Q3 21/22

Jan 27, 2022

Ladies and gentlemen, we thank you for attending C.E. Info Systems Limited Q3 FY 2022 earnings conference call hosted by DAM Capital Advisors Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode. There will be an opportunity to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your telephone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I hand the conference over to Mr. Anmol Garg from DAM Capital. Thank you. Over to you, sir. Yeah. Thank you, Suzanne. On behalf of DAM Capital, we welcome you all to Q3 FY 2022 earnings call of C.E. Info Systems. We have with us Mr. Rakesh Verma, Chairman and Managing Director of the company, and Mr. Rohan Verma, CEO and Executive Director. We will start the call with the opening remarks from the management, post which we will open the line for Q&A. Without any further ado, I'll hand over the call to Mr. Rohan Verma for his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, Rohan. Good evening, everybody. This is Rohan Verma, CEO and Executive Director of MapmyIndia. We welcome you all. This is our first quarterly call after having become publicly listed. I thought of starting our talk with a little bit of revision of who the company is, what we do, just for the benefit of those investors and analysts who are new to the company and those who may want a refresh since the last time of our IPO roadshow. So we are C.E. Info Systems Limited, popularly known as MapmyIndia. We are a leading provider of advanced digital maps, geospatial software, and location-based IoT technologies. We are B2B and B2B2C market leader for maps and geospatial products, with a comprehensive suite of SaaS, Software as a Service, PaaS, Platform as a Service, and MaaS, Maps as a Service offerings. I've structured our talk basically to give you a sense of our business overview first, strengths and strategy. Then we'll get into Q3 and nine-month FY 2022 updates as well as operational highlights. So we were founded 26 years ago by a technocrat founding team with this vision that someday 80% of all data would have a location component to it, and harnessing that could create tremendous value. There were no digital maps available for India at that time, and so the efforts of Mr. Verma and Mrs. Verma, who are BITS Pilani and IIT Roorkee alumni, worked in the U.S. for General Motors and IBM. Their effort to create India's first digital maps is what set the tone for this pioneering effort of the company to create a very unique company. I am an electrical engineering graduate and an MBA from INSEAD business school. I joined in India early 2000, 2004, when we started our first ever online mapping portal. We basically offer, as I said, MaaS, PaaS, and BaaS. Our products and platforms consist of digital maps and geospatial data, map location and navigation products and platforms for interactive mapping, search, routing, navigation, et cetera. GIS, geospatial information systems, geospatial data analytics, and geospatial AI products and platforms, as well as location-based IoT fleet management and workforce automation products and platforms. We provide each of our platforms or products as APIs as well, providing a whole host of developer APIs and SDKs. As well as we provide consumer-facing apps and IoT gadgets. A large majority of our business comes from B2B and B2B2C, where we package our solutions for location-powered consumer tech and enterprise digital transformation on one side and for NCASE applications, connected vehicles, telematics and services, ADAS safety, shared mobility, electric mobility, automotive and mobility tech. Our customers include new age tech companies, automotive OEMs, businesses across industry verticals, government organizations, app developers, and consumers. We have leading marquee customers across segments which we have mentioned also before in the IPO: Hyundai, MG Motors, PhonePe, Flipkart, Yulu, HDFC Bank, Airtel, ABIS, Safexpress, and Goods and Services Tax Network as an example. We sign long-term mutually renewable contracts of 3 to 5 years with our customers who we provide our products, platforms, APIs, et cetera. We charge them fees per period based on either per vehicle, per asset, per transaction, per use case, et cetera, for the usage of our IP. Subscription fees, royalties, and annuities primarily form the company's revenue from operations. There are ever-expanding use cases for our maps and technology. That is what has become interesting in just the last short period of time. Earlier, this was a niche area. Now, whether it is automotive, e-commerce, food delivery, transport and logistics, BFSI, government, defense, retail, telecom, everywhere there is more and more usage of our maps and technology, and scope for growth for us. In terms of our DNA, it is all about innovation. I will not go through that in detail. The slide is there in our investor presentation. You can see how we continuously innovate to create new and new products to provide more and more use cases so there are larger and larger addressable markets for us. That is the DNA of the company historically, and continues to be. Our maps, basically, our core product has the most detailed coverage of the country. Covering all the road kilometers across India, all the towns, all the villages, about 3.1 crore places and addresses, 30 crore plus geo-referenced photos, videos, and value-added locational analytics data sets. We are building not just a 2-dimensional map, but a 3-dimensional, 4-dimensional high definition, AI-powered digital map twin of the real world using all the leading-edge technologies. Our ability to not just acquire or survey, but also to process and productize, then deliver through a platform, various types of use cases of the maps is what differentiates us and makes us fundamentally a product and platform company, not just a services company. Our SaaS products are there for geospatial analytics, GIS, et cetera, IoT, workforce automation, and NCASE mobility. We have given a few slides or representations of the products. You can, of course, see them on our website and try them out as well. Finally, as I said, every product and platform we make, we deliver as APIs. Our platform as a service, because we believe that just the way software is eating the world, developers are eating software. By becoming a building block API, providing all sorts of functionalities, we can go embedded in all sorts of apps and enterprise tech stacks. There is a strong network effect in our business with our maps, apps, and PaaS interacting with each other. We have built a very detailed, comprehensive digital map over the course of 25 years, which is not easily replicable in a diverse and complex geography such as India. Also the fact that we have created these maps and PaaS products and platforms that utilize maps, and the usage of which also enhances our maps, giving us signals through analytics, through IoT, through sensor data, usage data, we are able to enhance each other in a self-perpetuating manner. Moreover, having served 2,000 enterprise customers across segments historically, there are so many use cases that we have been used for that we can simply upsell and cross-sell to customers going forward. So there is a snowball effect in our business going forward. We have talked about how our founding team is supported by a pretty experienced professional management team, and their details we have shared in the investor presentation. So it is a very solid management team that we are operating with. The addressable market in MapmyIndia's area is set to grow very large, as per Frost & Sullivan, by the year 2025, to INR 4.2 billion for digital map services and INR 44 billion for navigation solutions and telematics. Driven by the fact that about 3 million new vehicles are sold every year. There are about 300 million, 280 million existing vehicles on the road. About 37 billion app downloads will happen in FY 2022, and about INR 52 billion will be spent on enterprise digital transformation by 2025. All of these four key drivers where maps and technologies of MapmyIndia can be leveraged define the total addressable market for us. The government has been giving a lot of enablers in our sector, especially liberalizing the geospatial sector and putting restrictions on foreign entities versus Indian entities like MapmyIndia and other things like GPS-based tolling, drone liberalization, et cetera, which are opening up the market for us. In summary, basically, strengths are B2B, B2B2C market leaders, ever-expanding use cases, large addressable markets with industry and policy tailwinds. We are a global geospatial products company, proprietary technology, strong network effect, marquee customers, and a strong founding and management team. And we look forward to the future to augment our products, platforms, and technologies, create and expand our customer reach, drive expansion in international markets, pursue selective strategic acquisitions and investments, as well as attract, develop, and retain key employees. With that, I will focus now on the Q3 and nine months FY 2022 updates. I will first ask Mr. Rakesh Verma, our CMD and co-founder, to give his remarks on this. Welcome all of you. This is Rakesh Verma. I will have a very quick and brief statement. After I finish my little part, I will ask Rohan again to take you through more and more insight into the business. Last quarter was special to us, rather very special to us, due to the stellar response we received to our IPO being subscribed 155 times. The valuation at that point of time for IPO was set at INR 5,500 crores. The listing opened with a 53% gain. We gratefully welcome more than 1.3 lakh shareholders into our company. During the last quarter, Q3, and for the first nine months of fiscal year 2022, we continued to manage and calibrate the company in a fiscally prudent manner, focusing on profitable growth over the course of the year while relentlessly innovating on our technologies, products, and platforms, and focusing on expanding our reach to customers. The momentum for our products and platforms is strong, and this will further cement our leadership position in the digital mapping and geospatial space. Now, coming to the Q3 and the nine months of fiscal year 2022 report, let me first share with you the Q3 absolute number. The total income for the Q3 has been INR 52 crores. Revenue has been INR 43 crores. EBITDA has been INR 16.7 crores. EBITDA margin is 39%. The PAT itself is INR 18.5 crores with a PAT margin of 36%. Now let me take you to the nine months. Here I would like to help you understand that MapmyIndia business historically, and even if I take you 10 years back, MapmyIndia business model is such that the business performance is best understood when we talk about year-on-year comparison. At the end of Q1, it is the Q1 of this year versus the Q1 of previous year. If it is Q2, the six months ending this year versus the six months ending last year. If it is nine months, it is the nine months ending this year versus the nine months ending last year. Once you understand more in-depth why that is important, probably you will be able to understand the financial numbers in a much better way. So let me come back to the nine months fiscal year 2022 and compare that with nine months fiscal year 2021. The income for the 9 months fiscal year 2022 is INR 174 crores against the 9 months fiscal year 2021 of INR 136.3 crores. When you compare these two numbers, you see there is a 28% growth in the total income. The revenue from operations fiscal year 2022 is INR 143.4 crores as against 9 months of 2021 of INR 105 crores. A growth of 37% has happened in the 9 months year-on-year comparison. EBITDA for the 9 months fiscal year 2022 is INR 62.7 crores as against 9 months fiscal year 2021 was INR 33.6 crores, an EBITDA growth of 87%. If I look at EBITDA margin also, then fiscal year 2022 is at 44% and 9 months fiscal year 2021 is 32%, which shows clearly an expansion of EBITDA from 32% to 44% at 12%. PAT for the 9 months is INR 65.2 crores as against 9 months fiscal year 2021 of INR 40.7 crores. A growth from INR 40.7 to INR 65.2 is a growth of 60%. If I look at the margin also, the fiscal year 2022 9 months is 37% and the fiscal year 2021 is 30%, an expansion from 30% to 37%, which is 7% expansion. MapmyIndia has been a profitable company, cash-generating company, and as we have seen at the time of IPO also, that the cash and cash equivalent has been continuously rising from fiscal year 2021 end of INR 336 crores. It has gone up to INR 389.6 crores in the period of 9 months. I hope this probably will give you a better perspective of what has happened to the company during the 9 years from this fiscal year. Now to understand Q3 in isolation itself also, we would like to give you our understanding of what I can call it as a movement understanding, and I'll ask Rohan Verma to give you insight into it. Yeah. This is Rohan Verma here. As Mr. Rakesh Verma said, definitely the best way to understand our business is on a year-to-date, year-on-year basis. To give some more color and detail of Q3 specifically versus other quarters, Q2 FY 2022 and Q3 FY 2021, the Q3 FY 2022 revenue is down. The distribution of this is the following. Sales of automotive OEMs got impacted due to semiconductor shortage, and this in turn definitely impacted us as well. The second is, if you look at the comparative quarters, Q2 FY 2022, Q3 FY 2021, these all have benefited from post-COVID recovery pent-up demand in the automotive space, and definitely those quarters had that benefit versus this Q3 FY 2022. As supply chains recover, quarterly revenues will get formalized and covered up. We're seeing that happen already in this quarter. Also, more new vehicle models pre-installed with MapmyIndia maps and technologies are going live this quarter. That will also further help in growth in the time to come. The other part about our business that everybody should understand is that some of our B2B and B2B2C contracts that we get are milestone-based, wherein revenue gets recognized at specific time frames. This makes some quarterly revenue numbers bump in either a positive or negative manner when looked in direct correlation to previous quarter or corresponding quarter previous year. This is why the right way to look at our business or compare periods is on a year-to-date, year-on-year basis, and not on a quarterly basis. That is why we focus a lot on 9 months as FY 2022. This is also our opinion and suggestion even to our investors and analysts to look at it from that perspective. Now let me just give the commentary on what the situation or operational highlights are on this past quarter. It is looking more exciting than ever before. We are confident about the company's short and long-term future Q4 as well as going forward. We were nearing the anniversary of the Government of India's geospatial system reforms that happened on 15th July 2021, where the government enabled Atmanirbhar Bharat in this area of national strategic importance, and is encouraging Indian companies in this space through their policies and initiatives. Our team continues to innovate world-class maps and technologies and executing on the business with focus and energy. We welcomed a lot of marquee customers last year across the last quarter, across industry verticals, and we thank them as well. We are also evaluating and pursuing some exciting inorganic opportunities through IoT and logistics tech space, as well as in the AutoTech and augmented reality metaverse tech space. That is kind of interesting for the long-term future, too. Let me talk about some customer wins and use case expansion. One of the leading European four-wheeler OEMs went live with MapmyIndia for our in-vehicle navigation. Now focused on automotive and mobility tech markets for us first. Then I will talk later about consumer tech and enterprise. There were two-wheeler OEMs rolling out with MapmyIndia to power their connected vehicles and turn-by-turn navigation. There was a leading EV infrastructure and mobility solutions company that planned to adopt MapmyIndia for monitoring location and other parameters of their electric vehicles. An EV commercial vehicle OEM went live with MapmyIndia for battery pack monitoring. MapmyIndia's shared mobility platform was adopted by a leading taxi company. The Ministry of Road Transport and Highways of the Government of India signed an MoU with MapmyIndia for integrating information of accident-prone road stretches and for promoting our consumer app that gives real-time ADAS safety alerts with drivers reading navigation to users across India. You have seen we cover navigation, connected ADAS safety, shared mobility, and electric mobility. You can see that we are strongly expanding in the automotive and mobility tech space, including a strong momentum last quarter. In the consumer tech and enterprise digital transformation space, there is a lot of focus because the number of customers could be very large, but I will just name a few. In fact, our super app, INZKT large finances super app went live with MapmyIndia to power their consumer-facing mapping services and for location-enabled digital transformation across their enterprise operations. A publicly listed large leading QSR company adopted MapmyIndia for evaluating and selecting restaurant sites based on MapmyIndia's geospatial data and analytics platform, helping them understand where to open those hundreds of sites for their restaurants in an efficient way. Consumer durable brands adopted MapmyIndia for field workforce management. The government's leading health agency selected MapmyIndia to power GIS for India's health services. We also started to find key initial customers for our metaverse and drone 3D mapping solution, opening up futuristic use cases. On products and platforms on map data, largely we expanded our coverage on the 3-dimensional front to cover the entire country, all the road kilometers, all the towns, villages, habitations, and 3.1 crore places and addresses. We continue to expand our coverage for this highly accurate and precise 3D, 4D high definition and information with hyperlocal maps. We're using drones to capture and offer high-res 3-dimensional photorealistic data for parts of different cities and using vehicle-mounted cameras and sensors to create and offer sub-meters highly accurate high-definition maps and 360-degree real view. Again, I'd like to remind everybody that as per the guidelines of Government of India, foreign entities are restricted from conducting vehicle-based ground surveys or street view surveys, and also restricted from acquiring or reselling or reusing granular geospatial data. This data cannot even pass through their servers. Therefore, for all customers, Indian entities who offer map data products or APIs would become the preferred supplier, and MapmyIndia is an Indian entity and the leading supplier in this space. On the product and SaaS and PaaS front, basically we've taken a leadership position now in drone solution, being able to fly drones for our customers, acquire and process data, disseminate it, deliver it in multiple formats. This is to explode. Now we're a leading drone solution provider there. Also, on the logistics optimization side, we've released solutions which can heavily improve both unit economics as well as SLAs for the abilities of e-commerce, logistics, quick commerce, and B2C companies. There's a lot more updates on products which people can see on our website. I'll cover the inorganic growth part and then Mr. Verma will kind of conclude. The board also gave us approval for acquiring 9.99% stake in a young, exciting AutoTech and augmented reality, metaverse company called PupilMesh for a consideration of INR 9.99 lakhs. This allows us to bring our MapmyIndia NCASE technologies along with cutting-edge augmented reality-based helmet kits and heads-up displays for 2-wheelers and 4-wheelers, and then glasses for professionals. We think this is pretty exciting and we look forward to working closely with them to bring to market some pretty interesting products. The board was also informed about the company having identified a potential acquisition target in the field of IoT and logistics PaaS tech. This will substantially expand our ability to further penetrate the commercial vehicle market in India with solutions powered by our maps and technologies. Yeah, this is Rakesh Verma again. In the past, I have been asked this question many times about the dividend policy of the company. While the policy exists and it is very much there, respecting the wishes of many requests, we did take it up in a board meeting today to find out how we should proceed. The board in its meeting today discussed the dividend policy for the company and requested the audit committee to explore the possibility and make suitable recommendations for declaration of interim dividend. Accordingly, the stock exchanges have been intimated today. With this, I will conclude our part of presentation we thought about and invite any kind of questions. Hopefully, we should be able to give you the right answer. We are very transparent and will be happy to answer any question. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, press star then one on their telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the questions queue, you may press star two. Please be sure to use handsets when asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. A reminder to participants, anyone who wishes to ask a question, press star then one at this time. First question is from the line of Vin Mulpur from DAM Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. First of all, congratulations on a successful IPO allocation, Rohan. This is Rohan here. Our annual new order booking is what we track and monitor on an annualized basis or an annual basis. We are three quarters in. The last quarter is still to go. Orders that we book are typically collected from automotive OEMs and a new generation of vehicle platform or vehicle model is decided. They decide which all vehicle models MapmyIndia will be installed in and based on the quantity and the rate contract, the size of contract and order is determined. Similarly for APIs, when customers use our APIs, there is a minimum guarantee. Or for annuity-based business where people are using us for a particular use case, and then depending on the milestones, yearly payouts or revenues are decided and for that the total order is booked. Orders for these large B2B and B2B2C contracts, we track it on an annual basis. I can just tell you that based on the first 9 months performance of our annual new order bookings, it is looking quite healthy. We are happy with it. We have one more quarter to go to complete the full year and both, if you look at the orders that we have already booked and the pipeline that we have put together, we are quite excited about where that stands. That is one part. The second question that you asked is what is the split of revenue between our A&M, Automotive and Mobility Tech, and Consumer Tech and Enterprise Digital Transformation revenue. It did skew more towards Automotive and Mobility Tech in Q3 where that ratio been even higher. Semiconductor shortage leading to automotive sales getting impacted. Consumer Tech and Enterprise Digital Transformation, as I explained, from B2B and B2C contracts, they were relatively muted because the impact of that would have shown up either in Q2 or will show up in Q4. So it was skewed more towards A&M this last quarter. All right. Secondly, just wanted to understand how should we look at margins for this quarter as well as going forward. What do you think can be a sustainable range for our margins? Also, if you can break down the ESOP charges during the quarter. This is Rakesh Verma. If you can see our margin, we are very consistent all through. Whatever 3 years we had declared in DRHP or now, if you see the PAT margin standalone in Q3, we have 26%. 9 months, fiscal year 2022 is 37%. In Q1, it was 31%. Basically, if you are asking, the margin is in the range of that 35%-40% kind of a thing as far as the PAT margin is concerned. What was your other question related to ESOP? Yeah. So if we can break down the ESOP charges during the quarter within our employee cost. There has not been any ESOP charges during the quarter, or it is very small. I am asking my CFO just to give the number. You can ask the next question. I will let you. Oh, you know? INR 92 lakhs. Okay. Sure. Less than 1 crore. Right. What I wanted to ask here is that for this quarter particularly, we have seen almost a 10 percentage point drop in the margins at the EBITDA level on a sequential basis. Any other increase in the cost that we should look at apart from the decline in the revenue? Any increase in the cost that can also have going forward? What you are seeing, 39% EBITDA margin in Q3 standalone, of course, it is related to the lesser revenue from operations, this quarter. But in spite of that, the margin is still maintained at 37%, which we consider healthy, and 9 months year to date is 44%. The 44% number is more sustainable type of a number on a year-to-year basis, on a yearly basis. Sure. Thank you, sir. I guess I am done. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in the conference, please limit your questions to two per participant. Should you have a follow-up question, we would request you to raise your question queue. The next question is from the line of Kawaljeet Saluja from Walra. Please go ahead. Hi, thank you and congratulations, Rakesh and Rohan, on the successful IPO. I have a couple of questions. First is, I am still trying to wrap my head around your quarterly performance and how you have previously said that Q2 revenue is what it might take to scale up the automotive whereas the revenue was skewed more towards customer side. That is why the steep decline in price revenue. One would have logically expected that to be a bigger growth driver. Can you elaborate on the reasons for the change and communicate with finance as well? Yeah, sure. This is Rohan Verma here. Hi, Kawaljeet. See, referenced A&M revenue could have been higher if the automotive sales had not flagged a bit or been impacted due to semiconductor shortage. There were two things I tried to explain on how to understand quarterly movements of the company. One is, of course, on this automotive side. In general, with B2B and B2B2C contracts, I think generally, but it also applies to our consumer tech enterprise digital transformation part of our business. There are some contracts which are skewed where we are able to recognize revenue based on milestones in particular time frames. How it just so happens based on our order book and order bookings of the past, those revenue recognitions will show up more in Q2, showed up in Q2 or will show up in Q4. Sometimes these quarter numbers move around, and that is what determines lumpiness in our revenue if you look at just standalone quarterly performance. If you look at overall year to year, you see more steadiness or more steadiness. More steady direction. More steady directions. Rohan, see, I think in the DRHP or DRHP, there were certain order book and there was certain broad direction and rule of thumbs under which probably your revenue or order book translates into revenue. Does that still hold? Because looking as a public comment, it seems to be being engaged in a way. No, it definitely still holds because all our order bookings, all our contracts are intact. In fact, I am not supposed to give forward guidance. I am not going to do that. But just to give a sense that the number of API transactions happening on our platform, which is determined by a consumer tech company, that is growing. The use cases for which enterprises are using us, that is growing. It is just a question of revenue recognition. This quarter it will show up then. I would say it is a good thing to wait for Q4 results as well as going forward to get a better sense of where the direction is. From our perspective, we are actually quite confident, quite excited for Q4 as well. Okay. Just a final question, Rohan. Are you going to be disclosing your segmental breakdown of revenues, which is A&M, consumer tech segment, or other enterprise segment, going forward? Will you be disclosing your order book in every quarter, or would that be annually? Definitely next quarter, we will also be sharing our annual results. So you will see the revenue split by A&M versus C&E. You will also see our annual new order bookings. So next quarter for sure you all will get those numbers. We would like to, as of now as we speak, maintain that timing of annual new order bookings as an annual metric reported and revenue split by market as a six-monthly metric. Of course, other financials you are seeing quarterly. That is what our preference is at this stage to reflect more of our longer-term business. But that is the input I can give you right now at this stage. Okay, thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vinay Moza, Nalanda Asset. Please go ahead. Hello. Yeah. Good evening and congratulations on a successful IPO. I had a question with regards to the order bookings. Over what kind of time period does the order book materialize? For example, you had mentioned that your order books were around INR 250, the new order booking for FY 2022 was around INR 60 crores and 2021 was INR 70 crores. I just want a broad sense of how this order book materializes over a period or general average answer would also work so that it helps in figuring out what is the general trend for this thing. This is Rohan Verma here. Thanks for the question. You can think of. See, the contracts that we sign can be anywhere from one to five years, depending on whether it's C&E or A&M, whether it's an automotive OEM or a longer-term enterprise, or something that has to be essentially immediately delivered and built. But if you had to go for an average based on kind of what our original order booking has looked like, you can think of an average of three to four years, meaning 3.5 odd years. I am just giving you some rough guidance for order to revenue recognition. Just following up on this. If you say that an order would be realized over a period of three years, just extrapolating those numbers, you should say, from what you've done in terms of and averagely, your revenues for current H2 should be ideally relatively pretty much higher than what you did in H1. Is it a fair assumption to make, given the order book that you have had in the past and given that you mentioned that it should materialize in the next three years, three and a half years. Going forward, the growth in revenue should be much better given the growth in order book in H2 and then eventually FY 2023. Yeah. In absence of semi-conductor shortage, that was not something one could have predicted. That's something that even we would have comfortably said. Yes, H2 typically for the company is better than H1 historically, if we are talking about. Based on order booking, that's exactly what gives us excitement about the future. But I moderate my statement because of semi-conductor shortage. That's what happened in Q3. Thank you. Mr. Moza, may we request that you kindly request for follow-up questions? Okay. The next question is from the line of Madhu Madhu from Canara HSBC. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, sir. So what is the directional revenue growth we should see in the automotive and the consumer internet segment on a year-to-date basis during this position for the next three years? I think our nine months growth Has been 37% on revenue was 87% for 60%. Revenue was 37%. Revenue was 37%. We need to shy away from some specific But effectively, we are working towards a better number. Yeah. It is really difficult for us to predict exact numbers. Yeah. For us, predictions are also sometimes a bit easier because of order bookings through the past, which we know will translate into revenue in the future. It could take timing here and there quarterly. I think that order booking should give you a sense of where we will go in the future. Secondly, can you explain the use case with Bajaj Finance, which will be one report. So how will you raise your revenue on subscription or financial services? Give me a simple view on that. Okay, sure. Bajaj Finance, if you open the Bajaj Finance app Super app it is a super app in the sense that there are so many different functionalities that they are offering. For example, one of the use cases is if you wanted to see a nearby merchant where Bajaj Finance is accepted for their various specific offerings, that is powered by MapmyIndia maps and our APIs. So every time Bajaj Finance app is opened, people are geo-located or they are searching for the places nearby where Bajaj is accepted. They are putting in their addresses so that those locations can be determined. Those are all cases where MapmyIndia is getting used on the front-facing, consumer-facing side. On the enterprise side, I think Bajaj is a pretty sophisticated enterprise in terms of being able to use data science and data analytics, as well as very efficiently monitoring and tracking their field workforce. There is a lot of different location intelligence solutions of ours which they are using to analyze, to location KYC, to do risk assessment, to run all sorts of hyperlocal analytics on potential applicants for loans, et cetera, and to give credit go, no-go decisions, as well as also to monitor and optimize their field workforce movement and operations. With our APIs, it is a per transaction model which we have to give to customers. So in this sense, the more these apps get used, the more revenues accrue to us. I will obviously not talk about specific financials of any specific customer, but hopefully this gives you some color as to where or similar type of customers. Thanks a lot. Ladies and gentlemen, please limit your questions to core participants. Should you have a follow-up question, we would request you to rejoin the session queue. The next question is from the line of Vivek Ganguly from Red River Capital. Please go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity. I have two quick questions. One, the difference between the total income and revenue from operations is financial income. Is my assumption right? Yes. It is a financial income. Investment of the treasury or anything else like that. Can you speak a little bit about the competitive landscape? One. Secondly, with the new government regulations you alluded to. Will a company like Google be freely able to make the geospatial data updated and also commercialize it? Or will they have to now buy it from a local player or something? What will it pan out like? Thanks for the question. This is Rohan here. Yes, exactly. I will answer this in two parts. Let me answer the policy question first. Yes, if you look at the geospatial guidelines released by the Government of India, it does restrict foreign entities from doing vehicle-based ground surveys. They are not allowed to do terrestrial mobile mapping surveys. They are also not allowed to do street view survey, which is that 360 degree street view that you see in the U.S. They are not allowed to do that either in India. When it comes to data that is granular, finer than one meter in horizontal or three meter in vertical, actually foreign entities are not just not allowed to acquire, like they cannot acquire any other data also from the field. But they are also not allowed to either resell. They cannot become a supplier of that to any other company or organization. They are not allowed to reuse it, and that data is not allowed to pass through their servers. In that sense companies which are doing that or continue to do that or may consider doing that will be in violation of the government's guidelines on this sector. This does have a pretty big impact on the industry, whether for B2B or B2B2C or even B2C in future. Because essentially the guideline is saying that foreign entities can use this data through APIs for serving their users in India. They cannot resell it or reuse it. Basically foreign end entities, end user entities like automotive companies or tech companies or enterprises One thing last. leverage the power of mapping and geospatial, but work with Indian entities in this. What is important is for Indian entities to have the ability to service these use cases at scale and in a quality manner. MapmyIndia product companies, MapmyIndia platform companies will be the people who can enjoy that benefit. Here we are well-positioned as the leading and probably the only company in this space. This is- Rohan, if Google is a global entity, but they also have a company in India, and they might have other companies in India. So would it be considered as an Indian entity? No. The definition in the guideline is an Indian entity is only that is owned or controlled. So if it is a subsidiary of a foreign company and it is controlled by the foreign company, it is a foreign entity. Thank you, Mr. Ganguly. May we request that you return to the question queue for follow-up questions. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Manik Taneja from JM Financial. Please go ahead. Hi, thank you for the opportunity. Just wanted to understand the sense of the fact of this milestone-based billing that we typically see on the enterprise and consumer side, given the fact that this business is both a mix of unit orders as well as volume-based billing. It will be very important to understand what is driven that. The second question is with regards to order booking. Rohan, while you mentioned that the order book rates are quite insane and there is certain lumpiness to it, but would order bookings during 9 months this year be higher than what we witnessed in 9 months of last year? Thank you. I missed the first question. Could you repeat the first question? He is asking if the nine months of order this year, is it higher than the Honestly, we want to set annual new order booking cadence with reported metrics, because it is something we feel we want to continue consistently in the future. Order booking is also going to be lumpy if you understand, because an automotive OEM doesn't decide every quarter that they have to go with new models. There will be some quarters which are higher, some quarters which are lower. So in that sense, we want to also kind of set that expectation and giving annual new order bookings on a yearly basis and understanding that on a yearly basis is the right way to judge the performance and see the future schedule for the company. Definitely, I can share with you that based on our visibility of the order pipeline and the bookings that we have done six months onwards, you all know because we put it in the RHP. We are quite confident and happy about how things might pan out by end of March. So just have some patience on that so that we have the full year to be able to report that number. Sure. Second question. Actually, my first question was around the consumer and the consumer tech business, which is where you suggested that there was certain milestone-based billing in the prior period, and that's why this business growth was impacted. If you give us some sense of the impact here, because this is a business which has both fixed billing or fixed billing business as well as volume-based billing. I would assume that volume-based billing would have actually been seasonally strong in the current quarter. Yeah. You are absolutely right. On the C&E side, basically, it is a combination of transaction-based revenue or subscription-based revenue and annuity, which are fixed, project-based or on a yearly basis, et cetera. How to answer that- I will take it. Yeah, go on. In the C&E side, some of these fixed price contract, particularly, the contracts happen to end in Q4 every year on year. It is just the nature of the beast. Just like many orders also come very nicely in Q4. I think maybe it is the way in India in the B2B and B2C kind of business. It is quite rampant or rather it is quite prevalent. Thank you. Mr. Ganguly, may we request that you return to the question queue for follow-up questions? The next question is from the line of Bharat Sheth from Quest Investment Advisors. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, thanks for the opportunity. Pardon my ignorance. Do we have any business with any government body and how much that contributes if we have, and how that is playing out? We have reasonably good business with the government. How it is playing out means we want to understand. Typically, we try to limit our direct business with the government into 20%. Indirectly, if we are an OEM, then we don't put any limit. We have done some very interesting and very good business with the government, including GSTN. You might have seen some of those names in the RHP, or with CBDT, the Central Board of Direct Taxes, or with different other ministries also. I don't know, what is your other concern of things related to the government? My understanding is that from the year 2030, it was forming around 14% of the FY 2021 revenue. Is that the correct understanding? No, government has been historically less than 10% of our revenue. What I said was, direct business with the government, we try to limit it to not more than 10%. Indirectly also, our business happens with the government, where we are part of some other systems integrator where we act as OEM. Okay. For example, you must have seen the drone show that happened yesterday on Republic Day. This is all done with the help of the new regulations in drone sector, which is called the Digital Sky Platform. Happiest Minds is the systems integrator, and we are the OEM underlying. Like that with various other organizations, Goods and Services Tax Network is a name that we have put in the RHP. Our Central Board of Direct Taxes in the past, where LTI, Larsen & Toubro Infotech, was the systems integrator. That is how we are participating, and then what I said in Q3 is one of the government's leading national health agencies or authorities is become our customer as well for GIS and APIs. You will see that play out in future as well. If you can give a little color. Hello. Sorry, please repeat your question. Can you reflect here under which segment now OEM? Under C&E. You will see that reflect under C&E. Okay. Thanks very much, and all the best, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Siddharth Borup from L&T Research. Please go ahead. Yeah. Can you hear me clearly? Yeah. Sir, if you can explain a bit about the acquisition, what is your thought process behind it, and how do you think it will benefit us? If it is a big company, why just have a small 10% stake in it? See, what we look for in inorganic is the ability to work with companies which have very complementary. See, there are two sides. Either we will look at revenue-led acquisitions, or we will look at technology-led acquisitions or strategic partnerships. This acquisition of 10% stake in PupilMesh, which is an augmented reality, metaverse tech, AutoTech, heads-up display, kind of IoT company and systems company. The thinking behind this is work with companies which have a very complementary offering, and have expertise there where together we can actually build a solution which is quite novel in terms of its use case, and has a sunrise potential in terms of going forward. The first product of this company, which they've been co-building with us actually for the last year or so, is actually a helmet kit that gives you turn-by-turn heads-up display, which allows the driver or rider of a two-wheeler to not have to look at a mobile phone mounted on the handlebar, because the navigation and other kinds of calling or other things comes up in the eyeline without driver distraction. They have this interesting capability around projection onto helmets. The product is called Navisor, nav, navigation visor. This will be done in the two-wheeler segment. We are also working with them on a heads-up display for the four-wheeler segment, where you can put up on the windshield itself some augmented reality-based turn-by-turn driving directions or road safety alerts like pothole ahead or speed breaker ahead or ADAS alerts. We feel that both for the two-wheeler and four-wheeler, this will allow our solutions to go into the hands of the OEMs as well as the end vehicle owners in a nice way by collaborating and creating a full stack solution. We have the map and software, and they have the delivery mechanism. Then there are more futuristic things around metaverse and AR, which is too early to talk about, but kind of exciting for the kind of partnership we can do in the longer term with them. Okay, Mr. Mukundora, we request that you repeat every question before asking questions. Ladies and gentlemen, there is a long queue. Hence, we will allow one question per participant. The next question is from the line of Ruby Adeshik from Narain Investments. Please go ahead. Sir, how this end-to-end drone solution is a big opportunity in size? I think, basically, if you look at the two-wheeler market, if I remember correctly, about 16 million vehicles sold, new two-wheelers sold every year. So a lot of accidents happen because they are distracted as they are driving. People are looking for a better solution going forward, a safety solution, even if it is a two-wheeler. So market opportunity is honestly quite large. Of course, it is a question of how much the price of this helmet kit can be brought down. It operates with the help of Bluetooth and connects to our app, which streams the information and projects it onto the helmet's visor. Overall, if you are trying to understand the overall market size around navigation solutions and telematics, we had shared it in the RHP as well. About 24 million by 2025 for NCASE mobility tech. That is what Frost & Sullivan had kind of talked about as the addressable market. Thank you, Mr. Naviri. Maybe request that you restrict your question queue for follow-up questions. The next question from the line of Pradeep Kumar from Axis Direct. Please go ahead. Hello. Yeah, good evening. Just wanted to understand on this employee expense that you made on a quarter-on-quarter basis. Is it related to ESOP, difference in ESOP grants? And in general, how are you looking at employee inflation in your business? The employee expense actually shouldn't have fallen that way. What we had done was in the last quarter, we had made a provision for bonus for the employees for the whole year. The bonus amount provision was made quite large amount. Actually, as a matter of fact, probably that would have reduced the profitability last quarter. This quarter, we have not made any further provision, or we don't intend making further provision even next quarter for bonus payment. Thank you, Mr. Kumar. Maybe a request that you return to the question queue for follow-up question. The next question from the line of Prashant Shah from Athena Investments. Please go ahead. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity and congratulations on- Hello, we can't hear you. Hello, can you hear me? Yeah, now we can hear you. Yeah, sorry. Congratulations on excellent listing. My question is, you are talking of market size of $4 billion and quarter over billion. In 4-5 years, what kind of market share do you expect or is that through absolute revenue targets? These are the total addressable markets as defined by Frost & Sullivan. How much penetration and adoption of our technology or uptake amongst the addressable markets will happen will end up determining the market, actual market size over the time to come. The addressable market is basically 20 million new vehicles sold every year can come embedded with MapmyIndia apps and technologies. You are seeing more and more four-wheelers come with our technology, even at the lower end, two-wheelers coming. Like that, different apps which are coming pre-installed or using MapmyIndia APIs, you are seeing popular apps like PhonePe using MapmyIndia or now the BFL Bajaj Finance app, like that, there are so many apps. Those are the opportunities. Enterprises spending on enterprise digital transformation, whether in the private sector or public sector. So that is all the various addressable market opportunities for the company as MapmyIndia maps and technologies become more and more salient. We are on that journey. As MapmyIndia, we are on the journey to educate the market, that see 10 other companies or five other companies or one other company in your industry vertical are leveraging MapmyIndia APIs for these use cases to benefit themselves. Why don't you also do the same? Otherwise, you will have a competitive problem where the other companies will go ahead of you, or these are good things that we start doing in various industry sectors to create value. Why don't you also adopt it? It is a continuous education and network effect that is being built. How much absolute revenue we can get to will be a function of how much adoption happens of our maps and technology in the time to come, and we are doing our best to aggressively kind of educate and hoping that our customers also see the value in that. Definitely, more and more customers have been seeing value in that. It is apparent from the inflection point we have seen in the last few years. Thank you, Mr. Shah. Maybe a request that you return to the question queue for follow-up questions. Next question is from the line of Rajesh Jain from AAS Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. My question is, considering we are the market leaders, about 80% share in the B2B and B2B2C segments. Your revenues as a percent of the total addressable market still seem pretty minuscule. Could you shed some color on that? We are talking about the total addressable market. reaching, as you said for telematics and automotive reaching $55 billion. I would just like to understand what kind of revenues our company see in the next 6, 8, 10 years. Let me help you first explain this addressable market versus the market size versus market penetration versus where we are today. Addressable market, for example, you can say there are 150 crore of people living here, and one can drop a food service every day to all the 150 crore. That can be considered as an addressable market. But what would become the market size and what is the market penetration, then you can understand where everybody is. In our case also, adoption of the technology for which the addressable market exists is going to happen gradually in a certain time frame. Being a market leader, and we have become the market leader because of the fact that we entered early, we have been educating and bringing the products and solutions to the customers for some time, and we will continue doing that. We will be able to keep increasing the market penetration also as customers start adopting and understanding the value of it. Actually, we find it very difficult that when the addressable market is so large, how do I predict what will happen to us even 3 years down the road in terms of our revenue? Any prediction can be with lot of guesses and one may go totally wrong. At least as of now, where we are, we have shown a healthy growth in the revenue, we have shown healthy growth in the order booking, we have shown healthy growth in EBITDA, healthy growth in PAT. That is the best that we can answer at this point of time. Maybe in future we might be able to give you more information as we understand better. Thank you, Mr. Jain. We request that you restrict to the question queue for follow-up questions. The next question is from the line of Amit Jain from Monarch Networth Capital Limited. Please go ahead. Just one other question. My question is related to the competitive landscape only. Let's say if you plan to take policy, how will it impact our business or business model? You asked the question, if the Government of India decides to do what to the policy? No, just decides to again change or tweak the policy and make it favorable for the foreign. I know, I'm just asking if it can happen, if the Government of India can decide at some point of time to revise the policy. This is Rohan here. Even outside of the policy, I'd like to say that our maps are much more accurate, precise, reliable, comprehensive, featured, and more updated. As well as the technologies or SaaS and PaaS are world-class and offer a whole host of functionality. If you look at the competitive landscape, MapmyIndia is actually the best or the preferred supplier for customers who are looking for solutions that we offer. So even if you look at it on a one-to-one basis for B2B and B2B2C customers, MapmyIndia is the premium service provider of choice. So that is answering one part. The second part I would just like to submit, that globally if you look at the sector of geospatial, it is becoming increasingly inward-looking because it's a strategic sector. It has an impact on national sovereignty, national security, borders showing in particular way have extreme sensitivity, data sovereignty issues about where the data is held, and who benefits from it. If you look at countries like Korea, China, Russia, you will find that these are singularly moving policies towards more inward. That might give you a sense of where the governments may or may not do what more or what more not they might do with the policy. Thank you, Mr. Jain. We request that you restrict to the question queue for follow-up questions. The next question is from the line of Manisha Agarwal from Swan Global. Please go ahead. Just looking at the market population. If you look at some of your global peers, be it TomTom or HERE, their location intelligence revenues currently is about $500 million. These guys are global. I am just trying to understand what is our addressable market, because what we are doing is trying to accessing the maps intelligence, which is what these companies have done. Which is where the location intelligence business is around $500 million. If we as a company have location intelligence of just one country, which is India. I mean the addressable market, if you are saying it is like $600 billion, that is very different, right? Like mobility solutions, those are like geospatial analytics and all that stuff. But maps for map intelligence, for our business, that cannot be like even a billion-dollar opportunity. That is what my understanding is, looking at your peers' revenue globally. Can you help me understand what am I missing over here? Yeah. I will help you first with saying that, look, MapmyIndia is definitely a map company, but also a technology company. I think that is what differentiates us. I would like to just make that a little bit clearer. Definitely, our core product is our map data or Maps as a Service. But if you look at MapmyIndia's offerings, I had shown that table containing eight different products, whether it is map and location navigation, APIs platforms, whether it is geospatial analytics, GIS and GeoAI, whether it is IoT, field force management, workforce automation, fleet management. Whether it is NCASE mobility solutions or navigation, connected vehicle telematics, ADAS, shared mobility, and electric mobility, or it is in general location-powered enterprise digital transformation and developer API. If you look at any peers of ours globally, you will find that MapmyIndia has actually out-innovated all of them to create a much broader stack. There is frankly a much larger addressable market for us going into the future. Historically, India, we have been an early mover in the sense that we have innovated and created these capabilities. But the Indian market was not yet advanced or mature or had the understanding the way Japanese market or European market or American market or even increasingly the Chinese market had been on that technology adoption curve. But as people know, India is many times late, but then many times even faster in terms of adopting the latest technologies, especially when it enables the digital transformation. That is one point. The second thing I would also like to kind of give you some more insight. Okay, our road map, we have been building for India primarily, but if you look at our entire SaaS and PaaS suite, Software as a Service and Platform as a Service, APIs, et cetera, they are actually geography and data agnostic. We have created under our Mappls brand and Mappls platform, a global solution where we integrated 200 countries' other maps, so that customers, either Indian or international, looking for a global solution or a non-India solution can also come to us. What we have been able to create is a very exciting long-term potential for our company based on 25 years of investment in creating products and technologies that are world-class. That is what will show up or play out in the years to come. Thank you, Mr. Agarwal. We request that you direct your questions for follow-up questions. The next question is on the line of Yashad. Yashad, please go ahead. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Congratulations on the successful IPO. Just want to understand on the previous question a bit more. Obviously, that will require a lot of investments to cater to the additional opportunities that we talked about outside of the core maps. Have you seen a question about any investments that we need continuously every year, and investments on tech, and obviously investments from a management bandwidth perspective. Any color you could provide there would be helpful. Just additionally on the seasonality part. I mean, if I look at the 2021 Q4, was also pretty heavy. If you could just tell us a little bit more on why it seems to be so seasonally heavy, that would be a good question. Thank you. On the management bandwidth and kind of how do we look at this. In terms of technology, let me just say that a lot of our technology platforms are already built. I mean, these are all our NCASE mobility suite, our IoT, mGIS, Workmate. These are all SaaS products and PaaS products and API that exist. There is a lot of investments in technology that we have and keep continuously doing, and it has that advantage of building that technology for India or for international. It is more or less the same. It is a global SaaS and PaaS play. On the tech side. On the business side, definitely management bandwidth is something that we will be augmenting, and we will be talking about that in the quarters to come. We have some strong plans on that front, because there is frankly a lot of business to be generated in the international markets. However, it will not be at the cost of going deeper into the Indian markets, which is where we have full-stack capabilities, a strong established presence, and the market is also doing fast on that. I think I did other questions, or I do not recall the other questions. Just on seasonality. I mean, Q3 in FY 2021 was also seasonally heavy. I mean, if you could just provide a little bit more color on why that is the case. We explain seasonality in terms of basically being a B2B, B2C company with contracts. There is lumpiness in revenue depending on the terms of some contracts. Historically, second half of the year has been better than the first half, and this trend has lasted, in fact, in Q3. On automotive, effectiveness and what might have changed Q3. Thank you. Rishit, may we request that you limit your question for follow-up questions. Next question is from the line of Ankit Babel from Palm Investors. Please go ahead. Sir, just a quick question. How you compete with Google in terms of pricing? What is the pricing difference? Secondly, for a customer, are you the only choice, or they have an option between you and Google to choose? Yeah. See, both good questions. If you look at MapmyIndia's offerings, two things. One is on accuracy, reliability, precision. We are professionally generated, professionally moderated versus outsourced maps. We also have a lot more types of map content and a lot more types of APIs as well as solutions that Google Maps does not offer. If we go to a customer, we compete on two points primarily, the quality and accuracy of our map versus that of Google Map. If you see, we offer two-wheeler based routing APIs, traffic that trust-based routing. Our search is down to house address level. Our maps are more real-time updated when new cases come up. Just yesterday we posted about that Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose statue on the map, or when Atal Tunnel had opened up, it was immediately available on our map. On precision, on the quality and accuracy and updated-ness of the map. The second is on the capabilities. We can offer functionality we can offer that Google Maps cannot offer. These are the two things why customers select us. Also on price, we have the flexibility of pricing so that we can deliver significant value to the customer. If there is no other choice, it is based on value pricing. If there is a choice where the use case for them Google can also work, then we have the flexibility and the agility in our DNA to be able to still win the business. Like I said, primarily, we are able to compete purely on the quality and comprehensiveness of our solutions. In many cases, Google is not even the competitor. Mr. Babel, may we request that you limit your question for follow-up questions. Next question is from the line of Ankit Shah from Shrinath Asset. Please go ahead. Hello. Yes, sir. You are on. I just wanted to understand, how does the company make money from the automotive OEMs? Is it one time? Is subscription or is it hybrid? How does the company make money from the automotive OEMs? Yeah. Basically, with automotive OEMs, based on the vehicle models that they plan with each latest platform, they figure out which one software will go pre-installed in and based on the feature set that they want from our maps and technologies and the volume of vehicles that they plan to pre-install on. We agree on a per vehicle fee, which applies to usage for three to five years by their customer. It could be longer also. Essentially, in a simplistic way, you can think of a per vehicle fee we get paid. Is this one time or do you have a recurring revenue app? Yeah. There are also top-ups of recurring revenue depending on the set of features, set of services that the OEM is taking from us. If you started to see a lot of the cars are coming connected, becoming connected cars, so it is not just embedded navigation, there is a lot of connected vehicle services that we are providing. So there are top-ups of per vehicle per year, which have started to come in the last one, two years as the connected vehicles are starting to come connected only in the last one, two years from OEM. That per vehicle per year top-ups will also start showing up in future. Thank you, Mr. Shah. May we request that you limit your question for follow-up questions. Next question is from the line of Sujaswi Sengupta from Ventura Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hello, sir. I have one question related to our tax rate in this quarter was very low, near 15%-17%. Is there any reason behind that? For the last quarter, we paid around 25%-26%. Can you repeat the question? The line was not very clear. Okay. Sir, our tax rate in this quarter was around 15%-17% as compared to 26%-27% in Q1 and Q2. Just a second. I will give you the answer. The tax rate you have shown is lower this time. In last quarter, yeah. It is in last quarter, yeah. I think, it probably has to do with some other income side of our income, and that's why the difference might have come. But it's okay. The numbers are accurate. Okay. Thanks, sir. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. This is Rakesh Verma. I would like to thank all of you. 350 of you came on call or 320. That shows your confidence in MapmyIndia. I would like to reassure you that we are on the right track. This has been the very first call, and MapmyIndia is a company that believes in long-term growth of the company in every front. While one side, we are trying to make sure that we maintain our key market leadership in India, dive more deep into the Indian market. But at the same time, we have all aspirations, and we are working towards it. In the coming quarters, you will hear from us how we would like to move into the global market now that the technology and the product is ready, which is fully competent and fully geared up to meet the world market needs. A agile and a young growth company like MapmyIndia with a deep tech behind us, probably we should be making some serious inroads across the world. To end, I would like to again request you to understand that this quarterly earnings, previous quarter, last year's quarter, is not something MapmyIndia is used to. While we will keep reporting earnings the way it is required under the statutory requirement on those numbers. But understand, if you want to understand MapmyIndia better, think about year-on-year, year-to-date numbers rather than quarter, previous quarter and the next quarter. These are changes of a technology company which is a production platform company and which is trying to build a long-term standing in this industry. With that, I would like to thank all of you once again, and thank you so much. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of DAM Capital Advisors Limited, that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect.