A very warm welcome to the Q3 FY 2024 results conference call of Krsnaa Diagnostics Limited. Before we begin, I would like to remind all the participants that today's call may contain statements that are forward-looking statements, including but without limitation, statements relating to the implementation of strategic initiatives and other statements relating to Krsnaa Diagnostics' future business developments and economic performance.
While these forward-looking statements indicate our assessment and future expectations concerning the development of our business, a number of risks, uncertainties, and other unknown factors could cause actual developments and results to differ materially from our expectations. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes.
Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing * then 0 on your touchtone phone . Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Jainil Shah from JM Financial. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yeah, hi. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the Q3 FY 2024 results conference call of Krsnaa Diagnostics Limited. Joining us today on the call are Mr. Rajendra Mutha, Chairman and Whole-Time Director; Ms. Pallavi Bhatevara , Managing Director; Mr. Yash Mutha, Joint Managing Director; Mr. Pawan Daga, Chief Financial Officer; Mr. Vivek Jain, Head Investor Relations. I would like to now hand over to Mr. Rajendra Mutha for his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
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Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon, and thank you for joining us today for Krsnaa Diagnostics Q3 FY24 earnings call. I want to express my gratitude to each one of you for being a part of this call. Our investor presentation has already been shared and is accessible on our website, as well as on the stock exchange's website. I am sure you have had a chance to review the presentation.
I would like to confirm the news shared by our honorable chairman that I have resigned from the post of Managing Director. However, I will continue with the company as Executive Director from the start of next financial year. I would like to take this opportunity to thank my fellow directors and the management for extending their cooperation during my tenure as the Managing Director. Now, I would like to brief you about the industry and our company. Healthcare is one of the key sectors in India in terms of both revenue and employment.
The share of expenditure on health with respect to the total expenditure on social services has increased from 21% in FY19 to 26% in FY23. Diagnostic forms are a very essential part of the healthcare industry and is usually the first step towards treating diseases. Starting from the diagnosis of the disease to the prognosis and determination of treatment, regime to post-treatment monitoring of the patient. The diagnostic industry is highly competitive and fragmented in nature, and the market share of organized players is only limited to around 17%.
The major amount of the market share is with the unorganized players. More number of players in the industry are focusing on geographical expansion and inorganic growth, acquiring regional local players to capture higher market share. The focus of government is development and performance. It resonates well with our business model.
In the interim budget of 2024, the focus on increasing and improving healthcare facility was clearly visible. Wherein, the announcement to increase more medical colleges across our country, inclusion of maternal and child healthcare scheme under one plan, also increasing the Ayushman Bharat scheme to include ASHA workers and Anganwadi workers and helpers.
Diagnostic industry under PPP model is an ever-evolving and dynamic sector that consistently confronts new opportunities as well as unforeseen challenges. Krsnaa, as a PPP service provider, tirelessly strives to preserve life and promote the well-being of individuals. Customers today seek more accessible and affordable solutions to address their immediate healthcare needs.
The industry demands has accelerated the adoption of digital health technologies, opening doors to innovative approaches in diagnostics, treatments, and preventive care. Amid these transformative times, Krsnaa remains adaptable and agile, embracing technology and fresh paradigms to effectively address present and future healthcare requirements.
Over the past few years, Krsnaa Diagnostics has evolved into a fast-growing and esteemed diagnostic care provider, serving communities throughout the country. Our robust capabilities enable us to deliver affordable and superior healthcare services to the remotest and underserved regions of the country.
Underserved regions of the country—I beg your pardon —by seamlessly blending dependable diagnostic services with affordability, we have garnered high customer trust, paving the way for an exciting and promising future. We are making relentless efforts to extend our reach by strategically opening new diagnostic centers in the underpenetrated market across Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities. Our aim and focus is to ensure that even individuals in remote areas can benefit from our advanced diagnostic services.
We ensure that access to high-quality healthcare is not just limited to metropolitan areas. We prioritize adherence to the highest quality standards, using certified testing reagents and employing qualified radiologists and pathologists to ensure unparalleled accuracy and precision in our diagnostic services. All these initiatives provide Krsnaa better business opportunity in the near future. Now, I would like to hand over to Mr. Yash Mutha, our Joint Managing Director, to take you ahead on company development. Thank you.
Thank you, Miss Pallavi. Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon. I would like to thank the board of the company for considering me for the post of the Joint Managing Director. I am pleased to present the impressive performance of Krsnaa Diagnostics Limited during the third quarter and the first nine months of fiscal year 2024. Now, let me brief about the recent developments. We have successfully operationalized our Assam pathology project.
The large project of Assam, which we secured during the first quarter of this year, encompasses the establishment of 10 laboratories, 44 collection centers operational 24/7, and 1,212 collection centers. The anticipated revenue for this project is expected to become visible in the coming quarter of fiscal year 2024. We have also successfully operationalized nine CT scans in the state of Maharashtra. The remaining 30 CT scans would be soon operationalized, and the revenue projections are expected to materialize from the first quarter of fiscal year 2025.
Over the last three months, we have successfully established six new pathology labs and established 116 pathology collection centers and 64 new tele-reporting centers. These endeavors have been meticulously aligned with our expansion strategy. As mentioned earlier, as a strategy, we are establishing 40 labs across these various locations in premises, which are taken on lease and not in the government premises.
These labs will allow us to augment revenues from PPP as well as incremented revenue from the B2C and B2B customer segments, and therefore allow us to leverage the infrastructure, which we are creating beyond the existing long-term PPP contracts . These labs further will also allow us to grow our network of collection centers, franchisees, et cetera. The Odisha project, which was operationalized in Q2 FY 24, is ramping up well, and we continue to see good traction from that state.
Our B2C business is also growing slowly and steadily and gaining momentum. We see a good traction of packages getting sold, along with increase in Krsnaa's brand awareness in the respective regions. We strive to improve customer experience with exceptional healthcare solutions tailored to individual requirements. As part of our continuous improvement efforts, we are constantly exploring new testing capabilities to cater to the evolving needs of our patients and customers.
We are aggressively embracing cutting-edge technologies, implementing analytical tools for critical departments, such as pathology, radiology, supply chain, and others, to provide a competitive range of diagnostic services that meet the highest standards of accuracy and efficiency. Our consistent growth in revenues and profitability is a testament to the effectiveness of our robust pricing strategy.
Our ability to maintain cost competitiveness stems from several factors, including economics of scale, large pool of captive customers, strong balance sheet, and efficient working capital management, and an optimized cost structure. These factors enable us to pursue sustainable growth opportunities and drive continuous success. We stand at the threshold of infinite possibilities. We remain resilient in our approach to adapt, innovate, and excel.
We have chartered ambitious plans to unlock opportunities for growth and expansion, ensuring that we continue to make a positive impact on people's lives and contribute to the advancement of the healthcare industry. With these in mind, I would like to now turn the call over to Mr. Pawan Daga, our Chief Financial Officer, who will provide further insights into our financial performance. Thank you.
Thank you, Yash. Good afternoon, everyone. I will now present the financial highlights for the quarter ending in December 2023. In the third quarter of FY 24, our total revenue from operations experienced a notable upsurge, reaching ₹158 crores, making an impressive 34% year-on-year growth. Shifting our focus to operational performance, our Q3 FY 24 EBITDA reached ₹38 crores, signifying a comfortable commendable 27% year-on-year growth.
We maintain a healthy margin of 24%. Additionally, our net profit amounting to ₹13 crores, with a corresponding margin of 8%. The net profit has been impacted by ₹4 crores, which includes Ind-AS impact of a long-term lease amounting to ₹3.32 crores, and one-time expenses of a finance cost arising out of processing fee of ₹0.68 crores. In nine months FY 24, our EBITDA has exhibited a significant increase, reaching ₹102 crores, demonstrating an outstanding 14% year-on-year growth, along with substantial margin of 23%.
Our net profit has reached ₹38 crores, with a margin of 8%. Taking a closer look at our balance sheet, we currently hold a gross debt of ₹133 crores, while maintaining a cash and cash equivalent worth ₹228 crores, as on December 31, 2023. It is worth noting that our company continues to uphold a net debt free status, a noteworthy accomplishment.
Our receivables as on nine months FY 24 is 121 days, which has increased due to delay in payment from Himachal Pradesh and Manipur. We would like to update you that we have started receiving the payment from this quarter onward, and the said receivable days will be normalized by the year end. Thank you. We can now open the floor for the questions and answers.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We have a first question from the line of Vandit Dharamshi from Alpha Invesco. Please go ahead.
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Sorry, could you repeat the last part? Your voice is not very clear.
What would be the lease liability amount in nine months FY 24 number?
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So, currently, from a position perspective, we maintain that we will be trying our best to remain a debt-free company. However, depending on what is the kind of project that we are undertaking, and if it is more efficient to take debt, we can take this decision accordingly. But as of now, we continue to be a debt-free company.
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So, our this credit billing is in the range of 30%, and the cash billing in the range of 30%.
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Thank you. The next question is from the line of Lokesh Manik from Vallum Capital . Please go ahead.
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Thank you. The next question is from the line of Omkar Kamtekar from Bonanza Portfolio Limited. Please go ahead.
Hello. Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Firstly, what I wanted to ask was with respect to the timeline with of the cities the CT in Maharashtra . So, we have only operationalized nine out of the 56 radiology centers in Maharashtra, and Maharashtra contract holds the largest amount of such radiology centers we have. So, in approximate, what time frame over the next four-five quarters, will the full all the centers would be operationalized?
Yeah, so, see, the reason for delays is mostly where the government has to give us the handover of the sites, as well as operation issues like having electricity on site. So, we are working furiously to ensure that we get the completion done as soon as possible. We expect it to be done within the next two to three quarters in a phased manner as we get the sites ready.
So, all 56 so, by end of H1 FY 25 is what we can expect all of the 56 to be online under our office?
No, no. The first is one for the 30 CT scan , out of which nine have been implemented. That will get covered in the next two to three quarters. And the balance the new tender that we won, since we just signed the agreement, it takes some time to operationalize.
Understood. So, you are saying by H1 FY 25, I can say 30 would be operational. Would that be a safe to assume, sir?
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I am sorry, if you could repeat the question?
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No, no, The Rajasthan Center is one center of MRI in Churu. So, that is a radiology center. That is not under dispute. The what is and which is with the High Court is the pathologic project, not the radiologic project.
Understood, understood. That was the that was the question. And finally, with respect to asset turns, so, from in the presentation, you have said that when our assets mature, we can we generate approximately 30-32% ROC in from the from the asset. What is the additional gross block that we are in this again over the next one, one and half year?
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Understood. So, whatever was the what is the historical monies will be continued. We are not going to additionally incrementally allocate anything further.
No, no. As and when the tender winds happen, for example, like the Maharashtra MRI tender that we have been shortlisted, as and when the implementation happen, that will require an additional investment, which will again add to our gross block. And likewise, if as and when there are new projects that get shortlist where we get shortlisted or we enter into the agreements, then additional capex will be incurred and which will be added to the gross block.
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Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aditya Khemka from InCred PMS . Please go ahead.
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No, this is as on the position on 31st December 2023. We have received the subsequent payment. But as on 31st December, the receivable days are one is 121 days, which is including the outstanding of Himachal Pradesh Pathology.
Got it. Got it. And secondly, you mention the you mention the CAPEX of ₹200 crore. So, can you break that up between different tenders? How much would be Maharashtra CT and MRI , and how much would be, let's say, other states where you might have run some projects?
Sorry, if you could just repeat that question, please?
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So, Aditya ji, we have like the current scenario where the new projects were awarded Maharashtra MRI, Madhya Pradesh MRI, and the city Maharashtra CT of the old one , which is going to be deployed. So, the capex range for this year, next fiscal FY 25, which will be in the range of INR 150 to 180 crore kind of. And this year, we anyway incurred INR 150 crore, considering all pathology projects.
Got it. I understand. Just an additional question on the capex. So, let's say, if you win the Rajasthan tender, if the decision of the court comes in your favor, will this 150 to 200 crores for FY25 will further go up because of that?
Yes, that is the additional overview about these capex that we plan to invest.
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[Foreign language], you know, the overall CAPEX is what we expect is in the range of about INR 200 to 250 crores.
So, if you win it, then next year, your capex will be in the range of ₹450 to ₹500 crores. Is that a correct assessment?
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So, we have tried these models, and we continue to explore this particular aspect of, you know, getting these equipments on pay-per-use . Especially now, with these kind of orders in hand, we are again you know, the discussions are ongoing with the vendors. And we will also try to see as much as possible how we can move to the so called asset-light model, where we don't necessary have to invest in the capex, but get it on a pay-per-use model. So, those conversations are ongoing as of now.
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No, no, no. So, this is what we are bound to invest, considering the projects in hand. Of course, if you go through the pay-per-use model, then the entire kind of capex will not be required to be invested by us. And, you know, it will go on the pay-per-use model. But from an amount perspective, this is what we are quoting.
I understand. The last question I had was, you know, given that Rajasthan is also pathology, and, you know, you have a certain other pathology tenders as well. So, your current mix between radiology and pathology, which is 65-35, two three years down the road, do you see it becoming like 50-50? Or, you know, what will be the mix of your revenue if you win the Rajasthan tender two three years down the road? What mix do you foresee?
So, with Rajasthan coming through as well as Maharashtra, these and the MP MRI tender, I believe it could be in the range of 65-35. Initially, Rajasthan if it picks up well, Rajasthan might have a larger share. But we will now, we see there are more, you know, radiology or we would rather want to focus back on radiology tenders as well. We would like to maintain in the ratio of about 60-40. Ideal would be 50-50, where radiology and pathology both contribute 50-50.
I understand. Just also on the margin front, so, as you do more pathology, you feel the margin at, you know, 23-25%. That is where you feel we will stagnate? Or do you feel that once the operating leverage comes in, we can go back to our historical margins of close to 30%?
No. So, with pathology projects coming in, and as you also know, you know, from an industry perspective, pathology margins are bit lower. So, of course, what we see is with these Assam, Odisha, and all the other projects, you know, stabilizing, the margins will be in the range of about 25% or plus.
25% and above. Is that what you're saying?
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Understood. Just one last question before I go back in the queue. On the B2C initiative, I see you guys have made a wholly owned subsidiary. And I know that the B2C initiative, you know, has been ongoing for a while now. So, can you give us some numbers as to what percentage of our current revenue comes from B2C? And let's say, in three years' time, how do you see B2C shaping up?
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I understand, Yash bhai. But just want to understand your B2C model a little better. So, in the government model, the model that we get the lab, government, we don't pay rent. In B2C, you have and, you know, you don't pay rent on government side, you are able to price your tax accordingly.
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I am sorry. Is it any better?
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Right. So, yes, they will be higher, but not materially higher, because what models we've tested, you know, since what we are trying to do here is leverage the existing infrastructure that we have, you know, like the labs setup that we have done or the equipments on the CT scan and MRIs. So, from that perspective, the incremental cost will largely be more towards the marketing cost or, you know, such ancillary cost.
And in spite of this, we see that our prices that we have currently offered in the market on the B2C space are significantly lower than the competition. And we believe that we will be able to continue offering our services at these prices as we go along. I don't see it to be marginally or, you know, materially higher than the current B2B prices.
And Yash bhai, would you be using franchisees to create collection centers, or do you plan to own, you know, open a self-owned collection centers in these B2C spaces?
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Thank you. The next question is from the line of Avadhoot Joshi from Bryanston Investments. Please go ahead.
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Yes, Avadhoot, please go a head.
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So, this is primarily because of, you know, certain equipments that we have taken on lease payment basis and of these labs that we have open on, you know, lease premise basis. So, that is the impact which you are seeing in the financial statements. It's a combination of radiology equipments and certain of these labs that we have taken on lease premise.
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Understood. Understood. And just another clarification, Assam is fully operational? That's because in the presentation, it is mentioned that the seven labs have been operational. Whether it is fully operational, that's what I want to know.
I think there are about three labs which are under implementation, which is expected to get completed by end of this quarter.
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Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amol Rao from Kitara Capital. Please go ahead.
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Yes. So, Assam and Odisha have been operationalized. Like, as I said, mention earlier, Assam three labs will be completed in these quarter, quarter and four.
So, basically, all the labs will be operationalized. And from next financial year, the revenues will start, you know, you will see more contribution from the revenues coming from Assam and Odisha. Maharashtra, it is 9 out of 30, and the balance will be happening over the next couple of quarters. Hoping, you know, by H1 of next financial year, we complete the entire 30 installations.
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So, of course, there were operational hiccups with a project like this, you know, where the ramp up was high. But now, it has smoothed out.
All right. All right. And congratulations on the elevation to GMD. And wish you all the best.
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Thank you. The next question is from the line of Deepak Podar from Sapphire Capital . Please go ahead.
Am I audible?
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Thank you very much for this opportunity. So, first up, I just wanted to understand in terms of CAPEX, the planning that we have. How are we going to fund it?
So, we have a combination of our internal accruals as well as certain vendor credit that we have been discussing, where vendors are now willing to provide us financing. This is the primary source that we are looking for. We might also evaluate debt if that becomes a more efficient way of capital.
But, like I also mention to the previous question, we are exploring where we can get these equipments on a PAYG scan or a PAYG use model. And the discussions are at an advance stage. So, a combination of all of these will help us to, you know, invest in these new infrastructure or new equipments.
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This is on the basis. So, if I have to invest about INR 200 crores, all these various initiatives that I spoke about will be utilized to fund these capex.
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So, it's expected by end of this month.
Okay. By Feb end. And assuming that the decision comes in our favor, then from Feb end, how much time will it take for you to actually start the revenue there?
You know, so, after we get the order, then the process of getting the agreements executed, and then the installation of labs will have to be done because there are multiple labs, almost 100 plus labs to be established across the state of Rajasthan. So, Rajasthan revenues, I believe, will meaningfully come only in the second half of the year or towards Q4 of FY24-25.
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And what sort of margins we might look?
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25% [Foreign language] 26 [Foreign language] 28% [Foreign language]
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That there is a slight change in our view?
[Foreign language] The change is largely because, you know, these as we see in the projects ramping up, especially Assam, Odisha, where the test menu and given the way these contracts are ramping up and shaping up, certain of these tests, there are the consumption costs is a bit higher set.
So, that is how we are. We see that it is stable. So, of course, with some of the other projects coming through, there might be an improvement. But, I would want to be with the, especially on the numbers, be a bit conservative and believe that 25% is a stable EBITDA margins for us.
And that excludes other income, right? I mean, you are saying operational basis, you are targeting that 25%?
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These amounts will not go significantly increasing from here onwards. It will be stable at these levels or may be minimized in over a period of time.
I mean, stable at ₹3 crore per quarter?
No. So, this is an impact of lease equipment and the rental. But, over a period, this will be reduced over a period of time. This is in one time which we see in this quarter and the last quarter.
So, this is a one time. And I mean, the reason I was trying to ask because you will always have new equipments and new premises, right? So, ideally, your lease rental will keep on building up. So, is that understanding wrong, basically? So, yeah.
No. No. So, currently, for the projects that we have already implemented, the impact has already been accounted for. And the labs on lease has already been done. So, we don't expect newer lease winds except for wherever these are financial arrangements that we are exploring. But, for the charge that you see in the financial statement, the INR 3 crores, these amount will start reducing from the quarter, subsequent quarter. This is what Pavan was alluding to.
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Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mayur Parkeria from Wealth Managers India Private Limited. Please go ahead.
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So, actually, it's just a couple of questions from my side. Currently, we are 9 months basis, our adjusted EBITDA margins are in the region of 25% itself. You said that if pathology centers, as expected in the next year, are going to increase, and the margin should come down, right? And you are mentioning that our aspiration is to maintain the 25% margin. So, I just didn't understand which of the sides.
The margins are not expected to come down. What I am saying is, currently, as of, we are operating at about 25%. We will continue that trend of maintaining 25%. The only thing, earlier, like, we were targeting to have about 27% to 28% or in that kind of range. But, given that the pathology mix is increasing in the business with higher consumption cost, that is the reason why we believe 25% will be stable EBITDA level throughout the next financial year.
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Okay. And one more little high level question in the sense of, you know, now, we are present almost in 16 states in some way or the other, right?
Broadly, if we look at our presence, bearing states, or, so, bearing some large states like Gujarat or other here and on the eastern side, we are present more or less across many large states now. And we are already in the very hyper growth stage where revenues are rising at 30%, and we are maintaining 30% CAGR.
How will you ensure, or at what is the time when we will see that it is time for us to start looking at, you know, bringing the growth, not only running after growth, but ensuring that our financial metrics is in terms of return on capital employed and margins, actually, the reported basis, not all adjusted basis. But on reported basis, they start depicting the true picture of the business, which is underlying the centers and the business, which is there. At which stage do we think?
Is it one year too? Is it two years down the line, or you believe we are already at that one stage and now? Because the opportunity may be continue to be very large. But at the same time, we need to size it up based on our size and what risk we owe financial risk and operational risk, which comes along. So, at which stage do you think we will start looking at that phase? Is it two years down the line, or is it a little more longer?
So, if you see, you know, first of all, just to give you bit of background, Krsnaa is a young company with just about 10 years, and our growth has been largely in the last five years. And with these, with in that, we've been achieving these kind of numbers or milestones. Now, along with these, there have been opportunities of large states, whether it is Assam, Odisha, Rajasthan, or Maharashtra, for example.
So, from a company's growth and long term perspective, of course, these contracts or these tenders are important for the company, and we would want to grow. Having said that, like we maintain and in the previous quarters, we said, now that we most of these centers are getting stabilized, their operations are getting stabilized, we expect the business to also stabilize. And equally, we started focusing on the B to C verticals as well.
So, directly, if you ask me, yes, you know, the company has reached a certain critical mass where things have now started stabilizing. And you could also see from the quarterly margins perspective where they have shown an improvement. If you ask me from a growth potential perspective, of course, there are many large projects. But, we are also now becoming very selective in which tender to participate, provided they are aligned to our financial metrics.
Only in those tenders, we would continue to participate and see if they add to the overall value that we are creating for the stakeholders. So, in my opinion, if it is a combination of, you know, if there are some good opportunities, of course, you would want to pursue. Any company would want to pursue such good opportunities. But, I think the opportunities large, and we will be more selective going forward is how I don't know answer that question.
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So, if you can see, we calculate these on annual basis. But still, I can give you the background on that percent that the semi matured, out of the semi matured, the annualized number was 14% of gross block. Out of that, we can see 5% will move to the matured side. And from the newly launched centers, we can see 12% to 15% of the gross block will shift to the semi matured block.
I understand. No, the reason I ask on the revenue side, because the centers and different scale would also have different capital turnover ratios at each stage. So, I just was trying to end one understand that how much of revenue is mapped on each of that stage, if possible.
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Thank you. Thank you so much. And wish you all the best. Thank you.
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Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aditya Khemka from Incred PMS. Please go ahead.
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So, basically, the requirement for the tender is to set up certain equipments, which are large equipments or CAPEX heavy equipments, or the cost is higher. And that is the reason why, if you see, the investment is larger. But from a turnover perspective or from an asset turn perspective, what we are expecting is 200 is like a conservative number. Of course, you know, as the business ramps up, these numbers should, I mean, in our opinion, at 12%, we will try our best to increase the number. But on baseline is what I am setting the number of the top line. But the investment is required as per the tender norms.
Right. And because it is pathology, these new equipment you are talking about, these would be analyzers by your match, right?
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Understood. And what kind of margins do you foresee if Rajasthan tender were to materialize? What sort of EBITDA margins would we have there? 25% or more or less?
I think it will be totally age and when, you know, these projects get operationalized, we will, we can be able to give a much better picture.
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So, Aditya, if you remember earlier also, we quoted Rajasthan as a very distinct and unique project, both from an expectation of top line and the margins. However, you know, as I said, it will be too early for us to come in on. Of course, when we bid for the project, we had certain projections in mind, and which is making this a favorable project like others. However, I think as of now, I want to revert back only when we have some more credible information, given that it's currently in the courts.
I understand. Just a question. And it's one last question on Rajasthan, because I just bothered about that. So, it's a cash project, or it's a credit project?
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Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rajnish Bahl and Individual Investor. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon. I have two questions. One is asked by the US participant. Like you told that you mobilize to the site when it is provided by the government. In case, is there any delay from the government side, do you get any compensation from the government?
No, there is no compensation. Typically, it works is when we start any PPP installation, we approach to the government asking them to hand over the site. As and when the site get hand over, then only the equipment procurement and installation begins. But there is no any kind of compensation given by the government.
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So, there might be an impact on the EBITDA margins, but definitely the PAT margins will be much better, because it's an asset light model.
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And what is the arrangement with them? Will, will be investing in the capex, or you will be doing the whole capex?
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No. No PPP that we've seen where government assures us with any numbers. It is based on, you know, our own survey and estimation that we do.
And is there any cap on the number? If the number goes about that number, there is further discount on your rates?
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And you are setting, you are trying to enter into B2C business. Like, you have set up a central lab in Mumbai, in Maharashtra. Are you planning to set any central labs?
So, we have set up labs in Maharashtra as well as Odisha and Assam. Then we have labs in Himachal Pradesh and Punjab as well. So, we will be leveraging all these infrastructure for the B2C initiatives.
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The next question is from the line of Omkar Kamtekar from Bonanza Portfolio Limited. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the follow-up question. Firstly, just a clarification. The radiological pathology mix split, what was given, was 65-35. And was that correct?
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And just to understand, so on a calculated basis, the average revenue per patient from the 1.1, 11.1 million patients that we have served in the nine months, that equals to ₹408. So, let's take it at 400. How do you think, how do you take, what are the measures that we will be taking to improve this revenue per patient?
And with respect to the margin, as we have stated that it is going to be steady state at 25% for the few quart ers and year and score, what are the major that you think, or what are the activities that you are going to undertake to improve this margin with respect to being, because compared to other peers, our margins are almost similar, but our revenue per patient is lower. So, how does that work if we can improve the margins as well? What are the initiatives that we are taking to do that?
Right. To just give you a bigger perspective here, first of all, you need to understand that Krsnaa offers the test at prices, which are almost 50% to 60% lower in the market rates. And that is how we operate in the PPP setup. Now, from improving the pricing, most of the prices are linked to the tender rates that we have contractually signed with these various authorities.
There are initiatives that we have done, for example, offering a mix of various tests, or it could be cross-selling certain of our services, or introducing packages, which could be at higher price points. So, these all initiatives are undertaken. And as I said earlier as well, we have seen a great success in selling packages, even in the kind of PPP model.
So, with these combination, of course, you know, our efforts are there to increase the price or the revenue per patient. But just to make it clear, our business is linked to rates, which are hard-coded or embedded in the contract. So, we do not have a great flexibility. But of course, there is a huge potential of increasing the revenue through volume. And this is a unique feature of PPP, where you have significant volumes, which you probably not see even in other players having these kind of volumes.
Understood. So, my second question was coming on that only. Because we have these captive audience via our nature of the business being through these tenders. So, the question that I was wanting to come to is, how much time will it take for us?
For say, for example, if you take a new project and it gets allocated to you, what is the time for it to mature? Because as you have said in your PPT, it takes about, it returns you up to 30% of ROI when the asset gets mature. So, the maturity time for us, the for us, would be much lower than the peers. So, what is that maturity time for the asset to become mature over over period?
Again, it differs from project to project and between radiology and pathology. But typically, a center is mature within one to one and a half year of time, if it's a radiology. Pathology, again, depending on the test menu size, it can even be nine to, nine months to one year.
Nine months to one year. Okay. And a small clarification, generally, the margins would be higher on the radiology side, just to understand.
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Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nitin Agarwal from DAM Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks for taking my question. Yes, ya, only one question. So, there is this talk of a National Essential Diagnostics List, which the government is probably looking to implement. I mean, a, have you heard anything about it? You had part in partly discussions around this? And what does it really mean? I was you mean, discuss, implemented for us from a business perspective?
Yes. So, the conversations are going on by the government authorities, and this has been going on. We had been asked for certain inputs. What I believe is, this will be a list that they are trying to look at. And once too early to tell, but this might have what we believe is a good impact for Krsnaa, given that it will create more opportunities with more tests. Earlier, there were basic tests. Now, there are certain special tests, so they are looking at all of these. So, in my opinion, this certainly will be welcome for Krsnaa as and when it gets implemented.
And this is what's going to be a model that states will have to follow up, which is prescribed by central government.
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Got it. And what you have seen so, by what timelines do we see these things getting rolled out?
Which will be too difficult for me to answer that question for now.
Fine. And lastly, you talk about the tender that you won in recent times. I mean, versus, say, like, a couple of years back and versus the pipeline and the kind of conversations you having now, I mean, qualitatively, can you just tell us, what is the difference in the kind of and the scale of conversations you having now versus what you having may be a year, year and a half, two years back?
Sorry, Nitin, if you could just repeat that question? I couldn't get the last part.
I am saying, the kind of conversations you having with various states now, who are looking to probably roll out tenders, PPP models of their own, I mean, what is the difference in the scale and the quality of discussions you were having now versus what you were having maybe a couple of years back? I mean, are there larger-in-scale tenders? Are there more states looking for these things?
Yes. So, frankly, first of all, we don't have conversations with any government. It's basically as and when these governments decide or authorities decide to publish a tender. Having said that, after the successful installation of our implementation of various PPP projects, of course, there have been discussions where now many states are exploring avenues to come up with more PPP tenders, and which I believe is creating more opportunities for us in the near future.
So, these conversations are going on more and more states, and especially with the emphasis from the various governments, where that is the Centre or the State , to increase access to health care for the citizens of the country. I think these conversations eventually will materialize into more opportunities for us.
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Thank you. Due to time constraint, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mister Yash for closing comments. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Thank you, everyone, for joining our Q3 FY24 on this call. Hopefully, we were able to address to all the queries. If any questions remain unanswered, please feel free to connect with our investor relationship team head, Mr. Vivek Jain. Look forward to interacting with you in the future quarters. Thank you, and have a good day, everyone.
On behalf of JM Financial, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your line.