A very good evening everybody. Very warm welcome to PB Fintech Limited earnings call quarter two financial year 2025-2026. Today we have with us Mr. Yashish Dahiya, Chairman and Group CEO, PB Fintech; Mr. Alok Bansal, Executive Vice Chairman, PB Fintech; Mr. Sarbvir Singh, Joint Group CEO, PB Fintech; Ms. Santosh Agarwal, CEO, Paisabazaar; Mr. Mandeep Mehta, Group CFO, PB Fintech; and I'm Rasleen. I request Yashish for the introductory note.
Thank you, Rasleen. Before I start, I just wanted to share a very small incident. I think on 1st of September this year or 2nd of September this year, it was the last month of our quarter, it was announced that there would be a GST change on the 22nd. Any sane customer should not have bought any health policy or a term policy between 1st of September to 22nd of September, and I was obviously worried about what would happen. I must totally congratulate our team, which had found solutions before 9:00 A.M. that day, and our sales on that day were not lower, and as you will notice, for that month were not lower. I think that is what becomes the PB way, where execution is the key and execution happens in hours, not in any other sense.
I really wanted to thank all 23,000 of our employees once again for how they kept things up, and with that, I'll proceed to give the performance update for our quarter. Our total premium for the quarter is now INR 7,605 crore, up 40% year-on-year and 15% quarter-on-quarter, led by the online protection business, which is at 44% year-on-year, health being at 60%. Once again, please do take this with that backdrop of 1st to 22nd of September. Despite that, this is here. Consolidated revenue grew 38% year-on-year to INR 1,614 crore for the quarter. Core insurance revenue was up 36% year-on-year. Core credit revenue was down 22% year-on-year; however, it has bottomed out, and our quarter-on-quarter core credit revenue was up 4%.
I just wanted to add our quarter-on-quarter core dispersals growth was 9%. The bottom out has happened. Our renewal trail revenue on a 12-month rolling basis is INR 770 crore. The Policybazaar side of it, the insurance core revenue, has grown at 47%, and overall it's a 39% growth. The quarterly insurance renewals revenue is now at an ARR of INR 758 crore, which is up from INR 516 crore in Q2 last year. That is a growth of INR 242 crore. That's just, you know, how the annual growth is kind of going on right now. This is a key driver of our long-term profit growth. Steady growth continues in the core insurance premiums. Net of savings at 39% in on year, savings continues to be stressed. I just wanted to say this is against a high base of Q2 last year.
Q2 was our highest base last year. In fact, Q3 was almost 10% below Q2. Excluding the savings category, we have been growing between 35%- 45% very consistently for the last 10 quarters now. We continue to improve our customer onboarding and claim support services, and insurance CSAT is consistently now above 90%. Our credit revenue for the quarter is INR 106 crores and disbursals is INR 2,280 crores. For the core online business, we further strengthened our leadership in new initiatives with a revenue growth of 61% year-on-year. Adjusted EBITDA margins have moved from minus 12% to - 4% with a 5% contribution. PB Partners, our agent aggregator platform, is clearly consolidating its leadership and accelerating its growth momentum. It now has over 380,000 advisors. It's not just in 19,000 pin codes, but it's really driving growth from tier 4 and tier 5 towns.
It's clearly got the most diversified business lines out of all the players in the market today and has moved the business increasingly towards smaller and higher quality advisors at a rapid pace. I think all of these things are really positioning it in a very, very clear leadership position. I would say almost as big as the next two combined or something of that sort. Our UAE insurance premium grew 64% year-on-year and is clearly aligned towards health and life. Very similar to our India business. It's also using the cross border situation quite well where basically when people retire, they retire into India. We have a unique value proposition on those kind of products and the business is now consistently profitable for three quarters. Our consolidated PAT for PB Fintech grew 2.65 times or 165%. INR 235 crores from 4% - 8%.
I think it's a very important stat which I feel quite strongly about. This is 1.77% of our insurance premium. I think that's effectively that's how hard this category is. After 17 years, 18 years, we are in our 18th year and we are able to get to about 1.77% of insurance premium as a profit pool. It will of course grow. This should kind of keep growing into the future, but that's where we are today. To summarize, our performance since our public listing is always good to look at things now that four years are over. In these four years, from Q2 2022 to Q2 2026, our revenue grew from INR 280 crores to INR 1,614 crores, about 6x, and that's a CAGR of 55%. Our PAT margin has gone from - 73% to 8% positive overall for the entire business. Happy to take questions now.
Thank you, Yashish. We'll take the first question from Sachin. Sachin, please unmute yourself.
Thank you, Rasleen. Congrats Yashish and team for a great set of numbers. I have three questions. First question, a bit on clarification on how or if there is any impact on the business post the GST cuts. What we saw from September 22nd and this question is both on the consumer demand as well as on your commissions because we are hearing private insurance companies have reduced distributor commissions.
What happened? Has it got muted?
No, no. He's asked the first question.
Oh, it's the first question. Okay, so I think let's get to both these answers. I think demand has been very strong and I would let Sarbvir answer that, but it's been extremely surprising and positive. On the commission side, again, it's a complicated situation and I wouldn't go with any of the media narratives or whatever you're hearing out there because they tend to kind of paint things in black and white. We are a very large source of business, specifically health and term and fresh business. Our business quality is fairly superior compared to many other channels. There are multiple stakeholders here, you know, insurers, U.S. regulators, governments, consumers, our employees. We are having very constructive conversations. It's not do this, do that. It's a very constructive conversation and I feel we'll end up in a good place. Let's see.
Sarbvir, you want to speak about both the demand and the GST impact, please?
Yeah, sure, sure. I think on the impact, 5 September and 22 September were the biggest demand days I can say in the history of Policybazaar on both health and term as well as for actually other lines. Also, on 5th, of course, the conversion was not as good. On 22nd, even the conversion was very, very good. What we are seeing is that because of this, you know, a lot of dialogue about health insurance and term insurance and life insurance in general, there is a lot of demand and interest in the category. It is translating into higher conversion into bookings as well. I think from a demand perspective it's very good. October, which would have, you know, normally with Diwali etc., can be subdued from an insurance perspective, I think definitely saw a good lift because of this change.
On the second question on the revenue, which I think Yashish has largely addressed, the only thing I just want to explain to everyone is that I know it's a matter of great speculation and intrigue, but actually it's not so complicated. There are three, four factors, right? What is the increase in business that we are seeing? What is the quality of business in terms of fresh, real fresh versus, you know, people who are already existing insurance customers? The third thing is the, you know, sort of P&L impact of that for everybody, right? If you have high quality fresh customers, the value of those customers to insurance companies is very high.
I think we are in a very, very constructive dialogue and I think the fact that we have a relationship with insurance companies and we are not just, I would say, a distributor in that sense is really coming to the fore right now. I think we are having these discussions. We are absolutely committed to working with everybody or with all our partners. If you hear the calls also, I think all the insurance companies have said the same thing and we think this will leave the industry in a better position than where we started. I think that's the key from our perspective.
Okay, so net net maybe not too much of an impact on distributor commissions for you guys. Maybe something here and there, but generally it's a win-win for both you and the insurance companies. Is that what we should expect going ahead?
I'll focus on the second part only. I would say that yes, we want to ensure that it's a win-win for both. Actually, you know, there are three parts to this thing. It's a triangle, always: consumer, insurance company, and Policybazaar. All three, you know, have to gain because otherwise, you know, it's a zero-sum game, right? If you take some from one person, give it to the other, I think all three will gain, and that's what we are really focused on.
Got it. My second question is on the sharp EBITDA margin and adjusted EBITDA margin improvement we saw in this quarter. This was clearly led by momentum at the core online business. The question out here is should we see this momentum being sustainable because I remember Yashish mentioning in the last call that you guys are focusing more on revenue growth and margins is derivative and eventually follow. We are also seeing margin growth being strong. Is this something which is sustainable going ahead?
I would not read anything into any margin growth, etc. Those things, I think they are just same. Our focus is very clear. Our focus is on growth. Yes, one quarter you may see higher margin, one quarter. Look at it. Our revenue is. Just a second. I'm on the next one. Our total revenue for the quarter is about INR 1,640 crores.
Even if that changes by 2% here or there, that is INR 32 crores positive or negative. What is 2%? It is two days of. It's one and a half days of revenue or something of that sort. Sometimes you may get some premium ahead, some payment later. Do not read into margin movements on a quarterly basis. That's the message I would give. It may be some spillover from previous quarters, it may be some spillover from next quarter, I don't know. Don't read too much into quarterly margin shifts. There has been nothing dramatic to change our contribution margin in the last quarter. It is just maybe some money came from some quarter here and there because you're always seeing this 2%- 3% movement from one quarter to the other. There are costs below contribution line which don't move as fast, obviously grow fast.
You definitely get some benefit between contribution to EBITDA. As he said, practically we are focusing on growth and that drives everything else.
Got it.
One month you just have a higher issuance bucket. Some months, some delay, some Sunday, those kind of things can make some changes. Don't read too much into in one quarter how much did the margin happen. I'm just trying to explain like INR 30 crores can shift with just one and a half days.
Yeah, thanks on that. Last question is would be great to have an update on Pension Bazaar and PB Money in the last three months. How the business has scaled up and should we see incremental investments into both these new initiatives?
Yeah. Both PB Money and Pension Bazaar, there haven't been much incremental investments. I think all of it put together may not. The total investment may be less than $0.5 million. I wouldn't say that anything has happened yet, but maybe I'll just ask Sarbvir if you want to talk about Pension Bazaar or, you know, Santosh, we want to talk about PB Money.
No, I think Sachin, it's a bit early to really say too much about Pension Bazaar. I think we are, you know, we've set up a small team, we are looking at various things. The good news I would say is that NPS is, you know, a lot of changes have come in the NPS scheme and they're making it more, I would say, consumer friendly. It's still a tough business. Fifteen years you have to lock in your money, etc. I think it's a very serious problem that we are trying to solve. Right now we are focused on figuring out our way forward and I think we'll have more to say as we go.
I think on both of these we are actually at a drawing board stage here. On both PB Money and Pension Bazaar we are at drawing board stage and that's our usual style in such things.
Right.
Till we are sure about exactly how we're going to do it, we will stay at the drawing board stage, and at some point we'll become confident and move forward. PB Money is exactly the same thing. On the Paisabazaar side, we want to have a more holistic offering; besides just credit, we also want to have certain sales products, etc. We are not moving aggressively on that yet. Right now we're still testing. I don't know. Santosh, you want to say something?
Absolutely. I think we've been able to now p ut all a person's investments on one view, insights. We're giving consumers now. Monetizing that for savings products, of course, is the next step. Nothing major has happened yet. We're doing some of the products with launch bonds and deposits, but very early stage.
See, here's some guidance if you want to hear it. On both Pension Bazaar and PB Money, don't expect anything from a results perspective at least for a year. I think we are in a drawing board, and any scale that happens will be irrelevant compared to the scale of our other businesses. At the same time, here is one more thing. We are deeply committed to both. Sometimes you can be very deeply committed to something but not act on it immediately because you don't know exactly how you will act. Both Pension Bazaar and PB Money are at that stage. Do you believe pensions is a very big problem in India and there will be some solution? We don't know exactly what yet.
Similar with PB Money, I think our customers need a more holistic solution, we will figure out exactly how to do it.
Thank you and all the best.
Thank you, Sachin. We'll take the next question from Sachin Dixit, JM Financial. Sachin, please.
Also, on both of them, don't expect any significant loss or anything either. It's not like we are investing a lot of money in any one of them in the early stages.
Thank you.
We'll take the next question from Sachin Dixit, JM Financial. Sachin, please unmute yourself.
Congratulations on a great set of results again. I had a couple of questions. My first question was on this piece with regards to cross sell, right? With GST exemption being there on your renewal book as well, and you already are sitting on a decently large term and health book, do you think there is opportunity and if you have seen any evidence of that in October, please let us know. Do you think there's substantial opportunity to cross sell or upsell to the same customers who are renewing premium, casting that their overall payments are declining thanks to GST?
I think Sajan, if I understand your question, basically what is going to happen is that in health renewal especially people will see a lower price or a much more attractive price as compared to what they would have seen with GST. Our objective, and it's again early days yet, is to significantly try to build up our renewal rate and we measure renewal rate on the basis of number of policies because number of customers is what really matters. Our first priority is to increase renewal rates both first year as well as second year onwards. The second priority is what you are, I think, referring to, which is to try to cross-sell some more products to increase the value of the customer, etc. I would say that it's the second priority.
Our first priority actually is to increase the renewal rate because if you think about it, the more customers we can carry into the future actually has a very high outcome and very high value versus just trying to increase first year premium and have fewer customers going forward. That's what we are trying to do and we believe that the nature of products, we have spoken about it, that the nature of health insurance products with a higher cumulative bonus is also favorable. Now with this change I think we should be able to drive even higher persistency. I mean that's really what our focus is understood.
No, where I was coming from largely was if you look at, for example, term, right, a lot of people might be investing in term thanks to ATC benefit as well, and they already have a defined amount in their mind on which they need benefit. In case that number, thanks to the 18 cut, becomes lower, do you think you will be able to sell more rather than the customer actually paying just the lesser amount?
Yes, yes, absolutely. In term insurance what we are trying to do is that we are telling people that, you know, INR 1 crore is our most popular price point. We are saying that you should buy INR 1.5 crores because as we've calculated for most people it's like INR 100 a month extra and you can get INR 1.5 crores instead of INR 1 crore. We are actually trying to increase the sum assured in term and say that look, this is a great opportunity for you and you should buy more sum assured. Again, these are slow burns. It's not very easy to drive these things very quickly. This is a very calculated and I would say very well-oiled effort that we are making to try and drive this going forward. Let's see how it goes.
Got it. Sure. My second question is Yashish obviously mentioned since that GST announcement came in, you guys figured out or at least a team figured out how to ensure that growth remains on track for September month as well as coming, going ahead. Can you talk about what were these initiatives? What did you do? How did you ensure that the growth did not fall apart after that?
You know the master chef never sells their secret sauce here.
Okay.
I'll just leave it there. Honestly, there is no secret sauce here. Actually, it's just hardworking people there and they just get at it. They figure out solutions, they do it and it's too much to be discussing on a call exactly how.
Sure. Just one housekeeping question if I may. On the premium slides that you have shared, you have also shared the premium calculated using GST exemption at the bottom. If at some point of time that becomes the norm, should we expect a step decline in the premium that you will show up on your report?
No. From next quarter onwards we will share the premium without GST and it will be apples to apples. The past will also be shown without GST. Whatever will be removed from the past as well. It is just for eight days. We didn't want to do that entire exercise because it would just confuse people more than the benefit of eight days of reduced GST.
Understood. Thank you. Thank you so much and all the best for the future.
Thank you, Sachin. We'll take the next question from Nitesh Jain, Investor N. Please unmute yourself.
Thanks. Hi. First question is on health insurance. Have you launched narrow network policies already? If yes, what is the share of narrow network policies in the health insurance bonus?
We have launched, yes. With many of our partners, we have preferred network policies where essentially if you take a rider which limits the network, you get a discount upfront. I think it's probably not necessary to talk about what percentage it is. It's a small percentage right now in the order of 15%- 20% and it will grow with time. I think this is an area which we are very deeply interested in for many reasons. I think this is an area where we will work to make it more and more valuable so that customers feel the value also of going to a narrow network. It should not just be a cost issue, it should also be a better experience when you go to a narrow network. We are really focused on solving with our insurance partners the second part of the problem as well.
We are focused on this one.
Sure. Secondly, if you can share the configuration margin and EBITDA margin for core credit business, for online credit business,
for the core credit business.
Maybe Rasleen can just share that offline, if that's okay.
Sure.
Too many parameters. There are credit cards and there are secured lending, unsecured lending. Giving a single symbol becomes very odd for such a large category. They're not very different from what people get in the market. I'm sure Rasleen can share that.
That's it from my side. Thank you.
Thank you, Nadesh. We'll take the next question from Jayant, Access Capital. Please unmute yourself.
Thanks, Rasleen, and congratulations to the team for a great set of results. The first question is slightly longer term for Yashish. You know, you. We see the slide where you mentioned PAT as a percentage of premium at 1.77%. While you clearly said you don't want to look at quarterly margin and profitability, if I were to slightly take a zoom out and look three to five years out, where do you see this number? Let's say by FY30 or, or
I think about, I think about 3%.
Okay. And this will take into factor the INR 1 trillion premium number that you're aspiring for.
Yeah, the INR 1 trillion. Obviously there'll be a bit of a change because of GST, but how much whether I delay it by one quarter or two quarters. See, I love this thing, guidance and you know, all these words.
I'm just talking from heart. Right. So in November 21st or whatever, whenever it was 2020. Yeah, 2021 or something, I just said yes, at some point we'll make a certain amount of profit. Now I didn't know that was going to be a guidance, but okay, it's a guidance fine out there. Right. And that's the same message that we again put out that okay, in 2030 we would like these are our aspirations, these are, these are what we can see. I think to an extent those numbers are put out there because at that time they are not the norm in terms of thought process. When they appear people say yeah, this would have happened anyway. The INR 1 crore premium was not, not anyway. Somebody's laughing. It doesn't happen anyway.
Takes a lot of effort, but it is, you know, somewhere it kind of comes out that way. The INR 1 lakh crore was in a similar vein when I made that, I didn't know that GST would not be part of that INR 1 lakh crore. So yeah, there may be, you know, it may happen, you know, one quarter later or two quarters later because there may be some impact of GST. Maybe there's a 6% impact on our cumulative book. We'll see how that appears. Yes, the 3%. Yeah, I think the 3% of that.
Great, great, thanks for this. Second question is linked to growth again. Now that I think savings on the base number was the largest for Q2 and moving into Q3, Q4 that base effect is going to wean off.
Shall we assume now we will move back to our 30% plus growth trajectory for the foreseeable future? Am I correct that by fourth quarter savings was already negative for you last year? Yes, savings was. All I'm trying to say is without savings, we've given the number very clearly. Without savings, we've been in that zone for forever. Like 10 quarters is a long time, and we don't anticipate that changing. Yes, we do believe that as we move into the next few quarters, the saving growth will naturally come back. If you think about it, Q4 last year was already 20% below Q2. If we just do what we are doing, you will see a kind of decent growth anyway. We are seeing growth, right. Actually, when I'm looking at the numbers, I'm seeing quarter-on-quarter growth in the savings business clearly and in the Paisabazaar business.
There's a lot of effort going in making that quarter-on-quarter growth come out. If I could just squeeze in one last, I remember you passionately talking about child education and pension problem that you want to solve for. Is there any update? Is that part of savings climbing in the way you had expected it to?
Yeah. I think, you know, the pension category we started about three, four quarters ago continues to grow, both sequentially and on a year-on-year basis. The child business we have been doing for a while does grow, but I think we've also, I would say, broadened the appeal. The appeal was essentially that there's a waiver of premium feature that if the person dies, then the premiums are paid by the insurance company in place of that person so that whatever goal you were saving for, in that case children's education, would be fulfilled. We have extended that same benefit to all other things. Supposing you are saving for your house or you are saving for your retirement, if something happens to you, then your wife, your family would continue to get that amount of money. I think we broadened the appeal. We are continuing to drive that.
Of course, right now, given the overall business was soft in Q2, this part also didn't necessarily grow very dramatically. It continues to be, I would say, a key sales pitch and it's a very real story. It's something which really differentiates ULIPs from mutual funds and other instruments.
Great, thank you and congratulations once again.
Thank you. We'll take the next question from Neeraj Kushnival, UBS. Neeraj, please unmute yourself.
Yeah. Hi everyone. Congrats on good sir. First question of contribution. YouTube despite, you know.
Probably a little closer to the mic, we are not able to hear you.
Is it better now?
Go ahead, let's try. Yeah.
Yeah. So basically the contribution seems to have improved despite health still growing upwards of 60%. What drove the change from Q1 to Q2? Health is still growing very fast, and contribution has surprised here. Second question is on the new initiatives, looks to be very strong, and while you can give more color on the same. Are we now getting on the net? Take it. Are we making some bit of money there or similar contribution at 5%, and we might see the journey a little while to have, you know, turn into profitability. Any timelines that will be helpful. Third would be the breakdown of the premium initiative renewals and all those numbers you can share. That would be helpful.
Neeraj, can you please repeat your first and third question again?
The first question was on the contribution margin. Contribution looks very strong despite health growing very fast. Just wanted what changed from Q1 to Q2.
Understood. It's contribution margin despite health growing.
Yeah, I think I answered that. It may just be, you know, some extra issuance may have happened this quarter. Some extra payment may have happened this quarter. All I'm saying is always assume that, you know, two or three days of payments can move from one quarter to the other. Always, you know, as long as it's INR 30 to 40 crore moving from one quarter to the other, don't take it too seriously because on a, you know, INR 1,600 crore thing. That was really the explanation. Yes, you are absolutely right. For those who may not be aware, Fresh Health does move at about -20%. Every time we do Fresh Health, our margins get pushed down. In fact, we make a loss clearly at the contribution level itself, but then the renewals are growing just as fast. Renewals is also growing at about 50% or so. Yeah.
Only thing I would add, I think it's best to look at it on a rolling four quarter basis.
That's the right thing.
Yeah. The only little bit of element in Q2 was that if you see Q1 through Q2, renewal growth was stronger in Q2 than in Q1. I think it's all these are small, small pieces which move up and down every quarter.
I think what Rasleen Kaur said just now was the most important thing. That's why we put out the 12-month rolling piece. Always look at that one. That is the most, you know, kind of, yes, backward looking because it's 12 months is over. It's kind of, you know, a bit dated, but that's almost the best way of looking at our business. It takes out seasonality and takes out these quarter-on-quarter movements also.
Got it. Some of the new initiatives, you can give more color in terms of the kind of moves you're seeing.
Yeah, I think one of the things that we are seeing in the POSP side, if you see, the growth actually accelerated in this quarter. We grew at 55%, 56% in this quarter. I think what is happening is that one is we are going deeper into the countryside. We are going to smaller and smaller towns. We have expanded, we are investing behind increasing our team, etc. Obviously, they are recruiting more agents, more granular business is coming. I think the second thing that we are seeing is that a little bit of the industry structure is also favoring us. We are actually right now the most focused organization on the POSP side. We've always explained that we bring a huge amount of, I would say, focus and capability to the table.
Some of our peers in that business are going through their own some kind of corporate actions and some are focused on other matters. What is really happening is that our team is able to drive very effectively. I think this is very, very heartening because four years into the project, we are now growing at 55% on a very high base. I think that's really heartening. If I understood your question also, this bodes very well for improving the economics of the business as well. Profitability, etc. is a different thing. I think the economics of the business are improving with scale. The delta between PB Partners and other peers is increasing very rapidly now every quarter.
In terms of net take rate, when can we turn the table and get started making profits out of it?
Is the question that when does the POSP business become profitable? Is that the question? I'm trying to decipher the question.
Yeah. The timeline,
I think next year our hope is that the POSP business, in the normal course of things, may not have much of a loss, may not have any meaningful loss. You know what, we don't want to commit to that because we will play this strategically. We are very good at execution and we are very focused on winning and adding value to the customers and our partners. We will do whatever feels right at that point, which could be anything. In the normal course of things, I think our losses should be meaningless next year .
Last question is on the bookkeeping. Can you break down the partners and new business.
Yeah. For POSP, it was about INR 1,700 crore, about 415. For UAE and corporate, it was 230. Cross.
New business interviews.
They're very similar for core policy.
Got it. Thank you. All the best.
Thank you. Thanks, Neeraj. We'll take the next question from Depanjan Ghosh, City Dependent. Please unmute yourself.
Hi. Hope I'm audible.
Absolutely.
Yeah. Just one or two questions from my side first. You know, Yashish, you obviously, you know, to one of the previous participants' question, you mentioned that maybe somewhere around 2030, maybe plus minus a few quarters, you aim to take the profitability number to let's say 3% of premiums. On the flip side, you also mentioned that you want to sustain growth on the POSP and the new initiatives and not lose out on the opportunity. Now, you know, we would presume that even four, five years out, these businesses would probably not operate at a margin where your core business operates. Let's say when you kind of visualize this 3% of premiums, how are you really extrapolating, let's say, the growth in the core versus the new initiatives?
I mean, does that have an implication on this 3% number in case the growth rates across these two segments were to flip or change?
My expectation is, you know, POSP is reaching a point as a channel where I think future growth rates are going to be similar to, or, you know, I don't think the share shift will be too much from here. There is also, you know, see, we invest when we do health business, we lose money. That is why, you know, there is a reward in terms of renewals, premiums. There could be two ways of paying for anything, right? Somebody could say, okay, you will be paid up front like happens in life insurance. Or somebody could say you will be paid annually like happens in health insurance or motor insurance, the general insurance business. There we have that renewal advantage.
You know, the renewals part is always a little more predictable, the Panjan than the fresh business. I was just talking to Sarbvir before this meeting and I was saying in fresh business, even 0% growth is an achievement because it is actually hunting every year, right? People have to come in, you have to convince them to buy. That is why we add a lot of value along with our partners to the industry in bringing fresh customers to the market, both in health and term. You know, motor at least they have to buy so they will buy from somewhere. Health and term people don't have to buy, right? I think the reward we receive for putting in that effort and actually making a loss in the first year is the renewals and that becomes a predictable source.
Yes, I do think that is what explains it a little more than what the POSP explains it. I think POSP will be a similar share as we go forward, maybe a little more. 1%, 2% will not. When I say this number, it is a very robust number. It doesn't change very easily. These numbers don't change very easily. Just like our 2027 guidance was a fairly robust number. It can't change too much. You can't change it by more than 10%, 20% here or there. The hope is, I mean we are not saying 3% or 2.5%, 3.5%.
What do you want to achieve and work towards is INR 1 trillion, INR 1 lakh crore of premium.
This is not our objective. Our objective is the INR 1 trillion premium. This is a byproduct. If you do that much, I think maybe the industry wants to pay you a little bit. Maybe you make a couple of percentage points of profit also. Otherwise, why would we be doing all this? Might as well go home.
No, absolutely. Sorry, just two small questions on this one. In the POSP business, is the mix still predominantly inclined towards motor? Because you mentioned that you have diversified and probably on the POSP side you're probably one of the most diversified companies as on date. One is how has the diversification progress been and second, on that line, is the contours of the contract or profitability of the products on POSP similar across motor and non-motor? Last question is basically on the pension or the savings business, excluding let's say the linked, a pure linked business. What is the strategy to really scale up the hybrid model?
I would presume that would be one of the levers to really scale up the pension category as a segment and its related other businesses.
Yeah. I'll just take them one by one. I think in terms of POSP Motor, it continues to be obviously a large majority of the business. We are the most diversified in terms of having, you know, other lines of business, life, health, and, you know, other stuff. The reason, you know, if I were to look at it right now, I would say actually the motor business is responsible for driving the growth that we are seeing. I would say above average growth that we are seeing in terms of the shape of the PNL. Motor tends to have a little lower retention but also lower costs. Life and health tend to have higher retention but you also need to invest in them. Net net, I don't think there is that much difference at the EBITDA level.
Our thought process is, see, our thought process actually in that business is not focused on product, it's focused on the agent. Because our agent is our partner. We have to improve the earnings of the agent. If the agent earns more money by working with PB Partners, he or she will stay with us longer and they will see greater value with us. That is, I think, the crux of the discussion and that's what we are trying to achieve. That's to give them an earnings opportunity which is superior to what they may be able to do anywhere else. If you ask me honestly, that's w hat is winning so far.
And is having the agents' trust. One of the things you will hear as you go around the market, if anybody does the due diligence, is that Policybazaar always pays on time, those kind of things. I think that Policybazaar does not snatch people's customers, does not try to steal the renewals, does not try to cut them out of the renewals, commission, etc. Those kind of things you will hear in the market. I think that is one of the reasons why people are starting to gravitate towards us because eventually it's a game of trust.
Absolutely.
Any other second thing in terms of the savings business? Yes, absolutely. Hybrid has been a driver of our growth. We had done the top, I would say, 10, 12 cities earlier. Now we are pushing into the next, I would say, 15 to 20 cities where we are trying similar models. We have to manage that at a lower cost because we can't put that many advisors in each of those cities, but we are doing that. I think we are working on 20 cities right now, and that project is also slowly gaining traction. I think yes, savings will require a hybrid approach. Customers like to meet people face to face. They want to understand the products, taking time. I think that's something that we will continue to keep driving as we go forward.
Got it. Yashish, Sarbvir and Alok, and all the best. Thank you.
Thank you, Dipanjan. We'll take the next question from Kushagra Goel, CLSA. Kushagra, please unmute yourself.
Hi, thank you for taking my question. Congratulations on a wonderful set of numbers. I just have one question now. There was a sharp increase in the other expense line item this quarter. I just wanted to understand what exactly sits here and how to think about this going forward.
Just give a second. Yeah, just a second. Other expense. What sharp is it? Could you just kind of try to highlight the number or something because we can't see this high. A sharp increase. Sorry, the sharp increase story. No. It's up 29% sequentially QoQ and about 67% y o y. Where do you see there is this 29 which is the other expenses. Other expenses in the. No, where is it? 592. INR 592 crore.
I'm sorry, maybe we get back to the person in the meanwhile.
Yeah, yeah. I think this is maybe some point of sales presence commissions. That is what is perhaps showing up here. Maybe as the business has expanded, that is showing under other expenses.
Okay, okay. I don't know right classification or not, but maybe not.
Yeah, but it's really that.
Okay, so it's linked to the POSP. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. That's all. Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take the next question from Manas Agarwal. Manas, please unmute yourself.
Hi, thanks for the opportunity. Two questions and two clarifications. First question is let's say hypothetically if something was to happen on take rate compression and then there is a volume offset which is a favorable move, what kind of cost levers do you have in the next coming quarters to protect your margins for the year? Let's say. That's question one. Question two is as part of these negotiations around take rate, since a lot of your profitability comes from the renewal book, is there distortion between how take rates are being negotiated on new versus renewal and does it change your renewal-led profit buildup in any shape or form? Those are two questions. From a clarification perspective, if we are saying that GWP includes GST, that basically means your take rates are actually higher than what we've optically seen them and wanted to understand.
Narrow network policies, is this your PB health policies or is that the same concept but yet to be launched? That is it.
Very quick answers first of all, and I'm sure Sarbvir will also pitch in on this. In reality, our conversations with most insurers are not as shallow as this is your commission, take it or leave it or anything of that sort. It is much more around operating ratios, the quality of the book, around how fast we are growing. If you notice across channels, what you would notice is our fresh growth. Growth I'm talking about is very, very high. Our percentage of the fresh is much higher than our percentage of renewal. We and our partners are very aware of our operating ratios, our combined operating ratio, which is actually far more favorable than many other channels.
It's only fair that if somebody is growing for you faster, doing higher fresh business, is also doing good quality business, which implies our claim settlement rate is much higher, which is actually a very big positive for insurers because if your claim settlement rate is higher, your complaints are lower, the customer distress is much lower. By the way, when companies do well on the Policybazaar platform, there's also direct traffic creation, which builds direct business for insurers. It's a little more complicated conversation than, you know, we're not a standalone, we're not just a distributor. It's a distributor, a marketeer, a claims partner. We're a partner in every sense. Our conversations are there and we don't want to comment in the market about which way these are going to end, etc. It's like, you know, asking Trump what he's going to do tomorrow.
Right. He'll do tomorrow what makes sense tomorrow. I think we want to keep our conversations with our partners, which are very constructive, in a closed room at this point. Genuinely, we don't think anybody needs to worry about this too much is the broad answer we would give. I'd say, yeah, I don't know. The narrow network, yes, the entire thought process is the same. PB Health is just a word, but yes, the thought process is same. Sarbvir, do you want to.
No, actually I have nothing to add on the GST thing. I think the only thing, again, I just repeat, we have a relationship with insurance companies and in a relationship you work things out between the two partners and do not talk about it too much in public. I think that's what we are also doing. On the cost side, I would say that please understand that we are focused on cost efficiency. In any case, it's not like because today, commissions, you know, whatever, something has happened on GST, we should now look at our costs.
We started this whole approach years ago.
Yeah, we look at our costs on a daily, weekly, monthly basis. Actually, hidden in a lot of the overall stuff is that our marketing efficiency has improved quite dramatically over the years. Whether it is the proportion of direct traffic that we are able to bring to the platform, whether it is the fact that we have built our own in-house, you know, being able to leverage our own customer base more effectively. I think our, what we call our growth business, that now has become a big contributor to our fresh business. It used to be almost nothing. I think we have focused a lot on marketing efficiency, we focus a lot on call center efficiency, we focus a lot on improving the productivity of our advisors.
I think that again, irrespective of what is happening, we focus very heavily and I think we achieve good outcomes there also. I think that's where I would leave the discussion at. I think on the network products right now, as and when PB Healthcare Services Private Limited hospitals come online, we will obviously leverage them also. Right now we are leveraging the existing hospital network that are there and working on that. I think that's kind of where we are. I think you did ask that if where GST is removed from the premium, then yes, obviously optically our take rate will look higher than it used to look earlier.
Got it. Thank you for the detailed answers.
I just wanted to say one thing. Sometimes in the media it's portrayed like this is some kind of commodity that anybody can bring health customers or term customers to the market. Remember with 17, 18 years of effort, lot of hard work, lot of brand build, a lot of direct traffic. With all those things and everything we are doing of the premium, we are able to make 1.77% at our scale. This is not an easy thing that anybody can just that, that it's, it's like, I'll give an example, right? Suppose I wanted to get traffic from Google for health insurance. There's only a limited amount I can get. That's it. I may be willing to spend 10 times that money, but I will not get more traffic.
To some extent, it is a pretty rare commodity and we are very fair partners and our partners are very fair to us, right? We are working things through. I don't think it's as simple as.
Yeah, Got it. Thank you.
Thanks, Manas. We'll take the next question from Madhukur Lada. Please unmute yourself.
Hi, good evening. Congratulations on a great set of numbers. I have three questions actually. First on the adjusted EBITDA margins. Obviously we're seeing a pretty good improvement. If I look at the indirect costs, like the cost sitting between contribution and adjusted EBITDA, that also seemed to be well contained. I wanted to get some sense of how should we be looking at this number on a quarterly basis, annual basis, what are the components of here and what sort of growth, let's say even annually. If we were to look at this number, how should we think about this? That will help us run our adjusted EBITDA calculations more clearly. Second, last quarter, I think you had given a number of Paisabazaar margins of minus 20%. That is the EBITDA margin. Can you give a similar number for this quarter or the first half? That's my second question.
Finally, if you could just give me, I think you did mention these numbers, but if you could repeat what are the renewal premium numbers for POSP, corporate and UAE separately, that would be helpful. Thanks.
A lot of questions there, but good. I think when you look at operating cost, specifically fixed costs, brand, other people, other office costs, central cost allocations, we are doing a lot of innovation. We're doing a lot of new segments, a lot of new products, a lot of those things. A lot of experimentation is going on across the organization. At an early stage, like whenever you start a new BU or a new sub view, it takes a lot of effort. There's a certain amount of time and it takes a while before it scales up. We've been doing a lot of that simply because our focus has been on growth.
Our focus, I've repeated this many times over the last three, four years and I think by now you would have seen enough proof of it. Our focus is not to become, see, there are two stages an organization can be in. It can try to maximize profits or it can drive growth. Usually both of these don't go together. We are in that zone where we're trying to expand. Eventually we will have enough to take care of all these costs. That's our approach. In terms of growth rates, they should stay similar to what they have been over the past, maybe a little lower as we progress on the fixed cost side. Now coming to margins on the Paisabazaar side, we don't want to comment on this. There's been a slight improvement. I don't want to be exact about the number. I know we were exact last quarter.
There has been an improvement, but the improvement is limited. It's not like a marked improvement. I'll leave it there. Brand is mostly a constant for a few quarters. I think that should give you enough information. If there's more than that required, then you know, just C heck with Risky or something.
On the renewal piece. In the new initiatives, we have about INR 180 crore for PB Partners, about INR 110 crore for UAE, and about INR 300 crore for the corporate business.
Got it. Thanks. That's it from my side.
Thank you, Madhuba. We'll take the next question from Shreya, please. From Nomura. Please unmute yourself. Hello? Am I audible? Yes. Okay, great. Congratulations on a great set of numbers.
I have. T hree. Two questions. First is on the motor piece. Quite interesting that your POSP book actually grew very well in the quarter, and assuming similar trend in October because we know that the car sales and vehicle sales have been going very strong. Surprising that the POSP actually attracts a lot more fresh premiums on the motor side. Some color on whether POSP model is a better suited model for cracking the fresh motor business. That's my first question.
I think if by fresh motor you mean new cars, then frankly speaking neither POSP nor our B2C business actually have a very high amount of business coming from new cars. The growth that we saw in Q2 was not driven by new cars, but by actually overall growing our market share. I would say in the POSP business it continues to be a mix of, like I said, growth in distribution. I mean going to areas that we were not present in and increasing the share that we are getting from areas that we are already present in. I think it is largely that which has driven it till Q2. You are correct in saying that in October, typically in the Diwali month, there is a higher degree of new car business, etc. For us, actually, that is not a key driver of the business.
It's largely the stock of cars and trucks and autos and school buses that are part of the business.
Okay, okay, that makes sense. Thank you. Thank you for that answer. What is the overall motor segment growth? Just like your protection has grown at 44%, health at 60%. What would it be for motor for the entire Policybazaar business and PB Partners i ncluded?
The core business or the including PB Partners?
Including PB. Yeah, the total premiums including PB Partners also.
Maybe about 40% or so.
Okay, sure. My second question is you had mentioned that your 1 trillion premium can move, you know, move by 1 to 2 quarters and all of those things. We had a guidance, we have a guidance for next year also which is your net profits and profit guidance. Fair to assume that there also that INR 1,000 crore could move. I mean could get delayed or not get delayed. Any comment on that?
It was a change. I would have said it.
Okay, sure, that's useful. My last two questions are data key sweeping questions. I wanted the PB Connect revenue. That was INR 43 crore last quarter, so whatever is the number this quarter. Have we defined the ESOP payouts going ahead? Because what you had shared a couple of years back, is there a new ESOP payout that you shared with us?
The last question, but Santosh, do you want to just answer the.
Yeah. The PB Connect revenue for Q2 is INR 66 million, 53% up from last quarter.
Sorry, what was the last question, Shreya?
ESOP payouts. The ESOP payouts,
As I said, they are now getting into. What you are seeing in ESOP is we had an old scheme and a new scheme. The new scheme started last year and the old scheme is kind of going to be phasing out by 2028. What you're seeing is on one side the costs are coming down and the other scheme the costs are ramping up. Quite honestly, on an annual basis you should not see much change. It should see very similar from here onwards.
That is useful. Congratulations and thank you for all the best for the future.
Thank you, Shreya. We'll take the next question from Ashwin Mehta, Ambit. Ashwin, please unmute yourself.
Yeah. Hi. Congratulations on good set of numbers. Just two questions. One, if I look at your trail revenues in the credit side, there's been a fall and understandably so because of the slowness of that business. As you build the incremental book here, what are the initiatives that have been taken to kind of possibly build a higher trail here or any sense in terms of that? The second is in terms of any updates on the PB Healthcare Services Private Limited side, when do we start to see the first operations?
Do you want to answer on the trail side?
On the trail side we did s ee slowness and see, I think the c redit area is going through. Through a tough time and the NP rates were higher than what were anticipated. That led to some softening on the PNL side for the partners, and we kind of shared that burden. Hence, you see softening of trade revenue going forward. We've doubled down on risk, we've doubled down on alternate data collection for consumers. Our ability to basically build quality of business for our partners is increasing as we move forward, and most of that will translate into better revenues being.
I think as we realized in Policybazaar, being a bucket shop distributor is not sufficient. You have to be more involved, you have to have more inputs into the process, and that is how you will earn properly into the future. Our renewals revenue got affected because our partners in general suffered, so it could not have been one way. We shared in that. That was that on PB Healthcare Services Private Limited. I'll try to explain to everybody the way we are thinking about it. First of all, the narrow network is part of the strategy. You have a narrower network, so you have fewer places. The second thing that is part of it is care pathways, that if a customer is ill, they get appropriate care, whether it needs to be primary care, secondary care, or tertiary care.
In the network, there are hospitals and care facilities that can take care of each one of those, so the customers are directed on that. Lastly, there's a technology and hospitals layer. The update is four facilities have been part acquired or part whatever, so there's work going on on that. Please appreciate these hospitals will just become part of that network. Eventually, it's about running a narrow network, which will over time be more and more, let's say, more and more controlled or more and more integrated. It's a slow move, again, a bit like I said on pensions and PB Money. All these things will happen over time. Don't expect anything. The interesting part here is as those facilities become ready, I think the narrow network will come back before the facilities. The facilities just become the preferred part of the narrow network, if you would.
I think that's how you should see it. There's obviously a lot of work going on in tech, etc. For that, we'll have to have a totally different conversation.
Sure. Thanks, Yashish.
Thank you, Ashwin. We'll take the next question from Sanket Goda. Sanket, please unmute yourself.
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. My first question is on the non-contribution expenses, fixed costs. Basically, the growth in those costs naturally has come down, probably improving the margins. That number looks around 15% growth year-on-year, for the half and not for quarter two. I just wanted to understand a bit of color on this number, how you see this to play out eventually, whether it will be in this range or you see it to grow at a much lower pace. A large part of the cost will be sitting only in contribution margins.
Did you say 15 or 50%?
1 5, 15,
1 5. It should stay about this year. I think that's fair. You know what happens is, as I said, every time we start a new business, suppose in savings we started a pensions category, right?
The pensions category requires a new head, it requires a new focus from a technology perspective. It needs new product people, it does all of those things. That is really it and we keep trying out new things, right? In health we will have new, we will have old, old people, young. Our success is not just achieved just like that. We have all these narrow segments and thus fixed cost goes into creating those segments and making the success of those segments. Once those segments scale, the fixed costs are less necessary also. Quite honestly, we've not focused on reducing them. So 15% seems like a safe thing. I do not think it would be very different. It might be a little higher, a little lower. I think maybe between 15%- 20%. As long as we're giving the 30% fresh growth, I think 15-20% is okay.
If we did not do that, then of course this would come down. The management rule is quite straightforward. As long as 30% fresh growth, let's not focus on the fixed cost side. Let's keep going. If we ever miss that, then on a consistent basis, not one quarter or something, but on a consistent basis, then we look at our cost side and we act on that also. If I do a similar exercise for the new initiative, 33% growth in fixed cost, naturally it should converge to that 15% number, what core is reporting right now. If you look at the components of this indirect cost, there are three main components. One is the office and office overheads, which is quite closely linked to number of people we have to hire. So that behaves more like a direct cost in nature.
The second one is brand, where as we had mentioned earlier in the fall, it has become more constant, sort of a number, maybe linked to inflation of the country. The third and very big part would be the whole support teams, IT teams, marketing teams, management teams. Obviously, there is an increment which is given to blended. As he said, you can take it to be roughly half of the growth of the top line growth. That's where we are comfortable today. If things change, obviously we have a relook. We are very happy with roughly half the growth rate for indirect cost relative to the revenue growth rates.
Understood, this is very useful. The second question I had was that your contribution margin on new initiatives is 5.5% for the quarter. Just if you can give a bit of color, this 5.5%, whether, how much is coming from POSP or corporate, or who is heavy lifting. This 5.5% number.
It's a combination, you know, it's a combination of UAE, which is now a profitable business, and obviously that profit has increased because last year it was a loss-making business. Now for three quarters, it's been a profitable business. I think corporate has been at pretty much the similar number in terms of burn, and POSP has been reducing its burn but obviously increasing its scale also. It's a combination of all three that's coming through. As of now, POSP and corporate are still loss-making businesses. I think on an overall basis, if you look at all new initiatives put together, my hope is that next year, and that is what we, you know. Yeah.
I think the whole idea is that 2027, our new initiatives should be very close to zero is the whole thought process, and I don't see why it should be very different. Okay, understood. Basically, what you're trying to say is that at contribution level, POSP, corporate, and PSP are still loss-making, and a large part of that is driven by PB UAE. That's why at contribution level, it's a few things. It's a few things, right. POSP has reduced losses but increased scale, so it's grown 55%, but its losses are much lower than what it was last year. Whereas corporate has got less growth in scale and similar losses, while UAE has both grown and become profitable. I think all three of them are a bit of a moving situation, and from a profit and loss perspective, they're not very dissimilar now.
POSP used to overwhelm in terms of losses. Now it is not the case; now they are all in the same zone in terms of both profits and losses and stuck at that continuation level. We are positive now on the initiatives. This is also one area where you have competitive intensity in all three, whether it's Dubai, whether it's corporate business, or whether it's POSP. That competitive intensity keeps on also going up and down, and we have to react to that as well. Directionally, I think we have managed to become unit economics positive a few quarters back, I think two or three quarters back in the new initiatives. If tomorrow we start something like Pension Bazaar or PB Money or something, that will also go into that. We don't want to restrict the team that, okay, you have to break even only and then we'll invest.
If we see any right opportunity, we invest. These numbers overall are going to be meaningless. When we talk of INR 1,000 crore profit next year, whatever happens in new initiatives is not going to create a big delta either way. It doesn't matter. Already, if you look at it from a contribution perspective, new initiatives is less than 6%, 7%, maybe 7%, 7.5% of the total contribution. From a P&L perspective, it's 3%, 4% plus minus of the entire adjusted EBITDA or even of the profit. It's becoming meaningless in the sense of either as a contribution percentage or as a profit percentage compared to the core business, which is perhaps why you guys value the core business, that the core business has different mathematics as time progresses.
The reason I was asking this is that means by FY2030 or FY2029, whether this business will become adjusted EBITDA positive, entire new initiatives.
I said FY2027. Yeah, I said not FY2030. Next year it should be very close to adjusted EBITDA zero.
Understood. Perfect. Last two data keeping questions. One, can you quantify hybrid to the contribution of the core new business, and which I believe you said 25% or 30% is previous quarter, and in this health growth, 60% growth or 65% growth previous quarter, how much contribution came from long term plans? How much contribution came from long term plans?
The meaningful answer there is it hasn't changed dramatically from last year. There is no major year-on-year change. Look, I'll try to explain.
This question has been asked many times: is there a trick behind this 60%, 70% growth that's been going on for the last, I would say, 8 quarters, 10 quarters? The simple answer we've always given is there is no trick. If there was a trick, the trick should have caught up with us by now because you know, you can't play a trick over two, three years continuously. I hope I'm not speaking out of turn here, but I hope we will very, very positively surprise you in Q3 with both what comes out. All I'm saying is there's no trick here. It's not like premiums have grown or multi-year has grown or anything of that sort. We're just adding new customers. That's it, and that's very valuable to all our partners, you know, bringing in new customers. We need the partners' help.
The partners have also helped us a lot by giving us better products, creating better products, creating better underwriting, settling more claims. All of that is part of the growth, which is why customers are increasingly choosing to utilize health insurance and term insurance. Understood? Yes. Basically, when you told the narrow network contribution or product might pick up, that can add one more extra layer of growth to what you are delivering today. If it is the case, any number you have in your mind, I'll explain in a simple way. Sanket, I think from a distribution standpoint, we are by far and away, by far and away, like there's not even a comparison, the most focused and the most scaled up players in terms of protection, health insurance, and term insurance. You'd all agree with that, right?
You couldn't even name somebody else who would be nearly as focused. Now, what does that mean? When you are focused on something, you're thinking about problems ahead, you're trying to create solutions for them before they become problems for you. What are proofs of this? Getting into claims. If you look at our advertising for the last three years, a lot of it has been around claims, right? Of course, that is a differentiator. Today, we have a higher claim settlement rate while maintaining operating ratios for our customers. Narrow network is part of the same thing. The reason you are thinking about it is because you are very focused on this area, so you are creating solutions before time. The solution is very clear to anybody. It's obvious that narrow network should be able to reduce your cost because you have better control over the service.
You should be able to deploy better SOPs with a narrow network than with a wide network. It's a pretty logical thing. Whoever will do it, why are just we doing it? For example, let me say why isn't the bank doing this? While a bank is also a distributor of insurance or any other distributor of insurance, why are they not doing it? It's perhaps because it's not because they don't have the money. It is because maybe this is not as critical to their survival and to their mission as it is for us. For us, this is critical. This is the reason we come to office every day, to make sure that more and more customers have health insurance and life insurance. They have a great experience. I think it's just that I don't think there's any other word to it than just focus.
Understood. Lastly, that data keeping question, hybrid as a percentage of the total core. New business, which was
Sanket, it's about 25%. It's been in that range for a while.
Okay, perfect. That's it for me. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Sanket. We'll take the last question from Rahul Jain. Please unmute yourself.
Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Most of it has been answered, but just I'm trying to make an effort in a different way. Just on the consistent improvement on the CM for the new initiative business. What I understand is that the CM for POSP business was supposed to be max out at 1 to 2% or maybe 3%. Does that remain the case even now, or the bulk of the upside on the CM is coming from the other part of the new initiative, or there is more potential for CM to go higher even in the POSP part?
You guys all really want the answer, so I'll give you the answer. Only the POSP CM is 1%. It's exactly 1%, right? If we are at 5%, it's coming from other parts, the biggest contributor in that CM.
Again, you want the answer. 85 to 90% of the CM is actually coming from the Dubai business. That's the reality of it, right? Everything else on a CM is 0. It is the UAE business which is giving the CM. Actually, UAE should not be new initiatives. From a classification perspective, what we should actually do is UAE should be part of core because it is actually core business. There is no difference there. I think we should just separate out POSP and everything else, maybe corporate POSP, because these corporate business POSP have very different dynamics and our core business has very different dynamics. If you segregate that out, that way it just might start making a lot more sense. I really don't see why UAE's and new initiatives should actually be existing. Yeah, completely. That's it from my side. Thanks a lot.
Dynamics are exactly like our core business. As time progresses, get more and more profitable.
Thank you. Rahul. I still see some hands being raised. In the interest of time, I request you to please send your questions to investor.relations@pbfintech.in. We shall get back to you as soon as possible. Thank you for your time.
Thank you very much for your attention. It's quite late in the evening, so really appreciate you attending and, you know, so many questions. Thank you so much.
Thank you.