A very good morning and warm welcome to PB Fintech Ltd. Earnings Call for Quarter One Financial Year 2025-2026. Today we have with us Mr. Yashish Dahiya, Chairman and Group CEO PB Fintech, Mr. Alok Bansal, Executive Vice Chairman PB Fintech, Mr. Sarbvir Singh, Joint Group CEO PB Fintech, Mr. Santosh Agarwal, CEO Paisabazaar, Mr. Mandeep Mehta, Group CFO PB Fintech, and I'm Rasleen. I request Yashish for his introductory notes.
Thank you very much Rasleen. Good morning to all and different good afternoons or good evenings from wherever you're joining. Thank you very much for joining. I just wanted to start today by first of all acknowledging and thanking our team not just for this quarter but for the continued years and years of very good work. What I mean by very good work is, number one, staying focused on what is right for the consumer, putting that center of everything we do and at the same time delivering every plan. I know we are broadly on plan but every plan, you know, becomes waste the moment you get punched the first time. Our team takes multiple punches every day and continues to, you know, hit plans which is never easy. I just wanted to acknowledge that right up and that goes for the entire 23,000 of us.
So, you know, thank you very much. Our total insurance premium this quarter was INR 6,600 crores, up 36% year on year. This was led by growth in basically the core protection business, specifically Health which grew at 65%, which is the highest in the last nine quarters. The core online insurance premium grew 35% with 46% from Health and term which is the protection area. Our consolidated operating revenue grew at 33% to INR 1,348 crores for the quarter. Core insurance was up 37% year on year. Core credit was down 22% year on year. Our renewal and trail revenue of the last 12 month rolling basis is at INR 725 crores, up from INR 506 crores last year, so about 43%. This you are seeing at a very consistent rate moving at about 43%.
For instance, the quarterly renewal revenue is at an ARR of INR 673 crores right now, up 47%. This is only for insurance. The insurance quarterly core revenue is at INR 673 crores, up 47% year on year. What you're seeing is the insurance revenue is actually been growing at about 47% right now. I don't expect it to be at 47% forever. This would be somewhere in the 45% range for the foreseeable future. This is a key driver of our long term profit growth. From a rolling 12 month perspective, the delta between four consecutive quarters has been increasing consistently and is now INR 218 crores. At an overall level, steady growth continues. For our core new insurance premium net of savings business, this is another metric which we have been highlighting for some time.
If you take the savings part out, our core business has been growing at plus minus of 40% now for nine quarters and we were at 42% this quarter. Our savings business has grown at more than 100% at times and is currently at about -5%. We continue to support to improve our customer onboarding and claim support services, and the insurance CSAT is consistently above 90%. Our credit revenue for the quarter is INR 102 crore and disbursals are at INR 2,095 crore. For the core online business, we continue to strengthen our leaderships in new initiatives with a revenue growth of about 50% year on year, with adjusted EBITDA margins moving from -12% to -6% with a 5% contribution now. PB Partners, our agent aggregation platform, continues to lead the market with 350,000 advisors.
We have moved the business increasingly towards smaller and higher quality advisors, and the growth is much higher in that segment. We are present now in 19,000 pin codes, covering 99% of the pin codes in India. Our UAE business along with our Health business is another, you know, star outperformer in the group. They have been growing at 68% year on year, and they have now been profitable for the last two quarters. That is starting to become quite consistent. Our consolidated PAT for PB Fintech grew from INR 19 crore excluding exceptional items last year to INR 85 crore, so basically from 2% to 6% margin.
To summarize our performance since the listing, our revenue has grown at a CAGR of 54% from INR 238 crore in Q1 FY 2022 to INR 1,348 crore in Q1 FY 2026, and our PAT margin has grown from -47% in that quarter in Q1 FY 2022 to 6% in Q1 FY 2026. Of course, we have seasonality, so Q1 is usually our weakest quarter. That is just the way the industry is. I'd be very happy to take questions now. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Yashish. We'll take a minute for questions to queue up. Please raise your hand and I shall request you to unmute yourselves. We take the first question from Sachin Salgaonkar BofA so far. Sachin, please unmute yourself.
Thanks Rasleen. Hope I'm audible. Thank you. Management, I have three questions. First question, want to understand again, how is management thinking in terms of balancing between growth and profitability?
Clearly, as Yashish indicated, for last seven.
Quarters we are seeing 40% + growth in terms of core business. When I look on a YoY basis, your core online EBITDA margin is largely flattish at 14%. Should we sort of look at this business that, hey, it's matured from a margin perspective and management is focusing in terms of growing at 30 or 40% plus going ahead, or should we also continue to see a margin improvement plus the growth out here? That's question one. Let me pause here and pass it on to you guys.
Cool. We were taking all three and then answered. Q1 is actually fairly straightforward. Our focus for the time being is entirely on growth. Yes, we will deliver profits, but there will be an outcome rather than. We are clearly not optimizing for profits right now. There will be a point when we will perhaps optimize for profits.
I hope that is as late as possible because we want to. Don't get me wrong here guys, because this is not meant to be a statement of any sort. We're not trying to, you know, we are a profitable company. We will keep becoming more profitable, but that will be a natural course for a while. Of course, if we wished, we could have a lot more profit right now. Our bias is entirely towards growth.
Whenever there's a call we have to make on can we make this investment and maybe there's a doubt that it will help us in terms of growth or not, we will more often than not make that investment and err on the side of having taken on extra cost and not being able to deliver the growth rather than having the growth opportunity and not being able to deliver because we did not take on a particular cost. That's the state we are in now. Just to, you know, starting to specifically get into whether that's a sign of us maturing or that's a sign of us being young. I think that's a sign of us being young. You could take it whichever way because I think there's an easy part, which is to deliver the higher profits, which we can do at any stage.
It's clearly not the stage to do that. It's like, you know, a 14-year-old kid. Do I want the highest performance from him today or do I want him to train and have a lot of protein so that he grows into the future and becomes far stronger? I think we are in the stage where we are still growing into becoming a far stronger adult in the future. That is why, if any of you notice, when we talk about 2030, we start talking about a INR 1 lakh crore premium. We are not talking about profitability because for us that is the North Pole goal. We want to achieve growth and we want to achieve a certain scale, profits will automatically come.
Got it?
Very clear, Yashish.
That was question one, question two. Question to Santosh. Wanted to understand if there is any change in strategy at Paisabazaar since.
You've taken over clearly market especially on.
Credit lending on unsecured continues to remain soft. I know you guys were exploring and focusing a bit more on secured. It would be great to understand from you broad changes in strategy since you've taken over Paisabazaar.
I think three things. One, that we are growing the secured area and you'd see that secured has actually come up well. From a dispersal overall perspective, we.
Are growing wide, wide.
The other bit is, I think, doing more of, I would say, this. We have a lot of existing customer base. About 5.3 crore customers are on our platform. We want to monetize that traffic for other products as well. You'll see us doing savings. We've already launched bonds, we've already launched fixed deposits. You'll also see us do mutual funds in a while. I think that is another area that we are investing in. Third, I would say, is building a lot of alternate data sources to basically sharpen our risk ability, our ability to underwrite better and help our partners underwrite better. That is one area we are heavily investing in. The sharpness in risk and being able to qualify a customer better for credit, that is, I would say, the third area that you will see us do a lot of work in.
You will see us now doing collections, you're seeing us now doing bill payment, etc. A lot of that really builds up from a deep risk capability.
Thank you. Thank you, Santosh.
Thank you. Last question, off late, there appears.
to be some increase in competitive intensity.
From some of the smaller players and platforms in the new initiative space, wanted to understand, you know, are you guys seeing any competitive intensity and any impact of that we could, you know, which could be visible on the numbers.
I think you may be speaking about the POSP platform, so I'll just defer to Sarbvir Singh on that.
I think, Sachin, I would say this has been a very competitive space all around. I don't see anything very dramatic that has changed over there. I think there's a whole bunch of people who've been competing, and I think the basis of competition has to shift. We have to focus on more granular business and work with smaller partners.
Add value to them.
I think that's the race. It's no longer, actually, if you ask me honestly, it's no longer a competitive issue. It's an issue of can we add value to our agent partners and how much, so that we can all have better economics.
I just wanted to add there more from an outside in perspective. I believe every market with scale starts to become more and more real. That market in a way started with any scale is equal and any scale is okay. I think slowly the understanding is coming within the investor community as well that, look, granular business is better and business quality is important, and I think people are able to assess that better. For us, quite genuinely, me and Sarbvir were discussing this before our call as well, as the market matures towards reality, we benefit because we are in, in reality, we are actually quite a, you know, player that does the right things anyway. I would say that's the kind of state at play. I think the market is becoming more and more real, and that plays to our favor
very clear.
Thank you guys and all the best.
Thank you, Sachin. We'll take the next question from Suresh Ganapathy, Macquarie. Suresh, please unmute yourself.
Thanks, Rasleen. You know, just one main question.
Is now that Health has done so well and of course term has always been doing well for you guys, what would be now your market share in these two products? Yashish, if I were to take retail.
Health premiums overall in the industry, what.
Would be PB Fintech's and also on.
The retail term, roughly, if you can state those numbers.
I'll try to, but I'll state something else a little before that because I've been thinking deeply about this. The year Policybazaar started, the total Health and term business in the country was about, for retail, was about INR 200 crore. If we thought market share at that time, and actually there was an investor that time, Suresh, I won't name them, but they said, listen, the total market is INR 200 crore. If you guys are 30% of this market, that's a INR 60 crore opportunity. Why should we invest INR 20 crore behind a business like that? They said they left it out before, did not know what the Health and term market was, and so they did invest and, you know, they kind of reaped the benefit. I think we are not in the market share game, and I think that's a very important statement to make.
We are in the market creation game. Since you asked the question, the very specific answer would be, I think in Health we would be, of the fresh retail business, we would be somewhere about, maybe somewhere about 15%. 15% or so. In term, we would probably be a quarter of the business in the country. Quite genuinely, we don't think in those terms. We just think in terms of our own scale, and if anything is coming. I'll tell you how we think about it. We think in India there is just 340 million people who earn sub of about INR 1 lakh as a family, and they can't afford the current Healthcare solution because everything is getting hard. Games is getting hard, prices are getting hard, everything is tough for them.
We hope we can play a very meaningful role in enabling Health insurance for them with our partners, and in so doing, make Health insurance a much larger industry than it potentially can be in the next four, five years. Should we be a participant in that? We should have a significant part of that growth. That is really how we think. I think currently it is a little stuck as an industry, but yeah, 15% and 25%, those would be the real numbers.
In savings you would be how much?
Maybe 2% or so.
2%? No. The reason why I'm asking,
about 5% of the non LIC maybe, but about 2% overall.
Okay, okay, 5% of non LIC. Okay, that's clear.
No, the reason why I'm asking this is you guys. I know these questions keep getting asked, but you guys have done a very.
Good job about your growth being at 36%.
I know you guys have also been.
Realistic that longer term you believe we should grow twice the or medium term, twice the industry may be closer to about 30%.
The problem that I have got is that you are already 25% of the term market, and I don't think the.
Term market is growing beyond 15% and should be held.
You know, when you are already at such a high market share and the industry growth rate itself is curtailed, it is becoming difficult to digest that you can even grow at 30% when the overall market growth is stunted to some.
Extent is that is my assessment, right?
How do you look at that?
Suresh Is a very fair way of thinking about it.
I wouldn't expect any outside person to think any differently. That is not how we have ever thought about it. That's the point I was trying to make, that when we started in 2008, the total business was only INR 200 crore and nobody expected it to grow very rapidly if we had thought that way. I'll make one statement, right. I'm sure you have a market projection, let's say, of the next 10 years for both Health and turbulence, whatever that market projection is. Our belief is Policybazaar alone will be bigger than that market projection over the next 10 years. That is the gap, right? The gap is we are coming at it from there is an opportunity out there. We feel we are better placed at solving that opportunity, and if that opportunity is solved, the market will actually grow much faster.
We also believe there are two parts of the market. We believe we are a contributor to the growth of the market. As we become bigger and bigger, the market actually does start to grow faster. You heard, for example, you heard one of the public players go out there and say that, look, our digital business is growing at 73%, right? It's not like yes, we are growing, but the digital business of the entire industry is growing, and somewhere this.
This is a phase shift.
That part of the business is perhaps going to grow faster because perhaps it has better disclosures, perhaps it has better, you know, cost controls at the back end. There are things that are happening which make it a more viable business. All I'm going to say is there's a more sustainable way of doing business and that sustainable way doesn't have a scale problem and there's a kind of non-sustainable which does have a scale problem.
There's one last question on the savings thing. I'll just squeeze in.
You are right now 2% of.
The market, but it's stuck around that.
For quite some time, Yashish, right, and the growth has not been great here. I mean that's an enormous opportunity because.
80%, 85% of the market is savings business. What's wrong here or what's getting stuck?
Here is to why you're not able.
To do this at a fast pace.
Suresh, I'll just answer that question once and then I'll hand over to Sarbvir. At IPO we were at 0.4%. We're at 2% now. In three years we have moved from 0.4% to 2%. I think Sarbvir is perhaps better placed at why we are at 2% and not at 15% like Health, etc.
Yeah, thanks Yashish. I think it's a very difficult question to answer on an open forum. I would say that, you know, you have to look at it from a relevant perspective. If you look at ULIPs, if you look at the better quality products that are sold, I think our share is more meaningful and we always believe, in line with what Yashish was explaining on Health and term, that in the end the better quality products will win and they will become a greater and greater part of the market. As that happens our growth will also come. I think it's an enormous long term opportunity. We have entered the pension area in the last 12 months. I think slowly but surely we are building a very robust business in that side.
You would agree that pension is a very big opportunity in the country and it is going to be an issue for the next 10, 15, 20 years. I think we are building such, I would say anchor legs. We are selling very high quality products. I would encourage you to look at a slide that we have in the deck which actually shows that some of the low cost products that we sell on a cost basis are lower than mutual funds. From a time when ULIPs were discredited and there was a concern around cost structure, etc., to a point where they are now in the long run actually better than mutual funds. I think we are moving.
It takes time, you know, it will take time for these lower quality products to come through and when they come through, I think we will, you know, all these questions about market share, etc., will become less relevant. It's a game of patience. Now I would look at.
Thanks so much, sir.
Thank you, Suresh. We'll take the next question from Sanketh Godha, Avendus Stock. Sanketh, please unmute yourself.
Thank you for the opportunity. Just again on that Health point. See, we know that underlying industry is not growing. You deliver 65% growth in the current quarter. Is it fair to tell that large part of your growth was driven because you have a higher contribution to long term policies? Because that materially improves the growth for you? On that line, just wanted to understand, given you have chosen to take commission in a deferred way in the long term policies, is it fair to say that your take rates, because you have chosen to take in a deferred way, will be better when you recognize on upfront basis on revenue? That's my first question.
Sanketh, on the revenue part I will defer to Sarbvir, I just wanted to answer one question not just for you but for everybody.
When we say we've grown at a particular rate, our number of transactions has actually grown faster than that. That lays to rest all kinds of questions like has ATS grown faster, has number of, have you done multi year policies more than last year. All of those questions get laid to rest. I will answer one last thing which just came to my mind. It's not because one customer is buying three policies. It is simply because that can also happen. The simple question is we are adding more customers than ever before and our number of customers added is growing at a faster rate than our premium growth. After that I will, just because this is something I obviously check, Sarbvir can answer the question on the commission side and the cash flow side.
Sanketh, I think as Yashish I just again say it simply, there are no games in this 65% number. This is based on number of policies going up, number of lives covered going up. Our multi-year share is roughly the same as it was last year, in fact in decimal points here and there. We get paid as per the rules on a yearly basis. That has not changed our outlook towards that business in any way. That is how we are continuing. I think if I were to actually answer your question, maybe the real question that you're asking as to what is driving this growth, then I would say that three things. One is people have, I think customers have seen the value that Policybazaar brings in terms of comparison, in terms of having more efficient products.
They are buying those products, they are getting a better customer experience both in the policy issuance process and at the point of claim. That is in turn creating a positive word of mouth. Our marketing is, if you see, our marketing is totally talking about how people are being benefited at the point of claim. I think that both, it's a virtuous circle right now. As Yashish said right up front, I would say that our teams are doing an outstanding job. We have set up regional presence. We have free to team. I think every part of the business is firing and I think that's why you are seeing the results. So far it looks like it's a very robust performance.
Okay, thanks for that one. The second question, just wanted to check on the new initiatives contribution margin which every quarter seems to be improving. Today it is at 5.3% for the quarter one. Can you give a bit of color of this 5.3% broken down into POSP, UAE, and Corporate, where this delta improvement in the contribution margin in new initiatives is coming from? Maybe if you can break this 5.3% number.
Sure, sure. I'll explain. See, there are three aspects to it. I don't know if we want to give out all the specifics right now, but UAE has become profitable and obviously that contributes to the margin. In fact, I think UAE and Corporate kind of balance each other, so they together become very close to zero.
POSP has been improving in margins, it has been growing in scale and improving in margins, and it's just the quality of business they are doing and they are constantly transforming towards smaller and smaller partners. Overall, I would say, look, if you want directionally, there's a likelihood that next year we should be very close to, you know, numbers which have become meaningless from a profit or loss perspective, both from a new initiative perspective. We don't want to hold ourselves to it. As I have always said, we could end up being a bit countercyclical in this because we do want market share and I don't think we will hold ourselves back for any short term profit delivery target. We will always do what we think is best for the long term strength of the business. That's the sort of story there.
Yes.
The reason I'm asking is this 5.3% can, say, improve to, say, by end of FY 2027, around 7.5%-8% or you assume this number to hold up at the current levels.
I would say next year you should expect it to be about zero. I don't know, were you asking from a more short term perspective than next year or anything?
Even in long term, say FY 2030, if you really want this number, the contribution margin or EBITDA margin, how do you look this business to play out,
maybe a few percentage points.
There isn't that much margin in a.
Please understand a POSP business. I've explained this and you know this very well, Sanketh. It's basically a pass-through business. When you have your revenue, a bulk, see, it's somebody else's business which you are providing them a tech layer for. Your revenue accounting is essentially for the entire business, right. Yes, you are getting a commission of, let's say, INR 100, but of that, INR 85, INR 90 is going to somebody else. Eventually, as a percentage of revenue, only about 10%, 15%, whatever, is staying with you. In that, you have to incur all your costs. It can't be, you know, it can't be like the core business.
Right.
Yes, it can deliver something. I would say let's see, we're not putting pressure on that, but I would suspect maybe something like a 5% point should appear at some point. Whether it happens by 2030 or 2029 or 2031, I don't know.
Okay.
Okay.
Basically, long term you believe this is a 5% adjusted EBITDA margin.
Business in that sense.
Let's see, let's see. Yes, yes, why not?
Got it. Lastly, a few data keeping points. If you can give a premium breakup of POSP, corporate, and UAE. UAE we have, but maybe POSP, corporate if you can give. Second, in new initiatives revenue of INR 514 crore, can you break it down into insurance and credit?
Yeah. Corporate is INR 430 crore. POSP is almost INR 1,300 crore. UAE you already have. What did you want? You wanted
new initiatives revenue of INR 514 crore broken down into credit and insurance. That much I don't have here. Maybe the Rasleen can ask that offline or something. I don't know. Perfect. Not a problem. That's it for my side. Thank you.
Thank you, Sanket. We'll take the next question from Shreya Shivani, CLSA. Shreya, please unmute yourself. Yeah.
Hi.
Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. Just on the data keeping question, you had given us the PB Partners revenue quarter of INR 55 crore. Have you shared the equivalent number for 1Q? My second question is also again on the data on ESOP cost. We were following a certain trajectory. The ESOP cost, which has come in at about INR 55 crore. Can you help us understand what would be the outlook for the next two years?
Probably.
Now my two main questions apart from this are, first is on the non-ULIP savings business and we had indicated that we are considering certain other sectors or certain other segments where we would want to expand into. Can you elaborate anything incremental on that? My second question is, while I appreciate the part that for growth you would want, you are prioritizing growth and for that your expenses are up in this quarter, what I see is that your expenses outside contribution have picked up faster than the expenses within contribution. I just wanted to understand how does this pan out when you start the year? How does it pan out that if it is for growth, shouldn't the expenses within the contribution have scaled up? I am just trying to understand how does the match work out. Thank you.
Sure.
No, thank you. PB Connect is INR 43 crore this year. It was INR 50-something and there's a bit of seasonality in that. On the non-ULIP, we had an aspiration to grow into pensions. Please appreciate, pensions was almost zero last year. It's about 15% of our savings business now and getting bigger, of course. Char, I don't know, you want to say something specific on that?
Yeah. I mean charity plans are only lift chassis only, so they're not much.
When you think about ESOP charges, basically if the management performs, which I think we are all working very hard and we will, then the management must be rewarded. I have zero doubts there. The only thing we can say, and that's what came across in our ESOP thing, is we will only get rewarded when over a long period of time, over a five year, eight year period, the stock price also does well. Of course, we are getting rewarded in terms of our basic compensation, but our ESOP compensation is largely linked to our share price performance over the long term. We are aligned with investors in that respect. Yes, it will over time increase and decrease, that's okay. It will be associated with the sort of price movement. We have new initiatives.
In new initiatives, because they are not yet profitable, the management team's long term incentive planning is linked to the profitability of those businesses. The only number that matters to the management is not from a short term perspective. It's with an eight year view. Their entire ESOP, or whatever you want to call it, long term incentive plan, is all linked to those businesses becoming profitable and significantly profitable because that is when they make serious money on expense planning. What you have as a contribution and non-contribution line, there's also brand out there and sometimes in a brand, one month we may do something extra, one month we may not do enough. Over the year, the cost will not grow in line with our revenue. It will grow at maybe about two thirds of our revenue growth or so.
Increments are something that hit every quarter, so every year, but they hit in Q1. When the increments happen, you can have some impact coming from that. That is how it is. If any detail is needed, I'm sure the scheme can provide that. That is how the planning happens. Of course, before the beginning of the year, we do have a plan. Obviously, we don't just have a plan, we kind of have a multi-year plan usually, and we give out some of those numbers to the market like we did about four or five years ago, about a 2027 profitability. Today, we are broadly starting to talk about our 2030 premium numbers. More than that, we don't put out in the market in terms of our short term business plans. Our intent is not to have our fixed cost growing faster than our revenue. Of course not.
Got it. Sorry, I probably missed, I didn't understand. On the pensions, you mentioned that you've already started scaling up the business versus it being at zero last year.
Right.
That's the only product that you've decided to go ahead.
There are two products. See, at a fundamental level, when you think about insurance, there are four products that matter to Social Security. There are actually five, but I'll talk about all five. First is Health and pensions because you can fall ill, and if you get older, you need to cover yourself for pensions. The second is term and child education. If people die early, then they can have a problem with, you know, their family costs. That is term insurance. Just in case something goes wrong, people haven't planned adequately for their children's education. That can get affected. These four, and then to some extent, credit is another enabler of Social Security in various situations. Right. These are five products we focus on. Now, ULIP was a somewhat market-linked opportunity, did have a component, but our intent was always to sell more child education and pension plans.
I'll hand over to Sarbvir to explain that. There's been a beautiful transition in that over the last year.
Yeah, I think, Shreya, the way to think about it is that, you know, product is a means to an end.
Right.
I think ULIP, we believe, is a more efficient and in a growing country like India, equity is a better long-term solution. If you're trying to save money for 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, then equity is the most efficient solution. You can look at Indian equity returns over, I'm sure you guys know better than us, that over the last 10 years, any rolling basis, you will find that they tend to converge around 14%, 15%. That is the basic philosophy that we have. In that philosophy, we try to offer products for children, education, and just explained, we have created a pension line where we are talking about long-term savings for pension products. These are accumulation products. They have an annuity component. You can have straight out accumulation if you like. The third thing that we have focused on is protection of capital.
For a lot of people, the concern is that they want the upside of the market but they also want to protect their capital that they are investing. We have a capital guarantee solution which is comprised of a ULIP as well as a fixed return non-par product. I think these are broadly, I would say, the three big areas that we focus on over time. Especially as Paisabazaar gets into the savings area, we will look at forming more complete solutions for some of these areas. I think that's the direction we are going right now. We have no particular interest in going down other savings insurance products at this point.
Yeah, understood, understood. Just one follow up last over here. In this pension product, there's a slide where you've mentioned how many partners you have in savings and in Health insurance, etc. Almost all of the partners are offering the pension product or it's just at an essence stage and you're doing it with some partners. It's not 14 insurance partners.
Is that a correct way to think?
Sure. It's pretty much everyone. I think it's over 10 already, and whoever is left is slowly coming on board. I think everybody sees this opportunity, and I think we are presenting an attractive way of accessing that audience.
All right, this is very useful. Thank you and all the best.
Thank you, Shreya. We'll take the next question from Dipanjan Ghosh. Citi Dipanjan, please unmute yourself.
Hey.
Hi. Good morning everyone. Just a few questions from my side. First, in terms of your, would it be possible to quantify the sort of sales personnel or feet on street really supporting that journey, and how would that have scaled up over the past few quarters or years? Second, on the POSP side of the business, if you can quantify the mix between motor and non-motor, and if there is a strategy to increase a non-motor portion as your granularity of the franchise on the PB Partners side increases. Third is on the Paisabazaar side. You have mentioned at the start of the call that you will be introducing mutual funds out there. When we see the broader space, it seems that most of the platform players are kind of converging towards the stage where the focus is on mass wealth advisory, sort of a proposition.
Would broking be on the radar for you guys? Those are my three questions.
Actually, Sarbvir is better placed at answering at least the first when we come to Paisa. Both the Hybrid and the POSP.
Yeah, we have about, I would say almost 25% of our sales team present in over 200 cities where we offer feet on street capability. About 30% of our business comes from there.
Of our Health and life.
Yeah, of our Health and life
assisted.
Business, I would say.
I think that was on the FoS side. The second question was on PB Partners and granularity. I would just say on that two things. One is that the percentage of business that we are doing with smaller agents is growing, I would say every month. The contribution of them to the business is now almost 2/3rd or more of the business comes from people who are doing a very small amount of business every month. I think that to us is the most important metric. As we go forward, the second metric that matters is what are other things that these people are doing. One of the powerful parts of a platform is for an agent to be able to do other things.
If they sell Motor insurance, which mostly people do on our platform, can they sell some Health insurance, can they sell some PA cover, can they sell some life policies, etc. I think that part of the cross sell is also.
Continuing to grow every month.
I think those are the two things I would say at this point. I mean, wouldn't want to get into too much detail beyond this,
Paisa.
Also, I'll just hand over to Santosh to kind of answer the question about mutual funds and about more than that.
On the mutual fund side, I think the industry is growing at a 20% rate. If you see, there is still a lot of adoption coming from a Paisa perspective because we have a very young customer, and that customer needs both outside saving solutions and credit solutions. Having both on one platform makes the platform far richer from an engagement perspective and a solution perspective. When these customers come to our platform, we already know how much they save. We already have a PFM product called PB Money, so we did have access to what was the money lying in the bank account.
All we are doing is educating people to say, why do you want to keep money growing at 2.5%-3% when you can invest in equity, especially when you're young, and take benefits of the country that we are in and make money at least 12%-15% CAGR, which is something that this industry can generate for you. It is an extremely consumer-centric product, and we see a lot of interest. With just bonds being launched a month back, we are already at INR 1 crore AUM without any marketing spend. I think that also raises the confidence that there is a customer who's wanting to look at good savings solutions, and I think Paisa should be that platform.
See, I think it's very, very early days. Paisa right now has a dual challenge as I see it. One is they have a current quality of operations and a current quality of business which they are transforming very rapidly. Second is there is a future platform that's being built. I would encourage some of you to spend time on the PB Money part of Paisabazaar. That's there. It's in early stages. You see account aggregator platforms have really leveled the playing field in terms of what you can offer to consumers from access to their own banking data and access to their own investing data perspective. To some extent Paisabazaar is leveraging that to build up a platform with its own consumer base without further marketing. As I said, early days, I think this is going in many ways.
Corporate deposits, mutual funds, there could be some pension element here, there are various pieces coming along at this point, not a major revenue driver. The big revenue driver continues to be lending. I'll just share one thing and it's, I know you know businesses have financials and businesses have a soft part of it. Not the soft part, I call it the harder part of it as I interact with Paisa's partners. Now I've been interacting with quite a few. What I hear across the board is that your focus on quality of book has changed and they feel far more comfortable with us as we distribute for them into the future. That is the soft change one is seeing.
Also from a platform's perspective, what you are seeing is a lot of the backend platforms that Policybazaar had built which have a lot of integrated capability in them are somewhere being leveraged by Paisabazaar now because the Paisabazaar platforms were not of the same quality in terms of, you know, overall ability. Policybazaar is perhaps one of the world's best, you know, sales platforms whereas Paisabazaar was quite, you know, early stage in that. A lot of changes are happening in the background which should make good sense. On this part, very early days. I wouldn't account for too much in terms of what's going to happen in mutual funds or, you know, investment products.
Just one small follow up to Sarbvir, you mentioned 25% of your sales team is deployed in these 200 plus cities. What would this similar number have been, let's say, last year.
It's been growing, you know. I would say it would have been in the late teens, maybe 15%, 16%,
maybe even.
Maybe even 20%, maybe. I don't know. Yeah, now it is not growing at a very dramatic pace anymore. I think what is happening is it's deepening a lot more. You know, which city, how much, what kind of people, what mechanism. It's a little bit of an area where in some cities the call center person is taking calls and also doing physical meetings. In some cities we would have dedicated people who are only doing feet on street who get appointments. It's a mixed model. What you can see is it seems to have settled on the assisted businesses. About 30% of our business seems to be coming from physical meetings. This might grow a bit. I would say if you look three, four years out, maybe it's 50%.
Got it. Thank you everyone and all the best.
Thank you, Dipanjan. We'll take the next question from Nischint Kotak. Nischint, please unmute yourself.
Hi. Hope I'm audible.
Yes, yes.
Yeah, thanks. Just two questions. One is, what was the receivable figure as on June? I know you don't share the entire balance sheet, but if you just share this number,
receivable figure. Rasleen can provide that to you, but I wanted to, you know, I'm trying to understand the question behind the question. Look, there is going to be till September a little bit of drag on cash flow from normal course. That is because on the 1/n , the collection is on one by N basis. This is a cycle that's playing out since last September. It will play off till September this year. The other point is, of course, our Health is growing very rapidly and that is where this 1/n has some impact. At our scale, it's not material enough. It's just being digested in the flow is what I would say.
Rasleen can share the exact numbers.
Sure. The other one was on tax rate. If you could guide, your tax rate is, I think, closer to 7%, 8%. What sort of a tax rate would we be for this year and the next year? Could you give some guidance on that?
Yeah, Mandeep has got an opportunity to speak here.
Hi Nischint. Our tax is basically primarily, if you track Policybazaar, you will notice that we have accumulated losses, the carry forward losses benefit which is available to us right now. Whatever tax we are paying is largely on our investment income which we derive from investing our surplus funds. Otherwise, there's no special tax rate to us. This is normal nominal rate of tax which is applicable to all businesses. It's just a combination of business profits, other income, and carry forward losses.
Somewhere about 8% to 10% is, I think, the right number to assume for the next 18 months or so.
The profitability guidance that you have shared in the past, that assumes 8% to 10% tax.
You never have, have you ever heard us change our guidance, our long term guidance?
No,
that's it. If we haven't changed now, if we're so close to that, why would we change it now?
I'm not saying change. I'm saying that
it stays exactly the way it is. Nothing ever changes. Please appreciate we don't give short term guidance. We usually give these four figures, four, five years out. Let me give an example. Right now we're saying we want to do INR 1 lakh crore of insurance premium in 2030. What if we do 95? Is that bad?
Not really.
If we do 105, if you do 110, is that great? It's okay. The point is we observe, we should be there. We put out a goal which sort of feels good to everybody and we should be about there. Yeah, it's okay, I think. We feel confident, that should be fine. There'll be no challenge there. Now if people in their own mind assume it's going to be much more than that and much less than that, that's their minds working. That's not us staying in sync. Please do. I want to point out one thing in this. You will face challenges, like just to give you the operational part of it, in the year 2024 had a INR 64 crore profit, right? They may barely hit INR 64 crore in 2027.
Now when I put that out, obviously I thought in my back pocket I had INR 200 crore of profit from. Because if it's gone from now, maybe the quality of that wasn't as strong and that is why we are facing a challenge.
But.
These things will happen, and we have always factored in sufficiently when we give our long-term guidances for a few hits here and there. What I take heart from is not that gap on the side. What I take heart from is the quality of business is actually improving, and now we have control over the quality of business. I'm just trying to explain to you how when you're managing stuff, some things will go wrong, and you have to always factor for that.
And still.
Achieve your plans so your plans will always have a bit of buffer.
Got it? Got it. Fair enough. Thank you very much in all the place
and please appreciate, you know, our Health growth is not helping our short term profitability. That doesn't mean we don't do it. It will be almost too hard. Fresh air growth.
That's true. That's true.
Thank you, Nischint. We will take the next question from Nidhesh Jain, Investec. Nidhesh, please unmute yourself.
Thanks, Rasleen. I have two questions. First question is on trends on the Health insurance renewal take rates because we believe that as the vintage of the portfolio increases, the economics for that portfolio for Health insurance companies deteriorates. How do you think about the trends over longer term on the Health insurance renewal take rates?
Nidhesh, I will defer to Sarbvir for a more medium term answer. I'll explain to you in the long term. In the long term, we are responsible for our business. Whatever we say, whether we believe it, whether we don't believe it, at our scale, we will never be able to pass on even 1% loss to anybody. That is not a reason why anybody should work with us.
Our objective is to make sure we have a sustainable, profitable industry and we want to work with all our partners in making sure that our business stays profitable in the long run. We will never shirk away from being partners with them and taking on that responsibility and making sure. What we also expect in the long run is that as we do that, we also have more and more control over our destiny in the sense if it is our customers and we are in some way responsible for bringing down their claims ratios, then we should also be part of that in making sure that we help in that and we work in that direction. I think eventually the industry is getting more and more real. As I said, whenever the industry gets real, that actually benefits us.
I'll hand over to Sarbvir because he's the one who's kind of dealing with the situation on a regular basis.
I think Nidhesh, I 100% agree with whatever she said. I think there is no, I mean one can, it's always tempting to make predictions for this year, next year and all that, but the truth of the matter is that at this point we have a favorable fresh to renewal ratio. The quality of our book is better than I would say average. We are actively managing the book, whether in the short run in terms of disclosure, in terms of looking at different cohorts, how to manage that with our partners.
The final thing I would say is that all that we are doing on the PB Health side in a way is going in that direction where we are saying that the industry will go more and more towards preferred networks, work more with providers who are providing a more efficient outcome from a Health, both from a consumer perspective as well as from an economic perspective. I think over a period of time we are part of the change that the industry is going towards and the direction that the industry is going. I think in that scenario we will get our fair share of what is due to us. I don't particularly at this point see that being a huge challenge.
Having said that, if we don't take action and we don't move in the direction that we ought to, then definitely what you're saying is right, that there will be pressure on everything. I think that's how we look at it. It's a dynamic thing versus a static view of the world. I think we are moving directionally to solve these problems.
Thank you, sir.
Sure.
Can you also comment on the near term trends that we have seen in the renewal tick rates? Are they steady
at this point?
We have not seen any change.
Sure.
The second question is on credit business EBITDA margin and contribution margin for Q1. If you can share that
on the credit business. Santosh, let me try and do that. Or Rasleen do you want to just say.
It from contribution perspective here? 41% and adjusted EBITDA has been on for core. For credit it will be closer to 30%. On adjusted EBITDA margin basis it will be - 20%.
- 20%, right?
Yeah, [for] on an overall basis will be 14%.
See, when you look at the credit business as cycle term, till about July, August last year we benefited because of very high approval rates in the industry. Today we are on the opposite side of that. We have bottomed out, clearly we are on a month-on-month growth course. However, this is an issue you will see somewhere with our savings business and with our credit business. We are being benchmarked with our high marks. Our high marks were last year, August, September, and of course those were great positions. We've been now benchmarked against them and that's fine. I'm sure next year we'd be benchmarked against these lows, if anything they may or may not be lows. I think we are good to take that and we'll move in that direction.
As I said, on the savings side the great news is tensions, child plans becoming a much bigger part of the channel. On the credit side, the big advantage is we are now becoming very good quality partners with our suppliers. I'm increasingly hearing from our suppliers that, listen, on your old book I want to pay less but in a new book maybe we can pay a little more. That's a great sign because that implies they are more comfortable with the quality. Of course, it's early days but the focus is much steeper in terms of getting data pieces together, etc. Yes, with stress right now,
sure. Just one more clarification on the PB money. So the mutual fund that we will be originating, is it a free earning mutual fund or it's direct plans?
It's free earning.
Okay, thank you. That's it for my side. Thank you.
Thank you. Nidhesh, take the next question from Sachin Dixit, JM Financial. Sachin, please unmute yourself.
Yashish and team. I had a couple of questions. I know this question, at least the first one, has been answered in some.
Way or the other. Right.
My question on this is on the contribution margin side for core business, right. We have seen a YoY dip. Obviously, there are factors which you highlighted that you have been investing in things. Can you give us some drivers or some pointers onto what is driving this dip? At least on a YoY basis, renewal income should have come from last year and also there should have been a slightly upward trajectory, which is what we are anticipating.
In very simple terms, our renewal business has grown, but an equal amount is our fresh Health business, and our fresh Health business has grown faster. Our fresh Health business on a one-year EBITDA basis probably operates at - 20%. Our renewal business probably operates at 75%- 80%. Obviously, there is a trend upwards and this trend downwards. Clearly, that is the reality.
It is just that the trend which is coming from fresh Health growth is. The second part is credit. Sorry, if you are looking at the core business, because I was talking about just the insurance part, but if you are looking at the credit business, I think the insurance part is stable. I think it is at 43. It was at 43. It is the credit business which is on the negative, and that is what has caused the problem.
Understood, understood. My second question is a bit more time.
Credit business has lost about 15% on the contribution margin.
Fair enough, fair enough. My second question is on basically a slightly higher level, right? In the presentations, you have highlighted how the penetration of life and non-life insurance is happening, right? What we see is that the penetration has now dipped back to FY 2018 odd levels.
PB Fintech has done quite a lot, has grown quite well during the same time period. What do you think is actually plaguing the Indian insurance sector? How do we recover out of this? How do we actually play the insurance.
Story in the long term?
I think we can only speak for ourselves and I would say we are part of the solution. The solution is complex. It's never a straightforward solution in India. It always looks like it's very straightforward. The moment you get into the 400 million Indians who are in that zone of earning under INR 100,000 a year, but they are the middle class and they are the aspirational class and they do not. They want their children to do much better than themselves. They invest in child education, they want to make sure that they have Health coverage, all those things. The moment you speak about that segment, it is not a simple solution because on one side they are seeing price hikes, on another side they are seeing stress on claims, solving the news. There's nothing I need to say there. That's the reality of the situation.
They are looking for solutions. That is where I believe exactly what Sarbvir said, that somewhere Policybazaar is coming out as their handholder. Who can help at the point of claims? Who can help at the point of issuance? Who can give them the right guidance, who also keeps them on the right path in terms of disclosures and overall is part of the solution and a that grows the industry doesn't have a lack of opportunity. I think our solution may have had challenges with circumspectness, with covering all the different angles. As we start to cover all the different angles and a solution does appear, I don't think that has a challenge in terms of growth. Somewhere you're going to see a big transformation towards a more viable, more growing, more stable industry. Today our nominal GDP growth rate we were discussing, right.
In 10 years our nominal GDP is triple for the country. There is no reason why insurance should not have been 6x or 10x given the under penetration levels. I think that's absolutely achievable as long as the right solution gets created in a very circumspect manner. That's challenge. It's not an easy trivial problem to solve.
You know one other thing, just think about insurance in a product. Eventually you're getting into a contract where both sides have to be through schools and if the disclosures are not up to the level it's required, that impacts the whole claim experience as well. It's a very tough situation for the industry. You're right, people need to get this product early on in their career, in their journey, but somewhere, you know, they think of the product very, very near to the actual claim incidents, and that obviously doesn't help anyone.
It will be more about education. It will take time. We do what we do, as he said, in terms of creating awareness, in terms of fraud control, in terms of higher disclosures, now trying to help customer with the claim for last couple of years, trying to look at the garage network, hospital network, everything. We are still a very small part of the total industry. We can do what we can do.
Sure. Thanks, Alok. This is my final question on the Healthcare Fourier side. We have not heard much, so any update will be helpful. Thank you and all the best.
Nothing much.
The work is going on in terms of both creating the whole Healthcare service layer, which includes hospitals as a physical part and a lot of other stuff from the tech solutioning, from the research GP layer, from creating a lot of solutions which can keep patients outside the hospital. It's a slow build in that sense. It will take us another few quarters to get everything in place, and that's when the real impact starts to come in.
See, the way to think about any of these stuff that we do, whether it's PB Health or Garage network or a lot of stuff that you heard about the credit space that we are trying to do today, is not to do immediately something which is going to impact in next quarter or two quarters, but planning for next few years of how we see industry shaping up, and we need to be ready when that opportunity appears. This will take time. I think in about a year time we'll start to see some impact. You'll have to give us almost a year from now.
Sachin, just to kind of answer that question, we already have a consumer base. What should we be doing with our consumer base?
People who are not very well, we should start working with them and trying to make sure they take the right steps to stay out of hospital. We should start to guide our people at the point of renewals towards narrow networks. We should start to guide our people, our consumers, and I say our people, our consumers, towards using hospitals appropriately in terms of different care pathways at home care, daycare, secondary care, tertiary care. I think you will see us acting on all those steps which are absolutely integrated into making Health insurance more viable for the same consumers and giving them a great walk-in walkout experience. Please do appreciate whatever I said, all of that does not necessarily require us to be in the physical infrastructure.
You will see the whole thing playing out and a lot of actions that will happen even before the physical infrastructure comes into place. I think as you see the next few quarters, you will hear a lot more action happening from our side on that front along with our partners. I think we as an industry need to work together in this, in solving this problem.
Got it. All the best. Thank you.
Thank you, Sachin. We'll take the next question from Madhukar Ladha. Madhukar, please unmute yourself.
Hi.
Morning.
Thank you for taking my question. If I calculate the renewal.
Insurance score, online renewal revenue take rate, I'm not seeing any improvement there. I would have expected some improvement over there given that over the years we've been selling more Health.
What exactly is.
Causing this drag?
Second, if I look at the indirect.
Cost of the new initiatives that have grown pretty sharply in this quarter.
My calculation suggests that that's grown about 41% year- over- year.
I wanted to get a sense of what is driving this.
On a continuing level, what should that sort of number be? Third, on Health business.
Is growing really well for us, and we're seeing that new business Health growth is at 65% year -over -year.
I wanted to get a sense of, you know, what is the port.
In business over here, how much of the portion is from within our customer base, you know, opting for a new sort of insurer, and how much of the portion is from outside our.
Sort of customer base who are coming to us.
That would be my three questions. I have some data keeping questions also, which I'll go later.
On the renewal take rate, FY 2024, we were at 6.5%. FY 20225, we were at 6.7%. Now we're at 6.9%. These are not going to change dramatically, but they are sort of on the way up if anything. That is reflective of the fact that Health is becoming a larger part of the renewal base.
In APE terms, that's not always—I mean, APE terms, you know, it remains
pretty stable.
Because you know, our renewal rates on life are also very high.
Yeah. What happens is that Health vintage renewal rates, you know, take rates are obviously lower than the first year renewal take rate. There are lots of puts and takes. I would not, I mean, I think you're going to a level of detail which is hard to model from the outside. That's the only reason. Otherwise, as Yashish said, they have inched.
Upwards over the years
in terms of
over the years.
Yeah, that's right.
I was just looking at it.
On a year over year basis like Q1 to Q1. I get your point that
yes, look at these things on a rolling 12 month or a year -over -year basis is very hard to model months, you know.
Understood, understood. Got it. Yeah.
I think both the indirect costs on new initiatives as well as the port questions, I would defer to Sarbvir, but on the port I would essentially say we are part of the solution, we're not part of the problem. I'll kind of leave you there.
The most recent number in portability, for our own base, we do not portray. We do not encourage customers to renew with another insurer. That's why if you see the same insurer, renewal rates in Health are extremely high. We do not do any kind of porting at that level. On the fresh business, I can give you exact numbers. 82% of the business that we did was from new customers, new to insurance customers.
They may have had a corporate policy.
They did not have a retail Health insurance policy. I think that should give you a sense. This number actually, if anything, has grown. We have less voting now externally than we had last year.
Madhukar, we are the, you know, I don't want to talk like Trump, we are the beautiful solution. We're not the problem is all I would say. Anyway.
Thanks for that.
On the fixed costs, on.
The indirect side, indirect costs on the.
New initiatives are
even monitored, like it'd be stupid not to monitor, but it's not meaningful in any way.
I would say, Madhukar, we are very acutely conscious that especially in the few POSP business, it is a business where costs have to be controlled. It is not a business where I think Yashish explained very well upfront that it's a fixed business. You can only do something which is you have to cut the cloth to what you have. I think over a period of time all other costs will be controlled and will come down in any given quarter. It may have been up or down depending on some investment in people, some investment that we may be doing towards something, but it's nothing more than that.
All right.
Just some data keeping questions. Can you give us the renewal premium breakup of POSP, UAE, and corporate?
Yeah, sure. POSP would be about INR 180 crore, UAE would be INR 111 crore, and corporate is a huge INR 292 crore. That's the beautiful part about the corporate business, and I think that's where I'm taking a lot of heart over the years. Our renewal rates are very strong. INR 292 crore of renewal. Now, just to kind of put this in perspective, if you look at our total business last year, same quarter from corporate was INR 272 crore, and we've done INR 292 crore of renewals. If anything, our premium from the INR 272 has grown, which is a signal of how the corporate business kind of is edging, and it's largely built on renewals.
Right, great.
Thanks for this and all the best. Thank you.
Thank you, Madhukar. We'll take the last question Prayesh Motilal. Prayesh Please unmute.
Yeah, yeah.
Hi.
Firstly, on this Healthcare part where you mentioned that things are in progress, but more importantly, from an insurance point of view, all the partners of yours would be working along with you on this or how would this kind of pan out? Or do you need a special duration with the insurance company for product, or all your existing customers would get that option? How will this thing move?
Prayesh, what is our responsibility as an industry? Forget Policybazaar, forget insurers. We have a certain base of customers, right? Policybazaar has a base of customers. There's a base of customers in the industry. Our job is to make sure these customers have a—they have paid with their trust and they've laid their trust in the insurance industry that at the point of claim, I should have a great experience. I should not—not a great experience, sorry, wrong word.
I shouldn't have a poor experience at the point of claim. For that, two things need to happen. Number one, the incidence rate needs to go down. The incidence rate is a factor of two things. One is people maybe not taking care of their Health, and I would give that, or not doing the right things to kind of.
Stay out of hospital.
The second is there is in.
A fee for service model, there is an incentive towards overutilization. I think the whole industry is coming together in working at this, some through narrow networks, some through working with their. If you look at countries like South Africa, this is the primary business they do. That is why people like MMA Discovery, etc., even Bupa does a lot of this globally. What they would do is, with their cohort of customers, they would work towards improving the lifestyle of these people so they stay out of hospital. In case they do need to go to hospital, they break them down into care pathways and they say, listen, you need to probably, if you have malaria, you don't really need to be in a hospital. The chances are you would probably catch a bug in the hospital which would be more serious for you.
Maybe at-home care is much better, and you need to invest in that. For that, there is infrastructure that needs to be built. Maybe there are daycare centers, so if you need an operation, a bulk of those should happen at daycare centers so that people can come and go back today. A 24-hour insurance thing is there that, look, if you're not hospitalized 24 hours, pre-hospitalization, post-hospitalization, the coverage rates could be challenging. The industry has to go through a transformation. To your specific questions, of course every partner in the industry is doing this. There is no doubt the entire industry is moving towards a narrower network, towards a more managed care approach. We cannot have as an industry a conflict of interest with our suppliers. Our suppliers currently have a conflict of interest. They make more money when our customers, when we lose money.
Essentially, as an industry, whenever we lose money, our partners make more money. That imbalance can somewhere only be corrected if you have some active role in that, and you'll have an active role if you're adding value to your customers. Yes, that's the journey we are on, and every partner is with us in this. There is no doubt about it. It's not just us, it's the whole industry.
The other question was on the mutual fund piece of the business. You mentioned that it's going to be a commission-led model, not the direct one. First of all, is this a second attempt at mutual funds, if I.
Recollect well.
Earlier also had some mutual fund business. Is this new avatar or what is it? You have so much competition on the direct side with these discount brokers giving all the tools for investing as well as advising. What is the right to win that you would have to kind of grow this business?
Yeah, right.
To win comes from execution. Right to win does not. Nobody is born with the right to win. Neither are we born with the right to win. Yes, we have some ins into the consumer and yes, we had a previous attempt at this about five, six years ago, by the way, that did not do badly, that did quite well. There was internal conflict between management because of which that group left and that group set up a separate business. In fact, truth be told, I'm a small investor in that business. Very few things I invest in, but I'm a very small investor in that business. I don't believe they're doing a bad job. They're doing a great job actually.
Now Santosh believes in this and I also believe in this that look through the, you know, PB Money app that we have, we can get consumers and our attempt is to give up an array of offers which goes from corporate bonds to bonds to mutual funds to some of the insurance products and yes, mutual funds also. That said, it is very, very early days for us to comment on whether we will be successful. What is our right to win? I guess those are fairly backward. Unless Santosh You have a different answer on.
No, absolutely. I think the fact that mutual fund is a large part of household savings for the country today gives, I would say, a lot of confidence that we should be in this area. PB money, I think now we are far more mature as a business to be able to talk about savings as a holistic solution. I think mutual fund sits very well as part of that solution. Over time, I think we'll have an answer of right to win. I don't think we have that answer very clear up front today, but I think there's a play for another partner and if we execute well there will definitely be a business to build.
See, as I look at and yesterday Alok and me were also discussing this. As I look out into the medium to long term, I actually see Paisabazaar now in a position where it will become a very, very strong player. A lot of confidence I at a fundamental level and again this is something which is businesses don't succeed or fail because they are great businesses. They succeed or fail because the people are very aligned to building them for the long term and those people are of great quality. I feel more confident than ever that we have that alignment and we have that team now which is directionally moving in absolutely the right direction. Rest I could be proven wrong here, like you know so far I have been proven wrong many times, but you know, I don't think often enough is all I would say.
Sarbvir is looking around when I think that's our bet here and let's see, let's see how we fare on it. It's very early days right now and we're right now as far as concerned. We couldn't be in a worse position from a financials perspective, but we couldn't be in a better position from a team perspective. I think Rasleen is saying timeout,
this last one small question. Rasleen, allow me for that on the loan part, right. For a core online business, where do you see it bottoming out and when do you expect it to kind of start picking up momentum again?
I think quarter three is when we see things really turning. I think the first two quarters we are taking this time to build our back-end operations, build product maturity, do a lot of integrations where we have a lot of digital solutions and not do lending the traditional way. I think we're building a beautiful solution where for every consumer who comes to our platform, what is the best chance of approval a customer has to get a loan and at the best possible rate. We're building that solution. I think quarter three, all of this should come together and we should see Healthy growth resuming from quarter three.
Great, thank you so much and all the rest.
Thank you, Prayesh. Thank you, everyone, for joining. For any residual questions, please reach out to us on investor.relations@pbfintech.in. Have a good day.
Thank you, guys. Thank you very much.
Thank you, everyone.