. Okay. That's fine. That's fine.
So you have many customers, and some have been customers for a really long time. Sometimes with financial services software companies, the margins can be much higher for a unit of growth than you have. And I'm wondering, out of all of your hundreds or maybe even thousands of customers, do you have some that are not profitable? And if so, why? And is there opportunity for you to make them profitable? This is at the free cash flow level after including working capital changes.
Ryan, just to answer your question, I think I mentioned earlier also the margin question was asked. We have three businesses, and our whole business design from 2016 is based on how do we keep a CAGR growth in double digits. So that's the whole approach. A lot of time for a company gets into the trap of not growing and growing the margin.
We want to grow both of it. So we build up one business and make it a INR 1,000 crore business, then reinvest the money and cash flows from there to build up a second business. Then we make it INR 1,000 crore, and then we reinvest back into third business, which is the AI business. So that's how our journey is progressing. So individually, on a GTB as a business, our margins are as comparable to any other product company, which is long-standing customers.
Right. Right. When I look at other financial services software firms with similar revenues, they have higher margins, though, for the same level of growth.
Sure.
It would just seem that perhaps you have some products that you possibly have,
I cannot value that much here. [crosstalk]
As of now, the margins are very healthy. But is it possible you have some products where your customers just aren't paying you enough?
You need to increase the prices of those products in order to make it worth your development energy and expense?
There's always a case. Some products will be more profitable than others. So we'll look into that. Thank you for your advice. All right.
Well, thanks for doing the call. I would humbly request that before the call, the investor presentation and the financial statements are on your website.
It's now up on the website, Ryan. You can check that out. Sorry for the inconvenience, but it's now up on the website. You can please refer to that. Thank you.
Okay. You got it.
Thank you. Thanks, Ryan. Thanks for attending the call. Then next, we have Mr. Mukul, I think, is left.
Just close the call and see how many are left. Yeah. If something is left, only one question.
Then Mr. Mukul is not there.
Jitinder is not there. So the last one, we can have it on Mr. Rohit Balakrishnan from ithought PMS, if he's there. Rohit, are you there?
Yes, sir. I'm there. Good evening. So most of the questions have been answered, sir. Just two questions. This C1 deal that we have—so sir, I was just checking their balance sheet that is there on their website for last year. So I think this division is loss-making. So I mean, will we also—I mean, whatever you can share, you've already mentioned this margin dilutive, but will there be losses? Because I'm assuming that cross-selling, etc., will take quite a long time. So if you can just share maybe what are your thoughts, maybe for the next couple of years, how do you think—do you think the margins will sort of—I mean, because of the share—
It will not be loss-making.
So we want to just tell you it's not loss-making. We didn't done a deal in a manner that it will not be loss-making for us.
Okay. That's happy to hear, sir. Yeah. And this last question, sir, so you already mentioned that INR 1,000 crore profits. So this is.
Four years, yeah.
I'm not trying to. Sir, I've been invested for the last five years now, and I've been tracking you for a long time. So I understand, sir. So I just wanted to hope, and I mean, I just wanted to reiterate that, sir. I mean, sir, historically, we've grown around 15%, 16%. So with all what you've been doing, I mean, we've been investing ahead of the curve. We've been trying to invest more, and you've been articulating this fact that our idea is to keep growing the top line and keep on increasing our TAM and keep on increasing the runway.
So, is there—and still, so historically, 15% growth has been there when these things were not there, and over the last six, seven years, you've invested a lot. So I know this is maybe a bit—I mean, you've been conservative, but what are the things that you are looking at where things can become faster for you, I mean, from a revenue growth point of view? Because.
Purple Fabric. DEP.
Any core banking, I think you take anything, it can have a major blockbuster. We have to just remain calm so that we can deliver to our customer high satisfaction. This business is an unforgiving business. You can't make a mistake. That's the only thing we want to protect. Otherwise, my GTB business, GCB business, I think the beauty of the business is what we have built in the past is everything is distinctive story.
We have displaced and disrupted the existing competition each time. We disrupted Finastra. We are disrupting Temenos. We are disrupting Palantir. We are a company from India disrupting a global player with such a low investment of, what do you say, INR 140 crore + INR 200 crore, INR 350 crore? What's the investment in terms of global terms? It's less than $40 million. That's the power of our powerhouse of our R&D team and our committed team which we have in Intellect. It's an amazing team.
Sure, sir. So related to that, of course, last, I mean, you've mentioned the growth has been tepid because of certain delays. So hopefully, sir, I mean, next year should be a better year. You already mentioned Q4 should be better.
Yeah. Yeah. Sure.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you, Rohit.
Thank you, Rohit. Now we are closing the call.
Three, four people who have left can write the questions to me so we can answer accordingly. And those also who have once again put their hand, just request them to please write back to us. And thank you for attending the call today. So now we are closing. Thank you, everybody.