Ladies and gentlemen, a very warm Welcome to the Q1 FY 2025 Results Conference Call of Krsnaa Diagnostics Limited. Before we begin, I would like to remind all participants that today's call may contain statements that are forward-looking statements, including, but without limitation, statements relating to implementation of strategic initiatives and other statements relating to Krsnaa Diagnostics' future business developments and economic performance. While these forward-looking statements indicate our assessment and future expectations concerning the development of our business, a number of risks, uncertainties, and other unknown factors could cause actual developments and results to differ materially from expectations. As a reminder, all the participants' lines will be in listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone.
Please note that this conference is being recorded. I will now hand the conference over to Mr. Chintan Shah from JM Financial. Thank you, and over to you.
Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Q1 FY 2025 results conference call of Krsnaa Diagnostics Limited. Joining us today on the call are Mr. Rajendra Mutha, Chairman and Whole Time Director; Mr. Yash Mutha, Joint Managing Director; Ms. Pallavi Bhatevara, Executive Director; Mr. Mitesh Dave, Group Chief Executive Officer; Mr. Pawan Daga, Chief Financial Officer; Mr. Vivek Jain, Head, Investor Relations. I would like to now hand over the call to Mr. Yash Mutha for his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, Yash.
Thanks, Chintan. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for being part of our Q1 FY2025 conference call. It gives us immense pleasure to share our progress. Our vision of Let's Be Good continuously guides us to expand our reach to the underserved and unserved regions across the country and offer quality diagnostic services to the masses. Leveraging our strong foothold in the PPP space, we are scaling up our operations in the retail space as well, adopting new age technologies and accelerating our growth prospects with the agility and a future-focused approach. The recent budget showcased the Indian government's efforts to encourage the growth of the economy through capital spending in FY 2025. Accordingly, the Government of India is making the required changes in economic policies and programs that are expected to contribute to the holistic development of every economic sector.
In the allocation for 2025, the budget for the National Health Mission, NHM, stands at INR 38,000 crores, a notable increase from the revised allocation of INR 33,886 crores in 2023-2024. India's healthcare sector has become one of the largest industries in the country, owing to factors such as population growth, economic upsurge, and increased income among the middle class. The healthcare industry has evolved significantly in the past decade to meet the growing demand for services and products by the government as well as the citizens. With a market size of approximately $13 billion in 2023, the diagnostic industry is USD globally by FY 2028, with a CAGR of around 2% over the next five years. The radiology market is a... for services and other services market also see increased demand for people undergoing ...
As far as expanding its reach by strategically opening new centers in underpenetrated markets across Tier Two and Tier Three cities. This aim is to ensure that individuals in remote areas can benefit from advanced diagnostic services, thereby ensuring access to high-quality healthcare beyond metropolitan areas. Adherence to the highest quality standards, certified testing reagents, and employing qualified radiologists and pathologists ensures unparalleled accuracy and precision in diagnostic services. We are leveraging our presence in more than 150+ districts to map ambitious growth plans for improving our penetration across the nation. With a focus on making a positive impact on people's lives, we aim to address the underpenetrated healthcare market. Our approach to adapt, innovate, and excel positions us at the threshold of infinite possibilities. An update on the Rajasthan tender.
As a company, we have fulfilled all our obligations required for the tender and are awaiting the judiciary to take the due course. We would like to ensure that Krsnaa is on track to maintain its growth and trajectory even without the Rajasthan tender. We are present in 17 states, and Krsnaa, as a company, is not dependent on any single state or any single business segment or tender of the diagnostic business, which makes us dependable to take on any challenges faced in the sector or any particular state without much affecting the overall business of the company. Regarding some recent developments, Dr. Prashant Deshmukh, the CEO, has decided to leave due to personal reasons. Dr.
Prashant, who had served us as our CEO, has decided to step down due to his personal reasons, and we respect his decision to step down and thank him for his contributions during his tenure. We remain committed to delivering value to our shareholders and stakeholders. Our strategic initiatives are designed to ensure sustainable growth and enhance shareholder value. We are confident in our leadership team and our strategic plans, and we are excited about the future and the opportunities that lie ahead. Our focus on the retail expansion, geographic penetration, and technological advancements will continue to drive our growth. Some recent developments at Krsnaa. Today, Krsnaa is operationalizing 21 CT scan centers in the state of Maharashtra, with the remaining 18 soon to be operationalized. Additionally, plans are underway to install 7 more CT machines this year.
An order for Maharashtra for 70 new MRIs and operation of 70 existing CT machines has already been signed, and we have plans to install five MRIs by this year end. Furthermore, a radiology contract, a radiology contract for tele-reporting from BARC has been secured, enabling BARC to provide around-the-clock services with superior quality and timeliness. An agreement to provide five MRIs at the five locations in Madhya Pradesh has been signed, out of which two centers are expected to be operational by the year end, and the remaining would be as and when the government provides us with all the necessary infrastructure for the same. The revenue is projected to start from FY 2026.
In addition, the Assam project, which was established in Q3 FY 2024, where we aim to set up 10 laboratories and 1,256 collection centers, out of which around 400 collection centers are operational and showing a positive traction. The Orissa project, established in Q2 FY 2024, is also showing promising traction as well as acceptance. Over the last three months, 20 new CT scan centers and 375 pathology collection centers have been successfully established, and efforts are being made to stabilize the operations to ensure that the centers start generating revenue commensurate with the expenses, showing a positive trajectory in this regard. As part of our strategy to enter into the retail space in the diagnostic industry, we have established 40 labs in leased premises.
These labs are expected to increase revenues from the public-private partnership, as well as generate additional revenues from the business-to-consumer, as well as the business-to-business customer segments. This will allow us to leverage the existing infrastructures which we have created beyond the duration of existing long, long-term PPP contracts. Furthermore, these labs will help us expand our network of collection centers, franchisees, et cetera. Additionally, to lead our retail expansion efforts, Mr. Mitesh Dave, who has recently joined us as the Group Chief Executive Officer. I would like to now hand over, Mr. Mitesh, the call to provide his insights on our retail strategy. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Yash. A very good morning to everyone, and it's my pleasure to interact with you all as the Group CEO of Krsnaa Diagnostics Limited. Let me start with a brief introduction about myself. With over 20+ years of experience in diversified business segments, from FMCG to OTC to pharma, followed by diagnostic and other healthcare spaces, I really have witnessed the significant changes which has happened in diagnostic space in a decade, in the past decade, and also have successfully delivered results in my past stints as well. My diversified experience helps me to get into and to understand more robust infrastructure that Krsnaa carries. When I looked at Krsnaa Diagnostic, a vast and state-of-the-art centers spanning across length and breadth of India and reaching even the most remotest corner, I see an extra-extraordinary opportunity to build a substantial retail business.
This unparalleled reach uniquely positions Krsnaa to penetrate underserved markets and deliver from acute to critical diagnostic services, and where they are needed the most. The potential to leverage this expansive, most expansive infrastructure to create a formidable retail presence was a key factor in my reason to join Krsnaa. After spending over thirty years in different corporates, and now a month with the Krsnaa, I am genuinely impressed by the management's vision, their flexibility for the new ideas, their unwavering passion for sustainable growth. And our collective vision is to revolutionize healthcare accessibility across India and driving significant growth and delivering exceptional value to our investors. Together, we are poised to embark on transformative journey that promises remarkable financial returns and profound societal impact....
India's diagnostic landscape is evolving very rapidly due to the increasing prevalence of the non-communicable and infectious diseases, driving the demand for evidence-based treatment and preventive healthcare solutions. Since its inception, Krsnaa Diagnostics Limited has focused on the PPP model and established itself a trusted and affordable service provider with a strong brand presence among the masses. We have served millions of patients, positioning ourselves as a leader in diagnostic services. We are investing in efficient technology-enabled network to accommodate the growing volumes of samples and enhance patient accessibility and experience. Our focus remains on prioritizing our pan-Indian network to meet evolving consumer preferences and expand our market share in the states where we are present. Geographical expansion, portfolio diversification, and digital transformations are our strategic priorities to drive significant progress.
Leveraging our core strengths in diagnostic services, we are prioritizing network synergies and manpower to meet the growing quality, qualitative consumer needs. We are focused on enhancing end-to-end retail capabilities from digital space to offline channel, to serving patients at home at their comfort, and to capitalize on wellness space as the increasing demand for regular checkups, as people becoming more health conscious. This will help us grow in regions where we are already present and have lab facilities set up through the PPP contracts. Diversifying into the retail will improve margins and lead to a better working capital cycle. We will leverage e-commerce to enhance our market presence and digitalize our operations efficiently. A new user-friendly website will be launched soon to enhance our user experience.
We have ambitious plans to unlock growth opportunities, make a positive impact on people's lives, and contribute to the advancement of the healthcare industry. With that now, I would like to request or invite Mr. Pawan Daga, who is our CFO, to update you all on the current financial numbers. Over to Pawan. Thanks.
Thank you, Mr. Mitesh. Good morning, everyone. I will now present the financial highlights for the quarter ending June 2024. In the first quarter of FY 2025, our total revenue from operations experienced a notable upsurge, reaching INR 170 crores, making an impressive 22% year-on-year growth. Shifting our focus to operational performance, our Q1 FY 2025 EBITDA reaches to INR 44 crore, signifying a commendable 39% year-on-year growth. We maintain a healthy margin of 26%. Additionally, our net profit amounted to INR 18 crore with a corresponding margin of 11%.
The PAT for Q4 FY 2024, after adjusting the depreciation benefit of INR 3.97 crore due to change in accounting estimate for the entire last year, which was accounted in Q4 FY 2024, would have been INR 15.8 crore, resulting in a PAT growing by 14% in Q1 FY 2025 when compared to Q4 FY 2024, demonstrating a healthy growth. Taking a closer look at our balance sheet, we currently hold a gross debt of INR 170 crore, while maintaining a cash and cash equivalent worth INR 240 crore as of June 30, 2024. It is worth noting that our company continues to uphold a net debt-free status and noteworthy accomplishment. We can now open the floor for the question and answer session. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question- and- answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to remind that in order to ensure the management is able to address questions from all the participants, please limit your questions to two per participant. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Balam urali Krsnaa from Oman Investment Advisors. Please go ahead.
Hi, good morning. So in this recent presentation, I have seen that, the Odisha, I think we are going to implement some of 600 collection centers. I think the project was already completed. So how this came and any update on that one?
Yeah. So the Odisha collection center that you see in the presentation, these are the additional PHC or primary health centers that we have to further set up in terms of our tender, and that is where the current expansion is going on.
... Okay. Any update on the Rajasthan tender?
So like we discussed on the Rajasthan tender, you know, we have done all that is necessary as a company to fulfill our obligations. Even when there was an appeal by the government to recall the application, that was also, you know, taken by the High Court, and it was decided in our favor, and currently we are waiting for the High Court to take the next steps. But as we mentioned, Krsnaa continues to grow, with or without Rajasthan, and our growth momentum is as what we have been discussing.
Okay, perfect. So lastly, on this Maharashtra 17, 15, 70 MRI, I think this is, the assets will be on the government side, so this will be asset light contract perspective. So can we expect, how the margins, in such kind of contracts?
Yeah. So basically there are two models within the Maharashtra tender. One is both on the installation of the equipment and where we will be operating the government equipment. So considering radiology as a business vertical and with this kind of combination, of course, the margins will be better, and that is what we expect, you know, which will help us continue on the growth momentum for the margins as well as the revenues in the upcoming quarters.
Okay. In the past few orders wins or tender wins, we're not mentioning the duration of the contract. So is it possible to provide the details like Odisha and Assam and which Maharashtra tender and MP tender? So, contract period, we're not mentioning if it is not possible to publish it. Could you please share the details?
No. So Maharashtra is about around, about 15 years, Odisha is about, 12 years, and Assam is about five years. I'm sure the details will be there, but, you know, this is the current, state of the tenure of these, these contracts. So it gives us a long-term, visibility of revenues to come.
Okay. Madhya Pradesh, recent one, five, five MRI, five MRI.
Madhya Pradesh is about 8 + 2, which is about 12 years.
Okay. Any update on the pipeline tenders, so we're expecting something from Andhra Pradesh and some of the southern regions? Have you participated any further new tenders other than these pipeline tenders?
So, currently it's working for that, and we'll hopefully be able to announce very soon.
Okay, that's all. Thanks a lot. All the best.
Thank you.
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Aditya Khemka from InCred PMS. Please go ahead.
Hi, thank you for the opportunity. Yash, I am referring to slide 3 of the presentation deck, where you have split the EBITDA into existing centers and new centers, revenue and EBITDA split here as I've given. I have a few questions around this split. Number one, how much of our... How many of our centers are classified under existing centers, and how many of our centers are new? And in the same breath, what is the tenure that you consider to call a center existing, and what is the tenure for a new center?
Yeah, Aditya, so, the specifics of these, you know, we can provide in offline. But just to give you, from a background perspective, basically from a PPP project, you know, there are different timelines of how the projects achieve maturity. So, if you see most of the projects should be in the range of 3-5 years, will be in the more mature centers, and between 0-3 years are in the new centers.
Okay. Okay, understood. And, secondly, you know, I, I've been noticing that our new center margins are improving. However, they are still only at 12% compared to mature centers at 38%. Is that a result of the fact that most of our mature centers tend to be more radiology and most of our new centers are more pathology? Or is there room for the improvement of the 12% margin to go to anywhere close to 38%?
Yeah, I think you partially said correct. So the reason why some of these new centers are at lower margin is, of course, you know, having a higher pathology share of these centers. Having said that, you know, as we've been saying earlier as well, the margins continue to grow, and which will be almost comparable to the margins that you're seeing. Maybe slightly lower and compared to radiology, pathology has a lower margin profile, but it won't be significantly lower. And as we've been mentioning, and as the centers are ramping up, we'll see this margin profile also improving quarter-on-quarter.
Also, Aditya, the, like, the last couple of years only, we have plugged in around our pathology big projects, state like Himachal, Punjab, Assam and Odisha, and the BMC one. So the major shares of the pathology has been started in last couple of years.
Right. Right. So most of the pathology business, in fact, all of your pathology business therefore is under new centers, right?
Correct, correct.
Your existing centers would be a majority. Then in that case, you know, as I understand the businesses, pathology, although, you know, seems to be a high, a lower margin business, tends to be a higher ROC business. Correct me if I'm wrong. And radiology seems to be a lower margin, lower ROC business, but a higher margin business. So could you guys provide a split of your ROCs between the existing and new? Or is that possible at your end?
I think that we can, yes, we could do.
Sorry, your voice got broke. I couldn't hear the response. Sorry.
... Yeah, yeah. So I said, we'll provide the details of them, and we'll ask Vivek, our Head of Investor Relations, to share that with you.
Perfect. One last question. So on the Rajasthan thing, I understand there is a delay in procedural delays in the court decision. But for the last two, three calls, I've been slightly confused on how the CapEx would, you know, work out if we win the Rajasthan project. Do you guys have any further clarity on what we last discussed on concalls as to how the CapEx of Rajasthan would be funded, or is that still something you guys will work out once you get the project?
No, as we mentioned in the past as well, we already have certain commitments from the OEM manufacturers in terms of vendor financing, where they are ready to provide the equipment on a pay-per-use kind of a model. So those commitments are still valid. You know, as we said, once we get the final confirmation, it will help us negotiate better, and then we'll be able to see how. But as of now, we have the commitments to which we can immediately go and, you know, deploy the assets with very limited cash outflow from the company's reserves.
Right. Sorry, I had one more question. On the B2C business, is our pricing different from our B2G business for the same lab from where we might be sourcing the results of the B2C clients as well? Because we are using the same equipment, if I understand correctly. Or is the pricing slightly different for the B2C customer versus the B2G customer?
Mitesh is here. Probably he'll answer that question.
Yeah. Hi, good morning.
Good morning, Mitesh.
Hello, Mitesh.
Thanks. Thanks a lot. So considering the B2G versus the B2C or the retail strategy around the pricing, there are going to be a differentiated pricing, but it would still be in line with our overall, hypothesis through which we build up this entire Krsnaa Diagnostics Limited, which would be more affordable, accessible, assured regarding to the quality spaces.
Right. And Mitesh, for you, what is the end game for the B2C business? I mean, we have seen the Dr. Lal, the Metropolises, the SRS of the world, grow at a, you know, a dramatic pace over the past two decades. Krsnaa obviously historically doesn't have the retail mindset. They have the B2G mindset. So as the CEO here, when you look at the B2C piece, obviously currently the size is negligible. But as you ramp it up, as you grow it, what are the key performance indicators for you? Where is it that the company needs to focus to deliver on the B2C side?
Yeah. So multiple pieces I would like to answer very straight and simple and keeping the answer simple for now. Looking to the overall state of our infrastructure that Krsnaa currently carries across the length and breadth of India, the overall quality parameters and the CAP or the NABL accreditation that Krsnaa, Krsnaa enjoys, and the overall reach that we have to the Tier Three, Tier Four town, it forms up the formidable retail opportunity to cater on. It's too early to benchmarking or looking up to something, a number two share, but yes, if I look at the overall size around the addressable market size, it is close to INR 40,000+ crore in the areas where we are currently present. So that makes it a huge playground to play around, and that we're going to capitalize.
Understood, Mitesh. Welcome to the team and all the best for the future. Thanks, guys, for taking my questions.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Lokesh Maru from Vallum Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Good morning to the team. Just a couple of questions from my end. One is the break-up of revenue from pathology and radiology. What would that number be? If you could share that, please.
Could you repeat the question, please? You're not very clear.
Yeah, my question was more bookkeeping. It was for breakup of revenue between radiology and pathology for this quarter.
Yeah, Param, that's right. So our radiology contribution is 55% and pathology, 45%.
Okay. The tele-reporting would be what percentage of the overall revenue?
Tele-reporting will be in the range of 8% of overall revenue.
Okay. Okay. That's it from my side.
números are-
Sure.
Yeah, and these numbers keep changing quarter-over-quarter because of this seasonal impact and the projects we implement and how the projects ramp up.
No, that's fair enough, but 55, 45 is a good range, should I take for this quarter, to take for this quarter?
Yeah, 55 radio, 45 pathology is a good range to take for this number. That's correct?
Yes.
Okay. Okay. That's it from my end. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pranay Khandelwal from Alpha Invesco. Please go ahead.
Hi. Yes, I had a bookkeeping question as well. Can you give me the absolute receivables number for Q1 at many sites and also the receivables base?
Again, you, sorry, I cannot hear you very clear.
Hello, am I audible now?
Yeah, yeah, now you're audible.
Yeah. So I wanted to know the absolute receivables number for the quarter and the receivables days?
Yeah, Param, yeah. So, our receivable days for the quarter, which are in the range of 100 days, and which is somewhere in the range of, in absolute terms, INR 190 crore. So, we have seen the good recovery from post-election period, which we have mentioned in the last quarter. So post-election, everyone, officers are resumed to their regular workforce, and now we started receiving the collection. So we have seen the significant collections happen in the July month or June month.
Okay. So on, on Himachal Pradesh side, things are looking better. There, that was the major, receivable ticket, right?
Yeah. So Himachal, we already received INR 38-INR 40 crores by July end, and we see the further receivable will be received in couple of weeks or maybe in a month kind of period.
So, they were received in July end, so that means that by that will reflect in the number in the quarter two, right? This INR 190 crores of current receivables already also includes the INR 190 crore number is as of for Q1, right?
Yeah, yeah. Correct.
Okay. So INR 40 crore has already been received from that as well?
Yes, yes. So, why it is in July? Because, the post-election result and other thing, everything is stabilized by June, and everything is operationalized in a regular manner. So we started collection by June end itself, but, majorly it's reflected or started, reflecting to, July, mid, kind of.
Okay. And, also can you guide on the CapEx for this year? How much has been done in quarter one, and what are we looking at for the rest of the year?
So, we are planning to spend INR 170 crore for this year. So, approximately INR 22 crore has already spent in the Q1. So we have lined up for other radiology projects of Maharashtra and Madhya Pradesh and some cities scan of Maharashtra, which has to be deployed in this quarter. So these are the updates so far.
Okay. And, are we still on track for the 30% growth guidance that you have given or the, yeah?
Yeah. So, you know, as this is Yash. In terms of growth guidance, we are committed to achieving, you know, 25% base growth margin, and aspirationally to reach around 30%. But, we're considering, 25% as a comfortable range that we should be able to achieve by end of this year.
Okay. So 25 is the goal, 30 is aspiration. Okay, all right. That'll be all. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Bharat from Equirus. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thanks for the opportunity. So just want to get a sense on the new infrastructure which we are building back for the retail franchise. So,
Bharat, Bharat, Bharat, your voice is very low, Bharat.
Hello, is it better?
Slightly better.
All right. Yeah. So I was asking you, in your opening remarks, you mentioned that you will be opening up new stores, new centers or new laboratories for the franchise or for the retail franchise?
No, no, no. We will not be setting up new franchises. We will be leveraging the existing lab networks, or, you know, the radiology centers we have. And through that only we will be able to increase the presence in the retail side.
Got you. And when we are saying that there will be a differential pricing for the retail, so, will it be, is there a possibility that government may at some point, they will, they will look at it a, in a different way, having two different sort of pricing for the, two different, sort of businesses? Can we build a different between customer and a government patient? That's the question.
Yeah. So basically, Bharat, from a PPP tender perspective, there is no restrictions on, you know, receiving or processing private patients. In many of our centers, we still have private patients. Considering that the retail expansion plan that we're doing, where we are integrating or leveraging the infrastructure, again, that will be through a different legal entity. So per se, there are no restrictions or limitations in us charging higher or differential rates, considering that there'll be a also a differentiated experience that the customers will get.
Sure. That's okay. Thanks a lot.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Saloni Babisi from Val-Q Investment Advisory. Please go ahead.
Hi, am I audible?
Hello.
It's a bit low. Go ahead.
Voice is muffled.
Okay, just a second. Hello, is it better?
Yeah, yeah. Much better.
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. My first question is on the bifurcation that you have given for the revenue and the gap between the new and the old centers. Could you just let me know how much percent of that is from the new one, and how much percent is from the old centers, like the number of centers, first there?
I think, Saloni, this question in terms of the number of centers, we'll be able to provide you offline. We don't have it at the moment with us, but, you know, Pawan and Vivek can provide you the details.
Okay, sure. And the second question is on the fees to the hospital, the line item in our quarterly result. Can you just help me with how do I read that line item? Like, how can I model it and the range as to what it will be in?
... Yeah. So Saloni, here again, on the fees to hospital, as we've been saying in the past as well, this number will reduce. Initially, it is higher for new projects, but then it keeps on reducing. And currently, the level that we are seeing, about 78%, is what we see as stable, you know, percentage of expense as well, when we compare to the revenues. So this trend is what we expect to continue in the upcoming quarters as well.
Okay. Okay, sure. That's it from my side. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question will be from the line of Lalitab from ITI. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hello, sir. Thanks for the opportunity, and congratulations on updates that are on there. First of all, regarding the Rajasthan order that we had, we just wanted to know what is the present situation that we have in terms of, you know, is there any additional provisions or any account treatment that requires to be done for this? Secondly, how do you see-
Hi, hi. Sorry, we can't hear you clearly. Could you please speak closer to the mic?
Yeah, sure, sir. Just a second. Hello, I'm audible now?
Yeah, this is better. Yeah, this is better.
Yeah. So, thanks for the opportunity and congratulations on a great set of results. So just wanted to know, regarding your Rajasthan order, so is there any, you know, accounting treatment or any provision that remains for us to be, you know, taken on our books going forward? And secondly, there were some, you know, additional performance security measures that were required to be provided from us. So how do you see that? Is that a one-off kind of thing, or that is a kind of a trend that we can expect going forward also with other states as well?
Thirdly, sir, if you can just give a roadmap, because you very helpfully shared that the margins from the new centers and the mature centers are, you know, roughly one, 3x and of each other. So if you can just show or share, you know, next six months, what will be the split between your new and matured centers? Maybe six months or one year will be very helpful. Thank you.
Sure. I think there were three questions. On the first question, on the accounting treatment for Rajasthan, I think Pawan will just-
Yeah. So, Pawan this side. So, there is no expenditure incurred in relation to the- Hello, I'm audible?
Yes, sir, you are. The line from the current participant seems to have disconnected, so shall we move to the next question?
Yeah. Yeah, please.
Yeah. The next question is from the line of Anmol Das from Arihant Capital Markets Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good morning, sir. So my first question is regarding the radiology, 168 CT and MRI centers. So just wanted a bookkeeping number of the total number of CT scan machines, MRI machines, and the centers where both of the machines are. And I also want to request if you can give a split of radiology revenue outside of CT and MRI.
Yeah. So, the split of 73, the thing, so the centers, 17 centers where CT and MRI, both will be there. In the 39 center of CT, which only CT will be there, out of that, 31 will be install and operate, or, eight will be only operation. So this is the split between Maharashtra radiology centers.
Okay. No, I was talking about the 168 total radiology centers that you have mentioned. The split between that.
So that we can provide you offline. Will be okay for you?
Okay, sir. Sure. Another thing, sir, regarding clarification. Actually, I want to understand, if I haven't understood the Rajasthan case completely. Is this a part where the case is hanging because of the government asking for more bank guarantee from the company side? Or what is it actually?
Yeah. So, basically, the government is not asking for any additional bank guarantee. Whatever bank guarantees were required to be submitted by the company, the company has already submitted it long back. This is currently, you know, since the government had filed a recall, we filed a, you know, case against them, and the high court has also opened in favor to say that the government should go ahead by executing the agreements. And therefore, a contempt petition has also been filed against the authorities. But this is currently under the judiciary process, and as and when the outcome comes, we'll inform everyone. Per se, to address your question, there's nothing which is pending from the company that needs to be done.
Okay. Trying to understand regarding the case here, so it has been, like, one year by now. So what is the timeline by which the case in the high court will be resolved? Or if that timeline passes away, then this entire tender will be nullified?
See, like everyone, we too are eagerly awaiting that this matter has to be resolved at the earliest. But considering the judicial process, which is something beyond our control, so we can't comment on the timelines while we pray and hope, you know, we get a resolve soon. In terms of the revenue, as I said, we continue to grow, whether Rajasthan is there or not, this is like any other tender for us, and we continue on a growth momentum of 25% that we spoke earlier. This tender, even if, you know, whichever way it goes, it will be over and above what Krsnaa is currently planning and aspiring to do. So really does not affect our business prospects at all.
I understand that this doesn't comes into your, you know, future, whatever your internal projections are, but when we are considering it, the Rajasthan contract, as per my understanding, it's between INR 300-INR 400 crores of revenue potential. And also wanted to know, if you win this tender, like, today, then how long will you take, you know, to operationalize 1,200+ centers in the state?
Sorry, could you repeat the last part?
How, I mean, if you win this tender today, so then, how long will you take, you know, to expand and open the new 290 collection centers in Rajasthan across the state?
Yeah. See, we've been saying this in earlier calls as well, if Rajasthan comes, it will take anywhere between nine months to 12 months for the entire ramping up or scaling up of the centers, because this is across the state. And as and when we, you know, get nearer to the details, we'll provide more updates in terms of the ramp-up plan as well. And in terms of the size, you know, though that the size, you know, Krsnaa has other opportunities also, which we are currently pursuing, which are equally same or even bigger. So as and when, as I mentioned earlier in the call, as and when this happens, we'll be updating everyone about the same.
Sure. Thank you. Thanks for calling.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pallavi Deshpande from Samiksha Capital. Please go ahead.
Yes, so this is regarding the line item fees paid to hospital. So how much revenue do we get from private hospitals? Earlier it was 30% earlier. How much is it now?
Could you please speak a bit louder?
Yeah, this is regarding the fees paid to hospital item. So how much revenues do we get from the private hospitals? It was mentioned earlier on a call, it is 30%. How much is it now?
Yeah, the fees paid to the hospital is a combination of revenue shares that we have with private hospitals, as well as revenue share that we pay to certain of the business partners. It is not just the private hospital. With regards to the actual contribution or the revenue share, I think Pawan will provide the details offline maybe.
Okay. And as to secondly, what is the employment guarantee we give, we've given for the Maharashtra, you know, tender? So I understand we have certain employment guarantees, all of them. So what's the number per center in terms of employees?
No, no, there is no requirement of an employment guarantee per se, but of course, wherever we win any tenders, this helps us generate employment for, you know, people in those regions, in those, towns and cities and villages. But there's no guarantee that we have to give to anyone.
Okay, great. So Laki, when does Punjab and Himachal Pradesh contract come up for renewal?
There is a long duration yet. We just implemented, so, Punjab is almost about 12 years plus, so there's a long time for these tenders to come for renewal.
Right. And, could you just later get back on this, fees paid to the private hospital? I mean, how much is the revenue from the private hospital?
Sure. I think, Pawan, will be providing those details.
Great. Thank you. I'll come back in the queue.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amruta Dehkar from Wealth Managers (India) Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Thank you for this opportunity. Most of my questions have been answered. I'll just ask two more. One is regarding Krsnaa Retail. So, am I right that we are currently focused on pathology labs, like, the pathology services under Krsnaa Retail, and radiology services are yet to be added?
Yeah. Hi, good morning. Mitesh this side. So yes, our ambitious aim for the future is having integrated service on the radiology and pathology both to the entire society or the infrastructure where all we are present. We'll start with the pathology, and gradually we'll move towards the radiology and then the integrated services.
So the 40 labs which are under retail space right now, they are under the PPP contracts?
Correct.
Do we have any private labs?
No, we don't have any standalone private labs per se. These are all labs under different PPP contracts or agreements across the country.
My last question is regarding, like in Rajasthan, we had five operational labs, and as of June, we see that there are five operational labs there. So, so did one contract get over or like, like, what is that Punjab we see from 30, the number has increased to 31, or have we shifted our location or anything like that?
No, some of these labs are the ones that we had established as part of the previous Rajasthan pathology project, and which continue to serve some of the market there.
... Okay, so, and then when the contracts are over, it will be time for rebidding?
Yeah, some of these are tied up with local medical colleges there, so, you know, we have long-term duration of these contracts, and they continue to serve them.
Okay. Hello, Miss Amruta, is your question over?
Yes. Thank you.
Okay. Thank you. Next question will be from the line of Harsh Shah from Samaria Family Office. Please go ahead.
Hello. Hi, am I audible?
Yes, yes.
Yeah. So hi, congratulations on the great set of numbers. So I just wanted to understand the retail model better. So as I am understanding that initially when we had, like, a PPP center, we also had private walk-ins to our labs, right? So how this retail model will be different than that?
Could you repeat the question, please?
Yeah. So I wanted to understand the retail expansion that we are doing better. So, yeah, like, when initially, when we had a PPP center in any hospital, we also had a private walk-in... We also had private walk-ins there to that center, right? So I wanted to understand how this retail expansion will be different than the, like, model that we had earlier.
Yeah, hi, good morning, Mitesh this side. Yeah. So talking around the overall retail modeling, so first of all, as you rightly mentioned, today, with the PPP setup, there are certain set of, or certain percentage of the private patients which are walking in, but that has in restrictions with the particular geography. When we are talking of catering the overall addressable market size where all Krsnaa's retail, Krsnaa's infrastructure's presence, it, it adds up to close to INR 40,000 crore. And which needs furthermore expansion, and, furthermore, getting into the space where private patients or the patients which are looking for a far more integrated radiology and healthca- pathology services. So entire this model will be get unveiled in the, by the end of this quarter or something, and when we will get into the market for rollout.
Okay. Okay. So, like, the services will be, like, will there be a difference in the services, that will be offered to the private patients than the government patients?
Not really. There won't be a difference in any services quality. However, experience, there will be a differential experience that we are trying to build on.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much.
We are anyways will be one of the best quality service providers.
Yes, right. Right. Okay. Thank you. That, that's it from my side.
Thank you, Harsh. The next question will be from the line of Dhwanil Desai, from Turtle Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, good morning, everyone. Am I audible?
Yes, yes, yes.
Hi. So my first question is, my understanding is that the difference between the consolidated and standalone is largely the Punjab revenue, right? Is that understanding correct?
Yes.
Yeah. So, my question is that, you know, if I look at those numbers, you know, they're stagnated around INR 7-INR 8 crore per quarter. And, you know, when we were implementing this Punjab thing, I think we were aiming for much higher revenue. So any challenges we faced or we are facing on the Punjab side?
If you're comparing only just subtracting numbers directly from consolidated to standalone and directly try to derive the number of subsidiaries, so which is not basically the correct way. So basically, we have a revenue sharing agreement between the holding companies and the subsidiary companies, where we share the revenue being the assets has been deployed by the holding company. So the transaction between the holding and subsidiaries are based on the arm's length price, which is a revenue sharing agreement, because the assets has been deployed by the holding company. So the-
Okay.
This is not the right way to-
Okay.
Look at and find out the Punjab number. Yeah, and just from a growth perspective, I think, Punjab continues to be on a great trajectory. We had initially delays and setbacks. Having said that, we are much beyond all of that now. Especially on a month-on-month, we are seeing a very good trajectory in terms of growth. Plus, there are, you know, newer ways that we are trying to ensure that the growth momentum continues and achieve the number that we had initially thought for.
Okay. So second question is on this retail part, and I think you have mentioned in the opening remarks and presentation, that finally the aim is to improve the margin and reduce the working capital. Now, generally, what we have understood is that when you set up a diagnostic business in an ultra-competitive space, generally you start with, you know, investing money, and that means, you know, lower or negative margins. But given that we have infrastructure in place, and we are trying to leverage that, are you saying that, you know, on a steady state basis, let's say in six months to a year, we will be reaching an industry average margin in our retail portfolio? Is that a right way to look at it or, something else?
No, I think directionally it will be right to say that we, we should be targeting to achieve those margins. But I think one year, you know, this financial year will be too short of a period, because as this Mitesh has just joined, we'll be taking some time to do initial legwork, you know, stabilizing the operation. But basically, from next year onwards, we'll be able to target or we look at for those kind of margins.
But even I'm asking this question, Yash, is that, you know, we have all through been driving around 25% EBITDA margin, right? But if I kind of do the layered approach and go, like, into the details, our existing centers are doing 38% margin. New centers are at 12% and improving. And if the new foray also grows in line with industry average, you know, then how, how is it possible that we will not improve margin from 25%? I mean, what am I missing in this entire piece?
No, of course, the margin profile will improve. As I said, a combination of the existing PPP current, mature projects, the new projects that are ramping up, and with the retail, the margins will improve. But, also, you have to understand the fact that when we launch into retail with, the new kind of, you know, model that we're building, there will be some initial, expenses that we have to incur. Not very heavily, but they will be some. So, hence, I'm saying from a margin profile, while it will be 25%, but direction is of course, the better margin profile as we go along.
We are not high. This is Mitesh this side.
Considering the existing margins that we have at a personal magnetic level, we continue to be same and even ramping up further as and when the quarter goes by. Parallelly, we'll also aim it to stabilize the retail space in the coming six to eight to a year's time. Once it gets stabilized and start moving on, it will further add up to the existing growing margins.
Got it. Got it. One question on Maharashtra. I think this quarter we implemented 22 cities, right, in Maharashtra, from, that is what I get from the presentation. Is that my understanding correct?
Yes. Yes.
Okay. Okay. So that's a very good achievement in terms of execution. So, you know, given that, you know, we, we have done this in the Q1, how should we look at the entire FY 2025 for, you know, out of 73, you know, how many we would like to operationalize?
So further, like, as in the pipeline, we already mentioned, the MRI will be deployed in a phased manner. So this year we have targeted to set up an operational five MRI and another, like, another eight city plus six, eight and six current 14 cities will be deployed in this year. Basis balance will be once and we get a confirmation from authority and the site clearance and other parameters, we accordingly keep you updated quarter on quarter, how the moments are happening on this project.
Okay. So you have 32, plus you will add 14 cities and five MRIs, right? For FY 2025.
Yeah. Yes. Yes. So far.
Okay. Okay, got it. And a last question, so I think, clarification more. I think you said that for Rajasthan, if the tender comes up, we have already arrived at some understanding with vendors for vendor financing, and hence, it may not be a very large cash outgo. Is that what you're saying?
Correct. So that is where we are saying currently we have, you know, certain commitments from, some of these large OEM vendors which will be work, and some financing, arrangements. As and when the, you know, decision comes through, we'll be able to give you much more clarity.
Okay, got it. Thank you, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, that was the last question. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Yash for closing comments.
Thank you. Thank you, everyone, for joining our Q1 FY25 earnings call. We hope we were able to address all your queries. If there are any unanswered questions, please feel free to reach out to our Head of Investor Relations, Mr. Vivek Jain. We look forward to interacting with you in the future quarters. Thank you.
On behalf of JM Financial, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.