Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Krsnaa Diagnostics Q1 FY 23 earnings conference call hosted by Equirus Securities. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Bharat Celly from Equirus Securities Private Limited. Thank you and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good evening, everyone, and a very warm welcome to Krsnaa Diagnostics 1Q FY 23 earnings call hosted by Equirus Securities. On the call today we have representing Krsnaa Diagnostics management, Mr. Rajendra Mutha, Chairman, Ms. Pallavi Bhatevara, Managing Director, Mr. Yash Mutha, Executive Director, and Mr. Pawan Daga, Chief Financial Officer. To start with, I will request the management team to make some opening comments, and then we will open the floor for questions. Yash, can you please take the floor over?
Sure. Thank you, Bharat. Good evening, everyone, and welcome to Krsnaa Diagnostics Q1 FY 2023 earnings call. Thank you all for joining us today. We have already circulated our earnings presentation, which is available on our website, as well as the stock exchange's website. I hope you all have had the opportunity to go through the presentation. To start with, from an industry perspective, the Indian healthcare industry was at the epicenter during the pandemic, which highlighted the importance of developing a robust healthcare infrastructure in India. Similarly, the need for high quality and affordable diagnostic services was clearly visible as it is an integral part of the healthcare industry, which plays an imperative role in diagnosis, assessing disease, and plays a major role in the treatment, management, and even prevention of diseases.
Today, the Indian diagnostic market is valued at $10 billion and projected at a CAGR of 14% in the next five years. With COVID-19 behind us, there are other key fundamental drivers of diagnostic industry, such as large population of 1.3 billion people, rising per capita income, allowing increased affordability and need to access better healthcare services, emergence of lifestyle diseases and increased awareness of preventive health checkups. Overall, looking at Indian demographics, there is a vast and underpenetrated market of diagnostic services which offers an immense opportunity to both organized and unorganized players. We are seeing new entrants in the market, which is good as it establishes the market place.
Furthermore, recognizing the importance of making diagnostic services affordable, the government and various states are continuously evaluating PPP or public-private partnerships as a viable and best alternative to provide high quality diagnostic services at affordable rates to the masses. Today, Krsnaa is a leader in the public-private partnership diagnostic space, and we are proud to have expanded our presence in the last five years, making high quality diagnostic services affordable and available to the remotest corners of the country. We are well-positioned to serve our patients and we see tremendous runway ahead to build upon our solid foundation. With this backdrop, I am pleased to inform that Krsnaa Diagnostics started a new fiscal year on a strong note with four new tender wins during the quarter in the state of Rajasthan, Maharashtra, and we have now entered into new geography of Delhi and Tripura.
We are also proud to announce that we have won the mega tender in the state of Maharashtra, which requires Krsnaa to deploy 31 CT scans and operate eight government-installed CT scans across 39 government hospitals. We were already present in Maharashtra at more than 400+ locations through the X-ray Teleradiology Project. With the new CT scan project, it will help us further consolidate our market positioning in the entire state. If you look at the asset deployment schedule, Krsnaa needs to deploy around 41 CT scans, two MRIs, set up 24 labs and 190 collection centers under the various contracts, excluding those that were covered in the RHP.
Presently, the agreement execution process has been initiated on all these projects and the implementation of these equipments is expected to complete over the course of next 9-12 months, and the contributions can be expected from next year onwards. We are progressively expanding our presence, and during the quarter we've added six radiology centers, 58 tele-reporting centers, three pathology labs, and 27 collection centers. As of today, Krsnaa is a leading PPP diagnostic player with 113 radiology centers, 1,439 tele-reporting centers, 53 processing labs, and 613 pathology collection centers. The implementation of the remaining centers is on track. However, there have been some regulatory and procedural delays in operationalizing these centers.
We expect all the centers mentioned in the RHP to be operationalized by end of the third quarter of this current fiscal. Coming to the financial performance during the quarter, in Q1 FY 2023, Krsnaa's core business of radiology and pathology registered revenues of INR 113 crore, a growth of 10.5% on a year-on-year basis and 6% on a sequential basis. This was practically a non-COVID quarter, and the COVID revenues declined to a mere INR 0.3 crore compared to INR 30 crore in the comparative quarter in the previous year. Our EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR 28 crore with margins of 25% and net profit of INR 14 crore with margins of almost 12.6%.
The EBITDA margins were slightly lower compared to the previous quarter due to the additional costs incurred for onboarding team to operate and run the newly launched centers. The margins are expected to improve in the upcoming quarters with the maturity of these centers. On the B2C side of the business, we are pleased to announce that we have 20 franchises that have been implemented in the state of Maharashtra and the new model is now taking shape. Our rate lists have also been finalized and the official press release will be made during this month by our CEO, Dr. Ravinder Sethi. All details regarding the rates and the go-to-market strategy will be disclosed in the press release to be done in this month.
On the pathology front as well, we have expanded our test menus to support retail customer needs across 10 labs in two states, namely Punjab and Maharashtra. We'd like to also inform that we will be launching our Center of Excellence in Genomics in the month of September. As of now, all the required validations and the regulatory compliances have been completed. On the technology front, we are also implementing the latest CRM for one of the leading vendors, and the implementation is expected to be completed by end of this month. This will help create efficient automated business processes to increase productivity, as well as provide the team with relevant data points to enhance customer engagement with an overall aim to improve the customer experience and satisfaction.
Looking ahead, we are focused on timely implementation of the projects which will also augment step-up growth coupled with maturing of recently launched centers and the further expansion of B2C business. With all these initiatives underway, we are confident that Krsnaa is well-positioned to meet its annual targets and remain one of the fastest growing diagnostic chains in India. Before I hand over the call to Pawan to discuss the financial performance in details, I would like to throw light on the recent income tax search related matter and clarify the rumors which have been circulating in various media articles. The income tax department in the last month conducted a search under the powers conferred to them under Section 132 of the Income Tax Act, 1961, at the premises of the company as well as various other locations.
The holding company has provided and will continue to provide all possible assistance to the officials and has furnished all the required explanations, information, and clarifications as currently required or requested by the department. The income tax authorities have not yet concluded the assessment, and there is no income tax claim or demand made by the tax authorities yet in relation to this search. Krsnaa continues to operate in the normal course of business, and there were no interruptions. Last week, it came to our notice there were certain media articles making false and baseless allegations of Krsnaa accepting the undisclosed income. None of these allegations mentioned in the media articles are borne out of any regulatory documents served on us. The remark about undisclosed income is not only inaccurate, but also baseless.
Furthermore, the revenue numbers circulated in the news report of March 31st, 2019 and March 31st, 2021 are highly inaccurate and misleading. As stated earlier, the authorities have not yet concluded their assessment and therefore no demand has been served upon us and consequently no demands have been accepted by us. We are committed to maintain the highest standards of corporate governance, and we reassure all our stakeholders that Krsnaa conducts its business with utmost integrity and sincerity. I will now hand over the call to Mr. Pawan Daga, our Chief Financial Officer, to discuss the financial performance. Over to you, Pawan.
Thank you, Yash. A very good evening to all the attendees. I will present a financial highlight for the quarter ending June 2022. In the first quarter, the company registered a total revenue of INR 113 crore and an increase of 4.3% on a sequential basis from INR 108 crore in Q4 FY 2022. The growth is led by our core business comprising of radiology and the pathology, which registered revenue growth of 10.5% on a year-on-year basis and 5.9% on a sequential basis. The COVID-19 revenue declined from INR 31 crore in Q1 FY 2022 and INR 2 crore in previous quarter to INR 0.3 crore in Q1 FY 2023. Operating EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR 28 crore flat compared to the previous quarter.
EBITDA margins were 25.1% in Q1 FY 2023, slightly lower compared to 26.2% in previous quarter. EBITDA margins were impacted due to additional costs incurred for onboarding a team to operate and run the newly launched centers.
The margins are expected to improve in upcoming quarter with the maturity of the centers. Profit after tax for the quarter one Q1 FY 2023 was INR 14 crore with the margin of 12.6% for the quarter. During the quarter, we have incurred a CapEx of around INR 20 crore toward operationalizing new centers. In terms of our segment contribution, Radiology was the largest contributor with 52%. Tele-reporting contributed 10%, and the Pathology contributed 38% to total revenue. The total test volume grew by 51% to 5.42 million, with the Radiology, Tele-reporting, Pathology seeing a strong growth of 18%, 137%, and 78% respectively.
During the quarter, the number of patients count excluding tele-reporting increased by 4.3% quarter-on-quarter, and the revenue per patient remains stable at around INR 965. The increasing awareness of Krsnaa's high quality services offering at a disruptive prices is driving the tests and the patient count. Thank you. We can now open the floor for question and answers.
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, if you'll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question comes from the line of Prashil Shah from CapitalSquare . Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. We have seen good growth on the number of patients side, about 50%. But we are not seeing anything close to that number in terms of revenue growth. Majority of the growth in patients was driven by pathology and tele-reporting. I mean, what's happening with the realizations with tele-reporting? Quarter after quarter we are seeing drop in realization per patient or per test. When do we see this bottoming out? What is our take on these realizations, especially the tele-reporting side?
Yeah. Basically if you see on the tele-reporting side, the reason why the realization is lower compared to the previous quarter is because one of the projects that we had, which was Assam, which we rebid when it came for re-tendering. We had quoted a lower rate because the investments that we already had made were recovered, and this allowed us to continue extending the revenue. That is one of the reasons why the realization is a bit lower.
What would be the impact of that on the realizations on overall Tele-reporting piece of the business?
Sorry, could you just repeat that question?
How much of an impact would that particular project in Assam would have caused for the realizations to come down so sharply quarter-on-quarter?
If you see, out of the total, tele-reporting project, Assam has a significant contribution in terms of number of centers as well as the revenue-
Yeah.
Volumes as well. That is why it has been able to drag the price per realization.
Okay. Just wanted you to reiterate. What was the reasons for going quoting lower.
Sure.
In this Assam project? What was the reason for doing that?
Yeah. First of all, the Assam project, as I'd mentioned earlier, we had successfully run for almost completed the tenure of the contract, which was five years. Post that when it came to rebidding, there was a condition that the bidder should, you know, either match with the lowest rate that was offered. That is why we had to quote the prices. Now, if you consider the investment is almost negligible. We don't have to do any investment, but we continue to generate revenues from the same equipment that we had deployed earlier. From an overall return perspective, from an overall financial metrics perspective, it was, you know, apt to continue with this project even at lower prices because the investments have already been recovered in the earlier tenure of the contract.
We see a good quarter-over-quarter volume growth in the Assam state, specifically in this project of tele-reporting.
Can I infer from this that the competition is rising in this Tele-reporting business or, maybe especially in the Assam?
No, no, no.
Okay.
If you see across various projects of tele-reporting that we have, we have different prices ranging from INR 50 to even INR 120 or INR 150. It depends on state to state. In this particular case, for the state of Assam, there was a requirement that they have to match, or the bidder has to match with the lowest rate, and that is what we had offered. Considering especially that there is no investment required to be done, to extend or, you know, continue with this, contract. If it had been a new tender, of course, you know, if you see various prices across various states for extra tele-reporting are different. And there considering the investments we have to make, our overall return ratios and accordingly the prices, have been quoted.
Okay. Just last follow-up on this. Given that now we have extended a contract at these new prices, how do we see these realizations bouncing back? Will they sort of go up from 85 per patient or how do we see this bouncing back?
Sure. What has happened is Assam being a very stable project, you know, which is continuously driving the volumes. The other tele-reporting projects. For example, if you see, we have tele-reporting in Jammu, we have in Maharashtra, we have in UP. As these tele-reporting projects start maturing, the overall aggregate revenue per patient will increase because some of these other projects have at a higher rate, and that should help us also increase the realization per patient going forward. Like Maharashtra, we have almost 400+ centers, Himachal Pradesh, Jammu. When all these projects start maturing, Maharashtra is the latest one which we've added. As they start maturing, they will definitely push the realization per patient going onwards.
Thank you. Mr. Prashil Shah, we may request that you return to the question queue for follow-up questions. Next question comes from the line of Jainil Shah from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. My first question is, you know, with Maharashtra centers getting operationalized in 2Q, you know, which is supposed to be a major contributor, how should we look at our quarterly run rate thereafter? Or, you know, maybe you could help us with, you know, what could be our exit rate by 4Q.
If you refer to the Maharashtra project, are you referring to the new tender that we won?
No, no. I'm referring to the RHP projects.
Yes. Could you just repeat that question?
With Maharashtra centers you know getting operationalized in 2Q you know it's supposed to be our major contributor. Like then how should we look at our quarterly run rate thereafter? Revenue run rate thereafter?
Yeah. With these Maharashtra projects, especially the ones that are covered in the RHP, as they get activated, they should be able to contribute close to almost about INR 60 lakh, you know, across these four CT scan centers that we have, which will continue to add to our quarterly revenues.
Okay. My second question is on the, you know, recent contracts that we have won. You know, have we factored those in our 2x revenue growth guidance?
When we had quoted the 2x growth, those were not considered. We had considered certain tenders that we'll win. Of course, with the addition of these contracts in our portfolio, it gives us the confidence that the guidance will be achieved, you know, by the end of the next year.
Okay. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Chinmaya Bhargava from LSB Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. I have two questions. The first is a follow-up to the first question that was asked on the-
I'm sorry, your voice is not very clear.
Yeah. Can you hear me now?
Yeah, much better.
Yeah. My first question is, you spoke about how in Assam when we retendered the contract, we quoted lower prices. I wanna discuss this because it looks like this is a trend across other tenders that we've bid for. For example, in the Tripura contract that we won in June, it looks like we bid almost half the price compared to the next highest bidder, which was Apollo in this case. In the Indira Gandhi tender also, we bid almost twice as much as the next player. Could you tell me why the gap in the prices that we bid for is this large?
No, I think that's not the right statement. If I could just give another example of a similar tender, Andhra Pradesh, where we had bid initially it was for INR 33. When it came for retendering, we've almost quoted close to INR 60. Likewise, even the Tripura, it is almost, you know, higher than the higher than the existing Assam rate. Wherever, depending on the investment, we always price or quote the rates and accordingly the pricing is done. Now, particularly in the case of Assam, the reason why we as I mentioned, because the authorities wanted us to match with the lowest rate given that the investment was not to be made. That is how we have done.
If you also see in the history as well, there have been other projects where we've priced higher than what was the existing rate. It all depends on the, you know, what is the kind of investment that is required. Of course, we have to also consider the competition, but based on all the various factors then the rates are quoted.
Okay. I have one last question here. I know Rajasthan, the government wants to offer free diagnostics and has put up a tender for about 3,000 centers across 33 districts. I know we've bid for this, but could you tell me if we've bid for the entire contract or a portion of this, and when we'll know updates to this particular tender?
Yes. That is one of the tenders that Krsnaa has bid for and for the entire state for all the 3,000 centers. We're also equally waiting to see when the, you know, overall technical evaluation will be completed and the financial bids will be opened up. As of now, we're equally waiting to hear the results, and we are hopeful that, you know, we should be able to win this contract.
Thank you. Could I ask one last question very quickly?
Sure.
Why are we hiring senior executives in mergers and acquisitions? Are we looking at an acquisition in the health tech space?
I'm sorry, we haven't been looking for any candidates in mergers and acquisitions.
Okay, fine. I'll get back in the queue then. Thank you.
Yeah.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Nitin Agarwal from DAM Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, thanks for taking my question. Yes, on the Punjab contract, you know, when do we see the full impact of the installation coming through in the numbers?
Yeah. Just to give you a bit of color there, Punjab, when we had started the operations of installations in, I think, October last or December, we were hopeful to get the, you know, implementation done, within, Q1 of this year. With our past experience, you know, this is the normal time it takes. In Punjab, there have been certain operational, you know, delays, procedural delays, including getting the sites from the authorities. At various locations the sites are complete, but the electricity connections are yet to be, given by the government. There have been these procedural delays that have impacted.
We are, you know, earnestly putting our efforts to ensure that all these centers get live and which should help us basically then start augmenting the revenues from these centers.
Do you have a timeline in mind by when you are expecting this to contribute?
Basically our target is to get all the projects completed by September. There might be few locations which might extend into, I mean, Q3 of this year.
Yeah.
Almost majority of them should be completed by end of September.
The locations which are on the border side of our territory in India, so where we are getting in some procedural delays to site readiness and other things. That's why we expect that may go for third quarter. Otherwise we are targeting that to be completed in the Q2 itself.
If you can just help us remind, what is the total peak revenue potential of these contracts across pathology and the radiology in Punjab?
Sorry, could you just repeat that question?
I mean, the full peak potential of this contract, the entire radiology plus pathology contract in Punjab, at peak, what kind of revenues or contribution?
The entire Punjab both radiology and pathology, if you know on an annualized basis with all these centers up and live, we are expecting almost about INR 100 odd crore of revenue. Majority of this revenue, if you see today, is all cash. Just to give you a quick run rate we have, you know, we have already achieved, which we started off with just a mere INR 50 lakh on a quarterly basis. It has almost gone up to INR 3 crore per month. The revenue run rate keeps on building. All the revenue that we've booked till date is all cash with no credit from the government. You know, that is one area of opportunity for us.
As soon as the authorities or government in Punjab also clears that, we will also be able to build upon the credit revenue and at the same time we are ramping up our cash revenues today, which currently the entire Punjab revenue is purely cash.
By Q4 end, we should be expecting that Punjab INR 24 crore annual quarterly revenue should be more or less, you're indicating or it will take some more time?
No. I think by Q4 all the centers should be up and running, and we are equally working towards it so that, like Pawan mentioned, by September is what we've kept the target, except for a few centers which might slip into Q3 of this year. Q4 definitely we will see all the centers up and running.
Sorry, just push that. How much time will it take you to get the peak revenue of INR 100 million, INR 100 crore annual?
If I say if all the centers are operational today, normally it takes about six months for them to start ramping up and getting the mature level of revenue.
Okay. Sometime, if not last quarter, maybe first half of next year, we should.
Yes. Definitely.
The center which is operationalized in Q2 of last year, now they are generating a huge scan count per month is already reached around 700-800 per month kind of level.
Secondly, apart from the Punjab contract, as we look through the remaining four or five quarters, what are the major contracts that will start, you know, generating?
Nitin, your voice is not very clear to us.
I'm saying apart from the Punjab.
Maybe get closer to the mic.
Is this better?
Yeah.
Yeah, much better.
I'm just saying apart from the Punjab contract, over the next few quarters, if you can just help us understand how many more installations are we probably doing over the next through the course of FY 2023?
Sure. Currently we have Himachal Pradesh, the pathology lab setup that we are currently doing across the entire state of Himachal Pradesh. We have the Delhi center coming up for a CT scan. We also have Rajasthan, one CT scan coming in Churu. After that we also have Chandigarh as well, and eight CT scans in UP as well. Chandigarh one MRI is coming up. Excluding the Maharashtra, which has almost about 39 locations that has to be implemented. All these projects are also currently being executed as we speak.
By when will all of these four projects in your assessment be completely executed, or whatever you have won so far?
All these projects that we won, if we consider Himachal Pradesh that we are targeting to complete by in the next two quarters. Delhi hopefully should be done in the next couple of months. Rajasthan as well. Maharashtra and the large project that will probably take about 6-9 months of time, considering it's a large project. Most of these projects that we won, we are trying to ensure that they get completed within the next two quarters.
Aside the Punjab contract, what will be the peak revenue of all the other new contracts that you will incrementally commercialize? If you could give a rough sense on that.
See, it will be, as of now, you know, while we are still in the implementation phase, it will be difficult to quote this. But if you have to take an approximate value, it should be adding up to almost INR 100 crore of additional revenue.
INR 100 crore of Punjab and INR 100 crore of incremental revenue from non-Punjab projects.
From all these projects, yes. You know, which is like, a baseline that we are expecting from all these additional projects that we've undertaken.
Okay. The profitability should be in line with what you've been doing.
Yes.
Of this overall business.
Yes, yes.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is on the line of Chetan Palak from Alpha Invesco. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks for the great set of numbers, especially on volumes. I just wanted to, like, you know, ask about the, you know, performance excluding COVID and excluding Assam, both on the volume, revenue and margin side. Then, you know, also what is the plan for the non-P2P business, non-PPP business? The business with private hospitals and B2C business, what's the plan for that?
Sure. You wanted to get a sense on the overall volumes that we have done excluding the COVID, right? That is the first part of the question.
Excluding Assam.
Yes.
I need to exclude Assam.
Just give us a moment. We'll try to fetch the data. In the meanwhile, I think, if I just talk about the tele-reporting, the radiology volumes, there we have MRI, for example, has grown almost 114% year-on-year. CT scan is almost about 2%.
No, no. I, the second question was about the non-PPP business. The business with private hospitals and the B2C business. Business with, you know, direct, consumers.
Okay. On the private hospital front, currently we have signed up with almost two such hospitals where the agreements are done and we are about to do the installation. On the B2C side, that is where I discussed earlier, we have established 20 franchises in the state of Maharashtra. We are now rolling out the model across two states of Maharashtra and Punjab in the first phase, and then Rajasthan and Himachal Pradesh in the second phase. Basically there we'll be establishing franchises and this will be, you know, shortly announced through a press release where CEO Dr. Ravinder Sethi will be providing more details about the entire B2C market as well as the go-to-market strategy that we have.
Okay.
Maybe we'll come back to the question on the volumes, while, you know, Pawan is looking at the data.
Next question. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Utkarsh Maheshwari from Reliance General Insurance. Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir. Am I audible?
Yes, you are audible.
Could you just elaborate about the Rajasthan tender and all? What could be the entire tender size and all? Because I believe State of Rajasthan is actually releasing in the district-wide sort of thing, not as a full state tender, right?
Rajasthan, this particular tender is about 3,500 collection centers, and it's a large tender. In terms of the size, we are looking at between INR 200 crore-INR 300 crore of revenue that we can expect on an annual basis.
Mm-hmm.
Of course, Rajasthan as a state is supportive of PPP in terms of the experience that we've had. We are hopeful, you know, that if this comes into RFP, that will also be a good win for us.
I just want a clarification question. I would like to ask. The billings happen via us to the government or to the customer only?
Sorry, could you repeat that?
When somebody comes in at the centers, I mean, in the state of Rajasthan or could be like any other state, say for example Bombay or all. The billing, what we do is to the state government or is it through the B2C billing to the customer directly? How does it-
There are, if it's a credit patient, the patient comes in, the patient will avail the necessary test or scan.
Mm-hmm.
After the tests are being done, the report along with the document is then submitted to the.
Mm-hmm.
NHM authority, which is National Health Mission, and they along with the state then release the payment. There are like in the case of Punjab PPP, the collection is done directly from the patient where the patient comes, avails the services and pays us in cash. There are both these models which are currently working in the PPP model.
Basically there is, I mean, is there a distinction between the states or is it like case to case basis?
No, it depends on the tender to tender. Some of the tenders, they clearly stipulate that the cash has to be collected directly from the patient. Most of our portfolio of the project is where NHM and the state basically reimburse us the services that we have provided to the patients.
Basically, if I want to understand how much of our revenue base currently is like, from the tenders is like where we are billing directly and how much is coming via NHM?
If you consider our revenues, almost 70% of our revenues are through the government revenues, wherein these are coming from the NHM and the state combination.
Okay. That is where your, I think, debtor days, comes into picture, right?
Correct, correct.
Have you seen any kind of changes in those, debtor days? I mean, any kind of credit losses are happening and all, something?
No. If you see, in fact, in the last quarter, we had one of the best recoveries, with our debtor days coming down to almost 46. Also there have been various changes happening at the, you know, from a policy perspective at the government level as well, where there have been guidelines issued from the central ministry to various state governments to ensure that the payments of PPP partners are made on time. There are clauses wherein, like in Punjab, we have an escrow account, where government will be parking funds for credit patients which we can withdraw. There are various of these mechanisms that have been put in place to support the PPP partner receiving their claims. Having said that, there are of course procedural delays, which is part of our business.
As of now, we have not seen any exceptional trends that are affecting our receivables.
Last question is on the in terms of what should now be the normalized growth. Because, I mean, as you have mentioned, there has been a reset in case of Assam and even in case of Tripura also it has come for the reset for your tele-reporting. I mean, when you say 2x of the revenue and 3x in the profits, how much should we look at as a, I would say like-for-like, and how much should be coming in as a result of your expansion?
I mean, we are growing faster and probably if we see as a number of installed base what we have currently, probably we will have 1.5x in terms of installation and probably more than that in terms of our collection centers in radiology and the lab pathology side. I mean, how do we project the realization as a mix of volumes and of value growth? Because I think the competition is very heavy, and we are also trying to get into the B2C, which is again a very severe competitive market. Probably over there we really don't know what kind of pricing discipline is going to happen.
If I want to understand that when you say 2x the growth, how much will be coming in from as a format of volume growth from the centers which are like, which are in operations as of 31 March 2021 and later on as a mix?
Yeah. If I could just basically answer that question, how much do we expect, you know, for existing centers to contribute to the growth. We are expecting about 20-25%, you know, growth of our existing base, excluding the new projects that we will be adding as we go along. The 2x guidance that we have given was a combination of both our existing centers and new projects that we have undertaken because they will have a higher growth rate compared to the mature centers, which will be growing at their own pace. These combination of these elements will, you know, is what we are confident of achieving the 2x by the end of two years.
Thank you. Mr. Utkarsh Maheshwari, we request that you return to the question queue for a follow-up question, as there are several participants waiting for their turn. Next question comes from the line of Ritesh Parikh from Absolute Advisors. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, can you please guide on the Maharashtra new contract what we have won this quarter? What will be the kind of CapEx and by when we would be able to deploy and potential revenue from this contract?
Basically this Maharashtra tender that we have won requires us to install 31 new CT scans and operate eight government-owned CT scans. The CapEx outlay that we have budgeted is in the range of about INR 65 crore-INR 70-odd crore. You know, which will be taken in terms of installation across all these locations. In terms of revenue, I think from a mature perspective, you know, we should expect almost about INR 70-odd crore to start off as the annualized revenue across all these centers.
By when we should be able to deploy and operationalize?
We are targeting almost 9-12 months for the entire project to go live. Given that these are across the state at various remote locations. It'll take about 9-12 months to get the entire project operationalized.
Okay. Again, in terms of this Punjab contract, which we had won last year, and it is in the rollout phase. And we are facing some amount of delay over there. Will there be any penal clause or so we will be losing on the opportunity of the contract period what was given to us by any chance?
No. Basically, if you see, you know, typically the way the setup works is once we win the contract, the government has to allocate the space to us. We go and start setting up the equipment, and then basically the center gets operationalized. In Punjab, most of the delays have happened, A, first because there was a change of government, you know, with the Aam Aadmi Party coming up and they being the government. That led to certain delays. After that when we came over, you know, for the new team members to understand the project and then basically allocate the required spaces took time.
From that perspective it does not really impact or there are any penal consequences because it is not just entirely upon us for the delays. Equally the authorities have to allocate the space to us and then only we can do the implementation. Like even the electricity challenges that we are seeing at some of the centers is where the onus is on the authorities to provide us electricity to a certain point after which it is our responsibility. From that perspective we don't see any, you know, penalties being levied onto us.
Lastly, on this Rajasthan and this large tender, can you just throw some light on the competition intensity and how many bidders, and whether they will be allocating or how many districts they will be allocating multiple tenders or how it will be like?
Basically the Rajasthan tender, initially when it had come out, it was smaller, we had just a couple of bidders. This time we have about 6-7 bidders, both, you know, big and, I mean, small and large. Of course, it is, you know, highly competitive process as we understand. Considering that the 3,000 collection centers have to be deployed across the entire state. Certainly it's a project, you know, which everyone would want to back. We are also equally looking to see how this whole thing unfolds in the next couple of months.
Okay. Thank you. That's it from my side.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Manoj Dua from Geometric's. Please go ahead.
Sir, I missed how much CapEx is required for the new Maharashtra tender.
Maharashtra, we are expecting about INR 65-70 odd crore for the Maharashtra new tender.
Okay. We were planning something, a tie-up with the machine supplier to pay-per-scan model. Are you progressing that?
Correct. Yes, for this particular project, we are exploring the pay-per-scan model or, you know, basically where the equipment vendors will supply us the equipment, and we don't have to deploy our capital. The conversations are already going on with the vendor. In fact, even from the vendor's perspective, it's a large order for them. Currently, you know, all the vendors who are, you know, basically who fit with the requirements of the tender are having discussions with us, and we'll probably choose the best alternative out of it and go ahead with the process.
Okay. Thank you, and best of luck.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Shiv Prasad from Tara Capital Partners. Please go ahead.
Hello? Am I audible?
Yes.
Good evening, Yash Mutha. My first question is with respect to the revenue. As you said that you're still sticking with the 2x for the next year. Just wanted to know for this year, as earlier stated, you were seeing somewhere around 30%-50% expected growth, but as you said that the Punjab contract, there were delays. Wanted to know that, do we still stick with that timeline for this year's revenue? What is your expectations?
Sure. Earlier, of course, you know, when we started off with the Punjab project, we were confident of achieving 30%-40% growth. With these delays that happened in Punjab, you know, that is where we've recalibrated the growth to almost about 20%-25%. Having said that, and considering that, you know, if we are able to deploy all the equipment by end of Q2 or by end of September, which will allow us to ramp up the project in the next six months. Basically by the start of the next fiscal year, all the centers should be operationalized.
Coupled with the Himachal Pradesh pathology project, as well as the other projects that we have recently won, that gives us the confidence that we should still be able to achieve the 2x that we had quoted. However, I think we'll have more clarity by end of the next quarter, and we should be in a better position to give further guidance on this aspect.
This year in estimates, are those things more confident that you want to say for this year's growth?
Sorry, could you repeat that question, please?
For this financial year, what is the expected growth that we could broadly say?
For this financial year, as I mentioned earlier, we are looking at about 20%-25% growth by the end of this year.
Existing centers, you are expecting 20%-25%, then some additional from the new centers. Is that right or is it for combined it was 20%?
If I compare with our last year financials, we are expecting 20%-25% growth overall. You know, especially considering the delays in Punjab project. This should allow what we had quoted earlier, about 30%-40% guidance. You know, we're just recalibrating it to about 20%-25% considering these delays.
Okay. In that case, the next year you need to grow at what? more than 60% growth for you to double the revenue, so that is still on track? If you grow 25% this year, for you to stick to the 2x the next year, it should be upwards of 60%, right?
Correct. If you see what we had earlier estimated for Punjab on a full annualized basis, that we, you know, because of the delays could not be achieved in this year. As it gets added into the next year financial overall performance, that along with the other projects is where we are currently confident. I said, you know, by the end of this quarter two, we'll have more clarity how these projects are getting implemented and basically, you know, then give further guidance on this. As of today, at least we are hopeful and confident that we should be able to achieve the 2x that we had quoted earlier.
Got it. The next is with respect to the margins. The last quarter we had seen that due to the new contracts that were deployed in high cost or expense cost, that there was a slight decrease in the margins which we experienced it in this year also. Going ahead also, we do have these contracts coming every quarter where you need to put in this thing. Earlier you were stating that it is in the 30%-35% range. Do you think that that is kind of possible or do you have any revisions?
No, from a margins perspective, of course, you know, if you see from overall perspective, we had expected to be in the range of 30%. The reason for the dent in this quarter was largely because of, you know, employee that we had onboarded for the Punjab, and it's not contributing the revenues, you know, given this delay. On a steady state, as the revenue starts mixing, of course, it should further improve the EBITDA margins as we go along. Now, the new projects that we will be onboarding, they will anyways be happening over the next 6-9 months. We don't expect, you know, because by the time the revenues of the existing and new projects should have been stabilized.
We don't expect significant dent in the margins except, you know, if there are really cases where the delays occur, which are, you know, beyond our control. We are all working on this to ensure that the margins move in an upward direction going forward as well.
Okay. With respect to the tele-reporting where you are, you were saying to the previous participant about Assam. When I was just looking at the number of tele-reporting centers, Assam has less than 10% of your tele-reporting. Maharashtra, Uttar Pradesh have a sizable thing. Just wanted to understand, is there how does the revenue of this line. How to look at this thing altogether? Because that alone, that is not a huge number, right? Tele-reporting from Assam is like 130-odd centers you have. Overall, you have more than 1,400 centers, so it's less than 10% of the entire revenue. One contract impact, I couldn't understand that. Could you just throw some light on that?
Yeah. Basically, if you see Assam, as I said earlier, contributes almost 2/3 of
1%-2%.
Of the total revenue and a mix of various projects. Now, you know, if you see a cohort of the entire tele reporting projects, there are some projects which are stabilized, some of them which are at high rates, but they are yet ramping up, including contracts like Maharashtra, Himachal Pradesh, which we've recently added. So as the centers start maturing, their revenue contribution will be added to the overall revenue performance, and hence the realization per patient will improve going forward. That is what equally we are watching out. Now, there have been some projects which have been basically affecting the revenue realization per patient on the tele reporting because some of these projects which are at lower price have contributed more in this quarter.
You know, hopefully in the next quarter, as we start the balancing out of the other projects, they should lead to a better improvements in the realization per patient.
Okay. The last one from my end. I mean, the new projects after your listing, the Maharashtra, the few contracts that you have to do in the Punjab. How are they in line with your projections for this, what you have already established? Are they in line with what you have projected for in this first two quarters?
When you say projected in terms of opportunities or?
How is the revenue and the profitability of what you have projected when you thought of entering the project, and how is it right now after, like, you've already established more than half of them, right, operational? The first two quarters. I mean, last quarter also you've there was few of the centers which are operational. For the first two quarters, how is these two new centers revenue and how are they profitable wise?
Yeah. In terms of the projects that are currently under implementation, both in terms of revenue and EBITDA, they are in line with what the expectations we have typically when we go about installing these centers. There have not been any exceptional trends as such or any surprises. We, of course, you know, except for the delay part where the ramp-ups could not happen the way we are expecting. In terms of the financial metrics, we are in line with what the expectations we had.
Okay. Thank you, Yash, and all the best.
Sure. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Avnish Khara from VT Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. My first question is just a clarification on the INR 100 crore you're expecting on an annual basis from Punjab, and then other INR 100 crore that you spoke about, where is it from? Is it from only the tenders that you have won right now, or are you also expecting some new tenders to be won and this is the INR 100 crore for that?
The 100 crore was for Punjab on an annualized basis. The other 100 crore when, you know, I think one of the gentlemen asked us for the various projects that we won, including Delhi, Rajasthan, and Maharashtra, how much it is. That is where they have added, excluding the, I mean, basically the new project that we will be winning, that will add to another 100 crore.
Right. Okay. also on the NCGM and Somaiya centers in Mumbai, last quarter we had guided that, those will be operational by now. What is the issue that we are facing over there?
There again, basically we are facing the electricity challenge, power, because, you know, the power connections from vendors like Adani has not been completed yet. The center almost work is completed. We just need these high power lines, so that connection needs to be provided to us and the centers will be operational, which we're expecting by end of this month or latest by mid of next month to get operationalized.
Okay. I just want to understand your strategy to enter B2C. I mean, what is the reason that, you know, our core business has always been to be involved in the PPP model. Why is it that we are diversifying out of it when, you know, this is our core strategy for so many years and B2C is obviously more competitive also. I just want to understand what is your perspective on the same.
Of course, PPP is our strength and we continue to focus on the PPP side. However, you know, this is a question that has been asked many times, you know, in terms of Krsnaa's presence in B2C. What-
Mr. Avnish, please go ahead with the question. The line of Mr. Avnish has been disconnected. We'll move to the next question. The next question comes from the line of Aditya Khandelwal from SIMPL. Please go ahead.
Yeah. The number of CT scan and MRI centers were around 130 in December 2021. This has come down to around 107 in March 2022. Why was there such a decline in one quarter?
Can you repeat the question, please?
The number of CT scan and MRI centers were around 130 in December 2021, which had come down to around 107 in March 2022. Why was there such a decline in one quarter?
Last quarter only, we already recorrected our presentation or reclassified the CT tele-reporting center is already subtracted from the CT and MRI count and which is classified into the tele-reporting. Now the equipment counts and the CT MRI count is completely getting tallied.
Okay.
Basically there are certain centers, CT scan which were getting classified under tele-reporting CT scan centers, but they were classified as CT scans, so we just reclassified them in the correct nomenclature. Also there was a question by earlier gentleman regarding our foray into the private. I'm not sure if that we got disconnected then.
No. It wasn't my question.
Okay.
Just wanted to clarify one more thing. COVID revenue for the financial year 2022 was INR 32 crore. Is that number correct?
Just one second.
COVID and COVID allied revenue, INR 38.39 crore. The quarter one COVID allied test also classified into the COVID revenue. Quarter one of last year.
Okay. The whole of financial year 2022, the COVID revenue is around INR 39 crore.
COVID and COVID allied
Allied, yeah.
INR 39 crore, INR 38 crore and INR 39 crore. Correct.
Sir, about our B2C business, what is the strategy for the pricing? Is the pricing going to be similar with the prices we charge to the district hospitals? The franchise fees that we are expected to pay and the margins, is it going to be the margins will be below the company level margins?
Basically the pricing that we will be offering will of course be competitive. In terms of the overall go-to-market strategy as well as, you know, the way we are going to implement this, we will be announcing this through a press release, shortly, you know, through our CEO, Dr. Ravinder Sethi. I would just suggest, you know, bear with us for now, and we'll be making these announcements soon.
Okay, sir. That was all. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Due to time constraints, we have reached the end of question and answer session. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Sure. Thank you. We thank you everyone for sparing your time for us in this earnings call. On a closing note, I would just want to basically say that we hopefully answered all your questions. Apologies for the technical glitch that we had in between. If any questions remain unanswered, please feel free to call, connect with our investor relationships team at the Churchgate Partners, and we look forward to interacting with you in the future quarters. Thank you very much. Wishing everyone a pleasant evening. Thank you.
Thank you, everyone.
Thank you, everyone.
On behalf of Equirus Securities, that concludes the conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.