Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Jindal Saw Limited Q2 FY23 earnings conference call hosted by PhillipCapital (India) Private Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star and zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vikash Singh from PhillipCapital. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Singh.
Good evening, everyone. I welcome you on behalf of PhillipCapital and Jindal Saw for Jindal Saw's Q2 FY23 conference call. From management side today we have with us Mr. Neeraj Kumar, Group CEO and Whole-Time Director, Mr. Vinay Gupta, President and Head Treasury, and Mr. Narendra Mantri, President, Head Commercial and CFO. Without taking any more time, I would hand over the call to Mr. Neeraj Kumar for opening remarks. Over to you, sir.
Good afternoon, friends. On Friday, we finished our board meeting for the half-yearly results. As all of you would have seen on the numbers, just to reiterate some of the high-level numbers. Top line for the quarter, INR 3,367 crores as compared to INR 3,019 in the Q1 and INR 2,571 in the Q2 last year, which is essentially a 12% growth on trailing and 31% growth on year-to-year. EBITDA INR 301 as opposed to INR 255 for Q1 and INR 318 for Q2 last year. Going down, PBT INR 81 as opposed to INR 37, which was INR 196 Q2 last year. Let me just also give you some highlights of the consolidated numbers.
Q2 consolidated numbers INR 4,067 as compared to INR 3,510 Q1, INR 3,005 last year Q2. EBITDA INR 355 as compared to INR 271, as compared to INR 410 Q2 last year. PBT INR 89 as compared to INR 14 Q1 and INR 179 for Q2. Now, if you look at these numbers, what does this indicate? A, top line has begun to grow, and looks like we are entering a phase of very good business, which gets corroborated by the order book, which is at an all-time high of $1.3 billion. The business is now growing. If you now analyze the way the EBITDA is
My raw material consumption is. Then the high cost inventory that we had on our books has more or less finished. Now we have the benefit of a good business and my inventory would be more moderately priced. Therefore, we are entering a phase where my H2 should be better than H1. Based on the visibility that we have on our order book, the geopolitics, the demand supply, probably the next 12-18 months should be very, very good for us. Looking at one or two other numbers. Finance cost INR 126. As opposed to INR 131 Q1 and INR 89 last year Q2. Out of this INR 126, the contribution of the foreign exchange fluctuation. As you know, of late, the rupee has become very volatile, and at one point of time, it even touched 83 to a dollar. The impact is almost INR 25-26 crores.
Out of this INR 126 is only on account of foreign exchange fluctuation. Part of it is crystallized and part of it, I would say, is more of a mark-to-market. Therefore, as now rupee is recovering, we may have an opportunity to recoup some of these losses that we have presented in this INR 126. The second interesting that I would like you to look at is my consolidated numbers. As we have been saying that the company is very focused, the group is focused on our realignment restructuring plan, where now it is Jindal Saw Limited. At present, we have one subsidiary, JITF, which we want to see how we can take that forward. Then we have the stream of Abu Dhabi plus a stream for US. Those two also have started contributing positively.
Primarily, I would request your attention on the Abu Dhabi facility, which has started contributing to a positive EBITDA. You all know now it is a 100% subsidiary and therefore is fully consolidated and the contribution is good. The outlook is encouraging. This year result, we are hopeful in terms of tonnage would be better than last year. Maybe on the EBITDA, there would be a slight here and there because of the raw material price fluctuation. Otherwise, going forward, we have a very healthy order book, and therefore, the consolidated results as well gives a very good trend and a good trajectory looking forward 18-24 months. Let's now look at the other important factor, which has been a concern for many years, our debt position.
On a turnover, a profit of all that we have indicated, our long-term debt today stands at a little less or around INR 1,200 crores. Working capital, INR 3,000 crores. The total debt on the books of Jindal Saw is INR 4,100 crores. Looking at consolidated debt, it comes to about INR 5,500 crores. Now, if you look at all performance parameters and look at these debt numbers, it would very clearly tell you how well the treasury is managing our debt position. Let me reiterate, working capital or trade finance is very much ingrained in my business cycle, and therefore, sometimes the working capital seems a little high, but it just tracks business. If you will see always my working capital would track the top line. It would also track if there is a fluctuation in the raw material prices.
We would see the working capital as a percentage or as a parameter towards the end of the year should be far superior to what it was at the beginning of the year and what it is indicated even during this result of half year, H1. Because going forward, we expect the raw material prices to be stable, and therefore, the usage of raw material to get my top line should improve. That's about the debt position. An important indication on my order book, $1.3 billion. As we have always been saying, we had deliberately kept it down in a very volatile raw material price market. Now it is almost doubled. Another important aspect, almost 40% of my order book today is exports, which is a good news from an overall demand supply perspective.
In a scenario where rupee is continuously weakening, there is again something that we can expect in terms of getting some more for every dollar that we earn into our top line. The treasury is active, is looking at all of these very carefully, and they are evolving a hedging mechanism so that with the fluctuation in rupee dollar, wherever we can gain something, we will. Let me reiterate, as a policy, we do not take speculative position. Wherever there is an underlying trade, then the treasury does look at foreign exchange, does look at how it's behaving, and then uses simple strategies, simple instruments to try and gain something wherever we can. The numbers are very healthy. The pipeline is very healthy.
The group companies all over the place, if you see, it looks like after a gap of maybe two-2.5 years, where we have managed to keep our head low and survive through without any major disruption, without any major issues. It appears we have a good time ahead in terms of the next 18-24 months. Let me turn my attention on a few other important aspects. Let's look at the outlook. The oil and gas, even though there seems to be some uncertainty on account of the geopolitics, on account of the looming recession, but still, our assessment is that international oil prices would stay at least at a level that it would justify investments in pipelines.
In Europe, even if there is a recession, we believe there is likely to be investment because now Europe is firmly moving in the direction of becoming self-reliant or becoming reliant on sources of energy other than Russian. It is necessary that they would need pipelines because so far they were so heavily reliant on the Russian gas through Russian pipelines, that even for the alternate sources, whether it is for oil or for gas or for LNG terminals, they will have to do some pipeline. We are very bullish that in Europe the investment in pipelines would increase even if there is a recessionary situation, because it appears that Europe would follow the policy of not now coming back on Russia on any gas or any oil, even if things improve.
The other business which is showing a lot of traction is the seamless and stainless business, primarily because both Russia and Ukraine were suppliers to a very large extent on these two pipes and tubes. Now, with the war, the entire Ukraine supply chain has been disrupted, and going forward, the way Russia has isolated itself, even if the war were to end, unlikely that any of those markets would ever go through Russia anytime soon. Therefore, what we have seen in our stainless and seamless business is the demand is becoming very healthy. On the supply side or on the internal side, we have moved now the stainless business into a very stable environment, and we are entering into value-added segments like we are beginning to manufacture now higher grades of stainless steel.
We are beginning to manufacture the instrumentation tubes, which are very high value. Obviously, in terms of tonnage, in terms of volume, they are slow, low, but they would give this business a very strong fillip. The seamless stainless business, because of Russia, Ukraine, overall demand is likely to give a very good fillip. The icing on the cake for this is the JV. We are now coming very close to the soft launch of the Jindal Hunting joint venture, which is likely to happen definitely in the second half. If everything goes well, maybe by December, January, the soft launch would happen. We would be servicing the market with premium brand. As already indicated, we have also been able to rope OFI, another U.S. major, who have agreed to transfer their technologies for connectors.
That again is going to make this joint venture a center of excellence, only of its kind in this part of the world, with a size range starting from two, seven, eight inches, going right up to 36. This would be the only facility of this nature and this kind in this part of the world. By and large, this would give the stainless and seamless business a good outlook in the near term. Jal Jeevan Mission is now in its very mature state. Elections, general elections are around the corner. The next 18, 24 months, we believe would see a lot of emphasis on Jal Jeevan Mission on the water front, and that's good news for DI business. Most of the business segments that we are looking at is showing us a very healthy demand, and we are very ready.
We are absolutely ready to take benefit out of that. On pellet, definitely we are showing as raw material prices stabilize, margins, the upside, everything from last year, the pellet business has moderated a little bit, but that's absolutely fine by us because that has been more than compensated by the improvement in the pipe business, which is a larger pie for us in the whole scenario. Turning our attention, all of you would have seen, it has also been reported in the newspaper, we are the highest bidder for Sathavahana Ispat. We have been talking about this, that we are likely contenders. We are very serious players. We are now awaiting the final nod from NCLT, which we hope is a few weeks away. Then Sathavahana Ispat would become a part of Jindal Saw.
Once that happens, the South India business of DI Marflex Jal Jeevan Mission would give us a very, very strong positioning and a good pricing to add that. We definitely expect that in the second half, before the year-end, there should be a contribution that the Sathavahana business should make to Jindal Saw in the second half. That is what our expectations are. With all of these happening, we expect that the margins that we had pre-COVID and pre this economic turmoil and all of those, I think we should be returning to that by last quarter this year or definitely first quarter next year. The margins should go back to those old days prior to all of these, and maybe even higher because now we would be entering a lot more value-added segments.
If you would have seen our consolidated results, you would have seen an exceptional item of INR 25 crore as an expense. Now, that is the last ship that we had, which was the transloader used for this. We sold that the moment we got an opportunity because now the NTPC contract period is over. Even though we are under litigation, as you all know, in the High Court for the arbitration award, but since the contract period is over, we are under no obligation to maintain those assets. Therefore, we have sold that asset where we had to book a loss of INR 25 crore because that was the difference between the WDV and what we received. It definitely added to the liquidity of the company.
Therefore it was the company thought or we thought it was a sensible thing to do rather than spending money maintaining on it. Again, we are very clear that going forward, this is not what our business model would include. Therefore we have sold it and we have booked the loss. It's a one-time loss, INR 25 crores is showing in that account. So, peers, I have covered all. I must make a mention that in Saudi Arabia we have a very significant win. We have got a water project contract for the new city that the Prince of Saudi Arabia is building. We would be the supplier of the entire water pipeline. It's a very large project, which will be more than $300 million. We would be supplying the pipes over the next 18-24 months.
It's a very short contract. High value contract is going to help our large diameter pipe business in a major way because it would give us a continuous campaign, and we are building a very robust supply chain, raw material purchase. That should be one good news, which is going to stabilize our large diameter market as well. With this, let me stop here and take some questions.
Thank you very much. We'll now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you will press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. The first question is from the line of Pratiksha Daftari from Aequitas Investments . Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. My first question is regarding order book. If you could give us the visibility in terms of execution period for each of the segments?
Okay. $1.3 billion of order book. Large DI, as I told you, is largely because of this Saudi Arabia project. We would execute it over the next 18-24 months. Seamless pipes, typically 12-16 weeks. Ductile iron pipes, typically nine-12 months.
Okay. Sorry.
Pellets is always on cash basis, means hardly 15 days.
Okay. How do we see the profitability going ahead in the DI segment, considering that we have new supply increment in supply coming in both west and east region? How do we expect the margins going ahead and also volume growth?
You have to please ask your question. DI margin should improve because the raw material prices are becoming very stable in terms of coal, in terms of iron ore. The margin should definitely improve. I missed out. You put a caveat in your question about DI. Would you please repeat your question?
No, no, I just wanted to understand that since we have incremental supply in the state, that new capacity has come in, for both west and the eastern region. How would that impact us?
No, the demand completely outweighs the incremental supply, and therefore the prices would remain largely stable. In fact, we expect the prices to in fact go up a little bit.
Okay. How much of our current order book would have price variation clauses?
Most of the orders now coming out of the major states have a price variation clause. Still we have some way to go. Now, as a matter of policy with private sector, all the EPC, we sign contract with PVC, which is the price variation clause. Most of the major states have also accepted now PVC as a norm, because we wanted to make sure that going forward, we don't get into a situation that we were two years back.
Okay. Regarding this, you mentioned something in the press release about import duty in Saudi Arabia from UAE. If you could elaborate on that.
They have come up with, you know, a law, Emirati law. If you do not appoint a certain number of Emiratis, then they levy a tax in Saudi Arabia for one form or the other. That we have taken care of. Now we have created a manpower supply company where most of the manpower would be stationed, and there we would be employing that minimum number of Emirati people of the relevant category so that it become useful to us and we would have that sorted out. That issue which we told you last time about our Abu Dhabi business, that would get sorted out.
On you know demand front in UAE in Abu Dhabi do we expect to come back to the 60,000 tons kind of volumes we were getting beforehand?
What?
The volume.
No. When you say quarterly 60, when you say 60, it's quarterly 60.
Yes. Quarterly. Okay. All right.
[Foreign language] hi. We are adding some new capacity for large pipes are beginning, so we would be in that vicinity only.
Okay, okay. All right. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Press star then one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Saket Kapoor from Kapoor & Company. Please go ahead.
Namaskar, sir, and congratulations on the intake of the orders in the GCC region of $335 million. What is the tonnage corresponding to this order of $335 million?
[Foreign language]
Yeah. The big order which you have got, and this will be shipped entirely from the Saudi Arabian unit only.
Just one second. I'll try and get you the tonnage. What is it Saudi what?
[Foreign language]
[Foreign language]
Okay. Okay.
It is over 200,000 tons.
Over INR 2 lakh. Right. Sir, we have also seen that there is a significant fall in the ocean freight prices. How is that going to impact the rating? Earlier that had a negative impact. The margins will be boosted because of this. How is that going to shape up?
No, the ocean freight has fallen, but again, it is likely to stabilize.
There was some.
[Foreign language] .
[Foreign language]
[Foreign language] Americans are now making a distinction that you can import Russian oil, but don't use Western services. Means don't use Western maritime, don't use Western insurance. [Foreign language] Don't take that benefit as a huge benefit for a company like Jindal Saw. We definitely are in a stable position where whatever our order book is on export front, we would not have a negative impact because of the sea freight. But will it give us a major fillip? Maybe a few basis points or a half percent, not beyond that even at a EBITDA level.
Right. Sir, when you were mentioning that, our H2 would be better than H1, in terms of the PBT numbers and also the EBITDA. Sir, last year, I think to post the second wave impact our H2 EBITDA numbers were in the vicinity of INR 600-700 crore. Taking into account the deliverables which we are planning to ship for H2, what should be the likely trajectory of the EBITDA for H2?
No, I am prevented from giving you a number guideline officially.
Okay. H2 definitely be better and.
[Foreign language] Raw material meri, stabilize ho gayi hai, and I have a very healthy order book. Beyond that, these guys, they say I can't give you any more number guidelines.
Correct, sir. Coming to the consolidation part, sir, when it is truly commendable that earlier, sir, the consolidated revenue used to bleed, and now it has started reporting positively. If you could share the mix of the consolidated revenue, sir, of the INR 727 crore, what is the more mix between USA and the other parts out of the INR 700 crore increasing revenue when we look from standalone to consolidated?
See, major contributor is the Gulf now. All the incremental number on EBITDA is coming from-
Sir, top line [Foreign language] EBITDA [Foreign language] ?
[Foreign language]
[Foreign language]
Uska major component [Foreign language] . More than 50% or 60% comes from Gulf. The balance gets distributed to USA , UP and all that. Major component is Gulf. Even in the EBITDA, more than 50% of the incremental EBITDA comes from Abu Dhabi, and which is likely to stay and which may improve.
Okay.
Because we have taken some additional land also in our Abu Dhabi facility, so there is scope that we may expand. There actually the geopolitical situation is like, Iraq seemed to be stable, now suddenly it appears to be unstable. Otherwise, Iraq, we were eyeing some very good business. Abu Dhabi now with the Emiratisation problem solved looks like a good business. Europe again, we are beginning to see some traction. Still we have taken some additional land, and we are very bullish on our new Abu Dhabi facility.
When we look at the going to the bottom line, the margins are just squeezed. 1% margin is there when we look at 100 days. Why is the cost structure problem that even on posting revenues of INR 700, the bottom line impact at PBT is only to the tune of INR 8-9 crores? What steps are taken to correct this?
Because of the raw material prices and again the foreign exchange fluctuation, interest costs, this, that, whatever, is giving you a very skewed figure. That's why when you reach to the PBT level, it doesn't really give you a very stable picture, or it doesn't give you a very, very representative figure because it is when you are coming out of a valley. Second half results right at the bottom level.
Last two points.
We have received more than INR 25 crore.
INR 25 crore.
Yes.
Lastly, sir, when did we receive this order of $375 million? Was that on the book release date or when have you received it?
No, very recently. Last one week, everything has been finalized. We have received the signed contract in the last one week.
Because normally customary, what we find that, companies receiving, orders, whether it is in the LODR norms or not, I'm not completely, privy to it in the previous year.
Yes, it is not in the norm, and we do not have this policy of selective announcing because some companies, they announce the wins, but they never announce the losses.
Okay.
We don't have this selective reporting, which we believe is in a way doesn't give the holistic picture, and therefore we do it on a quarter to quarter basis, because that's a part of our business here. Getting a big order or losing a big order, both of them are a part of our normal business. We don't do that. Therefore, you would not see such announcements from the Jindal Group in the stock exchange as a general practice. Unless there is a significant or extraordinary information that we must share with our stakeholders, something which is routine, something which is a part of my everyday business, we do not do it as a matter of practice.
Nice. Nice. Thanks, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Participants, press star and one to ask a question. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask a question. Next question is from the line of Anand from PhillipCapital. Please go ahead.
Sir, thank you for taking my question. One question.
Sorry, you're sounding a little distant. May I request you to speak to the handset?
Yeah. Can you hear me now?
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah. In the second half, how much or what is the sense you're getting from the Indian government point of view, given that our product portfolio caters to the pipes which are very much focused towards Jal Jeevan Mission, the project of the government. Any color on that front? What is it? Is there any traction you're seeing?
The Jal Jeevan Mission is now running for this term of the government the last two years. There is a major emphasis. On the demand side, we are very bullish. With hopefully Sathavahana now, they are just one step away coming into our fold. We would enhance our supply side both in terms of capacity, it will significantly go up, and our reach, because now we would have a very strong foothold in South India, where there is very little competition and there is very large demand. DI business, in fact, in the next six-24 months should be a major contributor to us in terms of top-line profitability, everything. DI business is actually a significant business for us now. With now this acquisition coming our way where I just said, we are one step away, NCLT has to give its final nod.
Any timeline that you are expecting in the next coming quarter itself or
I can't second-guess the court process. What we are confident that once it is with us, all preparatory work has been done. We should be in the market. Once we have the NCLT order in our favor, we should be in the market in the next maximum 30-45 days.
Thank you. Thank you. That's all from my side.
Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Neha Jain from Brickworks Ratings. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good evening all. Sir, I would like to know that you said your inventory cost will be coming down. Now, as in, at least September 2022, we still have an inventory holding of INR 3,759 odd crores. How much of this would be maybe raw material cost and other things, if you can give a break-up of that?
I would not have the exact breakup in front of me. Even if the raw materials are there, the high cost raw material which we had purchased during those very volatile coke and iron ore prices, they have mostly been consumed. We would have raw material, but they would be moderately valued and therefore going forward, my EBITDA margin would get restored.
Can you, if you can please, quantify in terms of price movements for coking coal?
I will. See, Rajeev is here.
Okay.
Since I don't have the exact number in front of me, I would not like to second-guess. Rajeev will. He's taking notes. So Neha from Brickwork, right?
Right, sir.
He will get back to you and will give you a complete breakdown of the inventory.
Not an issue, sir. My third question would be with respect to the Sathavahana project . Congratulations for being the highest bidder. So far, as per my knowledge on the public domain, we have bid it for INR 500 crore, right, sir?
Let the entire order come. Again, let's not talk numbers because since it is in NCLT and NCLT has asked a few questions about government dues, this, that, whatever, the final number may change a little bit. Whatever has been reported in The Economic Times is as a ballpark figure. I think you should be taking it for the purpose of investment decision.
Right. What would be the sources of finance? Just then, I mean, I understand there is no complete figure with us as of now.
Sources of finance would be we have enough lines. Today, you see the long-term debt on balance sheet of Jindal Saw is INR 1,200 crores.
Right, sir.
On a net worth of over INR 6,000 crores and on a top line of INR 3,000 crores in one quarter. The borrowing capacity of Jindal Saw balance sheet is huge. The internal accruals is huge. To fund our acquisition like this is not very difficult, just mere on the basis of Jindal Saw balance sheet.
Right. Thank you, sir. That would be all from my end.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Nikhil Chandak from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. You know, my question was actually on debt profile of the company. You know, while you see the long-term debt is, I think the long-term debt is roughly INR 1,600 crore as on September 30. This total consolidated debt related to the scale of the operations, how do you as management intend to bring this down? This number is now close to INR 4,836 crore, four thousand eight thirty-six crores. Is there any reasonable scope to bring the consolidated debt number of the company down? That is the first question. Second is, how much portion of this is foreign currency debt? Because as long as you have foreign currency debt, these quarterly, you know, fluctuations on, gain or loss on foreign currency loan will keep continuing. Some days you may have a loss, some days you may have a gain. That's there.
You know, this is a recurring, you know, trouble point, so to say, for the company, which will keep continuing as long as there is a large amount of foreign currency debt on the books. How do you see these two points playing out on the debt side?
Okay. Let's look at now the total debt that you talked about, INR 1,639 crores. Out of which INR 1,195 crores is the net debt on JSAW balance sheet, which has got zero foreign currency debt. The balance INR 435 crores. Again, if you go to the respective countries and currencies, then all of them are domestic. In terms of if you look at 1,639 and look at how much is Indian rupee denominated and foreign currency denominated, then INR 445 crores would be the foreign currency denominated debt. Please note, in their respective countries like U.S. or UAE, they are all domestic currency debt. In a manner of speaking, practically speaking, there is zero foreign currency debt in 1,639. Now, let's turn our attention to 3,197, which is the working capital debt.
INR 2,911 is the domestic debt. That has a component of packing credit, foreign currency credit, some LC, and some money to finance the foreign currency receivables. The exact break-up, again, it's a dynamic situation. To the extent that you have a domestic versus export business, this would fluctuate. It's a very, very dynamic situation. Now, to answer your overall question that do we have any plans to bring this down? Please appreciate, as I have been reiterating, out of which INR 3,197 is actually working capital debt, which is actually an indicator of my business activity. So if I try to bring down this INR 3,197, it will be contra, or it will be opposite to my trade finance support to my business, and therefore that's unlikely.
1,639, in our opinion, is already a very reasonable level of debt, looking at my other business parameters, but they would get repaid as and when they are due. Because if you recall, there was a lot of effort from the treasury team to correct the maturity profile of my long-term debt to conserve cash, and we continue to follow that policy. We do not want to accelerate these debt payments because we believe conserving cash also is an important aspect of business. Debt profile, do we want to accelerate any repayments? The answer is no. We believe it's well managed, it's reasonable, and it should stay that way. The treasury also works very minutely to manage our working capital cost.
That's why this mix of foreign currency versus domestic, working capital loan, use of LC, et cetera, comes into play because we always like to keep the weighted average cost of capital as low as possible, so that even on this kind of high utilization, you can see if you remove the foreign currency fluctuation of INR 26 crore, the financial expenses for the company would be in the vicinity of INR 100 crore on a standalone basis.
Understood. There won't be any scope even on the working capital debt to reduce this number, broadly INR 3,200 crores, on a consolidated level. In fact, as the scale of operations of the company go up, as we're seeing in the next whatever couple of years, this number should only increase, then the working capital debt. Is that right?
No. Are you talking about the aggregate or are you talking about the percentage?
No, as an aggregate. As an aggregate of the INR 3,200 crore.
I don't understand. As an aggregate, if I am telling you that my business is going to grow, then as an aggregate, there could be minor correction because now I would be paying a little less for every ton of raw material. That's a percentage improvement.
Right.
If you are looking at is my raw material consumption going to go up? The answer is yes.
Yes. Okay.
It's completely linked. Therefore, as a percentage to my top line, as a percentage to weightage, there would definitely be improvement as there is an improvement in the raw material prices. If you are asking me that my turnover will touch INR 15,000 crores, would my aggregate debt come below INR 4,100 or INR 4,400 or whatever that it is? The answer is unlikely because then it becomes counterproductive to use a trade finance to support my business.
Sure. Maybe I need to compare this number with your peers, you know, how efficient or inefficient is this number. Maybe I need to do that actually, to compare it with the peers on their scale of operations, how much of that is getting funded through, you know.
Do so, and I would encourage you share the numbers because if it is any learning for us, we would definitely take it.
Okay.
Rajeev Goyal would be very happy to engage with you on this.
Okay, great. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraint, we will take the last question from the line of [Inaudible] . Please go ahead.
Hello, good morning.
Yeah, yeah, please go ahead.
Sir, since we are a pipe maker and the whole world is going towards green energy, especially the hydrogen energy, is there any scope for us to come up with some value-added products which would both benefit us, as a product maker and also would be, where we will be participating in energy revolution?
Okay. Two things. Value-added products, as I told you, that is our constant endeavor. In every business segment, we want to. To answer your specific question, hydrogen, we are working on making sure that our seamless pipes or stainless pipes are capable of transporting hydrogen, so that in the short term it can be used on those hydrogen containers for the ships, and long term it can actually be used for transportation of hydrogen. So hydrogen is one. Transportation is one thing that is very much on our radar, and we are working to, you know, develop that product in our portfolio ASAP.
Given that there are a lot many players in this sunrise industry, by when can we see any such products launched from our side?
Very hard to put a number because we yet do not have even a good handle on when actually the hydrogen transportation would become a need on a commercial basis. Because at this point of time, hydrogen being used only in cars, et cetera, are more like an experimental and yet. Hydrogen and especially green and gray hydrogen to become absolutely commercial commodity, we still are a little further away. We are developing those products. Very difficult to give you a precise, you know, quarter or a month on it, but it should happen soon.
Sure, sir. Thank you. Thanks a lot.
Thank you.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vikash Singh for closing comments.
Everyone, on behalf of Emkay Capital, I would like to thank Jindal Saw management for giving us the opportunity to host them on the con call. Over to you, sir, for any closing comments.
I need to thank everybody, thank my investors. As we have been saying, on the last few quarterly calls, please be patient. Our time is likely to come. It looks like now we are on the cusp. From here on, we have a visibility where the next 18-24 months for us should be good, and it should put us into a different pedestal because again, there are other activities which are taking place in terms of corporate reorganization, M&A activity, capacity expansion, product development, value addition.
Now for the next 18 months to 24 months, we will get the traction of a good market, and we believe that we would transition into a different era for Jindal Saw in terms of all of those or a combined and positive impact of all the, other activities that we have just listed. I need to thank my investors. I really appreciate they have been patient. The market cap is not reflecting our fundamentals, but we also have a firm belief that it may take some time, but now market should start looking at us in a different manner. Hopefully, we should get this NTPC out of our way soon, because we also understand that that is putting a lot of weight on our market cap, and hopefully we should get that soon, get out of our way soon.
I'm sure there would be a lot to cheer about, we as a company, investors and all stakeholders around. With that hope. Thank you very much and see you next quarter. Bye.
Thank you very much. On behalf of PhillipCapital (India) Private Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.