Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Kalpataru Projects International Limited Q4 FY25 Earnings Conference Call hosted by DAM Capital. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Bhoomika Nair from DAM Capital. Thank you, and over to you, Ms. Nair.
Yeah. Good morning, everyone. Warm welcome to the Q4 FY25 E arnings Call of Kalpataru Projects International Limited. We have the management today being represented by Mr. Manish Mohnot, Managing Director and CEO, Mr. S. K. Tripathi, Deputy Managing Director, Mr. Amit Uplenchwar, Director of Group Strategy, and Mr. Ram Patodia, President, Finance and CFO. At this point, I'll hand over the call to Mr. Mohnot for his initial remarks, after which we'll open up the floor for Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Bhoomika. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us on the call today. I'll begin with an update on the key highlights for Q4 and full year FY25 financial results, followed by operating context and performance of individual businesses. Subsequently, I will conclude with the outlook for financial year '26. We have concluded FY25 on a remarkably high, achieving highest-ever revenue, EBITDA, PBT, and order book, driven by exceptional project execution and strong diversified order backlog. More importantly, our balance sheet has grown stronger with sharp reduction in net debt, improved net debt to equity, improvement in ROS, and notable decline in net working capital days. Additionally, we have made visible strides in enhancing the quality of our order book by securing large-sized complex orders in segments like underground metro rail, HVAC transmission and substation, design-build B&F projects, airports, and industrial plants.
These strategic steps are helping us to improve our competitiveness and build niche capabilities in the EPC business in order to be future-ready along with delivering sustainable and profitable growth going forward. Getting into more details on the financial performance front, first, at the standalone level, we achieved one of the best-ever performance in Q4 2025 with revenue, PBT and PAT growth of 21%, 49%, and 61%, respectively. Our standalone revenue for full year 2025 rose by 13% year-on-year to reach 18,888 crores. Our growth in EBITDA, PBT, and PAT was 16%, 20%, and 22%, respectively, for full year 2025. Our standalone PBT margin, was up 110 basis points to reach 5.9% in Q4 2025, while full year FY 2025 , PBT was up by 30 basis points to reach 4.9%, which is in line with our target for annualized PBT in the range of 4.5%-5%.
Our improvement in profitability outpaced revenue growth in Q4 and full year 2025 on the back of higher operational efficiency and better project mix. Coming now at consol level, our full year revenue crossed 22,000 marks with 14%, year-on-year growth in turnover. Our consol EBITDA was up 13%, to reach INR 1,834 crores, and PBT grew by 17%, to INR 823 crores. For Q4 2025, growth in revenue, PBT, and PAT was at 18%, 40%, and 29%, respectively, on a consol basis. On the balance sheet and working capital front, we have further strengthened our working capital profile on the back of our relentless focus on efficient working capital management, funds raised through QIP, and timely project closures. Our standalone net debt witnessed a sharp decline of 40%, year-on-year to reach INR 1,107 crores, and consol net debt declined by 25%, year-on-year to INR 1,953 crores at the end of FY 2025.
Our net working capital declined by five days at standalone level to reach 94 days, and consol net working capital improved to 79 days. As guided at the start of the year, we were successful in bringing down our net working capital much below 100 days. We have also maintained finance cost as a percentage of sales at guided level of 2%, at the standalone level. The strong performance of the debt and working capital fund is despite the elongated receivable cycle in the water business. We have also made investment in CapEx throughout the year, totaling to around INR 600 crores, staying true to our strategic intent of continually strengthening our capabilities to improve project delivery and drive competitiveness. Our consol order book reached an all-time high of INR 64,495 crores, embedded with good diversity across businesses, markets, and project mix.
More notably, we have surpassed our order inflow guidance by securing orders worth INR 25,475 crores in FY 2025. Nearly 90%, of the order wins in FY 2025 are from our flagship T&D and B&F business, which provides us good visibility on the margin and execution front in the coming quarters. Now, coming to performance of respective businesses, our T&D business sustained a strong growth trajectory with turnover crossing the INR 10,000 crore mark, recording an impressive 28%, year-on-year growth in FY 2025. Our order inflows in the T&D business in FY 2025 reached INR 14,461 crores, with a strong growth of 30%, compared to FY 2024. Our India T&D order book reached an all-time high of approximately INR 9,500 crores, with major wins in the HVAC domain, improving our market position and providing good visibility for growth in the coming quarters.
Our subsidiary LMG Sweden reported its best-ever performance with revenue growth of 79%, and highest-ever order book of over INR 2,800 crores in FY 2025. LMG's order book stands at an all-time high of INR 3,535 crores as of 31st March 2025. In Fasttel, Brazil, there is still some ground to cover, and we are working to improve our operations and strengthen the organization. Fasttel, Brazil also posted around 35%, revenue growth for FY 2025 and ended with an order book of INR 900 crores. Business visibility in the T&D business, both in India and international markets, remained robust given continuous focus on energy transition, grid strengthening, and rising power demand. We remain confident that our T&D business will continue to sustain and deliver robust growth in coming quarters and in the next few coming years.
Our buildings and factories business delivered healthy growth of 22%, in FY 2025, with order inflows of INR 8,225 crores and a closing order book exceeding INR 14,000 crores. We secured large orders in the residential and airport segment, along with strengthening our market position and the addition of new clients. Our focus in the B&F remains on securing large-sized design-build projects and enhancing our competitiveness based on a strong delivery track record and robust execution capabilities. In our oil and gas business, we are progressing steadily on the Aramco project, while we deliver revenue growth in excess of 100%, to INR 1,758 crores in FY 2025. We expect the growth momentum in the oil and gas business to continue in the coming year. We continue to focus on international markets for future growth in the oil and gas business.
In the water business, performance was impacted given delayed collection and deferred fund allocation, which has dented revenue growth in FY 2025. However, we are witnessing good improvement in the collection starting Q4. Further, we expect momentum to improve going forward, and we have a healthy order book of over INR 9,500 crores, providing us good visibility. In the water business, we continue to focus on closure of existing projects and remain cautious on future bidding. Having said that, the water business has enormous potential in India and international markets, on the basis of which we continue to strengthen our capabilities and business development efforts. Our urban and infra business recorded revenue growth of 10%, FY 2025, led by robust execution of the metro rail projects. We continue to strengthen our team and capabilities in line with strong visibility in segments like elevated underground metro rail, elevated roads, tunneling works, etc.
In railways, revenues stood at INR 1,019 crores as we continue to focus on project closures and remain selective in new order booking due to intense competition. Our road SPVs witnessed strong growth and per day revenue to INR 77.7 lakhs in Q4 2025 compared to INR 60.3 lakhs in Q4 2024. We have infused closer to INR 75 crores in our road business in FY 2025, mainly towards repayment of debt. We are actively working to close the VEPL transaction in FY 2026. Moving into guidance for FY 2026, we have surpassed the INR 60,000 crores order book milestone this year. A key aspect that has been instrumental in our journey has been the diversification of business and markets that we have built over the years.
We will continue to further diversify the mix, expand to new markets, and improve market position in existing business, as we expect order inflows in the range of INR 26,000-INR 28,000 crores for full year 2026. Our order inflows for FY 2026 would be on better margins as compared to the orders taken in the previous few years, helping us improve our profitability in the long run. On back of a strong order book and execution momentum, we will target around 20%, plus revenue growth for standalone and consol basis. We will focus to improve our margins as we expect standalone PBT margin, in the range of 5.25%-5.5%, improvement of 35-50 basis points, minimum over FY 2024, and consol PBT margin, of 4.5%-4.75% for full year, which is improvement of closer to 100 basis points, as compared to FY 2025.
Last but not the least, capital management remains central to our strategy. We remain confident to maintain our net working capital below 100 days on a standalone basis and finance cost below 2%, of sales at a standalone level. Similarly, our debt levels will continue to be in line with the business growth. With that, I conclude my opening remarks and open the floor for Q&A. Thank you.
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. First question comes from the line of Mohit Kumar, with ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Good morning, sir.
Good morning, Mohit.
Thanks for the opportunity. My first question is on, sir, the water segment. Of course, we deliver very strong revenues in T&D and B&F segment, but water has lagged, water has declined year-on-year. Of course, some part is due to delay in payments and delay in execution. But how do you see this segment in FY 2026? Do you think you can improve upon compared to FY 2025?
Mohit, as far as revenue is concerned, we definitely believe we would be doing better in FY 2026 on the water segment. It's going to be as of now, we have not assumed significant growth in that business, given still that we have challenges on old receivables.
We did get payment of around INR 400 crores from some of our old receivables in the month of March, and we expect payments to further improve in May and June. As of now, we have assumed a minimal growth of closer to 10%, in 2026 in our budgeted numbers in water, but we will be revisiting this once we have more clarity on cash flow from the old receivables in the water projects. While we say so, we parallelly continue to explore some international projects on water business and believe that during the year, we should at least have a few significant wins in this business in the international front.
Understood, sir. My second question, sir, is it possible to break the T&D order inflow between domestic and international? And can you give us an outlook on T&D, domestic, and Middle East separately?
Do you think you can grow the order inflow on the high base of last year?
Sir, on the order inflow basis, if you look at the T&D business, we got order of approximately INR 14,461 crores in the previous year. The breakup is literally half and half. The domestic order books were around INR 7,300 crores, and the international order book was around INR 7,200 crores. So in terms of order inflow is concerned, it's been very 50-50 in the previous year in international and domestic. As far as the growth is concerned, we believe that there's a lot of opportunities over the next two years in T&D domestic. A lot many tenders already floated by Power Grid and PFC and REC in terms of creating a stronger infrastructure.
Our own belief is that we should be doing better than this in terms of order inflow in our T&D business getting into the next year or getting into 2026 itself. And anything on the Middle East and international, sir? So we've seen a lot of traction in the international business also, Mohit, given that we see a lot of funding coming back in the African markets. Huge opportunity in Middle East driven by the entire growth pattern in some of these countries and also in Latin America, which is very strong for us, whether it is Chile, Guyana, Suriname, and Brazil. So even on the international business, our first focus continues to be Latin America, then Europe, then Middle East, and then Africa. And we believe that those businesses should also do reasonably well.
Understood. Thank you, Mr . Thank you.
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. Next question comes from the line of Gaurav Uttrani, with Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Good morning, sir.
Morning, Gaurav.
Sir, just wanted to check on margin. We have seen that margins on the standalone level are stable, but we have seen some bit of drag on the consol level. So what was the main reason that we have seen that margins have declined on the consolidated basis? You can tell any specific segment or subsidiary which have not performed well as per our expectation?
No, I think on the consol front, when I look at standalone, there are three or four reasons why margins are down. One, as expected, our road assets still continue to be slightly negative, while they have significantly improved.
Second, we have had some impact come from some of our Saudi projects, which we have taken in our subsidiary Ibn Omairah. These were projects of historical time during COVID time, which have nearly all closed, and we have taken some bad debt. Third, there are some losses in Fasttel, which were expected, although they have significantly improved. So they have significantly improved from the previous year. So it's a combination of all three, four things. The good part is that we believe that we are done on majority of these losses, and that's why we have guided for a closer to 100 basis point improvement in consol margin getting into next year.
So whether it is Saudi, whether it is Fasttel, whether it is road assets where one of them we are exiting and others we have seen improved revenue, we believe that this was all the last two, three years on consol in terms of lower profitability is now behind us. And going forward from here, we should see consol margins improving much faster than the standalone margins.
Got it, sir. Sir, second question is on the order inflow, which you have given the guidance of INR 26,000-28,000 crores. So where we can see that major improvement will be, would it be largely driven by T&D and B&F, or are we seeing some good traction into water and urban infra segment as well for that?
So I just want a broad breakup, like how do we plan for this FY 2026 inflows in terms of to gauge the number of INR 26,000-28,000 crores?
Sir, our largest focus will still continue to be T&D and B&F, as I said on my call earlier. But while we say so, we are seeing good opportunities in oil and gas in the Middle East. We are seeing some reasonably good opportunities in urban infra and selective sectors. We are seeing some good traction coming in water in the international business. So while we say so that our key focus would still be T&D and B&F, but unlike previous year, where T&D and B&F was more than 90%, of our order book, I believe that getting into next year, they might be lower than that 90%, because good traction is visible in the other businesses.
The only business where we continue to stay cautious is railway because we are seeing huge competition there, and that's a segment where we might not even have any orders inflows in the next year unless a few international orders come through. Besides railways, we continue to be bullish in all other segments.
Okay, sir. Got it. Sir, similarly on the margins, my last question, so we have given a guidance of say for more than 5% on the PBT level on a standalone basis, so as you mentioned that we are seeing a better margin for order in the coming year, so would it be largely just contributed by T&D or B&F, or we'll see a strong recovery in the water segment as well, which has been a drag for the company in FY 2025?
So I think just to correct yourself, my margin guidance is 5.25%-5.5%.
And I'm sure 25 basis points, in such volumes make a big difference. It's not 5, but it's 5.25-5.5. To answer your second question, yes, visible improvement, what we have assumed for the current year, it comes across all our businesses. Water, obviously, was a big drag last year, which would definitely improve because we've seen collections coming in March itself. T&D will continue to drive both top line as well as profitability given a healthy order book. B&F, we have been very selective in taking orders, high-value orders. So there also, you'll see margins going up significantly. So across all businesses, I think margins should go up. In some places, maybe 50-100 basis points. In some places, maybe 20-50 basis points. And railways, I think, is somewhere where margins should not improve, but we shouldn't be bleeding further beyond where we are.
Okay, sir. Got it. Thank you, sir. That's all from my side.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Mihir Manohar, with Carnelian Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thanks for giving the opportunity and congratulations on the great set of numbers. Sir, I wanted to understand the substantial increase in cash balance, which has happened in this quarter. I mean, INR 850 crores of cash at parent level has gone up to INR 19-20 crores. Can you reconcile this? I don't know how much has been received from GJM and how much is coming from operational improvement. I just wanted to get a sense on that.
So, Mihir, typically, for Kalpataru, our cash balance is always high because in the last week, we utilized our entire banking limits.
Just so that you understand the framework in which we work as an organization, every last quarter end, every quarter last one week or last three days, we utilize our full limits and keep the cash in cash and bank. A significant portion of the cash balance, which you see, were lying in FDs and liquid funds at the year-end, more than INR 700-800 crores of this number, which is in cash balance. It could be more than 800. Do you remember how much was it?
INR 850 crores.
Around INR 850 crores was lying in a few fixed deposits and liquid funds, which were all utilized in April beginning for our routine business operations. That's the nature of the way we do business operation. You'll see that always for Kalpataru in our historical numbers also.
Understood. Sure. What was the receivable?
I mean, how much was received from GJM? I remember at the start of the quarter, it was some INR 720-730 crores. INR 240-250 crores was in February, which we received. And the 400 crores that you mentioned is in March, right? Which is on the top of that?
Yeah. So I think March we got closer to 300 plus crores, if I'm not mistaken, on all water projects. 370, right? 370 crores. Thanks, SKT . So March we got closer to INR 370-375 crores. But while we say so, April, we've still not seen much inflows in April because typically budgets get frozen and utilized by May. May we are expecting some good traction coming from water businesses and getting into Q1, things should be much better.
Understood. Sure. My second question was on this large-size project.
You mentioned that the international order book is on the HVDC and underground metro side. Just on a broadest basis, I mean, large-size complex projects, let's say out of 65,000 crores, how much % would be large-size complex projects versus, let's say, two years back, we were having 40-45,000 crores? So just to understand the team composition of these large-size projects in the order book.
Sure. So it's important for us to understand that the biggest strength, which we have as KPIL, is the strength of the merged entity of KPTL and JMC. Let me give you some perspective on this. If you go back to FY 23,24, our average order book size was around 280 crores. Getting into 24,25, our average order book size is closer to 390 crores, closer to 400 crores, right?
So first, our average order book size itself has gone up, and it will further go up. Second, if you look at the previous year, based on the combined strength, we have taken some very, very large orders, right? We took orders for a large development in Hyderabad from a large developer, which is closer to 2,000 crores. We took two orders in Guyana on delivery and T&D, which was approximately both put together closer to $300 million. We took an airport at Bagdogra, which was closer to 1,000 plus crores. We took huge orders in oil and gas in the Middle East, driven by a civil mechanical electrical stand, which is $800 million plus. We took large orders in water in Amritsar, again, 1,000 crore plus.
So typically, if you look at it, last year, we've got at least those 8 to 10 large orders, which were in that 1,000 crore plus, which constitutes maybe 50% of our order book. And that's our focus going forward: work with selective clients, large orders where we can utilize the strength of the merged entity. You can utilize the strength of having a good CapEx on a balance sheet and utilize our design engineering skills to make sure that profitability improves.
Understood. Sure. Just my third question was on the order inflow guidance. I mean, 25,000 crores of order inflow we are having this year. Now, given the fact that Power Grid itself has been talking about 20%, 20, 22% growth metrics in FY 26 versus FY 25, also Middle East oil and gas businesses doing well for you.
So even this number on a conservative side, I mean, how to understand the, I mean, what sort of conservatism has been adopted while giving the order inflow guidance?
Yes. So we've just given realistic guidance rather than conservative, but definitely our guidance is with a backdrop of improving margins. Our focus, whatever new order book we build now, our focus is more on improving margins rather than looking at only the quantum. Where we sit today, we have visible order books of closer to two and a half plus years, right? So that's a very good order book in our business. And we believe that if we continuously focus on improving margins, that would be better instead of just taking that order book higher at an absolute level. So our focus next year would be improving margins on the new orders rather than just looking at numbers.
As I said earlier, a significant portion of the order book I still assume would be T&D and B&F, but you will see good traction on the other businesses also.
Understood. Sure. Yeah, that's it from my side. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Nidhi Shah, with ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yes. Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity. My first question would be, how do you see the order inflow and execution in the B&F business for FY 26?
Nidhi Shah, we're seeing good traction in the B&F business in FY 26. Our opening order book is very healthy, 14,000 plus crores. Across all our clients, whether it is residential, commercial, industrial, airports, or data centers, we have a good team which is working on it.
Also, unlike Q1 of last year, where we had elections where labor was a challenge, we do not see labor to be such a big challenge right now. That's also a stark positive compared to where we were at the same time last year. So on an overall basis, we're seeing demand coming up in B&F. It still continues to be strong in all the sectors I mentioned earlier. We have a good order book. We work with selective clients where we have a relationship of decades, which helps us. And we continue to focus more on domestic orders rather than large international projects, although we will continue to explore orders in Maldives, which has been a good base for us. So with all of this, we believe that B&F will contribute significantly into both order book revenue and profitability for the next year.
S.K., do you want to add something on B&F?
No. Hello?
Michelle?
No, no. I had another question. So what will sort of drive the execution in FY 26? So you mentioned B&F and T&D, but within that also, what do we expect to drive execution in FY 26?
No, I think, as I said earlier, execution in 26 is driven by all factors: a healthy order book, good set of clients, reasonable labor availability, reasonable, not necessarily what we need because that continues to be a big challenge, a strong balance sheet, a visible drive at both private sector as well as government level on delivery, improved international presence in a lot of countries. So a mix of this, we believe, would help us achieve this minimum 20%, growth getting into next year.
Lastly, in the water segment, other than collections, are we seeing any other issues in terms of getting orders or execution?
I'll ask S.K. to respond. S.K.?
Yeah, yeah. So no, we are not seeing any other issue in the B&F sector. Water. So no, what was the exact question? Can you repeat? Sorry. Water sector. Sorry. Go on.
Outside of collections, were there any other issues that you're seeing popping up in the water segment? So whether it's related to getting orders, competition, or execution, are there any issues on any other fronts other than collection?
No, so we don't see any other issue other than the collection, which so far during the two months in the current financial year, we are seeing some traction in some states. But overall, if I have to say that is there a positive direction, we are still cautious.
We'll come back or we'll watch up to June how the sector opens up in terms of the collection. Otherwise, there is no other challenge. There are enough projects. Execution is not a challenge. We have enough strength to deliver the projects. But we will be looking at the cash flow as a driving factor to ramp up the revenue and the execution.
All right. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Bharat Sheth, with Quest Investment Advisors. Please go ahead.
Hi. Congratulations, Manish and the whole team on the excellent performance.
Thank you very much.
Manish, sorry.
A question on a little longer term, if you have to, when you say that we are looking for diversifying some of the geography as well as we have a strong order book which is having a large portion of complex projects, better profitability. So if I have to look at from, say, two-year perspective, how do we see when these complex will start rollout and further, is there room to improve the profitability? That is the first part on consolidated level.
Sure. So, Bharat, first, let me just answer your question on the long term and focus clearly. Our clear focus over the last three years post-COVID has been on, first, improving the order book value in terms of large orders, second, improving gross, right, where we started getting out of our non-core things, and third, improving EPS along with strong delivery skills.
If you look at EPS in the last from 32, we have reached closer to INR 40 in the previous year. And currently, based on numbers, we should be targeting a minimum of INR 50. As far as delivery and complex large projects is concerned, I think we have started delivery in the majority of these projects. Our Saudi Aramco project, we have delivered more than one-third of the project in terms of physical already. In terms of our large real estate projects, which were really big in size, we have delivered more than 40%, of our project in the last one year. Next two years, we'll deliver, and it's on time and scheduled. Our Maldives airport project, the first one which we took, is fully ready, and we will be handing over to them in Q2 itself.
Our large Maldives project on buildings and factories, on residential building, is fully handed over or 90%, plus handed over. Our international projects in Guyana, right, and those areas, Guyana, Chile, all of them have done very, very well. So first, we have already started delivering on complex projects. Second, clients have started a lot of belief in our capability of doing design, build, and delivery projects, which is where the focus was last three years. But today, whether I look at B&F, whether I look at urban infra, whether I look at transmission, we do not like to do a simple core and shell or a simple project which is only supplying of labor. We would rather do a full EPC with design-build, and that's our core strength.
Today, at an organizational level, our design team would be more than 300 people, right, across all segments, and it could be even higher. I do not have the exact number. This was the number.
Almost 400.
It's almost 400 plus. Thanks, Amit. And that's where we are focused on. So our improvement in capabilities across the entire value chain, right, from design-build to tendering in domestic and international markets to having a good CapEx base to having this delivery skill set and mindset saying that work happens first, whatever we do, and improved profitability is what is giving us this confidence of improving all numbers. If you go back to our Vision 25, we have slightly failed on it. We wanted to be 25,000 crores by 25, but we missed because of water.
But now we have extended that vision and said, in 2026, how do we reach a number which is 25 plus, let's say, 10%, or something like that, right? And that's what we are driving. So today, where we stand, practically, if you ask me, our biggest challenges continue to be labor availability, which is a challenge for the industry, and larger geopolitical global issues, which hopefully should be behind us, but that's something which none of us can focus or which none of us would have a predictability in any further.
Correct.
Hope that answers, Bharat.
Yeah. So. And I have to look at a second thing, I mean, from the domestic subsidiary, whether road or SSL or this real estate. So when do we expect that will start, I mean, stop bleeding?
No, so let me first answer the easiest question.
Real estate, I think Indore, we have sold off nearly 98%, except for two, three shops we have sold off fully, and we expect all the money to come in the next 60 to 90 days. INR 100 plus crores or INR 130 crores of Indore is all expected in the next 60 to 90 days, so we are out of that. As for road assets is concerned, VEPL, we have already signed a binding agreement and working closely with NHAI to get those approvals. Even on WEPL, we have a cure notice issued from our side as well as from NHAI to us, and that's something over the next six months, we'll have clarity on how do we want to progress with WEPL. BBEPL is a small asset where we're not actually losing money, and it has only three to four years left, so that will see its logical conclusion.
But we are not losing money at that project. As far as Shubham is concerned, we have not actually in the previous year, we have nearly been zero, zero. Our PBT was actually zero on INR 114 crores of revenue. And we expect PBT to be at lower levels of, let's say, 0%-1%, only because that business still is not doing well. But even in Shubham, we have now exited the RSWC agreement because that had a minimum commitment kind of state. So we have exited that, which will also reduce our bleeding to a certain extent. So even there, we see some improvement. So if you look at all the non-core, Indore will be out, Shubham improvement happening, VEPL will be out, WEPL, we are into a cure notice discussion with NHAI right now. So you'll only see things improving right from now.
Even Q1 onwards, you'll see things improving.
Last two, I mean, this is LMG, we had a very high hope. So how do we see LMG over the next two, three years from this 1,000 crore revenue to earlier you had guided much higher growth? And so from here, do we stick and further there is a room to improve order book and?
So Bharatbhai, just to give you a perspective, our Linjemontage revenue for the previous years was 1,800+ crores. It was 1,000 crores in 2023, 2024. 2024, 2025 is 1,800+. We expect that business to grow at a 20%-25% at least for the next two, three years given the order book visibility. Even on margins, they have done exceptionally well.
If you look at 23, 24, that PBT was around INR 21 crores, which has gone up to around INR 70 crores in the current year. That's a big number. While we say the board has also approved appointment of bankers as well as intermediaries to look at fund options, fundraising options in Sweden, Linjemontage in the last board meeting, which we have declared to everyone. We'll be exploring whatever options are available in terms of fundraising and coming back to all of you all over the next six to nine months in terms of what our plans are. As far as the market is concerned, we continue to stay very bullish in that market given the huge opportunity in Sweden, Norway, and the neighboring countries, and with limited players, which gives an advantage on both top line as well as profitability going forward.
And Fasttel side, sir?
South Africa market?
On the fossil side, our revenue was around INR 700 crores in 2023, 2024, which went up to INR 939 crores in the previous year. On the PBT front, we had lost closer to INR 70 crores in the previous year, which has come down to around INR 35 crores. We're working hard to break even this company in the next year. And the board has decided to infuse some capital also, which we took the approval in the board meeting, which happened on Friday. So once we infuse some capital, which will reduce debt and provide some Capex to that business, we expect that in the next two years, this business should start contributing profitability. But I can tell you confidently that numbers will be much better than
what the numbers are right now waiting into the next year. And any new geography that you highlighted in your opening remark?
We continue to explore, and that's one success strength of Kalpataru over the last one decade. We continue to explore new geographies. While we speak, we are looking at two, three more countries, but I'll keep those names with me. I'll be happy to declare it once we have some orders instead.
Okay. Wish you all the best, sir.
Thank you, Bharatbhai.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Vaibhav Shah from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Sir, what are the outstanding receivables from Jharkhand as of March?
I don't have the exact number, but it would be in excess of what? 1,200?
1,500 crores.
Approximately 1,500 crores, which includes billed and unbilled both. Billed would be around 800 plus crores. And there would be unbilled, which in final stages of billing would be 600-700.
So it will be total billed and unbilled around 1,500 crores. But from a billed perspective, it is 800-900 crores.
Okay. And sir, what amount total we received in Q4?
On water in Q4, we got closer to 500 crores, 200 plus. Yeah, approximately 500 crores. I don't have the exact number, but it should be in the range of 500 crores in Q4 we got on water, right? SKT?
Yeah, yeah. It's about 570.
570 crores, sir. Thank you.
Okay. And sir, this 1,500 crore number, over what time frame do we expect to recover?
Sorry, I missed your first question. Which number?
The 1,500 crore receivables over what time frame we expect to recover?
So I'll ask SKD to answer. Yeah, yeah.
So this is still a big question to answer.
So if you look at the distribution of this 1,500, about 400 is in UP where we still don't have much visibility. MP, we have about 300, which is now there is visibility and the states have started responding positively. Odisha, we have about 500. They are also synchronizing. They have started releasing money. And Jharkhand, we have absolutely no visibility. So if you say that today on 1,500, we have visibility to the extent of about 60%-70%. And it should start coming out either in June or in quarter two during July, August. But still, UP is a big question mark. We will see how does it find out.
And just to add to SKD's point, we have inbuilt those assumptions into our projections for next year. So the worst case is already inbuilt.
So even for some reasons, if the money does not come in May, June, and come in July, August, September, it could just be a timing issue more than anything else from an analyzed numbers perspective.
Okay. Okay. So secondly, what were the EBITDA margins in Fasttel and LMG for FY25? And what is the guidance for FY27 or FY26?
So if you look at the easier one is Linjaem ontage, where we did an EBITDA closer to 5.6% in FY25. We expect this to only improve, so maybe in the range of 5.6% in that range. It's not going to go much higher than maybe from 5.6%, it might go to 6%-6.25%. As far as Fasttel is concerned, our EBITDA margin was closer to 2.9% in FY25. We definitely expect this to go up to levels of 4%-5% in the next two years.
Might not be immediate, but over the next two years, we expect these numbers to go to levels of closer to 5%.
Okay. And sir, what was our Capex in FY 2025 and guidance for 2026?
Our Capex for FY 2025 was closer to INR 620 crores. Our guidance for FY 2026 is in a similar range of INR 600-650 crores. We have typically guided based on our depreciation, which we expect to be in the range of INR 400+ crores in the current year and slightly higher than that. So Capex should be in the range of INR 650 crores getting into 2026.
Okay. And sir, loss funding for the BOT portfolio was around INR 75 crores for the year. So what amount should be considered for FY 2026? And by what time do we target to monetize VEPL? Okay.
So just to be very clear, the funding of INR 75 crore was not necessarily loss funding. A significant portion of it was repayment of debt. So loss funding was extremely minimal as far as the INR 75 crore number of previous years concerned. While we stand today, assuming that VEPL happens in, let's say, Q3, right, end Q2, Q3, we still believe we might have to do a funding of INR 60 crore-INR 70 crore in the current year, primarily to repay debt. Because debt on the other two assets, BBEPL, the entire debt is to be repaid in the next two years, right? And after that, we still have three years left for BBEPL recovery. Even on WEPL, there's a debt repayment which is due in the current year. So worst case, it would be INR 60 crore-INR 70 crore. But if VEPL money comes in Q3, this number would reduce significantly.
Okay, sir. Thank you. Those are my questions.
Thank you.
Next question comes from the line of Uttam Kumar Srimal with Axis Securities Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah, sir. Very good morning and thanks for the opportunity. Sir, my question pertains to on a consolidated level last year on non-TND, we have grown only by 3%. While TND has grown by 27%. So how do you see non-TND business growing this year on a consolidated level?
So if you look at the non-TND business, right, B&F business still grew at a healthy double digit, 20% plus, and I expect that to continue. So when I look at guidance in terms of growth for next year, we expect TL to do 20% plus. We expect B&F to be in the range of 18%-20%. We expect water to do 10% plus, as I said earlier.
Oil and gas will still continue to grow at 100% plus given that large Saudi Aramco order. Urban infrastructure should be in a good 40%-50% basis plus because of that lower revenue target which they have. Railways is the only business where we do not expect growth, and that should be going down from the current levels, maybe 10% lower than this. So majority business, except railway, you'll see growth ranging from 10% to as high as 100% in the oil and gas business.
Okay, sir. And sir, any progress on data center business?
We are currently working on one project. We are hopeful of winning at least one more project in this quarter itself. And while we speak, we are focused on bidding for two or three large projects in data center, which could materialize in Q2 or Q3.
Sir, what is the quantum of these projects?
So this number being confidential because we have not yet signed that, but all in the range of, let's say, INR 300-700 crores kind of range. As far as I understand.
And the margin in these businesses are higher than the traditional businesses that were doing or a bit similar to that?
So margins on data center are typically similar to our B&F projects, but the ROS is much higher because data center projects do not require so much capex. So from a ROS perspective, they are very good, but from a margin perspective, they are similar range of, let's say, B&F or 8%-10% or 9%-11% at an EBITDA level.
Okay. And sir, in the quarter four, our finance cost has reduced substantially. So this should be the run rate going forward?
I think Q4 is always a good quarter when it comes to collections from clients. And that's why our finance cost, not now, but last 10 years you look at it, you'll see that it's the lowest in Q4. Also, current year, Q4 had a positive impact of the QIP funds which we collected of approximately INR 980 crores. So that QIP funds, yes, that improvement is permanent in nature. Otherwise, when you're on a Q1, Q basis, Q1, Q2, Q3, interest will always be much higher than Q4. And Q4 is with balances because collections are always higher in Q4. So you'll see Q1, Q2 debt as well as interest cost going up. That's the nature of our business.
Okay, sir. That's all from my side, and wish you all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. Next question comes from the line of Mahesh Patil with ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi sir. Sir, my question is on the order book. So out of the total order book, can you please guide us in terms of how much of the order book is fixed price contracts? So just wanted to understand in terms of any cost escalations, how will this be absorbed?
Sure. So if you look at today in terms of order book where we are, our fixed price order book is around one third, around 33-34%, and variable is around 67%. Significant portion of the variable order book is more in that building and factories business where the entire order book is variable in nature.
When you look at T&D, it is a lot more fixed, but B&F is variable in nature, and some of the railways business is variable in nature. But today, 67% is variable and 33% is fixed in nature, approximately.
Okay, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. Next question comes from the line of Bhoomika Nair with DAM Capital. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. You spoke about T&D activity being fairly strong. How do we see that kind of on such a high base kind of panning out for the next couple of years? Do we think that domestic T&D intake can jump up significantly? And also, if you can talk about the competitive intensity?
While it has been quite decent so far, you've not really seen much of intensity kind of going up, but are you seeing any change now?
So Bhoomika, in the T&D business, first, let me answer competitive intensity. You still have five, six large players who are competitive enough, and they've been in business for a long time. But the competition is a lot more sensible than what we had seen, let's say, five years, seven years, or even three years ago. As far as growth is concerned, the T&D business requires three critical segments. One is your factory production capacity, which for us is significantly high, and we are further ramping up. We are adding further capacity of closer to 50,000 tons at the factories in the current year through investments in CNC machines and galvanizing facilities.
Second is requirement of a good team, which we already have, which we built over the period of time. Third is availability of bought-out items in the time of conductors, insulators, hardware, which we do not see any issues except for some issues in high-end transformers, which are typically supplied by clients, and fourth is labor availability. I think to us, the biggest challenge in terms of growth would be the point number four because that's an area where you have to be cautious because T&D, unlike any other segment, is very, very skilled resources, right? Whether it is erection, whether it is stringing, all of that. It's not easy to ramp that up at a level of the way you could ramp up any other business order book, so to answer your question, we are very optimistic.
We assume that a growth of 20% plus in terms of order book and T&D would be easy. We assume that we were confident that margins will go up, but our biggest challenge will continue to be labor availability. And that's why we want to be more realistic rather than just running for order book where you start failing on delivery.
Sure, sir. This was helpful. So similarly on B&F, if I look at it in the last couple of years, the scale of the business or intake has really gone up materially. We used to be sub 4,000 crores of annual intake, and if we see 25 has been a very strong performance. And we've seen that order intake going up to about 8,000 crore plus with backlog also jumping up quite a bit.
While obviously the visibility for the next two, three years is quite high, do you think on this high base, if you can talk a little bit of private CapEx, how are you seeing the ordering activity, etc., out here? And do you think that the order intake can go to a 10,000 crore kind of a number in the next year or two?
So Bhoomika SKT here. So the whole B&F sector on the back of real estate growth across the country is seeing a huge upsurge in all the regions, whether it is the NCR, Mumbai, South, right?
As we see the traction currently, so if you look at the last couple of years, two years or so, a lot of projects have been launched by the developers, and there is a good demand across the country on the real estate side in all the segments, whether it is a lower segment, middle segment, and the very high value segments of the real estate. That whole thing is driving the sector. To answer your question for next two years, we still see current momentum may not hold, but what we have seen in the last two years, there may be some slowdown, but because all the projects which have been launched, they have to be delivered. Next two and a half years, the developers will be focusing on that.
But still, we can see the 80%-85% of current traction to continue over next two years. And that will further broaden the base for us to ramp up the order booking as well as the growth.
Just to add to what SKT listed, Bhoomika, we are also seeing good traction coming on the industrial side, whether industrial coming from the central PSUs, whether it's industrial coming from specific segments and ferrous and non-ferrous, whether it's industrial coming in OEM. So that's also an area where we believe that opportunity could be very good as we have built this significantly over the last three to four years. So on an overall perspective, just adding to what SKT said, this business looks good from all perspectives, and we have an additional advantage of working on projects in B&F, at least where RERA is there.
So at least we do not have that risk of fund issues or credit risk issues in any form.
Sure. Sir, on the 14,000 crore order book that we have roughly for this segment, how would it be split between real estate and, say, factories?
So Bhoomika, about 1,500 or so will be the industrial, and the major portion, 12,500, still remains the. So I'll just try it. Airports is 1,000. Yeah.
Airports is 1,000, 1,500 is industry, and the balance would be residential and commercial.
Yeah.
Understood. Understood. Great, sir. This helps. I'll come back in the question queue. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Samarth Khandelwal with ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Hello. Am I audible?
Yeah, very much.
Yeah.
Sir, I wanted to understand, is there a difference between HVDC T&D orders versus normal T&D orders in terms of margin profile and execution timing?
So Samarth, in terms of margin profile, I think overall T&D domestic would be in a similar margin profile. There's not much big difference in terms of HVDC versus others. In terms of competitive spirit, yes, HVDC, we still find some less competition. Not everyone qualifies in HVDC substation projects. In terms of delivery, yes, HVDC projects typically are slightly longer in delivery on substation because of the long lead items on procurement. As far as transmission is concerned, HVDC is similar 36-42 months, which is similar to some of our normal projects. But profitability is similar across the board.
Thank you. That is all from my side.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Mihir Manohar with Carnelian Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hey, thanks for giving the follow-up. Sir, you mentioned about the C210 large-sized projects, how it grows plus ticket sizes, which you have won over the last two and a half years. Just to get a sense, how would the margins and working capital efficiency, working capital from these projects? I understand that margins would be better because that is where you are guiding to better margins and effectiveness. For the working capital, how to understand these large-sized projects?
So Mihir, when you look at large-sized projects, typically margin percentages do not vary significantly. Okay. Because margin percentages, they are all mature markets. You can't expect that you'll be having a very different margin profile, maybe 25 basis points here or there. What is different is your ROS numbers, right?
Because on large projects in terms of you have a reasonably good advance, you have CapEx which gets out of your advance, and your return ratios are much better than doing three smaller projects at a given point of time. What is better is your capability to deliver on or before time because we're very much focused on doing one project at a given point of time with a much better team. So to answer your question, the capability requirements are very different, which only a few players in this country, maybe less than five players in the country, would have on various segments. The balance sheet requirement in terms of CapEx is very high, which is where we have a big advantage.
The margin profiles are slightly better, but I wouldn't say significantly better, but the ROS numbers are much better on such large projects because the advances, everything else is very good.
Sure. Understood. So again, we speak blended working capital days of 90, 95 days. What would be the working capital days on these large-sized projects?
No, as I said earlier, it would be similar in nature. Maybe it would be 85 in some, maybe 90, but typically international large-sized projects, working capitals tend to be more in the range of 50 to 60 days. The domestic projects all tend to be in the similar range of 85 to 100 days, depending on project to project.
Okay. Understood. Sure. Second question was on these subsidiaries. I mean, when we see FY24, the parent minus sorry, consolidated minus parent is 17 crore gross loss.
FY25, consolidated minus parent is INR 81 crore gross loss. If you can reconsider this INR 81 crore, how is this split? What is the P&L numbers for LMG, Fasttel, Saudi Asset, Road Asset, and Real Estate across these five companies for FY24 and 25?
Sure. So when you look at losses coming in significantly, the significant loss which came in from Brazil, which includes Fasttel and our local subsidiaries there, which is closer to INR 50 crores in the current year. There's a loss on IGB's Omega Saudi, which is what I said, some old Saudi projects which are all at a closure stage, which is closer to 50-odd crores. And there's a loss coming on some of the other entities, which is around 20-25 crores, which includes Senegal, Chile, some of them.
On the gain side, the significant gain which comes in from KPTL Sweden, which is around 65 crores. So that's how the tally on the road SPVs has a loss of around 20 crores at a PBT level. But significant, as I said earlier, significant percentage of the losses, whether it is Brazil, whether it is Saudi, whether it is Indore, all of that would no longer continue getting into 25, 26, and that's why we're guiding for much higher numbers on consolidated getting into 25, 26.
Sure. Just one last question on this consolidated. I mean, we have gotten 400 basis points of improvement of the consolidated margins. So this improvement would largely come from which part of the pieces of the subsidiary? And what sort of conservatism has been adopted while deciding?
So Mihir, you see improvement on all fronts, as I said earlier. Saichal and we'll be exiting fully Indore, so that will be a positive. Road SPVs, we are exiting one of them in Q2, Q3, so that would be a positive. Kalpataru Brazil, while still would be negative, but it would not be as high a negative what we have seen. Saudi, IGB, Omega would get into a positive zone because those projects are nearly completed. So it will be positive across the board. The only negative which would continue would be maybe Fasttel to a certain extent, but to a much lower extent. Everything else should be positive getting into next year.
Sure. That's it from my side. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Mihir.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Mehul Mehta with Choice Equity Broking. Please go ahead.
Good morning, team.
Thanks for the opportunity and congrats on a great set of numbers. My question is with relation to tax rate. For this year, FY25, it has been 31% as compared to 26%. What explains this?
So Mihir, let me just start with, and I'll ask Ram to add two or three aspects. One, a lot of our international projects have higher tax rates. Some of them have higher more than 30%, so that is one area where because the majority of our projects are at a branch level and not through subsidiary. So that's where the tax rates are high. Second, on some projects where we have had losses, we have not necessarily created deferred tax assets. And that's helped us because we realistically believe that creating that asset just for the balance sheet purpose makes no sense.
So that's where some of those projects where we have had losses, we've not taken the benefit of any deferred tax assets. So that's the second area. And I'll ask Ram to add anything else which I might have missed out, Ram.
The third area is that earlier we had a deferred tax asset in respect of capital gains. So that deferred tax assets rate has gone down. So there's an impact of our 11 plus crores because of the tax rate difference.
Yeah. I think that capital gains earlier, it was 20%, is now 12.5%. 22% is 12.5%. So that is also some deferred tax asset was there which reduced the value. Yeah. Thanks, Ram. That was it.
But on a holistic basis, we still believe that our tax rates, even for the current year, would still continue to be in the range of 28% plus. We would not be at 25, 26. It would be 28, 29 itself because given that international orders are at higher tax rates.
Sure. Thanks for the explanation. I'm done.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Mohit Kumar with ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Hello.
Yeah, Mohit?
Just a one-liner question, sir. On the consol minus standalone, is it most of the losses in the subsidiaries has been put in the Q4? Is it right? I see the difference is consol minus standalone is skewed in the Q4, while Q1, Q2, Q3 has a much lesser difference.
So to be specific, there are a couple of large losses which have come in Q4 driven by business.
One, we have seen Saicharan Properties, which is Indore, where we have sold off the entire amount in Q4. You've seen some traction on that. Second, Kalpataru Brazil, typically Q4 is where you see the highest revenue, so you see that cost increments accordingly. So this too, yes. Otherwise, else it's been uniformly distributed. As far as others are concerned, it's not been so bad in Q4, but only in Brazil and Saicharan and we have seen slightly higher numbers coming in Q4. And Saicharan was logical because we sold off our entire left-out portfolio in terms of flat set Indore. Flat and commercial at Indore.
Understood. Thank you. That's very helpful. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Ishan Verma with InCred Research. Please go ahead.
Hi sir. Congratulations on the good set of numbers.
I just wanted to know what is our L1 order book position as of now?
Our L1 order book today should be in the range of what we have declared around 2,300 crores in the last week or so. Now our L1 order should be in the range of 2,000 plus crores.
2,000 plus crores. And also on the oil and gas segment specifically, there is no order inflow in this year, but we expect some orders to come in FY26. So what leads to this optimism?
In the previous year, we consciously did not take orders in the oil and gas business because just before that, we had taken a huge order on Saudi Aramco. Our focus in the previous year was primarily in making sure that we ramp up execution, build a further strong team, and do Capex and all of that.
Now that we have ramped it up and we have seen delivery happening at very good levels as far as these projects are concerned, we believe that in the Middle East, whether it is Aramco, whether it is Abu Dhabi, whether it is Qatar or Oman, any of that, where we are all qualified, there could be good traction. So previous year was a conscious call, given that there was a huge order book. Getting into the current year, we started bidding again. And given that there are only a few large players from India working in that segment of the world, we believe that there's a good probability we should get some good orders in the current year. While we say so, on the domestic oil and gas front, we are not so bullish. Our bullishness is more on the international oil and gas front.
Okay. Okay. Makes sense.
So one thing more. On the Capex side, you are targeting 50,000-ton capacity expansion, right? So what kind of Capex would go into that, and what the Capex will be doing, what other segments will it be put in?
Yeah. So we're looking at expansion of close to 50,000 tons per annum, which is around 4,000 tons per month. I don't see huge Capex. Maybe in the range of INR 20-INR 25 crores should be enough as far as Capex is concerned for the plant expansion. We've already done some Capex in Q4. So in totality, it will be 30-35 crores, out of which 10 crores we have done and 20-odd crores further in the next 6 to 12 months.
What is our current capacity for T&D?
So our capacity is more than around 2.5 lakh tons, is what we are aiming for the current year.
Right now, we are at around 210-220,000 out of our both plants, Raipur and Gandhinagar put together.
Okay. Got it. And one thing more. We see that the cost of sales for the quarter four has significantly gone up, wherein it used to be in the range of 75% of sales. Similar for the consolidated as well as for the standalone level, maybe leading to increase in subcontracting or labor costs. Could you just give some insight on that?
I think it's just the mix of projects more than anything else, right? It's just the mix of projects which drives that. So for example, if the Saudi Aramco project has done significant Q4, there everything is into subcontracting and there's no bottom there.
So it's only a mix of projects more than anything else, and it would be good to look at it on an annualized basis instead of looking at it on a quarterly basis. Okay.
Thank you. That's all from my side.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, we have reached the end of question and answer session. I would now like to hand the conference over to Ms. Bhoomika Nair for closing comments.
Yeah. I would like to thank all the participants for being on the call, and particularly the management for giving us an opportunity to host the call. Thank you very much, sir, and wish you all the very best. Any closing remarks from your end?
I think thank you very much for being on the call. We hope that we can deliver better results getting into the current year. Thank you very much.
Thank you. On behalf of DAM Capital, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect today.