Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q2 FY 2025 earnings conference call of C.E. Info Systems, hosted by DAM Capital Advisors. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. To direct assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on a touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Anmol Garg from DAM Capital Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Muskan. Good evening, everyone. On behalf of DAM Capital, we welcome you all to Q2 FY2025 conference call of C.E. Info Systems, better known as MapmyIndia. We have with us Mr. Rakesh Verma, co-founder and CMD of the company, Ms. Sapna Ahuja, CEO of the company, Mr. Anuj Jain, CFO, and Mr. Saurabh Somani, company secretary. I'll now hand over the call to Mr. Verma for his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thanks, Anmol, and thanks to all the participants this evening who are attending the earnings call. I'm Rakesh Verma, and let me take you through some salient features. I hope you have gotten a chance to look at the financials of the company, the press release, and the investor presentation. Further to that, I would like to start saying that MapmyIndia has received official board approval today to establish a joint venture with Hyundai AutoEver, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Hyundai Kia. MapmyIndia will hold 40% stake with a capital investment of $4 million. A joint venture named PT Terra Link Technologies will be based in Indonesia and will concentrate on providing map-based solutions for automotive OEMs and other businesses across Southeast Asia. Estimated revenue of JV would be to the tune of multimillion USD over the next five years, with order booking and revenue recognition from FY 2026 itself.
This JV will also benefit current customers of MapmyIndia. Our Q2 FY 2025 revenue from operations increased to INR 104 crore, a 14% year-on-year growth, and the first half of FY 2025, which is H1 2025, saw a revenue growing to INR 205 crore, as against INR 181 crore in H1 FY 2024. EBITDA for H1 FY 2025 reached INR 80 crore, yielding a margin of 39.1% compared to INR 78 crore, and a margin of 43.2% in H1 FY 2024. EBITDA for Q2 FY 2025 was INR 37.5 crore, yielding a margin of 36.1% compared to INR 40.5 crore, and a margin of 44.5% in Q2 FY 2024.
Decrease in margin is primarily due to investing on a continuous basis during the last four quarters in consumer business for the future growth, and these investments are booked as expenses, resulting in downloads of Mappls app surging from 10 million in H1 FY 2024 to 25 million in H1 FY 2025.
Our profit after tax for H1 FY 2025 rose to INR 66 crore compared to INR 65 crore in FY 2024. Our IoT-led business, the EBITDA margin improved significantly, rising from 7%- 14% during the same period. We are on track for achieving our goals of fiscal year FY 2027-2028, which we have shared with all of you last year. Now, I would like to introduce Sapna Ahuja, who is the COO of MapmyIndia. Today, this is part of our desire to keep changing between myself and Rohan Verma as one of us and the other one from the senior leadership so that you get more exposure to our management team. Over to Sapna.
Thank you, Mr. Verma, and good evening, everyone. As we reflect on our performance in Q2 FY 2025, it is clear that while the overall market we served faced some challenges, we were able to perform reasonably well thanks to our open orders and, most importantly, our incredible teamwork. To give you some perspective, in the first half of FY 2025, our automotive and mobility tech revenues saw an increase of 19.3% year-on-year, and our C&E revenue grew by 8.2%. More specifically, in Q2 alone, A&M revenue jumped 27%, reaching INR 60.9 crore year-on-year, while C&E revenue held steady at INR 42.7 crore. Over the past several quarters, we have worked hard to expand our reach and establish ourselves in the international markets. A key milestone in this journey was securing a significant win with PT Terra Link Technologies in Southeast Asia for map solutions.
We successfully acquired new customers and deepened our relationships with existing clients through upselling and cross-selling. This included significant wins and go-lives across various sectors, including automotive, fleet management, tech startups, traditional corporate, government entities, and defense. Our diverse range of solutions saw increased adoption, further such as our ADAS and EV mobility stacks, video telematics for fleets, APIs and SDKs for app developers and enterprises, and geospatial solutions like 3D digital twin mapping. Now, moving specifically into the automotive and mobility tech business, we saw new wins across two-wheeler, four-wheeler, and commercial vehicle OEMs, so further solidifying our position in the industry. Some of our major go-lives, including high-profile models such as Hyundai Alcazar, Hyundai Creta, Kia Carnival, Kia EV9, Mahindra Thar ROXX, Mahindra XUV 3XO. We also saw success with Acer, Eicher, and JCB, where we entered into the commercial utility vehicle space.
In terms of fleet management, we secured major wins, including monitoring vehicles for an electronics major, rate tracking for cement companies, and video telematics for auto carriers and the transportation of heavy equipment. Additionally, we achieved a significant milestone with the go-live of the Maharashtra State AIS 140 backend, which will provide safety and emergency response solutions for all commercial use vehicles in the state. Coming to our C&E business, we saw multiple wins in the e-commerce, USR, delivery, and mobility sectors, where our APIs were utilized for a variety of use cases, such as location-based applications, personalization, and accurate address capture to improve delivery efficiency. In the pharma sector, we secured key wins in analytics use cases. These included business expansion planning, retail strategy, workforce automation, and customer location analytics. In BFSI also, we made significant progress.
Additionally, we secured key government wins, including transit and route mapping to support metro rail development in a capital city, GI solutions for the Clean Ganga mission, land records modernization for a state government, and, of course, the adoption, as Mr. Verma also mentioned, the adoption of our consumer products continued to rise steadily. I think that's an overview from my end.
Thank you, Sapna. I think now, Anmol, you can take it forward.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from question queue, you may press star and two. Participants, I request you to use handsets while asking your question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for the moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Anmol Garg from DAM Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thanks for the opportunity. A couple of questions. Firstly, so what has led to a sharp decline in the C&E business during this quarter? Is this just quarterly lumpiness, or there have been any structural changes? And also, I mean, do you expect the C&E revenue to come back in the coming quarters?
Answer is yes to both.
Right, sir. So, sir, by what extent do we expect this revenue to come back? Do we expect this revenue to come back to Q1 levels in Q3?
See, every quarter, there is something special. So going by this quarter-by-quarter itself is a challenge for us. We are building business for a long-term, three to five years on one side. The lowest denominator for our business, we say, is year. So this quarter-on-quarter, I think, I mean, we are not in a position to give you a clarity that this quarter what will happen, next quarter what will happen. It's a B2B business, okay? And we have an open order book, which Sapna talked about, and that order book is quite healthy. And part of that order book may happen in Q4. Some of them might happen in Q3. Some of them might happen in Q2. Some of that might happen in Q1. It is all customer-defined.
Right, sir. Understood that. Sir, we don't expect any impact of Google in our C&E business, right?
No, no, there's no impact. If you're answering that very straight question, the answer is straight, no.
Understood, understood. Secondly, sir, if you can talk about the JV that you have signed with Hyundai. Now, will it provide maps to only Hyundai cars, or will it be open to other OEMs as well? And what kind of revenue can we expect from this JV going ahead in FY26?
Okay. I think if you see the presentation that we have shared with all of you, there is a page on that which talks about the foray into international markets. Okay? So this is the first time in the history of MapmyIndia where we have entered the international market. We have international customers, many of them, eight or 10 or 12 like that, but they are meant for the domestic market. This is the first time, and that's what we feel proud of, and it has been the hard work of the last 12 months. Our strategy has been always how to optimize our costs. Entering an international market, and at least I'm aware of many companies of our sizes, how difficult it has been for them and how much money they have burned.
Think about this, our model in which we have successfully joined hands with Hyundai, whereby our cost was not hardly, put it that way, other than travel related or some time here and there. Now, this JV has been formed with Hyundai, keeping in mind, first, Hyundai Kia itself has a captive JV, will have a captive customer of Hyundai Kia cars for the Southeast Asian countries, and that is what the JV will get straight benefit from a captive customer. What I mean by that is, because of the captive customer, they'll start earning revenue right away. Otherwise, when you build an international market, you know what you get into.
The model, to the extent I can talk about today, and as the time goes by, we can explain more and more, the revenue, ultimately, what will happen, we will get some part of the profit from JV to our bottom line, and JV will outsource the map-related activities to MapmyIndia, which will be a service we'll provide. The other part is Hyundai AutoEver is a software company. Then further, what it will do is, all these I'm talking first about automotive customers. All these automotive OEMs who we service in India for Indian markets, there will be an upsell to them about the Southeast Asian market also. Whoever in India sells to Southeast Asia the automotive OEM, we'll be able to offer them an additional solution for that market, and that will add further revenue for MapmyIndia. It's not limited to automotive OEM.
Even the large C&E company, which we have, whether e-commerce companies or otherwise, or examples like Apple and others of similar kind, they will also look forward to offering them beyond India maps to them, to the JV. So there is a huge, huge opportunity. We can't predict revenue exactly, but as the time goes by, things will fall in place, and you will start hearing the wins over there, and then you will know what kind of revenue we are getting. So we are very excited. We feel that this is a big change in our big change that this JV will bring to us. And with the big brother, I call Hyundai as a big brother for us.
We are entering the Southeast Asian market first through JV, and then JV will, in future, as of now, has planned to move to the MEA, Middle East, and Africa market too. This is our strategy going through JV formation. Did I answer?
Yes, sir. Sir, just one follow-up on this. Given that we have 40% stake in this JV, this will only add to our bottom line, but not on the top line, right?
Yeah, I told you that. But two more things I said. Let me repeat it for your benefit because it's a very interesting model. One is that JV will outsource for many other countries where they will partner with the local companies, but the local companies can provide the maps to the JV. However, the processing of that map, JV will be outsourcing to MapmyIndia. That's one revenue model. The second revenue model I said about example like whether in the C&E or the automotive OEMs in India who are our customers, we'll be giving them our solution to those companies, and that will be a revenue model for MapmyIndia. So it is not just the profit that we'll accumulate in our bottom line. The other two I just told you will hit our top line itself.
Understood. And just one last thing from my end before I join back in the queue. If you look at that one-digit growth, it has been at around 14% or so. So are we confident of achieving very strong growth in the second half so that we can be above 30% kind of growth, which will be required for achieving our guidance of INR 1,000 crores revenue by 2027-28?
Guidance, I have made in my commentary, my last line was that only, that we are pretty comfortable today with achieving our FY 2027-28 goal.
Understood, understood.
The future will happen, and what has happened today, already the JV, that is a sign for that.
Sure, sir. Understood, understood. I'll join back in the queue. Thank you so much, sir, for answering my question.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chandramouli Muthiah from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Good evening, and thank you for taking my questions. My first question is just trying to understand the cost movement this quarter. You mentioned that you have made a lot of investment for the long-term growth of the business this quarter. So it looks like there's a big pickup in raw material costs because of the IoT hardware business. Utopia has been fully funded. So just trying to understand, this seems to be since we went public, since we've been getting your disclosures, financial disclosures, the first quarter where we've had YoY growth in top line, but YoY decline in EBITDA. So just trying to understand the factors within the gross margin and also the factors around the investment you've taken in the fixed costs and how to think about run rates around profitability going forward.
We're used to a 40%+ margin journey, but going forward, as we chase growth, where we should expect profitability for the company to settle out?
Okay. Let me address it in a very simple way. If we had been doing only map business, B2B, probably our profitability with the, you could have seen it rising to 60%, 70%. But it would not have helped us with the revenue growth target that we have tried to put on ourselves, INR 1,000 crore in FY 2027-28. So now, when you try to grow faster and you try to grow using other methods, allied businesses, there will be an area where that expense will be shared from, from the profitability of that map data business. So let's first talk about the IoT business itself. If I remove IoT business, you know how much the EBITDA will become, percentage-wise, margin percentage-wise, not margin absolute rupees-wise. Does that mean that we don't do IoT business? The answer is no.
We better do it and do it, keep doing it because it is one of the second pillars of our business. The third drone, as a third pillar, will it not require investment? The issue really is all these investments lead to booking it as an expense. They do not allow. Accounting standards do not allow us to capitalize them. Now, the fourth category, consumer business. From nowhere, in the last two years, and particularly last one year, we have reached from 10 million to 25 million downloads. That 25, if you ask me as of today, that number is almost like 28 million. How do we achieve? How are we doing it? Don't you think we are spending money in two parts?
One is some sort of advertising to either some sort of marketing expense and some sort of expenses on the cloud because these free apps do require cloud usage, which means a cloud expense. Now, again, the choice is ours. Choice could be ours. Not choice is ours. Choice could be ours, but we don't get into this consumer side. If that is a choice we want to follow, do you think we don't think? I'm not asking you. I'm telling myself. We don't think we are doing a good business. From nowhere to 28 million as of today, if we are able to achieve one day, and I'm not giving you the time frame, 100 million, can you imagine the impact of that would be on our overall business? So here is the dilemma. This dilemma we tried to address in board meeting today. I can share that.
We had a one and a half hour long discussion, and the board felt very comfortable, and they said, "Go ahead, you have the cash in your company. You go ahead with it and do your best to see that the consumer maps app grow as fast as possible." So, the statement that you made since listing our EBITDA has fallen, yes, it is for the future. We are trying to do everything that will help us in FY 27-28 and beyond that. We are building a business.
Got it. That's helpful. Just as a follow-up to that, just trying to understand, will you be able to? I think last quarter you had sized out how there was an increase in surveying expenses and outsourcing expenses. So just want to understand, will you be able to size out, I think, the three or four meaningful investments you've made? Just first to understand what is the size of the investment you're making that you are actually taking the hit on the P&L?
You mean investments in other companies? Is that what your question is?
No, I think the investments that you're making in the consumer business, the drone business, the IoT business, all those three to four long-term pillars on which you're making investments, if you're able to size out what the investment we made maybe in crores this quarter.
I can tell you. The consumer, I just said now, that having, let's say, spent as an expense of INR 5 crore this quarter has led to a jump to 28 or 25 million consumer downloads. Okay? So that's an investment. Investment could be either capitalized or it could be expensed. We are expensing them, not capitalizing them. The second part in IoT, you can see the trend. IoT, from a negative EBITDA, when we started, it has risen to almost like, I don't know, 12% or 14%, something like that. 14%. Okay? So the investment we are making is in terms of pushing hardware devices into the market so that we get SaaS revenue. And that pushing that SaaS, I've just observed.
I don't know how much correct I am, but I've observed that some of the companies are not showing it under the sale of revenue this way. They are showing revenue of devices as subscription and the cost of devices as marketing expense. I mean, this is what in the telematics business, I'm observing that. But that doesn't matter. We are just showing the way it is. So that's an investment. Drone. We have manufactured five drones already, giving the three drones for government certification. This is on one side to make sure that we have our in-house capability for drone so that the drones can be made in the manner a customer's requirement may be instead of shopping around in this market.
And the second part is we have done a couple of work already with both government and non-government customers where we have started providing drone as a service, which has reflected into the revenue. This is the best answer I can give you, Chandramouli Muthiah.
Got it. That's helpful. And just last question is around the Hyundai Kia contract. Congratulations on the ramp-up there. So just want to understand versus the business that we've been doing on Hyundai Kia over the past five to 10 years. Could you just tell us this new contract, what is maybe the incremental business? Is it INR 5 crores per quarter, INR 10 crores per quarter? Just trying to understand that as we get the first full quarter benefit next quarter on this.
The two are independent. We have a direct contract which we shared worth around close to INR 400 crores contract over five years. I think we have already shared that in the last quarter earnings call. Okay? It has nothing to do with JV. So that if you take INR 400 crores over five years, it's an INR 80 crore a year. If you further want to just do a simple math, it's a INR 20 crore per quarter on an average. So that answers your question on that?
Just trying to understand the INR 20 crore per quarter. What was this?
On average because you know some quarter it will be more, some quarter it will be less. INR 400 crores also I divided by 5 to say that it is INR 80 crores a year. Okay?
So just last clarification on this. I'm just trying keeping the JV aside, just looking at the existing Hyundai-Kia domestic business, the INR 400 crore business, INR 20 crore.
This is the Hyundai Kia domestic business I'm talking about for us. Nothing to do with JV.
Correct, correct. So just trying to understand before the domestic contract was announced, this INR 400 crore, the old Hyundai Kia business that we had, was that at a 5 crore per quarter, INR 10 crore per quarter run rate, and now we have INR 20 crore per quarter? I'm just trying to understand that jump.
It's INR 10 crore. I'm asking Sapna. Okay, so it was around INR 5 crore- INR 6 crores a quarter.
That's jumping to 20 on average.
Yeah, but this has started only from September. The revenue has started only from September, remember. We had expected earlier that it will start from April. It got delayed, but finally it has started from September.
Got it. That's helpful. Thank you very much and all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of [Gemmy Gulli] from Alchemy Capital Management. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. But I do understand you have already mentioned the slowdown in the reasons behind the slowdown in the consumer tech. But sir, even if I and we do understand the prerogative that this business cannot be looked at on a Q1, Q2 basis. But even on a two-year CAGR basis, if I were to look at the growth, the growth has fallen down to 7% on a two-year CAGR basis for this particular piece. So if you can and we have highlighted in the presentation that there were certain challenges. If you can highlight what exactly are those challenges that we face? Is it that the use cases that should be increasing are probably slowing down? Maybe the customers are taking a bit more time. So what exactly is happening there?
On the marketing expenses, on the margins, over the last four quarters, we've spent about INR 15 crore- INR 16 crore on marketing. We've already been doing that expense over a period of time.
No, I don't think. Your numbers are not right. We have not been doing INR 15 crores.
I'm talking cumulatively, sir, on.
No, no. I'm talking for the whole year also. It was not INR 15 crores last year. I can tell you right now. How much? I can tell you. It was not INR 15 crores even for the whole year last year.
So sir, the point that I was trying to make over here is that given the fact that we've been spending the.
For the full year. It was nine. And this year it is already close to seven in half year.
Yeah. So the spending intensity already has been high historically. So what has transpired now that the spending has to accelerate? And will it directly have a positive impact on the C&E segment? Will it help it grow better?
I think our marketing expense is to do with the consumer app. I don't think our marketing spend for C&E or A&M is a lot. It might not be more than I'm making a guess. May not be more than INR 3 crores in a year.
Okay. So sir, on the consumer app, what are the long-term plans for monetization?
The standard, as you know, there are several ways. A lot of things come out. Like people had been asking what are the long-term plan for maps. So the consumer app, what I understand, we are sitting with a unique asset. No single Indian company has an app like Mappls app or Google Maps. No Indian company has it. Now, when you think about it, we are the leader in the country. Ignore Google for a minute, and we are the challengers to Google. And in spite of that, challenging and monolithic Google, we have reached 28 million downloads. So what is the advantage Google is getting from that 100 million if they have approximately I'm giving you a number. Aren't they getting a lot of advantages because of that? So the impact, if you're trying to get very specific, the impact would be on potential advertisement revenue.
Impact would be on more people liking our APIs because they will be convinced that our APIs are much better. Impact would be on automotive companies where they will see that Mappls app is so popular. So like that, it is a product, an asset that changes the people's behavior towards a brand and people's behavior towards accepting their products.
Sir, if you can answer the question around the consumer tech slowdown.
No, no. There's no slowdown.
I like it.
There's no slowdown. I said it in the beginning, I don't go by quarter by quarter.
No, no, sir. I'm talking on a two-year CAGR basis. Our revenue growth is about 7%. Now, that clearly does not do justice to the potential that we have and what we have done historically. So if you can just maybe, and even in the presentation, you've highlighted that there were certain challenges in the markets that we operate. If you can just put some more light on what exactly were those challenges, which led to this?
Last quarter, the challenges were simple. Just a second, give me. It's not 7%. Please do your math a bit. You'll find it out. Okay? But anyway, I'm not challenging your numbers. The challenges we talked about in the market, I hope you guys know better than me or us as a team, what was the result of the Q2 for most of these corporate worlds in general? If you look at the Q2 results for the corporate world, definitely it was not very good. This is my impression. So when the results of the customers we service, they are aware of what is impacting them. So there can be some slowdown that can get transferred to us also. That's what we have tried to write in our commentary. But it was not 7%. I think just do the calculation again, you'll understand.
All right. Thank you so much. All the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abhishek Kumar from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, good evening. Question again. Sorry to harp on the growth performance. I just first want to understand first half.
So can you speak a little louder, sir?
Yeah. Just a second. Let me transfer to it.
Hello. Is this better?
Yeah. So just wanted to again harp on the growth that we have seen. Clearly, the growth was slightly below what the street was expecting. So 13.5% growth in the first half year over year. Is this, as per your own initial expectation, or has it disappointed you also?
Okay. I think you have a good question. Actually, honestly speaking, we don't care whether it is a C&E or A&M. We just don't care. We care for what is our total business happening. I'm talking about even the short term, quarter by quarter also. We look at the total picture. It may happen that in a particular quarter, A&M might show a big jump. And in some quarters, C&E might show a big jump. I mean, I'm not predicting or I'm not giving you any guidance, but if you see a big jump in Q4 for C&E, don't be surprised.
Okay. No, that's very clear. So the only question why maybe so many participants have asked this is we have a very strong conviction in our FY 2027- 2028 guidance of INR 1,000 crores. But the first half, we are tracking much below the required rate. So is it I mean, it's difficult to understand, right, if there is a slowdown near term, but we have a conviction which is five years out.
Okay. Last year. Last year probably you attended our investor conference, correct? And we gave this guidance of INR 1,000 crores in 2027, 2028. That's also correct?
Yeah.
People like you did a backward calculation and said that every year it has to happen like this. That's also correct? Did we even know that a JV is in the offing? Did we even know that we are going to reach the international market? Now, in the last one year, good amount of focus on the management was a couple of things for the future, and the future was how do we enter the international market? What do we do with our consumer business? How do we efficiently operationalize IoT business? What do we do with drones? Now, if the impact of all that total in some quarters falls below your street expectation, if I may call, then if you are a long-term investor or an analyst looking at a long-term perspective, please consider these factors.
No, fair enough. Just that the end of, I mean, the current growth is significantly below the ask rate. So that's where the concern. But I take the point. The second question is I just want to understand maybe the construct of our order book, right? We give fixed pricing and we give volume projections. And when there is a slowdown, maybe in C&E business, but such a sharp slowdown in one particular quarter, is it the, I mean, my understanding is it's the fixed price contract which gets pushed out or maybe they're lumping it.
That doesn't get pushed out. Actually, as of today's order booking, if I can see, I find that Q1 and Q4 have much more weightage towards the fixed pricing, if you're trying to understand.
Okay. Maybe I didn't really get it. How is it? I mean, are there milestones which happen in Q1 and Q4?
Yes. Yes. Yes. That's exactly right. I'm talking about as of today's prevailing open orders. Next year, it might change. And so I'm making a very guarded statement that as of current order books, the fixed prices in C&E are more leaning towards Q1 and Q4.
Understood. Okay. Understood. My last question is on margins. So I think we have maintained earlier that 40% medium-term margin is what we aspire to.
Oh, no, no, no, no. I don't agree. Last year, we had given the guidance on margin, not for this year. Because this year, to tell you the truth, we have been out there debating how far do we move with the consumer business. Because if we do with the consumer business, it is an investment which is in the form of expense. And hence, we try to shy away from giving you any guidance for EBITDA for this financial year.
Okay. Sure. So the current level is what we should factor in for the rest of this year?
No, I think you should look at the current level is one way, and you should look at what great things have happened of the JV which builds the future and the consumer business that will build the future. I think you consider both together, not just a hardwired pack for this quarter and extrapolate that. I won't if I am an investor.
Got it. Got it. Thank you, sir, and all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of [Bhushan Sharfa. From VV, please go ahead.
Hello.
Yeah.
Am I audible?
Yes.
Thank you, Rakesh sir. First of all, let me introduce myself quickly. So my name is Bhushan Sharfa, and I am a proud retail investor in MapmyIndia. So this is the first time I'm attending this conference call. And thank you for the opportunity given to me for asking the question. So yeah, I will not ask multiple questions. So I can understand that ups and downs take place in the market and in the business also. So this quarter is not that much bad that everyone should start firing. So my straightforward question to you, we as MapmyIndia are doing the business in different segments, like selling of the maps and services into the A&M as well. And we have set up another company like ClarityX for analytical solutions.
So considering all these aspects, so my question to you is, I mean, what MapmyIndia can do in the longer term, like seven to 10 years from here? I'm not worried about the short term of three years. I am pretty much confident on you. The revenue guidance we have given, I am confident that we will fulfill that guidance. But from a retail investor perspective, I'm thinking a bit above a larger broad range. So can you please enlighten me if it is possible to give me a picture of where we can push ourselves in the next seven to 10 years of range? Thank you, sir, in advance for answering the question.
Thanks for encouraging. I hope you know that we are a technology company. I hope that's clear, right?
Yes. Yes. Yes. And I have a very good.
We are sitting with a unique asset, maps.
Yes.
A technology company trying to say that what will happen in 7-10 years is. I mean, it should be addressed. All that I can say that safely, if we continue to be a technology company, if I'm saying, and there's no reason not to believe that because for 25 years, we have been a technology company. A technology company's path while moving forward also keeps getting adjusted depending on now you hear all this AI so much. Now, interestingly, we have been using AI for the last five years in our own company for our maps analytics or so many things. But the interesting part is the AI companies will lead us. And they are the potential customers for us. Now, don't ask me how, but I'm giving you a heads-up.
So as the technology world is moving, the opportunities for MapMy India, on one side to use or develop technologies for that, as well as the use cases for our maps and IoT and others also get increased. The only statement I can simply make is we are proud that we have been in existence for 25 years so nicely. And we are proud that we feel very strongly that the next 25 years will also be there. When worldwide, the mapping companies got torn and they vanished after the arrival of Google, and here we are giving them a real good time.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay, sir. Thank you. That's it from me.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shobit Singhal from Anand Rathi. Please go ahead.
Thank you. So on the B2G side, what I see is that we are building two use cases. First is the travel commerce and the daily needs Mappls Mall. So how is the revenue share over here? And are we doing something like on booking basis? And on the travel also, I was seeing that we are giving some discounts as well. So how is the transaction happening over here? Just wanted to understand.
Okay. Let me put it slightly differently. First is our goal is to take the Mappls App from 27 million to an unknown million of our consumer base. The other thing that you are talking about are more R&D kind of a thing. Okay? So saying what is the transaction base, how the car rental, what kind of revenue we are sharing, or how much in the Mappls Mall we are sharing, or how much in the Mappls Travel we are sharing. These are not the things that we are talking about today. I think we'll talk about it a year later, not before a year.
Okay, but just wanted to understand what exactly are you trying to do on our B2C side?
B2C?
Yeah. B2C is Mappls App. So we are building the travel commerce. Now, I can see Mappls Mall. And so how is the opportunity size or how big is the opportunity size are we looking at going forward?
You know what? An entrepreneur or a company like ours experiments publicly to see what's happening, but our goal right now for the next one year is to focus on increasing the Mappls app downloads. The other things are on the side people are experimenting with, and good things will come out of it.
Okay. Thank you, sir.
There could be in-app advertising. The Mappls Gadgets are there which can go on an online subscription commission income from travel expenses. These are some of the ways that consumer business can think of monetizing the Mappls app.
Understood. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of [Shobhit Singhal] from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yes. Thank you for the opportunity. Hello, everyone.
Yeah, you are.
Sir, so typically, we see stronger H2 in C&E segment. So should we expect this is the order book that should be stronger? And if I understand you correctly, that H2 with C&E is a higher margin business. So it will help you in margin.
The voice is quite distorted.
Okay. Are you audible, sir?
You are audible, but the voice is very distorted.
The next question is from the line of Deepak from Sundaram Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Am I audible?
Yes.
Yes. Yeah. Sir, my question revolves around this JV which you have announced with Hyundai AutoEver. So sir, in India, it took us considerable time to build this map business with kind of detailing and precision we have on the routes. Now, we are trying to replicate the same in a foreign geography, right, with this JV partner. And you have also indicated that in FY 2026, you will start to rake in the revenues. So I was just thinking, would it be possible for you to quickly scale up that JV, given that the Indian business has taken so long to kind of achieve that level of proficiency? Is it that the JV partner is bringing something to the table for us to ramp up that quickly?
The last part you said is right. And the first part also you said is really correct. There's no way we can ramp up building maps of so many countries ourselves. I mean, we believe it's not possible too. But just like we never believed, and hence we never went to the international market, thinking that we can create a business in the international market on our own. But part one, if you think about Hyundai Kia has their cars all across the world, right? And by mixing or doing a combination between our Hyundai as a partner, we as a partner, we are a map specialist. And the third element of engaging local agencies is what is the underlying strategy to build the maps.
Okay. Got it. So can we.
Hyundai brings technology and customer access. We bring map-building experience.
Okay. So data will be sourced through these local partners or local agency, as you call it. And using your tech, you will develop what we have in India right now. And the technological part, some would be assisted by Hyundai.
More from the software side, Hyundai will bring in because Hyundai AutoEver is primarily a software company, whereas the mapping technology, we will bring in.
Okay. And sir, could you please elaborate this $4 million which you have outlined? When will we start investing this and exactly where these investments will be around this 32-odd crore number, $4 million?
If you go to JV, Hyundai AutoEver will bring in $6 million, making a total capital of $10 million. That will be with the JV. And then JV will be spending that amount. And we will invest it, I would say, probably this month itself.
Okay. So the investment will start from this month, and sir, can you just elaborate this? Where these investments are, means what is the outcome of this investment of this $10 million that we are trying to achieve?
The outcome is JV will build a business. The business will be built by JV with a strong participation between Hyundai and MapmyIndia. I think in the beginning, I probably explained something, the model, that JV will have the maps from the local partners. MapmyIndia will process it with the technology. And Hyundai software and the maps will together be given to those auto OEMs where Hyundai software is acceptable. If they want the MapmyIndia navigation software, they will take MapmyIndia software where they don't end customers like BYD or XYZ. The interesting thing is many of them in India, MG, BYD, they are using our software. So that will generate the revenue for us. And further, if the end customer likes somebody else's software, the JV will supply that also. But it is not only for auto OEM. Let me repeat.
This JV business or the maps that this JV will have can be given to many of the C&E customers of MapmyIndia, India today or otherwise.
Understood. So basically, the source code or the map development phase is where our capability is. But on the front end, it is the Hyundai AutoEver software which the client will see or the user will see as a user interface.
Maybe. When you.
Primarily for Hyundai Kia vehicles, they will see Hyundai AutoEver software. But for example, let's say BYD, as an example, they might see our software.
Got it. Got it. But sir, then wouldn't there be a conflict of interest? Because then let's say if BYD uses your software and you have AutoEver also using their own software, then you're competing against each other, right?
No, we're not. How will we be competing? Tell me. I didn't understand that.
Just now you explained, in BYD, the software can be something else apart from Hyundai AutoEver, right? AutoEver. So if that software is kind of provided by us, then aren't we kind of.
Provided by us to JV.
Through the JV.
Right.
Okay. Then we will not operate independently. Hyundai AutoEver will not operate independently. Both of us have to pull in our technologies, our resources, and money is already pulled in. And the end customer will be a customer of JV. Okay. Okay. Got it, sir. Thank you for all the clarifications. All the best.
Thank you. The last question is from the line of [Shobhit Singhal] from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
So thanks for the opportunity. Sir, C&E segment, should we expect normal season? H2 is always heavy. So should we expect H2 to be heavier for C&E segment? That is one question. Second, how should I think of the margins? Obviously, now we are at 36%-37% EBITDA margin. Should we think this is the new level of EBITDA margin for us, or should we expect this margin to recover in H2, or when do we expect this to recover?
I mean, yes, H2 is heavy. That I can certainly say. Margin, I would never like to comment because we have not given the guidance for the margin at all for this financial year.
This business is.
H1 margin is 39.3%. Okay?
Correct.
Right. Which is close to what many of you believe that we have given you guidance of 40%, right?
Okay.
So it is very close to that.
Okay. So H2, obviously, with the revenue growth, we should see that. I mean, that's my assumption. Now, on Hyundai Kia, should we think that JV's margins would be higher than our own company-level margin? Because we don't have to do S&M, right? We don't have to do sales marketing, etc. So how should I think of the margins of JV?
JV's margin, I'm not looking at it. That is JV management.
Okay. Got it. And just one clarification for CFO, EV sales in auto is already covered in Q2 numbers, or it is something we get in Q3 normally?
Sorry. The question is not clear. Can you please ask your question again?
So basically, on an OEM level, there is a stocking of vehicles for the first season, right? That's the higher volume quarter. So is it already captured in Q3, or sorry, is it already captured in Q2, or will it come in Q3 for us?
See, this festive rise in volume, that's typically explained between Q2 and Q3.
Okay. Okay. Thanks, sir. That's it. Thank you.
Thank you. That was the last question for the day. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you for listening to us. And I really appreciate all the different questions that came up. And we are excited to say that there's something always a game changer. That game changer happened right now with this joint venture. I hope there can be more game changers if we are able to change this 28 million consumers to 100 million consumers. That will be another big game changer. Like that, from time to time, you will see the game changers. And some of the game changers might have an impact or the benefit that we might get is immediate. Some of the game changers, you will see the benefit will come later. But overall, when we look at three to five years, I'm not talking about 2027- 2028, we always have a time horizon of three to five years when we do any serious thing for the future.
Not seven years, but three to five years is always our time horizon. And we work towards that goal. So if you believe what we are doing, including the consumer thing, then please be rest assured we are going on the right track. It's not the EBITDA. It's not the fact that a byproduct of when you do good business. Thank you so much.
Thank you. On behalf of DAM Capital Advisors, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.
Thank you all.