Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to matrimony.com Q4 FY 2021 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Antics Stock Broking Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode And there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Prateek Kumar from Antic Stock Broking Limited.
Thank you and over to you sir.
Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. Hope everyone is staying safe and healthy. On behalf We welcome today the management of Matrimony, Mr. Muro Gaval, Chairman and Managing Director and Mr.
Sushant Sai, Chief Financial Officer. Without wasting much time, I hand over the call to Mr. Morugawal for his opening remarks, And then we will move to Q and A. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, Pratikumar. Good evening, everyone. I hope all of you are staying safe and healthy. When we started last year, we are going to an unprecedented crisis. Even now as we speak, the crisis is far from over.
Many of our employees and families have been affected and we continue to support them in the best way possible. While our business was impacted in Q1 of last year, However, our leadership team and all our people executed very well. We continue to enhance to our members through continuous product innovation and execution. We're also able to minimize our impact and return to double digit billing growth from Q2 onwards. I'm happy to inform you that we are sustained with momentum for the last 3 quarters in a row.
Revenue growth combined with operational efficiency helped to improve profitability by 38% in FY 2021. In spite of the challenging environment What it is today, we expect profit to grow at a faster pace like in FY 2021 for the current year as well. We continue to use the learnings what we have in the current dynamic environment and hope we are going to sustain the growth momentum. Now let me come to the results. In quarter 4, on a consolidated basis, we achieved INR106 INR0.7 crores in billing, which is 10.8% year on year growth.
For the full year, we achieved INR 3.85 crores, which is a growth of 4.4percentage. Key highlights for the Maxspecting business are as follows. In quarter 4, building was at INR106 crores, a growth of 6.3 percent quarter over quarter 12 percent year on year. Revenue at INRUB 100 and 700.7 crores, a growth of 4.6 percentage quarter over quarter and 8.6% year on year. This is the first time we crossed with 100 crores both in pending as well as in revenue in the Matchmaking business.
For the full year, we have achieved INR 383.2 crores, a growth of 7.4 percentage, revenue at INR 375.7 crores, a growth of 4.2 When we understand the quarter 1 last year, the revenue was impacted. In spite of that, we're able to bounce back and move towards good WPP growth. We added a 2.3 lakhs paid subscription during the quarter, which is a growth of 23.9% year on year An 8.4 lakhs paid subscriptions were added during the year, which is a growth of 18.9 percentage. We continue to see good growth in volume and building growth in the key competitive market, both in our Western region. AT and T for the Matchmaking business increased 6.4% quarter over quarter, but declined by 9.6% year on year.
For the full year, ATV declined 9.7% which is in line with the strategy to drive more paid transactions. We continue to track the impact it creates for our customers. We are happy to state that we have created about 33,000 such as stories in quarter 4, taking the total of about 100,000 such as stories in FY 2021. Other highlights for the quarter are as follows. We launched bojhskuri matrimony.com, an exclusive matrimony site for the bojskuri community.
We launched imiatmatimony.com, a niche matrimony service for the graduates from Premier Institute. We also created a new brand identity, weddingbazaar.com, one of India's largest wedding services marketplace from the earlier avatar of matrimonybazaar.com. Because the Matrimony has a strong association in matchmaking business, we thought wedding was August well for this category. Now coming to the marriage services business, revenue was INR0.5 crores. It's a flat revenue as compared to the previous quarter.
Last net quarter was at INR 1.9 crores similar to the previous quarter. Through operational efficiency, we have brought down the losses in FY 2021 to INR 9.6 as compared to INR 17 crores loss in FY 2020. On the billing and revenue outlook for quarter 1, while the uncertainty is the continued exit And Vinit, it's Yahweh, which is going to pan out. We expect the building of revenue to show a good double digit growth on a year on year basis. However, on a quarter over quarter basis, we expect to show a slight decline due to the current situation.
Meeting service will be at the single levels of Q4. The Board of Directors at its meeting held on May 11, 2021, have recommended a full final dividend of 20 percentage, which is INR 3.5 per equity share value share of par value of INR 5 each, subject to the approval of the shareholder. Before I conclude, I'd like to thank all our customers, employees, Investors, partners for their continued support. Our resilient business model will continue to drive growth that is purpose led. Let me now pass on to Sushant to comment on the key product highlights.
Sushant, over to you. Thanks, Murga. Just want to be sure I'm audible clearly. Yes, Sushant, you are 2 weeks, I think. Thanks, Moza.
Our EBITDA margin for the matchmaking business in Q4 is at 23 point 4% as compared to 23.6 percent in quarter 3 and 21.9 percent a year ago. For the full year, EBITDA margins for the Matchmaking business was at 23.9% as compared to 23.4% in FY 2020. Marketing expenses are at INR 38.8 crores as compared to INR 37.6 crores in each quarter 3. Marketing expenses for the full year was at INR137 crores as compared to INR102 crores in FY 2020. So if you exclude marketing expenses, our margins in matchmaking are at 60% in FY 2021 as compared to 53% in FY 20 due to increased revenue and operational efficiencies.
On a consolidated basis, our EBITDA margins in quarter 4 are at 17.7% compared to 19.1% in quarter 3 and 14.4% a year ago. For the full year, our EBITDA is at INR 71 crores, which is 18.6% on revenue as compared to INR56 Gross, which was 15% on revenue in FY 2020, indicating a growth of 26%. Tax rate is at 25.2% for quarter and 23.8 percent for the full year. PAT, excluding the ASPO business, stood at INR 10.1 crores for the quarter, a decrease of 8.8 percent quarter on quarter and increase of 47.9% year on year. Share of profit from ASTRO is 0.4 lakhs for the quarter.
PAD for the full year, excluding ASTRO, is at INR 41.3 crores, which is a 10.9 percentage on Our total income as compared to INR 29.6 crores, which is a 7.9% on total income in FY 2020, which is a good growth of 40%. So our free cash generation for the year has been very robust at INR 60 crores and our cash balance is at INR 2.85 crores currently. On the outlook for Q1 margins, Based on what Murga had mentioned on the billing and revenue outlook, we expect EBITDA margin and PAT to increase in quarter 1. I would like to end with a customary Safe Harbor statement. Certain statements during this call could be forward looking statements on our business.
These involve a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause the actual results to differ materially from such forward looking statements. We do not undertake to update any such forward looking statements that may be made from time to time by or on behalf of the company unless it is required by law. Over to Pratik for Q and A.
Yes, we can move to Q and A, Pesar.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Vivekananda Subramaniam from Ambit Capital, please go ahead.
Hello. Thank you very much for the opportunity. I have two questions. One is on the billing growth and translation into revenue growth. So we have seen that in the last three quarters, Billing has consistently grown at double digit percentage year on year.
But This quarter, we saw the revenue growth being slightly less around 8%. If you could help us understand the factors Responsible for the divergence between billing growth and revenue growth, maybe long duration packages or maybe Some other factor, that would be great. 2nd question is on the EBITDA in the Matchmaking business, Excluding marketing, so that number has increased meaningfully year on year, But we have seen that top out at around 62%. I mean it was steadily growing till last quarter, But we saw that it did not increase in the current quarter. It seems that some of your costs like employee costs have started Moving up again, employee costs and other expenses.
If you could help us understand that a bit more in detail, that would be great. Thank you.
Thank you, Vivananda. On the billing to GAAP revenue, look at the billing was INR106 And in terms of revenue, it was 100 crores. One of the reason was any change in the duration of packages, by and large, it's not much returning the same pattern. It has to do with the because the revenue started picking up on Q4 And the February and in the month of and also in the March actually. So January also was good and February was another best month for us.
So that obviously did not translate into GAAP revenue in the same quarter. So primarily it has to do with the building up in the month of February March, while the January also has become a good. In January, we have a lot of holidays and other things actually. So normally, 4th April only picks up in the month of February. So that was the reason on the difference between the GAAP revenue as well as on the billing.
Almost you see that 6 close to 5.54 difference between the billing and the GAAP revenue. So it has nothing to do with any change in the underlying mix of packages and other things. In terms of the second question that EBITDA at If you add the INR 5 crores of GAAP revenue, the EBITDA gross margin would have been much better. We do expect definitely the gross margin continue to improve from 60% moving further because the revenue progresses while the employee cost going to come from Q1 numbers, but other costs are going to be fairly kind of on the flat level. So we don't see that a reason for EBITDA margin to stay at 60.
In fact, this business has definitely operating leverage. As the revenue growth, we definitely see that EBITDA margin excluding marketing is moving gross margin moving beyond 2nd quarter, so there's always a timing gap. So if the 1st month of the quarter has a higher billing, then it translates into higher gap within the quarter because Majority of our billings is in the 3 month category, but it comes into the middle of the 2nd month of the quarter. It translates into the next quarter. So there's a timing difference always depending on which month you get a higher billing.
But if you also see, the good thing is that deferred revenue has also moved up From about INR 69 crores, it has become about INR 75 crores, slightly higher than what we usually get. So Innovate, which means it will come into the subsequent quarters. So that is one point. The second thing on the EBITDA, in this quarter it's slightly reduced because also in March, because of the situation, Maybe we fell slightly short in terms of our own billing in terms of the situation. The second reason is that some expenses like the CSR came in 1 quarter itself, that is 1.
And the second reason is that we also established certain small offices in India and that added to our infrastructure cost as well. So therefore, there was a slight decline from quarter 3 to quarter 4 from about 63% to 62%. But I think it will be in a range bound thing as we go along. Thanks, Sandd, appreciate. Yes, even the quarter 4, it was 62, it was only more of Yirakananda and Siparakis.
Right. That's great. One small follow-up. Would it be possible to quantify the CSR expenses, which were a bit lumpy during the current quarter?
Yes, it's about RUB0.5 crores, RUB50.
Okay, thank you. I have more, but I'll follow-up.
Sure. Yes, sure.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jirad Patel from Adena Shares. Please go ahead.
Hello?
Yes.
Am I audible?
Yes, you are. Yes. Sir, I
have a few broad questions. Like In earlier calls, you mentioned that we are planning to increase our market share where our competitors are having good presence. So what are the key developments in terms of gaining some sort of traction in those areas where we currently have missed it or even Very limited presence in South market. If you can share some light like in last 2, 3 years, I know like last one year was very but still if any sort of improvement we witnessed in terms of traction, if you can share on that.
In the market, sorry, I just kind of lost it.
Our market share in areas where our competitors are having strong food.
Okay, okay, yes, I understand, okay. Yes. Thanks. See, other than the North America, we are a leader across India, meet, I believe, we have very strong Leadership in South and also we have good leadership in East. Also we have a strong leader in the West as well.
Except North India, we're one of the leader, Okay. So that's a market where it's a long term strategy and we continue to take steps to improve our markets in the North America. We recently launched few offerings. We launched apart from we continue to look at ways to increase our The converse in the market, we're looking on pricing strategy plus other things as well. But again, if Tamar thinks what steps what you have taken is that we also Launched 2 new offerings.
We launched actually 3 actually. We launched rajastani.com. We launched bharrymatrimony.com. In the current quarter, we launched bhootbhymatrimony.com. So we are looking at market specific approach as one of So let's look at combination of product pricing and some offerings.
We continue to make progress, but again, NAT is a early competitive market, which is it's Not something like we'll able to make strong inputs in a very short format. It's a long term strategy. But the good thing that not the only market where we are not a strong leader, but all other markets, our leadership
Okay. So my second question is on other than matchmaking It's a very minimal contribution to our total turnover. But what are the plans going forward for that segment of merit services?
Yes. So we have today 2 offerings. 1 is mandam. And the other one is the weddingbazaar.com. Within quarter, we changed the name from weddingbazaar to weddingbazaar.com.
So both our marketplace model and compared to the earlier business model out of full service model, we believe that the marketplace model in the long run can be highly lucrative. Is all subscription based business model. So subscription business model, we need out that listing, we also need out that The traffic and ultimately delivered value to our partners. So continue to progress on these areas and both the business Good number of listings. We continue to make a product improvement.
We continue to see the prepaid subscriptions in a subtool in this package. Compared to the way you are Selim, Yal here, we moved to very standardized offerings. So that way you know it's all 1 year packages, 3 months, 6 months packages. So as the market has started, the listings improved, the value improved, we see that the renewal will get better than more number of clients signed up. We believe we are following the right direction and because it's not for COVID, probably would have done better.
And so And I hope that this year the leading services probably gained some traction. And we also look at what are the other things we can do to make both offerings a
So like any internal turnover target you set for this segment?
No, because the opportunity is there, no, we have to see whether when can we reach the end of core business on wedding services, Can be in 3 years, can be in 5 years, so that should definitely have internal goals to make it as a meaningful Revenue contributions for our overall business.
Okay. And so my third and final question, Like due to pandemic and lockdown and the distance to production and all, the psychological shift has to be Yes, in across all the category of services from consumer side. So like In management also a lot of digital weddings happening in many states and many area and locality. So Will this psychological shift because ultimately we in this COVID were so many changes we will going to see in many services. Do you think that the married service segment will be affected negatively because of the psychological shift which has happened due to pandemic?
Yes, definitely note today when the government announced that only so many people come up on the weddings and the company lockdown. Obviously, this the entire spending on this category comes down. However, we think that it's going to be a temporary probably in a couple of months because we already India has already vaccinated 50% population. My our estimate is probably the next 4 months or so. We have to get probably 30%, 40% of the population partially can get vaccinated.
And after that, probably that gradually things come back to the sort of our debt to reasonable levels. So while then short term, it will be next 3 or 4 months, there can be some impact. And you also expect to have a lockdown that We'll continue beyond May, which we will doubt. So probably there will be restrictions on number of people can attend the meeting, but I think gradually things will get better. So we expect any current situation I think in the next 4 months or so.
That's our estimate. You may be wrong also. We had wait and see, but unlike in the past, we didn't have a clue on when the vaccination is going to come, how long it's going to come. At least now we have the vaccination, The question of how soon we can get good number of gain population getting vaccinated. 60% is what we can reach herd immunity, I don't know when it could probably end up the year or so.
So but Matchmaking, the impact is largely because of lockdown because retail outlets were shut down, some of the employees are impacted,
The next question is from the line of Hardik Sanghani from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yes, hi. Thank you. Hey, Sushant and Murugan, hope you are keeping safe and doing well. So just regarding those two questions. So the first one is, isn't so in last year's Q1, anyway, that was a weak quarter due to the onset of COVID-nineteen pandemic.
So double digit, but on QOK, shouldn't we have a like a mid single digit growth or something like that? So this year at least Like it can be better than what we had done? Or is it due to this again the second wave we have the tamper On a conservative side, we are guiding towards the billing growth. Secondly, in terms of marketing expense, So do we see this year also should we continue with the exit rate of Q4 what we had in this year or it will Mix increased or declined meaningfully because there's really no particular events. And related to advertising spend, have we changed Have we been doing any change in our ad spend since, for example, offering differential discount to clients more or it is more digital marketing or Gentle marketing expenses, which you have been doing earlier.
I have more questions, I will comment in the quarter.
Sure. Okay. Thanks, Adhik. And we are doing fine. OP and D and S and we are doing well.
In terms of growth for quarter 1, The guideline was quarter over quarter, maybe 3 percentage less in building compared to Q4. So then if you look at year on year, obviously, it should be probably even 20% or so because obviously Q1 we are impacted. So that way the growth is not really like 10%, 12% will be Definitely much higher growth because of the impact you had in Q1. So that's on the growth side on the for the matchmaking. In terms of marketing, we believe that probably we are on the And in terms of spend, what's our spend is on the Again, it's not about this quantity being a quarter to marketing.
As far as the marketing is actual marketing spend, we include both TV and digital. So most of the spend is on TV and By and large, it's remained in the similar level. So we don't see any change in the mix. If at all, it is a minor change in the mix of accommodation. So is it similar level or maybe slightly less, depends on how the world situation evolves now.
Just like to add, Abhijv, is that last year, the situation was, I I think slightly different from what we are seeing now. I think the whole concept of the virus, the lockdown, everything was new. I think people were grappling with various things because the whole situation was new. And because of that, the businesses took Some time to build that BCP and all of those things. And there the people were not so impacted because the cases were just coming in and people are learning about the virus.
So it's a very different situation. I think the business impact there was more to do with the Business is coming to track and dealing with the situation. But over the year, we have learning, right? We have established new monitoring mechanisms to deal with all of this. So that was some of these learnings are helping us in this second wave.
But the second wave is slightly different. So I think we have sort of learned to live with the lockdowns a bit in terms of the BCP measures and all of that. But here, I think more people are getting impacted. So that's the difference. So because not only customers, I think even our own people.
So that is creating a little bit of a different situation. But the business model is resilient and therefore taking care of some of the learnings that we've had in terms of how to minimize the impact. So I think that's the way to see it and that's why we are factoring a slight decline from the Q4 levels as we go into Q1. Thanks, Sushant. Appreciate that.
Yes, Sushant said, when our employees are getting impacted, so obviously, we lose our productivity and because it takes time, it's not 1 or 2 days When 2 weeks of productivity gets impacted, sometimes little longer also. It's not 1 or 2 people assisted more than 100 day of employees are So these are the issues and the lockdown detail outs at the close. So it's more as to the challenges what it is, what's causing that bit of slowdown. Otherwise, it would have been better actually, sir.
Sure, sure. That helps. I will come back in the follow-up. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Hitesh Sharma from White Sky. Please go ahead.
Hello?
Yes. Yes,
it is. Yes. Yes, I just wanted to normalize what is your market share compared to sharding.com. Our estimate is that while our the PAN is a level 60 percentage and we think that the shawgun is around the 30 percentage level, again, With our estimate, we don't have actual revenue data and all of them. So that's our estimate.
And any other activity you're planning to start because you have a platform for e matchmaking, so any other matchmaking services you're looking for? We continue to explore opportunity in the matchmaking space. We have recently launched apart from recent launch that with IMIAT, we also launched Doctor. Matrimony plus Launch of this Rajesh Thani Bhojapuri. We continue to explore the opportunity in matchmaking space and both in India And yes, even outside India, which is where we think we can able to make a difference.
Yes, we continue to explore those options. We are sticking to the matchmaking only. That's Yes, yes. We are definitely sticking to matchmaking business and waiting for this. Basic question was like because you are running earlier platforms, so you can use the same platform from any other Yes, okay.
That is sorry. If I understood, sorry, my apologies. Yes, while we've done this in the past, In 2018, we had all various vertical jobs, property, automotive, various vertical. One we didn't have the capital and other things, leadership bandwidth and everything. So but we see enough and more opportunity to do in the matchmaking business itself.
So will we be getting to other verticals? No. There are other established players out there. I think rather we focus on our strength, focus on where you can able to make a difference. So Yes.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mayur Gathani from OHM Portfolio. Please go ahead.
Hi, thank you for the opportunity. I just wanted to check on the services business. What are we actually doing there? I mean and why are we losing money? I mean I thought this is an asset light model and can you explain a little more on the subscription side as well, please?
See, definitely in terms of the modeling asset like model because as large as we are talking about INR 2 crores, we are talking mainly on the people cost. We are talking about the product team, technology team and operation team and also the sales team in place. So, mainly on the people side actually. So, the most of our cost almost we see that almost like 70% to 80% is on the people cost. So, once the revenue picks up because the subscription business model Initial days, obviously, we are offering at a less price because we are to get vendors to come on our platform, daily value so that our free progress could be able to increase that subscription amount.
So that's the reason, the cost is only on the paper side. As the revenue progresses, then the paper cost in the paper side will come down. Once we reach a certain critical threshold, then obviously, we will start making profit. So we are investing at this point of time because some of the resources are And the revenue is not still at the expected level because of last year, it's certainly severely impacted by COVID. I hope that this year we will gain traction.
So assuming so on the subscription side, what are we doing here? I mean vendors, let's say some hotels who have banquet halls or People who want banquet halls are subscribing to you saying that okay, whenever there is a marriage. Yes. Okay. Thanks, Maher.
I understood your question. I think you have subscribed to our service, the vendors who are mainly in the wedding services. You're talking about caterers, decorators, banquet halls, And macropoties, photographs and all the particularly the wedding services business. So they are the one paying for them. For the end consumers, we don't charge any money And we welcome to kindly the right service provider.
We don't have model of how we fund them charging money for the end consumers. But Okay. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rajesh Kothari from Alpha Acurate Advisors. Please go ahead.
Thanks for providing the opportunity. Sir, my question is on your main business, how do you see the margins over next 2, 3 years?
So if you continue to kind of grow on this double digit growth, which you hope that we'll able to continue how this kind of growth. And if the marketing remained at this similar level or even it is slightly going up, I think the margin continue to improve. So that's what I can say, but yes.
So when you say that the marketing And if I'm just looking at your presentation, I think Slide number 21, where you're given the marketing expense, it has increased from INR 50 grows to 1.37 crores. And whereas if you look at our revenue, 3.35 crores to 3.77 crores. Of course, the 99 crores was from The second business, but if one is just for it, and one cannot do pre marketing expense because marketing expense is a priority for such require
for that business, correct? Yes.
Yes. So I'm saying that how one should look at it because your revenue growth is not in line with You know the marketing spend, I don't right now have your FY 2018, your matchmaking performance revenue, But I don't think it would have grown 2.5 times.
See, the marketing spend definitely has kind of grown substantially in the last a couple of years. And so because they do item the competitive activity. It's not for the item competitive activity. The market is within the So the market spend roughly as the personnel revenue has gone up. So I'm talking about the marketing where the competitive intensity remains at the current level.
So we'll still be able to do the double digit growth, which we can be able to tell you the double digit growth. And then still the profit margin and the EBITDA margin will improve. However, if the competitive intensity kind of reduces and all that, if you're able to rate it the market, then EBITDA margin grow at a much at a faster But definitely, if you look at it 3 years ago, the market is spent for the entire year was 20, 30 crore. And the INR 50 crores gone up today and INR 125 Because of the increased company activity because 3 years ago, this category all 3 players put together, marketing spend was under core. Today, all 3 players put together the market spend in Ghana to INR 400 crores.
There's increased company activity, so we accept our marketing to protect our market share and also to grow our business. So as a leader, we continue to grow and again, we continue to expect that the EBITDA margin also will move up because other costs are going in line, it will
So when you said 3 years ago, total industry spend was INR 100 crores that is you're talking about FY 2018?
FY 2018, yes.
And what would be the industry revenue at that time?
Industry revenue, that will be INR 400 crores, I don't know, I thought it may INR 500 crores.
INR 500 crores. And right now what would be the industry revenue in your opinion?
Probably maybe around maybe a crores. Now we're talking top 3 players, so crores.
So the growth is over like 50% kind of growth?
Yes. And our growth would have been how much? We started growing double digit growth last 3 quarters. Again, sorry, I don't do the exact 3 year, 3 year, yes.
Yes, basically my question is this competition intensity We'll keep remain high, am I right, unless and until one player goes out from the market, correct? How do you see that let's assume the competition in this increase is further than what you do?
There is a limit at which we can keep I think the current dollar marketing spend, I believe that is good enough to manage even increased competition. Even if they are to they are already spending much for them what is required actually. Even if further step of marketing also, you believe the current role of marketing is in, it is hardly working. Again, we may change our views as you know, different situation, but that's my outlook at this point of time. So I think you have sufficient of marketing.
And so and again, continue to make progress, continue to grow. So I'm not going to push the comment on what is your competitive strategy, what they want to do. As far as we're concerned, we continue to make inputs, continue to No progress and they continue to drive their growth. So at some point the product things may Change and in terms of the company, it may come down, but even otherwise also. As long as we're able to grow in double digit growth and able to return the EBITDA margin, It's okay.
Competitors are being there and they continue to grow overall pall add to the overall category. So what we are focusing on, what we can do in our control, continuous product innovation and execution, drive WDP growth, By the EBITDA margin and it all pay off in the long term.
Sure. My last question is in terms of the Organizing structure perspective, have you recruited any senior people, strategic people in the management team, any changes in the team?
No, nothing. We have a again, there is no addition every year, but there are strong year shifting.
Okay. So no major changes? No, management. Okay, fine. Thanks.
Mishi, all the best.
Just wanted to note just wanted to tell you that recent change has been that We have included our CMO, Arjun Bhatia, the recent addition to the leadership team. Thanks, Sushant. Yes, the last year we added, yes. And what is his profile? It was a marketing hit for Samsung and it joined us here.
Okay, fine. No problem. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Manish Poddar from Nippon India AIF. Please go
ahead. So just wanted to check if you can slice or dice this marketing spend of INR137 crores. How much would be, Let's say pure play marketing and how much would be, let's say, for transactions or anything like that?
Most of the spend And you should turn that TV advertisement. So probably around the 70% or something like that goes on TV advertisement, the balance goes on digital auto forms.
So none of this amount is let's say really done for any convergence per se, it is just for awareness person?
Yes, it's awareness because there are market obviously, there's competitors upgrading the heavy, so we have to counter that. So mostly on the team, 70% is or 70 plus percent are team. So if you have to digitally up to say what is the conversion now, That's also 30%. There also because of the competitive activity, we had to spend more because people have been bidding for our keywords and sort of that pushes The price, otherwise even there also, spending would have been less.
Okay. And just one last one. So let's say, I haven't checked the numbers for the last But let's say, you'll be giving certain discounts or let's say there will be difference between the gross and the net in terms of revenues. So, which will be used for convergence, let's say, for discounts for consumers, how is that number trended over the last 3, 4 years?
Look, I know it's just we hear that ARPU has come down because we have that pricing strategy. Again, we don't have standard price, while there is a vacate according to the market, according to the customer, different price being given to the customer. So, while the last year, till last year, what Alco has gone up, which year, we kind of DARP has come down on account of differentiated price for various customers.
So let me put it the other way around. Have you taken any price increase in the last 2 years?
No, no, no. Price has been the same.
So prices in static, whatever ARPU decrease we would have seen will be a function of higher discounting?
Yes, this conference, yes, again, we're still waiting for market to market. You're right. Got it. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Devang Bhatt from ICICI Direct. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you for taking my question. I just wanted to know that our strategy was to grow the paid subscribers and pricing would be more or less stable. This quarter on Q on Q basis, our paid subscribers are flat And pricing has increased. So has there been some change?
And See, my second question is that given the lockdown and everything is announced and Despite doing our double digit billing growth, we are not able to grow our revenues in double digit. So Will we be able to grow a double digit revenue growth in FY 2022? Yes. Okay. I have two questions.
One is in terms of the ATV. The ATV is a function Because look at your personal services and include assisted and elite matrimony, we saw those business sort of Some of the bonds that happened in the business, so that also pushed our ARPU. Second thing that while we are looking at offering the right price, we continue to look at where to I know that you can get better ARPU also. So discounting is yes, we are able to possibly do the discount. I think we are able to try to get better ARPU also.
So for us, discounting is not the only strategy. I think if you look at one place we can get customer to subscribe for it. So again, as I said, the first point of Growth in the partnership is also during the outlook. In terms of the while that if you look at the Matchmaking side, We definitely look at this year, definitely look at the double digit growth. We believe that because once Q1, the revenue side also will be double digit growth.
So because now that because last year is because of the vending services, we almost had a because of Port Agra business was That was also pulling down our the year on year growth percentage. When we look at all the waiting services, the drop was almost Year on year drop of almost 80 percentage. So that has kind of pulled down our year on year growth at the enterprise level. So matchmaking at enterprise, I think this year We put a double digit growth in the revenue, revenue synergies. So we are expecting matchmaking services to be flat, more or less flat.
And non matchmaking, sorry, marriage services. Yes. Yes. And this matchmaking in double digit means in the high teens or mid teens? I mean, what should we expect in No, really, WTI because I don't want to give too much, we can only see the immediate future.
And vending services flat for this quarter, right? Now that we are saying that whole year is going to be flat, So because it currently is under long term, we don't expect the situation to continue to remain as it is. We expect in next 4, 5 months things will improve better on on our bidding services. So yes, in terms of matchmaking, how much of double digit growth? I'm not in a position this year at this point of time.
You can talk about Q1, which is the immediate vicinity because you know that the country going to unprecedented challenge and nobody would have expected that COVID, that wave 2 will be so severe. Because we're all preparing for the better things and suddenly things gone haywire. So I think we want to be cautious at this point of time. Let's see how the situation, Dallas, probably 1 quarter down the line, we'll be in better position to come upon. But my question was on FY 2022, like Yes, yes, yes.
On FY 2022 terms, I mean, I know in Q1, 1st quarter might be weak, but when we catch up in FY 2022, would we be able to, I mean, grow? Plus, Even in the past 2, 3 quarters, we have done despite our billing growing double digit, we have only done single digit growth in matchmaking services.
Actually,
the thing about the matchmaking business, while the billing has been growing double digit Because of the Q4, it's where the FICO is pushed to this quarter. We definitely know Q1 also, we actually expect the billing and revenue growth in around possibly around 20% or so. So for the year, definitely, we expect both the building and revenue side will be double digit growth. What percent of double digit growth, I'm not going to personally comment at this when you talk about Q1, what you can see? Because Q1 will be double digit growth.
Great. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ronak Vohra from AUM Advisors. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. So
on a metric sense,
so earlier, what was our customer acquisition cost, Say, 5 years back and currently?
See, the fact is because most of our customer acquisitions are direct where we don't spend much money. Unlike other business that are completely dependent on digital market to acquire customer, the brands are sourced on. In fact, almost like My data users have come directly to our the portals are offered. So that's why the most are spend on few advertisements. Even for digital, most are spent on brand, begin our brands actually.
So it's not like other business where it's that you have to depend on Digital worker customers, not
The next question is from the line of Vivekananda Subbaraman from Amit Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, thank you very much for the follow-up opportunity. Could you give us some color on the Active users on your platform, has it grown at a similar pace as the transaction or and can you also Help us understand if the growth has been uniform across regions in the country or has it been faster in any 1 or 2 markets.
Because of the profile growth has been good. So we stopped publishing the actual data on profile. So we are not publishing information because of competitive reasons. And all I consider, we are having good growth across India, not to be in any particular job actually.
Right. Second question is on the revenue streams. So this offline versus online and You also have certain premium offerings. So could you discuss about growth across the revenue line items?
Again, we're not through the breakup. So again, we have probably give it a last time that we had a impact on The premium businesses during that lockdown or during the COVID situation, we like Natrimony. And I think it would start off kind of bouncing back. So basically, Charlie said that it's kind of getting back. That's one of the reasons it is also getting better in Q4.
But I was wondering regarding log tone, so but we continue to do well on the premium business.
And sorry, if I understand correctly, in the premium segment, your competitors are not just the other 2 self serve models, Right, they are with boutiques, right? Can you also help us understand the competitive landscape there?
They are also similar offerings. They are also personal service business. But when company late matrimony, well, yes, even the shawby also that they have the We couldn't take, but again, we pioneered this category almost 2 years ago. We definitely have a good brand emulate matrimony and a good number of Madakar, India. Yes.
So, Jeevan Sakhir also has the paclit cabins actually.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dipanshaid from Crystal Investments. Please go ahead.
Hi and thanks for the opportunity, sir. I have a question which is more of a strategic nature. Okay. So are you Slicing the data of users to see whether there are more users who are looking for their own marriage versus
That we see it. And so majority users What do you read of it? Yes. Majority users are The individuals only, that has been a growing trend. Today, only around 15% of profiles are created by parents And contrary to some people think that it's largely with their parents, but definitely Matchmaking parents also did get involved because marriage happened with the involvement of parents also.
But in terms of the people basing up onto the platform, 70% of the users are individual themselves, around 15% of the profit are created by parent, Balance 15 plus net profit, you're talking about siblings and you know, just creating a profile. So that's where the mix has been. It's largely driven by individuals taking the right partner and that has been a growing trend.
And your presentation has a data point from way back in 20 I know these are rough throws rather than auditable data, but it mentions that arranged marriages in India are at 80%. But in 2021, Is it like has it fallen to 30% or something? That's what I'm saying. No, no, no. I'm sure it hasn't, but that's I mean it's just a rhetorical way of
No, no, it can be individuals are trading a profile that's not mean that people just look at the kind of without the parents involvement they're getting married. Who is in the driver seat today? The singles themselves are right driver seat. They are creating a profile. They are contacting the prospects.
On the like the prospect, then obviously parents will get involved, Indian parent will get involved. The Indian parent will get involved.
I do want you to kind of find a logical link between my two questions. All I'm saying is, in India, if 80% people were going through arranged marriages in 2016, Has this started trending up or down and down drastically? That is what would worry me in terms of longer term prospects for your business.
No, no, that's what I'm telling. Basically, the arranged marriage is a term which is wrongly grossly misunderstood. I'm just trying to give a Yes.
So even if I'm
signing up
and looking for someone, I would still call that an arranged I'm okay with that, David.
Yes, yes. That's what what we mean to the Arin Maris because Arin Maris, that's from a point of view that understand Arin Maris was okay, Parents are choosing the boy or girl will get tired of the boy and the parent marriage. We call it parent marriage or we call it collaborative marriage. So who is it going to come together, parents and self? It doesn't matter.
Even the parents get a profile, it's happening with the constant involvement of the young child. It doesn't matter who is on diversity. The majority of the people are looking for Life on a individual themselves. Once we started the prospect, look, I got back to Bharatnatimoney.com. I get a profile.
I contact them, I want. But I also got my parents in on the right stage. So I call it a collaborative marriage. I think the marriage in the form of India has evolved from what it was 20th ago. Today, I call it as Collaborative matchmaking or participatory matchmaking.
So both the stakeholders are having the involvement and the participation of both the stakeholders. All initial drivers today, large is single. Once they like the process, parents get involved, they do the follow the process, what are the process to be followed, visiting the other side And understanding the breakout room and the marriage happen if they're concerned about, concerned involvement on the stakeholder. So in a way like this is also called it, arranged by individuals themselves with the involvement of
Thank you.
Okay. I'm able to conduct.
Any plans of going beyond marriage in terms of verticals, So not even dating? I know that sounds less serious than marriage, but maybe there's a different brand that you can make there. You're sitting on INR 2.80 crores of cash.
Any thoughts?
No. I think the dating is a completely different category. We in fact we did have a dating offering. We studied that market. Our view is that See that getting more like you know the cash flow relationship and the yield growth is different, getting a female involved, working was a challenge, the monetization has been a challenge And people use it for different reasons.
Unlike Matrimony is a very clear audience, clear intention and the people culturally aligned. So that is we don't expect the dating sites going to be a large offerings or large market. There are limited offerings and then it is for limited purpose. So we don't think the matrimony sorry, dating media are large category. So we don't intend to get into that category, continue to focus on that.
Thank you, Mr. Shait. Maybe we request that you return to the question queue for follow-up questions. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Daha Siamwala from Piper Sertica Advisors.
Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. Can
you sir Hello? Hello? Yes, please, please, please. Yes. Hello?
You're audible, yes. Hello? Yes, you are audible. Please go ahead.
What was the changes in ARPU for the quarter and the year?
See the ARPU change for the quarter was it's INR 4,667 which has taken off a decline of 9.6% per blade year on year, but compared to the previous quarter, It's up by 6.4 percentage. For the whole year, the ARPU from 5,061 dropped to 4,578. Okay, okay. Thanks. That was the only question.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Keshav Lalouti from Antics Stock Broking. Please go ahead.
Hello. So I just want to ask one thing. How should the pricing may out in FY 2022? This year, although pricing have taken a hit, do you think it will stabilize or more downwards It's possible. So pricing probably in the similar lines Renaud, the call may be slightly get better also.
So as I told you, we continue to look at ways to Drive conversion, at the same time look at ways to increase our margin, better possible without compromising our ability to convert those reimbursement to pay I want to understand what gives you confidence maybe pricing might improve from here because the weak competition is It's picking up in no way it is getting down. In fact, it is getting more aggressive. So basically, as I said, we continue to execute well and continue to innovate, continue to offer various So, I should know while they know it's difficult to comment on what competition whether or not the country. I think we are focused on our growth, we are
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pratik Kumar from Antics Stock Broking. Please go ahead.
Yes, thank you. Just a related question on marketing, sir. So like getting into FY 2022 And things are relatively tougher for every industry. So how has the marketing spend sort of panned out for us? And how do you see it for industry overall?
Is industry trying to save on marketing in FY 2022? Or what are other avenues where industries like I mean like we are like sort of looking to save for in FY 2022?
No, I think we have done the FY21 was good in terms of EBITDA efficiency. And I don't expect that this the whole thing going to continue beyond this quarter. I think things will come back to better levels beyond the Q1 in terms of The country, so I don't think it's going to be a any lockdown that kind of situation. And if at all anything happens, you look at that part and you see that report temporary this quarter thing. And if it continues, probably look at what can be done to try to put all any on the cost side.
But in terms of marketing, we believe that we'll be operating at a similar level, What is level of Q4 possibly? That's the outlook we have currently. So I believe that setup Maybe good enough, but again, it depends.
And just final question from my side, There was recently it was covered in media that KTM and several other organizations, Indian startups are coming together to form a local So, is there any update on that?
It's not the local Play Store, meaning there is a I think that we're lobbying because today Google controls the enterprise load and the things that because Nogeta Indian users are anti users. The thing is that the Google pricing policies are forcing that they are doing with Google and not building with that type of thing. Good to have some alternative to our government offering some kind of the download platform so that people are not The intent company in India not restricted by Google being the only platform to where customer can go and download. So there is some bit of lobbying or some bit of not more lobbying or communicate with government that it's good to have always the Google having a little control of things that you know. So feel that sometimes we are at that sort of midyear of Google in terms of many things.
So we could have some kind of Offerings are government stepping in so that they are able to maintain that neutrality or
Thanks, sir. That's it from my side.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thanks, Faiza. Thank you, Pratik, for hosting this call, And thank you all for joining this call. If you have any questions, you can write to us. Meanwhile, stay safe and healthy, And take care. Thank you all.
Thank you all and have a nice evening.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Antec Stock Broking Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.