Ladies and gentlemen, good day, welcome to MapmyIndia's Q1 FY 2024 earnings conference call, hosted by Anand Rathi Shares and Stock Brokers. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Shobit Singhal from Anand Rathi Shares and Stock Brokers. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Carol. Good morning, everyone. On behalf of Anand Rathi, we welcome you all to Q1 FY 2024 conference call of C.E. Info Systems or MapmyIndia. We have with us today Mr. Rakesh Verma, Co-founder and Chairman of the company, Mr. Rohan Verma, CEO and Executive Director of the company, Mr. Anuj Jain, CFO, and Mr. Saurabh Somani, Company Secretary and Compliance Officer of the company. I will now hand over the call to Mr. Rakesh Verma for his opening remarks. Post that, we will open the floor for Q&A session. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Shobit, and this is Rakesh Verma. Good morning to everybody. Well, I think I will keep it very short so that more questions and answers can be taken care of by us. The Q1 quarter has been a very strong performer. Year-on-year, the revenue growth was broad-based, with both A&M up 24% and C&E up 51%. If you see, we are delighted that our Q1 FY 2024 results wherein MapmyIndia achieved all-time highs in revenue, EBITDA and PAT. EBITDA margin was strong for Mappls business at 54%. Even IoT-led business, the EBITDA margin continued to expand quarterly and was at 6.3%, as against 4.0% of the last year.
This is all because the SaaS income, as we have been talking in the past, has started taking, has started growing. Q1 FY 2024, PAT also reached an all-time high of INR 32 crore, growing at 32.2% year-on-year. During fiscal year 2024, we outlined a 5-year vision of a growth, growth roadmap for the company and are putting in place the requisite foundations that will drive the long-term success of the company. We are also delighted with the surge in interest and usage of our consumer-facing Mappls MapmyIndia app amongst users, which resulted in c becoming the top app in the App Store recently.
This bodes well for the B2C future of the company, in addition to it supporting our B2B and B2B2C revenues in times to come, where we have been traditionally strong, for all these years. With this, initial remarks, I would also like to add a bit on the Mappls and IoT-led business of ours. If you look at the Mappls and IoT-led business of ours, the very quick statement that I would like to make is the revenue from operations, while the total revenue from operations has been INR 89.4, the Mappls has been INR 66.6, and the IoT-led business has given us INR 22.8.
The EBITDA, while the overall gave us EBITDA margin of 41.9%, the Mappls gave, gave us 54.1%, and the IoT-led gave us 6.3%, compared to 4.0% in Q4 2023. You, this is pretty much in line with what we have been, talking to the investors, how our IoT-led business will keep gradually growing, not only the revenue side, but also on the margin side. Rohan, can you now talk, more on this?
Great. Thanks a lot, everybody, for joining the call. As Mr. Verma said, it's been a good quarter. Year-on-year revenue growth was broad-based. A&M, Automotive and Mobility Tech, was up 24%, and C&E, Consumer Tech and Enterprise Digital Transformation, was up 51%. Our A&M revenue, especially automotive OEM volume, this continues to grow faster than the industry's single-digit volume growth. In that sense, we are happy that we are out pacing that growth of industry volume. Bunch of, you know, wins in A&M across two-wheeler EVs. Bunch of key go lives happened, like Hero MotoCorp, which is one of the largest, if not the largest, two-wheeler company.
The new Harley-Davidson comes built in with MapmyIndia, and the flagship Hero companion app also is coming with us, as well as some new premium Ultraviolette EV bikes, you know, went live. Then, of course, our...... you know, bunch of fleets, including schools, went live with our IoT solutions, and even the offline distribution of Mappls Gadgets is expanding. On the consumer tech side, we're quite happy that, you know, a lot of consumer face-facing tech companies, large e-commerce players, B2C brands, food delivery companies, travel commerce guys, they're all starting to use our API for improving their delivery address capture for improved efficiency, and this is because our maps are more detailed and accurate.
A lot of the ONDC-enabled apps now are starting to use MapmyIndia, and that means that we have a play in the increasing ONDC ecosystem, the Open Network Digital Commerce ecosystem. As well as corporates across industry sectors, be it BFSI, energy, consumer durables, they're all using our digital transformation platform for workforce management, geospatial analytics. The government business also continues to grow across maps, IoT, and drones. Specifically on IoT, also video telematics, you know, used by large metal companies or upselling of more use cases with, for example, a large cement company. All this is taking place. As Mr. Verma said, our Mappls App, which is consumer-facing, I think more and more people are realizing the benefits of it and the quality of our maps.
For example, we give these 3D junction views, which help people figure out whether they have to climb the flyover or not, and that saves them 15, 20 minutes time, for example, on a trip. Or getting the trip costs, like toll or fuel, which helps them be more cost efficient, or safety alerts, such as current speed limits or speed breakers or sharp curves while they're navigating. Now, this means that more people are using our Mappls App, but also this starts to showcase the power of our maps and our solutions, software, to the enterprise customers across automotive and corporate and government. So the knock-on effect of increased B2C usage, you know, is, it will show up in the B2B and B2B2C business as well. That, that's, that's what we hope.
Of course, our B2C gadgets are doing well. With that, I'll kind of conclude my opening remarks, and we can take questions from from the audience.
Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Shobit Singhal from Anand Rathi. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Congrats on a good set of numbers. I have 2 questions. Since the last two quarters, our C&E is showing good growth, and its contribution has increased than A&M segment now. How do you see this growth going forward in C&E segment? Also, how our solutions are used on ONDC ecosystem? This is the first question.
Yeah, for us, you know, it's our business growth, we look at it as a combination of A&M and C&E. The specific contribution of one versus the others is, is on a quarter-on-quarter basis, is not something we look at. Our objective is to grow our business across the board. In that sense, we are happy with both, both sides, our Automotive and Mobility Tech and Consumer Tech and Enterprise Digital Transformation. Specific to ONDC, actually, there are a ton of use cases which can make ONDC-based commerce and commerce players much more competitive, you know, from a cost efficiency point of view, as well as a customer experience point of view, and that's why they should be using, MapmyIndia.
Now, what is happening is, you know, the biggest pain point that these days people face is when they have to put in an address, a residential address, and get goods delivered or food or goods delivered there. When they type in, for example, a Google Maps API, which powers a bunch of consumer's delivery apps, then they are not able to put that house address. The delivery guy has to keep calling, "Where to come? Go to the backside," or it takes some extra time for that, that person. With using MapmyIndia's APIs, that delivery address captures accurately and navigable to the front door, is what we enable. The second is when navigating, you know, these delivery riders or delivery vehicles, the drivers, riders are typically, a lot of churn is happening there, and they're new to the cities.
They don't know the lanes. Like I said, in Mappls App, when these junction views, speed limits, speed breakers, trip costs, toll costs, all of that is there. People are able to navigate safely and more efficiently, cost effectively. In the delivery segment or logistics segment, this has a strong impact on profitability of these companies as well as the customer experience. That's where ONDC-related folks who, you know, are coming with a fresh mindset of reimagining commerce, are able to work with us without those legacy baggages or legacy tech systems. We believe this is a moment to create new commerce in the country based on better, more accurate maps than the legacy Google system, and that's where we are also having a lot of initiative and joint collaboration with ONDC. That's the exciting thing.
...my second question is, on July month, automobiles sales growth have been very strong. How do you see growth for A&M segment for the year?
Yeah, I mean, we'll be, we'll be in line with or above in industry growth. I mean, that's, it's a pretty steady, steady business. As more and more also new platforms go live in the next year, especially the large EV platforms, then we'll see some even more uptake. It's a steady state right now, and we're on track for, you know, what we want to achieve over the full years. I don't want to go quarterly. I mean, I request everybody to look at MapmyIndia from a year-to-date, year-on-year point of view, and in that sense, we are on track for the year.
Okay, sir. Thank you. That's all from my side.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sampath Nayak, from Tiger Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Good morning, sir. Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations for the good set of numbers. I have basically two questions. One question is on growth trend. We are talking of good growth. Can you tell me where this growth is coming from, and how are we poised for FY 2024 and 2025?
The growth is coming from across our market segments and across our products. Okay, this is automotive OEMs, mobility fleets, logistics fleets, consumer tech companies, traditional corporates, you know, government. It's broad-based. In every segment we have. We have a large order, open order book, as you know, at the beginning of the year it was INR 918 crore. As we deliver on that order book, our revenues start happening. Plus, we've added a bunch of customers. In the last year, you know, the number went up to 850+ from 600, so about 250+ customers were added. As those customers ramp up, you know, our MapSaaS, PaaS, revenue starts going up.
What we've kind of said is, you know, we did the analyst and investor day, and we put up the presentation back in June. There is a path that we see towards crossing the milestone of INR 1,000+ crore revenue in the next 4-5 years. You know, and for the, this, coming years, we're anyways planning for a 40% type of growth, 40%+ type of growth. We'll, so we are on track right now, and we'll see, we'll see how that develops or, you know, builds up by the end of the year.
Great, sir. Thank you. My second question is regarding drone business. In a previous call you said you are venturing into drone business. Can you tell me about what exactly, what kind of services you're into, whether into manufacturing or software or services, and also the total addressable market of this segment?
Yeah. See, in drones, what we have positioned ourselves in the, in the market is we are a full stack solutions provider. We can supply drones to customers who need drones. We can also provide services based on drones or solutions based on drones, meaning that we can fly the drones on behalf of our customers, acquire data, analyze that data, and deliver them the relevant output. Also, we are systems integrators, where, where drone is just one part of the solution. Of course, you know, we are strong capital base, strong, you know, credentials as a company. So in that sense, we are better off than the, than the many small players in the market, as well as people who have, are only pure play, drone providers.
As well as, and because we have a lot of our own products and platforms that customers need. Of course, the, the, the market segments it's going into is mapping and survey. You know, the country is doing this big exercise around SVAMITVA and other kinds of, you know, survey and 3D mapping. We are participating in that, even for smart cities or, you know, or state level governance projects. Even on the private sector side, you know, whether it's manufacturing or energy, companies which want, you know, drone-based mapping done. There'll be more use cases that will build up, as time comes, as we expand our, kind of, product portfolio organically and in conjunction with our inorganic investments that, that we have been making. It's a large addressable market.
I think people, people have talked about it enough in the market, and we believe that we can participate in it, nicely, and strongly in the time to come.
Just 1 follow-up question. How many, what is the revenue that we have clocked so far, and where do we see ourselves in next 2-3 years in this segment?
We've not broken out segment-wise, this drone segment. It is something that we've talked about as a third pillar for the company in the times to come. At the right time, we'll talk about it, but right now we don't separate it out as a segment.
Sure, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amarnath Bakut from Ministry of Finance of Oman. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Same, congratulations for a fantastic set of number and walking the talk as well, that what you are saying is delivering. That's very nice to see. I have 2 set of questions. First of all, this 30-35% growth for the next 3-4 years as per your business plan, how it would be the mix of that growth? Means, it would be mostly from the map side or mostly from your IoT side. The very purpose of asking this question is, as you know, that your margin for the map side is quite higher compared to on the IoT side. So if the revenue growth comes more from the other side, the second side, it could have the impact on the overall margin and return on capital employed.
Can you please guide us a little bit, this growth which is coming, how the ballpark ratio between this map and IoT services related, and how the margin will look like? We don't need a guidance, but considering the margin at the moment, 40%-41%, something like that, will it be maintained something like that, or it will also have an impact?
Okay, let me try-- let me attempt to answer your question. You have a very valid question. There are a few things, people go by perception. If you think about it, how many companies even have a 50% margin on map business worldwide? Probably no one. Similarly, if you're thinking that the IoT-led business will be, since it's hardware driven, so it might have a very low margin. A drone business probably is still not fully understood in the marketplace, so the similar perception may happen. So why I said all this, is how you create solutions to solve the problems in the marketplace, what you do, and what is that execution method you follow, has been the secret sauce of MapmyIndia's success so far. And there's no reason why that secret sauce will not continue.
In short, I can assure you, be it IoT, be it drone, or be it map, we look at all of them together as three pillars of the company, and then we try to see how the overall business growth happens.
Yeah, I got your point, sir. I'm just trying to understand, overall, considering the business mix you are thinking, whether IoT, drone or all, how the margin picture will look like? I mean, because finally it end up into the margin picture. As you just now said, you are one of the probably one that who is getting that kind of a margin, 40%-41%. Eventually, that kind of a margin will attract serious competition, either nationally or internationally. To protect that margin, I don't know what kind of a moat we have that the others cannot do that, and we can continue to have that margin. I'm just trying to gauge the things. At the moment, what you are doing, something very unique.
Going forward, considering your growth and the huge amounts of the margin and return on capital employed, surely it will attract the different kind of an competition. I'm just trying to gauge the thing, that we are only getting the guidance about the revenue, but we are not getting a sense how the things will go around, considering the current situation, which is very fluffy.
Yeah. I mean, you talked just about moat and related to that margin question. I'll just say that, look, it's not easy to build a map data product at the scale that we have been able to build, which is covering the entire country, and we are not stopping just here. The business that we have built definitely has a very strong moat. It's not replicable by just capital that anybody else can potentially deploy. The amount of IP or intellectual capital that has gone in and the time investment, and then this ability to create so many use cases and so many products that we have created, which then usage of which further enhances the map. I mean, there is nobody else that has this ability. Of course, people will come in and try.
They have in the past also. I mean, since MapmyIndia has been in business, which means since 95, there have been GIS companies, there have been people who've tried to build data products. I mean, and the big ones, not just the small ones, they have not been able to manage it. What we are doing now, is we are making significant further investments in further advancing the maps, what we are calling this 4D HD Digital Map Twin. That's why this drones and IoT is playing an important role in getting us towards the next set of advanced map data products.
On the software side, we are covering various market segments, Automotive and Mobility, through N-CASE and logistics SaaS, including hardware and on the Consumer Tech, a whole range of APIs, so that to enable any consumer tech company, and then a full-fledged digital transformation platform for enterprises. In that sense, we are shoring up our moat and trying to expand it further, and that will keep us differentiated in the market. Look, our objective is to grow our profits, okay. On the 4 and 5-year time horizon, we see a very large revenue that is coming up, a milestone that we will hit. We are focused on that. What Mr. Verma said, our DNA of execution is to make sure that we are capital efficient.
It would-- whatever the other players may do or not do, if our products are strong, we continue to innovate and we execute efficiently, I think we'll be in a good position. Our objective with the investor day was to give a sense of use cases and revenue growth. We definitely did not want to focus that conversation on what the margin is. You'll see that build up in the next year or so, which will give you which might give you some analysis or confidence for the future.
Okay. My second set of questions, sir, would be your international part of the business. In your presentation, you said you already extended to 200 countries. I, I just want to know the growth from that international businesses, and is that business secure a similar kind of a margin, what you do in India? How, how do you project yourself on that international mapping thing? Compared to, you know, we have the, the, we have the Google in our plate always, you know. India, maybe you have a government protection in terms of using of the map, and the foreign companies can't really go to that detail, which the Indian company does, but that is not true for the international market. How do you-
No, I'll just, I'll, I'll definitely try to. India provides no government, government protection to MapmyIndia, okay? Google has been in the market and done freely what they wanted to do since 2007, 2008, and in fact, they have been the one which have taken advantage in some way or the other through the monopoly and, and, flouting whatever regulations there were. In, if anything, despite an unfair advantage, we have built up such a strong business in India, okay? The situation going forward into the future may be, may be different, but, if history is a track record, then we are winning based on our competitiveness and our innovation and our market execution or nothing else.
Now, when it comes to the international business, we have said since the IPO time, that this is a story that will develop in the next few years, and we are working hard towards that exactly. I don't have, I don't have numbers to tell you right now, and it is not, it is not part of the revenue estimation that we've given for this year. I can tell you that there are increasingly customers who are starting to take us for our international maps. We are actively building international maps for various geographies where we believe our customers are there. I mean, our existing customers are already there, and we are talking with them, expanding with them. That's an, that's a efficient way of expansion.
Again, all these international markets, given how we've been able to build a strong map data product in India using all sorts of technology, we will bring that to bear for these other countries, where actually there was some prior public mapping infrastructure already. In fact, in many countries, we are told that Google is not the preferred option or Google is not able to satisfy the market needs. India has taken a lead in the ways in which map, mapping is being used. That, combined with our software solutions, our IoT systems, our drone solutions, I think will position us well when we go stronger and stronger into those international markets. It's a story like consumer that you will see in the next couple of years develop.
Current year revenue projection does not include anything from the international. Anything comes out of that will be an addition to what you already projected?
I'm not trying to say that. I'm not trying to say that. I'm just giving you a sense that in this years, in this years, we are not, we have not. Somebody had asked me a question even a few quarters ago, that what will your international revenue be in FY 2024? I said, "Don't count on that. We are focused on executing." I mean, so I'm not giving any new revenue, kind of, picture from what we, what we, gave in the June, June investor and.
I think just, please understand that we have given, talked about in analyst meet our roadmap to INR 1,000 crore. Every revenue from which country and which place, definitely we have not talked. This year, definitely we are saying that our growth is designed and supposed to happen from the India story only.
Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you for your patience and time, sir. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Before we take the next question, I'd like to remind participants to please limit your question to two per participants only. You may rejoin the question queue if you have a follow-up. The next question is from the line of Anmol Garg from DAM Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, hi, guys. congratulations on good set of numbers, and thanks for the opportunity. I have a couple of questions. Firstly, we have seen a strong growth in the IT business this time, both sequentially on a year-over-year basis. Just wanted to correlate that with the cost of materials, which actually has seen a bit of a dip if you look at on a sequential basis. Would that mean that a large part of the IT business would have come from renting the devices rather than sale of the devices or anything like that? How should we correlate on the same?
Anmol, look at our business on a year-on-year basis, please. We don't do this quarter-on-quarter. Year-on-year, cost of material has gone up, okay? ...Of course, we have also seen our IoT business margins c- continue to expand. We, we won't, I mean, just, yeah, that's it.
Okay. Okay, sure. Secondly, just wanted to understand the B2C part of the business as well. Currently, as you guys have said, that you are not generating any revenue over there, but that app is gaining a lot of traction. Any plans to monetize the app in any way in near medium-term to long-term as well?
Yeah, for now, we want everybody to start downloading and, I mean, the Mappls App. What we are liking is, you know, people are loving the app. They are telling each other to download it because it helps them. Obviously, you know, there is a, there is a knock-on effect on B2B and B2B2C. As I said, you know, the more people who use Mappls App, the more it helps our, our business in general. That's what is there. Of course, you know, over time, there, there are n number of ways of monetizing a consumer business. Again, it's not something we wanna talk about right now. Our focus is, if you all can also... I mean, say, I'm saying this tongue in cheek, if you all can also get more people to download the Mappls App, it'll help you, it'll help us.
Sure. Sure. Lastly, one thing from my end, is it possible to give a breakup of the IoT business between auto and team? Basically, what I wanted to understand is the growth in the auto business, particularly in the map business, out there. Also the realizations, if you can talk about, given that you have been talking about, that more and more EVs are coming, coming up in the auto business.
What was the last part you asked? Realization, EV, just missed the second.
What, what I wanted to also understand is on the realization or the pricing part, in the auto map business, given that more and more EVs are coming up, in, in that business as your customer.
Yeah, IoT business goes into both A&M and C&E as well, okay? The automotive business, you know, is definitely growing faster than the industry kind of volume growth. I mean, there's more uptake of our solutions. You know, overall, if I look at automotive, four-wheeler, two-wheeler, CV, et cetera, I mean, across the four-wheeler and two-wheeler, we are growing well. EVs, if, you know, all the new EV launches, most, at least, if not all, most of them, are going built in with our solutions. You saw the XUV400, which went live, the MG bunch of EVs, which have gone live, and there are large EV programs that are gonna go, you know, live, in the next years and two years. If you look at the automotive OEM roadmap, they also are talking about it.
Obviously, that's gonna be a great kind of outcome for us, or good outcome. I shouldn't, I mean, it's because EVs have more use cases for MapmyIndia, like range, addressing your range anxiety or giving battery efficient routes. Along with EV, even ADAS is happening where, you know, maps are playing a important role. I would say that we are happy with our automotive business. You know, it, it gives us a lot of confidence in the long term as well, because the connected vehicle journey really started in the last, you know, 2 years. Our IPO year, 2021, is when the first green shoots of connected vehicles started to come from the OEMs.
Once connected vehicles have started to come with their next generations of platforms, the use cases for us have expanded. This is definitely a medium and long-term story, and that's why we are happy about it. We are seeing more and more EV connected and ADAS vehicles, and even mobility as a service starting to kick in, which will have good medium and long-term impact on automotive.
Okay. Okay, sure. Yeah, that's it from my end. Thank, thanks for the time.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mohit Motwani from Nuvama. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity, and congratulations on good set of numbers. My first question is around that, can you give us some sense on the number of IoT devices sold for the quarter? So good to see that, you know, the IoT margin has expanded quarter-on-quarter, but just wanted to understand then how many devices were sold.
See, we, we, we talk about the IoT device, volume, on a yearly basis. I can just say that we're on track. It's going well. It's going well, but specific numbers we'll share at end of the year.
So is it, like, fair to understand that, you know, as your SaaS income has started, you know, kicking in with the 1.9 lakh devices sold in last year, FY 2023, these margins should continue to see an improvement going forward?
Yeah, I mean, yeah. Look at our business year-on-year, is what I'll always say. It'll give you, I mean, it'll give you more reliable analysis. In that sense, yes, there's, I mean, what you have seen first 9 months, I think, of IoT business, it was roughly something like 0, but then in Q4, it went to 4. It's 6.3 right now. I may have got that 9 months number wrong, but it's gone from 4% to 6.3%. We will continue to see gradual increase. That's our endeavor to have the operating leverage, and the SaaS income kicking in, have a good impact on IoT business. Of course, you know, you have to.
tally that against growth also that we wanna drive, because it's pretty large market. We have some internal kind of, you know, calibrations on where we want to see that.
Sure, that's helpful. One other question is on, you know, can you give us some, you know, color on the geospatial analytics solutions that went live during the quarter? Not naming any customer per se, but just, you know, any of the solutions that could have, you know, gone live during the quarter.
Yeah. See, when it comes to this geospatial analytics, customers, for example, are on a retail expansion spree, or, you know, they're looking at their retail network and distribution. For that, what MapmyIndia does is tell them by whether rural or urban, by area, in fact, down to a square kilometer or half a square kilometer grid in urban, as and in rural, down to village level, and then on across highways or roads, you know, at a very granular level, we can give them geo-demographics. Which that, as well as our analytics platform, that allows them to kind of correlate their first-party data, their own sales data or competitor information, or data that we give about the market, and come up with the analysis where to set up retail outlets is just one of the examples.
There's in fact many more use cases that they have for us, and we try to elucidate that in our investor and analyst day as well. Whether it's banks or it's, you know, energy retail companies, or it's, you know, QSR companies, or it is footwear companies, many of them are also publicly listed themselves, or it is fintech companies, you know, they're all using our geospatial analytics for. You know, one example is, you know, negative area for credit risk assessment or our credit risk assessment or our go, no-go decisions on, on loans based on, you know, the area profiling from where a person is, you know, applying for a loan. Hopefully that gives you some color on geospatial analytics.
Sure. These solutions would be falling mostly in the consumer enterprise tech space, right? In that segment, right?
Yeah. I mean, automotive customers also do geospatial analytics, and mobility customers also do geospatial analytics. I mean, they are also enterprises in that, right? You are right, broadly.
Sure. That's all helpful. Thank you so much for answering my questions.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Chandra from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. My, another question is on the IoT-led business. Here we are seeing some strong growth. If I see another major component of the revenue is sale of hardware. If you can clarify, is the sale of hardware just a pass-through? If I see the services revenue, the EBITDA margins on... If I take the net revenue, the EBITDA margins is around 18%-19% on this, on the, on the services part of IoT. How do you see that moving?
I mean, it's not pass-through, and the impact of SaaS income takes time, as we've talked before. You know, it's a complex calculation, not easily explained and probably not easily analyzable, because there's so many different hardware which have different kind of SaaS components, et cetera. In general, what happens is the hardware is not-- it's not a pass-through. The hardware will generate in future, SaaS income, as the, you know, as they continue to subscribe to the service. That's why you're seeing a gradual increase in the, you know, in the, in the, in the margins. You know... again, like I said, it depends also, you know, how aggressively we push the hardwares into the market.
As the SaaS component increases, you know, the sale of hardware also includes some SaaS. As we scale up, just want to try to understand is that when we gain scale, can this margin expand, or is it, you know, is it going to be at the same level? Because generally, SaaS assignments will have very high margins.
See, a couple of ways the solutions are given to the customer. One may be given as hardware with built-in SaaS, so that is known where the entire margin is a combination of the 2. The other one solution could be where hardware is given earlier and the SaaS model kicks off later. That's what Rohan was trying to explain, that it becomes a little complex. First is, who the customer is coming, why we are doing it? All these things, if you are trying to understand the IoT... That's why we are trying to help you with understanding our IoT-led business, where it went up from 4% margin to 6% margin, and we see a nice growth in happening over the quarters or the years to come.
Certain-- Then, you know, one more thing, overall, try to understand the three pillars work in tandem, the drone, the IoT, and the map. They work in tandem. It's, there are companies who are just in IoT business, there are companies who are just in drone business, there are companies who are just in map business. One of the things probably to understand our uniqueness is... at least I'm not aware, but, probably there is hardly anyone who has tried to combine the power of these three pillars together to create a business where the use cases are becoming enormous.
Okay. Okay. Sir, in terms of the, you know, opportunity, that you have, you know, like, shown in Analyst Day also. In terms of, the major part of the opportunity is from the government and the mobility, you know, segment. In our revenue, you know, as of, as of now, how much revenue would we be getting from government and mobility?
n that, it's in the approximate, so that's government and mobility. I mean, we talked about IoT, yeah. So it's, I mean, these are relatively small contributors to the overall business.
Okay. the, I know the government and mobility business will, I know, could be included in the platform and IoT side?
It depends. You, you can't, those are products. Map and data, and platform, and IoT are product cuts on our business. A&M and C&E are, market cuts on our business. You can't say that one market segment goes on or, or focuses only on one product. It's for every customer of ours, we have multiple use cases based on multiple products.
Okay. Okay, sir, thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Satadru Chakraborty from Chakraborty Family Office. Please go ahead.
Hello, good morning. Let me start first with something in the P&L statement. In the consolidated P&L statement, I see technical services outsourcing, that line is shooting through the roof, almost so that it is more than last year's full year's results. Can you give us a bit more flavor on what that is, and how should we look at it in the future?
Okay. Good point. If, I hope you're, I think you are looking at the consolidated financials, right?
I mean, it doesn't matter. Both in standalone and consolidated, I see the numbers are really 4x.
Yeah.
That's what I see.
One is, what is this technical services outsourced in the consolidated? It is outsourced to our subsidiary when it comes to the IoT part is concerned for any of the items. That's one. The second is, also when we try to use the services from outside temporary workers or otherwise, in order to collect data and items like that. Third is, Anuj? These are the two. These are the two? G2P. G2P and... G2P. Now if these are going up, that means two things are happening. One is we are building and spending more money on the, as part of in, internal, internal creation of the maps and all that. The second is definitely for certain lev- deliveries, revenues.
If our subsidiary is doing the work, then naturally they will bill the parent, but in the consolidated now, it becomes the total amount. I will, I will just add to what Mr. Verma is saying. As our map business or map products, you know, creation increases and even our IoT business increases, this is one of the costs that is, that is going up. I mean, compare that to the fixed cost, which is pretty stable, the employee benefits. If you compare that and see the employee benefit hasn't gone up in that way.
Okay. Makes sense. My second question is on the C&E segment. I, I think you have made a lot of points in the presentation. They are all very well taken. I was initially thinking of asking you how the market is evolving, there are so many companies, I, I guess it is a very-
Hello? Hello.
Yes, sir.
Not able to hear the question.
We take the next question from the line of Godwin Fernandez. Please go ahead.
Thank you for taking my question. Sir, in a recent interview, we came across a statement regarding the work that we have been working for the defense industry. Normally, these defense companies would tend to tie up with an R&D, with DRDO and do development products. Are we into any of such projects like...? What are our prospects in defense industry? Thank you.
You know, our engagement with Defence is going well. We have one business from the Defence. We are in the middle of executing on that. Yeah. I mean, it's something that we believe will, will expand further in the coming time, because our products are quite well suited-... you know, not just from a technical, and definitely from a technical point of view, but also from the Atmanirbhar, Make in India, IGDM point of view. This is something that we see as an important area, where we'll do the strategic things, and we'll do the ones that are relevant to us, and then, you know, aligned, aligned to what our business objectives are.
Okay. My second question is, it is consumer and enterprising angle. We have clients like HDFC Bank, Bajaj Finance into our portfolio. Recently, a report from Morgan Stanley states that India per capita will be jumping around towards $2,500 within a span of around 6-7 years. The industry or the space that we are into is having huge, huge growth opportunities, considering the kind of clients we cater to. Sir, how do you assess? Still, I don't know what our clients are in the pipeline. Since we have these big shots who take extra care in getting this mapping data and using it, how do we see the other players coming into our mapping solutions? Thank you.
BFSI and Fintech is an important vertical. We have blue-chip customers there, and we are adding customers. You know, there are many, many players in BFSI and Fintech customer segment for us. We have blue-chip customers, and we are adding more and more, and we're expanding our use cases and usage with our existing customers. It's an interesting space to be in. You know, we're happy with... It's like automotive for us. We're doing, we're doing well there. I, I don't know about other companies like us and what they can do and can't do, but our, our, our part of maps, APIs, this digital transformation platforms in future, where relevant, IoT, et cetera, or drone-based data acquisition. I mean, there's a, there's a roadmap towards growth in BFSI and Fintech for us.
Okay. Thank you. That's it from my end.
Thank you. Before we take the next question, I'd like to remind participants to please limit your question to 2 per participant only. The next question is from the line of Bharat Sheth from Quest Investment. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you very much, excellent result. Sir, I want to get some sense that the pipeline which we have given, say, INR 25,000 crore. Can you give some kind of a break, I mean, directional, how much is, say, from our mapping business, B2C, B2B, and this mapping, IoT, and international, domestic? When do we really start seeing those converting and going ahead?
We had done this analyst and investor day in June exactly to kind of explain that. We put the presentation up on the stock exchange. It's quite detailed. I'll suggest you read through it. You'll get more details from there.
When we are talking of so 40%, CAGR top line growth, so how confident are we on this kind of a growth?
We are working towards that.
Okay. There was always some kind of a seasonality earlier. How do we see now with this kind of a business, the seasonality will again kick in, or, I mean?
Our seasonality, if you want to really, observe, then look at it on a year-on-year basis. Seasonality, not quarter-on-quarter. I think from the very-
Quarterly will still remain there, you mean?
We from the very first earnings call, a year and a half back, we have been requesting all the investors not to just go by one quarter. For this year, if we are talking about a 40% growth, look at the whole year. If you see this quarter also, we have achieved a 37.5% or 38% growth.
Okay. Thank you and all the best, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sarang Sanil from RW Investment Advisors. Please go ahead.
Good morning, sir. Thank you for the opportunity and congrats on great number. I have a couple of questions on the auto side. First question is, how are the contracts drawn, drawn with the auto OEMs? I understand the service is provided for three to five years. Are we getting the revenue upfront from these OEMs when a vehicle is sold? I wanted to know this, if there is an annuity part that we are getting from these vehicles, or are we getting incremental revenue from these vehicles only by upselling additional APIs? That's my first question, sir.
Yeah. The auto business, basically, they come up with new platforms every two years, and which have a bunch of car models or two-wheeler models, on which they figure out what all solutions to put in, and that's where we bag those contracts. Then, as those vehicles go into the market, each vehicle goes built in with our solutions. We have to, we have to provide them the solution from the very beginning, and also there are some components which have a annuity component, additionally. Revenue is both at the time of sale of the vehicle and potentially and increasingly, also, there are some additional monies that we get per year, depending on what use case, et cetera.
Yes, beyond that, there are more use cases that, you know, across our N-CASE suite that we call, navigation led, connected, ADAS, shared and electric solutions. There's more use cases that we are upselling to the OEMs.
I believe.
Sorry to interrupt. May I please request you to rejoin the queue for your follow-up, as we have many questions in turn?
Ma'am, 1 more question. I'll just ask my second question.
Okay, sure.
That's right. Regarding cars with ADAS feature, how are the revenue inflow structured? ADAS being a very critical feature in a car, say, once you're done providing service for the contracted period, post that, who's going to pay us? Is it the end customer or the OEM, considering, you know, how critical it is?
Couldn't hear the question clearly. I mean, but I mean, general OEM is our customer. Consumer is customer's separate business.
It's for ADAS, vehicles with ADAS feature, right? Once the service is being provided, post the contract period, who is going to pay us? Is it the OEM or the end customer?
The OEM pays us.
If, if a customer holds the vehicle for, say, 15, 20 years, OEM keep paying us?
I mean, I, I, I, I don't, I, I don't know, you know.
Let me help you, Rohan. These are complex contractual issues. How can OEM pay us for 20 years of the vehicle ownership or not? It's something we. Our customer is OEM, and they pay us. That's all, is, that all is part of the contract. How the OEM deals with the customer, their customer for 20 years is something between them and the end buyer.
Thank you. Before we take the next question, I'd like to remind participants to please limit your question to one per participant only. The next question is from the line of Sampath Nayak from Tiger Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. This is a follow-up question. I understand that drone business is relatively small, like 5-6 systems, it can be huge, right? I just want to understand. Like in drone manufacturing, we said we, we are into drone manufacturing. Is it like, do we have anything proprietary in these lines, or it is just assemble the gather part and assemble? Secondly, on the, like drone services part. Like, you said you are into drone services also. When you do that, don't you deviate from your core business?
No, the, the second, second question, let me answer first. Drone solutions, everybody knows the use case is mapping and providing map-based solution. Drone is used to capture data from the sky versus the ground. Who better than a mapping company, actually, to provide the drone-based solution where data is captured from the drone, but then again, processed, analyzed and delivered through our mapping and geospatial GIS platforms, et cetera. It's not deviating from our goal. It is actually enhancing. There's a network flywheel effect also in the business, because we are in the business of acquiring data, productizing it, and disseminating it through various use cases. On the first, we are not ourselves manufacturing drones, like now.
you know, that's why we have these inorganic investment, and partnerships, where we can leverage the capabilities of company, so that we can provide the full solution of that. Yeah, these are proprietary products manufactured by company partners.
Yes. I think on the similar front, you know, in the IoT also there's a hardware, and we make, invest, some of the inorganic investments we have made is keeping in mind that we get reliable capability and sources for whether it is a drone or IoT.
Okay, just follow-up question, sir. This, this question is, in terms of you said you are into drone services, which means I think you provide pilots and drones, right? On a need, need basis. Am I correct?
No, no, that drone services is a broad. We are not a pilot rental company. When I mean drone services or drone solutions, I mean that if a customer needs an area mapped or an area inspected, and they want to get, for example, a 3D volumetric analysis of that, or they want to understand how that area has changed, some kind of change detection, or they want to extract some data from that. For example, the SVAMITVA project, where they want to extract property rights or land records from that, so they want to see the extent of the property. That's a mapping use case, and that's where we are positioned very strongly. As part of that, if we have to fly the drone and we have to capture the data, and process that, we'll do that as well.
Okay, sir. Got it. Thanks.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraint, we take the last question for today. It's from the line of Divyansh Gupta from Latent Advisors. Please go ahead. Sir Gupta, you may please go ahead with your question.
Hey, sorry, I'm audible?
Yes, sir, you are. You may please proceed.
Yeah. I have a couple of questions. One is that what is our map updation for the quarter, and how do we see it on a yearly basis? I mean that my understanding with regards to the IoT devices that we sell to our customer is that the mapping, the SaaS solution is available for one year. Now, given that G2P has been there with us for more than 1 year, what has been the renewal % of customers who have been using the devices for more than 1 year?
Yeah. On the first question, I mean, this map updation is a continuous exercise.
Mm-hmm.
On a monthly basis, we update and release a master map data for the entire country. On a real-time basis, we also keep updating, upgrading, and publishing the latest maps, which is why you see when, you know, the new airport is inaugurated in Port Blair, the same day or very next day, a 3D map of that airport is available on Maps. If in a new road or tunnel is, you know, opened up for public usage, it was already mapped as under construction in our map, and then is opened up for navigation. There's like a real-time rich kind of pipeline where we are continuously kind of publishing real-time map updates, and then there's a monthly cadence to releasing the master, and that's where expansion is happening.
On IoT, you know, this, the SaaS income that you're seeing is a result of, of, you know, past customers who bought the hardware. We've not released a stat on renewal. I'll take it on board as something to see what to do for, for future. I mean, it's just, we've started to explain the IoT business just in the last couple of quarters on a quarterly basis, so hopefully you're getting some insights into that already.
Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference back to the management for their closing comments. Thank you, and over to you all.
Just want to say thank you to everybody. I really appreciate your time, and thank you.
Thank you very much. On behalf of Anand Rathi Shares and Stock Brokers, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.