Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Kaynes Technology's Q3 FY 2025 earnings conference call, hosted by DAM Capital Advisors Limited. As a reminder, all participants' lines will be in listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Bhumika Nair from DAM Capital Advisors Limited. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.
Yeah, good morning, everyone, and a warm welcome to the Q3 FY 2025 earnings call of Kaynes Technology. We have the management today being represented by Ms. Savitha Ramesh, Chairperson, Mr. Ramesh Kunhi kannan, Managing Director, Mr. Jairam P. Sampath, Whole Time Director and CFO, and Mr. Rajesh Sharma, Chief Executive Officer. At this point, I'll hand over the floor to Mr. Kunhikannan for his initial remarks, post which we'll open up the floor for Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Good morning, everyone. On behalf of Kaynes Technology team, I would like to welcome everyone to this earnings call for quarter three FY 2025 results. I have, along with me, Ms. Savitha Ramesh, Chairperson of our Board, Mr. Jairam P. Sampath, Whole Time Director and CFO, Mr. Rajesh Sharma, CEO, Mr. Sumit Verma, Investor Relations, and Orient Capital, our investor relations partners. I am pleased to inform you all that we have been able to achieve an operating revenue of INR 17,373 million during the first three quarters of the year FY 2025, which represents a strong growth of 49% year-on-year. The operational EBITDA margin, excluding other income for the first three quarters of the year FY 2025, was at 14.2%, and PAT margin was at 10.1%, which were higher by 50 basis points and 120 basis points, respectively, on year-on-year basis.
Coming to our performance for Quarter-ended Q3 FY 2025, our total revenue was INR 6,612 million, which signifies a growth of 30% on year-on-year basis. Our Q3 FY 2025 operational EBITDA was INR 940 million at 14.2%, signifying an increase in EBITDA of 50 basis points over the corresponding quarter of last year. Similarly, the PAT was INR 665 million at 10.1%, signifying an increase in PAT percentage of 120 basis points over the corresponding quarter of last year. In the coming quarter of this year, we expect to pick up the revenue growth rates such that the annual operating revenue growth would exceed 55% on year-on-year basis and an expansion in terms of profitability for year FY 2025. There is a robust growth in business outflow, with the order book growth in keeping with our expectation.
Our order book surged from INR 54,228 million at the end of Q2 FY 2025 to INR 60,471 million at the end of Q3 FY 2025. Industrial and EV, aerospace, medical, and automotive were the key verticals of growth in the order book, where several large orders were booked. This is in line with our expectation of a robustly growing, profitable, and diversified business portfolio. All new initiatives are on track, and the speed of implementation is gearing up with revenue start target as Q4 FY 2026 for both OSAT and HDI PCB boards.
We have taken possession of land and started construction activities of the OSAT factory at Sanand in Gujarat and of the HDI PCB factory in Oragadam in Tamil Nadu. We have made significant growth and progress in developing and onboarding the team and customers for the OSAT facility. Integration of Iskraemeco India into our fold is underway and prceeding smoothly.
The smart meter factory at Hyderabad is in series production, and we are happy to inform you that several racks of meters have been supplied, and the robust and growing order book makes it mandatory to increase capacities, which we are working on vigorously. We have acquired a majority stake in an AI-based railway network safety solution company called Sensonic, which operates globally. We believe in fostering a diverse and inclusive workplace. We are proud to have a significant number of women on our team, and now we have a couple of our large factories headed by women team members. Our success is a direct result of our team's hard work and our customers' loyalty. The enduring relationships we have built demonstrate our commitment to delivering exceptional value.
As we go forward towards our cherished goal of growing our revenues at a high CAGR, thereby becoming a large, fully integrated ESDM company, we are working on strategies to operationalize additional beachheads in terms of geographical presence, ODM capability, and deepening of our technology footprints. These are critical initiatives that will take us from millions of U.S. dollar revenues to billions of U.S. dollar profitability in the future. With this, I would like to sincerely thank each and every one of our excellent investors for their encouragement so far in our journey and expect continuing support in the future too. Thank you all once again, and we look forward to exciting times ahead. I will now hand over the call to Jairam Sampath to take you through our financial performance. Thank you. Jairam, over to you.
Yeah. Thank you, Sumit Verma, and first of all, thanks to all the participants for joining today's call. As we start a new quarter, I'm happy to share Kaynes Technology's financial results for the period ending Q3 FY 2025 and share with you the highlights of the same. For the first three quarters of FY 2025, we have been able to achieve a revenue of about INR 17,373 million, which represents a strong growth of 49% year-on-year.
The operational EBITDA stood at INR 2,431 million, with a year-on-year growth of 53%. For Q3 FY 2025, consolidated total revenues were INR 6,612 million, representing 30% year-on-year, and consolidated EBITDA for the quarter was INR 940 million, showing a 35% increase in year-on-year. The EBITDA margin for the quarter stood at 14.2%. Our consolidated PAT for the quarter was INR 665 million, up by 47% year-on-year, and PAT margin for the quarter stood at 10.1%.
Consequently, our ROE and ROCE adjusted for unutilized portions of proceeds were 17.3% and 17.7%, respectively, for the first three quarters of FY 2025. Our order book surged from INR 54,228 million at the end of Q2 FY 2025 to INR 60,471 million at the end of Q3 FY 2025. The average monthly order inflow grew from INR 3,188 million in Q2 FY 2025 to INR 4,285 million in Q3 FY 2025. Net working capital days at the end of December quarter was 107 days, which is smaller than the previous year's same quarter figure of 117 days. Our inventory days were 117, as we have made advance purchases, keeping in mind the requirements of the upcoming quarter, as we plan to execute revenues as per the expectations in FY 2025.
With the expected ramp-up of revenues in the coming quarter of FY 2025, we are confident of making good improvements in the average net company working capital days at the end of year FY 2025. Our OSAT project is underway in Sanand, Gujarat, following government approvals for capital subsidies. We have provided regular updates on the construction progress. We provide, having completed the groundbreaking and other developments already. We've also secured government approval for our HDI PCB project in Tamil Nadu, and we'll be sharing updates on that as well. Both projects will start yielding significant revenues from the Q4 of FY 2026 as planned. Before I end the call, I would like to thank DAM Capital for hosting this earnings call, and I would like to thank all the participants for committing their valuable time for attending this call. Now I leave the floor open for questions. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Participants are requested to limit their question to two per participant. If you have a follow-up question, I would request you to rejoin the queue. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Sanitya from Unicorn Assets. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Good morning. Good set of numbers. So the first question would be on the margins, friends. So what makes us confident that going forward we will have a better margin in terms of net margins as well as the operating margins? So if we see that regularly going forward, our expenses would definitely increase based on our new contracts with the clients that we are acquiring, as well as the new talent that we need to acquire for the purpose. And also, our interest costs and other depreciations would also increase. So what makes us confident?
Yeah. So thank you for this question. Essentially, the margins have two drivers. One driver is, of course, the gross margins, which is depending on blend of business. And as Ramesh talked about it during our managing director's initial remarks, the order inflow has been in the areas like industrial, aerospace, IT, medical, etc. So those are high-yielding areas. So that pushes up the gross margins better than what has happened in the past. The other source of margins is also the operating leverage, which has actually deleveraged in the last quarter because we have added newer teams. We have added newer teams into our fold. Mainly, we had an acquisition in the U.S. We had some acquisitions in India and so on and so forth. So these teams' revenues will start ramping up from the fourth quarter onwards. So we'll start seeing some better operating leverage too coming up.
We are confident that our EBITDA margins will definitely be better than what we had just projected. And for the year, we are confident of exceeding 15% EBITDA based on these two trends. As far as the employee cost is concerned, I have already broadly explained to you the construct because we have either onboarded newer businesses, and there the costs have kicked in, but the revenues did too kick in, and that's likely to happen in the fourth quarter. So we are confident that from now on, we'll start seeing some better operating leverage with the revenues going up.
You want to share some highlights on what are the bifurcations in terms of order book, or should we assume that the revenue for nine months?
No, I'm not able to share exact numbers, but our order books have significantly come in the area of aerospace and defense, then smart meters, then automotive, especially sports, and then medical, and then IT. These are large orders. Each order is in excess of INR 300-500 crores execution. Of course, execution spread over a time frame depending on the kind of business that we do with them.
Okay and on broad basis.
To interrupt Mr. Sanithya, I would request you to rejoin the queue for your follow-up question. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ankur from HDFC Life. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Good morning. Thanks for your time as always. Two questions. One was on the rail segment where we see this decline both nine months and also for the quarter. So if you could just help us understand what's the reason behind that. I would assume there's been some delays and offtakes there. So if you could just help us, what's happening on the rail side? And similarly, on the industrial business also, if I understand right, there were some delays on shipments of smart meters. So if you could just help us understand, is that a one-off? What's really happening there, and how are we seeing Q4? Yeah. Thanks.
Yes, JPS. I will take this question. Ramesh here.
Hi, sir.
Yeah. So what is happening is the impact of earlier delays of ordering and then projects went on slow during election time is being seen slowly in the last quarter. And in the coming quarter, I'm sure it will get picked up, but definitely in the next two quarters because order inflow has increased. So that is a pattern of expansions are happening. But earlier, there was a slowdown, but at that time, we had enough projects under approval stage and completion stage so we could ship it out. Today, there is offtake has come down slowly. Then in our meter side also, we are a new company. We have just started manufacturing. So there are some small delays in the factory doing productions and then shipments going out and all. So these are all one-off cases.
It will catch up in the next two quarters, this quarter and the coming quarter.
I understand. Sure. Sure. So I get it. So now that with orders picking up, execution will also start picking up. And okay. I get it.
You see, my order book has really grown up. So this is a one-off case only.
I get it. Okay. Sounds good. Good to hear that. Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dhananjay from ASK Investment Managers. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. So I wanted to understand, apart from automotive and industrial, how are we looking at the other segments scale up in terms of medical, IoT? How are they scaling up? And regarding our capexes for the next few projects, how would the IRRs look on those? Because there would be some mismatch in terms of payment and collection from the government for the same rate.
Yeah. So broadly, you're looking at the order inflow from the non-traditional sectors, that is, things like medical, etc. So I'm happy to tell you that in medical, we have acquired a large client, and we are having some successive RFQs coming in. And so this is a European-based company which has acquired some companies in the U.S. too. And so these are large businesses. We were lacking this large clientele in medical, which has been fulfilled. On the IoT and IT front, the business is coming as we expected. One of the largest government customers is with us, and we are likely to see some good expansion in this business in the coming year too. In terms of, if I understand correctly, you're talking about government support and subsidies, etc. We don't depend too much on production-linked incentives at this point in time.
Of course, we do get some benefits in the IT sector as we are TLA holders there. But our help comes more in the capital subsidy front, and we have seen absolutely no trouble in terms of getting our papers through, etc. And since we got our Silicon Assembly approvals a tad later, that is post-election, so the process got maybe delayed about two or three months, but then that has nothing to do with the government's process. And we find that all the agreements and processes, etc., it's pretty much on time. So we don't expect any major delays in the capital subsidy front as of now.
Sir, but there would be a mismatch. We will have to do the Capex first, and then the capital subsidy would come in later. Is that the correct understanding?
Yeah. So there are two different projects. There is a project in Sanand wherein there is a capital subsidy from the central government. It's about 50%, and it comes in pari passu. That means it comes in advance of investment. As soon as we put in money, government also puts in money. There is a small portion, which is 20-25%, which is state government, which comes post-commencement of operations. So that is somewhat like a reinvestment, but that's also a cash subsidy only. So the delay is only in the first series of implementation of the Capex. And then thereafter, it's a cyclical. So central government subsidy in Sanand comes in advance, and the state government subsidy comes as well post-commencement of operation. As far as the PCB board is concerned, both of them are linked to commencement of operation.
It is like nine months from the start of projects, typically. And so both central government and state government subsidies will come in nine months. So we manage the, let's say, implementation project through our equity and some small amount of debt that we will take, and which will be kind of paid back by these government subsidies that come in post-commencement of operation, which is like a nine-month delay, basically.
Okay. So there'll be a delay. So finally, just how much CapEx are we going to do over the next two years? And could you break it up by segments so we have an idea?
Yeah. So as far as the EMS business is concerned, I think it's kind of self-funded now. And we expect at least CapEx anywhere between the range of INR 200-300 crores per annum coming in because that has to help in terms of doing the additional volumes that we expect in the FY 2026 and 27, etc. As far as the CapEx for the OSAT is concerned, the total CapEx is about INR 3,300 crores, out of which 70%-75% comes from central and state government. Remaining is our equity. And so that's OSAT. And then that will probably get consumed by FY 2028, 29 time frame. And similarly, for HDI PCB, we have a CapEx of about INR 1,400 crores. And this also will consume fully by about FY 2028, 2029.
And here also, close to about 50%-60% is the state and central government's share in terms of CapEx subsidy. The remaining is what we put up. So over the next almost INR 4,800 crore of CapEx is likely to be coming up till about FY 2028, FY 2029, starting from this year in the newer projects, which is the semicon assembly as well as PCB. But the bulk of it is in terms of 60%-75% is about government subsidy. So the cash outflow from the company will be much lower.
Okay. Sure. So congratulations on a good set of numbers.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Siddhartha Bera from Nomura. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, first question is on the smart meters side. We have seen a couple of new states also sort of giving orders, I think Bihar and Rajasthan. So if you can just guide us about the order book in smart meters, how much are we planning to execute over the next one year if we have got anything more? And second is, basically on this guidance cut also for this year, is it more of pushback to next year because you said that you are going to catch up the lost sort of revenues in the current quarter, in the coming quarter? So in some sense, the reason for the cut and how should we think about next year?
Yeah. Thank you, Siddharth. See, fundamentally, let me ask the second question first. So this guidance cut is more like time frame not available. The first two quarters, we probably should have done a little more in a regular year. We should have done more in the railways and all those sectors, which obviously, due to elections, etc., got delayed. And as we now move, we have completed three quarters and pretty much very near the year-end, right? January is almost complete now.
So we find that the physical time availability for the execution of all those orders, it will be putting too much pressure into the system trying to maintain the original number. So the orders will remain on our books. If you see the order increase is there every month, INR 420 crores per month of order inflow compared to INR 360 crores last quarter, which is a significant increase.
So these will get executed. It's a continuum, right? So we continue to execute this quarter, that is last quarter of this year, and next quarter too. The other question that you had on the smart meter, we started getting the, of course, I am not at liberty to tell you exactly where, but earlier, we started with mainly PGCIL-based orders, and now three more states' orders have been added, and also some AMISP's orders also have been added. So these have been, so let's say four new sets of large orders have been added post-acquisition of Iskraemeco. And we can definitely, on a next running 12-month period, do almost INR 1,000 crore kind of number in the smart meters alone. That's a clear possibility. Let's see where we get there.
Understood, sir. And in the other segments, like probably aerospace as well as railways, I think the execution has been a lot slower. So we were expecting some stronger ramp-up in the next year in FY 2026. So some thought process there. Where are we in terms of the execution and seeing the benefits in the order book and revenues?
Yeah. So as far as aerospace is concerned, now we have secured orders, and aerospace, I think, is coming back to its expected number. So we can get to a larger number on an annual basis. Maybe in FY 2026, we can expect some significantly higher numbers than what we have seen in the past. As far as railways concerned, I think we're just starting up this quarter. We have secured some orders, and I'm sure post-budget, which is going to be announced sometime in a short while. So post that, we will get clarity on exactly when the government plans to spend. But it's our expectation that next four years' time frame, I think, with all these election troubles and all the other U.S. troubles also behind us, hopefully, government will get on to its job of infrastructure building. And then railway is a key part.
It's almost got delayed by two years now, and so we expect in FY 2026 also significant resurgence in our railway business too, with also our Kavach program coming in, so this year, we will complete the POC, and next year, we will probably start delivering revenues on Kavach too.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen.
As far as. No, one minute. I also wanted to add on this. As far as aerospace orders are concerned, we are well within what we have projected, and you will see a real good, remarkable execution in the year 2026 onwards.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all the participants, please limit your question to two per participant. If you have a follow-up question, I would request you to rejoin the queue. The next question is from the line of Rahul from Haitong Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Good morning, gentlemen. Thanks for the opportunity. Many of my questions are answered. I just have two small clarifications. One, if you are confident, I mean, in your guidance, you've indicated a 15% margin. This gross margin of 30%, you are confident of that number also, or that will be volatile based on the mix?
Right. Actually, yeah, Rahul, thank you for your question. So like I said, the profitability got determined mainly with gross margin and then operating leverage. So the good news is that this year, we have come back towards the kind of gross margins that we normally deliver in our business. And that is based on the blend of business, which is based on the order book of about INR 6,000 crores. So it won't materially change all of a sudden. It will slowly improve with more and more orders coming in the higher-yielding sectors. There could be medical, there could be aerospace, railways, all of these kinds of industrial, etc., etc. So you can see stability in the margins, but it's not an improvement, gross margin levels.
Yeah. Our team exercises orders only within whatever our range of orders. So our gross margin will be upward north of 30+ .
Okay. Yeah. Thanks. The second question is in your order book, where we've seen a significant jump. Can you tell us how much is exports and, if possible, the U.S. share, if there is anything that you all are doing for the U.S. market?
Okay. These are international exports. Part of it could be U.S. So roughly in an INR 6,000 crore order book, recently, we've got about INR 800 crores worth of exports locked in, which is in addition to whatever earlier 10%-15% used to be exports. So you can see in the order book perspective also, it's increasing. And next year, the fourth quarter, the other two businesses, which are PCB and OSAT, will also start up, which will primarily have exports. So from that perspective, next year for FY 2026, we can expect 20%-25% of business being export.
Okay. Sure. Thank you very much, sir, and all the very best.
Thank you, Rahul.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Renu Pogalia from IIFL Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Good morning, team. Just two short questions. One on the revenue guidance, on the annual guidance, just want to reiterate. You mentioned 15% margins. That's for the quarter or on an annualized basis for the full financial year?
Yeah. So revenue guidance will be somewhere between INR 2,800 crores and INR 2,900 crores. And the margins will be 15%+ for the year.
For the year, and based on your comments on the mix of order book, you think these margin profiles are comfortable and maintainable in the next fiscal year as well going ahead?
Yeah. Yeah. They are eminently feasible based on whatever orders have been set for execution. We also completed one month. So we are quite confident of what we are seeing now.
We have done our sensitivity analysis, and it is very clear that we will have this margin.
Perfect. Secondly would be on the QIP. There are quite a few queries here. Recently, there were some announcements. So can you help us understand what are the kind of funding requirements you have for the business and to what extent these will be met through the external funding that we are planning? Any timeline do we have for these external funding?
Yeah. So Renu, basically, we are right now getting an approval from EGM so that we can execute the QIP in a short, let's say, time frame. The QIP essentially is being done with future in mind and not for the current businesses. Current businesses like ESDM, Silicon Assembly, and PC board assembly, they are now funded enough for next, let's say, up to about FY 2028, FY 2029 time frame. And then thereafter, we will look at—and some of it will start turning in cash, and then they probably will be on their own growth path. So as far as this potential QIP that we talked about is concerned, to help our strategy, there are three prongs of strategy that we have, which is in the aid of preparing for future. So come FY 2028, we have a nice target of about $1 billion, etc.
But beyond that to grow, we needed additional beachhead. So first is the geographical beachhead. That means we want to extend our footprint into bigger geographies like U.S., etc., North America. And that's not possible by organic growth and starting up. So we need to acquire some good companies with reasonable profitability and similar businesses and maybe a good price point. So that is one use for the funds that we are talking about. The other one, of course, we have avoided the entire QIP in a generic form, but inorganic acquisition and those kinds of things are some of the major, let's say, users. The other users could be something like an ODM. We are enthused by investment into companies like Sensonic, etc.
So that opens out a whole new range of solutions for us, wherein design becomes our key focus area, and that helps us to shore up the margins also. So as part of growth, we have geography. As part of margins, we have ODM. And the third one is we also believe that in areas such as, say, silicon and all other areas, we should also have some technology footprint deepening. That means we should be in a position to strengthen our credentials in certain niche areas, which are now we are getting access to. And so you'll be happy to note that in the newer areas like high-density PC board and the silicon assembly, we've been able to, let's say, in advanced talks, get some very good clients. And so it's even better than what we thought earlier.
So in that thing, we need to also extend that, let's say, trend and make some inorganic investments in areas which can strengthen our credentials in those new technology areas. So our QIP, the potential QIP, is going to be used for strategically shoring up, A, geography, additional geographies, which could be North America, Europe, and South Asia. B, it could be ODM. And C, it could be technology footprint deepening.
Got it. Thank you and best wishes, team. Thank you.
Thank you, Renu.
Thank you.
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of CA Garvit Goyal from Nvest Analytics Advisory LLP. Please go ahead.
Hi. Am I audible still?
Yes.
Yes, Sahan.
Good morning. Congrats for a good set of numbers. I have two questions. One is on broad macroeconomic environment. So our company caters to various end industries like auto industrial, aerospace, including railways and semiconductor as well. Can you please honestly guide on based on whatever discussions happening with the respective ministries? We all know that it's an old CapEx story, and we all know our government is expected to play a great role here. So do you see any budget cuts at their end, or are they looking to take a backstep here and mobilizing the funds from growth of the nation to any other area? Or are they looking to do it to control the fiscal deficit? So what's your take on this?
Yeah. So there are two parts to your question, I think. One part is on the commitment of money in terms of subsidies, etc. So those are done and dusted through government orders already. So we don't see any variance in that. As far as government purchases are concerned, I think there have been sectors which have been starved of these purchases while they were very important for the country, like safety of railway network, improvements in the power infrastructure, telecom, and all of that. And so we think that over the next four years' time frame, government will definitely make steps to make these investments come true. And as is the government's policy of Aatmanirbhar Bharat, they are going to give prominence, and they are going to give preference to Indian companies to do both design and manufacturing. So we think that that augurs well for all of us.
So our take is that government will get back into this entire infrastructure push, and especially which requires electronic components like the three areas that I mentioned. And also the other area of which our Honorable Prime Minister has also mentioned of using more and more Param Rudra to, that's the supercomputer-based server, to improve the, let's say, technical capabilities of our R&D, science, and admin networks.
So in the upcoming budget, you are very much focusing towards our end industries, right?
If I understand the sense of your question, in the current budget, we will see some beginnings of government's intention towards investing into electronic infrastructure in many areas.
Understood. Understood. And sir, China has unveiled DeepSeek, right? A new AI that is more efficient and cost-effective as well as compared to the existing GPTs. And we are also entering into the chip manufacturing. So is it going to any way impact our plans or our projections in the terms of lower chip prices going ahead?
So as far as the silicon manufacturing is concerned, we work with a global supply chain. So most of our customers are also global. So most customers have presence in manufacturing in Taiwan, China, in Malaysia, Thailand, U.S., etc. So we don't see any changes in that. However, the implication of DeepSeek, the way it is being construed, is from a different perspective than manufacturing. I think it's more in terms of technological leadership and security-related concerns that countries seem to have. But of course, we really don't know which way this will pan out, but I don't think it will change the landscape of manufacturing aspects. It will still require good advanced packaging capabilities, and India would still require capacities in semiconductor manufacturing, PC boards, etc.
Like I made the initial remarks, we talked about we are now cited good customers who are now talking to us in terms of fine-tuning the Capex so that they can give us the orders, etc. From a manufacturing perspective, it will only improve the amount of, let's say, technology production. Yeah. From political and other contexts, it may cause some little, let's say, anxiety in the short term.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Deepak Krishnan from Kotak Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.
Hi, Sahan. I'm I audible .
Yes, sir, you are.
Yes. Yeah. I just wanted to sort of understand how much of so we've sort of given a revenue guidance of INR 4,500 crores for next year in one of the television interviews. Just wanted to sort of understand, does that include any of these future M&A that we are sort of thinking of? And the related part to that is what is sort of the revenue potential that we are seeing from some of these M&As and tech acquisitions that we have sort of announced?
Yeah. So whatever projections we talked about for FY 2026, right now, does not have any of the acquisitions, etc., because we have not earmarked for these acquisitions. We have some, let's say, in the pipeline. We are evaluating them. Okay? So we are talking about our existing ESDM business plus PCB business and plus silicon business, building revenues and then going to whatever number that we talked about. So these also the profitability projections and everything else is also based on the existing set of projects and businesses.
And also, sir, maybe just wanted to sort of understand, obviously, we've sort of seen a minor deferral this particular quarter due to smart meter and some of those products. But anything else that we have kind of seen from a hiccup perspective, given that we've expanded rapidly from, I said, Chamarajanagar now to Hyderabad and all these new facilities, from a capability perspective, how are we sort of positioned in terms of team, in terms of size, such that these kind of hiccups, there's a lower probability of that sort of happening in the future?
Yeah. So Deepak, we must first of all understand that this production and all of these things are a continuum, right? So when we set up capacities, we expect them to fire up a little earlier. Sometimes it takes a little longer, especially if there are significantly different, let's say, larger capacities like Hyderabad factory was a new factory. And so now, of course, it is running full steam. It took a little bit of time when you implement a new factory. So these kind of hiccups will happen probably in the future too, but they will not be significant in nature to, let's say, change the cumulative business potential or cumulative business delivery. So yeah, maybe one quarter, some little less than one quarter, little more will be there. But that's the nature of how expansion happens. Now we're going to have Silicon Assembly coming in.
So now we are taking lessons from the previous new projects to see to it that we don't get into similar situations and delay our revenue delivery. So we are kind of pulling in a little bit the plans for revenue delivery in silicon and in PCB, etc., so that even if there is a practical delay, it does not affect the commitment to our customers or markets, etc. So we are just building in some little buffers. But this is a continuum. So if you miss something now, it continues and it gets delivered later. So yeah, there will be obviously, as we go along, challenges in execution. But now we have also onboarded a lot of people. You'll notice that employee costs have gone up and so on. So we have onboarded newer companies, new top management, new, let's say, technical management, etc.
So we are earnestly looking at making sure that we have enough of bandwidth in the manpower so that we can address all of these emerging businesses.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Bharat from ASK Investment Managers. Please go ahead.
Yeah. For the current year, when you talk about margins exceeding 15%, I suppose you mean operating margins without counting other income, right?
Yes, sir. This is just your operating EBITDA.
Other income is in addition to that?
Yeah. Other income will be in addition to that because that does not require us to do anything. So yes.
And over recent quarters, our other income seems to have increased sharply. Say anything special there?
No, sir. Actually, when we year-on-year basis, if you see, so the last year, same quarter, we had not got the QIP proceeds. This year, we have the QIP proceeds. So whatever income comes out of unused QIP proceeds is showing up as other income here, essentially. Otherwise, there is nothing different. The operating income also has shown an increase, at least I think, if I recall correctly, about 40 basis points compared to last year. So that, of course, the operating income increase is driven by gross margin increase. And of course, we had a little bit of increase in employee costs and other costs. But despite that, we are able to deliver. And then maybe next quarter onwards, these will also get leveraged. So hopefully, we'll be able to do this 15%+ of operating EBITDA for the whole year.
For the year 2025-2026, we are talking of operating margins without other income of 16%.
Yeah. That's the target, sir, 15% minimum. 15% is the standard margin that we talked about. We are hoping that some more leverage of expenses will happen, and so some percentage of expenses will come down because all of these new businesses that we have acquired will start also piling up on revenues, so yeah, we are thinking of between 15% and 16% of EBITDA, which is an operating income basis.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Akshay from C D Integrated Services Limited. Please go ahead.
Hello. Am I audible, sir?
Yes, sir, you are.
Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, my first question is regarding electric vehicles, so this year, EV models are expected to surpass the ICE models. And we have seen many new launches of EVs in the Bharat Expo as well. So how do you see our EV business picking up in the FY 2026 and the coming years?
Sorry, I didn't get it clearly. Can you just repeat the gist of your question, please? If you don't mind.
Hello. Is it better now?
better, sir. Can you repeat?
Yeah. Not an issue. Sir, I just wanted to ask about the EV. So in Bharat Expo, we have seen many new model launches in the EV, and it is expected to surpass ICE models. So how do we see our EV business picking up? And can you give us some color on our customer front, sir?
Oh, excellent. Excellent. So basically, EV business, of course, one year ago, one and a half years ago, we used to be only four-wheeler EV. Last year, we added two-wheelers. So now we have added three-wheeler EVs too, and also EV infrastructure, which is chargers, etc., and some EV components. So what we have done as a company is that we have added an entire portfolio of EV production into our fold. And so we are ready to deal with whatever orders that there are there. Obviously, as we go forward, EV business will depend on marketplace. Maybe the two-wheeler is already stabilized, and it's getting into some kind of a regular business. Four-wheeler, of course, a lot of experimentation, a lot of new models coming in. And infrastructure, yeah, it's out there. Significant investments probably will be made in the coming years.
So we are geared up to deliver whatever EV business requires, both in terms of two-wheeler, four-wheeler components, and infrastructure. So we have clients in each of these areas. So whichever fires up, I think we stand to benefit.
Okay, sir. And sir, my second question is regarding the OSAT facility. So how confident we are to commercialize our OSAT facility in Sanand from the half to FY 2026? And follow-up on that would be that margins, we have said earlier, we have said that OSAT facilities' margin would be higher in excess of 20%. So can our blended margin, what we have guided for 15%, can be that increased in FY 2026 and the ongoing FY 2027, FY 2028?
Yeah. So I'll answer your second question first. The blended margin in FY 2026 will not get significantly altered because only fourth quarter we will kick in. And also, the initial stage of production, we may not be able to maximize the margins. But yes, going forward to FY 2027, 28, etc., the margins will be significantly higher in the OSAT area, which we have mentioned will be similar or even better. So as far as the project progress is concerned, we have already acquired the land. Bhoomi Pujan has done. Development is happening right now. And maybe the first building is under construction. So probably by the first half of next year, we should have the factory running. And we also want to target to kind of onboard some customers by then. But our real revenues will start in the fourth quarter of FY 2026.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nikhil Pandya from ICICI Prudential Life Insurance Limited. Please go ahead.
Thank you. There is just one accounting question. So what is the cash flow from operations for, say, nine months? And related question is that the kind of growth guidance that you are giving for core business, 4,500 crore of revenue next year, that incremental 1,500 crore of revenue would require ballpark 500 crore of working capital requirement. So I mean, looking at our balance sheet from net cash to net debt because of our growth journey, so how this net cash, net debt position and OCF would look in FY 2026?
So, firstly, FY 2025 itself, we had earlier talked about an OCF, which was a significant portion of our EBITDA supposed to be. For some reason, up to third quarter, we have not been able to do. But I am confident that by fourth quarter, we will have definitely positive cash flows. OCF will be certainly positive. How much percentage of EBITDA will be OCF positive, we will have to see depending on how the working capital numbers fall in. So we had also predicted an increase in net working capital days from last year's 85 days to average net working capital to a smaller number. We are attempting to do that. I don't know exactly where we will reach, how much, let's say, money will get freed up by reducing the net working capital because also next year's numbers have to be done.
There will be some, let's say, pressure towards increasing inventory for April, May, June execution, etc. But having said all of these things, fundamentally for the FY 2025, FY 2026, if you were to look at the additional revenues, at least 2/3 of it comes from our business in EMS business. And then maybe a third or even less than a 1/3, a little more than 3/4 and 1/4, let's say, additional comes from newer businesses, and 3/4 come from existing businesses. And so they will require some additional, let's say, working capital support. So we are going to make sure that we work with our suppliers. Already, we have talked to them. This program is a bit, let's say, delayed right now. We probably should have done it by now.
But anyway, it's taking some time to keep local stock so that our inventory base can be controlled so that we don't have to invest so much into working capital. Second thing is we are also talking to many customers in terms of recourse-less financing from their side. So they also have strong balance sheets and so on. So with these together, hopefully next year, we may have less than proportional increase in our borrowings, etc., and make sure that we are able to improve the ROCE much better than what we have for this year.
Okay. Just one follow-up. These two projects, PCB and OSAT, so are part of investment by what time? I mean, what are the timelines for, say, deployment of cash for FY 2020? I mean, by what time you will deploy the entire plant CapEx for these two projects?
Yeah, so let me take the Semicon project. For Semicon project, total CapEx is INR 3,300 crores. And it's basically barring some land and building, etc., land building and certain types of things, there's an eligible CapEx. And out of that, the central government gives 50% and state government between 20% and 25%. We're discussing with them for 25%, but at least 20% we give, so 70% of the eligible CapEx comes from the government. And the central government's share of 50% comes on a pari passu basis, which is like in advance of the expenditure. The 20% or 25% of the state government comes in as reimbursement post commencement of operation, so that comes with, let's say, if the central government gives it today, that will likely come between six to eight months later. And so that's the way in which it will happen.
Of course, we have to bring in our equity portion along with the central government's money. So our money, central government's subsidy adds together, and then six-to-nine months later, the state government subsidy comes in. As far as the PCB is concerned, there are INR 1,400 crores of total Capex. And we've been able to secure close to about 60%, let's say, government subsidy, both central and state put together. In this case, they are not coming in advance, but they all come within a year, and they all come on commencement of operations. So there is a six-to-nine months. So we put in our money first, our share, and start getting the government's thing after six-to-nine months. That is commencement of operation. But there are also cash subsidies. We are not in kind.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aniruddha Joshi from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. So thanks for the opportunity and congrats for a good set of numbers. Sir, if we look at the guidance of INR 2,800 crores and nine-month results versus last year Q4, so we are looking at roughly 67%-70% revenue growth in Q4. And to maintain 15% margin for the full year, we are looking at 16%+ margin in Q4. So is this understanding correct?
Yeah, it is correct.
You are right. You are right because we are going to, this is Ramesh Kunhikannan here. We are going to exercise orders of our aerospace and defense, which had actually pushed out for the last quarter. So we have calculated this. So your calculation is right.
Okay. Sure, sir. This is very helpful. Thanks. And secondly, a second and last question. Now, we are seeing a massive amount of consumption slowdown. And in order to boost the consumption back, the government is coming out with various schemes like Ladki Bahin Yojana in Maharashtra or even in Delhi. We are seeing some promises, etc. So with that, do you think that there might be some slowdown in the investment-related projects as government may prioritize consumption-related themes a bit more? So any broad understanding on that will help. Yeah. Thanks.
I'll just answer this question. So see, so far, we have seen a consumption stalled, quote-unquote, "consumption stalled" market already. And so whatever revenue growth we are showing is on the face of not very high government investment into infrastructure and all that.
So it can only go up because there are certain essential investments that government has to do. It has to do with railway safety. Railway is one of the primary modes of transportation for citizens of the country. And so kind of two years have passed since government themselves made a determination that they have to upgrade 6,000 stations, and they have to put Kavach, etc. So we are hoping that this budget will make a beginning. So we don't see any risk. In fact, we see an acceleration. And also, the other projects like telecom, etc., will become very important for national security. As you know, the telecom infrastructure is what it is, using all different types of nationalities of equipment. And I think government has a program to make it completely indigenous-driven technology for our safety security.
So the kind of areas which help us are essential areas. So even if there is a pressure, maybe non-essential areas investment that may get stuck and not really essential areas. And we work on the essential areas.
Mr. Aniruddha, does that answer your question? We do not respond. We will move on to the next question. The last question is from the line of Indrajit Agarwal from CLSA. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. I have a couple of questions. In the TV interview and over here also, you talked about U.S. acquisition. So just to understand, what kind of ticket size, what business profile are you looking at? Is it more on the downstream or similar EMS business?
Yes. We target low-ticket size, anywhere between INR 35 million to INR 50 million a piece. We target companies which are similar or better in terms of profitability. And we target companies which are working in areas where we don't have ourselves a good portfolio of business. And we are also working for companies which can culturally be entwined into our own system. The basic idea is that in respective geographies, we must have a footprint there itself to grow the business. So it gives us some good starting, let's say, quantum of business which we can. So that's the kind of criteria for acquisitions that we are talking about.
Sure. Thank you. My second question is, at the current gross block level of the EMS business, what kind of revenue can we clock?
Current gross block. See, the assumption embedded in that is that post-IPO, already, I think there's still about 40-odd crores left to be invested out of those funds. So let's say that will give us this year, let's say, anywhere between 2800 and 2900 crores, plus that 40-odd crores can give us another 300 crores. So let's say about 3,100 crores we are good for, and there will be investments also by end of the year. Some cash generation also will be there. So we'd probably invest another on an ongoing basis, about 200-odd crores of investment. So we can say that roughly the EMS business is good to grow anywhere between 40%-50% on its own by generating its own revenues and then implementing CapEx.
Sure. And lastly, it's been a while, almost quite some time that you have acquired Iskraemeco. So any difference in the working capital days over there versus your existing business?
Iskraemeco. No, no. Actually, it's exactly the way we thought, and also, slowly, the complexion of business is also changing for Iskraemeco, so the problem that we face is not because of that. In fact, that is helping us actually in terms of quick turnaround because they are all simpler businesses to do in the sense that the variety is lower, and it's a technology-driven business, so we don't see any negative effects of that.
Sure. Thank you. That's all from my side and all the rest.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take this as the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to Ms. Bhumika Nair from DAM Capital Advisors Limited for closing comments. Ms. Bhumika, your line has been unmuted.
I would like to thank everyone for participating in the call and particularly the management for giving us an opportunity to host. Wishing you all the very best, sir, and any closing remarks from your end?
Thank you.
Okay. Thank you for everybody in participating. JPS, you want to add anything?
No, that's all. Thank you. Thank you very much. It was a good set of questions, and we are also available for any now that we are out of the silent period, so you could contact us, and we can give you further explanations on any of these numbers that we are providing.
Thank you. On behalf of.
Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of DAM Capital Advisors Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.