Matrimony.com Limited (NSE:MATRIMONY)
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Apr 27, 2026, 3:29 PM IST
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Q1 22/23

Aug 12, 2022

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Matrimony.com Q1 FY 2023 earnings conference call hosted by HDFC Securities. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone telephone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Amit Chandra from HDFC Institutional Equities. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Amit Chandra
Assistant VP, HDFC Securities

Yeah. Thank you, operator. Yeah, good evening, everyone. On behalf of HDFC Securities, I would like to welcome you all to the Matrimony.com quarter FY 2023 earnings call. We have with us today Mr. Murugavel Janakiraman, Promoter and Managing Director, and Mr. Sushanth Pai, Chief Financial Officer. Without further delay, I would like to hand over the call to Mr. Murugavel to provide a brief overview of the quarter one results, and then we can open the floor for question and answer session. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Thank you, Amit. Good evening, everyone. I hope all of you are continuing to stay safe and healthy. Let me take this opportunity to wish everyone advance wishes for the Independence Day, 75th year of Indian independence day. Our purpose is to build a better Bharat through happy marriages. Last year in FY 2022, we reported a double-digit billing growth in billings and revenue. Continuing with that trend, I'm happy to report another quarter of double-digit billing and revenue growth. It is heartening to see that our paid subscriptions grew by 13.8% and have reached INR 2.5 lakh in the quarter and taking it to an annual run rate of million paid subscriptions. This all signifies that we are making good progress with our strategic priority. Now let me come to the results.

In quarter one, on a consolidated basis, we have achieved INR 116.5 crores in billing, which is a 10.8% year-on-year growth. Revenues were INR 160 crores, which is 10% year-on-year growth. Let me share the key highlights for the matchmaking business, which are as follows. In quarter one, billing was at INR 104.6 crore, a growth of 1.2% quarter-over-quarter and 9.4% year-on-year. This is a sign of double-digit growth. Revenue was INR 114.2 crore, a growth of 4.6% quarter-over-quarter and 8.9% year-on-year.

We added INR 2.5 lakh paid subscriptions during the quarter, a good growth of 1.2% quarter-over-quarter and 13.8% year-on-year. Average transaction value for the matchmaking business declined by 5.6% quarter-over-quarter and 4% year-on-year. This is in line with our paid subscription acquisition strategy. We continue to track the impact that we create for our customers, and we are happy to state that we have created about 23,000 success stories in quarter one. Now coming to the marriage services business, the revenue was INR 1.8 crore, a growth of 26% quarter-over-quarter and 227% year-on-year.

The loss in the quarter was INR 3.4 crores compared to INR 3.1 crore in the previous quarter. We are completing integration with ShaadiSaga, and we expect the growth momentum in billing services to further enhance. I'm happy to state we have launched the Be Choosy new TV campaign that explores the bias against women who want to be choosy when it comes to finding the right life partner, and that has been received very well. At the recent Kyoorius Creative Awards, BharatMatrimony's "Khel Mein Batao Kis Shaadi" resource initiative to empower girls to choose education over marriage bagged 14 awards. The awards are a celebration of the most outstanding and innovative works in advertising and marketing communications. On the billing and revenue outlook for quarter two, Q2 is a seasonally weak quarter.

Due to this, on a consolidated basis, we expect that we may fall slightly short of double-digit year-on-year growth, and billing services momentum is expected to continue and largely be at a similar level of Q1. Let me pass on to Sushanth to comment on the key profitability. Sushanth, over to you.

Sushanth Pai
CFO, Matrimony.com

Thanks, Murugavel. Our EBITDA margin for the matchmaking business in quarter one was 23.5% as compared to 22.7% in quarter four and 27.7% a year ago. Marketing expenses are at INR 43.5 crores as compared to INR 42.7 crores in quarter four and INR 37.3 crores a year ago. Excluding marketing expenses, our margins in matchmaking are stable at 62%. In this quarter, we had salary increments for people. Average salary increment was in the range of 9%-10%. On a consolidated basis, our EBITDA margins in quarter one are at 17.6% as compared to 18.1% in quarter four and 21.6% a year ago. The tax rate in the quarter is at 21% as compared to 26% in quarter four.

The tax rate has reduced due to lower tax on realized gains on mutual funds, which were redeemed to fund the initial buyback amount of INR 18.75 crores.

PAT excluding MatchAstro is at INR 12.1 crore, an increase of 2.1% quarter-on-quarter and decline of 14% year-on-year. Share of loss from MatchAstro is INR 16.3 lakh. Net profit margin has been stable at 10%+ levels for the last three quarters. Our free cash generation has been robust at about INR 22 crore for the quarter, signifying free cash flow conversion from EBITDA at 1.06. Return on capital employed for the quarter is at 15.7%. On the outlook for Q2 margins, based on what Murugavel said about the revenue and billing achievement, we expect EBITDA and PAT to be slightly lower than Q1 levels as it is a seasonal quarter. I would like to end with a customary safe harbor statement.

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Certain statements during this call could be forward-looking statements on our business. These involve a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from such forward-looking statements. We do not undertake to update any such forward-looking statements that may be made from time to time by or on behalf of the company unless it's required by law. Over to you, Amit.

Operator

Would you like to begin with the question- and- answer session?

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Yes, we can.

Operator

Sure. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin with the question- and- answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may enter star and one on their touchtone telephone. If your questions have been answered and you wish to withdraw yourself from the queue, you may enter star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. To ask a question, you may enter star and one. We have the first question from the line of Deep Shah from B&K Securities. Please go ahead.

Deep Shah
Analyst, B&K Securities

Thanks, sir. My first question is around the ATV. It is actually very heartening to see paid subscription going up. Now this ATV, would you say is a function of increasing competitive intensity? We saw some concessional offerings being introduced. Or is it just a function of this quarter being generally a soft quarter and therefore we have given reduced prices? That would be my first question. Second question was if you could give us some more update on your new initiatives, how have they panned out, and what is the traction there? Yeah. Thank you.

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Thank you, Deep Shah. ATV is a function of various things. It's a combination of pricing strategies, which you deploy for various segments. Ongoing basis, continue to figure out various segments, continue to offer different pricing strategy to, you know, increase the monetization. That's one of the reasons. Another also, you know, we launched a new initiative. It's a combination of all these factors that has contributed to the reduction in ATV. However, that has contributed an increase in the volume growth. We do expect the ATV be at a similar level. As you know, we continue to figure out, continue to deploy various strategies, operating strategies to drive the growth. In terms of the new initiatives, we are still in the early stages.

There's nothing significant to comment at this point of time. Both the new initiative what we launched, Jodii, vernacular matchmaking app and also the global matchmaking initiative.

Deep Shah
Analyst, B&K Securities

Okay. Thanks, sir. Just as a follow-up. You know, we see that our investments is gradually increasing in ShaadiSaga. If I compare, even the marketing spend is gradually improving. Have we now fully integrated ShaadiSaga and what is the traction there? Have you introduced differential plans there? You know, any update on that would be very helpful.

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Yeah. Thank you. We have fully integrated the ShaadiSaga platform into WeddingBazaar.com. Not only the platform, listings, everything are being integrated. Today, that makes us the largest player in the wedding services space. You know, WeddingBazaar has over 100,000 listings. Even WedMeGood has around 30,000+ listings. We are the largest player in terms of wedding services in terms of listings. We could only leverage the some of the good things of ShaadiSaga in terms of the validated platform and the large social media followers and everything has been successfully integrated to WeddingBazaar. In terms of pricing, we have a pricing strategy, and again, it's a subscription-based model. Our objective is to get more number listing and try to get more people to go for a paid subscription.

We see the traction happening. I mean, our this business is still in the early stages. Good to see that, you know, this business is growing and at a faster pace. We expect the growth momentum to continue. In terms of pricing, again, there are multiple segments. We have multiple categories, photographers or makeup or the various categories. Various categories we have various pricing because the pricing is not same for across the categories. It varies from category to category. There are multiple packages as such. There's no one standard package. To respond to, you know, on single price, it's a different price points and the different pricing category. Because the category we are, we are business as a multiple categories. Matrimony business is a multiple category. We have multiple pricing.

What is true for photographers is not the case for makeup artists. Again, there are some cities, categories where there is pricing for various categories and also based on cities and other things.

Deep Shah
Analyst, B&K Securities

Right, sir. This is very helpful. Thanks a lot.

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Thank you. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Participants, if you have a question, you may enter star and one. We have the next question from the line of Prakash Kapadia from Anived Portfolio. Please go ahead.

Prakash Kapadia
Analyst, Anived Portfolio Managers

Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Couple of questions from my end. You know, one of our competitors, the number three player, had, you know, mentioned about a change in, you know, business model in terms of giving free listings and maybe, you know, reducing ad spends on a going forward basis. In that, you know, context, we see, you know, ad spends being lower for us for the coming quarters because, you know, currently they don't seem to be trending down per se. Any thoughts on how will ad spend shape up for us and the industry?

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Thank you, Prakash Kapadia. At this point of time, you know, we continue to increase our competitive spend at INR 50 crore. We see that, you know, the marketing spend at a higher side, at the elevated level. If we see that on a steady basis, the marketing spend come down, then at the industry level, we definitely look at lower marketing cost because I think competitive pressure, obviously we are spending much more than what is required because of the increased competition activities and the marketing at a elevated level.

If the industry sort of, you know, realize that, you know, the increased marketing spend are helping in a way that, you know, obviously that, you know, there is some sort of reduction in marketing spend, yeah, we'll definitely take a look into it and take necessary steps at that point of time. As we said, the marketing is still at elevated levels for industry.

Prakash Kapadia
Analyst, Anived Portfolio Managers

Okay. You know, despite the three-player market, the growth trajectory in, you know, the online matchmaking doesn't seem to be, you know, inching at a higher pace. Is it, you know, some of the pricing issues? Is it conversion? Because, you know, given the base and the industry size, growth doesn't seem to be, you know, being faster on a lower base also. What is really affecting the growth? You know, because, you know, we are just three players and the market itself is so small. Just wondering what is still affecting the growth. Because now that everything seems to be opening up, things are normal. I would have expected, you know, maybe the industry as well as us would have grown at a faster pace. Any thoughts on that?

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Maybe the combination of multiple things. One is that the increased marketing spend and discounting and all these factors in a way also contribute to you know the reduction in the growth also. Because one is acquiring customers and converting it to paid. Yeah, probably that would have contributed to growth to some extent. However, you know, while we continue to you know working on our strategies, you know, we had a less than double-digit growth. Now we move to a double-digit growth. We continue to work on our strategy to take the growth to you know better than just the 10% growth to higher levels. We continue working on our strategy, improving our strategy, hope we are seeing progress.

We were able to move to a better growth rate, you know. Again, as I said, it's a combination of pricing also in a way played that, you know, the growth and all that. Discounting, higher marketing, pricing and so on.

Prakash Kapadia
Analyst, Anived Portfolio Managers

Typically, is Q3 the best quarter for us from a seasonality perspective?

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Typically, we see that Q4 is a quarter where normally, you know, the growth is better over the previous quarter. Q2 is seasonally a weak quarter. Q3 it bounces back, and Q4 it.

Prakash Kapadia
Analyst, Anived Portfolio Managers

Yes.

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Do the level of profit and all this. We allow the Q4 move to next level, then test it out. More or less operates similar level then move to the Q4 again. It gets managed.

Prakash Kapadia
Analyst, Anived Portfolio Managers

Right. Right. Understood.

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

At this point of time, we sort of the double-digit growth and more or less, and we expect even complete the year with a double-digit growth. As I said, we are, you know, kind of working on our strategies and to get the growth to better level.

Prakash Kapadia
Analyst, Anived Portfolio Managers

Understood. Lastly, you know, what was the final buyback subscription number, if you have it handy, Sushanth?

Sushanth Pai
CFO, Matrimony.com

Yeah. The final subscription number was about 763%, somewhere in that range.

Prakash Kapadia
Analyst, Anived Portfolio Managers

Okay.

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Yeah.

Prakash Kapadia
Analyst, Anived Portfolio Managers

Okay. Fine.

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

So six point five six-

Prakash Kapadia
Analyst, Anived Portfolio Managers

I'll join you if you have. Yeah.

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

6.56 at-

Prakash Kapadia
Analyst, Anived Portfolio Managers

7.6.

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Yeah, INR 763, something like that.

Prakash Kapadia
Analyst, Anived Portfolio Managers

Yeah. Got that. Understood. Thanks. I'll join back if I have more questions. Thank you.

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Amit Chandra. Please go ahead.

Amit Chandra
Assistant VP, HDFC Securities

Yeah, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. My first question is on the market share. As we are all aware that there is an increase in the competitive intensity and the competitor is providing packages for free. Are we seeing any loss of market share in the south market, which is our dominant market? Also, you know, if you can throw some light on what are our plans to increase our share in the north market. On the market share and how we are seeing it mostly on a geographical basis.

Also on the ATV decline that we are seeing for the last two quarters, is it because of, you know, pricing discounts are similar to what the competition is giving in the north market? Or is it because of change in mix, as you mentioned, because the packages prices, you know, the base prices have not come down. But is there a significant change in mix that is happening that is, you know, bringing the ATV down?

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Yeah. Thanks, Amit. In terms of, I think our market share, I think continue to remain strong. You know, it's a strong market. The country remains strong and the company to grow. In terms of the strategy to grow north and, again, it's more of, again, product improvements and, you know, kind of, marketing, stepping up marketing. You know, we continue to invest compared to other players in north to continue to increase marketing, you know, then, you know. The third is that again, the various, product and pricing strategy as well. I think it's a combination of, you know, the various packages and discount offered in multiple segments and also we've launched new products.

If we combine all these factors, you know, competitiveness in the ATV, we expect the ATV sort of may remain at this level or may go down also. Again, we are looking at how to get more people to go for paid subscriptions and grow other value packages.

Amit Chandra
Assistant VP, HDFC Securities

On the ATV, you know, the decline is, you know, because of the mix change. Maybe more people with lower duration, you know, lower value contracts are higher in the mix versus historically.

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Yeah.

Amit Chandra
Assistant VP, HDFC Securities

How we are, you know, is there any change in trend that we are seeing?

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

No, no, it's not that, you know, we've not seen any significant change in the mix and all that thing because most of the people go for three-month package. That continues to remain at that level. As I told you, we continue to remain sort of there are multiple segments, you know, multiple regions and so we have a pricing strategy. There's also a new initiative. We combine all these factors, you know, and lower the ATV amount. Yeah. No, no significant change in the mix now.

Amit Chandra
Assistant VP, HDFC Securities

Okay. Sir, in terms of our advertising expenses, you know as you mentioned that, obviously it's going to continue. What will actually make us think on our advertising expenses? Maybe we are seeing good growth in profiles. You know, what are the three to four main parameters that you track in terms of benefits that we are achieving from the marketing spend? Obviously one is the profile growth. But apart from that, are you seeing, you know, some increase in the addressable market or maybe more investments in the technology which can drive more penetration, maybe, you know, converting from, you know, free to paid profiles? If you can throw some light also in terms of technology, what we're doing.

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Yeah. See, what is the marketing again? It's a combination of our strategy to grow the profile and also in a way that there is an increased competitive activity and we also need to step up marketing to, you know, defend our market share or grow our market share. It's a combination of our strategy and also how is getting played in the market. That drives our marketing spend. In terms of the technology thing, you know, we migrate to the cloud platform early this year. That one thing happened.

We also, you know, we've been kind of working on the technology front, you know, we're working to integrate all our applications within the platform that will help us to make good faster. These are some of the technology things are also happening. As our team progresses, we give a better capability to execute our product priorities and other things in a better manner or in a faster manner. These are some technology things which is happening. We expect, once all this is done, I mean, our execution may get better.

Amit Chandra
Assistant VP, HDFC Securities

Okay. Sir, you know, with the offline, you know, everything is open now. In terms of online versus offline, in terms of our offline retail stores, are we seeing some traction there or, you know, how we are seeing the online versus offline mix? What are our expansion plans in the offline side this time?

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

No, it's predominantly online. You know, with the retail we sort of just want to complement in core markets and, so it's not we are seeing any significant traction just in retail, but again it complements well for us and, it's a small personal business. At this point of time we are not looking any significant addition to our retail and offline.

Amit Chandra
Assistant VP, HDFC Securities

Okay. Okay, thank you, sir, and all the best for the future.

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Thank you. Thank you, Amit.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, you may enter star and one. Participants, if you have a question, you may enter star and one.

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Melissa, there are no questions we have currently.

Operator

Sure. Actually, there is one person who's just entered the queue.

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Sure, sure. Go.

Operator

Sure. We have the next question from the line of Sonal from Prescient. Please go ahead.

Sonal Minha
Analyst, Prescient

Hi, sir. Am I audible?

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Yes, Sonal. Please go ahead. Yeah.

Sonal Minha
Analyst, Prescient

Hi. Hi, sir. I agree on the call, so not that I've joined, but I just wanted to understand from a little longer-term perspective, the way the incremental marketing burn and the way the incremental top-line hopes in sales is where like I understand the competition is intense and maybe at times, not, we're not caring about the P&L. When you do and when you make your plans, is there like a ROI, like a top-line incremental number you have in mind when you say, like, if I want to put INR 1 extra on marketing, I expect so much of sales or else in the next quarter I will not do or try what I wanted to try this or what I have tried this quarter.

Typically in marketing where people say if I put a rupee in marketing, expect let's say 4-5 times of that in incremental sales. Just trying to understand that thing from you. Like what is the internal metrics for that?

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Thank you, Sonal. The marketing is a tricky question. There is performance marketing, there's brand marketing. Performance marketing, obviously, there are multiple performance marketing, Google and various other marketing things, social media marketing. With online marketing, obviously we'll be able to measure the ROI. When it comes to brand marketing, I want to quote one of the famous marketer, I forgot the name. He said, "I know the marketing works. I know 50% marketing works, I don't know which 50% is." When it comes to the brand marketing, you know, we definitely look at, you know, how it's contributing to our profile and other things. However, today the marketing is anyway it's a combination of multiple things. Our strategy, what's going on in the market, and also is the consumer intent category.

Again, we don't have, you know, kind of, you know, this something like a permanent customer. Sometimes marketing necessary. Today the related marketing necessary, no it's not necessary. We need the marketing because sometimes you have to defend our market share because, you know, and sometimes when the company are spending more than what's required so it's, you know, where you can, you know, do with INR 1. If the company is spending INR 3, we are forced to increase the marketing spend. What is required? You know, sometimes you have to argue it's a necessary share of visibility also. We can't go down on visibility to beyond a point. It's a combination of multiple things.

That way when it comes to brand marketing, you know, kind of, it is again I have to say, in the current digital marketing is bigger? No, it's not the case. It's on a par if you look at the marketing spend prior to our IPO or maybe after, we are doing INR 60 crore marketing. Now we are doing INR 150 crores because marketing spend that time was undergoing growth as a category. Now the marketing spend has gone up INR 400 crore in four years.

When the marketing has gone up from under INR 400 crore, obviously we need to, you know, increase the marketing spend in different market and also grow because we are leading player and I will say that we continue to defend well, continue to grow and continue to widen the gap with next and the other players. Yeah, we are here for long term. We continue to do whatever I think and. Maybe I see travel, maybe, some restrictions really comes to normal then we may get the benefits at that point in time. At this point in time I don't know how long it will continue. I will say that we are leading player and large player in this space. We continue to invest and, you know, do whatever is for us in marketing.

Sonal Minha
Analyst, Prescient

Sure, sir. I think that explains it. This is more a theoretical question just trying to understand the adoption of the category by customers in the end. Let's say hypothetically if you were spending roughly INR 45 crores this quarter. If this number was, let's say, INR 50 crores or maybe 10% higher, that is the point I'm trying to make. Would your top line have gone in a commensurate manner? Or is it at a better point where there is no elasticity in demand, and it will be rather a wasted marketing burn than actually adding to the top line?

Just trying to understand where are you in terms of just stretching the marketing up and down a little bit to understand the demand in the market essentially.

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

We look at, you know, digital marketing as I told you. There's performance marketing, there is brand marketing. The performance marketing is largely on display side. Again we get a large number of profiles, particularly 55 brands and creator profiles. So obviously today, you know, we need to again defend our brand there.

When people are looking for brands today, becomes synonymous with the category. When people look to the BharatMatrimony or TamilMatrimony or MarathiMatrimony, we have to ensure that we are the face of those brands. It's a trademark and that means that we have to bid and protect our brand. There's a large number of registrations on digital side, mainly led by our brand team. When it comes to brand marketing, digital is yes, you know, you look at many things when you invest in digital, look at ROI and ensure that we're doing the right digital investment in branding. Whether the question is into the marketing, it will contribute to the growth. If you tell me for INR 40 crore and INR 60 crore, that is some additional income.

What is the incremental cost of the incremental changes? Even today, our marketing spend is at a much more than what we could cover the current level of, the revenue now. Putting more money, it may contribute to the cost, but again, the incremental benefit. Today we spend what is required. As a marketer, you're spending less also because obviously you want to operate a certain threshold and everything else. Those things can have the incremental things. Today, if you look at the marketing spend, I think what happened in the short-term on the brand marketing. Over a time, the long-term kind of starting to impact now, possibly now, if you don't do any brand marketing. Some amount of it is, some amount of brand marketing is required in all this.

Today, the brand marketing is everywhere in the country for that. Put more money, yeah.

Sonal Minha
Analyst, Prescient

It will taper off. That is like a fixed number. With top line growth, that should come down. That's like a fixed cost, basically. We should taper off over time as we grow essentially.

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Exactly.

Sonal Minha
Analyst, Prescient

Raja, may I just ask you another question? How are you doing in non-Indian markets, Bangladesh? Just trying to take an update from you on that front. Sure. Yeah.

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

No, Bangladesh, it's a long-term product. We are number one players there. However, you know, it's kind of in many ways bigger than India. We are leading player, number one player. Again, it's a small market for us at this point of time. We started making the market and small things start aggregating. We are seeing attraction. Again, however, very early stage. Yeah, it's going in the right direction. Again, you know, Bangladesh per capita income level is even better, become better than India. It's 1/6 of India population. We look at long-term and we play out in long-term. Some of the initiatives are long-term initiatives for us.

Sonal Minha
Analyst, Prescient

Got it. Okay. Thank you, Murugavel Janakiraman. Thank you very much, sir. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Participants, if you have a question, you may enter star and one. We have the next question from the line of Swapna Kamath from [NSFO]. Please go ahead.

Swapna Kamath
Analyst, Infosys

Yeah. Hi. I have a question on marketing expense only. I mean, now our run rate of marketing expense has gone up significantly. I just wanted to understand that, I mean, where will be the tipping point where the marketing expense will start looking like it will stagnate as a percentage of the sales and where it will become like an operating leverage for us that we don't have to spend more on marketing expense. You think it is too early now and, you know, this will continue because of the competitive intensity?

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Yeah. Thanks, Swapna. At this point of time, it's difficult to say because we feel that, you know, increased marketing spend, the company is there. Whether it can. It's difficult to say whether it could be operating at this level. It depends on how, you know, kind of, it's coming in terms of really what's happening in the market, our strategy. Yeah, it will go up also and it may come down, depends on how, you know, the environment gets played out. But I can't say at this point, I'm not in a position to say that, because we have reached the threshold and it'll be operating this threshold.

Probably, I don't know, maybe, as we progress, then I'll get clarity that when we're in a position to say that we'll communicate. At this point of time, I'm not in a position to clearly say that, you know, the marketing has reached a level or not. However, the thing is that today the marketing, more than marketing, brand marketing expense. That's a good thing. That, you know, when there is a leverage and the part of

Operator

Just for the moment. I'm sorry about that. Please go ahead.

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Oh, no problem. Yeah. As I said, when you look at marketing spend, that controls the bottom line profit. That's been said. Basically, that's a good thing that the brand and the things going on the brand marketing.

Swapna Kamath
Analyst, Infosys

You're saying it's not on discounting, it's more on branding.

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

When you say marketing expense, it's very different. Not a part of the marketing nor discounting, by the way. By the way, we are completely excluding all the discount and all that. Because when talking ATVs, we don't put a discount in the marketing, by the way. All the marketing spends are TV advertisement and digital advertisement. Nothing on the discounting is coming to the part of marketing.

Swapna Kamath
Analyst, Infosys

Okay, understood. I mean, if we had to look at the company like a little longer from 2, 3, or 5 years perspective, then, I mean, what is your internal target as to what kind of penetration levels or numbers, if you could just give us an idea about how this ATV will look like or how our subscriptions will look like in terms of overall company. I mean, where are we? What are we targeting in as a, as a CAGR or when?

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. See, our thinking about the next 3-4 years, we want to become an INR 1,000 crore company. I think that's the next milestone. The immediate milestone is that we are kind of getting closer to an INR 500 crore run rate. Once we hit the INR 500 crore run rate, you know, then we start working towards the 1,000 crore milestone. It'll happen in four years or, you know, kind of, three years or, you know, kind of the company we are working towards it. In terms of, you know, paid transaction, you know, for the first time we reached 1 million+ paid transaction volume for the year. I think that's a good milestone. Probably next milestone, if we reach 1.5 million paid transaction.

We're closer to our INR 1,000 crore benchmark. ATVs, it's sort of difficult to say. It may stay at this level or go down or go up. I mean, it depends on. I mean, I don't get kind of forward-looking or this is where we are going to be because many things contribute to ATV. It depends on how some things are going to play out, our initiatives and our pricing strategies. On the revenue side, yeah, we are definitely strong enough organization for us across INR 15-INR 500 crore range and working towards a INR 1,000 crore benchmark.

Swapna Kamath
Analyst, Infosys

With similar profitability or a better profitability?

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Oh, obviously. That level, I mean, look at, I mean, even today we are operating at a 60+ stage, you know, gross margin on the matchmaking business. At that level, obviously we have a strong leverage. Consumer business like us, you know, we have a very limited capital expenditure, and the EBITDA margin continue to get better. That, that's kind of we definitely have a few hundred crores of EBITDA and all that, you know, PAT also possible.

Swapna Kamath
Analyst, Infosys

INR 1,000 crore?

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Yeah.

Swapna Kamath
Analyst, Infosys

Okay. Yeah. Okay, thanks.

Operator

Thank you. Participants, if you have a question, you may enter star and one. To ask a question, you may enter star and one. As there are no further questions, I would like to hand the conference back to the management for closing comments. Please go ahead.

Murugavel Janakiraman
Promoter and Managing Director, Matrimony.com

Thanks, Melissa. Thanks, Amit, and HDFC for hosting us. If you have any further questions, please do write to us and we'll be happy to answer them. Have a good weekend, and have a good 71st Independence Day. Thank you all for joining. Thank you so much, and thanks for your interest in Matrimony.com.

Operator

Thank you, members of the management. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of HDFC Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.

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