Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Kaynes Technology Q3 FY26 investors' conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Deepak Agrawal. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Hoda. Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of Axis Capital, I would like to welcome you all to the Q3 FY26 earnings phone call of Kaynes Technology India Limited. We have with us the management today, represented by Ms. Savitha Ramesh, chairperson; Mr. Ramesh Kunhikannan, executive vice chairman; Mr. Muthukumar Narayanaswamy, managing director; and Mr. Jairam P. Sampath, full-time director and chief financial officer. Now I'll hand over the floor to the management for their opening remarks, post which will open the floor for Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of Kaynes Technology team, I would like to welcome everyone to the earnings call for Q3 FY26. Ms. Savitha Ramesh, chairperson of our board; our managing director, Dr. Muthukumar Narayanaswamy; our CFO, Mr. Jairam P. Sampath, and full-time director; Mr. Sumit Verma, our investor relationship, and Strategic Growth Advisors , our investor relationship partners. Let me begin with a brief overview of our financial performance for the 9-month period ended December 25. Our total revenue stood at INR 23,837 million, reflecting a year-on-year growth of 37%. Operational EBITDA for the quarter was INR 3,778 million, registering a growth of 55% over the same period last year. This translates into an EBITDA margin of 15.9% and expansion of 190 basis points year-on-year. Profit after tax came in at INR 2,726 million, representing a PAT margin of 11.4%. We have an order book of around INR 9,000 million-
Thank you, sir.
90,000 million, which is pending with us. As reflected in the numbers, this quarter represents a phase of consolidation as we strengthen execution and prepare for the next phase of accelerated growth. Before I move ahead, I want to reiterate something that is fundamental to us at Kaynes, which is our deep commitment to our investors and shareholders, and our responsibility to deliver outcomes that align with the confidence you place in us. Over the last few years, as we understood strategic initiatives with investments in the background and parallel integration and building platforms for the future, there have been phases where the translation of strategy into near-term outcomes has taken longer in core EMS than anticipated. We recognize that this has tested patience, particularly in an environment where expectations are understandably high. What is important, however, is that this phase is behind us.
The actions required to realign execution with ambition have been taken, and the organization today is operating with far sharper focus, strong discipline, and highest accountability across all levels. I am encouraged by the fact that the building blocks of our long-term strategy are now firmly in place and progressing meaningfully. Our semiconductor journey has moved decisively from intent to execution. The OSAT facility at Sanand is now operational and steadily ramping up. A key area of concern for many stakeholders has been the approval of the Final Sanction Approval under the ISM framework for OSAT. I am pleased to confirm that this approval is now in place. In parallel, our PCB manufacturing initiative, a critical element of our backward integration strategy, would significantly strengthen our control and position with customers over the electronics value chain.
Unlike most companies, in our HDI PCB business, we are strategically focusing on high-end, complex, and multi-layer PCBs for industries such as defense, aerospace, complex industrial segments, and strategic electronics. This requires us to closely work with our customers right from the early design and development stages. This would help us as a group to have an edge and already be well-positioned and entrenched with the customers to tap into the full business potential of the PCB manufacturing, plus PCB assembly, with our strategic investment in the HDI PCB manufacturing. As we enter this next phase of our journey, we are focused on pairing our strategic relationships and leadership with consistent delivery excellence and sustained efficiency improvements. While this is a crucial transitionary phase for the near term, the directions ahead are far clearer.
The execution engine is firmly engaged, and we remain confident in our ability to deliver sustained value for our investors and shareholders going forward. With that, I would like to hand over the call to Mr. Jairam Sampath. Thank you.
Thank you, Ramesh Ji, and good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for joining this call today. As we start the new quarter, I'm happy to share Kaynes Technology's financial results for the third quarter of FY2026, and I will share with you the highlights of the same. For the nine-month period ended December 2025, the total revenue stood at about INR 238,037 million, demonstrating a year-on-year growth of about 37%. Our operating EBITDA for the period came in at about INR 3,778 million, making it an increase of about 55% year-on-year and resulting in an EBITDA margin of 15.9% and expansion of 190 basis points over last year. Profit after tax reached INR 2,726 million, corresponding to a PAT margin of 11.4%.
Growth from the North American market through Digicom Electronics integration is steadily building, unlocking specialized talent in the high-margin segments, including RF microwave assemblies, broadening our North American customer footprint, and bringing in proven capabilities. Accelerating the global EMS leadership while synergizing seamlessly with the OSAT for comprehensive end-to-end value creation. At Sanand, as indicated by our Executive Vice Chairman, the Final Sanction Approval approval is received. This milestone meaningfully improves the visibility, especially with respect to capital subsidy from the central and state governments, which reduces uncertainty on cash flows and reinforces confidence in both our roadmap and its financial underpinnings. The new PCB HDI multi-layer PCB facility coming up at Chennai gives us a strategic advantage.
This would mean a business potential of about INR 15,000 crore for the group from the customers from a current investment of INR 1,500 crore in the HDI PCB manufacturing operations, achieving the general thumb rule of PCB to PCB of 10% based on our own data. From the same clients, INR 1,500 crore of PCB revenues and INR 13,500 crore of EMS revenues are likely. At Kaynes, we remain committed to expanding our capabilities and geographic reach through strategic investments, amplifying innovation, efficiency, and holistic solutions for verticals like aerospace, industrial, automotive, and rairways. With this, I complete my initial remarks and would like to place on the record my thanks to the Axis Capital team for hosting this earnings call. I'd like to thank all the participants for committing their valuable time in attending this call. Now I hand over the proceedings to the Axis Capital team to moderate the discussion.
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. In order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all the participants in the conference call, please limit your questions to one per participant. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Siddharth Bera from Nomura. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity, sir. First question is on the revenue side. I mean, we have consistently sort of been able to get a lot of good orders in terms of inflows and order book, but the gap in terms of execution seems to have widened a bit in terms of the growth and the revenues. So can you just talk us through some of these things? How long does the current order book get executed, and where have you seen some delays, and how do you expect this to translate into revenues in the next few years?
If you look at it, our order books are not cancellable. These order books, we have lead times, but customers don't take our products unless their entire project is aligned. So in a project when there is a slight alignment problem, then they hold certain inventories. So that is where the catch is. Then there are occasions where we have not yet got approvals from various agencies for starting deliveries and things like that. That is why, against our plan, there is a shortfall of around, you know, 20%. But otherwise, we are still there, and there should not be any problem. This is Ramesh Kunhikannan here.
Got it, sir. In terms of the execution, for the next few years, given this order book, how should we think about the ramp-up in revenues?
So the ramp-up in revenues, if you notice, the order book, monthly order inflow has grown at about 1.5% for the quarter. That means the order book itself is growing at about 50%. And this is mainly all the orders that are there logged in right now are all EMS orders. There aren't other orders like PCB and OSAT, etc. So those orders will also probably get added. And so you will start seeing the execution pipeline with orders a little better than what are already on hand. And the fundamentals have not changed. Our order book represents typically a 12-month rolling forward basis. It represents about 1.5 years' worth of orders, which continues to be valid even now. And as we go forward, maybe some more orders will be available for future.
The order book may grow at a rate higher than the actual sales growth, because we will start covering the ground for a longer period than 1.5 years.
Got it, sir. The second question is around the cash flow side.
Sorry, Dr. Bera, but can you please rejoin the queue for more questions?
Sure.
As there are more participants left in the queue.
Sure, sure.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sonali from Jefferies India. Please go ahead.
Sir, thank you for the opportunity. So my first question is regarding the working capital. Now, we understand that this quarter, the working capital was elevated even sequentially, about 23 days higher as compared to September 2025. So firstly, what is the reason for this? And secondly, we maintain our guidance of bringing down the net working capital to 85 days by March 2026. So could you help us understand exactly what journey or what steps will we embark upon to bring that down? Because this seems like a sizable shift from 139 to 85 days within a quarter.
Yeah. So, Sonali Ji, thank you for joining this call and then your question. See, fundamentally, the number of days calculation is based on revenues which are generally recognized during that period. So when you go to the end of the year, generally the revenues, especially in the last quarter, are much higher. So in terms of leverage you'll get in terms of number of days itself will be significant because last quarter we do almost 35%-40% of our entire sale. So that's one reason why the number of days would improve on their own. The second thing is some of these, like our Executive Vice Chairman mentioned, most of these orders are custom-built orders. They are bespoke orders. And we do acquire materials because especially the environment is a little uncertain.
So we make sure that we give priority for execution of orders rather than just efficiency alone, because the customers depend on us to deliver the PCB. So we sometimes deliberately keep a little higher amount of inventory. But that evens out in the last quarter when the throughput from the company will be much higher. And so we'll end up number of days improvement in terms of net working capital will show up just based on inventory alone. Plus, of course, we are also taking some steps in the receivables area. And a lot of execution will happen in the fourth quarter, which is in the supply chain finance-based execution. So we will have lower receivables. So your total working capital, net working capital in terms of number of days, especially when the denominator is also larger, will improve compared to the intervening quarter.
So, typically, what we expect is about 70-85 days. Last year, it was 85 days. We have not made significant improvements because we have to contend with our delivery schedule for customers and be ready to deliver, sometimes a little more inefficiently. But we are getting there in terms of improving this efficiency too. So you can expect about 85 days and better net working capital. And that is fueled by number of days, which is based on a larger sales base, and then, of course, inventories which get consumed because we execute more business.
Sir, just an extension of this one, you know, the spike this quarter is mainly because of the receivable days, higher receivable days, same as last quarter. So if you could help us understand as to exactly what you have in mind to bring down the receivable days, that would be helpful. And secondly, the orders which are deferred, you mentioned in your television interview this morning that there is a deferral in the railways coverage order worth INR 3 billion, which is why you have brought down your revenue guidance as well. So is coverage the only order which has been deferred, or there have been any more orders which we can expect in queue for? Thank you.
Yeah, yeah, thank you. So there are many customers. We have almost close to 300+ active customers. And of course, the top several customers, like 25, 30 customers, they're bringing the most of the revenue. So obviously, something or the other keeps changing. This is a dynamic environment that we work in. So we do have this problem to contend with every quarter. We have got our own method of dealing with it too. So, at this point in time, it happens to be coverage because it's a safety-critical item, and we have just made sure that the design that we put out doesn't need to have any upgrades, etc. It is actually the design we already have is approved, but we have decided to go for the next revision, which will give us better field performance too.
So that's one reason. And in terms of receivables base, the only way in which there are two ways in which we improve that. One is to discount at the customer's limit, which is like supply chain finance. And a lot of banks have come forward along with the customers and who have spare limits to allow us to discount. So we are reducing the receivable days by going for supply chain finance. The second thing is we are improving also the collection efficiency. And so as we exit this year, we hopefully will have working capital, net working capital under control, as well as the cash flows should at the operating level turn positive.
Thank you, sir, and all the best to the team. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aanchal Lohade from Nuvama Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good afternoon, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. 2 questions. First, if you could help us with the, you know, absolute value of the inventory receivable and payable, please.
you want the actual numbers of,
Yeah. Yes, sir. Because, I'm just wondering, you know, how the days are calculated. Are you annualizing the quarter? Are you taking trailing 12 months? You know, from that? And whether you're using one.
If we could put off a small note on this because this would take up time just explaining how we calculate. But in terms of number of days, at the end of the year, it is the entire year's opening and closing divided by 2. And for the period also, it's opening plus closing divided by 2. And if you want, we can. It's there in the public domain. So we, if you want, we can send you this calculation, actually.
Sure. By any chance, the December numbers are handy with you, sir? Receivables, payables, and inventories? The absolute value?
Yeah, yeah. December numbers will, yeah. Yes. Yeah, special review report has been made as per the city guidelines. So these are not audited numbers. Just hold on.
Sure.
Yeah. So inventories are at about INR 1,226 crores. And receivables are at about INR 1,249 crores. And corresponding payables are at about INR 97,970 crores.
Understood. And this receivable includes the non-current receivable as well, right?
Yeah, yeah. Receivables means current period receivables. Remaining will appear in the other non-current assets.
How much would that quantum be?
Yeah. That will be about INR 103 crore. Yeah, yeah.
Got it. Got it. The second question I had, you know, with respect to the.
Sorry to interrupt, Mr. Lohade, but can you please rejoin the queue?
Sure. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Renu Baid from IIFL Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, good afternoon, team. First, can you help us understand what were the numbers of revenues coming in from the metering business? And how was the revenue growth at smart metering for 9 months, FY26, and expected numbers for fiscal 26 overall? And also, in terms of our initiative to reduce overall working capital, what is being done to reduce the long-term debtors from the metering business that we were carrying forward from Iskraemeco?
Yeah. So thank you, Renu Ji, for joining the call. So in terms of revenue, I think last quarter is going to be a busy quarter for us. And we would probably cross, including the last quarter for FY26, we'll cross about INR 4,000 crore minimum, and mainly driven by EMS revenues. As you know, the newer projects will take some time to settle down.
300 crore will be metering.
Maybe about INR 300 crore will be metering revenues out of this. See, fundamentally, then in terms of receivables reduction, we have identified a bank, with whom we will do funding, that is funding the annuities payments, which are sitting in other non-current, other, non-current, assets. So that process is on. We have done experimental discounting of about INR 60-odd crore. And the remaining also, we will attempt to do that. It has taken a little time, more than what we anticipated. But I think we are getting there. So this one particular bank will help us to at least get rid of this thing. And also, you'll be happy to note that most of the metering revenues, we are now converting it to a device business wherein we don't have to actually put up these kinds of annuity put up with these kinds of annuity payments.
Going forward, the quantum of these payments will be much lower once we are done with the Gujarat project. All the other projects are all based on device model wherein we actually become like an EMS player or ODM player for devices.
Got it. Got it. What is the growth ex metering for the 9 months, 26?
Sorry? Can you repeat that?
What is the revenue growth X of the metering segment or the line of business for nine months, FY 2026?
It will be, by and large, around 40%, actually. So our, so as you know, the growth has not come in metering segment. Growth has come in all other segments. So, so we are getting back to our, original, diversified portfolio. So last year, we did about INR 500 crore - INR 600 crores of this business. And this year, not much more than that. So, I'm talking about the metering business. So in terms of growth for the other products, it's pretty strong. And, as we go forward, you will see more and more of, all the other revenues coming in.
Got it. So just clarifying again, for first half, EMS growth ex metering was approximately 10% range. And you're suggesting for nine months, FY 2026, it's about 40% YOR.
Yes. Correct.
Have I got the numbers right?
Yeah, you've got the numbers right.
Sure. Thank you. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. A request to all participants: please restrict your question to one question per participant. For more questions, please rejoin the queue. The next question is from th e line of Sumeet Sinha from Macquarie Capital. Please go ahead.
Yes, thank you very much. My question was primarily longer term. I mean, you've reiterated your billion-dollar guidance for fiscal 2028, so basically doubling from where you are right now, slightly more than double. Can you break it up for us? You know, obviously, things have changed a lot in the last 9 months since you initially gave guidance. But how much of that is the core EM EMS, August, smart meters? Can you bridge that for us? Because I'm getting, like, a number, like a 30% organic growth rate. So if you can shed some light on that, like, what are the key drivers of that growth? Thank you.
See, on the growth, what we have projected $1 billion, we are still sticking onto that because for us, from our bare board, from our OSAT, additional buildings are going to take place. And for us, from our EMS, which is by the time going to be a lot of indigenization taking place because of the government compulsion. So I am very certain, and seeing the way the order inflow is happening, we are definitely going to reach there for those numbers. And there is no doubt we are having. If you see our order pending on the aerospace, defense, then railways, then segments like Kavach, which is taking place, if you see many Kavach businesses are getting disqualified, and Kavach, they are strengthening, all the technological needs. So we have chance to gain a lot out of that.
I am very certain we achieving a number of a $1 billion will definitely be achieved.
Samit sir, can you specify how much has any projections changed for your OSAT PCB business?
Yeah. So.
Within that context?
So, Sumit ji, yeah, Sumit ji, thank you for joining this call and the question. See, essentially, we don't plan in such a way that, you know, we exactly cut-to-cut planning. That means the total is equal to A plus B plus C. So we do plan. So when we conversationally talk about plans, individual plans are stretched beyond what they ultimately will contribute. So by that, what we mean is these two new projects, which are OSAT and the PC board, they are in the stage of final implementation of the first phase of factories. And our focus right now is to get them going. So at the minimum, you can expect INR 1,500 crores from our OSAT business. Similarly, you can expect about INR 1,000 crores from our PC board business.
Now, beyond this, fine-tuning at this point in time, when they start delivering, then we can probably fine-tune these when we start managing the order book, etc. Right now, we have agreements within place for OSAT, three clients. So we are looking at at least INR 2,500 crore coming in. That does not mean that the EMS business is not going to grow. It also means that there'll be similar pressure on EMS business. And we are just making sure that we don't overcommit and build expectations, which we, which due to even environmental reasons, you know, sometimes don't get fulfilled. So that's why you'll have the plans of A and B and C. That is EMS, OSAT, and PCB. Individually, if you total up, it'll show you a different picture. But actually speaking, there's an interplay.
And then at some point in time, we'll call out the actual number, maybe closer to FY 2028, which is like another three quarters. Hence, you'll have more clarity on how these numbers will be. But what I have told you for both OSAT and PCB, that's the target given to those companies, those subsidiaries. And also, the EMS is the balance at the minimum balance. And then there could be other additions too. So at this point in time, I would not like to comment on how better it can be. But we'll do that three quarters later. Yeah.
Okay. One clarification. The order slippage that happened in the third quarter, that stayed in the order book number.
Sorry to interrupt, Mr. Sinha, but can you please rejoin the queue?
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Indrajit Agarwal from CLSA. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you for the chance. Couple of questions. First, the industrial revenues look to have fallen this quarter YoY. If you do a back-of-the-envelope calculation, so what has driven that? And second, just a clarification, of the INR 1,700 crore top line expected in 4Q, INR 300 crore is smart metering. Is that correct?
Come again? Come again?
1,700 crore?
Yeah, in 300. Yeah. In 300. That is correct.
1,700, I did not hear.
Yeah. So that is correct. That is correct. And also, the industrial slowdown, because of less reliance on smart meter does not mean that we don't want to deliver those. But it is just that it so happened that other businesses also fired up. So we are getting back to our old, let's say, diversified portfolio approach wherein we have almost four to five verticals individually firing up. So hopefully, the fourth quarter will have INR 300 crore of smart meter, but the remaining will come from our traditional businesses, which includes railways, aerospace, automotive, and other industrial, non-smart non-smart meter-based industrial, electric vehicles, and so on. Yeah.
All right. Thank you. I have more questions. I'll join back.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Praveen Sahay from PL Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. My question is related to the order book of INR 9,000 crore. Can you give some color on the segment-wise? How is the order book? Is there any concentration on any particular sector?
No concentration at all. If you see how the pattern is, it is the same way because we supply to customers who are regularly doing production. So we don't have a concentration of any one if you see our top customer is not more than even 6% of the overall turnover. The trend is also like that only going forward also, as of now.
Okay. So thank you, sir. I have more questions. I'll come back in.
Yeah. Sure, sure. Please do that.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Manish Ostwal from Nirmal Bang. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. I have only one question. Sir, last year, also, we guided INR 3,000 crore of revenue, and we ended up INR 2,700 crore. And at the beginning of the year, we guided INR 4,400 crore. Now, we are targeting INR 4,400 crore. So when you say the billion-dollar revenue, what are the risks we are seeing which will hurt not to achieve those things? So can you elaborate those things? It will be quite helpful to keep the right expectation for the growth. No. We understand. So, we have always, while we have guided numbers for any particular period, we also said that it is not a quarterly basis. It's not as if the demand goes away, and the orders are carried in the order book. And then we plan for these orders anywhere between six months to five years time frame.
We get the orders in. So what happens is the orders get rescheduled. And on that, we don't have too much control. While we can prognosticate, we can probably forecast such things. As we see current trend, I think there is a fair bit. It's evened out now. It's come to normalcy. And there are no postponements getting received from major customer groups. So that's why the guidance for quarterly number is not the appropriate way. There are two ways of looking at the company's performance. One is a leading indicator. Other is the lagging indicator. Lagging indicator is the actual billing. Leading indicator is the order book. And order book health has been good. We are growing at about 50% per annum basis, and that's the monthly order inflow, so which is what you should consider.
At the end of the year, like, we said, there's a railway product which got postponed. Being a new product, we don't want to aggressively push this through. We want to give time to all our designers to better put their best foot forward so that we can get a bigger share of the business. Earlier, we were talking about 15% of total business of things like Kavach. We might do better if you put a better product in the field. It's a matter of just a couple of months while it may look like a big sales drop. But actually speaking, no. It is just that we are taking our time to make sure that the correct product is supplied, correct solution is supplied to the customer so that we can in future look forward to a bigger share of the market. Thank you, sir.
All the very best for high-quality execution for F28. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Naushad Chaudhary from Aditya Birla Sun Life AMC. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. Two data points I want. In the order book, what is the percentage of order book is from the ODM and product engineering? What would be the exact percentage? And what is the absolute revenue of Iskraemeco and August in 3Q? Yeah. So the order book, ODM, as you know, smart meters are ODM. As a device, smart metering solution is an ODM product. So broadly, you can take it as about 20% of our order book contains ODM products, which are, like you may expect, better margin products. And they help us do better. So that's. What was the second question, sir? Revenue share from the Iskraemeco and August in 3Q. Absolute revenue. Yeah. So for yeah, like Ramesh ji had pointed out, the last quarter, we do about INR 300 crores of metering business.
So, like, we have been always saying that the percentage of, let's say, composition in terms of, smart any particular product category like smart meter or anything else is going to stabilize at a level which is, which does not in, increase the concentration or reliance on, on particular product group. It is just that sometimes, every year, there is a new product, a new vertical, which, comes up as a, let's say, major influence for growth. So earlier, it used to be automotive. Then it became electric vehicles. Then it, has become smart meter. And next year, will be certainly a year of, where we do aerospace and railways and so on.
So, from the perspective of percentage of sales, for the last quarter, you'll have about INR 300 crore of this business coming in, which will total up to about between INR 700 crore and INR 800 crore of smart metering business for the year. Sure, sir. Thank you all the best.
Thank you, Noah Glass. The next question is from the line of Santosh Seshadri from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead.
Thanks for picking up my questions. My first question is on the smart metering business. So is there any conscious shift away, from this, you know, from, smart metering business, given the working capital changes there? Is that a way to reposition this business, probably by utilizing the existing capacity to target export market? Working capacity in the EMS company a little bit. Yeah. So can you repeat the question? I didn't, fully clear about the first part of the question. Can you repeat the question, please? Yeah, sure. So, my question is whether, whether are you, consciously, you know, targeting away from the smart metering business, you know, given the, you know, working capital cycle there? Is that is that a way to realign this business to target, export markets by utilizing the existing capacity? No, no. So, Mr.
Seshadri, we, we are not targeting away from any particular business. We are only changing our, role, into a device maker, which is our primary role. That is ODM solution maker, wherein we design the product, and we, own the software. And then we supply the device. We, we are not. We are only saying that we will be away from the, AMISP business. AMISP business. Kind of business. But, meter as a product, which we were doing it for the last 5, 6 years, we are continuing to do. We'll continue to do. And then you can look forward to newer type of measurements and meters, etc., also in the future. Once we, we complete our trials and testing, etc., we will come back to and, come back to you guys and inform. Thank you.
On the second part of the question, is that a way to increase?
Sorry to interrupt, Mr. Seshadri, but can you please rejoin the queue?
Yes, sir. I'm sorry.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Meet Jain from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Just one question. Just to understand this, lower growth in 3Q, is there any spillover and if it's regarding to which project or which segment of our business?
Yeah, Amit deep. So, like I said, the railway ramp-up did not happen. As you know, railway, we have got two, two different distinct set of products. One is manufacturing. The other is ODM business. In both, there's a bit of a lag in both of them. So we can look forward to this thing coming up in the fourth quarter and a quarter later. Like Ramesh ji said sometime back, our orders are not, they are not momentary in nature. They are a part of a project. So what happens is this gets postponed. So we don't want to comment on specific projects because there's a bunch. We make in a year about 6,000 different products for 300+ customers. So obviously, there is a kind of a mix that keeps going up and down.
What we can tell you, Amit ji, is that there's no significant, let's say, concentration of something which has happened, which is not, which is like a trend. So this is a normal thing that happens in our business. That's why we always say ours is not a quarterly business. Ours is an order book business. And like I explained earlier, the leading indicator is the order book itself. And the lagging indicator is the actual billing. Both are important, I know. But then that's how to look at this particular product. So it's not one specific thing which has got postponed. And there's a bunch of things which got postponed. But I'm happy to tell you that all of those orders are still intact. And we'll probably do some of it in quarter four and a lot of it in the next coming year.
Understood. So our guidance of this, around INR 40 billion kind of so this implies almost more than 70% growth in our 4Q numbers. So, how comfortable are we in this number? Or, this should also include some spillover, right?
Yes, sir. So if you ask me comfort, it is not very comfortable to grow at high rates. But then an organization which is growing, and come to a stage like we have come, it does involve some little bit of pain. But it is doable. And, the main thing is.
Also, there is a pressure from existing customers. Once they have allotted a vendor code, they would not like to have multiple vendors for similar type of business. They like to have larger business share given to one company. And then using that, they wanted, them to get the benefit by giving larger share of business.
So we are geared up to do this, numbers that we are talking about. This is how it works. It has worked in the past. It is how this business will continue to work in the short term, in the future, too.
Okay, okay. Thank you so much, sir. Just, if you can give the order book mix for this, closing order book. That would be helpful. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Neel Mehta from Equirus Securities. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Sir, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, two questions. Sir, what will be your nine-month FY 2026 OCF at the consolidated level? And what would be nine months of CapEx? And, it will be very helpful if you can bifurcate it to CapEx number within the core EMS segment, OSAT, and PCB project.
Hi, Neel. Thanks for joining this call. So fundamentally, actually, we kind of missed the goal, scoring a goal here. We are almost cash positive at the holding company level, which has never happened in the past. A lot of effort has been gone in, actually, behind the scenes. You only get to see me and hear me. But actually speaking, there are a lot of people working. And that is not possible to, you know, make a big company turn OCF positive in the short run. But it seems to have happened that we are just about -INR 55 crore. We could have probably done improve that, too. And going forward at consolidated level, we'll definitely be OCF positive by the end of this year. I'm happy to help you with whatever data that is available. You can put it together. And you can reach us also separately.
We can explain to you how this plan is happening. So going forward, what will happen is a throughput of sales will increase. So your inventories and also we are putting in place some supply chain finance activities. So receivables also will yield results. And there are some outstanding items which we have been talking about, which is like the other non-current assets. So we will deal with that too. So this year, you can expect at consolidated level definitely a significant positive cash flow, operating cash flow. And of course, financing activities will continue till the new projects are in place. And we are trying to make sure that these monies are invested early so that we can start reaping the benefits of the business early also because we want the newer businesses like OSAT and PCB also to start generating cash.
So we are mindful of that. So at consolidated level, you'll start seeing OCF positive. And at total company level, definitely FY 2028, you can look forward to a significant OCF in each of the businesses, EMS, OSAT, as well as PCB. So you'll get the positive cash flow in all the three.
Next very helpful. Sir, what will be your nine-month CapEx number? And, if you can bifurcate it within the EMS segment, OSAT, and PCB?
The EMS segment, we have taken a strategy of improving the asset turnover by debottlenecking our existing investments. So as far as the nine-month and the subsequent CapEx for EMS segment is concerned, we may not add significant. Some small amounts of CapEx, we will do, to make sure that the debottlenecking of lines are done and we start getting better, etc., and so on. So for the whatever numbers we have committed, we are not going to implement anything more, any more CapEx in the EMS business. Other businesses, there is already a DPR. The INR 3,200 crore is the total CapEx for OSAT. INR 1,400 crore is the total CapEx for PCB. And OSAT, Ramesh ji mentioned, saying that, you know, Final Sanction Approval has been signed. So we are assured of that 50% central and 20% state government subsidies on the allowable CapEx.
Similarly, here also in the PCB, we have got the factory going. We have received written commitments from government on how much state will give. And then as part of the other earlier program, SPECS program now, there is a subsidy available from central government, too. So as far as the CapEx is concerned, it's a moving number. We would like to implement as soon as possible. We don't want to keep it in limbo. So you can take broadly, in this year, maybe about another 400-odd crore of CapEx will be spent. And in the coming year, we would like to do at least the phase one completely. That is, that means we'll spend about cumulatively INR 1,400 crore in the PCB business. And then, of course, the OSAT business, the phase one will get completed.
That is about INR 1,700 crores-INR 1,800 crores of CapEx. Then we will start adding the further CapEx, maybe in FY28 and towards the end of FY27. So it's not a fixed number. As soon as we reach a milestone, we would like to implement the CapEx. But it's not going to so to cut the long story short, we are not going to come back for any QIP or something. We are adequately funded. And most of these businesses start generating cash also by FY28. So we are sure of making sure that we are able to fund without any, you know, dilution of our delivery in other parts of the business. Individually, businesses have been funded well.
Yes, sir. Very helpful. Sir, you also mentioned that by the end of FY 2020.
Thank you, Mr. Mehta. But can you please rejoin the queue?
Sure. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Viral Shah from Enam Holdings. Please go ahead.
Hello. Yes, thank you for the opportunity. So just a clarification, you guided for the full year, the smart metering business should do around INR 700-800 crores of revenue. So, sir, going into the next year, how are you looking at this number?
Yeah, Neeraj ji, good morning. Good afternoon.
Going forward, this number will be going up because there are many AMISPs who will have to buy from people like us, people like Schneider, who are supplying us devices.
So we.
My own peers are also supplying meters as devices. So, and the market demand is so high for the next 4-5 years. Year on year, there will be a growth of around 30%.
Yes. And also, one more thing is that, like I said, in our business, there are different streams of businesses which are targeting a little higher than what we have realized. Please don't go by this quarterly number this year. This year, I'm sure, the peers and everybody has encountered some headwinds and all that. But all of those are getting resolved now. And in the coming year, you can see growth in smart meter, too. But then that will not increase our receivables or any exposure to, let's say, long-winded receivables. It will be like a device maker. And like Ramesh ji said, it by itself can go at about 30%. Where the company will go, that's certainly larger than that.
Sure. Understood. And just my second question is on, sir, did you share the YTD CapEx number? I remember you saying INR 400 crore would be spent in Q4. What would be the spend so far in nine months?
I can share that separately. I just get the actual number done. But the only thing is, in principle, what we are saying is that we would not like to keep this money in the fixed deposits. We'd like to implement on a timeline basis. So as soon as the milestone is received, we'll take the next, addressing so that the businesses can start delivering, cash flows earlier. So, I'd be happy to clarify that offline separately, if you want to do an accounting of this, exact CapEx that has happened and so on. So we will get you that number. We'll publish that for everybody's benefit. Not a problem.
Surely. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Noah Shah Chaudhary from Aditya Birla Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thanks for the opportunity again, sir. Clarification on the previous question. As our ODM and product engineering order book is 20% of the total overall order book. And does that mean incrementally the gross margin should be under pressure because if I look at last 3-4 quarters the ODM and product engineering revenue share were quite high versus 20% of current order book?
Yeah. No, you would not see much difference because the order book contains orders for those that we visibly see. Something like Kavach and those kinds of things are still yet not added to the order book, because we need to get the final revision of product in the field first before we can recognize that order. So there would be opportunities. The 20% comment was basically the minimum amount of ODM business. And that does not, that's not the limit. Like we said, there are some orders which come in for six months. There are some orders which come in for one year, one and a half year early. And then some orders are there, five years hence too. So you can look forward to this number increasing, and we will see. We will also get orders during this January, February, and March.
They have to be executed, perhaps, in the coming year sometime. When the new version of this radio product that we are talking about is done, then we would take up the orders of these and then start recognizing that in the order book, too. See, order book means the moment we say order book, that means it's a commitment for us to deliver. And we have to make arrangements for the material. That's how we actually make our money by giving the orders early to the suppliers and trying to get, you know, the targeted gross margins. I hope that.
Based on the order book number, should we assume that ODM revenue share should remain around 20% of the overall revenue for next 1-2 years, at least?
No, it will be higher, sir. Things like Kavach will start coming in. So it they will come in chunks. So it will be higher than that. I'm saying what currently is in the order book is the minimum. That's something committed already. Once the correct version of Kavach is there in the field, we'll start buying material for that. And we'll start recognizing the orders in our order book. So that's the minimum. It can go up by about 5%-7%, 5-7 percentage points, going forward.
On this only, sir, your ambition of, you know, taking it to 40% by 2030, do you count your OSAT and PCB into your ODM, or do you count that separately? Your pure EMS business should go to 40% ODM?
Okay. Now, it's a little tricky to say whether EMS business by itself alone only will grow at that number. While we are making all the attempts, and if all the products that we are talking about and all the newer ODM and solutions that we are doing, if that that is in place, then the EMS itself can give you growth. So in FY 2028, if you see $1 billion, we might be targeting more than that, actually, while we we may deliver $1 billion, but we'll target more than that. So OSAT and PCB businesses also, at least minimum reliance is there. We are seeing INR 1,500 and about INR 1,000 crores from the other business, PCB and INR 1,500 from OSAT. But then we might do a little higher than that. And we might do a similar number, overdo a similar number in EMS, too.
So let me put it this way. While we are targeted for individual businesses will be higher. At a consolidated level, we'll definitely deliver this number of $1 billion. That's what we're doing.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Question. So my question was to our 40% ambition of, you know, overall business making it ODM and product engineering. In that 40%, do we count the OSAT and PCB?
No, no, no, no. OSAT and PCB are different businesses, sir. They are not part of ODM. ODM is when we design the product. There is a part of ODM in OSAT, too, which is like test engineering and all that. So that is a services business that that is different. That's not counted in this 40% target.
OSAT is similar to our PCB assembly business. PCB is a little more process-oriented business.
Yeah, better PCB. No, he is asking about this target of ODM. So, the it's based on EMS only, sir, not based on other two businesses. Other two businesses, we may have to reconstruct the name nomenclature a little bit so that we clarify it better.
And one more, if I may, on the receivable days target, which we are, you know, indicating through bill discounting and all those activities, we can bring it down. But everything has a cost, sir. If we, you know, go by bill discounting, shouldn't that, you know, have?
Thank you, Mr. Chaudhary. But can you please rejoin the queue?
Yes, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aditya Bhartia from Investec. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good afternoon, sir. So just wanted to clarify on the operating cash flow point. You're saying that we'll still be operating cash flow positive for the entire year? Because when I look at both inventories as well as receivables, those have gone up very sharply versus last year. So we'll have to kind of recoup a fair bit of losses around in fourth quarter. So have I understood correctly that operating cash flow positive for the entire year and not just for fourth quarter?
Yeah, it will be certainly for the fourth quarter because the numbers are higher. But our target is consolidated for the whole year. We will be operating cash positive.
Okay. And so the other clarification that I required was on the core business growth that you spoke about of around 40% for nine months. Given that last year we had Iskraemeco only in second half, so INR 500 crore was essentially split between third quarter and fourth quarter. And this year, in first half itself, we had done roughly INR 500 crore, even if we assume no further revenues came in in third quarter. Even in that case, it's difficult to see how core revenue growth without Iskraemeco could have been more than 20% in nine months. So where am I getting the calculation wrong?
No, no, you're not getting any calculation wrong. It is just that we are executing other orders, too. Out of the INR 9,000 crore orders that is there on hand, the quantum of smart meter orders is just about 20%. The remaining pertain to EMS business. So we are getting those businesses also fired up in the fourth quarter. Automotive, for instance, there are many new clients. EV, there are new clients, and there are new products. Industrial non-meter-based products are there. Then there is railway. Other than Kavach, also there are businesses that we are working on. Aerospace orders have been hanging fire for a long time, sitting with us. So, so there are orders available at every one of these segments which are actually going to contribute. So we are not dependent just on one particular thing to fire up.
Sure. That's a fair point. So this 40% growth number that you gave was for entire year, not for nine months? 40% growth, without Iskraemeco?
Yes, sir. That even for the nine months, it is, probably correct. We'll reconcile this number and ship it to you. Yeah, yeah.
Sure. Because for nine months, it appears that it should be less than 20% or around 20%. That's why I wanted the clarification. Thank you, sir.
Yeah, yeah. Sure.
Thank you. Due to time constraints, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Yes, sir. First of all, many thanks to the Axis Capital team who have organized this call and all the participants who have taken time off, in a working day and so on, and then listened to us. And they you have been most helpful in terms of your analysis and looking deeper into our processes and all that. And we hope that next time when we meet, you'll probably see an improved delivery of whatever promises that you have seen and whatever expectations that you have. And we as a company also would probably share over the next 2-3 months' time frame some more good news about the way business is shaping up, not merely in the existing businesses, but also in the new businesses. And Ramesh, do you have any final comments, sir?
No, no. Thank you for participation. We are still reiterating whatever we have claimed we will be doing.
Thank you.
There will be some hiccups here and there. Overall, you'll have to look at a longer picture than one quarter.
Near a quarter, yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of Axis Capital Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.