Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to C.E. Info Systems Q4 FY 2026 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Anmol Garg. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thanks, Avirup. Good morning, everyone. On behalf of DAM Capital, we welcome you all to Q4 FY 2026 conference call of MapmyIndia. We have with us Mr. Rakesh Verma, Co-founder and Chairman of the company. Mr. Rohan Verma, MD, Mappls DT Private Limited. Mr. Anuj Jain, CFO of the company. Ms. Sapna, Chief Operating Officer, and Mr. Nikhil, President of the Government Business. I'll now hand over the call to Mr. Rakesh Verma for his opening remarks. Post that, we can start the Q&A session with the entire management team. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, Anmol. Good morning, all of you. Thank you for joining us for the Q4 and full year 2026 earnings call of MapmyIndia. I extend a warm welcome to all our shareholders, analysts, investors, partners, and members of the financial community joining us today. Let me begin with our Q4 financial performance. Compared to Q3 FY 2026, the fourth quarter delivered a strong sequential improvement with revenue growing by 54.8%, EBITDA increasing by 141%, and PAT also growing by 171%. Q4 FY 2026 EBITDA margin has expanded 460 bps year-on-year to 44.6%, and PAT margin has expanded 230 bps year-on-year to 31.3%.
The board was pleased to express its gratitude to all the shareholders by declaring a final dividend for FY 2026 of INR 350 per equity share of INR 2 each at the rate of 175%. These results reflect improved business movement, strong execution, and a meaningful recovery in operating performance during the quarter. On an yearly basis, let me give you a perspective. Since IPO days, 5 years have gone by. Our revenue growth CAGR for the 5 years is at 24%. Our EBITDA growth CAGR over the 5 years is at 19%. Our PAT growth over the 5 years CAGR is 11%.
I think this probably will give you some good perspective of from the time we went for IPO and where you all joined and own the MapmyIndia shares, probably gives a good perspective of our past. In many ways, the trajectory we witnessed through much of the FY 2026 has meaningfully reversed in the last quarter. While the earlier part of the year saw a gradual softening in momentum from Q1 through Q3, Q4 marked a positive inflection point with improving business activity and stronger execution. We are encouraged by this shift and remain optimistic that this renewed upward trajectory will sustain through FY 2026, 2027, supported by a stronger order pipeline of over INR 1,750+ crores, improved visibility, and growing demand across our businesses.
FY 2026 has been a year of consolidation, resilience, and strategic execution for the company, marked by meaningful progress across leadership alignment, organizational accountability, and technology adoption. At the same time, we continue to sharpen our focus on technology and innovation, particularly around the adoption of AI to drive productivity and innovation. It is important to note that during the year, we secured several large and strategic orders, order wins across automotive OEMs, enterprise digital transformation, government, logistics, and mobility segments. We have also witnessed a meaningful increase in our open order book and pipeline visibility. The strong growth in executable orders provides us with the enhanced revenue visibility and strengthens our confidence in delivering improved growth momentum for FY 2027.
One of the most encouraging developments for us continues to be in growing adoption and engagement of the Mappls app ecosystems, which has recorded 45+ million download till date and 10+ million downloads during the year. We are seeing increasing consumer acceptance, improving user engagement metrics, stronger retentions behavior, and expanding use cases across navigation, mobility, EV experiences, logistics, safety, and geo intelligence. The Mappls platform today is evolving beyond navigation into a comprehensive digital location and mobility ecosystems for consumer enterprises and developers alike. We remain highly confident about the long-term opportunities ahead of us and are committed to creating sustainable value for all stakeholders. With this, I would like to close my opening remarks. Thank you for your patience.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question- and- answer session. Anyone who wishes to aska question may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Anmol Garg from DAM Capital Advisors. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Couple of things that I wanted to understand. Firstly, what led to a weaker performance in both A&M and C&E vertical for the year, and what is the outlook now for rest of for FY 2027 from your side?
I don't know if I understood the question, it was clear or not. Can you repeat, Anmol?
Yeah. Am I audible?
Yeah.
Yes, sir. Sir, wanted to understand what led to a weaker performance in both automotive and mobility and consumer enterprise vertical for the year, and what is the outlook now for FY 2027?
First part is the entire year had a muted growth overall from INR 463 crores to INR 474 crores. Naturally, overall growth in either one of them is not much expected. It might be a little bit growth more in the one and a little bit slowdown in the other. That's how it makes up the same number.
Quarter-on-quarter.
On a quarter-on-quarter, if you look at it.
C&E has increased.
C&E has increased.
142%.
142%. Sequential quarter-on-quarter, I'm talking about, has increased 142%.
Right, sir. Sir, overall C&E vertical has shown a decline for the full year. Just wanted to understand what led to what were the issues, at least in the previous quarter, towards the first nine months of the year?
Now we are talking about the full year. If the C&E declined by - 3%, A&M increased by 9%. Coming to C&E specifically, its decline, if you're talking about 3%, well, C&E also includes the government. The government business that was expected for the whole year has been a lot of them got delayed or deferred for the next year. That's why you see that decline.
Right, sir. Sir, considering there is a deferment of contracts, on the government side, should we return back to 20% kind of plus growth levels in FY 2027?
Oh, you're talking about the overall or just the government?
Overall.
See, overall, as I gave you the 5-year CAGR has been of 24%, right? While last year itself it has been like 1%, 2% types. Your question is, can we expect to come back above 20% for FY 2026? That's the guidance you are asking about?
Right, sir.
Rohan.
I mean, apart from the government angle, I think we are fairly confident that we'll do this. If you see, we closed the government.
Business
business with an open order book of more than INR 200 crores.
Crores.
Significantly more than INR 200 crore. I think for the first nine months, we had already explained in Q3 what were the dynamics across the different segments. We saw a strong Q4. That's the inflection point that we have seen. The government business itself should see a significant growth in this year. Also the IoT business, which is basically underpinning or being driven across government, but also automotive and the corporate, that is also going to see a significant growth. In that sense, we're fairly confident and fairly excited about the year to come.
A large pipeline now.
The overall pipeline for the company is about INR 1,750 crores, which is the order book in general, across the different segments.
There are lots of large opportunities, or I would not say lots of large opportunities, some extremely large opportunities in each area. Even if a few of those convert, this probably will have a significant impact in the future of the company. Besides those few extremely large opportunities, there's also obviously a fairly robust and diversified pipeline funnel, which are to be converted into orders the same way that happened last year. Overall, things are looking good. We've had our strategy session, you know, we've had our annual planning session, we've had our budgeting exercise, and I think all the teams are raring to go.
Okay. Okay. Understood. Understood. Secondly, you know, we have always given a data point, which is revenue conversion from our open order book in our annual report. This number has been coming down from some 21%-22% in FY 2022 to nearly about 13% in FY 2025. How would this number would be in FY 2026? I'm just asking so that we can project how much of the current order book will convert into revenues for next year.
In FY 2026, the conversion from open order, let's say that open order book, FY 2026 beginning was INR 1,500 crores. Correct, Anmol?
Correct.
From that INR 1,500 crore, around 17%-18%, I guess. 18% got converted into revenue. That makes it from INR 1,500 and 18%, you can calculate it is something like INR 270 crore. The rest of the INR 200 crore revenue came in FY 2026 was from the new order that we booked, which was how much new order we booked?
INR 70 crores-INR 80 crores.
No.
About INR 70 crores-INR 80 crores.
INR 780 crores we booked new orders in FY 2026. Out of that, INR 200 crores got converted into revenue itself, leaving behind INR 580 crores for the future.
Sir, going ahead as well, should we expect that, the order conversion would be in the range of 17%-18%?
Uh-
-of the open order book?
Hard to explain because depends on different contracts. We have given you a trend. Previous year it was different. Next year could be different. It could be higher, the potential it could be higher towards more higher side than the lower side of the percentage.
Okay. Understood. Understood. Just one last thing from my end. We are close to about INR 600 crores of cash with us. How are you planning to use it? Just wanted to understand our capital allocation policy over here.
Very good question, Anmol. If you see our cash and cash equivalent is what you're talking about, that's close to INR 600 crores, right?
Right.
The previous year also it was similar, but this year we generated a lot of cash also. Overall, what we have done the capital allocation in FY 2026 was INR 120 crores for organic growth. This organic growth included the growth in the government business, it's included in IoT business, it's included in creating intellectual property. These were the three primary ones. Some small acquisition also happened, but that was a smaller number. Overall, INR 120 crores of capital allocation did happen last year.
Right. How are we planning to go ahead in FY 2027? Like we are planning to acquire companies or invest it more organically or thinking about any dividends or buybacks?
Our first priority, which we believe is the right way to do, is to provide organic growth. Remember, there are three verticals market segment-wise: government, auto, and corporate. In terms of segments, you can think we already are giving you map-led and IoT-led. Investments in IoT part of it, because IoT also requires capital. I can explain the reason. When we get the IoT business, it is done on an OpEx model for the customers, which where hardware and software are put together. That's where we get the sub-subscription on a monthly basis. When the hardware goes into, goes to the customer, it is treated as a fixed asset in the company's books and gets depreciated over the next 3 years.
As we keep growing IoT business, and you will see a very good growth in the IoT in this, in this year and the coming years. We have now a full, clear management focused on growing the IoT business. Similarly, when we come to the government business. There is a requirement of working capital requirement there, particularly in the form of receivables. The government payments in our case, we have not seen any write-off in the government business, which is the hallmark of our selecting which government business we take or we don't take. The only thing that happens is the delayed payments in the government. That's all. That means if there's a delayed payment on the government, it requires working capital support.
In that scenario, Mappls DT and Gtropy both require in internal capital allocation in whatever the legal format is. We need to invest there.
Understood. Understood. Sure, sir. Thanks for answering my question. I'll get back in the queue.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Hasmukh from Tata. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. A couple of questions. Firstly, again, on the order book to revenue conversion. Here, definitely this year was very difficult in terms of, let's say, revenue conversion, and you pointed out that there were some government orders which got delayed. If you can just elaborate on the front or let's say quantify where were the impacts and whether those, let's say deferrals will come in FY 2027 as far as the revenue is, revenue growth is concerned.
Yeah. I mean, as we explained, in, during the Q3 earnings call, some government contracts were delayed. Now Q4, you've already seen the stronger sharp recovery. We see that going into FY 2027 as well with that open order book and government side being significantly past INR 200 crores with a pretty strong pipeline and, hopefully some extra-large deals also on the anvil besides the robust pipeline. We are fairly confident on how this year will play out when it comes to government.
Okay. Okay. Any update on our FY 2028 guidance?
FY 2028?
INR 1,000 crore revenue guidance which we had.
We have been talking about it a lot with you people one-on-one also in the earnings call also, that back in 2023 we set a roadmap of INR 1,000 crore target for ourselves. The roadmap showed that in FY 2028 we will try to achieve it. Okay? For the last one year we have been saying that while INR 1,000 crore number is not changed, the question is only could be of timing. Our roadmap continues with INR 1,000 crores. The team, the entire leadership team is working on it. The timing is something we'll have to watch every year. Let's say right now you know where we have reached and what could be the expectations. We talked about that 24% has been the CAGR over the years.
Last year, the growth rate was muted, maybe 1%. Now once we pick up that with the large open order, then we'll have to wait for FY 2027 to happen, and we'll know where we have reached from INR 474 crores to the next.
Okay. It is just that because, let's say we already had open order book last year as well, right? This year because of few factors your government order got delayed despite INR 100 crore billing already happened this year. As an analyst, we are not able to, let's say, get that confidence that we can grow 25%, 30% sort of in FY 2027. Because of that I wanted few data points. Yeah.
Yeah. For the data point now from that last year we said that we could convert open order by 18%. Correct?
Okay.
Certain orders got execution got deferred to this year, FY 2027. Otherwise it would have been higher than 18%. One is the conversion. Now we have a INR 1,750 crores of open order. One way to look at it is, see that whether it is 18% or 20% of the open order getting converted. I'm talking from an analyst angle only. If that number, let's say is 20%, then 20% of INR 1,700 is almost like INR 350 crores. Then the current year also we saw how much we could convert right away.
25%.
Something. All those things add up to when you say look at that, then you will find that, yes, there's no reason not to believe that we cannot grow at 25% in the FY 2027. The actual versus real, actual versus potential can vary, and that you'll watch it over quarter- after- quarter.
Okay. Okay, just one request. If you can quantify, how, let's say what was the size of the, let's say government orders which got delayed?
Hard to say. I mean, new orders that could have, that could have been won and then could have been executed in part, especially some extra-large orders. It's hard to say what is that number. Again, like Mr. Verma said, last year the in-year orders of 70 close about 200 of them, 200 close of them was consumed, so that's about 25% in in-year orders. I mean, with new set of orders this year we'll see how much percentage can be consumed. You know, it's all pointing in the right direction only, at least from our perspective. You can track it by quarter.
Okay. Okay. Thank you very much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Gautam Rathi from CWC. Please go ahead.
Hey. Hi. Thanks for taking my question. Hope I'm audible. Mr. Verma, just the first thing, right, like the previous participants of what we are trying to hint is the lack of visibility that we have on how the revenues are getting converted across line items. Just in continuation and you are asking us to believe that if we have been doing in the past five years, why will it not happen? This year clearly was a disappointment, right? Overall tier basis, I'm just talking about. Just specifically, you are trying to compare Q3 versus Q4, and you have coached us for so many years that do not look at our business quarter-on- quarter, it's an year on year business. Suddenly we are seeing the momentum is picking up back.
When I see the numbers, specifically you said in Q3 that there is no reason why Q4 growth should not be similar or better than last year Q4. If I take that number, it looks like it's a INR 45 crore-INR 50 crore miss in the revenue. It should have been INR 190 odd crore. It's about INR 145. Can you help me understand because as an analyst, as an outsider, we do not understand it? Can you help me understand specifically where is this INR 45 crore-INR 50 crore miss?
I mean, unless I start telling you the names of the accounts, how do you, I mean, it won't be clear however I try to explain it. We are making an overall statement that, yes, Q4 by itself and on a sequential basis, you have seen the kind of growth, 51% revenue growth or something like that, on a sequential basis. If more revenue could have been converted in Q4, it would have been 75%. That's the gap. The gap is maybe, five accounts or six accounts. The orders exist. The gaps can, Sapna, you want to-
Sure.
Yeah.
Q2 and Q3 they get more.
Gautam, just keep in mind, it's a B2B business primarily. If the orders, getting the order gets delayed even by a few months, then that automatically defers the revenue conversion on that. When we talk about, when we talk about it, we talk about basis what we believe is when the orders will come and post-order, how soon we'll be able to execute it or deliver on it. Sometimes the new orders that we are expecting, which can convert into revenue, do get delayed. It's the natural course of activity. Many times we talk about it based on the funnel that we have, which is in the late stage and where we have significant confidence. If that slips by a few months, then unfortunately, you know, it doesn't convert into revenue. It doesn't change the fundamentals of the business, it just changes the timing.
Rohan, I totally get it. See, you did your last call around Feb, first, second week. It was already 40, 45 days which you had seen the business, right? Order book was there already, like INR 1,500 crore at the start of the year, INR 1,750 crore or INR 1,780 crore at end of Q3. I don't think so you did not have the order. You had the visibility, right? Mr. Verma indicated that he feels it would be a similar growth quarter. Still there was some kind of a miss. I'm just trying to understand as an outsider, because you guys are seeing it internally. There is a miss, right? There's a INR 45 odd crore miss, almost 30% of revenue in Q4. I'm just trying to bridge that gap.
I can help you without naming couple of them.
Got it.
If Rohan can help with couple more, because naming is not right. Yes, there was an IoT order for in the automotive sector, which we had thought that it happened in the Q4 only. We thought that we'll be able to consume it in the quarter itself. If we could have consumed it, its value could have been INR 20 crores. You're talking about that INR 45 crores, right? I gave you the name. Without naming, I give you a specific account. That INR 20 crores that got delayed, for certain, not the execution capability of ours, but there were certain regulatory things which we had to fulfill, and now we have fulfilled that. That will start reflecting in Q1 and Q2.
It also depends on the customer's fleet being ready to go on the roads, right? Because in IoT we have to install it in the customer's vehicle. As Mr. Verma said, if there's like a large fleet that has to get rolled out of the customer. If their vehicles are not ready to roll out, how do we install the IoT and start billing for it? He kind of talked to you about an existing order that. Existing order that they paid in Q4.
That we couldn't Yes.
That's it. That gives you one example. The other example I can give you is in the government side, large emergency response system for one of the largest states in India. Very large order for us. Should have been executed in Q3, then should have been executed latest by Q4. The government itself was delaying on the system. It's a little bit out of our hands. That gives you one other government order. Third, we had won a very large tender in the, again, in the IoT space related to government. Unfortunately, that went for a re-tender. Otherwise, the execution of that should have started already.
That one.
I mean, these are, I mean.
Understood.
Yeah, go on, Gautam.
Understood. No, actually this helps, right? That's what. See, as external, we don't understand exactly the dynamics. What I am hearing right now is large part of the miss was more customer related than our execution capability. See, this was at least not clear to us. This gives some more color. Fairly what I understand, what you just explained is all customer related issues, INR 20 odd crores IoT plus some government side push outs. Is it fair, these are just push outs, right? Someday it has to come. It's just getting delayed. It's not that-
It's not that just, Gautam.
Push outs to Q1 and Q2.
We also really wish that these are all projects executed in Q4. These are just push outs.
Fair. Fair. That helps. These are just push outs is helped. Other thing, just on a full year basis, what I wanted to understand, right? See, in the C&E business you have three broad parts. One is your consumer IoT, the second is government, and then there is core C&E business, which is like your the APIs which you give to the e-commerce companies, et cetera, et cetera, right? When we just try to carve out, because you have fairly in past also given what is your government government business, and you have also indicated what is the IoT business which sits in consumer.
If we just carve out those things, it looks like this core C&E business is stuck around somewhere in the INR 80 crore-INR 85 crore range for 3, 4 years. It was only INR 25 crore where this number was north of INR 100 crore-INR 120 crore. This is all back of the envelope calculation.
Okay.
Can you just help us understand how does this business go forward?
Let me give you our plan.
Yeah.
Because I know it not only confuses you guys, it confuses us also. Going forward from Q1-
Yes, please
We are thinking of changing that reporting of C&E and A&M to auto and retail as one, corporate as a second one, and government as a third one. We are thinking on those, planning for it, and if we go ahead with that, then we will break up for FY 2026 Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4 also, so that you can have a comparison. Coming to your difficult question, which confuses us also and confuses you, I don't know if Rohan.
Yeah. I mean, I would just say that in the corporate world, once the large apps integrate our APIs and SDKs as one example, as their usage ramps up, our revenues ramp up. You've seen one of the largest new entrants in quick commerce, one of the largest e-com companies-
Yep, we have looked at it.
Which has-
We have looked at it. Yeah.
I think they're going very aggressive in QuickCom now, expanding rapidly. We are front and center in that, in their app. I mean, it's probably one of the best examples. Talk about Amazon now.
Yep. Yep. We can see. Yep.
About they're integrating, MapmyIndia's APIs and SDKs. Anybody using Amazon now will see MapmyIndia's SDKs.
I think in Bangalore they have fully launched it.
And so they have-
Bombay also they are rolling out now.
As this scale, I mean, that's just one example I'm trying to give.
Right.
There's a gestation period in some of the corporate, you know, API, SDK customers. Our objective is to be inside of as many, you know, apps or as many e-enterprises. As their usage scales, that should lead to, you know, better outcomes. Also, I would say on the corporate side of IoT, you know, and this is across the group, the three companies, but primarily two are focused in the private sector. One is almost exclusively focused on the public sector. There is a pretty strong push in the corporate world to put more and more of our IoT solutions, and we're seeing some significant wins there as well. With IoT, these SaaS revenues kind of compound, you know, as their number of vehicles also increase.
I mean, I would say it's in a good state. Probably you'll see C&E also, which is the corporate and government kind of, you'll see some good growth there going forward.
Amazing. Amazing. If I may just squeeze one more for Sapna. Sapna, is this Q4 core auto business seems like a bit soft, right? Because the kind of growth we are seeing in the automotive world, even if I adjust for the Hyundai variation which you are having, is it a bit soft and is there a reason or is it normal in your mind?
I believe that the contract that we have in place, the open orders that we have in place. See, in the automotive space, most of our business orders. With the new orders that come, they will give us business in future years unless they are IoT related open orders. Whatever contracts that we have with us, and broadly, you have an idea that where all we are present and where all we are not. We have been, we have seen growth in quantity, you know, aligned with the industry. You know, that applies to the programs that we are presenting. Our attach rate has grown only over the, as compared to last year, it has grown.
In totality, our presence, in, you know, across different programs has increased, excepting of course we have already named Hyundai that has led to that difference which could have, you know, otherwise given us good growth.
Fair. Okay. Thanks a lot. I'll come back in the queue.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rajat G. from Fortune. Please go ahead.
Yeah, all my questions are answered. Thank you. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rajakumar Vaidyanathan from RK Invest. Please go ahead.
Hello.
Yes.
Thanks for the opportunity. sir, just couple of questions. The first one is from these government contracts. you know, I see that the AR numbers have gone up significantly. Any reason for that?
I couldn't hear your question clearly. What were you saying?
No, I'm talking about your accounts receivable, number that you are showing for March 26. That has gone up significantly. Based on your presentation, I understand it is due to poor collection from government contracts.
Yeah. I mean, the government business actually things have really. Over the course of years, what we went with the government business, let me give you some color. You know, at the beginning of the year, we decided to kind of crystallize our wholly-owned subsidiary, call it Mappls DT, with the focus that we will grow our government business within that. If the team moved to that subsidiary, orders that had been collected in MapmyIndia from the government, that open order book was subcontracted down to the subsidiary and the team kept working on collecting new orders.
Had, I think, I would say really good success in different areas, whether it was in defense, whether it was in oil and gas, whether it was in emergency response, urban planning. We had to make sure that this subsidiary became a full-fledged operational company, which was able to operate the business in a healthy manner. The cadence of sales continued, but the cadence of delivery, the cadence of collection, all of that had to go smoothly. That's why we are happy that, you know, we crossed INR 100+ crores in cash collection from customers. We crossed INR 100 crores in billing revenue from the customers, and we crossed INR 200+ crores in the open order book.
There's a strong foundation led very ably with a very good team at the next level, which is focused on building very strong platforms for gov tech, whether it is in the civil area or whether it is in the defense area. Some of it is fairly advanced frontier tech as well in the digital twin space or the defense space, you know, combining GIS, combining 3D, combining AR, VRs. In that sense, I think we are excited for what the government business can do. At the same time, Yes, as we've always said, we are calibrated, we are careful that we take on the business where we believe we can collect the money.
Yeah. Do you think this aberration will get corrected going forward or you think it's going to remain elevated for some time?
Which aberration? Sorry.
This higher DSO days, will it get corrected go forward?
I think if you look at our DSO vis-à-vis industry, we are fairly good vis-à-vis industry. Having said that, even internally, we set ourselves to pretty high standard. The teams, if last year also we could collect so well, this year we want to collect even better. In that sense, yes, we do want to further improve. If you take, if you benchmark to overall industry, you'll find us to be a much, much stronger, fiscally prudent, clean balance sheet company compared to those who are in the government or even who are in our similar space of GIS, listed or unlisted.
Yeah. The worry is, you know, your AR has gone up significantly with the revenue remaining almost flatline. That is a concern.
What has gone-
Last year. The AR days, that trade receivable, it was INR 133 crore in last year, that is March 2025. That has gone to INR 176 crore in March 2026.
I mean, I don't know whether, yeah, I mean, I think this is just the nature of government.
Receivables.
Yeah, receivables. I don't think this is overly concerning us. Like, I'll tell you why. We also look at the flow of collection. When we look at what was the receivable from gov, what was the receivable the year before when we started this year? Have we collected almost all or almost all of that cash? Answer is yes, we have. That is a good sign. That means flow is coming from the customers, right? It's not getting stuck. When you look at AR versus when you look at what is actually overdue versus what is within the credit period, I think you start getting different perspectives. The flow has been pretty solid. It's AR might look, be there, but it's not overdue necessarily. The overdue component will be lower than what you're seeing as the AR.
One of the reasons, we are actually moving on two fronts in the government. One part, as Rohan has been saying, We are, we have almost, if not, if not really fully, but almost zero bad debt in the government. That is very important for us to note. The collection period might be higher, but that's again a nature of that beast. Now, for us to, as a company, to keep growing, we are in a good position as the C.E. Info Systems Limited, that entire group of companies, that M DT, Mappls DT, the government business is not concerned about non-availability of the funds. This is a very interesting, good situation which to operate upon, where if they get any good quality business, they will not leave it.
Okay, got it, sir. The second question is, given this war situation, government finances are already strained. Do you think this will be one more excuse for the government companies to defer the, you know, the contracts with us?
I mean, I don't know whether we can predict what happens. Sapna was very great to predict what the global governments or Indian governments will do. I think we are, we are seeing I mean, we are also concerned about it, that, you know, what's the what's gonna happen? At the same time, I think we are getting only positive signs from government that not that the kind of activities we are involved in are necessarily impacted. We'll see. As of now, for us, you know.
BAU.
It's BAU, but, you know, something to, you know.
We also handed our revenue projection from the contracted revenue in order to minimize that impact.
Yeah. I think we are dealing with the situation the best we can deal with. I mean, how can we say what will the government of India and government of U.S., et cetera, do?
Okay. The last question is this INR 1,000 crore top line guidance.
Mr. Rajakumar, may I request you to turn to the question for a follow-up question?
Yeah.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in the conference, please limit your questions to two per participant. The next question is from the line of Lokesh Manik from Vallum Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Good morning, Rakesh sir and team. My question was, I had only one question, which was on the order book slide. You have mentioned a figure. You've given the order book makeup. The billing figure is INR 520 crores, and the sales figure is INR 470 crores. This difference is due to what exactly? If you can just explain us.
Oh, okay. Simple answer. When we book an order, we have to book the order with GST.
Okay.
When we do the revenue, we do it without the GST. If there is an INR 1,750 crores of open order, Not some ways, it includes 18% GST, because when we do the billing, we do the billing with GST because we are obligated to collect that money. Did that answer your question?
Yes, yes. Very much, sir. Thank you so much for that.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Gautam Rathi from CWC. Please go ahead.
Hey, thanks for the follow-up. Mr. Verma and Rohan, can you Like, we see this order inflows from fixed price contracts has been increasing materially over the last 3, 4 years, right? Earlier, your variable as well as fixed price used to be similar, but suddenly, specifically last 2 years, the inflow in fixed price seem to be quite strong. Can you help me understand how fixed price contracts are different? Is it like, irrespective you will have to deliver this and will be paid in full over the next 3, 4 years, which you write in the presentation? In volume-based, at least that volume has to happen, right? Like autos have to produce, APIs have to be consumed. Are fixed price different in that manner?
Well, first, I mean, if I may ask you. Sorry, I should not be asking you. It's time for you to ask me. If I may ask you, is the fixed price good or bad in your thinking?
No, I'm just trying to understand. Actually, I don't know enough, and that's why I'm trying to understand.
Okay. The fixed price are different types. In the government, if you can take it is a milestone-based project delivery. Okay.
Okay.
That's fixed price there. In the corporate sector, the fixed price is based on certain parameters. Like, you know, the some of the big customers, you know who they are for us. They expect certain deliveries to happen during the year and they say, "For this, I'll give you a lump sum of so much money." That is a kind of a fixed price. Another fixed price model could be that there is a minimum guarantee that I will pay you so much and if the consumption increases, I will give you more. These are the different types of fixed price, unless Rohan you remember something else.
Yeah, I mean, IoT related is if supposing we are told that these are the number of tracers that we have to install and that's kind of fixed or at least, either fixed or minimum guarantee either way, we know that what the fixed price of that order is. If supposing we are told that the term of the order is five years or three years, where the hardware with SaaS has to be delivered first, that's all fixed.
The fixed also could be, you know, where they pay us on a quarterly basis. We will do the billing also on that quarterly basis.
My question mainly was, is fixed price contracts better in terms of conversion to revenue versus variable, where you also have to depend a lot on what the customer produces eventually? Like, does it give you better visibility, is what I'm trying to understand. Is it like similar?
It gives us visibility. It's very clear visibility, fixed price.
Okay.
With volume projections, yeah, it does depend on the customer. It can flex up or down. I mean, usually historically, it has been flexing up only. I think we have been a bit conservative now. I understand, we are a bit conservative now when we project volume. That's why you might be also seeing the mix change a little bit.
Got it. This is helpful. Just if I may, one more. Rohan, amazing performance on the IoT business, right? Also it came with a strong margin uptick in Q4 specifically. Any specific thing happened differently in Q4 or how should we look at this?
Yeah. See, the IoT performance of the IoT-led business performance is a reflection of the actions of the business leaders across the three group companies. The, which means that all the folks leading automotive, corporate, and government, as well as retail, they all have been able to lean in and make, you know, grow the IoT business in a pretty healthy way. So there is some top line growth, but there's also good margin that folks are bringing in. Also, I think over the course of the year, that was the objective, that how do we optimize the costs and increase the efficiency and productivity.
That exercise, by the way, is still on in the sense that while we believe that we have a pretty strong and stable kind of foundation team led well with the next level also organized well and focused, we still see opportunities for cost efficiency, which we are focused on. Let's hope that, you know, this If over the course of the year, I think we increased the EBITDA from 14% to 16%. Last quarter, of course, was stellar. It was 33%. Over the course of the year, that was the number we'll. We are hoping to increase that 16% in this year.
Just was trying to understand, is 33% the right number to look at going forward or is it like somewhere 17 might improve to say whatever 18%, 19%, 20%, that way?
Yeah. 33% was for the quarter. I mean, every quarter will vary, right? I mean, there's operating leverage in this business also. There's a fixed cost and all of that. I can't say by quarter what the margin will be. Directionally, you know, we have pointed out that, you know, in the steady state this can be a higher margin business than 16% yearly, and we are on that trajectory, which is good. I mean, there's still headroom for margin expansion.
Got it. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shrinarayan Mishra from Baroda BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity. My question is again on the IoT margins for Q4, which are below the expected margins. Now, what we are seeing is that globally DRAM and NAND prices are going up significantly, and still you have been able to post good margins in the IoT segment. What I can also see is that our inventory levels have also increased for IoT products. Is it that we have made inventory gains on new orders for IoT, and that's why the margin is high?
I mean, our inventory levels have grown.
Inventory has no relation to this.
Yeah, inventory levels have grown to stock up to support the increased demand that we see for IoT across the three businesses. We basically maintain inventory to meet the forecast. We try to minimize overage, we try to minimize underage. We try to optimize our supply chain correctly. That's why inventory is going up because we believe that, you know, the demand is gonna go up. Yeah, unfortunately prices are increasing. We are doing our part to try to mitigate those price changes. There's continuous kind of value engineering that we do and other things that we do.
My question was, is there inventory gain in the margins? We have stocked inventory and we would have supplied that at higher prices. Is it because of that?
No, no. you mean I'm trying to understand the question, like inventory quantity has gone up?
No, no. What I'm saying, sir, is that IoT prices are going up because your memory prices are also going up. We have stocked up significant inventory of IoT devices. Is it possible that in new contracts which would have supplied these inventories, there we would have made extra margins because we would have purchased at a lower cost, and when we would have supplied, the prices would have gone up, and that's why higher margins in the segment?
I don't think that's the reason. I wish No, I That's not the reason for margin expansion is simply operating leverage. I mean, we, it's not I mean, yeah, it's just operating leverage. Revenue went up. The mix was better. You know, more SaaS, that mix was better. Yeah, that's where the margin went up. Inventory is just a function of what our future demand is.
Basically, you don't buy inventories against a specific order, right? You stock up in advance or?
No, no. We buy inventory based on the overall forecast across the portfolio of products and portfolio of projects or customers that we have. It's not. There might be few very specific make-to-order projects, but usually we have a portfolio of products and one or more of which are supplied to customers.
Going forward, how should we see these margins? Will it normalize again to 18%-20%?
I mean, over the course of the year, like I said, you know, every year we've been able to increase the IoT net margin. Last year it went to 16% from 14%. This year also we'd like to increase that.
Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay. You are still seeing price inflation, right? From last year, what would be the inflation in IoT devices?
You know, when you have a combination in the IoT business, not just the hardware, but a hardware and a SaaS. When we do the pricing, we'll think about it and accordingly price the entire solution to a customer. It's not classic trading.
No, no.
Yes.
I know there is a soft SaaS component to it. It's just that because prices are going up, ideally there should have been compression of margins. We have delivered better margins, which is good. I just wanted to understand what is contributing to this.
Well, yeah, you are not wrong by saying that prices of the hardware is going up. The cost of purchase or acquisition is going up. Obviously we also look at that. When we get the new orders now, or the new orders, we try to make sure that that's accounted for.
Okay. Okay. My second question is on In Q2 we had highlighted that we had made certain investments for a specific government project. Are all those investments now behind us? No such investment expected in first H1 at least, right?
I mean, see, again, for, let's say for that specific orders, the investment that was made, now future investment.
Yeah.
Those future investments will reduce. In general, if we want to expand, this is related to government and IoT. In general, if we want to expand our business into certain areas, we have to kind of do investments. I mean, not going into specifics of what might happen in the future with specific orders, but I mean, as a overall portfolio, we are on the right track when it comes to government and IoT.
It was initially CapEx driven, now on OpEx it is giving a better return.
Got it. Like Nikhil is saying, it was originally CapEx driven and now the OpEx is giving increased margins.
Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay. Such investments may continue in future as well. That's what I understand to get more orders, right?
I can't say right now. I can't say right now.
Sorry. Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, that was the last question for the day, and I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you all for listening to us. I hope we have been able to give all of you good perspective about the future as well as the achievements that we made in Q4. We hope to remain transparent the way we have been. Also, I believe that investors should have confidence in what MapmyIndia as a group is building its business, making sure that the capital allocation happens at the right place and is able to earn margins and the revenue growth in the maximum way we can. Thank you so much for attending the session today.
Thank you. On behalf of DAM Capital Advisors, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.