Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q2 and H1FY25 Earnings Conference Call of Lumax Auto Technologies Limited. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions, and expectations of the company as on the date of this call. These statements do not guarantee the future performance of the company, and it may involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Anmol Jain, Managing Director of Lumax Auto Technologies Limited.
Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. A very good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. A very warm welcome to our Q2 and H1FY25 Earnings Conference Call. Along with me on this call, I have Mr. Deepak Jain, the Director, Mr. Vikas Marwah, CEO, Mr. Sunil Koparkar, Managing Director, IAC India, Mr. Sanjay Mehta, Director and Group CFO, Mr. Sanjay Bhagat, Head of Aftermarket, Mr. Ashish Dubey, CFO of the company, Mr. Naval Khanna, Corporate Head of Taxation, and Mr. Ankit Chankrah of Corporate Finance, along with SGA, our Investor Relations Advisor.
The results and presentations have been uploaded on the stock exchange and the company's website. I hope everybody has had a chance to go through the same. I am happy to announce that our performance for this quarter has been very strong, with a revenue growth of 20% at INR 842 crores, which has been the highest-ever single-quarter revenue in the history of the company.
H1 witnessed strong performance, with revenue standing at INR 1,598 crores, a similar growth of 20%. This performance stands as a testament to the core principles that define our brand, our enduring relationships with customers, and the unwavering dedication of our entire team. However, it is also important to acknowledge the broader context of the automotive industry, which did face certain headwinds during the quarter. A few key factors impacted growth across the industry. The general elections in the country did slow down the capital expenditure, impacting the demand for commercial vehicles. Heat waves and heavy rainfall in many regions affected overall consumer sentiment and business activities, specifically in the aftermarket. The traditional observance of the Shraddha period, which fell entirely within the month of September this year, also influenced purchasing decisions among consumers.
On a segment-wide basis, on the passenger vehicles, the inventory levels for passenger vehicles rose during the quarter, driven largely by anticipation around new model launches from OEMs. However, we are seeing inventory levels gradually decrease due to strong festive season sales and attractive discounts from the OEMs. Overall, as noted previously, we expect the passenger vehicle segment to register a low single-digit growth for the full year as an industry. On the two-wheeler side, the two-wheeler segment continued its growth momentum, particularly in rural areas. The recent launch of high-end models by OEMs has driven substantial demand, with festive season sales providing an additional boost. Looking ahead, we anticipate this upward trend to persist, fueled by a stronger rural economy, continued introduction of premium models, and evolving consumer preferences. The commercial vehicle segment experienced a subdued performance this quarter for reasons already explained.
However, we are hopeful that the demand for CVs will rebound in the second half of the year as government spending resumes and infrastructure projects regain momentum. Turning to Lumax Auto Technologies, we are excited about our growth journey that lies ahead, with a clear focus on several strategic priorities. Number one, increasing our content per vehicle. We continuously aim to expand our range of offerings for each vehicle, each segment, enhancing the value we provide to our OEM partners and strengthening our presence in the auto market. Number two, introducing new product categories, which are EV-agnostic, through new joint ventures and new acquisitions, with prime focus on improving the top line and the bottom line growth. Number three, maintaining our position as a trusted single-source partner for major OEMs and delivering cutting-edge technology by drawing on the expertise of our global joint venture partners.
Number four, lastly, to meet the evolving demands of OEMs and drive sustainable growth, we are enhancing our own R&D capabilities, significantly focused towards technologies like ADAS, electronics integration, HMI, and software. Speaking of our operations, Lumax Tech is a financially sound, diverse automotive component manufacturer in the country, having partnerships with multiple global leading joint venture partners and having relationships with all major OEMs in the country. Coming to the product category-wide performance for the first half, Advanced Plastics was grown by 17% from INR 775 crores in H1FY24 to INR 907 crores in H1FY25. The passenger vehicle segment is a major revenue contributor for this segment, constituting almost 70% of the total. Our outlook for this segment remains strong, with more premiumization trends and addition of new product lines. The order book for this segment stands at INR 650 crores.
The mechatronics domain has grown from INR 26 crores in H1FY24 to INR 46 crores in H1FY25, a strong growth of 76%. This product category has a huge opportunity in terms of wallet share in new model launches through cross-selling. Many products are lined up for SOP in the second half of the current financial year, which will further increase the revenue pie. The order book for this domain stands at INR 175 crores for the segment. Coming to structures and control systems, revenue has grown by 11% from INR 306 crores in H1FY24 to INR 338 crores in H1FY25. The passenger vehicle segment contributes almost 60% of the total revenue. Our outlook for the segment remains strong, with opportunity to penetrate into the premium and EV segment and addition of new technology-driven products, with order book standing at INR 225 crores.
Lastly, our revenues from the aftermarket segment have seen a flat growth in H125 with respect to H1FY24. This is pretty much similar to all major tier one and other peers of the industry. This is largely because of poor income realizations from the aftermarket. However, the situation has started to show signs of recovery, with stronger growth expected in H2 through product launches, which may lead to a higher single-digit growth for the full year. The total order book, considering the value of all product and domain categories, is INR 1,050 crores, out of which 90% is new business. 15% of the order value will mature in the current financial year FY25, 40% in FY26, 30% in FY27, and the remaining residual 15% in FY28. EV contribution is approximately 40% of the total order book.
We look forward to a strong second half of the year, with several new model launches on the horizon. With our decades of experience, we have successfully navigated the shifting market dynamics to consistently deliver higher value to our customers and shareholders. This performance also highlights our resilience and unwavering commitment to excellence, and we are well-positioned to adapt, grow, and seize new opportunities in the coming years, thereby creating higher value. Now, I would like to hand it over to Mr. Sanjay Mehta, Director and Group CFO, to update you on the operational and financial performance of the company.
Good afternoon, everyone. Let me brief on the operational and financial performance for Q2 and H1FY25. With increased focus on passenger vehicle segment and integration of IAC, our share of passenger vehicle is at 50% in H1FY25 as compared to 47% in FY24. In H1FY25, two and three-wheelers contribution to overall revenue is at 25%, aftermarket at 12%, CV at 9%, and balance at 4% was contributed by other categories. For more detailed operational highlights on customer-wise revenue breakup, one can refer our investor presentation uploaded on the exchanges and the company's website. On financial highlights, the consolidated revenue for Q2 FY25 is at INR 842 crores as compared to INR 700 crores, up by 20% year-on-year. On H1FY25 basis, revenue stood at INR 1,598 crores compared to INR 1,332 crores, similar growth of 20%. EBITDA margin stands at 14% for Q2 FY25.
Absolute EBITDA for Q2 25 stood at INR 118 crores, growth of 18% on year-on-year basis. H1FY25 margin is at 14%, with EBITDA growing by 19% at INR 223 crores on year-on-year basis. PAT before minority interest for the quarter is at INR 52 crores as compared to INR 38 crores in Q2 FY24, a growth of 38%. The tax rate for the quarter is 26% and is likely to continue in the same range in the future. The CapEx outlay during H125 has been INR 32 crores.
However, with many SOPs planned for the second half of the year, the CapEx outlay for the whole year is estimated to be around INR 120-INR 140 crores. The company is sitting on a healthy credit of INR 387 crores as of 30 September, which is more than the long-term debt of INR 363 crores. With this, we open the floor for questions.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Harshil Shah from AM Investment . Please go ahead.
Hello. I'm Hershali Shah. Hello everyone. Congratulations on great numbers. So my first question is, could you share some insights on IAC utilization levels and current performance? What margins do you see as sustainable going forward, given the consistent 17% margins you have been maintaining?
So IAC, did you talk about the capacity utilization levels?
Yeah, IAC capacity, because we did some INR 280 crores of top line. So are we nearing peak in terms of utilization?
So yes, fortunately for us, Mahindra has been growing significantly. As you clearly see, in H1, IAC revenues have also grown by roughly about 19%. And in H2, we expect this growth to be even more significant on the back of certain model launches which are planned for H2 by Mahindra and Mahindra. So from a capacity utilization, I would say that we have already initiated certain brownfield expansions on our capacities, both in Pune as well as in Nashik. And these will be operational in H2. So post the investments, I would say that our capacity utilizations would still be close to around 85%.
Okay. And on the margin front, sir?
I think we have been able to maintain EBITDA margin of roughly between, let's say, 16%-18%. In the near future, let's say specifically for H2, we do expect a similar margin to be maintained.
Okay, sir. And sir, any updates on the new acquisition? Can you share first half top line and EBITDA margins? Green Fuel Solutions Private Limited.
So that has not been closed yet. So as of now, in H1, there is no revenue inclusion of Green Fuel in the financial set of numbers.
But what is the number? If you can share.
So let's say on a full year basis, we are expected anywhere between INR 300 to INR 350 crores of revenues with a stronger EBITDA margin than what we are looking at currently across most of our subsidiaries and joint ventures.
FY25, you're saying Green Fuel can do INR 300-350 crores of top line?
That will be FY25 total. Of course, depending on the closure, we will see how much of that gets consolidated in FY25. But this guidance, which I gave for annualized number, is more for FY26.
Okay. And sir, it will start contributing from January onwards, Green Fuel?
Perhaps. If we are looking at quarter three onwards, we should start getting it on our books.
Okay. Thank you all, and Vikas Ji, can you please elaborate on each subsidiary in terms of order book, actual performance and outlook? That would be helpful, sir.
Okay. So Hershali Ji, we are seeing a strong traction on mechatronics, as Mr. Bhuljeyan indicated. On mechatronics, while this year, I mean, in the last quarter, we have already seen a 70% growth, but that's a small base. We are planning to more than double up our revenue on mechatronics division, which includes the Ituran, Alps-Alpine, FAE, and Yokowo portfolio. These four divisions are the future drivers amongst many drivers for Lumax Auto Technologies in the future. We are planning to more than double up this revenue in FY26 also. Currently, we see in terms of the order book of all of these entities. So we see for mechatronics, close to a INR 175 crore order book already with us. And this is something which is still on the increased traction, and it will gain more momentum.
Plus, on Lumax Mannoh, we have an order book currently of INR 60 crores, but Lumax Mannoh is to be seen in the context that we get a rollover and carryover of many programs without the RFQs also. So that remains much of the traction. On LCAT, currently, the order book is slightly lower in terms of about 15-20 crores, but even that is gaining traction now. So if you see all of these subsidiaries, including one remaining subsidiary, SAE, which has not seen traction in the last few years, with the OBD2 now rolling out, we expect to get into the SOP of oxygen sensors for the first time with a major two-wheeler manufacturer by January 2025.
Okay, sir. And sir, Anmol Ji, can you share some light on the standalone business? With exports at Bajaj showing signs of revival, are we experiencing a similar trend? And your outlook for the aftermarket business? That's it.
I think the aftermarket first. I think aftermarket in the first half, as I said, has been subdued. But this is a phenomenon which is across the most major Tier 1s across the industry. In H2, we have already started seeing signs of an uptick. We do expect the H2 should be probably by itself a double-digit growth compared to year-on-year basis. And hence, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, for the full year, we still expect a high single-digit growth rate for aftermarket in the current financial. But we are monitoring it closely. We do have some exciting new product launches in H2 for the aftermarket, which should further fuel this growth momentum in H2. Coming to the standalone business, I think Honda Motorcycle has done exceptionally well. If you look at their numbers, they've grown by almost 33% in the first half.
Subject to that, our business of plastic injection has also grown by almost 21% for HMSI in Bangalore. We continue to also grow our metallic business, which has grown by almost 20% in the first half on the back of new models and growth of Bajaj Auto as well. We've started the production of the EV model, the EV Chetak as well in the first half. So that has also fueled this growth. So the standalone business also continues to look good, both on OEM part and specifically in H2 recovery in the aftermarket.
Okay, sir. Okay. Thank you, Anmol. That's it from my side. Thank you to the entire team.
Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask questions, please press star and one now. Participants who wish to ask questions may please press star and one at this time. The next question is from the line of Amit Hiranandani from SMIFS Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity and congratulations, team, for a good set of numbers. So first of all, on your last comment, basically on the standalone business, although we have seen no good improvement, but if we look at our key customers, Bajaj, HMSI, they have reported very good double-digit growth on a volume basis in Q2. But standalone revenue has grown by just 9%. Was the aftermarket the only thing which was dragging the revenue or any other reason for that thing?
Standalone business, if you see that comparison of H1 last year to H1 current year, as a reported number, it grew by almost 12%. But with the aftermarket registering a flat growth, if we reduce that aftermarket business, the OEM business has grown by 17%-18% with respect to the H1 last year. The same is the story for both the Q1 and Q2 with respect to the last quarters. I think just to add color, if you look at Bajaj Auto's full growth on a first half basis, their numbers have grown by 11% H1 to H1. By the way, our revenues with Bajaj, which are primarily all of it in the standalone entity, have grown by 17%, primarily because, as I mentioned, we have expanded our wallet share on specifically the fabrication and the chassis business. HMSI grew by 33%.
Based on our wallet share of the certain product mix, our value with Honda Motorcycle also grew by about 22% for the first half. This is pretty much in line with the OEM growth. As was mentioned, if I take out aftermarket from the standalone, we are looking at a high double-digit growth already in H1, and we expect a similar momentum to continue in H2.
Great. This is very nice to hear, sir. So continuing with the standalone business only, the EBITDA margin has shown very decent improvement. So what are the factors that led to this despite soft aftermarket? Generally, aftermarket is your high-margin business. So how much more juice is left on the margin side?
If you see the standalone margins with respect to the H1 last year, it has grew almost by 150 basis points, which basically includes certain economies of scale due to the higher revenue in OEM, and as well as certain, you can say, the price corrections from our major OEMs, namely Bajaj and HMSI, which were basically the carryover from the last financial year. These are the two reasons basically which have resulted in the increased EBITDA margins.
Scale and price increases, you said, right?
Yes. Yes.
Okay. And sir, what was the revenue of Lumax Ancillary Limited? Because this is required just to calculate the organic growth on a viable basis.
So in H1, Lumax Ancillary has reported INR 80 crores of revenue.
Understood, and sir, on the IAC India, it reported very healthy top line growth of 29% in Q2, and this we believe is largely driven by the M&M's strong performance. However, despite the good scale, the EBITDA margin dropped year-on-year by 29 basis points to 16%, and in fact, margin is lower Q1, Q2 by 302 basis points. So can you just explain to me what is the reason for this?
You are absolutely right. If you see the reported numbers, it has grown by 29%, the total revenue. But for this quarter, it included a substantial amount of tooling revenue in IAC, amounting to INR 35 crores. If we exclude that INR 35 crores as a manufacturing revenue, it has increased by almost 15%-16% with respect to Q2. And with respect to H1, the manufacturing revenue has grown by 17% and the total revenues by 19%. Now, coming to the second portion of your question, the EBITDA margins, EBITDA margins as an overall, it's about 16.5% for Q2, which is almost down by 150 basis points with respect to the Q2 of last year, which is mainly due to there were certain one-timers and price corrections from their major OEMs in the last financial year.
The reported margins, as Anmol Sir just mentioned, will be continuing to report between the range of 16% to 18%.
Right. And sir, for continuing with the IAC only, so Tata Motors business is expected to start from Q4 FY25. And apart from that, any other new order wins or a client addition if you would like to highlight on the same?
I will let Sunil just come in on the operational SOP of the Tata Motors business. I will highlight that we have won a full-service supplier business for Tata Motors, not just for the plastic interior products, but also for the ambient lighting. That's a new product category which IAC India has ventured into. We do expect to first stabilize this particular order and then perhaps grow the ambient lighting, interior lighting space to other OEMs as well. That's just a new product. We are continuously engaged in discussions with OEMs like Maruti Suzuki to expand and increase our wallet share. We are also engaged with new potential customers like Honda Cars India, apart from our existing customers like Skoda Volkswagen.
But just to come back on when the Tata Motors business will be operational, I'll let maybe Sunil, the MD of IAC India, take that please. Sunil?
Hello, Mr.
Hi. Good afternoon. I just wanted to give you highlights on Tata business. The newly awarded business, as Anmol sir said, will be launched in 2026. There are multiple businesses going on, but there is a significant design revenue as well in this program. The Q4 program, which we had originally announced, which will be launched for the Curvv, has been kind of put on hold because they wanted to launch the model, but it will be resurrected later, but to the Tata business, the product launch is in 2026.
Thank you.
It is slightly delayed, you said. Okay. Sir, on the Lumax Mano, so can you just tell me the revenue and margin in H1 for Lumax Mano?
The revenue in H1 for Lumax Mano stood at INR 176 crores. The EBITDA margins were pretty much in line with the previous track record of between 16%-17%.
Right. And sir, any update on the export business opportunity for Lumax Mano?
As you are aware, these are the subsidiaries with international joint venture partners. We have, in terms of the geographies. Currently, the visibility is restricted to the ASEAN countries, which is largely towards Indonesia and Thailand. Over the next 24 months, we are looking at having an overall about INR 30-35 crore per year kind of contribution coming in from these markets, depending on the launch of the new programs.
Understood. And sir, Lumax Mano in FY24, its revenue was around 350 crores. So I mean, just wanted to understand, where do you want to take this number by FY27?
So this entity, of course, holds the majority market share in terms of the gear shifters with all the potential vehicle manufacturers, which is close to 60%-62% market share. So therefore, it's in a stronger position. We are anticipating a year-on-year growth of about 12%-15%, depending on the OEM demand holding up.
Sure. And sir, on the Lumax Cornaglia, so we are supplying majorly to Tata Motors, which in turn has reported a degrowth in the first half. So how was your performance for Lumax Cornaglia?
Our Cornelia performance for the first half has been flat compared to year-on-year basis in H1, despite a negative growth of Tata Motors. We still are hopeful that for H2, we will continue to have a single-digit growth for Lumax Cornelia overall. As was mentioned earlier, we are sitting on an order book of INR 60 crores in Lumax Cornelia. Next year, we do expect the growth momentum to be much better compared to the current year.
Right. And sir, our plastic fuel tank, that product has started gaining traction. And how do you see the top line growing basically for this Cornelia?
The plastic fuel tank entry was done largely for Tata Motors. Entering during the development, Tata Motors had a shift in their strategy when they have replaced a lot of their platforms back to metal. Plastic fuel tanks have not really come in as a mandate till now. We are now looking at the overall roto-molding technology opportunities in the same machine setup that we have put. We are happy to inform that we have acquired the roofing business of one of the vehicle platforms of Mahindra there. We are aggressively targeting a couple of more businesses. Hopefully, I think with one machine that we have put up in terms of utilization, over the next 24 months, again, we are looking at INR 25-30 crore revenue coming from there, which would make it viable.
Roto-molding technology is a gradual and a nascent technology, which has just been introduced, and we hope to see traction there.
Sir, I just missed the first line. So you said the plastic fuel tank business is delayed or what?
I think Tata Motors has gone back to using plastic fuel tanks back to metal fuel tanks on a lot of their models, and that's the reason the uptake of plastic fuel tanks from our perspective has, let's say, hit some sense of a back burner. And that's the reason we are now trying to find different product lines which can utilize the machine, the roto-molding machine, better in terms of capacity, and that's why we have already won an order for the plastic roof of one of the tractor OEMs. Sorry, the three-wheeler, not the tractor, the three-wheeler from one of the OEMs to service that. So that's the new, let's say, product line which we are entering into, basically to utilize our machine capacities better.
Sir, but we have recently set up a large plant in Pune, considering that Tata Motors has given plastic fuel tank order. So just want your update on the same.
So that is one of the machines or one of the products. That plant is not specifically for that. That plant is an integrated plant for all Lumax Cornelia products and customers. And whatever revenue Lumax Cornelia does today, which is, let's say, around the 80 crores which it clocked for the first half of this fiscal, comes out of that single plant location.
Sir, how much run rate we can assume for the next three years? I mean, growth rate for Lumax Cornaglia. Now, the plastic fuel tank business is not with us presently.
As I mentioned, I think for the current year, we are still looking at H2 being a better growth driver because of certain new products as well. So we should be for the full year looking at close to approximately between INR 160-180 crores of revenue for the current year. And again, for the next year, because we have some order book, we should be looking at a high single-digit growth for Lumax Cornaglia next year.
Understood. And sir, lastly, on the emerging subsidiaries, basically, if you can help us with the H1 revenue for Alps Alpine and its margin? Also, sir, your midterm growth drivers for this Alps Alpine are to localize the power window switches, expand range of switches, introducing sensors and in-vehicle infotainment in mind. So how is the progress happening in this front? And how do you see revenue growth for this entity?
Lumax Alps Alpine, in the first half, did about 15 crores of revenue, which was flat compared to the previous year. In H2, standalone H2 basis, we are looking at doubling our revenues compared to the previous year. For the full year, we are looking at a handsome 50% year-on-year growth for Alps Alpine. We should be close to 50 crores revenue, although on a small base for the current fiscal. As I mentioned, we have almost more than 100 crores of order book on Alps Alpine. A significant part of this comes in FY26, largely driven by the throttle position sensor and the in-vehicle infotainment system for two-wheelers. Next year, we are looking to perhaps cross the 100 crore revenue mark for Alps Alpine.
Sir, this is for the passenger vehicle switches only, right? Just following up on our last question.
As I mentioned, both products in the order book of Alps Alpine are for two-wheelers.
Sir, in this continuing, I just asked you one question about these other products, like sensors and vehicle infotainment. How is the progress happening over there?
I just explained the same. The sensor and the in-vehicle infotainment both are getting launched in the later part of this year and early FY26, which will contribute to the total turnover of Alps Alpine to go beyond the INR 100 crore mark for FY26. Both these products are in the two-wheeler space.
That's it. Thank you so much, sir. All the best.
Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Before we take the next question, we would like to remind participants that you may please press star and one to ask questions. The next question is from the line of Rohan Mehta from Nexus Capital. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon. Thanks for the opportunity. Am I audible, sir?
Yes, please go ahead.
Yes, sir, my first question is on how the greenfield acquisition is playing out for us and what kind of synergies are we seeing currently?
The greenfield acquisition is on track. This partnership, as I mentioned, should be fructified sometime in quarter three itself and with consolidation revenues maybe clicking in from quarter three. We do see some very high synergies. And again, as I mentioned before, it is a step towards the alternative fuels market, namely CNG, LNG, and hydrogen, which we do believe have a very strong market in the future, both in the passenger vehicle as well as the commercial vehicle space.
Sure, sure, sir, and sir, secondly, how have the smaller JVs performed this quarter? What kind of growth are we looking at for these JVs in the medium to longer term, say, over a three to five-year horizon?
I think I already explained, let's say, the Alps Alpine JV has a huge potential where current year, as I mentioned, it would be just close to around INR 50 crores. We do expect it to double beyond the INR 100 crore mark in the next financial year itself on the back of a strong order book and certain launches which will come in the later part of FY25, FY26. Apart from that, let's say something like Yokomo will also be growing at a very strong rate of, let's say, 50%-70% in the current financial year, as well as continuing that growth momentum over the next financial year as well. I do understand it's a small base, but we do expect that critical mass to be brought in in FY26. Ithuran, again, we started with a very strong growth in H1.
There has been certain demand challenges with Daimler, and that's the reason for the full year, we are looking at still doubling our revenue. But that growth momentum will continue on a maybe 20%-30% mark over the next fiscal year as well. So these are some of the smaller JVs, which I believe Mechatronics is the culmination of all these JVs. And Mechatronics, as was explained earlier, will grow at almost close to 70%-80% this year. And next year, also, we expect the revenues of Mechatronics domain to double, maybe crossing the INR 200 crore mark.
Right, right, sir. That's it, sir. That's it from mine. Thank you so much and wishing you all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Participants who wish to ask questions, may please press star and one at this time. The next question is from the line of Aman Agarwal from Carnelian Capital. Please go ahead.
Sir, congrats on the good set of numbers, and thank you for the opportunity. A few questions from my side. First was on the inorganic space. We have acquired IAC India, and now with Greenfuel, how are we looking at basically the inorganic opportunities for the future? Would we like to basically digest these acquisitions and focus on improving more business from them? Or would we be open to going for more inorganic acquisitions and partnerships basically in the future?
Thanks for the question. The deeper journey I just take this one. So I think in our previous commentary, what we had said was that we would like to envisage getting more partnerships, new orders coming in with a much more healthy EBITDA. I think the company had a good success with IAC, where we were able to acquire 75% on a basis which was much more sales intense as well as having a bit higher EBITDA for the company. Similar philosophy has been used for identifying Greenfuel. They're very bullish on the alternate fuel, CNG particular segment, and a very similar kind of acquisition partnership structure has been done for Greenfuel as well.
I'm very hopeful that going forward, like what we are doing in IAC, acquiring more customers and accelerating growth of that company, we would be able to, as Lumax, along with the current promoter management, be able to do the same thing for Green Fuel going forward. Your question is that how do we basically take that? Of course, we have got current joint ventures. So if I look at the total business, right, we have actually the aftermarket division, which we would like to have a robust growth. Second, we have the current joint ventures in which Lumax Mano and Lumax Cornelia are actually having more basically revenue and profit. But we are hopeful that the other joint ventures get incubated. We have IAC, which I've just spoken about.
With Green Fuel coming in, we should be able to get more these kind of opportunities for having a faster track on revenue as well as having better margins because whatever businesses we are acquiring, they're having better margins currently. I think the philosophy fundamentally will remain the same. We will continue to very closely interact with our customers and try to get basically into segments which we probably are not in. For example, Green Fuel has a good play in also the commercial vehicle space. Of course, as CNG comes in, IAC had a whole premiumization model. As Mahindra has put in it, it's actually feeling better for the company because the whole space coming in from SUV. IAC helped the company to go largely from a two-wheeler now more dominated to a four-wheeler. Green Fuel will also continue to do that.
And also, greenfield is the first, I would say, powertrain or basically centric kind of, I would say, bet which Lumax is taking because we have never been very, very powertrain agnostic. But this time, we are betting big on CNG because going with India's plans, going with what the customer and particularly Suzuki, I think is very, very important for that. And we continue to basically scout for acquisitions which will not just synergize, but it's probably having higher or good profitability and good potential to grow, which with Lumax's OEM relationships, we can continue to do that.
Thank you for such an elaborate answer. It was really helpful. Second thing, sir, we have talked about our EV play, right, like EV strategy where we want to focus on. So have we finalized it? And any thoughts on that basically?
So right now, let's say if we are talking about our organic products, which are also applicable into the EV space, as I mentioned earlier, out of the order book of INR 1,050 crores, almost 40% of this order book is towards EV models, both in passenger cars as well as the two-wheeler space. However, we are currently not further pursuing any opportunity in the EV-specific component space. As an alternative, as I mentioned, we are a lot more bullish on the penetration of alternate fuels like CNG, and that's why we are strategically aligning our direction into that space and pouring into that segment, so for EV critical components, right now, the company has no plans to move forward in passenger cars or two-wheeler space.
Thank you, sir. That was really helpful. Just one question, sir, since we would be looking for expansion across our verticals, so any debt to EBITDA level or debt to equity level we are looking at maximum level since we may go for further acquisitions, right? So any thinking on that, sir?
So currently, I think if I were to give you a horizon of over the next three to four years, I think we do expect that with the order books in hand and with all the current product lines which we have, we should be able to grow at least 50% more than the industry's growth rate. So that is something we should be able to easily grow. And for that, there is enough cash generated during the year to be plowed back to fuel that kind of growth. To further that growth rate in the going forward coming years, I think we will do a mix of perhaps fresh debt as well as using our strong internal free cash sitting on the books. So with a mix of that, I think we will be plowing that in inorganic opportunities further and going forward to further accelerate the growth rate.
Thank you, sir. That's it from me. Thank you for answering my questions.
Thank you, sir. Before we take the next question, we would like to remind participants that you may please press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Amit Hiranandani from SMIFS Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Sir, continuing with the emerging subsidiaries for Lumax Jopp, our target was to become a full system supplier along with Lumax Mano. So is there any progress, any cross-selling opportunities you're seeing? If you can, just let me know on this.
Thank you, Amit. Lumax Job came into India to make a joint venture with us basically for one product, which was shift towers. That became an FSS offering to the OEM along with the gear shifter division of Lumax Mano. However, while we are happy to inform you that Lumax Job has won substantial shift tower business from country's largest PV manufacturers, mainly MSIL. The program gets into the SOP in FY26. Currently, they are supplying shift towers only to Mahindra. You will see large critical mass emerging in FY27 when we start supplying the shift towers to Maruti Suzuki. That's a large business award. However, Lumax Job is also now aggressively pursuing the electric shifter strategy because that is what they do globally along with Volkswagen and with other European OEMs, including JLR. Those programs are currently underway.
In the next quarterly board meeting, we will be able to present a more clear picture in terms of Lumax Jopp's roadmap over the next three-to-five years. We see very strong potential there.
Sir, what was the revenue for H1 and margin for Lumax Jopp?
H1, we had a negligible revenue of about INR seven crores, although it was 70% growth, but it was a very low pace. Right now, we've not yet achieved break-even because of the low revenue. We do expect that on a full-year basis, this should double up to maybe anywhere between 12 to 15 crores in terms of revenues. Again, the order book is almost 50 crores for Lumax Job. Once that kicks in, we should be able to tide the wave of getting into profitability as well.
majorly INR 50 crore order book executable in FY26 and FY27 combined, right?
A very small portion of it comes in FY26, but as I mentioned, the Maruti Suzuki SOPs are in FY27, and that is their 80% of the order book live right now.
Right. And sir, any update on the oxygen sensors business, the FAE side? The implementation date is April 2025. So any change from the deadline change or you have won some order? Anything you can update on this, please?
Yes. So this is one business that has been waiting to get off the block largely due to the OBD2 implementation. By all signals, by all indications from the OEMs, and no other voice heard from the government circles, we are anticipating February 25 productionization of these vehicles with the second sensor. So we are going ahead with the SOP in January with a major two-wheeler manufacturer. We are looking at supplying almost 500,000 sensors in the next financial year. But yes, from February onward, you will start seeing the revenue coming in. And for the full year FY26, we are anticipating almost 40% capacity utilization of the plants that we have put up. And definitely, then we will get more aggressive in the market with more order acquisition.
Understood. Sir, oxygen sensor, generally, we use two oxygen sensors, right, in two-wheelers, and approximately realization per oxygen sensor is around 500. Am I correct in this?
So the oxygen sensors traditionally were the unheated sensors that were being deployed by most of the OEMs. 80% OEMs were deploying unheated sensors, which had a price of anywhere between INR 300-INR 400. And then the heated sensors were INR 450-INR 600, largely imported from two global manufacturers. Lumax FAE will be giving only heated oxygen sensors. We are not in the unheated oxygen sensor game. So you have a price bracket there.
Right, and sir, just the bookkeeping question. I just missed the gross debt number as on 30 September and the cash and investments in hand.
The free cash as on 30 September, as on consolidated basis, is INR 387 crores, and the long-term debt is INR 363 crores.
363 crores is the long-term debt, okay?
Long-term debt, yes.
Understood. And what is the annual repayment schedule, sir?
Annual repayment schedule for the whole year was the long-term debt was INR 75 crores. Out of that INR 75 crores, 37, half of it has been paid in H1, and the balance will be paid in H2.
Okay. And sir, CapEx outlook for consolidated business? And if you can break up majorly where we are going to spend this in.
CapEx, if you look at last year to this year, there should be an incremental CapEx of about 60 crores. Last year was around 80 crores. This year, we're looking at anywhere between 120 to 150 crores. This CapEx largely will give us almost 400 crores of additional revenues in the current year itself. From an asset turnover, the additional CapEx to additional revenue will be almost 1:7 in FY25 itself. Part of most of this CapEx will go into the IAC as well as the Metallics for.
Right. So.
Into new subsidiaries, the smaller JVs.
Right. So just last one final question. On the consolidated EBITDA margin, so in H1, it's slightly lower than the last year. So do you still maintain your annual guidance of keeping EBITDA margin at same level of what we have achieved in FY 2024?
I think if you look at EBITDA margins, total in FY24, we did 14.6%, but there were certain one-off cases. If I were to take them off, the normalized EBITDA was maintained at 14% on a consolidated basis. The same is already achieved in Q1 as well as Q2 at 14%. And we expect this margin to continue in Q3 and Q4 for the remaining part of the fiscal despite headwinds. But we are pretty sure that we will be able to deliver this top-line growth with a sustained EBITDA margin.
Right. Sir, any internal targets to take this margin ahead for the next three years' perspective?
Absolutely. I think as the top-line grows, as I already mentioned, we should be able to get the top-line growing organically 50% more than that of the industry growth. If the industry grows, let's say, at around 8%-10%, we should easily be looking at a 12%-15% growth organically. For that, with that organic growth, with better operational efficiencies, with the newer subsidiaries scaling up, we should be able to expand those EBITDA margins further, perhaps from 14%-15%.
Many thanks, sir, and wish you very all the best. Thank you so much.
Thank you very much.
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, that was the last question. I now hand the conference over to management for closing comments.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone for joining into the call. We will keep the investor community posted on a regular basis for updates on your company. I hope we have been able to address all your queries. For any further information, please do get in touch with us or Strategic Growth Advisors, our investor relations advisors. Thank you once again, and have a good day.
Thank you, sir. On behalf of Lumax Auto Technologies Limited, that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.