Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Jupiter Life Line Hospitals Q1 FY 2025 earnings conference call, hosted by Anand Rathi Share and Stock Brokers. As a reminder, our participant line will be in listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Himanshu Binani from Anand Rathi Share and Stock Brokers. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Thank you, Sejal. Good day, everyone, and on behalf of Anand Rathi Institutional Equity, I welcome all the participants on the call today. We have with us the management from Jupiter Life Line Hospitals, who will be represented by Dr. Ankit Thakker, MD & CEO of the company, along with the senior management team. So without any further ado, I would like to hand over the call to the management for their opening remarks, after which we will open the floor for Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thanks, Himanshu. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us on our earnings call to discuss the business and financial performance of Q1 FY 2025. I hope everyone had a chance to view our financial results and the presentation, which we uploaded on our website and the stock exchanges. I'm accompanied by our Chief of Business and Strategy, Mr. Anand Apte, our Head of Finance, Mr. Nitesh Patwardhan, our Company Secretary and Compliance Officer, Ms. Suma Upadhyay, and Falguni Shah, our Business Controller, along with SGA, our investor relations advisors on this call. We've had a good beginning to FY 2025. All three of our hospitals have been awarded the Gold Tier for the NABH digital accreditation. All three of our hospitals are now also offering da Vinci robotic surgeries in addition to the robotic orthopedic surgeries that they were offering earlier.
The CapEx for expansion is going as per plan. We have commissioned additional 22 beds in Pune on first July 2024. The construction activity for our expansion in Indore has also commenced. We will be adding about 75 beds there. They are expected to be ready by the end of this financial year and commence operations in early Q1 FY 2025. The construction in Dombivli is also progressing as per plan. Our second hospital in Pune has now begun application for regulatory permissions. We hope to secure all the necessary clearances in the next one or two quarters, and then begin with the construction there as well. We shall keep you appraised of the progress on that front in our future calls. Coming to this quarterly financial performance, the total income for Q1 2025 stood at INR 288.6 crores, an increase of 18.2% year-on-year.
EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR 65.3 crores, an increase of 20.9% year-on-year. The margin was 52.6%. PAT for the quarter, 44.6%, representing a margin of 15.5%. The average occupancy was 63.9% in Q1 FY 2025, compared to 57.2% Q1 FY 2024. The ARPOB for this quarter was INR 59,700, and the ALOS was 3.76 days. So with this, I open the floor for question and answers, and I'm happy to discuss further with you. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question needs to press star one on your touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue prepares. The first question is from the line of Aman Vishwakarma from PhillipCapital. Please go ahead.
Thank you for taking my question. I just had a question on your robotic surgeries. So are you seeing any sort of traction there? Because I don't believe a lot of insurance companies also cover this. So if you could give us some insight on that. Thank you.
Hi, Aman. So, robotic surgeries, as I said, the orthopedic robotic surgeries we have had for a couple of years, and they have been doing well. They are covered by quite a few of the insurance companies. The da Vinci robotic has just been installed around a month back, so it's too early to talk about traction. But we are in dialogues with insurance companies, and quite a few of them have come on board to that as well. So as we have, you know, used it for more time, I'll be happy to update you on that. Thank you.
Okay, and just quickly on the ARPOB, so how are our ARPOBs in the robotic surgeries or the da Vinci robotic surgeries different from the standard ARPOBs, because this is important to know?
So we don't really track, surgery or procedure-wise, ARPOB department-wise, ARPOBs very closely. But, broadly speaking, the consumables and, what do you say? The cost of using the robo, would probably push up the cost of surgery between INR 1 lakh.... Okay, got it. That's, that's all for me. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Karan Mehra from Veda Investment . Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Couple of questions. So on a quarter-on-quarter basis, our revenue has been muted. So if you can please highlight the reasons for the same.
Hi, guys. So, over the last calls and whenever we have spoken, we have been discussed that, the seasonality as far as our business goes is to the tune of, let's see, around 10% or so, with Q1 and Q3 being relatively slower quarters. Q1 has traditionally been a weak quarter because a lot of elective work gets, you know, pushed out of the quarter because of vacations and things like that. It is part of the world, so doctors want to travel, patients want to avoid what they can. And similarly, Q3, with weddings and festivals and things like that, the lifestyle related procedures tend to get avoided in Q1 and Q3. So for those reasons, these two are traditionally weaker quarters. So this is as per expectation.
Okay, sir.
Okay, and sir, I read so the occupancy at Indore Hospital was at around 59% in Q1, so this was on the lower side compared to previous quarters. I believe there's a seasonality which you spoke, this is related to the change.
Okay. Okay, that answers my question.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Nishi Shah from Arete Investments. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. I have couple of questions. So, are we planning any price hike in self-payer in any of the hospitals in FY 2025? And if so, when are we planning to hike and in which hospital?
Hi, Nishi. So, I don't think there is a plan of self-payer price hike currently, which is here. We may do it at the end of the year or beginning of next year, as far as the self-payer is concerned.
Okay. Okay, sir. And you added 22 beds in Pune Hospital. How much capacity do...? And further, is there any scope of adding few more beds in Pune Hospital or have we reached the maximum capacity?
We just have a semi-finished ICU for 12 beds, which has to be commissioned in Pune. Apart from that, there's nothing more which we can do in Pune. So some of the CapEx for these beds was already incurred in the previous period, where we had, you know, then finished the washroom and pantry area, et cetera. In the current quarter or two, we have probably spent about INR 10-15 lakhs per bed for the finishing of these beds.
Okay. Okay, sir, that answers my question. Thank you, sir, and all the very best.
Thank you, Nishi.
Next question is from the line of Ameya from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for taking, thank you for taking my question. Congrats on success as well. Okay, the first question I have is on the expansion side. Last quarter, if I remember correctly, we had, yeah, even an indication of adding one more hospital, maybe second half of this year. So how things are panning out on that front?
Hi, Ameya. So yes, you are right. We have a desire to add one more hospital, in this financial year. We have a couple of negotiations underway, but, Greenfield projects mean that you have to first buy land. In India, that comes with its own set of, you know, timelines. So today, I can't really, give you a definitive answer about where it is and, when it will come up, but we are, quite optimistic that this year we should be able to do one more.
Sure. And so far we have Dombivli, which is coming in in FY 2027, or maybe at the end of FY 2026, then there will be another of Pune Hospital which is coming up. But for next one and a half year, how the growth would pan out and from where it will come from?
Yeah. So, Dombivli will come, then Pune will come, and then the year after that, we hope the third one will, we should be able to launch. So that is a longer term growth pipeline. The shorter term growth pipeline will predominantly be from Pune and Indore, with Pune still being at 53% of occupancy last year in Q1 has grown to 62% in this quarter. So it still has about a 10% headroom for growth in terms of occupancy. So Pune should contribute to growth for-...and a half. Indore, similarly, from last year, around 36%-37% has grown to 67% in this quarter in terms of occupancy. So Indore has a headroom for growth, plus, in the next year, as I said, we'll also add 75 more beds.
So on an expanded base, we will have a significant headroom for growth in Indore. So these are the two principal areas of growth. Thane, of course, is around 70-odd% occupancy. So its job is mainly to, you know, continue doing the performance that it is and continue generating the cash that it is in order to fund our future growth.
Sure. So, assuming all these three hospitals mature growth, let's say next three years, potentially, is it fair to say that we could reach 25%+ margin?
Yeah. So around 25%, give or take something, is a respectable margin, according to us, and that can be expected.
Sure. Thank you so much. I will thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Raj Mehta from Vision Advisors. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hello. Good morning, sir, and sorry for joining late. I have a question on the robotic surgery. So we have started robotic surgery across our hospitals, so can you please highlight which of the major divisions will get a benefit, and also how will it improve our overall revenue?
Yeah, so we did talk a little about this, but, robotic surgeries, will predominantly be for, abdominal surgeries, for urology, for gynecology, for general surgeries, for, cancer, transplants. Predominant indications are these for the, robotic surgery, and, there are certain physical advantages, associated with it. So, those will pass on patient. In terms of, revenue increase, I don't really think we, you know, at a blended consolidation level, adding one or two, these kind of services or services will have a huge or a meaningful impact for you to notice from the outside. So, it is more of keeping in line with, certain advancements and offering patients the best choices, to treat their treatment.
Got it, sir. On the location front, so apart from New Pune, which other locations are we looking for? So is there anything in the final negotiations?
Yeah. So, again, as I said, we prefer to remain restricted to Western India for this phase of growth. And, we are looking at certain locations across Maharashtra and Gujarat. So, yeah, I really can't get into too much detail about the location of land because I don't want to engage in speculation. But as soon as we have something concrete to announce, I will definitely do this. We are optimistic to close something this year.
Got it, sir. That's it from my side, and thank you and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Harshal Patel from Mirae Asset Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir, and thanks for the opportunity. So I just have two questions to ask. One is, for the Indore addition of 75 beds, typically, what would be the CapEx per bed that we plan, considering that there is some bit of construction already being done?
Hi, Harshal. So, for Indore, we'll probably incur INR 20-25 lakhs sort of CapEx for setting up beds in this perspective.
Okay, sir. That's it. And just one point to understand on the NABH accreditations boost that we've got for all the three hospitals from an understanding perspective, sir, does this by any way help us in pricing renegotiations with the insurance companies? Or, you know, what can be a benefit that we could see out of?
No, so this is not done with a pricing angle in mind. It is more of, you know, continual quality improvement. We have always been NABH accredited for the registered services. Recently, there is also an initiative to improve the digital spine of the hospital, and this is a new kind of accreditation initiative for, you know, digital framework in the hospital. So we volunteered and got ourselves accredited on that front as well. This is just a commitment to quality and not really done with the pricing anywhere.
Okay. Okay. That's it, sir. Thank you. Thank you.
All right. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Aman Vishwakarma from PhillipCapital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you for taking my question. So I had a question on the Q1. So I don't think you really gave out the data, so if you could give me a broad number of... My question is on the case mix per operating, so I don't think you give out that data. So if you could give us a broad number as to what cases predominantly are, are something that is related to.
Yeah. So, we are truly a, you know, full service community hospital. So we do everything from childbirth going up to, you know, transplant and oncology, everything. We don't really have a specific focal area in any of our hospitals. There is not a single branch which probably would go significantly above 15%, maybe not even 15. So it is very diversified, and it, it is spread out quite evenly.
Thank you. And just putting, this is, excuse my ignorance, this has been previously. I mean, so how are we seeing ARPOB passing through, going forward? I mean, it's not the case, like, do we expect any other driver to try to beat the ARPOB?
Yeah, so Thane and Pune ARPOB will predominantly be driven only by inflation now. In those, case mix will have some role to play. So when I say case mix, it is, you know, complexity and the frequency of complex procedures. So in, let's say when you start a new hospital on day one, you may not be doing everything, right? On day one of starting a new hospital, for example, you may not have a liver transplant team. But over the years, once your gastroenterology, pathology get established, then you start doing transplant. But the day you-- So that is an introduction of a new complexity in case mix, which is at the higher end of the spectrum and which can improve your ARPOB.
The second driver now, which is happening in Indore for case mix, is that you have a transplant team, but the day you have a team, they don't start becoming fully busy or occupied, right? It take a couple of months or years to fully settle down and get, you know, fully utilized. So that is the second driver of case mix. That is the frequency of use. So currently, Indore is in that second phase. The first phase of introduction of new specialties is pretty much over. The second phase of, you know, getting matured into doing more tertiary and quaternary work is underway. So maybe for another year or two, Indore will see this, case mix driver. After that, Indore should also, slide into this inflation linked growth model.
Okay. And just lastly on our doctors, so I mean, are we doing anything to attract more talent to the sector? I mean, giving out... I mean, so what is the structure like to hiring and, you know, retaining them broadly?
Yeah, I don't know if I can give you anything concrete on that front. It is, there are a lot of things which are structural in nature in terms of manpower engagement of all kinds, doctor included. So yeah, I really don't have a short answer to this question, but we do have a strong team of doctors in all our clinics, and we have a very, very low attrition rate in doctors, very, very low single digits. So, I don't know if that helps you.
Okay, got it. Okay, fair. That's also my answer. Thank you.
Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to all the participants that you may press star then one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Udip Sawan from ABM Advisors. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I have two questions on the Indore hospital. I just wanted to understand that, you know, as of Q1 at 25, how much CapEx we have incurred for that hospital including land?
We have incurred about INR 95 crore on Indore only so far.
Okay. And, have you started signing up with doctors, for the new hospital? Like, when that process usually starts, just wanted to, you know, get a sense of that. And what steps will you need to take to attract people, initially?
So no, we haven't started engaging with doctors yet. It is too early for that. We'll probably start, you know, one quarter before we are ready to operationalize the center. So it's not proper time to start team building. As far as attracting doctors also, I don't know if you're aware of the geography of this region, but Indore is kind of an extended training area or north of training. So both in terms of doctors and the residential community, the hospital is quite well known and respected as a, you know, high-quality provider. So we will definitely enjoy that brand recognition once we start there.
Okay. Okay. Thanks. Thanks, sir. That was helpful. All the best for the future.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ruchi Gupta from Value Capital. Please go ahead.
Good morning. Am I audible?
Ma'am, may I request you to please use your handset?
Hi, am I audible now?
Yes.
Yeah. Yeah. Good morning, sir. I just, I have two questions basically. I want to ask you the experience behind Indore Hospital. Do you think that we will be able to add one more in that location?
So Ruchi, currently there's no plan to add one more in Indore, but the experience is very encouraging and we are getting extremely strong feedback and response from the local community and the doctors both. But, currently, there is no plan to add one more in Indore.
Okay. All right. One more question, question. Can you please share demographics of both the locations, which are there at Pune?
So you mean geographical, different distance between them? What do you mean?
A demographic of both the location.
Demography. So the first one that we are operating now is in Pune, which is west of Pune. That area is a relatively newer developed area of Pune, which is predominantly driven by the IT growth, which happened. So with Hinjawadi on the far west, and then Wakad, Sus, Pashan, Bhosari, these parts then subsequently have developed very, very strongly. So this is a relatively younger and the newer part of Pune, with a significantly dense new population. At the new location, which we are doing is in south of Pune, which is a very, very dense residential population. Not much commercial activity happening there, but very dense residential population, which is not very new, but the traditional part of Pune.
Both the locations are probably maybe around an hour away, as a driving distance goes.
Okay. Okay, that's very helpful. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rohan from Anand Rathi. Please go ahead.
Hello. Can you hear me?
Yes, sir.
Thank you for the opportunity, and congratulations on a good set of numbers. So I just have one question. First, Q: What is the net cash available with the company? Thanks.
Net cash at the end of this quarter should be something between INR 250 crore-INR 300 crore. Mr. Rohan, does that answer your question?
Yes. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thanks.
Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask a question. As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you very much for joining us on this call. I hope that we have been able to answer all the questions satisfactorily. If you need any more questions or clarifications, please don't hesitate to contact our IR team. They should be able to connect you and answer your questions. Thank you so much. Good day.
On behalf of Anand Rathi Share and Stock Brokers, we conclude this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.