Good day and welcome to the Jupiter Life Line Hospitals Limited Q1 FY 2027 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need any assistance during this conference, please signal for an operator by pressing star and then zero on your touch-tone telephones. I now hand the conference over to Dr. Ankit Thakker, Managing Director and CEO. Thank you. Over to you, sir.
Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us this Monday morning for our earnings call for Q1 FY 2027. I hope you all had a chance to view our financial results and investor presentation, which were posted on the company's website and the stock exchanges. I am joined today by Mr. Anand Apte, our Chief of Business and Strategy, Mr. Aditya Gupta, our Senior VP of Corporate Affairs, Mr. Nitin Patodi, our Head of Finance, and our investor relations advisors. The key update from this quarter is that Dombivli Hospital has completed its first full quarter of operations. The reception from both the patient and the medical community has been warm and encouraging. This quarter has contributed to an INR 9.5 crore drag on the EBITDA, pretty much in line with anticipation.
The other three operating hospitals and the three upcoming projects are all on track and progressing on similar lines as discussed earlier. Let me directly give you the financial update and then open up the floor for questions. Total income for the quarter stood at INR 411 crore in Q1 of FY 2027. The EBITDA stood at INR 79.3 crore with a margin of 19.3%. The PAT was INR 37.5 crore. The ARPOB for the quarter is INR 73,500, and the ALOS is 3.76 days. The average occupancy rate stood at 59.6% this quarter, considering the dilution on account of the expanded base of Dombivli beds. With this, I open the floor for questions. Thank you.
Thank you very much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin with the question- and- answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may enter star followed by one on the touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may enter star followed by two. Participants are requested to please use only handsets while asking a question. We will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Dhvani Shah from DSP. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you for this opportunity. I had a couple of questions. Firstly, on the Indore unit, how I am looking at it is the standalone numbers and the consol numbers, the differential. Just wanted to understand why the revenue growth is 10%. We understand on a higher base last year. The EBITDA margins have come in at a lower 12%. How are we thinking about this, and is there anything specific you want to call out for this quarter?
Hi, Dhvani. Indore as I said, we are getting ready for the next phase of expansion. We have had some new team build up, new doctor hires, et cetera. The higher cost this quarter is on account of anticipated growth in the rest of the year and higher HR- related costs.
Would you be able to quantify this number?
I don't have the exact quantified number, but a couple of crores of new hires from Indore.
Okay. Just on a like-for-like basis, excluding the INR 5 crore revenue earned last year in Dombivli and INR 9.5 crore loss that we took on, can we expect a 13%-14% growth in the existing unit EBITDA this year as well?
As I've said earlier, I don't model it on a unit-to-unit basis. But qualitatively I could help you understand the existing units better.
Thane unit is around mid 70% occupancy, 75%- odd , which means that it will only improve in line with inflationary pricing, not leaving too much more growth opportunity besides that. The Pune unit has low 60% or mid- 60% occupancy and therefore, besides the pricing, it will grow a little faster than Thane because of occupancy opportunities. And Indore as I just outlined, we are gearing up to improve our occupancy over the next remaining part of the financial year. That should grow faster than the other two.
Okay. Just one last accounting question. See, last year in the Q2 numbers, we had seen a change in accounting policy, mainly due to the unbilled revenues. How do we think about this affecting the next two, three quarters' growth, or should we not assume anything?
Unbilled revenue honestly is not a huge factor because it was a one-time factor because of change in policy last quarter. But otherwise, like- for- like, it essentially negates each other out because at the beginning of the quarter you lose out on part of the revenue, and in the end of the quarter, you gain a part of the unbilled revenue. For a steady-state operations like a hospital where there isn't too much of day-to-day revenue volatility or occupancy volatility, it should not really matter too much. Except for that one-time change, where you saw a little higher bump in revenue because it was the first time we recognized unbilled. After that, if you see, it will be largely canceling each other out.
Fair. Just one last thing on Dombivli. Just want to understand what kind of fixed costs are we operating on per quarter basis, and are we done with all the doctor hiring in Dombivli?
Doctor hiring is an ongoing process. Yes, we have first round of specialists in pretty much all branches in place. Doctor hiring is likely to continue for a couple of years because as we keep adding subspecialties, adding more doctors in each specialty, et cetera. When you start, you start with a few, and you keep adding for the first couple of years. That is on the doctor hiring question. Fixed cost, I think should be INR 6 crore, INR 7 crore for a month currently.
Understood. Thank you so much for this.
Thank you.
Thank you. Participants with questions, please enter star followed by one on your handset. The next question is from the line of [Palkesh Jain] from Transparent Value. Please go ahead.
[audio distortion]
Mr. Jain?
Hello.
Please ask your question. We are not able to hear you.
Sorry, sorry. Thanks for the opportunity. I just have a couple of questions. Like you previously have guided for the operational EBITDA loss of around [audio distortion] .
Your voice is not clear. It is very muffled. I'm not able to understand what you're saying.
Hello, [inaudible].
Slightly better, not great.
Okay. Sorry. Like you previously guided for operational EBITDA loss of INR 2 crores-INR 3 crores per month.
Yes.
Was the guidance based on currently operational 200 beds, or did it factor the commissioning of 300 beds?
It is based on the currently operating beds.
Okay. One more question. Also, as the new additional beds become operational, should we expect the EBITDA loss to increase temporarily before improving?
I'll just repeat the thought process, which I have outlined in some of the earlier calls, and this holds true for this project and future projects. The way we think about ramp-up is that in phase one, when we start with, let's say, around 200- odd beds, there is an initial EBITDA drag for the first two years. Once we reach operational occupancy of about 60% of the installed beds, we will add CapEx and add capacity set to the tune that the occupancy falls down to, let us say, around 40%. When we do this, there may be a little drop in margins, but it will not result in an EBITDA loss. Once this expanded capacity then starts growing and again reaches the 40%, we'll carry out the next round of CapEx and occupancy expansion.
That again, the occupancy drops to 40%, which may again result in a compression of margin, but it will not result in loss. Operational EBITDA drag or losses are only anticipated in the initial one or two years of operations. After that, you will see fluctuating percentage of occupancy and margin, but you will not see losses in EBITDA. That is the way we plan to ramp up this and the future hospitals.
Understood. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. Participants who wish to ask any questions may enter star followed by one. Our next question is from the line of Sucrit Patil from Eyesight Fintrade . Please go ahead.
Good morning to the team. My first question to Mr. Ankit is, beyond the regular outlook, I just want to understand what are the top two to three execution priorities you're focusing on in the next few quarters. Alongside that, what do you see as the biggest risk in borrower demand shifts, interest rate movements, or competitive pressures? How are you preparing—
Yeah, continue.
The line for the current participant was disconnected. We'll move on to the next question. The next question is from the line of [Dikshant Gupta] from Geojit PMS. Please go ahead.
Hi, good morning, sir. I just wanted to know, like, this quarter we are seeing a 10% ARPOB growth. Can you just explain the reason behind it? Is it because of pricing or is it because of ramp-up?
Two main factors of ARPOB growth are case mix improvement and contract renegotiations with insurance companies or pricing, which happen on an ongoing basis. All ARPOB increases are a combination of these two factors.
Okay. On an ongoing basis, what is the expectation that we can have?
Broadly, inflation-linked growth for the mature units and for the new units, higher than inflation because case mix keeps improving for a few years. You start a hospital with more of secondary kind of work over the quarters or years, you start doing more and more of tertiary and quaternary. First few years, higher than inflationary growth in ARPOB, eventually once it matures, then only inflationary growth in ARPOB.
Okay. Coming to margin profiles for FY 2027, can we expect around 20%, 21% for the full year?
The margin for the last year pretty much accounts for the three mature hospitals. You can factor in out of all the contributory factors that I said, you can project how the other three hospitals will grow. Dombivli, I have given a guidance of INR 2 crore-INR 3 crore of EBITDA loss every month. You'll probably have to model it with those two inputs.
Yeah, understood. Just last one from my side. For Indore, what is the current occupancy?
Around 50%.
50%. Okay. Thank you so much.
Okay.
Thank you. Participants, if you have any questions at this time, please enter star followed by one on your handset. The next question is from the line of [Sakshi Pratap] from Pratap Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, just one question. At the current pace of patient addition, when do we realistically expect the Dombivli Hospital to achieve EBITDA breakeven and your earlier guidance of 1.5 to two years, does that still hold? Are you seeing the possibility of reaching breakeven sooner than that?
No, the guidance still holds.
Understood. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. For questions, please enter star and one. The next question is from the line of Amey Chalke from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Thank you so much for taking my question, and congrats on managing good numbers. I have joined the call late, if I have repeated the question, then please pardon me. Our first question is on Dombivli Hospital. Is it possible to give occupancy level at Dombivli at present, and do you expect any increase in fixed costs in the remaining of the quarters?
Occupancy should be around 25%, 30%, I think. Fixed cost, as I said earlier, in terms of doctor cost, the team buildup is likely to continue for the next couple of years. On that account, the fixed cost can increase a little bit over the next year or two.
Sure. At present, how many doctors would be there in the unit?
On a full-time basis, maybe some 30, 40 doctors on a visiting basis may be possible.
Sure. Maybe it can go up to 70, 80 doctors at the full capacity?
Eventually, it will mimic all others, like what Thane has, Pune has, and maybe more because the scale of the hospital is bigger than these two. At full capacity, of course, much higher than what we have now.
Sure. The second question I have is on, we have recently acquired a company to setting up IV unit. If you can explain the strategic thoughts [inaudible]. We have seen hospitals having diagnostic and pharmacy companies, but we have never seen a hospital company acquiring a manufacturing plant. Your thought process would be helpful to understand what we are thinking here, and also it will help us to get some clarity on the capital allocation as well. Because going ahead, we have so many hospitals lined up. That is also one more question I have, how that will evolve going ahead.
Sure. This is more of a backward integration for our pharmacy unit. With the growing footprint of the hospital, we have a line of sight to around 3,000 beds now. With that, we are exploring this as a little bit of a cost management or margin improvement strategy. On the capital allocations front, as we disclosed, and you might have noticed that one line of IV fluids costs INR 35 crore, INR 40 crore with the infra. Not a very, very significant number considering the CapEx outlay of the hospitals that is already planned. What I want to tell you and everybody else is that this is not our entry into becoming a pharma company. We continue to remain a hospital company. But this is to be seen as a backward integration of our pharmacy subsidiary.
Sure. Last question I have on our base business profitability. It has improved sharply over last two quarters, particularly. 4Q also it was well above 25%, 26%. What are the key drivers here and which hospitals between Thane and Pune are driving this at present?
I think Thane, Pune both have similar operating profiles. In terms of this quarter, we have Q1 generally has been the weaker quarters. Q1 and Q3, as I said earlier, these two quarters are relatively weaker, and Q2 and Q4 are relatively stronger quarters. Besides that, Dombivli continuing to drag in this quarter as well. These are two key reasons of the current quarter performance compared to the previous ones. If we compare and contrast Thane and Pune, you won't really see too much difference to choose from in terms of margin profile.
Sure. Pune has reached the mature profile in terms of margins, you mean to say, where Thane is?
Pretty much.
Sure. Thank you so much. I will join back.
Thank you.
Thank you. Participants with questions may please enter star followed by one on your handset. The next question is from the line of Abdulkader Puranwala from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. If I look at your quarterly growth figures and compare this to FY 2026, we delivered close to a 14% growth from the four hospitals. In this quarter, we are at close to 16.4% with Dombivli kind of ramping up well. Just wanted to understand, while Thane, you mentioned that it will grow in line with the inflationary price hike what you will take. At Pune, are we seeing some kind of a revenue growth slowdown in the quarter?
Pune revenue growth can't be very sharp now because, as I said, you're at the mid-60% occupancy now. It can go to 75%, but in terms of the base, it means the last 50%- odd of growth opportunity. The growth will, not stagnate, but it will plateau from here onwards or slow down from here onwards in terms of percentage unlike in the earlier phases where you see a more sharper growth. I don't know if that answers your question or you had something else in mind.
No, that's pretty well understood. Thank you. Secondly, on Dombivli, in the first quarter itself, when we reached that 25%- 30% kind of an occupancy, and typically I would believe that at 50%- 60% this facility would kind of break even. Any reason why we are still holding on our guidance, especially after such a blockbuster start to that hospital?
Guidance is kind of based on some assumptions of insurances and some past experiences. Currently, I don't think we want to be very, very adventurous and aggressive in guidance. Let us see how the next one or two quarters perform, and then if we think that there is need to revise, I'll be happy to do that. But at just with one quarter behind us, I don't want to give you a very aggressive guidance.
Sure, sir. Last one, if I may. FY 2026, you had a gross debt of, say, almost INR 509 crore. Sir, ahead with the CapEx lined up, how should we look at your debt levels?
The specific CapEx outlay I have included in the presentation and the thought process is that our internal accruals, the cash in hand should pretty much see us through for the next few years, and towards the end of that cycle, we may need some debt to finish the current round of CapEx, and at that time, we'll be happy to explore that debt. Currently, the board-imposed ceiling is debt of 3x of EBITDA, but we think that we should be able to complete the current round well within that range.
That's all, sir. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. To ask questions, please enter star and one. The next question is from the line of Janardan Sharma. Please go ahead.
Hello. Good morning, everyone. Thanks for the opportunity. We have observed that the shares pledged in favor of Catalyst Trusteeship have increased materially over the past few disclosures. Could you help us understand whether this is due to additional debenture issuance, refinancing or existing borrowings or some other reasons? Also, could you quantify the outstanding debt secured by these pledged shares? Let us know whether investors should expect any further increase in pledged shares going forward. One more question. What is the total debt and cash as on books as of today? Thank you.
Thank you. We did get some offline call about this, because of which I am ready to answer your question now. First, the pledge is not a promoter or a promoter group pledge. It is pledged by somebody else. Two, from what I understood, the pledge has remained same. What has changed is the number of shares, which have increased 5x after the split, and someone erroneously reported it as a 5x multiplication of pledge. That, to my understanding, the filing has also been corrected. This is a non-promoter pledge by somebody else, which was erroneously reported as being magnified due to the split, but it is what it was earlier.
And—
Your last question was about debt and cash.
—debt and cash. Okay.
Currently, we are at pretty much zero net debt. I don't have the exact number, but roughly INR 500 crore of debt with INR 500 crore of cash. Broadly, that is the position.
All right. One more question. If we look at Jupiter Life Line Hospitals 50 years, 20 years down the line, where do you expect yourself and what are the challenges that you could see? I'm talking about the long-term trajectory here, about almost 15 years, 20 years. I just want to understand your view and where do you see our company going forward. Thank you.
On a more granular level, currently, I only have a five-year visibility, which is we would like to see that all three projects that we have announced should be delivered in these five years. On an ongoing basis along the way, we continue to see a very, very strong demand-supply gap for organized healthcare in India, specifically in Western India, where we are planning to focus. I think qualitatively what I can say is that we'll continue building more hospitals of the shape and style that you have come to see and expect from Jupiter over the years. The focus area for now remains West India. On a granular and objective level, currently I can just talk about these five years.
Thank you. Thank you so much and really appreciate your time. All the best. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, any questions, please enter star and one. The next question is from the line of [Raj Mehta] from Wisdom Advisors. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Good morning, and thanks for the opportunity. Sir, could you share the current payer mix for the Dombivli Hospital? Additionally, once the insurance empanelment process is completed, what kind of improvement in occupancy do you expect over the next few quarters?
Currently, in the initial phases, it's pretty much all self-paid patients with a little bit of the insurance comes in with two ways, a little bit of reimbursement-based insurance and a little bit of pre-authorized case-to-case based insurance. You never see a large insurance-based payer mix till the formal empanelment processes are over. That is where Dombivli is even now. I can't really visualize the specific occupancy bump after the empanelment, but definitely it reduces a friction. Reimbursement is seen as a cumbersome process for the patients and as soon as the friction point of reimbursement goes away and cashless empanelment comes in, it should definitely result in some kind of occupancy improvement.
Understood, sir. That was helpful. Thank you and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anubhav Sangal from Anand Rathi. Please go ahead.
Thank you for taking my question, sir. My question would be, just wanted a clarification. As you mentioned that there is roughly around INR 500 crore of debt and INR 500 crore of cash. You have mentioned in the PPT that there was a higher finance cost owing to an increase in debt for ongoing CapEx. The INR 500 crore debt includes the increase in debt that you mentioned?
Your voice is a little unclear. What was the last line? The INR 500 crore debt is?
The INR 500 crore debt that you have mentioned, the higher finance cost owing to an increase in debt for ongoing CapEx that you have mentioned in the PPT.
Yeah.
Right. The INR 500 crore debt includes the increase in debt that you have mentioned?
Yes. It is INR 500- odd crore. I don't know the exact number. It will be there in the uploaded financials. Yeah, this includes the final number.
Okay, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. To ask questions, please enter star followed by one. The next question is from the line of Dikshant Gupta from Geojit PMS. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the [audio distortion] confirm like—
Sorry to interrupt, sir. We are not able to hear you very clearly.
Yeah. Hello.
Yes, better. Go ahead.
Yeah. I just wanted to get your view like currently, do we have any plans for getting CGHS for Dombivli? I know you have said that you are not comfortable with [audio distortion] but still an option.
Dikshant, what was that? Do you have plans for what?
CGHS.
No, I'm not able to hear you. I'm sorry.
Hello. For CGHS, I'm asking.
Sorry, sir. We are not able to hear you. Could you return to the question queue?
Hello. Am I heard?
Little bit.
Yeah. Just wanted to get your view like, do you have any plans for CGHS for Dombivli right now?
Not immediately. Though again, as I had said earlier, with the revised prices, we could consider it at some point in time, but not right away.
Okay. Which specialty you are pending in Dombivli right now?
Oncology is yet to be fully launched. The radiation and LINAC, et cetera, should come in by end of the year.
Just the final question from my side. I just wanted to get your view more on the rationale behind choosing BKC as the location. Given that it's a very premium area, and it's not a residential area, why was the hospital chosen in such an expensive location?
Your question has a little bit of answer embedded in it. It is a premium area, and that is why it was chosen. While BKC itself does not have so much of residents, but it is very accessible by a lot of residential locations within Mumbai. Also being 100 m away from the bullet train, the entire drainage of the bullet train. If you draw a 45-minute driving circle from the BKC location, you will be able to fit in more than half of all the residents of Mumbai. Essentially it becomes one of the most accessible locations of Bombay City.
Okay. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of [Amit Ahuja] from Vijay Capitals. Please go ahead.
Hello, am I audible?
Yes.
Yes. Thank you for giving me this opportunity. My question is on the Dombivli Hospital. Could you provide an understanding of the month-on-month trend in patients footfall? Are patients volume ramping up in line with your expectations, and how do you see this trajectory evolving over the coming quarters?
Yeah. There is a gradual increase month-on-month for Dombivli Hospital. It is ramping up pretty well on both interest from doctors and the patients. As I said in couple of different answers earlier, that we believe, A, the second year should be the break-even year, which means that it will have to ramp up from now until then consistently. Second is insurance empanelment being a friction point for the patients. Once that is behind us, that should also result in some improvement in footfalls.
Oh, okay. Thank you for the update.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you everyone. I hope the answers were satisfactorily understood. However, if there is any further clarification needed, or if you have further questions, please feel free to contact the SGA team and they'll be able to put us in touch. Thank you, and have a good day.
Thank you, sir. On behalf of Jupiter Life Line Hospitals Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you